Re: Time signature ID and implementation

[Brett Duncan]

It could well be a 2, looking at this: 
https://artscimedia.case.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/135/2020/04/20164113/NotationManual.pdf.


On 8/10/20 5:24 pm, Aaron Hill wrote:

On 2020-10-07 11:07 pm, Andrew Bernard wrote:

I dont think it's a 2. Looks more like some kind of symbol. I am not a
scholar of that period.


Not a scholar either, but a quick web search turned up this [1].

[1]: 
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Dictionary_of_Music_and_Musicians/Proportion


C2 seems to be "Lesser Mode Imperfect, with Imperfect Time".



I would suggest using "timesig.C44" as it stylistically matches the 
number two from Emmentaler.  Otherwise, use a two from some other font 
to match mensural C.


To match the alignment, you need to use \vcenter.  Consider:


\override Score.TimeSignature.stencil =
#(lambda (grob)
  (grob-interpret-markup grob #{
    \markup {
  \musicglyph "timesig.C44"
  \vcenter \number 2
    } #}))



-- Aaron Hill

Re: hide entire tuplet entity

[Brett Duncan]

One option would be to scale the durations instead of using tuplets,

e.g. you could change

    \hideNotes b2. b4\sustainOn b2 \tuplet 3/2{ b8 b4\sustainOff} 
b4\sustainOn \tuplet 3/2{ b8 b8\sustainOff b8 }


to

   \hideNotes b2. b4\sustainOn b2  b8*2/3 b4*2/3\sustainOff 
b4\sustainOn b4*2/3\sustainOff b8*2/3



Brett


On 27/8/18 9:04 am, Ryan Michael wrote:
Hello. I am currently working on a piano piece and I want to have 
sustain spans below the bass clef while the left hand is resting for 
whole measures. I want to the sustain to line up with tuplets on the 
right hand in the treble clef. My current strategy is to fake the same 
phrase in the bass clef but it leaves me with tuplet artifacts when I 
am hiding the notes in the bass clef à la :



%
%% bass section mirroring right hand for sustain engraving purposes only
\version "2.18.2"
{
<<
\new Voice { \hideNotes b4 b8 b8\sustainOn b4 b8. b16\sustainOff}
\new Voice { r1}
>>
<<
\new Voice { \hideNotes b2. b4\sustainOn b2  \tuplet 3/2{ b8 
b4\sustainOff} b4\sustainOn \tuplet 3/2{ b8 b8\sustainOff b8 } b2. }

\new Voice { r1 r1 r1}
>>
}
%

--
ॐ नमः शिवाय


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Re: Compressed rests not engraving as expected

[Brett Duncan]

I think you want

\override MultiMeasureRest #'expand-limit = #7  (or whatever value you 
decide - the default is 10).


Brett

On 2/4/19 8:09 am, Guy Stalnaker wrote:

\version "2.19"
\language "english"
\score {
  \new Staff {
  \clef bass
  \compressFullBarRests
  \key bf \major
  \time 4/4
  a2 a4.. a16 |
  a2.\> r4\! \bar "||" \mark \default \time 3/4
  R2.*8 \bar "||" \mark \default \time 4/4
  R1*15 \bar "||" \mark \default \time 3/4 \key f \major
  a2 a4 |

  }
  \layout { }
}


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Re: How can I write simultaneous music in \chordmode?

[Brett Duncan]

On 7/01/15 1:14 PM, Jim Long wrote:

This works great.  But I often have the same problem in chordmode
music, "the same problem" meaning that I need to use tagged
alternative bits of enharmonic music where the tagged
alternatives are simultaneous so that they don't artificially
lengthen the number of beats/bars of music.  Unfortunately,
simultaneous music << >> doesn't work in \chordmode:

foo = \new Staff \relative c' {
   <<
 \tag #'concert { b1 }
 \tag #'trumpet { ces1 }
   >>
}

fooChords = \new ChordNames \chordmode {
   <<
 \tag #'concert { b1 }
 \tag #'trumpet { ces1 }
   >>
}

\score {
   \transpose c d
 \keepWithTag #'trumpet
   <<
 \fooChords
 \foo
   >>
}

Lily complains with:

x.ly:9:3: error: syntax error, unexpected $undefined



Jim, I just tried the above in Lilypond 2.19.15, and it worked fine - 
maybe the simplest solution is an upgrade!


Brett

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Re: sus7 chords in \chordmode

[Brett Duncan]

On 26/01/15 1:16 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

On Jan 25, 2015, at 7:44 PM, Thomas Morley  wrote:

2015-01-26 2:18 GMT+01:00 Tim McNamara :

I have repeatedly run into difficulties getting Lilypond to properly render sus7 
chord names in \chordmode.  It comes up with silly things like "G7sus4 3” and 
the like.  What is the correct syntax to get a simple “Gsus7” to print?  I’ve tried 
every combination I can think of.

(By the way, I am also using the pop-chords exception list as I don’t like the 
Ignatzek standard that is the default in Lilypond).

Because different people understand different things under the same
chord-symbol, please give us a minimal example. Also I'm not aware of
the 'pop-chords exception list’.

pop-chords.ly is available in the snippet repository to provide more readable 
chord names than are provided by the default Ignatzek chord names.  I’ve never 
understood how those got to be the default because they are not very 
attractive.  I can make no pretense of understanding the Scheme code used in 
pop-chords.ly as my knowledge of coding is virtually nil; the definitions of 
the chords themselves within that file are pretty straightforward.


Which notes does a Gsus7 contain, the following ones?

\notemode {  }

Yes, G C D F   The 3rd is replaced with the 4th and the flat 7th is added.  
That is the standard definition of a sus7 chord (there are sus2 chords as well, 
but those are usually specified as sus2 whereas sus chords are understood to 
replace the 3rd with the 4th).

g1:4.7 and g1.7.4 both give a result of "G7 sus4 3” which is suboptimal.

g1:sus results in “G5” which makes no sense.

g1:4 results in "G4 sus4 3” which again is suboptimal.

With a bit more experimenting, I find that g1:7sus4 results in “G7sus4” which 
is a big improvement but I’d like to trim that down to “sus7” if possible.

I am puzzled by this- I cannot imagine that I am the first person attempting to 
get Lilypond to print a sus7 chord in \chordmode.  There must be a correct 
syntax but I can’t figure it out.  There is a reason I am not a coder!  :-P

Thanks!



g1:7sus4 would create the chord you want, but the display is another 
matter. You can add to pop-chords.ly (which I couldn't find in the LSR, 
for some reason) a line like


-\markup { \super "sus7" }

to get the chord displayed as you want.

HTH,

Brett


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Re: sus7 chords in \chordmode

[Brett Duncan]

On 27/01/15 6:15 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:


On Jan 26, 2015, at 1:32 AM, Johan Vromans > wrote:


On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 19:18:52 -0600
Tim McNamara mailto:tim...@bitstream.net>> wrote:


I have repeatedly run into difficulties getting Lilypond to properly
render sus7 chord names in \chordmode.  It comes up with silly things
like "G7sus4 3” and the like.  What is the correct syntax to get a 
simple

“Gsus7” to print?


To not answer your question: I would not use Gsus7 since it is ambiguous.
Gsus4 (or Gsus) has a suspended 4th, Gsus2 has a suspended 2nd, so Gsus7
makes you think that the 7th is suspended -- which is not the case.

G7sus (or G7sus4) is the unambiguous way to express this chord.

See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_chord .
Chapter 8 of "Standardized Chord Symbol Notation" by Carl Brandt & 
Clinton

Roemer.


I have the Roemer-Brandt book and will double check that, thanks for 
pointing it out.  I have been modifying the pop-chords.ly 
 file for my own use to use the Roemer-Brandt 
terminology and will make that available once I have completed it.  My 
recollection- without checking, of course- was that R-B used “sus” for 
plain suspended 4th chords and “sus7” for suspended 4th dominant 
chords.  My memory may well be faulty on this (again, as it has been 
so often as my wife reminds me).  If they use “7sus” or “7sus4” I will 
go with that.


Tim


You're not mistaken - I have also seen "sus" and "sus7" used in the same 
way on rock and R&B charts. It's not a notation I would use myself, and 
I agree with Johan that G7sus4 is the unambiguous way to express the 
chord. But as has been pointed out before, there is no agreed standard 
for chord notation.


It's worth noting that G7sus can be interpreted differently in a jazz 
context - the wikipedia article Johan linked to mentions this, though 
the analysis is not entirely accurate IMO.


With regard to Roemer & Brandt, I think it's an interesting reference 
and a useful discussion starter, but it seems to me to be somewhat at 
odds with contemporary practice.


Brett
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Re: sus7 chords in \chordmode

[Brett Duncan]

On 27/01/15 11:48 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
The main problem for me with “x7sus4” as a chord name is its length; 
when there are four chord names in a bar, every character counts in 
terms of legibility.  Things can get crowded fast.  (This came up in 
preparing a chart for the Vince Guaraldi song “Cast Your Fate To The 
Wind” in which all the chords in the soloing section are suspended 
dominants.  Lots and lots of them, actually sounds pretty terrible on 
guitar; works somewhat better on piano which was Guaraldi’s 
instrument, but IMHO seriously overdone on this song).
Ah, this puts a slightly different spin on things. In a jazz piece like 
this, the idea of suspension is often interpreted a little differently - 
as Mark Levine explains it in the Jazz Piano Book, the notation "x7sus" 
refers to playing a major triad one tone lower than the root over the 
given root, e.g. G7sus would be an F triad over a G bass. The resulting 
chord contains the 7th, 4th and 9th. (Whether the 5th and 3rd are 
included is determined by the performer.)


So in this particular context, x7sus better reflects the composer's 
intentions than x7sus4.


Brett
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Re: Problem with r2. in two voices

[Brett Duncan]

On 8/02/15 12:46 PM, Cynthia Karl wrote:

I don’t understand two things about the following snippet:

\version "2.19.15"
Aa = \relative c'' {\oneVoice r2. }
Ab = \relative c'' {\oneVoice r2. }
\score {
  \new Staff  <<
  \time 3/4
  \new Voice \Aa
  \new Voice \Ab
  >>
  \layout {}
}First, why does the r2. rest have a two augmentation dots?  Is there 
any way to fix that?


which produces:




Second, why does that snippet throw the following two warnings:



warning: cannot resolve rest collision: rest direction not set
\oneVoice
r2.
warning: cannot resolve rest collision: rest direction not set
\oneVoice
r2.
I see some information in the Notation Manual about Multimeasure Rest 
direction, but that’s not involved here.  There is, as best as I can 
determine, anything about simple rest collision/direction in any of 
the v2.19.15 documentation set. Furthermore, the lack of resolution of 
rest collision doesn’t seem to lead to any problems.


The warnings explain the visual output - you are trying to put two 
dotted rests in the same place at the same time. LP has managed to 
separate the augmentation dots, but not the rests themselves.


But what is the aim of this snippet? Why do you have \oneVoice in your 
definitions for Aa and Ab?


Using \voiceOne and \voiceTwo separates the rests:

\version "2.19.15"
Aa = \relative c'' {\voiceOne r2. }
Ab = \relative c'' {\voiceTwo r2. }
\score {
  \new Staff  <<
  \time 3/4
  \new Voice \Aa
  \new Voice \Ab
  >>
  \layout {}


Is this what you were after?

Brett
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Re: OT: Beauty of programming languages

[Brett Duncan]

I'm a 48 year old school teacher (Mathematics and Computing).

I'm also the pianist in a jazz ensemble, which is what keeps me using 
Lilypond - re-scoring pieces for which we have mainly hand-written 
scores (some of them atrociously scribbled down).


I used to mainly use jEdit/LilyPondTool, but now I'm using Frescobaldi.

I've tried converting the Music teachers at my school to Lilypond, but 
sadly they are welded to Sibelius.


Brett

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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 17/09/15 7:56 PM, BB wrote:


A bug?



My reading of the OP is that Kaj is expecting LP's chordmode to be 
equivalent to the chord notations that he is used to seeing, which it is 
not.


@Kaj, Lilypond's format for /inputting/ chords is described at
 http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/chord-mode/
and I would suggest reading through this carefully to get a clearer 
understanding of the results you are seeing, particularly where 
Lilypond's format differs from the conventions that you are used to.


Brett
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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 17/09/15 9:40 PM, Simon Albrecht wrote:

On 17.09.2015 13:30, lilyp...@andis59.se wrote:

On 2015-09-17 13:14, Brett Duncan wrote:


@Kaj, Lilypond's format for /inputting/ chords is described at
�http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/chord-mode/
and I would suggest reading through this carefully to get a clearer 
understanding of the results you are seeing, particularly where 
Lilypond's format differs from the conventions that you are used to.



The link doesn't work.


Remove the terminal / and it works.
Yours, Simon


Sorry about that, I thought I did a straight cut-and-paste from the 
browser's address bar, so I'm not sure where the extra / came from.
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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 19/09/15 8:49 AM, Kaj Persson wrote:
As you wrote Csus ought to mean that the first third is removed, and 
nothing else. Among professional musicians, which I am not, but I have 
friends who are, this is not the whole truth, there exists a de facto 
standard which does not exactly coincide with the pure logical.
Not exactly - there are several conventions used by musicians, with a 
wide range of similarities and differences, but there is no one 
standard, de facto or otherwise.


Csus is one example, C5 another. So when I work with these people i 
will use their methods and system, not trying to introduce something 
else (more "clever"). Therefore it would be fine if one could adapt LP 
to the current situation.
Well, in this instance that might seem reasonable, where we are only 
talking about simple chords, but where the chords are more complex or 
follow some other convention, adapting LP might prove a lot more 
difficult. For example, a lot of jazz charts follow a widely used 
convention where minor chords are denoted with a minus sign and 
augmented chords are denoted with a plus sign, i.e.  F-7, G+. But LP 
uses these symbols in \chordmode for alterations.


