Re: Flat - with "2" number

[Hans Aberg]

> On 8 Aug 2015, at 18:55, Server Acim  wrote:

> So, the "segah" koma(a littile bit lower than flat) sound is used in the key 
> signature with normal flat sign but added a "2" number above it. We(The 
> Turkish musician who uses LilyPond for engraving an Turkish Folk Song) need 
> this sign for using it at the engraving project of a Turkish Folk Song.

They can be typeset using OpenLilyLib and the SMuFl glyphs. Cf.
  http://www.smufl.org/version/latest/range/turkishFolkMusicAccidentals/

By using Graham Breed’s file for regular tunings, one can set in E53, meaning 
that they will transpose correctly (unlike makam.ly).



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Re: sharping naturals

[Hans Aberg]

> On 23 Jul 2015, at 18:33, Brother Gabriel-Marie  wrote:
> 
> When you use key signatures like A major or B Major you end up with a lot of 
> naturals in the score for which you may have to manually add sharps.
> 
> Is there a switch that will automatically sharp all the naturals?

One can change the meaning of the note names. This is done in the GHB (Great 
Highland Bagpipe) file bagpipe.ly. This music is in A Mixolydian, so it defines 
note names for that. Then it is traditional to suppress the key signature in 
this bagpipe notation.

However, the music is still typeset internally in the A Mixolydian scale, and 
the key signature does not alter the values of the note names.

But if you have a heap of ABC music, which follows the convention you seem to 
want, and does not want to convert it to LilyPond notation, it might be useful.



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Note notation

[Hans Aberg]

> On 25 Jul 2015, at 09:04, David Kastrup  wrote:
> 
> Kieren MacMillan  writes:

>> Whether or not that is the key signature the OP wants to work in would
>> be the OP’s problem.
> 
> If we wanted to support "natural English note entry", it would become
> LilyPond's problem.

LilyPond’s current system is just fine: it follows how staff notation works, 
and can easily be extended to other pitch systems, as in the C++14 code I 
already have written.

LilyPond’s lacks accidental operator syntax, though. An accidental is an 
interval of scale degree 0 that is added to a note. So one might introduce the 
notion of intervals as well.



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Re: sharping naturals

[Hans Aberg]

> On 25 Jul 2015, at 00:18, Brother Gabriel-Marie  wrote:
> 
> My problem was a coding issue, not a musical issue.
> I wanted a coding solution to save keystrokes but everyone wanted to talk 
> music theory.

If you use 
  \language "english"
then flats are suffix “f” and sharps “s”, so that saves keystrokes.

> So I thought I would ask here where everyone knows both.
> In the end, I've learned that there's no easy coding solution and that I'm 
> going to have to sharp all the naturals myself in the code.  

In LilyPond, as in music staff notation, one enter notes by their names as they 
are in the music, and adds a key signature in order to reduce the appearances 
of the accidentals within the music itself.

> I am used to programming languages where you can wrap a string in a custom 
> function and have it do that for you; moving from regular programming 
> languages to a layout code like this requires one to think differently.

There is a transpose function to do that on the semantic level, as was 
described.



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Re: E-mail management question

[Hans Aberg]

> On 23 Apr 2015, at 16:59, SonusProj .  wrote:

> Subscribing to this e-mail list is overwhelming me with e-mail posts that are 
> beyond me and outside of my scope of interest.  Is it possible to throttle 
> the e-mail so I don't receive 70 e-mails a day?

One option is a daily digest, good if you have poor bandwidth. After 
subscribing, log in and set this and other options at
  https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/lilypond-user/

Another way to handle a large flow is to make a local mailbox and set a rule 
(also called filter) that moves the stuff into this mailbox automatically. It 
is usually quick to scan the subjects.



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Re: Lua, Lilypond, and Linux

[Hans Aberg]

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 14:53, David Bellows  wrote:
> 
>> The call system() should always use sh. Try
>  lilypond example.ly 2> lily.txt
> 
> That does it, thanks! I took my syntax from the Usage manual and
> according to it this command should only send the errors to the text
> file but it definitely sends everything.
> 
> So is there a form that will work on all platforms or at least all
> *nix-based platforms?

