Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Bernardo Barros]

Dear all,

I contributed before, maybe I will join it again, didn't know the situation
was so bad.

Something I requested many years ago was the support for quarter-tone
tablatures notation, which seems to work but is actually buggy at the
moment, it generates wrong tablatures in strings with quarter-tones
alterations etc. Did it receive some attention recently?

Best wishes,
Bernardo


On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Federico Bruni  wrote:

> Il giorno gio 22 ott 2015 alle 23:09, Urs Liska  ha
> scritto:
>
>> As to sponsoring individual features there is a tradition (?) of
>> bounties. You can ask for a feature or report a bug that annoys you
>> personally on the bug-lilypond mailing list and say that you are willing
>> to spend X Dollars or Euro or whatever. You may find someone who chimes
>> in, sometimes other users chime in to increase the bounty. But I can't
>> say how successful these things have been in the past and what the
>> chances are to get "the" specific thing done one has in mind.
>>
>
> In 6 years I've been following LilyPond I've never seen a bounty having
> success. None of the issues marked with Bounty label is closed, which seems
> to confirm my feeling.
>
> We have currently 19 open issues marked as Bounty:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/search?q=labels%3A%22Bounty%22+AND+!status%3Aclosed+AND+!status%3AVerified+AND+!status%3ADuplicate
>
> Obviously, bounties are more likely to attract interested donators, who
> know what they are paying for and that it will be useful for them. I know
> that it is more complicated for a number of reasons.. but why not even 1
> bounty in 6 years (unless I missed something) worked out?
>
>
>> Now to David: I don't think your report should be interpreted like users
>> "have stopped being happy with" your work. I think it should be
>> interpreted as "a significant number of people who did pay something in
>> the past don't do that anymore. And others didn't fill the gap."
>>
>> People may stop donating money for any number of reasons. OK, not being
>> happy with your work is one possible reason but I'm sure it's not the
>> reason of a majority of these people. The issue is: the type of income
>> stream that you are after doesn't keep its level on its own. If you want
>> to keep (or even increase) it you *have* to do constant advertising. And
>> I think the last time we heard about the fact that you even *have* this
>> sponsoring scheme was in 2013. I know it's hard to ask for money, even
>> when you do that in exchange for an actual value. But without it won't
>> just work out on itself.
>>
>
> I agree, but I think that we can easily improve the situation. A few
> simple ideas:
>
> 1) DOWNLOAD PAGE
> What's the most viewed page in the website (excluding the home)? Probably
> the download page:
> http://lilypond.org/website/download.html
>
> Let's add there a big Note saying something like: "Our most active main
> developer David Kastrup is working full-time on LilyPond development and
> need your support to make a living. If you use and love LilyPond, please
> allow David to continue his precious work by contributing whatever amount
> of money you can afford. [link to Community>Sponsoring page]"
>
> 2) SPONSORING PAGE
> I can guess without looking at 'git log' that the sponsoring page was
> written by Graham :-)
> It does not encourage any donation, right? The feeling is very different
> from what we are reading in many replies in this thread. Maybe it's time to
> change it a little bit?
>
> 3) GITSTATS
> The gitstats linked in the sponsoring pages are a great idea but they are
> out-of-date (november 2012). Any chance to keep them up-to-date
> automatically?
> Also, I'd rather link to the Authors tab:
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/gitstats-3months/AUTHORS.html
>
> gitstats is just a python script. Who has access to the server may just
> set up a cron job to create the stats every X days:
> https://github.com/hoxu/gitstats/blob/master/doc/INSTALL
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>



-- 
Bernardo Barros

NYU, GSAS
PhD cand Music Composition
24 Waverly Place, Room 268
New York, NY 10003

http://bernardobarros.com
http://babelscores.com/bernardobarros
http://soundcloud.com/bernardobarros
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Re: partcombine and multi-measure rests

[David Kastrup]

David Wright  writes:

> Quoting Gilberto Agostinho (gilbertohasn...@gmail.com):
>> Simon Albrecht-2 wrote
>> > On 14.10.2015 20:41, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:
>> >> \version "2.17.95"
>> > 
>> > Just out of interest: what makes you still use that particular version?
>> 
>> I don't, I actually use 2.19.15. The thing is I have several little
>> templates that I use when creating functions and I ended up copying the
>> version of when that template was created.
>
> That reminds me. I too put \version in my sources and each of my .ily
> files ready for conversion at some time in the future. When a 2.18.2
> source is run on older (or, indeed, newer) versions, does LP behave
> any differently as a consequence of the \version read as the file is
> being processed? (ie, beyond mentioning version numbers in the text of
> any error messages generated.)

