Re: organ - off topic

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Some organs have a toy stop emulating bagpipes, which is a single lever that 
activates two drone pipes (reeds): they are either on continuously, or off. And 
organ tuners commonly use a key weight to depress individual keys while they 
are tuning, if they have to tune without an assistant. There are contemporary 
organ pieces that use multiple key weights for special effects. 

> On 1 Oct 2020, at 10:37, J Martin Rushton  
> wrote:
> 
> "the church built around many organs" - I like your priorities!  I got in 
> trouble once for similarly suggesting that the purpose of a cathedral was to 
> support the bell tower (we were in the ringing chamber at the time). :-o
> 
> On 01/10/2020 10:02, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:
>> Hi Gianmaria,
>> Am 01.10.20 um 10:32 schrieb Gianmaria Lari:
>>> Sorry if I ask this question here. I do it as usual because I have a lot of 
>>> consideration for the people who write on this group and I'm sure someone 
>>> can help me.
>>> 
>>> I'm curious to know if a pipe organ (mechanical) can have a sustain pedal 
>>> and a sostenuto pedal like a piano. I had a look online but I have not been 
>>> able to find it.
>> Not that I know of.
>> Or, to be more precise:
>>  * The _soft_ pedal (left, una corda) does indeed have a rough
>>equivalent on many organs, namely the "Schweller":
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swell_box
>>  * The _sostenuto_ pedal (middle) can, as far as I know, only be faked
>>using mechanical devices holding down some keys. And of course, keys
>>may be stuck also without the player intending it.
>>  * The _damper_ pedal (right, sustain) is built-in to most organs by
>>virtue of the acoustics of the church build around many organs,
>>drowning the music in a sea of lingering pitches ;-)
>> Lukas
> 
> -- 
> J Martin Rushton MBCS
> 

Re: Humdrum **kern and LilyPond

[Frauke Jurgensen]

A two-way converter would interest me a lot! As I said, my converter is quite 
basic (dare I confess it’s a shell script), because it’s for a very specific 
repertoire, so it makes lots of assumptions as a short-cut.

> On 30 Jun 2020, at 21:45, Urs Liska  wrote:
> 
> Am Dienstag, den 30.06.2020, 17:28 +0200 schrieb Jacques Menu:
>> Hello folks,
>> 
>> I’ve been wondering : is Humdrum **kern in wide use, 
> 
> I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know it is *in use*,
> and I'd be interested in any integration with LilyPond. Craig Sapp has
> - not that long ago - written a kern-to-MEI converter, and there is the
> VerovioHumdrum Viewer at https://verovio.humdrum.org/
> 
>> and do you know of any work or application involving both Humdrum
>> **kern and LilyPond?
>> 
> 
> I'm not sure about the state of affairs, but Jan-Peter has at least
> started a proof-of-concept of a two-way kern-lilypond-kern converter.
> He may not be currently monitoring the mailing lists too closely,
> though.
> 
> Urs
> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> JM
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: Humdrum **kern and LilyPond

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Hi Jacques,

Two main ways: 
1. Direct entry one spine at a time, and then the assemble tool, or 
2. MIDI keyboard entry via another notation programme, then conversion MIDI to 
Humdrum, then run through a filter program that predicts the correct spelling 
of enharmonic equivalents, then correction of same by hand. 

I threw a big party when my main corpus (nearly 500 files) was encoded.

Cheers,
Frauke 


> On 30 Jun 2020, at 19:25, Frauke Jurgensen  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 19:09 Jacques Menu,  wrote:
> Hello Frauke,
> 
> How do you produce the Humdrum data sets?
> 
> JM
> 
> > Le 30 juin 2020 à 19:04, Frauke Jurgensen  a écrit :
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I use Humdrum a lot, and have written a basic hum2lily conversion tool, 
> > which I am using to prepare my edition of the Buxheim Organ Book. It’s 
> > quite specialised for my particular application, and not terribly 
> > sophisticated at the moment.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Frauke
> > 
> >> On 30 Jun 2020, at 16:28, Jacques Menu  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hello folks,
> >> 
> >> I’ve been wondering : is Humdrum **kern in wide use, and do you know of 
> >> any work or application involving both Humdrum **kern and LilyPond?
> >> 
> >> Thanks!
> >> 
> >> JM
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> 

Re: Humdrum **kern and LilyPond

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Hi,

I use Humdrum a lot, and have written a basic hum2lily conversion tool, which I 
am using to prepare my edition of the Buxheim Organ Book. It’s quite 
specialised for my particular application, and not terribly sophisticated at 
the moment.

Cheers,
Frauke

> On 30 Jun 2020, at 16:28, Jacques Menu  wrote:
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> I’ve been wondering : is Humdrum **kern in wide use, and do you know of any 
> work or application involving both Humdrum **kern and LilyPond?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> JM
> 
> 

Re: Lilypond on OS X Catalina

[Frauke Jurgensen]

What a very, very silly situation, and I feel for all those who are involved at 
ground level in trying to sort it out. I switched from a Debian laptop to a Mac 
one this summer, because I need to be able to use some proprietary stuff that’s 
not available, and I naïvely assumed that I could be happy as long as I had my 
command line. Because I clearly walk about with my head in the clouds, I had no 
idea until seeing this thread (and some random warnings in Lilypond, of 
course), that there was going to be an issue. I’ll be following closely from 
now on...