Since sh is standardized [1], it should work on all platforms following that.

1. http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/sh.html



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Re: Lua, Lilypond, and Linux

[Hans Aberg]

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 00:28, David Bellows  wrote:

> os.execute("lilypond example.ly &> lily.txt”)

The call system() should always use sh. Try
  lilypond example.ly 2> lily.txt



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Re: Lua, Lilypond, and Linux

[Hans Aberg]

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 09:58, Johan Vromans  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:28:47 -0700
> David Bellows  wrote:
> 
>> os.execute("lilypond example.ly &> lily.txt")
> 
> I don't know about lua, but standard shell syntax for this is
> 
>  lilypond example.ly >lily.txt 2>&1 (Bourne family of shells)
> 
>  lilypond example.ly >& lily.txt(C family of shells)

The call system() should always use sh, but on BSD type systems, as OS X, it is 
a compatibility mode of bash. The GNU OS sh may be different, say more strict.



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Re: Lua, Lilypond, and Linux

[Hans Aberg]

> On 22 Mar 2015, at 00:28, David Bellows  wrote:

> Here is example.ly
> 
> \version "2.19.17"
> {
>  c' e' g' e'
> }
> 
> And lily.lua for Lua 5.3
> 
> os.execute("lilypond example.ly &> lily.txt")
> 
> And then from the command line:
> 
> lua lily.lua

> for some reason when running that command in Lua
> nothing gets written to lily.txt and everything goes to the screen.

On OS X 10.10.3, it works as you want it, i.e., stuff goes into .txt, nothing 
on the console (Terminal).





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Re: Peer review

[Hans Aberg]

> On 18 Feb 2015, at 09:18, Rutger Hofman  wrote:
> 
> On 02/18/2015 03:30 AM, Craig Dabelstein wrote:

>> Here is the link:
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/614749/Berlioz-02-piccolo.pdf

> At letter [P] in mvt III: a top c# for the piccolo: I don't remember ever 
> having had to play that (and I hope it will be a long time before I meet it).

There are a couple of measures missing, and it should be one octave lower [1].

1. 
http://imslp.org/wiki/Grande_symphonie_fun%C3%A8bre_et_triomphale,_H_80_%28Berlioz,_Hector%29



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Re: Compile .ly via terminal in mac

[Hans Aberg]

> On 13 Feb 2015, at 16:16, jrsv  wrote:
> 
> I am new user of lilypond. I need to help out a friend compiling his scores.
> We have setup a dropbox shared folder and I am preparing an automator action
> in Mac to compile the files automatically via terminal.

Make script called ‘lilypond’ somewhere in your PATH with the single line
exec /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/lilypond "$@“

Then compile with
  lilypond .ly

Open the output file with
  open .pdf

Also try
  ls /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/
to see what other binaries are available.



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Re: architecture problem with midi2ly on a mac

[Hans Aberg]

> On 4 Feb 2015, at 18:50, Cynthia Karl  wrote:
> 
>>> 

>>> It works with a script, named say “midi2ly” and put in the PATH, with the 
>>> single line:
>>> exec /usr/bin/python 
>>> /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@“
>> 
>> Thanks, but unfortunately I still have the problem with that:

The workarounds and recompile fixes are here:
  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2014-10/msg00799.html



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Re: architecture problem with midi2ly on a mac

[Hans Aberg]

> On 4 Feb 2015, at 18:50, Cynthia Karl  wrote:
> 
>>> 

>>> It works with a script, named say “midi2ly” and put in the PATH, with the 
>>> single line:
>>> exec /usr/bin/python 
>>> /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@“
>> 
>> Thanks, but unfortunately I still have the problem with that:

I use LilyPond 2.19.15 - perhaps you use an older version:

>> It seems like a python problem.
...
> To be more precise, it seems to be a problem with the file 
> /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/lib/lilypond/current/python/midi.so,
> which, as python reports, is mach-o but wrong architecture.
...
> So perhaps i need a midi.so which is for i486 architecture, not i386 
> architecture?  (I’ve left my safety zone now.)

Right. There are several problems: midi2ly compiled 32-bit for an old Python 
API. I reported how to fix that, so perhaps it has beed done in latest LilyPond.