But this all just points to the fact that there is a distinction between 
how chords are entered and how they are displayed. And given that the 
same chord can be displayed several different ways, that distinction 
cannot really be avoided. For my own purposes, the default chord names 
generated by LP are far from ideal, so like many I have a separate file 
of chord exceptions that I include when I need it. So long as the input 
method allows me to create the chords I need in a reasonably way and I 
can get the output to appear as I need it to, there is no need to make 
the input take the same form as the output.


Brett

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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 19/09/15 7:52 PM, Blöchl Bernhard wrote:

A bit OT:

For anybody having doubts if sus chords are of any use, I found a nice 
example in jazz. In Herbie Hancock’s jazz piece Maiden Voyage one can 
recognize examples of sus chords covering D7sus, F7sus, Eb7sus, and 
F#7sus (C#-13). Lilipond unhappily omits the sus in this combinations.


Just to be clear, in Hancock's piece and other jazz standards, D7sus is 
not simply a 7th chord with the third omitted. As Mark Levine explained 
in the "The Jazz Piano Book" (Sher Music Co. 1989), for D7sus (or simply 
"Dsus" as it appears in some arrangements) Herbie played a C major triad 
(with the G doubled) over the root and fifth on the left hand. The 
effect of this was that the right hand was playing the 7th, 9th and 11th 
(or if you prefer, 7th, 2nd and 4th). Hence Levine's description of a 
sus chord: the " major triad in the right hand [is] a whole step down 
from the root".


Brett


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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 20/09/15 11:30 AM, Flaming Hakama by Elaine wrote:


> Just to be clear, in Hancock's piece and other jazz standards, D7sus is
> not simply a 7th chord with the third omitted. As Mark Levine explained
> in the "The Jazz Piano Book" (Sher Music Co. 1989), for D7sus (or simply
> "Dsus" as it appears in some arrangements) Herbie played a C major triad
> (with the G doubled) over the root and fifth on the left hand. The
> effect of this was that the right hand was playing the 7th, 9th and 11th
> (or if you prefer, 7th, 2nd and 4th). Hence Levine's description of a
> sus chord: the " major triad in the right hand [is] a whole step down
> from the root".

> Brett

Yes, but it is worth pointing out that that is a "voicing" of D7sus.
It is not the "definition" of D7sus.
Well, in his explanation of sus chords, Levine indicates that that he 
does not interpret "sus" to be exactly synonymous with "sus4". At one 
point, he wrote "A persistent myth about sus chords is that 'the fouth 
takes the place of the third.' Jazz pianists, however, often voice the 
third with a sus chord" (The Jazz Piano Book, p.24).


My point was that it would be incorrect in a jazz context to rigidly 
interpret D7sus as simply a D7 chord with the third omitted or with the 
4th in place of the third.
For comparison, I'd enjoy hearing how Mr. Levine suggests to voice a C 
major chord.

(If I recall correctly, it doesn't have C or G in it.)
The short answer is, he doesn't. But if we are discussing definitions 
rather than voicings, is this relevant?



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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 21/09/15 7:48 AM, Flaming Hakama by Elaine wrote:

Modifying the input syntax such that c:5 means  seems ill-advised.


I was thinking much the same, until I read something that David Kastrup 
wrote:

I think it is not an outlandish expectation, once you see how a:maj and
a:dim and a:min work, to have c:sus turn out a recognizable suspended
chord rather than a power chord (which is anything but a suspended
chord).  It's not hard to learn c:sus4 for sure.  But anything that
works according to naive expectations without causing other problems
leaves more time to learn more important things.


Given that sus and power chords are fairly commonly used, removing a 
potential stumbling block for the 'naive' user does not seem unreasonable.


This does raise the question of other "naive" constructions. I have seen 
on some contemporary music charts notations like C2 and C4, which 
apparently meant Cadd2 and Cadd4 respectively (except in one case, where 
Cadd4 did not sound right, and only after hearing a recording did it 
become clear that the chord was a Csus4).


Currently, LP's \chordmode interprets c:2 to be the chord , and 
outputs a chord name of Csus2. It interprets c:4 as  and outputs 
a chord name of C4 sus4 3 (!)


But to what extent should the the "naive" user be catered for?

Brett

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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 21/09/15 7:48 AM, Flaming Hakama by Elaine wrote:

> Well, in his explanation of sus chords, Levine indicates that that
> he does not interpret "sus" to be exactly synonymous with "sus4". At
> one point, he wrote "A persistent myth about sus chords is that 'the
> fouth takes the place of the third.' Jazz pianists, however, often
> voice the third with a sus chord" (The Jazz Piano Book, p.24).

However, if you look at the Real Book for Hancock's charts,
they use the notation like D7sus4 for all those chords.

(The last time I participated in such a discussion on this list,
I was also convinced that there were lots of pure Dsus or Dsus7 or D7sus
examples out there.  But what I found after looking through a
dozen real books is that almost everyone uses D7sus4, in all
cases.  There may be a conceptual difference such as Levine is
arguing, but I would contend that it is not reflected in actual practice
in terms of chord symbol notation.)


I have a good many charts at hand, mostly arrangements for my jazz 
ensemble from a wide range of publishers. There is no consistency in how 
chords are written in these charts, between publishers or even in 
different pieces from the same publisher. I can find plenty of examples 
of chords like G9sus, C13sus, simply Dsus, and so on.


I've also seen four different published arrangements for Maiden Voyage, 
with four different notations for the same suspended chord (e.g. D7sus4, 
D7sus, Dsus, Am7/D).


So my conclusions are a little different.

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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Brett Duncan]

On 21/09/15 4:44 PM, David Kastrup wrote:


It's really a case of diminuishing returns.  The change for x:5 is
definitely affecting the logic of LilyPond, but arguably that can of
worms has been opened with x:13 already.  x:5 is more important, but
it's also a lot more likely to be used as basic building block, like in
x:5.8.  About x:5, I definitely feel ambiguous.  In contrast, x:sus does
not have all that much logic hinging on it: it's previous behavior is
really "cute" in a programmer's sense of the word more than anything
else.  Other modifiers also introduce "personalized" behavior (cf
c:dim7) and people are unlikely to have used it much, exactly because
x:sus is musically not anything suggesting a powerchord.

Maybe x:1.5 is tolerable enough.  At any rate, the proposed x:5 is quite
analogous to the existing x:13.  Your proposals for c:4 and c:2 would
require opening yet another scheme while the chords already have a
musically sound name x:sus4 (now also x:sus) and x:sus2.  So the
threshold for x:2 and x:4 seems yet higher than that for x:5.


To be clear, I'm not proposing anything, simply pointing out that 
\chordmode produces some other less-than-obvious results that a "naive" 
user might stumble upon. How they should be handled, I'm not exactly 
sure. I'm tempted to suggest that they should return an error, and the 
user has to clearly specify whether they want an add4 or a sus4. But 
that's just a passing thought.


Brett

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Re: RUMOR Midi utility & Frescobaldi - Menu Error?

[Brett Duncan]

On 7/01/13 6:11 PM, SoundsFromSound wrote:

Thank you so much for the reply.  I have Ubuntu 12.10 installed, very few
apps other than the usual: Synaptic, Inkscape, LilyPond/Frescobaldi, etc.

All I did was install Rumor and poof - these appeared, no other items I can
think of that could be the cause.  Should I install-reinstall Rumor?  I
don't think Ubuntu is corrupt, but perhaps the Rumor install was?

I don't even see Rumor anywhere in Frescobaldi - no window/panel, nothing.

Hmm -

Thoughts?


I'm seeing the same problem. I set up Ubuntu 12.10 today as a virtual 
machine on my MacBook (I was running into problems trying to set up 
Frescobaldi on MacOSX) and installed Frescobaldi using the Ubuntu 
Software Centre.


It appears that each time I select something on /any/ menu, a copy of 
the Insert menu is appended to the end of itself.


I do not have Rumor installed.

Regards,
Brett


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Re: Error #20

[Brett Duncan]

On 19/04/11 2:08 AM, Michael Dykes wrote:

Hullo Nick. Now, I get the following error: java.io IOException:error=20, not a
directory. Any ideas? Thanks for your time and patience, since I am new to this
program. I really appreciated it.


The error suggests that there is still something wrong with your path. 
It should end with the *directory* that contains the lilypond binary. It 
should not end with the name of any actual file.


HTH

Brett

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Re: question on a bach's canon: mordent & repeat

[Brett Duncan]

On 15/06/11 6:28 PM, Rutger Hofman wrote:

On 06/15/2011 04:41 AM, Marc Mouries wrote:

I don't mean the sign on the last bar of each staff but the sign in the
final bar of the music, right after "g8 a8 b4" that looks like a 
mordant.


I'd say it is just a rest (r4). The last note has something that looks 
like an erased error on the lowest staff line.


Rutger

2011/6/14, Marc Mouries >:

> Let me know if this is off-topic but i thought someone on the
list might
> know the answers.
> I am transcribing a Canon from Bach and would like your input.
>
> *1) The sign of the last measure.*
> The manuscript here:
http://www.greatjsbach.net/mscript_img/bwv1073.jpg and
> the score on IMSLP show at the end what looks like a mordent but
is not
> attached to a note. Would you have any idea about what it means?


If it *is* meant to be an ornament (and I think it probably is), a 
reasonable interpretation is that it should be played when you repeat 
the canon, leading back onto the first note.


my $0.02

Brett

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Re: NR typo: Minor-major seventh chord

[Brett Duncan]

Andrew Tucker wrote:
m7.7+ does provide the desired results, though I believe it's because 
lilypond uses only the last alteration of a particular note (ie. 7.9+.9- 
will end up 7/b9 and lose the sharp nine). This behavior might change 
(?), if I remember the tenor of that discussion, so we probably 
shouldn't rely on it forever..


  m.7+ seems more logical to me, but resulted in " error: syntax error, 
unexpected '.' " for me. Guess we can't alter a minor triad.


Just put m7+ without the '.'

Brett


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Re: bar line

[Brett Duncan]

Hugh Myers wrote:

I'm looking for a symmetrical version of \bar "|:" which roughly
speaking should produce colon, thin line, thick line, thin line,
colon. Is there a way?

--hsm


Take a look at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/Bars#Bar-lines

Brett


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Re: bar line

[Brett Duncan]

Hugh Myers wrote:

Brett,

Much thanks, missed that combination. Now how do I get that to spit
out at the start of a second \alternative?

code:

\repeat volta 2 {
 \firstPoly
}
\alternative {
  { \firstPolyRepeat }
  { \secondMono }
}

which doesn't seem to produce the correct bars, one at end of first
alternative and one at end of second? The first bar is just ':|' and
it is where I would expect the one I asked about. There is no bar at
end of second alternative, where I would expect a ':|' as being a sign
I'm correctly handling the repeat.


I think your understanding of the code you've shown above may be 
somewhat amiss. The music in \secondMono is not repeated, so of course 
it will not have any repeat indications around it.


Have a look at

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/notation/Long-repeats#Normal-repeats

Brett


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Re: bar line

[Brett Duncan]

Hugh Myers wrote:

Brett,

Thanks for the hint. The URL is where I got the notion for what I
wrote in the first place. In the source, firstPoly repeats, once with
firstPolyRepeat as an ending and once with secondMono as an ending.
That is what I want, but as you say not what I asked for. None of the
examples I've seen thus far(hardly exhaustive) match what I need, so
what I wrote was a guess based on what I saw. More hints welcome at
this point ;)
  


Well, it's hard to know exactly what to suggest since I'm not sure what 
you are after. The snippets and the part about Manual reports on that 
particular webpage don't help?


Can you can describe in more detail what you want to achieve?

Something like this?





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Re: bar line

[Brett Duncan]

Hugh Myers wrote:

Here is the 'close--- but not quite ready for cigar time' code that
I've cobbled together:

\version "2.13.7"
%
% malaguena.ly -- q&d testbed for mixed notation score and tab.
%
\header {
  title = "Malaguena"
  subtitle = "none"
  composer = "Music by Unknown"
}

eMinor = < e   b  gis  e b e, >
firstMono = { \eMinor \eMinor \eMinor }
firstPoly = {
  << { b c d } \\ { < gis, d e, >2. } >>
  << { d'4 c b } \\ { e,,2. } >>
  << { c''4 a b} \\ { a,2. } >>
  << { \acciaccatura d'8 c4 b a } \\ { a,2. } >>
  << { b'4 a c } \\ { g,2. } >>
  << { a'4 g f } \\ { f,2. } >>
}

firstPolyRepeat = {
  << { r4 \times 2/3 {gis'8 b e } e,4 \times 2/3 {gis8 b e} e,2 }\\ {e,2.~e} >>
}
secondMono = {
  { e'8 [e'] gis, [e'] b [e] }
  { e,8 [e'] gis, [e'] b [e] }
  { a,8 [e'] c [e] b [e] }
  { a,8 [e'] g, [e'] f, [e'] }
}
thirdMono = {
  { e,8 [e'] gis, [e'] b [e] }
}

{
\time 3/4
\set Score.barNumberVisibility = #all-bar-numbers-visible
\bar ""
<<
  \new Staff \relative c'' {
\firstMono
\repeat volta 2 {
 \firstPoly
}
\alternative {
  { \firstPolyRepeat }
  { \secondMono }
}
\thirdMono
  }
  \new TabStaff \relative c' {
\firstMono
\repeat volta 2 {
 \firstPoly
}
\alternative {
  { \firstPolyRepeat }
  { \secondMono }
}
\thirdMono
  }
  
}


If you run this, you will see that the bar between the alternates is
single sided where it should be double sided. Likewise there is no bar
concluding the second alternative. Also a nit-pick, but the volta bars
are two long, should be one bar, not 'N' bars.