> On 18 Oct 2019, at 18:15, Werner LEMBERG  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Do you believe that it is impermissible for us to offer a binary
>> compiled using XCode on lilypond.org?  [...]
> 
> AFAIK, the limitation is only *building* on Mac OS hardware, not
> *distributing*.
> 
> 
>Werner
> 
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Re: Is lilypond really suitable for composing?

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Note that I pointed out specifically the play-back feature, which the
previous poster said they were relying on to tell them if they had
translated to notation correctly. To build the connection between notation
and ear, it's better to be making the noises yourself, not getting a
computer to do it for you. Your procedural memory needs to be trained.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2018, 21:42 Flaming Hakama by Elaine, <
ela...@flaminghakama.com> wrote:

>
>>> From: Tom Cloyd <tomcloydm...@gmail.com>
>> To: Frauke Jurgensen <frauk...@gmail.com>
>> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:24:48 -0700
>> Subject: Re: Is lilypond really suitable for composing?
>> 100% in agreement. Developing that inner ear is immeasurably valuable,
>> but it takes effort, and that effort is made only when there's motivation.
>> Having only oneself to rely on provides the context for that motivation.
>> (HA! Can you guess MY occupation?)
>>
>
>
> I call hogwash.  Developing inner ear has nothing to do with using pencil
> & paper vs using notation software.  A more meaningful distinction is
> whether you are composing by ear or not:
>
> * If you are plucking out every note and chord at the piano, then notating
> the ones you like with pencil & paper (or into notation software), you are
> NOT developing your inner ear.
> * If you come up with all the notes in your head and enter them directly
> into notation software (or on paper), then you are are using your inner ear.
>
>
> I agree that the processes of composition, arranging/orchestration and
> engraving are distinct, and should be approached as such.  And I agree that
> developing your inner ear is crucial.  But you can do all of that with the
> help of notation software, or not.
>
>
> David Elaine Alt
> 415 . 341 .4954   "Confusion is
> highly underrated"
> ela...@flaminghakama.com
> skype: flaming_hakama
> Producer ~ Composer ~ Instrumentalist
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Re: Is lilypond really suitable for composing?

[Frauke Jurgensen]

I would agree with those who counsel paper and pencil for the compositional
process itself. I would also argue that developing the link between
notation and your inner ear is extremely helpful if you're going to use
notation, and that software with playback features can be counterproductive
in getting people to develop that link. I ban my students from using
notation software in first year, at least, and strongly discourage it among
more advanced students.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2018, 07:38 Henning Hraban Ramm,  wrote:

> I as a singer/songwriter with limited notational skills also use pen and
> staff paper for the first draft(s) but then need a tool that lets me hear
> if I got the rhythm right. (Even if that’s always a matter of
> interpretation and may change in every verse.)
> And as a quality aware typesetter and a programmer I just love LilyPond.
> But if I’m trying several rhythmic variants (syncopes, triplets), because
> I often don’t know what it is exactly what I hear in my head, it’s a
> tedious approach to e.g. change several places and maybe voices from
> syncopation to tuplets and back, or is it a timing change... Some of my
> songs are quite irregular, but I want proper sheets.
>
> Greetlings, Hraban
> ---
> fiëé visuëlle
> Henning Hraban Ramm
> http://www.fiee.net
>
>
> Am 2018-03-23 um 04:34 schrieb Tom Cloyd :
>
> > I have always found that nothing beats plain pencil and sheets of staff
> paper, until I have the basic piece fairly complete. For me, it's clearly
> faster to make even a second draft on paper than to move at that point to
> LP and continue from there. I consider fast "hand writing" on staff paper
> to be a basic composing skill, long used by those who come before us.
> >
> > Working this way, alterations are so much easier, in the initial stages.
> Later, I find the reverse to be true. I do love getting to the point where
> it's time to produce an actual engraved score, but revisions certainly do
> continue after that.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > ~
> >
> > “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons
> exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.” ~ Neil Gaiman
>
>
>
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Re: [OT] Linux Users

[Frauke Jurgensen]

I do! Plain TeX and LaTeX.

On 18 Nov 2017 7:29 am, "Brett M. Gilio"  wrote:

How many Linux users are out there in the Lilypond community? Do any of
you use other type-setting software such as LaTeX or Csound rather than
graphical tools?