In LilyPond itself, \version is only used for the version check, nothing
else.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Bernardo Barros]

http://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/1741/

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Bernardo Barros 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I contributed before, maybe I will join it again, didn't know the
> situation was so bad.
>
> Something I requested many years ago was the support for quarter-tone
> tablatures notation, which seems to work but is actually buggy at the
> moment, it generates wrong tablatures in strings with quarter-tones
> alterations etc. Did it receive some attention recently?
>
> Best wishes,
> Bernardo
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Federico Bruni 
> wrote:
>
>> Il giorno gio 22 ott 2015 alle 23:09, Urs Liska  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> As to sponsoring individual features there is a tradition (?) of
>>> bounties. You can ask for a feature or report a bug that annoys you
>>> personally on the bug-lilypond mailing list and say that you are willing
>>> to spend X Dollars or Euro or whatever. You may find someone who chimes
>>> in, sometimes other users chime in to increase the bounty. But I can't
>>> say how successful these things have been in the past and what the
>>> chances are to get "the" specific thing done one has in mind.
>>>
>>
>> In 6 years I've been following LilyPond I've never seen a bounty having
>> success. None of the issues marked with Bounty label is closed, which seems
>> to confirm my feeling.
>>
>> We have currently 19 open issues marked as Bounty:
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/search?q=labels%3A%22Bounty%22+AND+!status%3Aclosed+AND+!status%3AVerified+AND+!status%3ADuplicate
>>
>> Obviously, bounties are more likely to attract interested donators, who
>> know what they are paying for and that it will be useful for them. I know
>> that it is more complicated for a number of reasons.. but why not even 1
>> bounty in 6 years (unless I missed something) worked out?
>>
>>
>>> Now to David: I don't think your report should be interpreted like users
>>> "have stopped being happy with" your work. I think it should be
>>> interpreted as "a significant number of people who did pay something in
>>> the past don't do that anymore. And others didn't fill the gap."
>>>
>>> People may stop donating money for any number of reasons. OK, not being
>>> happy with your work is one possible reason but I'm sure it's not the
>>> reason of a majority of these people. The issue is: the type of income
>>> stream that you are after doesn't keep its level on its own. If you want
>>> to keep (or even increase) it you *have* to do constant advertising. And
>>> I think the last time we heard about the fact that you even *have* this
>>> sponsoring scheme was in 2013. I know it's hard to ask for money, even
>>> when you do that in exchange for an actual value. But without it won't
>>> just work out on itself.
>>>
>>
>> I agree, but I think that we can easily improve the situation. A few
>> simple ideas:
>>
>> 1) DOWNLOAD PAGE
>> What's the most viewed page in the website (excluding the home)? Probably
>> the download page:
>> http://lilypond.org/website/download.html
>>
>> Let's add there a big Note saying something like: "Our most active main
>> developer David Kastrup is working full-time on LilyPond development and
>> need your support to make a living. If you use and love LilyPond, please
>> allow David to continue his precious work by contributing whatever amount
>> of money you can afford. [link to Community>Sponsoring page]"
>>
>> 2) SPONSORING PAGE
>> I can guess without looking at 'git log' that the sponsoring page was
>> written by Graham :-)
>> It does not encourage any donation, right? The feeling is very different
>> from what we are reading in many replies in this thread. Maybe it's time to
>> change it a little bit?
>>
>> 3) GITSTATS
>> The gitstats linked in the sponsoring pages are a great idea but they are
>> out-of-date (november 2012). Any chance to keep them up-to-date
>> automatically?
>> Also, I'd rather link to the Authors tab:
>> http://lilypond.org/~graham/gitstats-3months/AUTHORS.html
>>
>> gitstats is just a python script. Who has access to the server may just
>> set up a cron job to create the stats every X days:
>> https://github.com/hoxu/gitstats/blob/master/doc/INSTALL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bernardo Barros
>
> NYU, GSAS
> PhD cand Music Composition
> 24 Waverly Place, Room 268
> New York, NY 10003
>
> http://bernardobarros.com
> http://babelscores.com/bernardobarros
> http://soundcloud.com/bernardobarros
>
>