When I exclude /usr/bin/python, thus using LilyPonds’s own Python, I get
  Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
which is a new problem.



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Re: architecture problem with midi2ly on a mac

[Hans Aberg]

> On 4 Feb 2015, at 16:26, Cynthia Karl  wrote:

> This is on a MacBook Pro running OS X 10.10.2.

> Is there any way I can get midi2ly running on this computer?

It works with a script, named say “midi2ly” and put in the PATH, with the 
single line:
exec /usr/bin/python /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly 
"$@"



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Re: Variables when compiling a book

[Hans Aberg]

> On 2 Feb 2015, at 21:34, John McWilliam  wrote:
> 
> I am compiling a collection of bagpipe tunes and am having a problem when the
> individual files are to be compiled into a book. Many of the tunes have
> sections of music defined in variables - these definitions lie outside the
> \score context and are causing errors when I try to compile the book.

Have you tried LilyPond-Book, which admits collecting separate .ly files into a 
book?



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Re: Command Line call to LilyPond with PDF auto open

[Hans Aberg]

> On 18 Jan 2015, at 07:54, Matthew James Briggs 
>  wrote:
> 
> When calling LilyPond from the command line (I'm on Mac OS X) like this
> 
> exec /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/lilypond "pathtomy.ly"
> 
> is there a flag to tell the program to open the compiled PDF when it's 
> finished like the GUI program does?

I use a script ‘lilypond' in the PATH containing:
  exec /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/lilypond "$@“

Then run from the command line:
  lilypond .ly && open .pdf

In the past, Preview has not updated properly, but it can be useful anyhow, to 
get the document front.



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Re: Multiple Endings Problem

[Hans Aberg]

> On 2 Jan 2015, at 02:36, William Marchant  wrote:
> 
> I am using the code below to set up two different endings for a song.  The 
> code shown automatically puts
> a Repeat Start bar line at the beginning of  of Bar 29.  I would like to 
> suppress it but can only do so with a Tick Bar Line.  This looks a bit odd. 
> No other Bar Line seems to work.  Is there a method for what I want to do?
> Bill
> 
> \repeat volta 2 {bf'8~ bf a a g4( f)| } %Bar 29
>  \alternative{ { c2 e4( g4) |f1 |  r2 r4 g8( f) \bar ":|."} %Bar 30 31  32
>{c2 e4( d' | c1) |c4( c bf) a( |
> c4. bf8 a4 bf)} %Bar 33 34 35 36
>  }

There may be a bug: with some bars added ahead, one should be able to use \bar 
"|", but it still typesets \bar ".|:". One can use \bar "", though.

The \bar ":|.” above is unnecessary. Also, if the \repeat volta does not 
encompass all music repeated, \unfoldRepeats will not expand MIDI correctly.



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Re: New Music Font: Sebastiano

[Hans Aberg]

> On 14 Dec 2014, at 16:15, Abraham Lee  wrote:

> There's a new music font at fonts.openlilylib.org. Go check it out!

On OS X, even though the SMuFL Bravura font can be put in the LilyPond 
application folder fonts/otf/, it works installing it as a System font too, 
which has the advantage that the the app need not be patched when upgraded.



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Re: Note name to markup

[Hans Aberg]

> Maybe this snippet could help : http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=856

I have made a version that works with all key signatures, including microtonal 
ones, when using the SMuFL  standard, with some padding 
issues remaining.

I replace the original mode name lookup with an associative list where keys are 
the mode key-alist definitions, making it easy to add modes and change names.



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Re: Nachschlag - Passing Appoggiatura - hook?

[Hans Aberg]

> On 29 Nov 2014, at 23:19, Javier Ruiz-Alma  wrote:
> 
> I'm typesetting BWV 1055, which includes these so-called nachschlags (or 
> passing appoggiaturas, accents)
> They can appear coming down or up to the following note (see attached).
>  
> These are explained here:
> http://www.iment.com/maida/familytree/henry/music/bachnotation.htm#passinga
>  
> How to typeset these with LP?