BMG

--
Brett M. Gilio
B.S. Biological Sciences
B.M. Music Composition
http://www.brettgilio.com/


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Re: Counterpoint (was: request for programming advice)

[Frauke Jurgensen]

In short, yes, such things exist, though not in Lilypond. I am a
computational musicologist that collaborates in developing tools for
analysing counterpoint. We've got tools like this to use in Humdrum or
Music21. I think the Lilypond implementation would not be trivial (as Urs
says), but I'll talk to one of my colleagues who is a much better
programmer and see what he says.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:

>
>
> Am 07.11.2016 um 13:21 schrieb bart deruyter:
> > On a sidenote (perhaps for a different topic), in Musescore there is
> > the possibility to create plugins which provide harmony checks,
> > someone also did a plugin for a previous Musescore version which
> > checked only first species counterpoint.
> >
> > I know lilypond's first purpose is creating sheet music, not composing
> > music, but are there snippets of scheme or libraries around which
> > could do the same?
> >
> > I think, for people who study counterpoint and voice leading, or any
> > other rule-set in music, it would be very interesting to have a an
> > option to check if they've followed the rules. In my case I have no
> > teacher, can't afford private lessons, so I have to figure it out on
> > my own without any way to check if I'm actually correct in
> > interpreting the rules and executing the exercises.
> >
>
> I don't know if any code for this or similar purposes is already around
> (I suspect not, otherwise you'd have got a reply), but I think from the
> organizational POV it should be pretty easy to write something like
> that. Basically it would work similar to the part combiner: take two (or
> more) music expressions, perform the calculation and produce some
> output. I don't immediately see how the actual content checks would have
> to be implemented, but the infrastructure should be striaghtforward.
>
> I can see different ways to approach it: one could have a function that
> simply performs the checks and prints out the results to the console, or
> it could actually modify the music expressions in a way that the results
> are printed directly in the score (e.g. coloring or other visible hints).
> In a similar way one could also write functions for harmonic analysis.
>
> Probably the actual implementation is not all that trivial, and I
> wouldn't start working on it. But I think it would make a good
> openLilyLib package, and if someone is interested in the topic and has
> the necessary Scheme skills I'd be happy to help with the openLilyLib
> part of things.
>
> Urs
>
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Re: OT: high-precision tuner app

[Frauke Jurgensen]

The reference pitch wasn't standardised until quite late in history, and
there were many local variations (some related to organ pitch). If you were
a composer writing in a place with a low pitch standard, you might write
the parts higher on paper. Thus Purcell's theatrical music (female roles
sung by women) looks high on paper. Many older modern editions transcribe
it transposed down a tone, but now, it's more common to assume that you've
got a historically-informed ensemble using lower pitch (392 or 415,
frequently). These modern "baroque" pitch standards provide a happy medium
for copies of wind instruments, and correspond to a  harpsichord with a
sliding transposer going down 1 or 2 semitones from 440 (same goes, the
other way, for modern "Venetian" pitch). 400 is a great pitch for lots of
music, but not so convenient for the standardisation of modern historical
instruments. Hope this helps! Mobile phone not so convenient for typing
detailed explanations!
On 25 May 2016 15:28, "Kieren MacMillan" 
wrote:

> Hi Johan,
>
> > But my question was: Why are they "almost unsingable" in the original
> > pitch? Did the human voice get higher since?
>
> For centuries, women weren’t allowed to sing in church. So men and boys
> had to cover all parts, including the higher ones. Although boy sopranos
> and altos have impressive ranges, female sopranos and altos have a slightly
> higher general range: c’’' is generally the top of even the most
> spectacular boy soprano voice, but (e.g.) the “Queen of the Night” aria
> extends up to f’’’.
>
> Best,
> Kieren.
> 
>
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
>
>
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Re: Unknown marking in Roman print (1710)

[Frauke Jurgensen]

On my phone, it looks like a blobby lower-case t, which makes sense in
context.
On 21 May 2016 15:06, "Richard Shann"  wrote:

> Attached is a bit of an early 18th print (*) using movable type - does
> anyone on the list know what the sign that looks like an E is?
>
> Richard
> (*)
> http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/423684
>
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Re: Chords and what they mean

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Speaking as a theorist here: while there are automatic chord analysis
functions in many notation programs, in my experience, they are all not yet
sufficiently aware of context (upon which a harmonic analysis is heavily
dependent) and analysis style. It's quite easy to label chords as to the
pure vertical content, but such labeling is going to be meaningless without
the context. Others have gone into the problem of assuming enharmonic
equivalence and labeling  as Em#5, so I won't, but I'll add that if
the G is the bottom note, then in much of the music I deal with, you can
safely assume that the C and E do not have harmonic function and are
ornamental notes, or that the entire simultaneity is of a decorative rather
than functional nature. Explaining functional harmony to a computer is a
bit more difficult than labeling the content of a simultaneity. There are
various approaches in computational musicology, and I'd be happy to find
some links if people are sufficiently interested.

As for the 15th century, while chordal analysis in the post-Rameau,
functional sense is a bit silly, there's quite a lot of mileage to be found
in examining successions of simultaneities. It's my special field, as a
matter of fact...the usual software to help with analysis of this sort is
Humdrum or music21. I don't know how many of the other people involved with
those are in this group, but since a bunch of them use LilyPond, they may
yet wander into this thread!