-- 
Bernardo Barros

NYU, GSAS
PhD cand Music Composition
24 Waverly Place, Room 268
New York, NY 10003

http://bernardobarros.com
http://babelscores.com/bernardobarros
http://soundcloud.com/bernardobarros
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Re: Updating library code

[Michael Gerdau]

[description of the problem of refactoring and code consistency in
lilpond libs - snipped ]

> So in essence what we need is a convert-ly-like tool for openLilyLib,
> either as an independent tool or by somehow hooking into convert-ly
> itself. Quite some time ago I opened an issue about this and would now
> like to get some opinions, ideas and experiences how *you* deal with the
> topic.
> 
> Please reply here or add to
> https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/issues/87.

In software development this is a well known problem and AFAIA there
does not exists a solution to this problem in total. However there are
quite a few guidelines to help reducing the issues that may arise.

Among them are:
- modularisation: whatever sequence of commands is used regularly in
   various files should be moved into a function/macro. That way any
   adjustment needs to be done just once and in one place only.
- external (from the perspective of a LP installation) functions that
   are likely to change should be encapsulated in a wrapper function. Again
   the benefit is that adjustments need to be done just once.
- one might wish for function prototypes and/or function signatures in
   lilypond such that the compiler/parser could better flag illegal use
   of functions and/or macros. At least for me the current error diagnostics
   do not always point me to the cause of the error. It sometimes takes
   me quite some time to understand what actually went wrong (but that
   may be just me - more experienced lilyponder might have a different
   mileage)

Kind regards,
Michael
-- 
 Michael Gerdau   email: m...@qata.de
 GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver

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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Frederico,

> In 6 years I've been following LilyPond I've never seen a bounty having 
> success.

I’ve personally sponsored ten or so that have had success!  =)  n.b. Some may 
have been more than six years ago, and many (most?) happened “off-list”.

However, I must admit that recently (e.g., in the past six years), it has been 
difficult to locate developers to tackle the specific fixes and/or feature 
requests (e.g., finishing up the GSoC lyric code) that I most want to sponsor… 
so there is clearly *something* not working optimally.

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Urs Liska]

Am 23.10.2015 um 17:47 schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
> Hi Frederico,
>
>> In 6 years I've been following LilyPond I've never seen a bounty having 
>> success.
> I’ve personally sponsored ten or so that have had success!  =)  n.b. Some may 
> have been more than six years ago, and many (most?) happened “off-list”.
>
> However, I must admit that recently (e.g., in the past six years), it has 
> been difficult to locate developers to tackle the specific fixes and/or 
> feature requests (e.g., finishing up the GSoC lyric code) that I most want to 
> sponsor… so there is clearly *something* not working optimally.

Well, this *something* seems easy to pin down: too few developers. So at
any given moment it is difficult to find someone who has the ability,
the interest, and spare time at the same moment.

Urs

>
> Cheers,
> Kieren.
> 
>
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
>
>
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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[N. Andrew Walsh]

If I can throw in a couple thoughts:

My experience with open-source projects has usually been that they are,
largely, labors of love. Almost none of them manage to run as commercial
enterprises unless they somehow managed to capture a new market segment at
some point (like Red Hat Linux trying the "software is free, support costs
money" model, which was relatively novel at the time). The rest, it seems,
that have managed to support their costs seem to have done so by running as
foundations: they exist as a nonprofit to promote whatever ethos their
software supports (in my case, my flavor of Linux has a foundation that
supports the web forum and pays some nominal fees to devs), and take in
donations.

It's a hassle getting the initial foundation set up, with no small amount
of paperwork. But it also makes it possible to apply for grant funding from
larger public-interest charities (I'm thinking here specifically of
research foundations that give out grants for specific research, but *only*
to other registered nonprofits), and then paying out for dev work becomes
more straightforward.

It's also possible to do what my foundation does, which is to register with
the Boost project. It's a partnership site that works with major web
retailers (like amazon.com, but also the major chain stores, and [here, at
least] the online ticket counter for the national railway). Once users have
the app installed in their browser (I know, I know), the partner vendors
will donate some single-digit percentage of their sales to the charity of
the users' choice.

It'd be a way to send a few € a month to Lilypond development without
having to spend anything extra, which -- while it won't support a dev
fulltime -- can certainly help.