  
Is the section from bar 10 to bar 14 repeated or not? If not, then the 
single sided repeat bar is correct. If bars 10-14 are repeated, then 
you'll need a slightly different structure for the repeats.


Brett



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Re: bar line

[Brett Duncan]

Hugh Myers wrote:

Let's say that it is--- what would the different structure look like?
  

Try this:

\version "2.13.7"
%
% malaguena.ly -- q&d testbed for mixed notation score and tab.
%
\header {
 title = "Malaguena"
 subtitle = "none"
 composer = "Music by Unknown"
}

eMinor = < e   b  gis  e b e, >
firstMono = { \eMinor \eMinor \eMinor }
firstPoly = {
 << { b c d } \\ { < gis, d e, >2. } >>
 << { d'4 c b } \\ { e,,2. } >>
 << { c''4 a b} \\ { a,2. } >>
 << { \acciaccatura d'8 c4 b a } \\ { a,2. } >>
 << { b'4 a c } \\ { g,2. } >>
 << { a'4 g f } \\ { f,2. } >>
}

firstPolyRepeat = {
 << { r4 \times 2/3 {gis'8 b e } e,4 \times 2/3 {gis8 b e} e,2 }\\ 
{e,2.~e} >>

}
secondMono = {
 { e'8 [e'] gis, [e'] b [e] }
 { e,8 [e'] gis, [e'] b [e] }
 { a,8 [e'] c [e] b [e] }
 { a,8 [e'] g, [e'] f, [e'] }
}
thirdMono = {
 { e,8 [e'] gis, [e'] b [e] }
}

{
\time 3/4
\set Score.barNumberVisibility = #all-bar-numbers-visible
\set Score.voltaSpannerDuration = #(ly:make-moment 3 4)
<<
 \new Staff \relative c'' {
   \firstMono
   \repeat volta 2 {
\firstPoly
   }
   \alternative {
 { \firstPolyRepeat }
 { \repeat volta 2 { \bar ":|.|:"
\secondMono }}
   }
   \thirdMono
 }
 \new TabStaff \relative c' {
   \firstMono
   \repeat volta 2 {
\firstPoly
   }
   \alternative {
 { \firstPolyRepeat }
 { \repeat volta 2 { \bar ":|.|:"
\secondMono }}
   }
   \thirdMono
 }
>>
}

More like what you want?

Brett


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Re: bar numbering

[Brett Duncan]

Hugh Myers wrote:

Clearly this doesn't work:

\version "2.13.7"
upper = {
  b c d
}

lower = {
  < gis, d e, >2.
}

{
  \time 3/4
  <<
  \new Staff \relative c'' {
<<
  \set Score.barAlways = ##t
  \set Score.defaultBarType = "|"
  \new Voice = "1" { \voiceOne \upper }
  \new Voice = "2" { \voiceTwo \lower }
>>
  }
  \new TabStaff \relative c' {
<<
  \new TabVoice = "t1" { \voiceOne \upper }
  \new TabVoice = "t2" { \voiceTwo \lower }
>>
  }
  >>
}

what does? That is, what numbers each bar, not each not?
  


Instead of

\set Score.barAlways = ##t

try

\override Score.BarNumber #'break-visibility = #'#(#t #t #t)

HTH

Brett


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Re: Added ninth chord (symbol)

[Brett Duncan]

On 30/04/2016 3:58 am, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016, Henry Law wrote:

In a lead sheet I want to use the chord which I call an "added ninth". Using
the key of C as an example, I want the chord C-E-G-D: a plain major triad with
the ninth added on top.

Try "c1:9^7"
That is:  dominant ninth, delete the seventh.

I don't know how the chord *name* will display, but that can be adjusted
with overrides; this will at least get the notes right.


You can also use "c1:5.9", which just adds the 9th over the basic triad.
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Re: Added ninth chord (symbol)

[Brett Duncan]

On 30/04/2016 8:24 am, Henry Law wrote:

On 29/04/16 22:20, Brett Duncan wrote:

You can also use "c1:5.9", which just adds the 9th over the basic triad.


I coded g2:5.9 in chordmode and got G9, which isn't the right chord. 
I'm pursuing pop-chords.ly.


As Matthew said, you will need to override how the chord name is 
displayed, but this (or Matthew's suggestion) at least constructs a 
chord with the right notes.


Brett
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Re: Added ninth chord (symbol)

[Brett Duncan]

 On 30/04/2016 3:24 pm, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016, Brett Duncan wrote:

   I coded g2:5.9 in chordmode and got G9, which isn't the right
   chord. I'm pursuing pop-chords.ly.

As Matthew said, you will need to override how the chord name is displayed,
but this (or Matthew's suggestion) at least constructs a chord with the
right notes.

We should probably step back and clarify what seems to be the real issue
every time someone asks about chord mode:

Chord mode is completely separate from typesetting chord names.

"Chord mode" is chord *input* mode.  When you enter a chord with chord
mode, it is immediately translated into a set of notes, and whatever code
you used to enter it is forgotten.  Then if you are typesetting chord
names, the chord names are determined by analysing that set of notes, not
by referring back to the forgotten input code. [*]

I  agree with you about clarifying what the actual issue is at the outset.

 I not sure that chord mode and the ChordNames context are as 
completely separate as you suggest, but IMO that's not really the issue. 
The problem lies in the fact that the default (Ignatzek) chord names are 
typically okay for only the simplest chords. The moment a user tries to 
input something more "complex" (not that an added ninth is particularly 
complex), what is generated is***not* what the user is after. I've seen 
plenty of messages on this list over the last decade or so complaining 
about this very fact.


I suspect many have done the same as me - created my own file of 
exceptions, added to it over time as need, and included it as a matter 
of routine. Which is fine for me and others doing the same, but leaves 
the unexpected Ignatzek defaults as an unhappy surprise for new users.



You can do both, and it sounds like that's what Henry actually wants.  His
initial question, which gave a bunch of examples of note sets and seemed
to imply he'd accept any syntax that generated the correct notes, made me
think it was a question primarily about input syntax.

I read it that way as well.

Henry, have you had any success with the pop-chords.ly file? (If not, I 
have some files I could send to you.)


Brett
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Re: Added ninth chord (symbol)

[Brett Duncan]

On 30/04/2016 6:30 pm, Malte Meyn wrote:



Am 30.04.2016 um 08:56 schrieb Brett Duncan:

Henry, have you had any success with the pop-chords.ly file? (If not, I
have some files I could send to you.)


You don�t need this or chord exceptions in general if you follow my 
much simpler answer that no-one replied to 
(http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-04/msg00823.html)


In dealing with Henry's specific question, yes. To deal with any other 
chord names that are not what the user requires, maybe not.
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Re: Added ninth chord (symbol)

[Brett Duncan]

On 30/04/2016 9:36 pm, Thomas Morley wrote:

g2:5.9 is not correct. See the putput from the following code listing
some (all?) possibilities to _input_ the correct chord.

tst = {
   \chordmode {
\set additionalPitchPrefix = "add"
c:1.3.5.9
c:3.5.9
c:5.9 %% not correct !
c:9^7
   }
   \notemode {
 
   }
}
<<
   \new Staff \tst
   \new ChordNames \tst
I assume you are using LP 2.19 - I'm using  2.18 and the results are 
different, c:5 still produces a triad. But this is something to note for 
the future.



Well, two problems.
(1) Like yourself I've seen a plethora of requests to write
chord-names in a certain way over the years.
Though, there is no general consense how to do it. Everyone wants it
(a little) different.
True, but unlike most chord naming schemes I've come across in the last 
30 years, I find the Ignatzek defaults to be quite unhelpful in 
producing either the same symbol for different chords (e.g. the G9 and 
Gadd9 case that got this thread started, or have at look at what c:9.11+ 
generates) or else symbols that are well, odd. For example, if a user 
enters c:4 (which was the subject of another thread sometime in the not 
so distant past), they get back  "C4 sus4 3" - whatever that is.



(2) LilyPond provides methods to get the desired output: via
exceptions or the already mentioned pop-chords-snippet
http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=750
and derivates from it.
Also true, but it's not obvious you need these methods until you start 
running up against the inadequacies of the Ignatzek defaults.


Brett


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Re: tuplets

[Brett Duncan]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I've heard/used tuplets since the mid 1980s when I first started learning
music. However, I've always understood it to specifically mean 'two in the
time of x', probably as a mispronounciation of 'duplets' by confusing it
with 'two' (two-plets - I grew up in Norfolk!).


I think you may be right about the mispronunciation. I learned about 
duplets as a student nearly 30 years ago (from music theory texts that 
were old even then). But the word tuplet was not one I came across until 
much later.



I don't particularly like the idea of creating a neologism just for the LP
manual, whatever Finale may have done. As we've already seen, it's going
to cause problems for translating the manual into other languages and
won't necessarily even be clear to native English-speakers.


The neologism seems to have become well established in any case (e.g. 
Google returns over 58000 results for the term). And for English 
speakers, at least, it's an obvious back-formation from quintuplet, 
sextuplet, etc.



In what context do we actually need to use this generic term? Surely we
can avoid it?


I have at hand a Schubert piano piece which includes a grouping of 23 
demisemiquavers in the time of 24, and a grouping of 13 
hemidemisemiquavers in the time of 8 - what would I call these? It's in 
cases like this that I think a generic term is useful.


My $0.02

Brett


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Re: educational first draft

[Brett Duncan]

Graham Percival wrote:



Was Educational use; name change?


No particular good reason.  That said, I'm quite open to a real name 
change.


It seems to me that much of what's in this section could be classed as 
"editorial" rather than simply "educational". So what about "Editorial 
Notation" or maybe "Editorial and Educational Notations"?


Just a thought.

Brett


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Re: GDP: church rests

[Brett Duncan]

Graham Percival wrote:

GDP:
http://web.uvic.ca/~gperciva/

Take a look at
NR 1.2.2 Writing rests: Multi measure rests


is "church rests" a real musical term?  There's some question over
whether we should use "church rests" or "Kirchenpausen".

Cheers,
- Graham


I've never seen reference to "church rests" apart from the Lilypond 
docs. Why not just refer to "longa and breve rests"?


Brett


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Re: position whole measure rest

[Brett Duncan]

Wilbert Berendsen wrote:

Hello, I know that I can position a rest vertically using e.g. d'1\rest .

But how can I alter the vertical position of a whole-measure rest (R1)? I want 
it to move outside the staff, so it should also get a ledger line.


\relative c' <<
{ e2 e4 a } \\
{ R1 }

The R1 is drawn too close to the notes.

TIA,
with best regards,
Wilbert Berendsen


Something like this?

<<
{ e'2 e4 a } \\
{ \override MultiMeasureRest #'staff-position =#-7  R1 }
>>

HTH,
Brett


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Re: Second attempt - Chord gis ais b dis - getting its proper name

[Brett Duncan]

Thies Albrecht wrote:

Tomas Valusek schrieb:

Hello,

I'm transcribing a piece where a chord mentioned in subject occurs. It's
minor chord with added second. I can't get the proper chord name in
Lilypond 2.10.33 on Windows. The best I can get is dis:6-:sus4 - but I
want something like gis:m:2. What now?
As far as I know this is called a G#-minor-add9, not add2. Perhaps this 
can give the clue. (I'm not sure whether this nomenclatur is still right 
for minor chords, but at least I makes sense to me.)


Well, if the chord is structured from bottom to top as Tomas has given 
it (G# A# B D#), I'd call it an add2.


Tomas, to get the name to appear as you want, you will have to "roll 
your own" - this thread 
(http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2008-01/msg00698.html) 
covers what you need to do (but with different chords).


HTH,
Brett


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Re: Second attempt - Chord gis ais b dis - getting its proper name

[Brett Duncan]

Hi Thies,

Thies Albrecht wrote:

Hi list!

Brett Duncan schrieb:
As far as I know this is called a G#-minor-add9, not add2. Perhaps 
this can give the clue. (I'm not sure whether this nomenclatur is 
still right for minor chords, but at least I makes sense to me.)


Well, if the chord is structured from bottom to top as Tomas has given 
it (G# A# B D#), I'd call it an add2.
It's one matter naming a chord, a second getting the pitches right. For 
example:  is still c major. According to the context used in an 
indication regarding chord inversion can be added.


As far as I understand it Thomas wants to print the name and with 
gis1:m5.9 I get gis-minor-add9.


But he's not adding a ninth, he's adding the second, and it's not simply 
a chord inversion. The pianists and jazz musicians I've worked with make 
a clear distinction between these two voicings.


Of course, LP by default doesn't give you a sensible name if you enter 
gis:m5.2, even though that's what Tomas wants, so it's necessary to add 
a chord name exception to get acceptable output.


(I've ended up constructing a rather extensive set of chord name 
exceptions for this reason, since I find the Ignatzek default generally 
unsatisfactory.)


Regards,
Brett


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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Brett Duncan]

Trevor Bača wrote:
None of which has anything to do with ottava spanners. Or with 
"octavated" (caveat: not an English word) clefs. So while both an ottava 
spanners and an octavated clefs most certainly do effect "octave 
transposition" (which is absolutely the right phrase here), I would 
never check the docs for "transposition" of any sort when looking up 
ottava spanners and octavated clefs. I would check for "ottava 
(spanners)" and "clefs".


I agree - I would look for 'ottava' or 'octave', but not for 
'transposition', and I expect this would be the case for most users.


The term "octave clefs" crops up in many places on the 'Net, and while 
that doesn't prove anything, maybe that simple term would suffice - it 
certainly sounds more natural (to my ear at least) than "octavated".


Just a thought.

Brett



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Re: GDP: What term do you use?