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 2:39 PM, BB  wrote:

> Can you really feed some notes to Lilypond and it tells you the name of
> the chord? A kind of reverse chord finder? I have not found in the manual.
>
> Is'nt the composer the person to define the desired sound in defining
> notes and chord colours?
>
> Again: There is not just one single name for an essamble of more than
> three notes. And even with three notes there are inversions possible. A c
> chord usually is , with c the lowest note and g the highest. What's
> with ? It is  Em#5 or C/E - you have the choice. And  is C/G
> or Em#5/G. Now do the same with 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, ... note chords.
>
>
> On 18.09.2015 09:10, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015, Blöchl Bernhard wrote:
>
> I tried to make clear that there is not just a single correct name for a
> chord. That is only true for the simplest chords of our simple original folk
>
> When someone enters a set of notes and asks LilyPond to print the chord
> name, there's such a thing as a wrong answer, even if there may also be
> more than one answer you would call correct.  LilyPond has to print
> something and it would be preferable that it prints one of the correct
> answers.  What rules should LilyPond follow to determine what it prints?
>
>
>
>
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Re: Mensural notation: 2 questions

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Thanks, I was unaware of Lukas Pietsch's work (I'm rather an occasional
lilypond user, usually under a lot of time pressure when I finally get to
it). I'll go check it out!

I don't particularly mean modern notation in different scalings (the target
audience for this particular repertoire is likely to prefer full values,
although half might be an option); more different stages of editing: with
or without certain ficta rules implemented, for example, or different
hybrids among old and modern notation. Part of the project involves organ
tablature. I made macros for this for MusixTeX a while ago, and haven't yet
got round to investigating lilypond options. At the moment, I've cobbled
together a little program that can read **kern input and give functional,
if not terribly pretty, lilypond output, but I think I need to figure out
far more precisely what I actually need at the end to think constructively
about the best way of getting there, if you know what I mean.

Frauke

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Graham King lilyp...@tremagi.org.uk
wrote:

  On Sat, 2015-05-16 at 15:38 +0100, Frauke Jurgensen wrote:

 I'm working on a bigger project that may involve generating multiple
 versions in different types of notation from the same source file;


 If by this you mean modern notation in full note values, half note values,
 etc. I have a solution.  It's a bit big to post on the list, and I don't
 have anywhere to host it reliably at the moment (It uses multiple files, so
 it's not a snippet; maybe it's a candidate for openLilyLib - I should check
 with Urs), so if you're interested let me know and I'll email it to you
 off-list.  It also includes (as markup to the modern editions) all the
 mensuration and proportion combinations I've needed so far.  And it
 generates midi output with the mensuration and proportion correctly
 observed.

 I hope you're also aware of the excellent work that Lukas Pietsch has been
 doing, improving lilypond support of various sorts of early notation,
 including mensural notation.  There is an old version at
 http://lukas-pietsch.de/Music/ and back in about February there was some
 activity on lilypond-devel indicating that an updated version might be
 integrated into lilypond itself.  If that happens, it will be a great
 advance.

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Re: Mensural notation: 2 questions

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Ah, thanks! That makes perfect sense. If I understand correctly, it would,
however, mean inputting everything in halved note values? That might get
messy, once ligatures are involved...

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Simon Albrecht simon.albre...@mail.de
wrote:

 Am 16.05.2015 um 16:38 schrieb Frauke Jurgensen:

 Yes, some decades ago (i.e. when Apel was writing), it was common to
 transcribe mensural music at a value reduction of 4:1 (i.e. 3/4 for
 Circle); now, 3/2 is a more common transcription level, and most specialist
 performers prefer to read either from original note values (if
 transcribed), or from original notation, if the manuscript isn't filled
 with errors like the examples I'm currently dealing with. I'm working on a
 bigger project that may involve generating multiple versions in different
 types of notation from the same source file; from that point of view, it
 would be more convenient if the mensural sign was more closely attached to
 the meaning.

 In case you are interested in barlines – which after all is authentic for
 ‘partitur’ scores – you might want to use \scaleDurations to get the right
 combination of mensural time signature and printed note values.

 HTH, Simon

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Re: Mensural notation: 2 questions

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Yes, some decades ago (i.e. when Apel was writing), it was common to
transcribe mensural music at a value reduction of 4:1 (i.e. 3/4 for
Circle); now, 3/2 is a more common transcription level, and most specialist
performers prefer to read either from original note values (if
transcribed), or from original notation, if the manuscript isn't filled
with errors like the examples I'm currently dealing with. I'm working on a
bigger project that may involve generating multiple versions in different
types of notation from the same source file; from that point of view, it
would be more convenient if the mensural sign was more closely attached to
the meaning. In the meantime, at least I can get the symbol, so thanks for
that!

Thanks for the point about the clefs! Now I know why it works.

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net wrote:

 My understanding is that the Mensural time signatures are simply mapped to
 a convenient, similar modern signature.  Thus what we now refer to a
 common time (4/4) maps to a broken circle, which it resembles.  Since
 there are no bar lines in mensural music, the actual time signature is
 pretty much irrelevant when setting music.  FWIW, Apel says that ancient
 circle time (tempus perfectum) maps to modern 3/4 time.

 Under 1.1.3, Clef, the Notation Reference tells us that Clef names
 containing non-alphabetic characters must be enclosed in quotes.

 --
 Phil Holmes


 - Original Message - From: Frauke Jurgensen
 To: LilyPond User Group
 Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 12:45 PM
 Subject: Mensural notation: 2 questions



 Hello all,


 I suspect I'm just being a bit thick...typesetting some mensural notation,
 and having an issue with the mensural signs/time sigs. It looks like the
 definitions of these in terms of modern time signatures are in half values;
 e.g., Circle maps on to 3/2, when it should map on to 3/1.