Cheers,

A

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 5:48 PM, Urs Liska  wrote:

>
>
> Am 23.10.2015 um 17:47 schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
> > Hi Frederico,
> >
> >> In 6 years I've been following LilyPond I've never seen a bounty having
> success.
> > I’ve personally sponsored ten or so that have had success!  =)  n.b.
> Some may have been more than six years ago, and many (most?) happened
> “off-list”.
> >
> > However, I must admit that recently (e.g., in the past six years), it
> has been difficult to locate developers to tackle the specific fixes and/or
> feature requests (e.g., finishing up the GSoC lyric code) that I most want
> to sponsor… so there is clearly *something* not working optimally.
>
> Well, this *something* seems easy to pin down: too few developers. So at
> any given moment it is difficult to find someone who has the ability,
> the interest, and spare time at the same moment.
>
> Urs
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Kieren.
> > 
> >
> > Kieren MacMillan, composer
> > ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> > ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > lilypond-user@gnu.org
> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
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Updating library code

[Urs Liska]

>From an openLilyLib perspective I have a question for all of you who
maintain their personal LilyPond code libraries: How are you dealing
with keeping code working and consistent?

What I mean is:
Syntax changes in LilyPond can be handled (mostly) with convert-ly. But
what happens when
a) a LilyPond update changes the behaviour of a library function e.g. by
making it obsolete or by "shadowing" its name. When re-touching our
Fried songs repo I ran into numerous errors that seemed strange
initially. But in fact it was quite clear: a number of functions we
developed in that project (or integrated when developed by others on
this list) have later been incorporated into LilyPond. But while the
name of the function usually remained the same the implementation and
interface often changed during the process of integration. The result
was that our main code didn't work anymore because there *was* a
function available of the same name (now from LilyPond) but with a
different interface. In effect it was the funny situation that the
majority of compilation issues could be solved by simply *removing* code
from our library because it wasn't necessary anymore.

While this is basically a very good thing to notice it raises the
question of code consistency. Even when your functions don't go into
LilyPond later you may have or want to change them at any point,
presumably leaving your LilyPond files that depend on that library in a
non-compiling state. It can be quite frustrating having to update all
your existing scores afterwards, especially as that will fall back onto
you rather often - until you have eventually revisited all of your scores.

We have a similar problem with openLilyLib, and as this is explicitly
intended as a *usable* and public infrastructure this really is a
problem. As long as you provide a "snippet repository" it is fair to
assume that a user can tune a snippet when integrating in her own files,
but if it can be accessed through \include there should be a way to
handle the issue.

So in essence what we need is a convert-ly-like tool for openLilyLib,
either as an independent tool or by somehow hooking into convert-ly
itself. Quite some time ago I opened an issue about this and would now
like to get some opinions, ideas and experiences how *you* deal with the
topic.

Please reply here or add to
https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/issues/87.

Best
Urs

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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Robert Schmaus]

I can only subscribe to what Simon (and all other responders) wrote. 

Like Urs pointed out, that the absence of any reports about the financial 
situation on the developer side left me under the impression that it wasn't 
really problematic. I can understand that it's not pleasant sending out request 
for contributions - maybe someone else on the developer side who's familiar 
with the situation could do that instead on a - say - quarterly basis, so 
everyone's aware of that. After all, there are always new subscribers to the 
list, many of who were not yet aware of who actually carries the main burden of 
lilypond development. 

Apart from that I'd like to contribute as well - please send me the relevant 
information (I live in Germany).

Thanks for your fantastic work, Robert


> On 23 Oct 2015, at 03:10, Simon Albrecht  wrote:
> 
>> On 22.10.2015 19:21, David Kastrup wrote:
>> As you all know, my sole source of income are donations from happy
>> LilyPond users.  It would appear that LilyPond users have stopped being
>> happy with my work.
> 
> You must know that this is not the case. I should be much surprised if I were 
> the only one to appreciate the highly complicated work you do, of which the 
> results sometimes are hard to grasp in their immediate effect. But that does 
> not diminish their value for the project at all, and unless I’m much mistaken 
> nobody currently working on LilyPond could rival your understanding of the 
> internals and your ability to fix them. I do not think one can construe a 
> link between the work you do and the sudden (?) decrease of funding; indeed, 
> you continue to make quite impressive and important changes.
> I have taken so much profit from your work that it’s about time I gave 
> something back. It can’t be as much as I’d certainly like to give, but if I 
> don’t remain the only one to take part, it will make a difference. Please 
> tell me (privately, I assume) where to direct the support. (You probably know 
> that I live in Germany.)
> 
> Yours sincerely, Simon
> 
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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Federico Bruni]