[Brett Duncan]

Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Brett Duncan:
The term "octave clefs" crops up in many places on the 'Net, 


An octave clef is something different than an ottava bracket. Botch indicate 
octavation, but while an ottava bracket (e.g. 8va) applies only to some 
spanned part of the music, an octave clef (e.g. \clef "treble_8" for tenor) 
indicates that the whole part is notated an octave higher.


Cheers,
Reinhold


It was octave clefs that I was referring to, not the ottava 
brackets/spanners, in response to Trevor's reference to 'octavated' 
clefs,  since, as he pointed out, 'octavated' isn't a real word in English.


Kurt's original question was about what to call it when you *use* ottava 
brackets. Personally, I've only ever called it an 'octave change', or 
referred to an ottava passage/measure. 'Octavation' is not a real word 
in English, and while I have no objection to neologisms per se, if there 
is a better English expression that is clearly understood, IMO that's 
what should appear in the docs.


Brett


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Extracting only lyrics and chords

[Brett Duncan]

I have a lily file that contains a vocal line (melody), lyrics, chords 
and piano part. My output from this file is the piano part with centred 
lyrics, and a separate lead sheet showing chords, melody and lyrics. All 
 of this is OK.


But I now have a guitarist who wants only the chords (with barlines) and 
lyrics *without* the melody. And I can't for the life of me see a simple 
way to get this from what I already have. Since the lyrics are being 
associated with the melody, the melody gets printed.


I could add the durations to the lyrics, but I'd like to know if I can 
get what I want without resorting to this.


Any ideas? Am I missing something obvious?

TIA,

Brett


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Re: Extracting only lyrics and chords

[Brett Duncan]

Mats Bengtsson wrote:
Why not read the section called "Lyrics independent of notes" in the 
manual?


  /Mats


This came tantalisingly close to giving me a solution; the catch was 
that the ties and slurs in the melody were ignored or lost and the 
alignment of the lyrics against the chords went out the window.


Thanks anyway.

Brett


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Re: mac os x, lilypondtool, jedit, a puzzle

[Brett Duncan]

Stan Sanderson wrote:

In the interest of improving a great tool, I ask...

I'm sure I'm not the only one using jEdit with LilyPondTool on Mac OS 10 
(10.4.11, PPC). I've had a dialogue with Bertalan Fodor (author of 
LilyPondTool) concerning its use on the Mac OS. He doesn't have access 
to a Mac and consequently finds answering my question difficult.


So, is there anyone using the Mac version of LilyPondTool who has found 
a way of successfully invoking convert-ly?


The problem appears to be related to differences in how the Mac and 
Windows versions use Python. From what Bertalan has suggested, 
LilyPondTool translates "convert-ly" to "Python>/convert-ly.py --edit ".


 From the jEdit Activity Log...

9:36:26 AM [notice] AWT-EventQueue-0: '/Users/ssanders/Desktop/test1.ly'
9:36:26 AM [notice] AWT-EventQueue-0: command: convert-ly 
[Ljava.lang.String;@98ba6f
9:36:26 AM [error] AWT-EventQueue-0: java.io.IOException: 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin//python: not found
9:36:26 AM [error] AWT-EventQueue-0:  at 
java.lang.UNIXProcess.forkAndExec(Native Method)


The same results are observed if the .py suuffix is included on the 
convert-ly command.


I can invoke "lilypond --version" successfully from the jEdit Console so 
the path to Lilypond appears to be correct. Invoking "convert-ly 
--version" (or convert-ly.py" produces an error message.


I have not found a way to communicate with the contents of 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/ (other than lilypond 
itself) when using LilyPondTool.


Any solutions?

Stan


Up until now, I had not tried invoking convert-ly from inside jEdit, but 
had been happy to update directly with Lilypond.app. But this thread got 
me curious, so I tried it - and it works fine for me. (I'm running OSX 
10.4.11 Intel.)


In jEdit, under Plugin Options: LilyPondTool: Commands, I have the path 
for convert-ly as "LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/convert-ly" 
(without the quotes, of course). I have both the jEdit and Lilypond apps 
in the same directory (my Applications folder).


Brett


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Re: I know you've heard this before

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:

LilyPondTool is Java based, and works on Windows and Unix. It
should work on OSX, but I haven't been able to get it to do
so.

You can use textedit to edit your lilypond files on OSX.

Carl


On 7/26/08 3:36 PM, "James E. Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Looks like I was mistaken, lilypondtool is for windows.

Am 26.07.2008 um 23:24 schrieb Carl Sorensen:


James E. Bailey  mac.com> writes:


I would also add that lilypondtool with jedit is probably the easiest
method.


Can you give me a hint or two about getting lilypondtool to work
with OSX?
I'm an OSX newbie, and I haven't been able to get lilypondtool to work
properly.

Thanks,

Carl


I have Lilypondtool working for me (OS X 10.4.11 (Intel) jEdit 4.3pre14, 
lilypondtool 2.10.5).


What exactly isn't happening for you Carl? I've never had trouble 
getting it to install, but it did take some fiddling with the Plugin 
options before I could get it to properly invoke LP. Is this the problem 
you're experiencing?


Brett



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Re: Beginner problem with PianoStaff

[Brett Duncan]

Don Ravey wrote:
 I've just begun to learn LilyPond and already have this problem:  when 
I try to use PianoStaff, LilyPond crashes without even writing a log 
entry.  I uninstalled and reinstalled LP with no effect.  If I remove 
the PianoStaff reference, it behaves as expected (although I can't get 
the results I want, due to my inexperience).  I am running LP 2.10.13 
under Windows XP.  Thanks for any help you can provide me.


Don

\version "2.10.13"
\header {
title = "Keeping Up Appearances Theme"
composer = "Nick Ingman"
arranger = \markup { \fontsize #0.1 "Arr. by Donald Ravey" }
meter = "Brightly"
}

\relative c' {
 \new PianoStaff
 <<
   { \clef bass
 8   r }
   { \time 4/4 r1
 8 r  r 4 8. e16 }
 >>
}


When I tried this on my Mac, it compiled without any problems. So I 
tried it under XP using LP 2.10.33 - and it threw an error!


The fix proved to be to simply change "PianoStaff" to "pianoStaff" and 
then it compiles - but that's not how that command appears in the docs! 
A bug?


Don, I'd go with what Dominic suggested and get the latest development 
version.


HTH,

Brett


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Re: WANTED: Design for documentation (Photoshop power users!)

[Brett Duncan]

Alexander Kobel wrote:

A List Apart explains how to implement this with cookies, but we would
rather not use JavaScript:

And yes, I'm against JavaScript, too. This doesn't count as a real
client-side solution from my point of view.


?? What is the objection to JavaScript? And why do you not regard the 
script that is described on A List Apart as a real client-side solution?


Brett


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Re: WANTED: Design for documentation (Photoshop power users!)

[Brett Duncan]

Patrick McCarty wrote:



I'm still experimenting with this.  :-)

I've created another design with a color palette that passes the W3C
Web Content Accessibility guidelines for color contrast:

http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/start-alt-alt.html
http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/lilypond-alt-alt-index.html
http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/internals-alt-alt.html
http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/snippets-alt-alt.html

The blue links are very close to pure blue (#00F), which is a little
bit intense, but there aren't very many blues that pass the
guidelines.  What does everyone think about this?  Are there any
colors from this design that you like more than those from the
previous design?


Overall, LGTM, but yes, the blue links are a bit intense against the 
green background. #0030B8 might be more like what you want. Or you could 
try something more blue-green than just blue, e.g. #006078 (which still 
meets the requirements for WCAG 1.0 and 2.0).


My $0.02 (Australian, and so worth even less! ;-)

Brett


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Re: What to do when \> and \< produce text

[Brett Duncan]

Francisco Vila wrote:

2008/10/28 George_ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

I did some tests and they came out perfectly fine, so it has to be something
wrong with my ly file, right? Except I can't find anything in there that I
did differently between the crescendo that came out right and the ones that
started coming out wrong. The file includes one crescendo done correctly,
and the rest output as 'cresc.' text.


I can't help you without having the whole file and trying to reproduce
the problem in my system.


George's file was linked to in his previous email: 
http://www.nabble.com/file/p20216702/T.ly


The problem was that George had used the \cresc command in his file, but 
had \crescHairpin command _before_ the \cresc command. Moving 
\crescHairpin appears to have solved his problem.


I couldn't find \cresc in the Notation Reference, but it does appear in 
the Internals Reference, where it is listed simply as an alternative 
notation for \<. From George's file, it appears to not only generate a 
text crescendo but also switch the display of crescendos to text mode 
until explicitly changed back to hairpin - is this the intended behaviour?


Brett


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Re: What to do when \> and \< produce text

[Brett Duncan]

Valentin Villenave wrote:

Use the Source, Luke...

ly/spanners-init.ly, line 21:

cresc =  {
   #(ly:export (make-event-chord (list cr)))
   \set crescendoText = \markup { \italic "cresc." }
   \set crescendoSpanner = #'text
}


Okay, that makes things clearer (for me, at least).


I don't know why George used \cresc in the first place though.


A good question - maybe George can answer. However, it should be noted 
that in the Internals Reference under 1.1.17 CrescendoEvent it says:


...
Syntax: note\cr … note\rc
You can also use \<, \!, \cresc, and \endcresc. See the Notation 
Reference for details.

...

IMHO, that reads as though \cr, \< and \cresc are just synonyms for the 
same command. But clearly \cresc is not the same as \<. So the IR needs 
to be corrected.


Mats Bengtsson wrote:

The \cresc macro is defined in ly/spanners-init.ly and is preceded by a comment:

% STOP: junkme!

so it's clearly not well-supported It's certainly intended to generate a text style 
crescendo "cresc.".
However, at the time the macro was implemented, any setting of crescendoText 
was automatically
reverted after the next crescendo event (i.e. it worked like a \once \set ...) 
so now that the crescendoText
property works just as all other properties, it would make more sense to let 
the macro be implemented as

cresc =  {
 #(ly:export (make-event-chord (list cr)))
 \once \set crescendoText = \markup { \italic "cresc." }
 \once \set crescendoSpanner = #'text
}

if we want it to remain. In contrast to using the supported and documented 
macro \crescTextCresc,
you don't get any dashed line when using \cresc. Note also that there is a 
macro \endcresc that reverts
the settings done by \cresc (which wouldn't be needed if we used the above definition). 


Given that what \cresc currently does can also be achieved with

  \override DynamicTextSpanner #'dash-period = #-1.0
  \crescTextCresc\

as clearly shown in Notation Reference 1.3.1, it there really a need to 
keep it? I can't say that I've seen many instances of the text "cresc." 
without the dashed line, but perhaps others have.


Brett




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Re: Lilypond Tool on Mac 10.4.3

[Brett Duncan]

Craig Bakalian wrote:

Hi,

Has anyone out there downloaded the LilypondTool  jEdit  and have 
got it to work?  I am just so cautious these days with java on Mac OS 
10. I used to program heavily in java, but have not in 7 years.  So, I 
am not even up to date on the different names for the run time.  Like, 
Java runtime 5 on Mac OS X is downloaded as... because when I go to 
update my iMac's Java, it goes for 1.4.3 or Java 2.  I am really in the 
dark here.  Anyone up to explain this?


I've had jEdit+lilypondtool working for some time now.

If you go to Apple's developer downloads 
(http://developer.apple.com/java/download/), you'll find the releases 
for Java 2 Standard Edition (depending on what point release of OS X 
10.4 you have, you'll need to choice Release 5 or Release 6). This 
actually appears as version 1.5.0 when you type java -version in a 
terminal window.


BTW, I'm using jEdit 4.3 pre 14.

Brett


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Re: Just chords and lyrics.

[Brett Duncan]

Francisco Vila wrote:

2008/11/25 Keith Weintraub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Folks,
 Anyone have an example (forgive me if I missed it in the docs) of just chords
and lyrics?

I don't want to worry about the notes and just want to put word phrases
more-or-less aligned with the correct measures.


You do not need a music score typesetting system to do this, just use
a word processor or a spreadsheet.


Yes, but if you have a piece of music that you want to extract different 
parts out of, and one of those is a chord-and-lyrics chart for a 
guitarist who can't tell tell the difference between music notation and 
squashed ants, it would be nice to have a simple way of getting LP to 
generate this.


Brett



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Re: Just chords and lyrics.

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:

Here's one possible solution:

\version "2.11.64"

myChords = \chordmode {
  c1 g f c
}

myMelody = {
  c2 c4 c4 |
  c4 c c c |
  c4 c c c |
  c2 c
}

myLyrics = \lyricmode {
  Hi there let's |
  have fun with this |
  Here we have fun |
  don't we
}

<<
  \new ChordNames {
\myChords
  }
%  \new Devnull {
%\new Voice = "myVoice"
   \new Devnull = "myVoice" \myMelody
%  }
  \new Lyrics {
\lyricsto "myVoice" \myLyrics
  }


 End of snippet.

This will generate lots of warnings, but it gives chords aligned with
syllables.


I'm using version 2.11.63, rather than 2.11.64, and I don't get any 
warnings - I don't get any output either! No pdf is generated. Rather 
strange.


Brett


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Re: Just chords and lyrics.

[Brett Duncan]

Jonathan Kulp wrote:

Yes, this works, but it only confirms my belief that someone who wants 
this really would be better off with a word processor or GuitarTeX.  The 
spacing looks awful without a staff, not at all the sort of thing you 
normally see in a songbook of this type.  (If the staff is present, at 
least the spacing makes sense because you can see where the words are 
supposed to fall inside the measures.)  The output of GuitarTeX looks 
exactly like a lyrics/chordnames songsheet is supposed to look, so I 
would recommend pointing people to that instead of trying to make 
Lilypond do it.  Maybe we should put an example in the docs anyway, 
though.  I suppose at the very least it would show people how to do it 
and it wouldn't come up on the list anymore (or we'd have a place to 
direct them when it did).  Maybe we could do one example with a blank 
staff and one without any staff at all?