 My second issue is that lilypond initially couldn't seem to find any of
 the various mensural clefs that have a number on the end. I managed to make
 it work by enclosing the clef name in double quotes, but am not sure why
 that worked.


 Cheers,

 Frauke




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Re: Mensural notation: 2 questions

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Thanks, I will look into that! I'm also interested in the rest placement
function.

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net wrote:

 I've been doing something similar with madrigals from around 1590.  You
 will likely find tags useful, to identify where you need to use different
 notation for modern and ancient music.  If you can't see how this works,
 please let me know: I don't have time right now to give examples.

 I also have a function kindly created by David Kastrup that allows a rest
 to be placed on a non-standard staff line in mensural music, but the normal
 staff line in modern.  Let me know if you're interested.

 --
 Phil Holmes


 - Original Message - From: Frauke Jurgensen
 To: Phil Holmes
 Cc: LilyPond User Group
 Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 3:38 PM
 Subject: Re: Mensural notation: 2 questions



 Yes, some decades ago (i.e. when Apel was writing), it was common to
 transcribe mensural music at a value reduction of 4:1 (i.e. 3/4 for
 Circle); now, 3/2 is a more common transcription level, and most specialist
 performers prefer to read either from original note values (if
 transcribed), or from original notation, if the manuscript isn't filled
 with errors like the examples I'm currently dealing with. I'm working on a
 bigger project that may involve generating multiple versions in different
 types of notation from the same source file; from that point of view, it
 would be more convenient if the mensural sign was more closely attached to
 the meaning. In the meantime, at least I can get the symbol, so thanks for
 that!


 Thanks for the point about the clefs! Now I know why it works.



 On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Phil Holmes m...@philholmes.net wrote:

 My understanding is that the Mensural time signatures are simply mapped to
 a convenient, similar modern signature.  Thus what we now refer to a
 common time (4/4) maps to a broken circle, which it resembles.  Since
 there are no bar lines in mensural music, the actual time signature is
 pretty much irrelevant when setting music.  FWIW, Apel says that ancient
 circle time (tempus perfectum) maps to modern 3/4 time.

 Under 1.1.3, Clef, the Notation Reference tells us that Clef names
 containing non-alphabetic characters must be enclosed in quotes.

 --
 Phil Holmes


 - Original Message - From: Frauke Jurgensen
 To: LilyPond User Group
 Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 12:45 PM
 Subject: Mensural notation: 2 questions



 Hello all,


 I suspect I'm just being a bit thick...typesetting some mensural notation,
 and having an issue with the mensural signs/time sigs. It looks like the
 definitions of these in terms of modern time signatures are in half values;
 e.g., Circle maps on to 3/2, when it should map on to 3/1.


 My second issue is that lilypond initially couldn't seem to find any of
 the various mensural clefs that have a number on the end. I managed to make
 it work by enclosing the clef name in double quotes, but am not sure why
 that worked.


 Cheers,

 Frauke





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Re: Mensural notation: 2 questions

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Thank you, that first thing worked perfectly.

At the moment, I still have the parts in score (to check they're all at
least the same length, which is a feature sadly missing in some of the
manuscripts I'm dealing with). I'm bullying the ligatures into submission
(such as when the second semibreve of a COP needs to be doubled to complete
the perfection) using, e.g., \[ a1 b1*2/1 \] . This appears to work for the
output I need just now, but I haven't yet considered the implications,
should I wish to return to modern notation (at 1:1 note values).
 .

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:42 PM, k...@aspodata.se wrote:

 Frauke:
  I suspect I'm just being a bit thick...typesetting some mensural
 notation,

 Nice to meet another person like interested!

  and having an issue with the mensural signs/time sigs. It looks like the
  definitions of these in terms of modern time signatures are in half
 values;
  e.g., Circle maps on to 3/2, when it should map on to 3/1.

 Yes, that is the usual we want quarter notes mindset.
 Use something like:

  % for the shown mensuration symbol:
  \set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(3 . 2)

  % for the actual bar length:
  \time 3/1

  My second issue is that lilypond initially couldn't seem to find any of
 the
  various mensural clefs that have a number on the end.
 ...

 As in mensuration sign + proportion, don't know to handle that.
 Perhaps something like:

  \set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(3 . 2)
  \time 3/1
  % some magic things to make two time signs to be shown
  \once\override Staff.TimeSignature #'style = #'single-digit
  \time 2/1

 Regards,
 /Karl Hammar

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Mensural notation: 2 questions

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Hello all,

I suspect I'm just being a bit thick...typesetting some mensural notation,
and having an issue with the mensural signs/time sigs. It looks like the
definitions of these in terms of modern time signatures are in half values;
e.g., Circle maps on to 3/2, when it should map on to 3/1.

My second issue is that lilypond initially couldn't seem to find any of the
various mensural clefs that have a number on the end. I managed to make it
work by enclosing the clef name in double quotes, but am not sure why that
worked.