Il giorno gio 22 ott 2015 alle 23:09, Urs Liska  ha 
scritto:

As to sponsoring individual features there is a tradition (?) of
bounties. You can ask for a feature or report a bug that annoys you
personally on the bug-lilypond mailing list and say that you are 
willing
to spend X Dollars or Euro or whatever. You may find someone who 
chimes

in, sometimes other users chime in to increase the bounty. But I can't
say how successful these things have been in the past and what the
chances are to get "the" specific thing done one has in mind.


In 6 years I've been following LilyPond I've never seen a bounty having 
success. None of the issues marked with Bounty label is closed, which 
seems to confirm my feeling.


We have currently 19 open issues marked as Bounty:
https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/search?q=labels%3A%22Bounty%22+AND+!status%3Aclosed+AND+!status%3AVerified+AND+!status%3ADuplicate

Obviously, bounties are more likely to attract interested donators, who 
know what they are paying for and that it will be useful for them. I 
know that it is more complicated for a number of reasons.. but why not 
even 1 bounty in 6 years (unless I missed something) worked out?




Now to David: I don't think your report should be interpreted like 
users

"have stopped being happy with" your work. I think it should be
interpreted as "a significant number of people who did pay something 
in

the past don't do that anymore. And others didn't fill the gap."

People may stop donating money for any number of reasons. OK, not 
being

happy with your work is one possible reason but I'm sure it's not the
reason of a majority of these people. The issue is: the type of income
stream that you are after doesn't keep its level on its own. If you 
want
to keep (or even increase) it you *have* to do constant advertising. 
And
I think the last time we heard about the fact that you even *have* 
this

sponsoring scheme was in 2013. I know it's hard to ask for money, even
when you do that in exchange for an actual value. But without it won't
just work out on itself.


I agree, but I think that we can easily improve the situation. A few 
simple ideas:


1) DOWNLOAD PAGE
What's the most viewed page in the website (excluding the home)? 
Probably the download page:

http://lilypond.org/website/download.html

Let's add there a big Note saying something like: "Our most active main 
developer David Kastrup is working full-time on LilyPond development 
and need your support to make a living. If you use and love LilyPond, 
please allow David to continue his precious work by contributing 
whatever amount of money you can afford. [link to Community>Sponsoring 
page]"


2) SPONSORING PAGE
I can guess without looking at 'git log' that the sponsoring page was 
written by Graham :-)
It does not encourage any donation, right? The feeling is very 
different from what we are reading in many replies in this thread. 
Maybe it's time to change it a little bit?


3) GITSTATS
The gitstats linked in the sponsoring pages are a great idea but they 
are out-of-date (november 2012). Any chance to keep them up-to-date 
automatically?

Also, I'd rather link to the Authors tab:
http://lilypond.org/~graham/gitstats-3months/AUTHORS.html

gitstats is just a python script. Who has access to the server may just 
set up a cron job to create the stats every X days:

https://github.com/hoxu/gitstats/blob/master/doc/INSTALL





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Was: "My finances for working on LilyPond" - Development / Cryptocurrency

[Philip Rhoades]

People,

I was also a bit shocked about David's post (makes me feel a bit guilty 
about our previous fights . .) but it might be worth mentioning this 
project:


  http://maidsafe.net

  http://maidsafe.org

Although the main intention is in developing "Internet 2" - entirely 
based on encrypted, decentralised, distributed, secure and anonymous 
lower levels of the network stack, as part of the development it is 
incorporating into the network its own cryptocurrency as the mechanism 
that encourages "farmers" to supply storage space and creative people to 
put their stuff up on the network.  My background is BioMedical Research 
and IT but I have been dabbling in SF short story writing and publishing 
for a while now (http://domain-sf.com) and I will be putting my stuff 
there when it gets launched (probably early next year).  The point is, 
if the new SAFE network turns into a big deal (I think it will) then 
there is the potential for people to earn "SAFEcoins" just for having 
stuff available there and being downloaded, looked at etc.  If it is 
successful, SAFEcoin will also be exchangeable for fiat currencies - 
eventually I think it will be a viable alternative to fiat currencies.