“Harvard concise” says it is attached to the main note, and writes it as a 
small 8th note with a slash and a slur to the note before it. So this would be 
\afterGrace, but Notation does not say if \slashedGrace can be used with it. 
Perhaps LilyPond should have a \nachschlag counterpart to \acciaccatura.



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Re: Note name to markup

[Hans Aberg]

> On 27 Nov 2014, at 08:56, Pierre Perol-Schneider 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maybe this snippet could help : http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=856

It looks great, though it does not work with with microtonal pitches. I will 
see if I can fix that.


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Note name to markup

[Hans Aberg]

Is there a way to print note names suitable for markup, in a transposable 
manner? - The idea is to print say "ef" as "E" followed by the flat used in the 
staff notation, as indicated by accidental alterations (so it also works with 
microtonal note names). The use I have in mind is when writing non-standard key 
signatures, and marking them with mode name and key - when transposing, it is 
easy to forget changing the markup key. 


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Re: Custom Key Signatures

[Hans Aberg]

> On 13 Nov 2014, at 18:13, st...@linuxsuite.org wrote:

>I want to make a custom key signature. It should have f# c# a#
> 
>   How can I do this?

LilyPond supports custom transposable key signatures, as in the example below.



\version "2.19.15"


hitzaz = #`(
  (0 . 0)
  (1 . ,FLAT)
  (2 . 0)
  (3 . 0)
  (4 . 0)
  (5 . ,FLAT)
  (6 . ,FLAT)
)

\language "english"

music = <<
  \new Staff {
  \tempo 4 = 120

  \override Score.RehearsalMark #'break-align-symbols = #'(key-signature)
  \key fs \hitzaz\mark \markup { \tiny \italic {"F" \sharp " hitzaz"} }

  \time 11/16
  \set beatStructure = #'(4 3 4)

  \relative d' {
 cs16 ds e fs  g16 as b  cs d e fs |
}
  }
>>


\score {
  \music
  \layout {}
}

\score {
  \unfoldRepeats % \articulate
\music
  \midi {}
}




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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

> On 2 Nov 2014, at 11:31, Jayaratna  wrote:
> 
> Very interesting developements here. I love Lilypond!
> 
> I am fine with the default font at the moment, just wondering if any of
> these fonts has specific improvements for ancient notation engraving.

Check here:
  http://www.smufl.org/version/latest/



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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 21:16, Graham Breed  wrote:
> 
> On 29/07/14 15:18, Hans Aberg wrote:
> 
>> Graham Breed wrote a file for equal temperaments for an earlier version of 
>> LilyPond, which I was able to tweak for the latest version (discussed on the 
>> devel list). When using the currently available microtonal symbols, then 
>> also key signatures seemed to work fine - a problem in the past.
> 
> The latest code is here: https://bitbucket.org/x31eq/microlily
> 
> I thought it was up to date.  I can take patches if it isn't.
> 
>> So it seems that all one has to do in order to get decent microtonality into 
>> LilyPond is to include this version of Graham’s file in the distribution and 
>> add microtonal symbols so that they can be called like the ones currently 
>> available.
> 
> Sagittal works for accidentals as a text font.  It should work for key 
> signatures as well, but I don't test that.  I didn't use a music font because 
> it was too much trouble to create a music font with Sagittal. Also, it's 
> possible to use strings for chained accidentals with a text font.  This would 
> be important for Extended Helmholtz if anybody wired it up.

I found that LilyPond 2.19.15 already is capable of this, using the SMuFL 
standard [1], and the font Bravura [2], plus the OpenLily code [3]. 
Specifically, I use your file regular.ly to make one E53 (53-ET), then I tweak 
the file definitions.ily, by adding the SMuFL accidental names (those with 
singe and double up and down arrows, in multiples of 6/53) to the definition of 
the variable smufl-alteration-glyph-name-alist. Microtonal key signatures seem 
to work.

The file example.ly also compiled. So it seems to be good to have this stuff 
integrated into the LilyPond distribution.