Cheers,
Frauke
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Re: Oboe advise needed - woodwind diagrams

[Frauke Jurgensen]

I don't see an attached diagram? Many oboes do have a LH F, which is a
little knobbly one sort of on top of the others. If I could see it, I'll
take a look.

Since your email is continental, I assume you're looking for Conservatoire
key system. I can help with that.


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Wim van Dommelen m...@wimvd.nl wrote:

 Hi,

 I am looking at some of the woodwind diagrams, redesigning the clarinet
 part and if possible trying to judge on correctness of the others.

 In the Oboe diagram I see a left-hand key labeled F, but it is placed a
 little bit strange on top of the others. Comparing with pictures on the
 Internet doesn't help me that much. As I am not a hoboist, can somebody who
 is take a look at this. I generated diagrams with (also attached):

 \version 2.16.0

 % informational output to the default log-file:
 #(print-keys 'oboe)

\score {
   \relative c' {
 \textLengthOn
 c^\markup {
\center-column {
   Oboe - all keys
  \woodwind-diagram   #'oboe
  #'()
   } }
 s s
 f^\markup {
\center-column {
   Oboe lh f-key
  \woodwind-diagram   #'oboe
  #'((cc . ())
  (lh . (f))
  (rh .
 (banana)))
   } }
  }
}

 Also a right-hand banana key is shown. Is that correct? and if so, is
 that the name of that key?

 Any Obo-player who can guide me?

 Regards,
 Wim.







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Re: Oboe advise needed - woodwind diagrams

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Right, well, the LH F is correct, though its placement looks a little
weird. Regarding the universality, the problem is that there are several
key systems in general use. North America and the Continent tend to use the
conservatoire system, and the UK uses the thumbplate system. Some
manufacturers build hybrid oboes that accomodate both systems. That diagram
looks a bit like a thumbplate to me, though it does appear to have one (but
not both) of the right hand first-finger octave keys, which I think the
thumbplate doesn't generally have (I play conservatoire, so don't know the
thumbplate configuration very well). I'll try to find some diagrams that
show both, for comparison.


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Wim van Dommelen m...@wimvd.nl wrote:

 I didn't attached a diagram, just the .ly file to generate it. Now the
 result is attached in .png, so you should see that. It shows you two
 layout, first one is with all keys, the second one with the F and
 banana key pressed.

 Actually my question is world-wide because it is LilyPond-wide. These
 diagrams are produced by LilyPond, I'm in the process of re-designing the
 Clarinet diagrams, making them complete, removing some of the problems. And
 in that process I also generated all the others and wondered at this.

 Regards,
 Wim.



 On 13 May 2013, at 15:34 , Frauke Jurgensen wrote:

 I don't see an attached diagram? Many oboes do have a LH F, which is a
 little knobbly one sort of on top of the others. If I could see it, I'll
 take a look.

 Since your email is continental, I assume you're looking for Conservatoire
 key system. I can help with that.


 On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Wim van Dommelen m...@wimvd.nl wrote:

 Hi,

 I am looking at some of the woodwind diagrams, redesigning the clarinet
 part and if possible trying to judge on correctness of the others.

 In the Oboe diagram I see a left-hand key labeled F, but it is placed a
 little bit strange on top of the others. Comparing with pictures on the
 Internet doesn't help me that much. As I am not a hoboist, can somebody who
 is take a look at this. I generated diagrams with (also attached):

 \version 2.16.0

 % informational output to the default log-file:
 #(print-keys 'oboe)

\score {
   \relative c' {
 \textLengthOn
 c^\markup {
\center-column {
   Oboe - all keys
  \woodwind-diagram   #'oboe
  #'()
   } }
 s s
 f^\markup {
\center-column {
   Oboe lh f-key
  \woodwind-diagram   #'oboe
  #'((cc . ())
  (lh .
 (f))
  (rh .
 (banana)))
   } }
  }
}

 Also a right-hand banana key is shown. Is that correct? and if so, is
 that the name of that key?

 Any Obo-player who can guide me?

 Regards,
 Wim.







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Re: problem with OS X 10.6.7 and Lily-PDFs

[Frauke Jurgensen]

This has happened to me in the past, and the problem goes away
completely with a re-boot.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Jan-Peter Voigt jp.vo...@gmx.de wrote:
 Hello James,

 thanks for your reply.
 With the ats-rebuild still some things aren't right. If I randomly pick and
 print a page out of my current work with preview, there are still some
 things bad: The time-signature is still in some other font and the footer is
 mashed up onto the page.
 If I print the same page with skim, everything is fine. (thats the way, I
 will do from now on ;-) )

 cheers,
 Jan-Peter


 On 31.03.2011 23:43, James Lowe wrote:

 hello,

 James.

 On 31 Mar 2011, at 22:08, Patrick Karlpck...@mac.com  wrote:

 Message: 3
 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:21:09 +0200
 From: Jan-Peter Voigtjp.vo...@gmx.de
 Subject: problem with OS X 10.6.7 and Lily-PDFs
 To: lilypond-user Mailinglistlilypond-user@gnu.org
 Message-ID:4d9463a5.1000...@gmx.de
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 Hello List,

 I installed Mac OSX 10.6.7 and now am unable to print my beautiful
 sheets from my mac! It seems to be related to a font problem in the last
 security update: http://www.tidbits.com/article/12078
 Luckily I work on Ubuntu and can print from there ...