I have a few projects (mostly tech related) that I will be moving to 
SAFEnetwork but it is generating a lot of interest for creative types 
because it guarantees being paid according to popularity eg a site for 
Lilyponders to post their work and for downloading sheet music?  Anyway, 
it might be worth the main developers and others taken a loot at it . . 
I will mention it to Tim who is working on N99 for SAFE:


  
https://3d8bf14b7f2bb73ad4b697e2ddfdfb783c7dcbd9-www.googledrive.com/host/0B8X-yQWyMNcIU21GYjVTYVZuTjA/n99/index.html


(and complain to him about the background colour of that page while I am 
it . .).


Regards,

Phil.
--
Philip Rhoades

PO Box 896
Cowra  NSW  2794
Australia
E-mail:  p...@pricom.com.au

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Re: quarter-tone tablatures notation

[Bernardo Barros]

The first patch fixed this particular error, but I found futher errors and
eventually stoped using LilyPond for this score (if I remember correctly,
it has been 4 years...). I don't have this material here, since I gave up
LilyPond for this project. Probably one can find it again just doing a
scale on all strings with and without quarter-tones. I don't have the time
right now to do it, but I'll take a look soon.


On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Thomas Morley 
wrote:

> Hi Bernardo,
>
> I opened a new thread for this special problem.
> You wrote:
> "
> http://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/1741/
>
> Something I requested many years ago was the support for quarter-tone
> tablatures notation, which seems to work but is actually buggy at the
> moment, it generates wrong tablatures in strings with quarter-tones
> alterations etc. Did it receive some attention recently?
> "
>
> I had a look in said issue.
> There is a verified patch and all seems fine, apart from the
> limitation David mentioned.
>
> I recently made some code offering the possibility that TabStaff
> accepts quarter-tones.
>
> What is buggy? Is there an issue or bug-report? Or could you provide an
> example?
> At least something I could test against my code...
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm
>
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-- 
Bernardo Barros

NYU, GSAS
PhD cand Music Composition
24 Waverly Place, Room 268
New York, NY 10003

http://bernardobarros.com
http://babelscores.com/bernardobarros
http://soundcloud.com/bernardobarros
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Re: bar checks and independent time signatures

[David Wright]

Quoting Michael Collins (mxcoll...@gmail.com):
> A couple days ago, I described a problem with a piece for two staves in
> independent time signatures.  After consulting this post, I moved the timing
> translator and bar line engraver out of the score context and into the staff
> context.  While the midi compiles properly, the music in the pdf runs off the
> page.  

As far as the midi is concerned, all LP has to do is convert the first
list of notes into durations each of one second, and the second list
into decreasing durations from 4 seconds to 1/4 second. If those
durations are rounded to a resolution that midi can manage, well,
how would your ears know?

On the other hand, you want to display your lists of notes in musical
notation. That's easy for the first list as the notes have pitches and
durations that fit into the patterns we call music. The second list
also has conventional pitches, but the relative durations of the notes
are defined by you in a non-musical manner: the list has no musical
rhythm. Because musical note-durations are notated through their
rhythmical relationship, there is no defined method of notating your
list as defined.

The same would be true of speech. Yes, you can notate the stresses of
poetry, but you can't notate the durations of the actual syllables.
(Well, you *could* notate the syllables using the conventions of
music, but a literal interpretation of the score would not sound
anything like natural speech.)

> Lilypond says that the bar checks in the top voice are failing.  I suspect 
> that
> this is the root of the problem.  I've run versions of the code with each of
> the two voices commented out.  When the voices play separately, the pdf output
> stays on the page.  Something about combining the two voices is problematic.
> 
> I'm genuinely at a loss, since moving the timing translator to the staff
> context should make the voices completely independent.  Any advice?

Accepting the peculiarities of your second list, and the manner in
which you have coerced LP into notating it (why the mixture of
glyphs?), you can of course print the two parts on separate staves.
However, as soon as you bracket them together, you are indicating that
the staves all commence simultaneously. You can get away with not
spanning the non-initial barlines, but each brace carries a meaning.
As soon as six beats have passed, there is no further place at which
you can write a brace. So, no new lines.

To demonstrate this, take a pair of scissors and cut your score at
some convenient place so it doesn't run off the page. Now draw a brace
at the left end of the last part. You've now indicated that the first
note on each staff starts at the same time. Any offset will look like
a typesetting mistake, and will carry no timing information.