Jon


Sometimes you want this as part of a larger set of outputs, e.g. you are 
printing out parts for the vocalist, bass, sax AND the guitarist who 
just wants the lyrics and the chords (because he can't/won't read 
musical notation). It would obviously be nice to have LP generate this 
as well as the other required parts, rather than having to re-create 
work you've already done in another application.


Having said that, the output from the solutions proposed so far is 
indeed awful. The only way I have found that gives a reasonable output 
is to add the durations to the lyrics and not use the DevNull approach.


Brett


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Re: Just chords and lyrics.

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:


I got exactly the same output with the Devnull approach as with the
durations added to the lyrics.




I can't see any difference at all in the output of the two approaches.

Are you doing something different?  If so, I'd really like to see it.

Thanks,

Carl


The difference turned out to be that I had used line breaks, and the 
output wasn't crammed all to one side. It turns out that this also works 
with the devnull approach, and the output is the same.


Brett




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Re: flatten ties ~ proportional notation.

[Brett Duncan]

Rob Canning wrote:

i was trying to do it with sed with a line like this:

sed  's/~/\\glissando/' header-inserted > ties-fixed;

but ran into trouble with all the ^ sybols and so on -


I tried this myself and it seems to work fine once add the 'g' flag: 
's/~/\\glissando/g'


However, horizontal glissandi may coincide with staff lines, so this 
isn't the best solution in any case.


Brett


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Re: Arpeggio next to a chord

[Brett Duncan]

James E. Bailey wrote:



Great, that worked. This is still a workaround, but given that I don't
want to use the major 7 (at least for now) for its original purpose, I
can just say to overwrite it with arpeggioGuitar then I get what I
wished.


Rather than subverting your major 7th symbol, you could also set up a 
chord exception that adds the arpeggio when you add the 15th to the 
chord (which of course you would normally never do):


%%%
arpeggioGuitar = \markup \override #'(baseline-skip . -2 ) {
\musicglyph #"space"
\center-column {
\center-column {
\musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio"
\musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio"
\musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio"
}
\musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio.arrow.M1"
}
}

chExceptionMusic =  {
1-\markup {m \super \arpeggioGuitar }
}
chExceptions = #( append
(sequential-music-to-chord-exceptions chExceptionMusic #t)
ignatzekExceptions)

\score {
<<
\chords {
\germanChords
\set chordNameExceptions = #chExceptions
e2:m b:m e1:m5.15 e2:m e:m b:m b:m e:m e:m
}
{
\clef "G_8"
\key g \major
\time 4/4
\teeny e'4 4 b4 4 | 4 
r4 r4 		\normalsize b4 |
b8 b4. e'4 e'8 e'8 | a4 a8 d'4. r8 b8 | b8 b8 
b8 b8 b8 a8 g8 g8 |

}
}
%%%

Brett


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Re: Copyright symbol

[Brett Duncan]

David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

There appears to be no way of inserting a copyright © symbol in
lilypond 1.12.1. U+xxx, ©, © and © don't work. I notice that
the manual's copyright may not be valid because the symbol is omitted.
(c) is ugly, amateurish and not valid.

In previous versions, © worked. How can I get the symbol? Do I have to 
downgrade? That would be a shame. The documentation improvements are 
sensational.


You have much demonstration of "copyright = " in the docs, but never
a symbol in a lilypond document, and the notice /is not valid/ without
the symbol, so there is no usable example whatever.


This is not correct. The US Copyright Office requires:

the symbol © (the letter C in a circle)
OR the word “Copyright”
OR the abbreviation “Copr.”

for copyright notice on a document - however, as of March 1, 1989, the 
US now applies the Berne Convention, bringing it into line with most of 
the rest of the world, and a copyright notice is not absolutely to 
secure copyright (though obviously still a good thing to do).


Having said that, it would be good to determine why it's not working for 
all. (It certainly works for me.)


One question that comes to mind is whether or not the problem lies in 
the PDF reader being used rather than the PDF itself. Have you tried a 
different PDF reader?


Brett



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Re: Copyright symbol SOLVED

[Brett Duncan]

David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

This could never have happened if the symbol were present in any
header example or template. Every copyright notice should have
the symbol, because without it it's not a copyright notice.


Not true - if it has the word "Copyright" followed by the year of 
publication and the name of the owner of copyright on the work, it's a 
valid copyright notice - the circled c is not an absolute necessity.


Brett


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Re: Arpeggio next to a chord

[Brett Duncan]

Miklos Vajna wrote:

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:11:52PM +1100, Brett Duncan  
wrote:
Rather than subverting your major 7th symbol, you could also set up a 
chord exception that adds the arpeggio when you add the 15th to the 
chord (which of course you would normally never do):


Hi Brett,

I like this, but how can I make it work, not only with minors?

I mean 'e1:m5.15' currently works with your solution, but 'g1:5.15'.


arpeggioGuitar = \markup \override #'(baseline-skip . -2 ) {
 \musicglyph #"space"
 \center-column {
 \center-column {
 \musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio"
 \musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio"
 \musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio"
 }
 \musicglyph #"scripts.arpeggio.arrow.M1"
 }
}

chExceptionMusic =  {
1-\markup {m \super \arpeggioGuitar }
}


^ I guess I have to add something here. :)

Thanks!


Add further definitions in chExceptionMusic like this:

chExceptionMusic =  {
1-\markup {m \super \arpeggioGuitar }
1-\markup { \super \arpeggioGuitar }
}

You can add as many chord definitions as you need - if you want the 
arpeggio next to a 7th, add

1-\markup {7 \super \arpeggioGuitar }

and the chord would be entered like g1:7.15

Brett


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Re: Change Chordname Font Size

[Brett Duncan]

Ezequiel Sierra wrote:

How can i change the font size of ChordNames?

Ezequiel


\override ChordName #'font-size = #1.0

Change the value at the end to get the size you want.
(See 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-internals/ChordName#ChordName 
for more detail.)



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Re: Chord notation in files output by Rosegarden

[Brett Duncan]

Lorenzo Bicci wrote:



There is no No Chords symbol or function in Rosegarden. I'm referring to
the use of "N.C." or "NC" to mean that instruments that are playing
chords must stop playing chords, which i've seen especially in pop
music. Of course a "N.C." markup could be put in as text, but it would
be more confortable and logical having the possibility to put it among
the chords in the chords section of the .ly file.
(Sorry for my bad English, I hope it was clear anyway :) )



You could always define a "no chord" markup like this:

nc={ \mark \markup{ " " \halign #-3 \sans "N.C."}}

and then in your chords, put something like \nc s1
(changing the duration of the spacer rest to suit).

Brett



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Re: Compilation Errors on MAC OS X 10.4.11

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:

This is an error that exists in 2.12.1.

See the list bug-lilyp...@gnu.org for the fix that is needed.

2.12.2 has the fix, and is available for download.  Please try 2.12.2.

Thanks,

Carl


2.12.2 fixes the problem with font-file-as-ps-string, but the Pango 
warnings about table 28333 persist. As there doesn't appear to be any 
problems with the output, the warnings are just an minor annoyance, but 
no one likes to see warnings.


Brett


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Re: printed page does not match the .pdf file

[Brett Duncan]

Anthony W. Youngman wrote:
In message <20090207193803.ga2...@istic.org>, Daniel Hulme 
 writes

On Sat, Feb 07, 2009 at 06:34:35PM +, Anthony W. Youngman wrote:

I just don't know where or why Acrobat is finding this American Letter
stuff (oh - I've got a Hickey Pouse WinPrinter - a laserjet 1000 series.
Maybe that's why :-(


Maybe, but I've heard of other people having the same problem with
Acrobat 8. If you're still on 8, perhaps upgrading to 9 will fix it. I
don't know of any workarounds.

Actually, I'm on Acrobat 5 (and no, upgrading to 9 is not an option). I 
could try 9 Reader, but I find its incessant desire to talk to the 
internet a real pain (and at work its habit of trying to upgrade itself 
regularly breaks other programs that use pdf controls :-(


Cheers,
Wol


Have you considered trying Foxit Reader?


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Re: yet another chord question

[Brett Duncan]

James E. Bailey wrote:

I'd like to have a chord that is C-10. I have

myChordDefinitions = {
   -\markup \super {-10}
}

And then, of course the requisite

myChordExceptions = #(append
   (sequential-music-to-chord-exceptions myChordDefinitions #t)
   ignatzekExceptions)

myChordInit = {
   \set chordNameExceptions = #myChordExceptions
}

I have my very simple input file of

Chord = \chords { \myChordInit c:9+ }

music = { c'2 }

\score {
   <<
  \Chord
  \music
   >>
}


So why is the output not changed? The chord name chart shows me that e g b dis> is a #9 chord. What I see is the default output of a #9 chord.




Because c:9+ would be the chord  rather than dis>, so it doesn't match your chord definition.


Brett


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Re: text in staves

[Brett Duncan]

Nikolay Kirov wrote:

Hello!

Is there a way to insert a character or a string into staves? I would
like to write big parenthesis centered at vertical center of staves.

I hope this is possible but I cannot find any advice in the documentation.

Nikolay



I've done this by using:

\once \override TextScript #'extra-offset = #'(0 . -4) s1^\markup{ 
\large "(" }


The text is markup attached to an invisible rest - the override forces 
it back down into the staff.


You may need to fiddle with the values in the override to get it 
positioned exactly where you want it.


HTH

Brett


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Re: Cannot correctly code this rhythm...

[Brett Duncan]

RandomLilyPondUser wrote:

After many an hour reading through the manual, snippets, and forum, I've
finally figured out how to do most of what I need, except this one thing:

I have six measures per line, how do I get the measures to line up perfectly
with each other on all the lines?   I don't want to have to use tons of
code, or input multiple staves, there has to be an easier (couple lines of
code?) way to do this? 


I suggest you take a look at the NR section on proportional notation:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Proportional-notation


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Re: Cannot correctly code this rhythm...

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:



I looked into your project, but the project was complex enough that I didn't
want to spend the time to figure it all out.

I did get far enough to think that perhaps strict spacing only applies to
music notes.  Grace notes and bar lines appear to be spaced around the notes
to avoid collisions.  So, because of the number of grace notes you have, it
may not be possible to get the bar lines aligned, even if the main notes are
all perfectly aligned.


I've been fiddling with your files, and I cannot get the main notes to 
perfectly line up, even when I set proportionalNotationDuration to a 
very small value. The main culprits appear to be the grace notes, as 
Carl indicated, but also the tremolos. (A bug, maybe?)


And set SpacingSpanner #'strict-grace-spacing to ##t did not seem to 
have a discernable effect.


Brett


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Re: why does this simple notation fail a barcheck?

[Brett Duncan]

Chip wrote:


\times 2/3 {f4 fs b}

looks like 3 quarter notes to me.


You've got TWO THIRDS of three quarter notes (timewise).

What is it you're trying to achieve with the triplet?


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Re: glissando up from no note to a note

[Brett Duncan]

Chip wrote:

Robin Bannister wrote:

Chip wrote:

it just resulted in messed up measures


A judicious use of time distortion may help you here.

\transpose c c'{
 \hideNotes g,32\glissando \unHideNotes c'4*7/8  c'4 c'4 r4 |
 \hideNotes c''32\glissando \unHideNotes c'4*7/8  c'4 c'4 r4 |
 a1*3/4\fermata \hideNotes d'4\glissando \unHideNotes |
 ees8->[ c8]-> r4 r2 |
}

And then patiently adjust padding and minimum-length ...

Cheers,
Robin
Been experimenting with the code found in the snippets library and seems 
that where ever I put the \cadenzaOff I get different, incorrect 
results. Sometimes the first eight note turns into a quarter note, 
sometimes it's an eight note, but always the measure and the one that 
follows are all one measure. I've pasted the code to the work in 
progress below.


Is there a particular reason for having the cadenza, as opposed to using 
code like that provided by Robin?



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Re: whole rest in 5/4 bar?

[Brett Duncan]

Chip wrote:
How do I designate a whole rest in a 5/4 measure? I am getting barcheck 
failures with R1 and also with R1 r4

I'm sure it's something simple I'm missing here.
Thanks,
Chip



Why not just R1*5/4 ?


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Re: a:4 chord

[Brett Duncan]

Luc Saffre wrote:

Can somebody explain what's the difference between printing "A^sus4" and
"A^4"? I had only basic music education but am helping with publishing a
songbook using Lilypond, and I thought that the difference is not
important. But now I'm afraid I'm wrong and that I'll have to check some
songs again. Is that right?


The short answer is, it depends on who you are talking to!

If you look at the Dolmetsch Online for example 
(http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory17.htm), you'll find there that C4 
means a C major triad with an added 4th (C-E-F-G). I know several jazz 
musos who interpret it exactly this way.


OTOH, others interpret C4 as a suspended 4th (C-F-G).

Just to add to the confusion, some rock guitarists use this notation to 
indicate an inversion of the classic "power" chord, which is really just 
 an interval of a 5th (e.g. the C5 power chord is just C-G). A C4 in 
this case is just an inversion of an F5 power chord, with just C-F.


Personally, I prefer to avoid the potential confusion by not using the 
notation C4 at all, and use Csus4 or Cadd4 to clear what I mean. (I 
don't have to myself  the power chords, since they don't get used that 
often in jazz ;-).


One other thing to be aware of - if you put C:4 into LP, the chord you 
get is C-E-F, which doesn't actually fit any of the above 
interpretations of "C4". So if you want the power chord, for example, 
you need to enter c:4^3 to remove the 3rd.