 Sorry for this off topic message, but I know, there are a lot mac users
 in this community ;-)

 Cheers,
 Jan-Peter

 I also have this problem with Preview 5.0.3 under OSX 10.6.7.  Missing
 are noteheads, repeats, rests, accidentals, articulations.  All that's left
 is staves, stems, beams, and slurs, for the most part.

 well you could try the following.

 1. close all apps
 2. open terminal.app
 3. now type

      atsutil databases -removeUser

 hit return

 then type

      atsutil server -shutdown

 then hit return

 now type

      atsutil server -ping

 This restarts the ats server and rebuilds the font cache.

 I suggest a reboot for good measure.

 See if that helps.

 James
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Re: Absurd thing to do

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Good question. I suspect I will be having a similar problem in the
future...at the moment, I was thinking of using Sibelius's built-in
OMR to try to convert a pdf. Anyone know of a better way?

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:30 AM, Shane Brandes sh...@grayskies.net wrote:
 Does anyone have any experience converting lilypond to finale type
 files? I only ask this because I have had a run in with a publisher
 who thinks it would be too much work as all their output is from that
 app and all mine is now on lilypond. I gave him a pretty good lecture
 on the awesome nature of Lilypond, but to no avail. Not that it would
 change our other argument (I am an obsolete composer), but I want to
 at least abolish that one if possible. I suspect it is possible to run
 a .ly into an .xml and then import it somehow but have not had the
 opportunity to try it out myself. Nor do I really want to.

 regards,

 Shane Brandes

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unmetered music - page breaks and empty bar lines

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Oddly, I'm dealing with the exact same problem just now! Like you,
I've set a metre and then set the default bar line type to empty.

Simply removing the Bar_engraver will lead to disaster, although it
will make all the notes evenly spaced...The clefs on subsequent
systems will disappear. Now sure why yet. Section 3.2.9 of the
Internals
Reference gives all the properties of bar lines that you can mess
with; I'll report on what I find out.

Out of interest, what are you working on? It looks somewhat familiar...

Saw your Bach article in CIM 15, btw; nice work!

Regards,
Frauke

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Peter Van Kranenburg
peter.van.kranenb...@meertens.knaw.nl wrote:
 Dear list,

 I'm typesetting unmetered music. My question is: what is the right (or best)
 approach to do so?

 If I set Score.timing to false, I have to insert \bar  everywhere in order
 to let lilypond figure out a nice layout. That's tedious.

 My current approach is this:

 
 \layout {
  \context {
        \Score
        \remove Bar_number_engraver
        \override BarLine #'transparent = ##t
        \override TimeSignature #'transparent = ##t
  }
  \context {
          \PianoStaff
          \override SpanBar #'stencil =
          #(lambda (grob)
                (if (string=? (ly:grob-property grob 'glyph-name) |)
                        (set! (ly:grob-property grob 'glyph-name) ))
                (ly:span-bar::print grob))
  }
 }
 

 At the beginning of the music I do: \set Timing.defaultBarType = 

 So, I set the music with meter - providing lilypond many good points to
 insert line breaks - and I make all barlines empty and hide the meter. The
 problem is that the (empty) bar lines still occupy space, causing the notes
 to be spaced unevenly (see attached example - the bottom part is where the
 bar lines are when they are not empty. The space before the final note is
 really bad).

 I tried to set the next-note distance to 0 in the space-alist of barline,
 but that didn't remove all horizontal space.

 Is there a better way to do this?

 Thanks in advance.

 Best,
 Peter van Kranenburg

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Re: unmetered music - page breaks and empty bar lines

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Hmm, when I tried this, I got something like mensurstriche
instead...but that must be because I was using a PianoStaff. When I
get rid of the PianoStaff, I can get the (lack of space-occupying) bar
lines I want, but attempts at creating a StaffGroup to give me back my
curly brace have failed so far.

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Peter Van Kranenburg
peter.van.kranenb...@meertens.knaw.nl wrote:
 On 1/2/11 3:55 PM, James Bailey wrote:



 minor change since you said you needed a final barline:
 \version 2.12.3
 \layout {
    \context { \Score \remove Timing_translator \remove Bar_number_engraver
 }
    \context { \Staff \override TimeSignature #'stencil = ##f
    }
 }
 music = {
    \override Staff.BarLine #'stencil = ##f
    \repeat unfold 32 { \repeat unfold 2 { a8[ a a a] } }
    \revert Staff.BarLine #'stencil
    \bar |.
 }
 \score { \music \layout {} }


 best,
 Peter


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Re: no view because of mistakes?

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Ah, I understand much better!
The problem with the triplets is that most of the curly braces aren't
closed properly; there seem to be 4 messages about that at the end of
your excerpt (not familiar with Denemo at all). A nice feature of Vim
(and some other editors) is that it will highlight braces' partners
for you, so that you can see if they close when they're meant to.