Cheers,
David.

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quarter-tone tablatures notation

[Thomas Morley]

Hi Bernardo,

I opened a new thread for this special problem.
You wrote:
"
http://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/1741/

Something I requested many years ago was the support for quarter-tone
tablatures notation, which seems to work but is actually buggy at the
moment, it generates wrong tablatures in strings with quarter-tones
alterations etc. Did it receive some attention recently?
"

I had a look in said issue.
There is a verified patch and all seems fine, apart from the
limitation David mentioned.

I recently made some code offering the possibility that TabStaff
accepts quarter-tones.

What is buggy? Is there an issue or bug-report? Or could you provide an example?
At least something I could test against my code...


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Updating library code

[Paul Morris]

> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
> 
> How are you dealing with keeping code working and consistent?

One simple thing I do, FWIW, is to add a short prefix to all my own functions.  
For example, instead of "do-something", I'd call it "cn-do-something".  That 
way it’s clear which functions are custom functions, and it effectively removes 
the chance of naming collisions.

-Paul
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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Wols Lists]

On 23/10/15 05:48, Jacques Menu wrote:
> So, David, please send me your IBAN privately, and I’ll fix this problem on 
> my side.

I know there's all this fuss about putting bank accounts on the web, but
here (in the UK) we have bank accounts that can't originate
transactions, and can't have an overdraft. I have a couple of such accounts.

If David has (or can open) such an account, I'm pretty sure it would be
safe to publish the IBAN on the website as a "this account receives
money only", and then anybody could pay a lot or a little as they see fit.

David could check and empty it every week or so.

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: Odd \partial

[David Kastrup]

Ralph Palmer  writes:

> Greetings -
>
> I have an issue with a \partial that I haven't encountered before.
>
> I'm running Ly 2.29.24 under Win 7 SP1 with Frescobaldi.
>
> The piece I'm trying to transcribe has a short measure at the beginning,
> before a repeat (please see the attachment). I tried using
> \partial 5/8 { fs8 g fs es fs } |
> but LilyPond didn't recognize it.

Uh, partial takes a duration, not a fraction.

\partial 8*5

should likely do the trick (a scaled eighth note).

-- 
David Kastrup

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Odd \partial

[Ralph Palmer]

Greetings -

I have an issue with a \partial that I haven't encountered before.

I'm running Ly 2.29.24 under Win 7 SP1 with Frescobaldi.

The piece I'm trying to transcribe has a short measure at the beginning,
before a repeat (please see the attachment). I tried using
\partial 5/8 { fs8 g fs es fs } |
but LilyPond didn't recognize it.

I've been able to get the correct result using

%%%

\version "2.19.24"
\include "english.ly"


#(set-global-staff-size 20.0)

laPartida =
\relative c'
{
  \clef treble
  \key b \minor
  \time 3/4

  \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'()

\set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 5/8)
{ fs8 g fs es fs } |
\set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 3/4)
  \repeat volta 2 {
d'4.^Dm fs,8 d' fs, |
 d'4.^Dm fs,8 d' fs, |
  }
}


\score {
  \laPartida
  \layout { indent = 0 }
}



but it seems clumsy. Is there a way to do this using
\partial
?

I appreciate your time and attention,

Ralph


-- 
Ralph Palmer
Brattleboro, VT
USA
palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com
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RE: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Javier Ruiz-Alma]

David,
I appreciate all you do to bring us a better LilyPond. As much as we all
enjoy new feature releases, I also encourage you to continue with the
important infrastructure work you often focus on, making the codebase more
robust, maintainable, understandable.
Glad to contribute!
Javier


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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Chris Yate]

> Well, this *something* seems easy to pin down: too few developers. So at
> any given moment it is difficult to find someone who has the ability,
> the interest, and spare time at the same moment.

... Could we expect to be paid for it?

I don't expect to be paid for open-source work. In fact, doing it for the
love of it is part of the reason, when I've contributed to things in the
past.  I'd love to contribute to Lilypond, but I suspect much of the work
needs to be in Lisp -- quite the learning curve (and unless I'm wrong, very
likely a blocker to getting more collaboration).

I was really quite shocked to read of David's situation and very surprised
that someone thinks they can reasonably make a living off developing an
open source tool such as this. I must of course say that's not without
complete respect for his past and continuing work on the project.