HTH,
Brett



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Re: chords : changing from a:sus4 to a

[Brett Duncan]

Luc Saffre wrote:

Hello,

in some printed scores I find a chords notation as shown in the attached
picture. Is there a way to render this in LP? I didn't find any better
than writing "a2:sus4 a" which is less clear...


In a lot of music, " Asus4  A " is exactly how it appears. I've 
certainly seen that far more often than the notation in your attached pic.


Brett


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Re: Real World Usage

[Brett Duncan]

sdfgsdhdshd wrote:



"craigbakalian" wrote lilypond can't compete with Finale; i disagree and
explained why.



Not so - Craig asked a question about whether the topic was about 
Lilypond needing a GUI - you didn't actually answer that.


You did, however, say that Lilypond is missing features that mean that 
music publishers aren't interested in working with Lilypond. You've been 
asked twice what those features are, but so far you've mentioned only a 
single feature - the double breve.


Can we have the rest of the list?


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Re: date in footer?

[Brett Duncan]

Chip wrote:

What's a PEBKAC? I've never seen that before. Anyway, I still find it 
hard to relate the footer to titles and headers, it just doesn't make 
sense to me to include it with those. In my way of thinking the footer 
is a separate entity and should be treated as such.


Hi Chip,

I agree with you, having elements that go in the page footer appear 
under "Titles and Headers" is a bit confusing. And it probably would 
have been more helpful to you if you had been directed to the section on 
custom titles 
(http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Custom-titles), 
which discusses a number of variables you can set in the \paper block, 
such as oddFooterMarkup.


So, combined with the definition for date you've already found, you can have

\paper {
oddFooterMarkup = \markup { \date } 
}


HTH,

Brett


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Re: Lilypond and Jazz chords

[Brett Duncan]

Grammostola Rosea wrote:

Maybe it's an idea to brainstorm a bit about how we want Jazz chords to
be displayed? Maybe some interested people can form a group like the
'tablature group' does?



I'd welcome people creating documents that describe how chord naming 
should

work.  I think that there is a two-step process:

1) Get the chord naming right (it's currently broken)

2) Make sure we have sufficient flexibility to accommodate anybody's 
desired

method of displaying chords (I think this is pretty close right now,
although it may need some tweaking).


  
Do we have an Jazz/pop chord expert on the list (I'm sure he/she exist)? 
And who wants to help with this?


I don't consider myself an "expert", but after 20 years of playing with 
various pop, rock and jazz groups, I've got a pretty good idea of what's 
out there as far as chord notation goes, and I'm willing to be part of 
the discussion. I'm also willing to help on the programming side _if_ I 
can get my head around Scheme.


Brett


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Re: Lilypond and Jazz chords

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:

My currently-planned starting point for chord naming is

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory17.htm#namechords

If you have any disagreement with this reference, please let me know.


It looks like a good starting point to me - there are a couple of things 
that don't appear that I have seen in published music (stacked 
additions, for example) - I'll make a list.



Isn't it possible to give more options and be able to choose an way of
noticing?

For example

\europe

\vs

\Berklee

\realbook

\fakebook




Yes.  That is why I want to separate naming from displaying, as much as
possible.


Makes sense, but I wonder at how many options would needed - the 
problem, as stated before, is that there is no standard, and every 
publishing house seems to do its own thing, even to the point of having 
different conventions used within the same publishing house.


I have in front of me right now three pieces which I'm currently 
performing with my jazz ensemble, from two different publishers, all 
bought in the last twelve months. While at first glance they appear 
similar (partly because the same ugly font has been used in all three), 
a closer look reveals that there are differences in the way chords are 
named in all three pieces. Whether this comes from the original 
composer, the arranger or the typesetter is not clear.


I assume that there would still have to be some means of creating 
exceptions. If someone wants chords named mainly in the Real Book style, 
but with minors notated slightly differently ( Cm / Cmi / C- ) for 
example, would they find themselves having to put together a large list 
of exceptions to get their preferred style? Or would there be some other 
way of 'tweaking' just that aspect of how chord names are displayed?


Brett


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Re: Lilypond and Jazz chords

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:

I assume that there would still have to be some means of creating
exceptions. If someone wants chords named mainly in the Real Book style,
but with minors notated slightly differently ( Cm / Cmi / C- ) for
example, would they find themselves having to put together a large list
of exceptions to get their preferred style? Or would there be some other
way of 'tweaking' just that aspect of how chord names are displayed?


I haven't done it yet, so I don't know.

But I imagine we can have a property minorSymbol which could have values
like \markup {"m"}, \markup {"mi"}, \markup {"-"}, or 'lowerCaseRootName

Then a user could specify the markup to be used to indicate a minor, etc.


Sounds good.


Right now we have a naming problem, separate from the display problem.  If
we can get the code to recognize that we have a Ebmaj7b5, then we can figure
out how to display it in a way that the users will like.  Right now, we
haven't had much luck with anything but exceptions in terms of getting chord
names.


Given that I have only ever used \chordmode with ChordNames, I hadn't 
noticed the problem, but having done a little test, I can see what you 
mean. The chord  produces a chord name of Cb6/sus4/sus2!? 
Bizarre!


Which scheme file processes the chord to produce the name?


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Re: Lilypond and Jazz chords

[Brett Duncan]

Carl D. Sorensen wrote:

As far as I can see, there is very little hope for LilyPond making the right
decision about this chord entered in note mode.  The first note is not the
root of the chord, so it would require substantial computation time to try
to identify the chord properly (and there's no guarantee that the proper
chord identification is unique, based upon just the set of notes).  I'm not
even proposing to *try* to attack this problem.


I agree - determining the chord name based soley on the notes is 
problematic. What do you call ? My first impression is Csus2,4, 
but I've seen the same chord notated as G7sus4/C and even as Dm7add4/C 
(no mention of the missing 5th). A lot of the time, the context (or the 
way the composer/songwriter is thinking about the composition) 
determines the way the chord is named.



As far as my current plan goes, this chord would be identified as a D chord
of some type, as is the current practice in LilyPond.  If the root and
inversion have not been identified (which they will not be when chords are
entered in note mode), then the first note in the chord is identified as the
root, which gives weird chord names.


And it doesn't even do that right at times. In my earlier email, I 
mentioned the chord  that has d as the first note, but the 
generated chord name is C b6/sus4/sus2.


The only way I think that generating more "intelligent" chord names 
could be achieved would be to have some way to tag a note in the chord 
to identify it as the chord root.




Rendering chords written as chord names (des2:m5/d) would of
course be simpler.


Yes, and that functionality is not currently as strong as we'd like it to
be, I think.  That's what I'm proposing to rework, when I get the chance.


I agree with this.

Couldn't there be an 'automatic chord mode' and an 'mode which just
display the chord names', not the notes?



What do you mean by 'automatic chord mode', and  'mode which just displays
the chord names'?

We currently have a context which just displays the chord names.  It's
called ChordNames.

We *don't* have a mode which just *accepts* chord names.  We have a mode
(chord mode) that accepts a root, a modifier, a maximum chord step, and can
add, remove, and modify chord steps, including moving a pitch to the bass or
adding a pitch to the bass.  This mode does not use "chord names" per se,
because chord names tend to be ambiguous (all one needs to do is look at the
variety of names for a given chord as defined by a set of pitches to see
this).  Parsers tend not to deal well with ambiguities, so what we have is a
completely non-ambiguous input format.  Someone who understands the
chordmode input format can look at a chordmode expression and determine
exactly what pitches are intended to be included in the chord.


True - the current chord mode is unambiguous, and IMO easy to 
understand. The one aspect of it I don't like occurs when you enter 
something like c:4 or c:m2 - anyone familiar with chord names like C4 or 
Cm2 will be expecting a triad with an added 4th or 2nd (or maybe a 
suspended 4th or 2nd, depending on what convention is being followed). 
What you actually get is  and . Of course, the manual _does_ 
make it clear what's going on, and you work around it with c:5.4 or 
c:m5.2, but it doesn't sit well with what is generally understood about 
chord names, namely that they are based around *triads*. I would prefer 
to see the notes of the triad remain regardless of the suffix, unless 
they are specifically removed with ^ (or 'sus' in the case of the 3rd). 
But I can live with the current syntax.


I'm more interested in getting saner output from ChordNames. When I 
enter  Lilypond generates Csus4add3 as the chord name. Blehh!


Brett


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Re: texts created using \mark don't display

[Brett Duncan]

hhpmu...@163.com wrote:

Hello,
  I finally finished the orchestration. But the teacher came with two 
problems: one is double bar, which I can solve after asking him which 
bar I made wrong; the second is about Fine and D.C. al Fine. I included 
the mark engraver in the markline context, but the pdf doesn't display 
texts created with \mark. Don't look deeply. Just pick up the defs at 
the top of the file and the score frame near the end. Could you help me? 
I'm about to orchestrate Brahms's Variation On A Theme By Handel. I 
don't hope this problem happen again.
BTW, why this warning occurs although I have no staff changes (I often 
get this when writing piano or harp passage with staff changes)?

warning: no viable initial configuration found: may not find good beam slope

Regards
Haipeng


Actually, if you look more carefully, you will see that \mark is working 
- look at the "Fine" at the end of bar 24.


The issue is that LP's default is to position rehearsal marks at the 
beginning of a line, but your D.C al Fine mark is at the *end* of a line.


This is mentioned in the documentation:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/user/lilypond/Writing-text#Text-marks

and the first snippet for that section specifically shows you how to get 
a D.C. al Fine at the end of your piece.


Brett


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Re: 1/4 notes stems don't merge

[Brett Duncan]

Jean-marc LEGRAND wrote:


Hi list.

Using Lily 2.8 on XP.

When I run this :

{a8 [a16 s a16 a8] }

I get the a16 stems "unlinked".

How can I get the same thing as {a8 [a16  a16 a8] } ?

I get the same pb using \hiddenNotes

Best regards

JMarc


I think you mean \hideNotes rather than \hiddenNotes, and that works for me.

Regards,

Brett


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Re: Fragments; quality of png, and unuseable eps, when using --preview

[Brett Duncan]

Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:

v2.9.22 (Win XP)

I'm using the following command lines to create small musical fragments that
I can later reference in a word processor document that has text and various
musical excerpts:

EXAMPLE BEGIN

To make a small useseable PNG snippet:

"C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond-windows.exe" --png -p
"C:\Job015\smallsnippet.ly"

To make a small EPS snippet:

"C:\Program Files\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond-windows.exe" -b eps
-dno-gs-load-fonts -dinclude-eps-fonts "C:\Job015\smallsnippet.ly"

EXAMPLE END


It's working great, except that the PNG files produced seem a little bit
"fuzzy" to me.

Is it my imagination, (my eyes are not as good as they were 40 years ago)? 
Is the quality of the PNG output a little on the low side?  Can the default

quality level be upped easily for a future release?

Also I tried imbedding the accompanying .EPS file that is also outputted by
the above command.  But in my word processor they show up as a blank
rectangle (Microsoft Word, Win XP).  I have a suspician that the fonts are
somehow not available in the EPS for Word to render properly, but the file
sizes are around 200k for just a one measure snippet, so thats probably the
fonts.

Anyone else have these similar problem using musical fragments as either EPS
or PNG?

Ideally I would like to use the EPS files for embedding in other documents
(because I assume they are lossless in terms of future quality).  But I
would need a fix for the possible bug with why the EPS files show up blank? 
For the time being the slightly fuzzy PNG files will have to do, until I can

track down the EPS problem.

(Note: the EPS command above I got straight from the user manual)

Thanks to anyone who has already gone down this path and can provide some
insight on either the PNG or EPS problems I'm having.


Rick


The default resolution for PNG appears to be 101 dpi. After the --png 
flag in your command, add


-dresolution=300

to get 300 dpi, or whatever you prefer.

Even though you can set the resolution to whatever you like, I'd also 
like the default to something like 300.


The fuzziness, however, may or may not be the PNG resolution.

I did some work for a friend who's been creating a learning kit based on 
the music of Ross Edwards - he also found Microsoft Word rather 
frustrating. Even though the scores and snippets that myself and another 
friend passed to him were all 600 dpi (mine from LP, my friend's from 
Sibelius), when he went to print the document, all the scores and 
snippets were fuzzy, both on-screen and printed. However, when we 
transferred the document to my laptop and printed it, everything came 
out beautifully (especially the LP bits ;-) ).


Now, do you think we could isolate the difference between how Word was 
set up on my laptop and on my friend's? I wish.


I don't know enough about EPS to really comment on those problems, 
sorry, but did you try printing them? - EPS files may still print 
correctly (on a Postscript printer, of course), even if they do not 
display anything more than a bounding box.


Also, I noticed you said you wanted EPS because of losslessness - PNG is 
also a lossless format, and personally I'd rather work with PNG than EPS 
any day.


Brett


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Re: 2.9.22 eps backend on Windows

[Brett Duncan]

Bertalan Fodor wrote:

Hello

I'm trying to use the eps backend (also by lilypond-book) and it doesn't 
work. I get the following error


Please Help! I'm very frustrated.