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Jan Warchoł
lemniskata.bernoulli...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/12/31 Ludo Beckers lazy...@gmail.com:
 Thanks Xavier, in a 2nd post I explained I made a mistake thinking (doh) I
 was sending my question to the Denemo list.
 So I have a .denemo file only, no .ly
 I'm pretty new to this, so I know I can see the Lilypond compilation view,
 but don't know yet how to extract it as a .ly file.
 Trying to change things in the Lilypond view doesn't (seem to) work.

 That's good to know; it might be wise to first get to know .ly files in that
 fashion before trying to do all in Denemo or Frescobaldi.

 I recommend doing so. Read the Learning Manual, try to make a simple
 score with a regular text editor and afterwards decide if you want to
 use Denemo or something else.

 Usually a GUI is easier than compiling yourself, but in this case it's
 different - I'll have to learn the inner working better first.
 I'm not a hero yet though with vim (also just starting with that).

 Here are 2 snippets from the Lilypond view - maybe it's very obvious where
 the mistake is?

 Trying to compile it without Denemo is hard, because there are some
 Denemo artifacts (for example \Barline command doesn't come from
 default LilyPond specification and therefore LilyPond alone doesn't
 understand it)
 But i can see that the triplets are done wrongly for sure. For example line 4

 dis' fis' b4 ~ b \times 2/3 { b8 c' cis'\Barline

 should read

 dis' fis' b4 ~ b \times 2/3 { b8 c' cis' } \Barline

 HTH,
 Janek

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Re: Clarification of Gregorian Chant terminology

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Why not call it

Ligatures in square notation or Square Notation Ligatures? That
would remove both the neume and the also-problematic Gregorian.

Regards,
Frauke

On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Karl Hammar k...@aspodata.se wrote:
 James:
 ...
 Likewise the term 'Gregorian Square Neume Ligatures', could I for
 instance just call them 'Gregorian Square Neumes' or whatever the
 plural is?

 Neums are a kind of strokes as seen in e.g. [1]
 A ligature is two or more notes bound together.
 Black square notation is seen in e.g. [2].

 I don't know what to do with Gregorian square neume ligatures, it
 seems to me as a mixup. Lilypond as of today don't do neums, it only
 handles black square and later notation.

 If you want references and more help I can give it next week.

 Regards,
 /Karl Hammar

 [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neume2.jpg
 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graduale_Aboense.jpg

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 S-742 94 Östhammar
 Sweden
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Re: Clarification of Gregorian Chant terminology

[Frauke Jurgensen]

I think the trouble is a mixing of terminology:

ligatures is being used as a lilypond term to cover
multi-note-symbols of various types of early notation, regardless of
terms used in palaeography for that type of notation. It seems logical
to use this one term for things that behave similarly...but perhaps it
needs to be clarified that this is a lilypondian generalisation?

Gregorian is being used as a lay-man's label specifically for square
notation, and it seems to me that if we're going to get specific about
compound neumes vs. ligatures, we also need to be specific about the
kind of notation...

Not sure if that makes any kind of sense...

regards,
Frauke

On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Marek Klein ma...@gregoriana.sk wrote:
 2010/12/30 Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com

 2010/12/30 Frauke Jurgensen frauk...@gmail.com:
  Why not call it
 
  Ligatures in square notation or Square Notation Ligatures? That
  would remove both the neume and the also-problematic Gregorian.
 
  Regards,
  Frauke

 Gregorian neumes would be a more natural name for that notation
 element.  Sorry if I try to restore the two potentially problematic
 words.

 There are other kinds of neumes used to notate gregorian (and other) chant.

 I havn't seen the term ligature used with square notation, except for
 lilypond. More commonly used term (as oposit to single-note neumes) is
 compound neumes.

 --
 Marek Klein,
 http://gregoriana.sk

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Re: no view because of mistakes?

[Frauke Jurgensen]

When you compile the file, what does the output say?

On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:23 PM, Ludo Beckers lazy...@gmail.com wrote:
 When I make mistakes, how do I know where they are?
 I'm working on a tune that won't show the PDF-result and I haven't got a
 clue where the wrong input is (possibly the tuplets, because it's not so
 clear how to input them correctly).

 Ludo

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making staves full of rests disappear in a full score

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Hello all!

I have a large orchestral score, in which individual instruments at
times are resting for many pages. I would like these instruments to
disappear (those staves not to be shown) on systems where they have
nothing but rests.

The only way I can think of to do this, is to create a new staff at
the point where the instrument appears, and to do so each time.

Is there a less cumbersome way of doing this?

Regards,
Frauke

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Re: making staves full of rests disappear in a full score

[Frauke Jurgensen]

Thanks all!

I just updated to 2.12.33, was using an ancient version where this
didn't seem to exist yet...Problem solved!

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:00 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
 Frauke Jurgensen frauk...@gmail.com writes:

 Hello all!

 I have a large orchestral score, in which individual instruments at
 times are resting for many pages. I would like these instruments to
 disappear (those staves not to be shown) on systems where they have
 nothing but rests.

 The only way I can think of to do this, is to create a new staff at
 the point where the instrument appears, and to do so each time.

 Is there a less cumbersome way of doing this?

 Check the notation manual, node Hiding staves.

 --
 David Kastrup


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