I use Lilypond because it's free, like free speech. This is open source
software! If I were using Lilypond commercially this would be a different
situation; but if I was writing music commercially I would probably, either
by force of collaboration with publishers or by choice, have already
purchased a popular commercial software package beginning with S.

However  whilst I felt a bit guilt-tripped by the original post, I have
easily had enough use out of it to donate some cash to someone in order to
support Lilypond.

I suggest David, or one of the other project owners set up a Paypal account
that we can easily fire money off to from anywhere in the world,
anonymously.

Chris
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Feature Requests (was: Re: My finances for working on LilyPond)

[Simon Albrecht]

On 23.10.2015 20:31, Bernardo Barros wrote:

Something I requested many years ago was the support for quarter-tone
tablatures notation, which seems to work but is actually buggy at the
moment, it generates wrong tablatures in strings with quarter-tones
alterations etc. Did it receive some attention recently?


Obviously not, and for multiple reasons:
First, it seems to be a very special thing, and it may even be that 
you’re the only one to suffer from this limitation/bugs.
Second, we do have too few developers. Indeed, David Kastrup is 
currently doing the majority of the work which is done on LilyPond (as 
you can guess from the figures he sent), many other core developers 
having (largely or wholly) ceased to work on LilyPond.
Third, feature requests aren’t quite as crucial in the motivation of a 
developer to take up a certain task. As has been said, even bounties 
lately tend to have little effect, since the time resources, 
capabilities, and personal interest of the dev himself(*) play a more 
important part.
So unfortunately there’s nothing for it, except exercising patience, 
doing it yourself or finding someone to do it…


Yours, Simon

(*) very few women in the ’Pond…

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Re: Feature Requests

[Simon Albrecht]

On 24.10.2015 00:26, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 23.10.2015 20:31, Bernardo Barros wrote:

Something I requested many years ago was the support for quarter-tone
tablatures notation, which seems to work but is actually buggy at the
moment, it generates wrong tablatures in strings with quarter-tones
alterations etc. Did it receive some attention recently?


Obviously not, and for multiple reasons: 


[…]



So unfortunately there’s nothing for it, except exercising patience, 
doing it yourself or finding someone to do it…


I see this is partly obsolete in this case through Harm’s post :-)
To quote David K.: ‘If you lads don’t report bugs, they’ll never get 
fixed’ (by the way: after saying this, he took the problem I had just 
accepted as a limitation and immediately fixed it – kudos!)


Yours, Simon

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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Ivan Kuznetsov]

Maybe the Linux Foundation can help us set up a Lilypond foundation?

Are there any lawyers on this list that can donate their time?

Or perhaps Lilypond software can become sponsored by the Linux Foundation?


N. Andrew Walsh  wrote:
>
> ... a foundation ...
>
> It's a hassle getting the initial foundation set up, with no small amount of
> paperwork. But it also makes it possible to apply for grant funding from
> larger public-interest charities (I'm thinking here specifically of research
> foundations that give out grants for specific research, but *only* to other
> registered nonprofits), and then paying out for dev work becomes more
> straightforward.
>
> It's also possible to do what my foundation does, which is to register with
> the Boost project. ...

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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Kevin Tough]

On Fri, 2015-10-23 at 03:10 +0200, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> On 22.10.2015 19:21, David Kastrup wrote:
> > As you all know, my sole source of income are donations from happy
> > LilyPond users.  It would appear that LilyPond users have stopped
> > being
> > happy with my work.
> 
> You must know that this is not the case. I should be much surprised
> if I 
> were the only one to appreciate the highly complicated work you do,
> of 
> which the results sometimes are hard to grasp in their immediate
> effect. 
> But that does not diminish their value for the project at all, and 
> unless I’m much mistaken nobody currently working on LilyPond could 
> rival your understanding of the internals and your ability to fix
> them. 
> I do not think one can construe a link between the work you do and
> the 
> sudden (?) decrease of funding; indeed, you continue to make quite 
> impressive and important changes.
> I have taken so much profit from your work that it’s about time I
> gave 
> something back. It can’t be as much as I’d certainly like to give,
> but 
> if I don’t remain the only one to take part, it will make a
> difference. 
> Please tell me (privately, I assume) where to direct the support.
> (You 
> probably know that I live in Germany.)
> 
> Yours sincerely, Simon
> 
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Where can we donate too?
Namaste,
Kevin

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