Bert


Interpreting music... [1]
Preprocessing graphical objects...
Writing proba1-systems.tex...
Writing proba1-systems.texi...
Layout output to `proba1-1.eps'...
Error: /invalidfont in findfont
Operand stack:
  CenturySchL-Roma   2.19953   CenturySchL-Roma   Font   
CenturySchL-Roma   359549   CenturySchL-Roma   --nostringval--   
CenturySchL-Roma   NewCenturySchlbk-Roman

Execution stack:
  %interp_exit   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   
--nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--   
--nostringval--   --nostringval--   false   1   %stopped_push   1   3   
%oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   --nostringval--   1   3   
%oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   .runexec2   --nostringval--   
--nostringval--   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   
--nostringval--   2   3   %oparray_pop   --nostringval--   3   3   
%oparray_pop   4   3   %oparray_pop   --nostringval--   
--nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   
false   1   %stopped_push   7   4   %oparray_pop   --nostringval--   
--nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   
%array_continue   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   1   -1   1   
--nostringval--   %for_neg_int_continue

Dictionary stack:
  --dict:1122/1686(ro)(G)--   --dict:0/20(G)--   --dict:107/200(L)--   
--dict:17/17(ro)(G)--   --dict:1122/1686(ro)(G)--

Current allocation mode is local
Last OS error: No such file or directory
Current file position is 5781
Converting to `proba1-1.pdf'...GPL Ghostscript 8.50: Unrecoverable 
error, exit code 1
`gs -q-dEPSCrop  -dCompatibilityLevel#1.4  -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -r1200  
-sDEVICE#pdfwrite -sOutputFile#"proba1-1.pdf" -c .setpdfwrite -f 
"proba1-1.eps"' failed (1)


It's not only Windows - I just tried to use 2.9.22 with the EPS backend 
on my G4 Mac, and got this:


Processing `Pray.ly'
Parsing...
Interpreting music... [8][16][19]
Preprocessing graphical objects...
Writing Pray-systems.tex...
Writing Pray-systems.texi...
Layout output to `Pray-1.eps'...
Converting to `Pray-1.pdf'...
`gs -q  -dSAFER   -dEPSCrop  -dCompatibilityLevel=1.4  -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH 
-r1200  -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sOutputFile="Pray-1.pdf" -c .setpdfwrite -f 
"Pray-1.eps"' failed (256)

error: failed files: "Pray.ly"

and when I set the flag for verbose, I get a message error that contains 
lines almost identical to the ones Bertalan posted. I also noticed just 
above those lines this:


Can't find (or can't open) font file c059013l.pfb.
Can't find (or can't open) font file 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/share/ghostscript/8.50/Resource/Font/CenturySchL-Roma.

Can't find (or can't open) font file CenturySchL-Roma.
Querying operating system for font files...
Didn't find this font on the system!
Substituting font NewCenturySchlbk-Roman for CenturySchL-Roma.
Unable to substitute for font.


Brett


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Re: chord name size

[Brett Duncan]

Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:

Depends on your age, eyesight and the type of score too.  For a simple fake
book lead sheet I like things big so that I can read it better in a dark
room at a distance, or at times when I'll have a cheat sheet on the floor at
my feet while performing something I have not fully memorized.  As for the #
symbol I'm using a chord names exceptions list that I can fully customize,
for example I also like to see the tensions 5, b5, #5, 7, 9, b9, #9, 11,
#11, 13, etc. stacked vertically like Hal Leonard Publishing has been doing
for a while now, this reduces the amount of horizontal space needed to show
chords that have a lot of named tensions.  I just unconditionally always use
my exceptions list now which works pretty good.


For scores that I want to have that "well-finished" look (in other
words, that I'll be distributing to others), I also reduce the font size
for chords, but for cheat sheets etc., I agree with Rick - bigger is
better. I also use an exceptions list for chord names which sets the
size and position of accidentals to what I like (the default chord
naming in LP needs to revised IM0) but I hadn't thought of stacking
tensions - thanks for mentioning it Rick!

Brett



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Re: Rhythmic slashes

[Brett Duncan]

Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:

Paul Scott escreveu:

Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:
   

(snip)

Here is a solution, just change the notehead!  (thanks to Brett who 
sent me

the idea)

\paper {
ragged-right = ##t
}

\new Staff \relative c' {

\bar "|:"
\override NoteHead #'style = #'slash
b'4 b b b
|
b4 b b b
\revert NoteHead #'style
\bar ":|"

}
  
I've used that a number of times.  Unfortunately it's a mess when you 
need to transpose the part!


\override staff-position for the note head ; that will solv (part of) 
the problem.


What if you had a rest that looked like a slash? No transposition 
issues, then. No input to MIDI if you have a midi block in your .ly 
file, for that matter. Given the slash is already part of the Feta font, 
I assume it should be possible - I'm just not sure how to do it! Can 
someone explain how to do this, or why it's not possible?


Brett


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Re: Rhythmic slashes

[Brett Duncan]

Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:

Mats,

This is sort of working, but how would I set the thickness property so that
the slash looks more like the "slash" notehead?  Better yet, is there a way
to actually use the slashed note head character instead?  (the slashed note
head looks like most fakebooks, but this beat-slash is too thick and it
bumps into the right measure bar.  Other than that it's working well.

thanks
Rick


I found this works:

\override Rest #'stencil = #ly:percent-repeat-item-interface::beat-slash
\override Rest #'thickness = #'0.48
\override Rest #'slope = #'1.7

What I'm wondering now is how to define a function that lets you input a 
number and produces the slash for that number of beats.


I tried

comp = #(define-music-function (parser location x) ( integer?)
#{
\override Rest #'stencil = #ly:percent-repeat-item-interface::beat-slash
\override Rest #'thickness = #'0.48
\override Rest #'slope = #'1.7

\repeat unfold $x { r4 }

\revert Rest #'stencil
#})

but I'm making a mistake somewhere, as I get this error message:

syntax error, unexpected NUMBER_IDENTIFIER, expecting DIGIT or UNSIGNED

pointing to the $x just after unfold.


Brett


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Re: Constructive Criticism and a Question

[Brett Duncan]

John Mandereau wrote:

Frédéric Chiasson wrote:
  

But to avoid repeating \tuplet functions for long passages with the
same tuplets, we could admit that kind of syntax :

\tuplet 3:2 {c8 d e f g a b c d e d c b a g f e d}

without having one long bracket going through all the notes. But I
understand that you don't want to change that for programming issues. 



It is not possible to determine whether "long" tuplets should be
splitted or not; how then would you determine whether

\tuplet 3:2 {c4 c8 c c4}

should be printed as

|- 3 |
  __
 |   |  |   |
 |   |  |   |
X   X  X   X

or as

|- 3 -| |- 3 -|

 |   |\  |\  |
 |   |   |   |
X   X   X   X

?

In your example,

\set tupletSpannerDuration = #(ly:make-moment 1 4)

can already save from typing \tuplet (\times today) a lot of times.

Cheers,
  
Yes, I was wondering about this too. It seems to me that either you 
still need to have \set tupletSpannerDuration or you need to build the 
tuplet duration into the tuplet function itself, e.g. \tuplet 3:2 2. {c 
c8 c c4} for John's first example, and \tuplet 3:2 4. {c4 c8 c c4} for 
the second. But then this is probably making \tuplet a little more 
complicated than people would like. (unless maybe the duration value is 
optional and can be omitted?)


Just a thought.

Brett

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(there is no opinion so absurd that some philosopher will not express it)

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Re: Constructive Criticism and a Question

[Brett Duncan]

Jonathan Henkelman wrote:

 Han-Wen Nienhuys  lilypond.org> writes:

>> If we are going to worry about seperating the music from the
>> typesetting,
 then
>> it is worth observing that these two are equivalent musically.
>> It doesn't
> No, they aren't. The stresses fall in different places.  In bottom
> example,
 the stress is
> on the 2nd 8th note.
>

 True enough, but it will also depend on the time signature.
 However, we still need to have a default and it seems deciding based
 on the value of the first note is as reasonable a guess as any.  It
 can always be overriden by an experienced user.


I respectfully disagree. In a lot of the music you will see rhythms like

|--3--| |--3--|
|  |\   |  |\
|  ||  |
X  XX  X

but your suggestion of basing the tuplet span on the first note would 
generate


|--3--|
|  |\   |  |\
|  ||  |
X  XX  X

which implies a different emphasis. I would not like to see this as a 
default.


Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote

 \tuplet 6:4 2. { .. } is a lot of numbers. Not very readable IMO.


No argument here - I wasn't advocating a specific syntax, but simply 
raising the possibility that the tuplet's span could be an argument of 
the function. Otherwise, we're simply turning \times into \tuplet 
without really changing anything about its functionality.


My $0.02

Brett
--
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Re: Absolute Beginners

[Brett Duncan]

Hi Manuel,

Here's a couple of things I spotted:

You specify these values with a number after the name of the note: 
"c1" will make a whole note (also called a minim); "d8" an eighth note 
(or quaver), etc.


A minim is a half-note; a whole note is a semi-breve.


(Please note that this is not necessarily the way you are used to name 
the notes)


I think you mean:  "... you are used to naming the notes."


Overall, it looks great!

Brett


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Re: Constructive Criticism and a Question

[Brett Duncan]

Erik Sandberg wrote:

On Monday 25 December 2006 06:32, David Fedoruk wrote:
  

Hello:

I've been watching this discussion or debate. There are two ways to
look at this problem. The first is from a programmer's point of view
where the programmer is experienced with some computer languages,
these days its upper level languages more and more. For these people,
lilypond typesetting code feels comfortable when it is syntactically
correct and when it makes sense in either computer or mathematical
terms. A mathematical algorithm is what they are used to seeing.

The other group has less mathematical knowledge, very little (very
little compared to a programmer working on a major project like
Lilypond) programming knowledge or experience. In all likelihood the
only thing that connects these people is the printed musical score.

At least in part I think these points have already been made. The
question that occurs to me as a novice Lilypond user  (and one who
jumps in the deep end with complex scores!)  is this: How will you
deal with other types of prolongation or compression of notes into one
or more beats or where the composers intentions are clear but they are
not immediately mathematically correct?

The example below is a single bar from a Beethoven Piano Sonata (Opus
31 number 3, 1st mvt. bar 53) in which two more out of the ordinary
examples occur next to each other. You will excuse any mistakes in
coding here, this doesn't render as it should.

upper = \relative c'' {
\clef treble
\key ef \major
\time 3

bf16[d f ef] \times 5/4 d16[ ef f g a] bf32[bf a c bf d c bf a g c g ef]

}

You can see how there are three beams, one for the notes in eaech
beat. The first and second beat are quite clear, but the third one has
eluded me as yet. The score has 12 thirty-second notes beamed together
with  "12" below the note heads.

The printed score is clear to the performer. The Lilypond code I
suspect is far more complex. The only way that 12 thirty-second notes
will fit into one beat is if they are triplets, but in context, they
are not played or heard as triplets.

My only comment in this discussion is that the Lilypond code to
represent this short passage should be as clear as the printed score I
am reading.



try \times 8/12 { ... }

(by default, this will probably display as 12:8 above the notes, which can be 
tweaked to just show 12)


IMHO, this is an argument for a mathematical notation: You must know what you 
are doing to notate the music (i.e., multiplying durations with 8/12), just 
saying that a 12 should be displayed above would make it difficult to 
maintain the .ly code.


  
Here's a different idea: instead of specifying the ratio for a tuplet or 
set of tuplets, what about specifying the duration of a tuplet, and 
letting LP determine what number appears over the beam?


For example, where we now use
   \times 2/3 { a8 b c }
to get a triplet of three quavers in the time of two, instead have
   \tuplet 4 { a8 b c }
LP can calculate the ratio (and hence what should appear over the 
tuplet) from the time given before the {...} and the cumulative time of 
the notes inside the {...}.


This would mean that users do not need to work out the ratio, they just 
need to know how long the tuplet should last. Further to this idea would 
be to allow an internal division inside the {...}, so that multiple 
tuplets could be entered, maybe something like \tuplet 4 { a8 b c ! c4 
a8 ! b8 c4 }. (I've used  !  only for explaining the idea - I'm NOT 
advocating it as the desired syntax.)


This would mean that for the Beethoven snippet in David Fedoruk's post, 
instead of


bf16[d, f ef] \times 4/5 {d16[ ef f g a]} \times 8/12 {bf32[a c bf d c 
bf a g f g ef]}


you would put

bf16[d, f ef] \tuplet 4 { d16 ef f g a ! bf32a c bf d c bf a g f g ef }


Just a thought!

Brett
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Re: Constructive Criticism and a Question

[Brett Duncan]

Rick Hansen (aka RickH) wrote:


David Rogers wrote:
  

Orm Finnendahl wrote:



Am 28. Dezember 2006, 11:30 Uhr (-0800) schrieb David Rogers:
  
bf16[d, f ef] \tuplet 4 { { { d16 ef f } { g a } } { bf32a c bf d c 
  
bf a 
  

g f
g ef } }

The above would generate a parent tuplet with the number "5" and two
sub-tuplets with "3" and "2", followed horizontally by the "12" 
  

tuplet.

If you intend to think of tuplets as collections of notes of the same
duration, the syntax is fine. But what happens, if the elements of the
tuplet contain things of different durations (for example, the first
part of your suggested tuplet is of an quarter duration and the second
half containing the 12 32nds should last a dotted quarter within the
parent "5" tuplet)?
  

In the Beethoven example, Op.31 Nr.3 at bar 53, the 5-let is a
quarter-note duration, and the 12-let is another quarter-note duration.

But this was Rick Hansen's proposal, for how to solve a problem pointed
out by David Fedoruk, and I was only admiring his solution.

David



When the notes in a bracket are of mixed durations then by default no digit
would be generated only the bracket.  If the user wanted a digit on a
mixed-note tuplet they can add the "\tupletNbr x" indicator within that
bracket of notes.

As for summing the durations to match the parent stated "\tuplet x"
duration...  This would not happen, instead durations stated within a
\tuplet structure would be there solely for the purpose of determining the
STYLE of the noteheads being printed.  IOW durations in a known-duration
tuplet contruct would not participate in any further evaluation math-wise of
expired time, just as a convenient way of setting the noteheads.  Because
the true duration of the whole construct has already been stated on the
"\tuplet x" there is no need to validate further, the tuplets total duration
is still whatever they coded it to be at the outset.
  


Hmm, I think I agree with Rick about the nested braces - that seems to 
be more "Lilypond-ish" than my original suggestion.

OTOH, I don't think the situation with mixed durations is really a problem.

For example,

   \tuplet 4 {{ a4 b8 } { c16 b a b8. } { a16 b c b a }}

(using nested brackets, as Rick suggested) should produce a 3 over the 
first and second bracket groups, and a 5 over the third, all based on 
the ratio of the cumulative duration of the notes within the brackets to 
the duration given after \tuplet. (For the first two groups, the ratio 
is 3:2, for the third group of notes, 5:4)


I think the digit on the tuplet bracket SHOULD be generated, regardless 
of what the notes and durations are within the tuplet. I don't like the 
idea that the user could put a number on the bracket that doesn't make 
sense musically - if you have a group of five notes in the time of four, 
then either a "5" should appear, or the ratio "5:4". The only exception 
I can see to this is to be able to suppress the number altogether for 
those situations where the pattern of tuplets is repeated through the 
piece (e.g. Schubert's Impromptu No. 3, Op. 90). So I don't think a 
\tupletNbr function is really necessary. But others may it differently 
to me.


My $0.02 (Australian, so worth even less!)

Brett




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Re: Constructive Criticism and a Question

[Brett Duncan]

Erik Sandberg wrote:

On Thursday 28 December 2006 11:13, Brett Duncan wrote:
  

Erik Sandberg wrote:


On Monday 25 December 2006 06:32, David Fedoruk wrote:
  

Hello:

I've been watching this discussion or debate. There are two ways to
look at this problem. The first is from a programmer's point of view
where the programmer is experienced with some computer languages,
these days its upper level languages more and more. For these people,
lilypond typesetting code feels comfortable when it is syntactically
correct and when it makes sense in either computer or mathematical
terms. A mathematical algorithm is what they are used to seeing.

The other group has less mathematical knowledge, very little (very
little compared to a programmer working on a major project like
Lilypond) programming knowledge or experience. In all likelihood the
only thing that connects these people is the printed musical score.

At least in part I think these points have already been made. The
question that occurs to me as a novice Lilypond user  (and one who
jumps in the deep end with complex scores!)  is this: How will you
deal with other types of prolongation or compression of notes into one
or more beats or where the composers intentions are clear but they are
not immediately mathematically correct?

The example below is a single bar from a Beethoven Piano Sonata (Opus
31 number 3, 1st mvt. bar 53) in which two more out of the ordinary
examples occur next to each other. You will excuse any mistakes in
coding here, this doesn't render as it should.

upper = \relative c'' {
\clef treble
\key ef \major
\time 3

bf16[d f ef] \times 5/4 d16[ ef f g a] bf32[bf a c bf d c bf a g c g
ef]

}

You can see how there are three beams, one for the notes in eaech
beat. The first and second beat are quite clear, but the third one has
eluded me as yet. The score has 12 thirty-second notes beamed together
with  "12" below the note heads.

The printed score is clear to the performer. The Lilypond code I
suspect is far more complex. The only way that 12 thirty-second notes
will fit into one beat is if they are triplets, but in context, they
are not played or heard as triplets.

My only comment in this discussion is that the Lilypond code to
represent this short passage should be as clear as the printed score I
am reading.


try \times 8/12 { ... }

(by default, this will probably display as 12:8 above the notes, which
can be tweaked to just show 12)

IMHO, this is an argument for a mathematical notation: You must know what
you are doing to notate the music (i.e., multiplying durations with
8/12), just saying that a 12 should be displayed above would make it
difficult to maintain the .ly code.
  

Here's a different idea: instead of specifying the ratio for a tuplet or
set of tuplets, what about specifying the duration of a tuplet, and
letting LP determine what number appears over the beam?

For example, where we now use
\times 2/3 { a8 b c }
to get a triplet of three quavers in the time of two, instead have
\tuplet 4 { a8 b c }
LP can calculate the ratio (and hence what should appear over the
tuplet) from the time given before the {...} and the cumulative time of
the notes inside the {...}.

This would mean that users do not need to work out the ratio, they just
need to know how long the tuplet should last. Further to this idea would
be to allow an internal division inside the {...}, so that multiple
tuplets could be entered, maybe something like \tuplet 4 { a8 b c ! c4
a8 ! b8 c4 }. (I've used  !  only for explaining the idea - I'm NOT
advocating it as the desired syntax.)

This would mean that for the Beethoven snippet in David Fedoruk's post,
instead of

bf16[d, f ef] \times 4/5 {d16[ ef f g a]} \times 8/12 {bf32[a c bf d c
bf a g f g ef]}

you would put

bf16[d, f ef] \tuplet 4 { d16 ef f g a ! bf32a c bf d c bf a g f g ef }


Just a thought!



Unfortunately, the number above does not always follow from the duration. 
E.g., the factors 2/3 and 4/6 are mathematically equal, but give different 
numbers. It is probably difficult to define when to use 4/6 and 2/3, 
respectively (e.g., I guess {c8[ c16 c c8]} could have either a 3 or a 6 
above it, depending on context)


  
Yes, you're quite correct - I'd overlooked that. So Rick Hansen's 
suggestion of a tuplet number function would also be necessary,


But given Han-Wen's post:
Frankly, this discussion has wandered off into bikeshed land. We will 
not base typesetting decisions on the form of the \times/\tuplet 
argument, for it is incompatible with using identifiers. 

I guess there's no point in continuing the discussion.


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Scheme Problem

[Brett Duncan]

The following function is an attempt on my part to learn how to create 
such functions, based on what appears in the User Manual. The function 
itself is not really important, just a problem I set for myself. It's 
supposed to take a number as its argument and produce the equivalent 
number of slashes, the idea being to use the slash as a comping symbol, 
and substituting the slash for the normal appearance of a quarter rest.



compFor = #(define-music-function (parser location beats) (number?)
   #{
   \override Rest #'stencil = 
#ly:percent-repeat-item-interface::beat-slash

   \override Rest #'thickness = #'0.48
   \override Rest #'slope = #'1.7
  
   \repeat "unfold" $beats { r4 }
  
   \revert Rest #'stencil

   #})


But when I put

   \compFor #16

into my .ly file, the following error occurs:

syntax error, unexpected NUMBER_IDENTIFIER, expecting DIGIT or UNSIGNED
   \repeat "unfold"
\lilyvartmpb { r4 }


Can someone point out to me where I'm going wrong?

Thanks,

Brett

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Re: Absolute Beginners - Chapter One

[Brett Duncan]

Just a small typo:
If you need, say, an eight-note anacrusis 

should be

   If you need, say, an /eighth/-note anacrusis


Brett

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Re: Constructive Criticism and a Question

[Brett Duncan]

Frédéric Chiasson wrote:
My point when I started this topic was not to change the whole 
definition of the \times function. In fact, I think the function works 
quite well as it is. I was mostly talking about improving the 
"interface" - i.e . the words and the syntax we use to call the 
functions - to make it more intuitive, especially for a 
non-programmer. The \times function was an example among other. I was 
proposing to change it to \tuplet x:y, simply because it is closer to 
the musicians' language (tuplet), and it reflects more the result we 
see and we would write manually (3:2 or 7:5, even if we have 6 
sixteenth-notes for the 7:5 in contemporary music).
The issue that's emerged out of this discussion, apart from the question 
of \times / \tuplet, is that some users (including myself) would like to 
see a more obvious (intuitive?) way of generating *sequences* of 
tuplets. As has been mentioned before, \times 2/3 { a8 a a b b b } 
doesn't produce two triplets, as you might expect, but six notes with a 
single bracket and a "3" over it - to get the desired result, it's 
necessary to add \set tupletSpannerDuration = #(ly:make-moment 1 4). For 
new users especially, this is a bit daunting IMO.


Changing \times x/y to \tuplet y:x may be more intuitive for 
non-programmer musician, but if they still have to use \set 
tupletSpannerDuration = #(ly:make-moment ...), I don't see that you've 
gained much.


For this reason, I think Erik's proposal of a \tupletSequence function 
makes a lot of sense. (Though \tupletSet is shorter to type.  ;-) )


Brett



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Re: Usability Question

[Brett Duncan]

Hi Upro,

based on what others have contributed here, especially about voiceFive, 
here's my attempt to reproduce what appeared in the JPEG. It's pretty 
close - there is the small matter of the slant on the second set of 
beamed notes, which Carl already noted. The last slur also seems to end 
in a rather high position. I'm pretty sure both of these things can be 
adjusted, but others can probably come up with the right answers for 
those faster than I can (assuming you want to change them).


I for one am glad you asked your questions - I've learned some useful 
things from the ensuing discussion!


Brett


%---

\version "2.10.12"
#(set-global-staff-size 17)

\header {
   title = \markup \center-align  \italic { "Sonata 1ma a Violino Solo 
senza Basso di J. S. Bach"}

}

\include "deutsch.ly"

voiceFive = { \voiceOne \shiftOnn }

melody = \new Staff  {
   \time 4/4
   \key d \minor
   \clef treble
   \relative c' {   
   \voiceOne

   <<
   \new Voice="3" { \voiceThree b'4}
   \new Voice="5" { \voiceFive \stemUp  d,}
   \new Voice="4" { \voiceFour g,}
   { \tieUp g''4 ~ }
   >>
   \oneVoice g32[ f( es d c b a b64 g)]
   \voiceThree
   <<
   \new Voice="1" { \voiceOne c4}
   \new Voice="2" { \voiceFour a,4}
   { g'8 \tieDown fis8 ~}
   >>  
   \oneVoice fis32[ e!( d e fis g a c64 b)]

   \voiceThree
   <<
   \new Voice="1" { \voiceOne fis'4}
   \new Voice="2" { \voiceTwo d,8 s }
   { \tieDown c'8[ ~ c32( d64 c b32 c] }
   >>
   \oneVoice   \once \override Script #'avoid-slur = #'inside 
c16.[\trill b64 c d16 a])

   }
}
\score {
   <<
   \melody
   >>
   \layout  {
   }
}
\paper {
#(set-paper-size "a4")
}


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Re: Usability Question

[Brett Duncan]

Mats Bengtsson wrote:

Brett Duncan wrote:


   <<
   \new Voice="3" { \voiceThree b'4}

There's no point in naming the contexts here. You could save some
typing by simply saying
\new Voice { \voiceThree b'4}

Thanks Mats - I'd followed what Rutger had posted, and assumed that the 
contexts had to be named, it's useful to know that's not necessary.
For the beam slant, it's tedious but possible to manually specify the 
position of the
end points of the beam, see the example called beam-control.ly in the 
Tips and Tricks

document.

Actually, it's not really that tedious -the override is pretty 
straightforward and easy to understand. It took me very little time to 
look at the example and apply the override.


OTOH, adjusting the final slur to match what was in the JPEG *was* 
tedious, and I noticed that in the example in Tips and Tricks it points 
out that any change in the horizontal spacing will also require 
repositioning the slur.


I'm going to play with that a little more, to make sure I really 
understand what it's doing. Incidentally, is there a way to extract the 
control points of a slur automatically generated by LP? I tried 
\displayMusic but it didn't tell me anything about the control points.


Brett




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Re: Usability Question

[Brett Duncan]

Bertalan Fodor wrote:

A visual slur tweaking tool exists (see in the archives.) Have you tried that?
I have now - and it's great! Bertalan, have you considered including 
this in/with LilyPondTool?



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Re: Slide to/from nowhere

[Brett Duncan]

colin kirkham wrote:

Hi,

I have been trying to find the best way to notate a slide that has no 
relationship to another note. Reading through the archive there appears 
so be some discussion on the subject but nothing definitive.


I have tried two approaches, hidden notes and postscript markup. Hidden 
notes gives the best appearance and doesn't need to be changed dependent 
on the note and bar placement, but has a distinct disadvantage in that 
the hidden note still counts. The postscript markup is really fiddly 
however and needs tweaking every time (at least the way I have done it!).


Is it possible to create a second voice that has the glissando and two 
hidden notes (pre and post) and just overlay that on a single bar rather 
than needing to enter loads of rests for the full length of the piece 
otherwise?


Any other suggestions that people have would be gratefully received.

Thanks,



You certainly could do what you want with a second voice and hidden 
notes, something like


<< {c1} \\ { \hideNotes c2.\glissando c'4 \unHideNotes } >>


OTOH, you can do without the second voice by hiding one note but also 
adjusting the durations:


c1*63/64\glissando \hideNotes c'64 \unHideNotes


HTH,
Brett Duncan




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Output other than PDF

[Brett Duncan]

I'm using the Mac OS X binary of Lilypond (2.6.1) and loving it. But how 
do I get the output as something other than PDF? Specifically, I want 
PNG, but PS would also be useful. Obviously I can't use the GUI to 
achieve this, so I'm assuming (hoping) that there is a way to invoke 
Lilypond via the command line in Terminal that will let me specify the 
output format I want. Can anyone clear this up for me?


TIA,

Brett Duncan


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Re: Output other than PDF

[Brett Duncan]

Erik Sandberg wrote:

On Saturday 20 August 2005 09.24, Brett Duncan wrote:


I'm using the Mac OS X binary of Lilypond (2.6.1) and loving it. But how
do I get the output as something other than PDF? Specifically, I want
PNG, but PS would also be useful. Obviously I can't use the GUI to
achieve this, so I'm assuming (hoping) that there is a way to invoke
Lilypond via the command line in Terminal that will let me specify the
output format I want. Can anyone clear this up for me?



See chapter 5, 'Running LilyPond'



Sorry, that doesn't help - I'm using the GUI application on Mac OS X, 
not a version that runs from the command line.


The ReadMe file that came with the installer provides a shell script 
that uses Python to call Lilypond, and I've been able to use this in 
conjunction with jEdit, but I don't know how I would modify this script 
to get different output formats.


Brett


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