1. http://www.smufl.org
2. http://www.smufl.org/fonts/
3. 
https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/tree/master/custom-music-fonts/smufl



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Re: midi2ly

[Hans Aberg]

> On 30 Oct 2014, at 01:07, ole  wrote:
> 
> Am 29.10.2014 um 23:10 schrieb Hans Aberg :
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2014, at 21:53, ole  wrote:

>>> Sorry for the noise! 
>>> Just discovered that a .ly file has been made despite of the error warning..
>> 
>> Strictly speaking, it is a warning as it passes the compile, not an error 
>> which would abort. So it is a relevant issue, though it seems to work.
>> 
> So- as I understand it right- I can install python 2.4 into /opt/local/bin 
> via macports
> 
> and then change the line to
> 
> exec /usr/bin/arch -i386 /opt/local/bin/python2.4 
> /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@"
> 
> Would that work?

One can recompile the file python_midi.c that is in the LilyPond GIT repository:
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=lilypond.git;a=blob;f=python/midi.c;h=890798c66a4f022139013c81e641b743756aef15;hb=HEAD


For i386:
clang -dynamiclib -I/usr/include/python2.7/ python_midi.c -arch i386 
-lpython2.7 -o midi.so

For x86_64:
clang -dynamiclib -I/usr/include/python2.7/ python_midi.c -lpython2.7 -o midi.so


The script then seems to work if one writes:

For i386:
exec /usr/bin/arch -i386 /usr/bin/python2.7 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@“

or 

exec /usr/bin/arch -i386 /usr/bin/python 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@“


For x86_64:
exec /usr/bin/python2.7 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@“

or

exec /usr/bin/python /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly 
"$@"


If the part ‘/usr/bin/python’ is excluded, it fails on my system, because it 
then tries MacPorts '/opt/local/bin/python’.



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Re: midi2ly

[Hans Aberg]

> On 30 Oct 2014, at 01:07, ole  wrote:
> 
> Am 29.10.2014 um 23:10 schrieb Hans Aberg :
> 
>> On 29 Oct 2014, at 21:53, ole  wrote:

>>> Sorry for the noise! 
>>> Just discovered that a .ly file has been made despite of the error warning..
>> 
>> Strictly speaking, it is a warning as it passes the compile, not an error 
>> which would abort. So it is a relevant issue, though it seems to work.
>> 
> So- as I understand it right- I can install python 2.4 into /opt/local/bin 
> via macports
> 
> and then change the line to
> 
> exec /usr/bin/arch -i386 /opt/local/bin/python2.4 
> /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@"
> 
> Would that work?

If you don’t like that pesky warning, you can always try. But the MIDI file I 
used it on seemed to work with Python 2.7.



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Re: midi2ly

[Hans Aberg]

> On 29 Oct 2014, at 21:53, ole  wrote:

> I think I found the right place for your line.
> And get the following error warning:
> 
> /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly:54: RuntimeWarning: 
> Python C API version mismatch for module midi: This Python has API version 
> 1013, module midi has version 1012.

The LilyPond midi2ly file has been compiled for the API in Python 2.4, so the 
line should really be: 
exec /usr/bin/arch -i386 /usr/bin/python2.4 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@“

But this version does not come with the system installation in /usr/bin/ of 
later OS X.

> Sorry for the noise! 
> Just discovered that a .ly file has been made despite of the error warning..

Strictly speaking, it is a warning as it passes the compile, not an error which 
would abort. So it is a relevant issue, though it seems to work.



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Re: midi2ly

[Hans Aberg]

> On 29 Oct 2014, at 20:13, ole  wrote:

> Can you please describe for me where exactly I have to put the line, in the 
> .profile file?

I make a script - an executable, which should be in the PATH (see below).

There are several ways to make a script:

One way is first making the text file in Terminal by
touch midi2ly
If you want use a text editor like Xcode, go to Terminal and write
  open -a Xcode midi2ly
and paste in the line
  exec /usr/bin/arch -i386 /usr/bin/python2.7 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@"
 and save.

Alternatively, make the file directly by writing
  cat > mid2ly
Paste in the same line as above followed by D to end ‘cat’.

The set the executable permissions by
  chmod a+x midi2ly
Check that it is right with
  ls -l midi2ly

Then put in somewhere in the PATH. In later OS X, /usr/local/bin/ is in the 
searchpath, but putting it there requires ‘sudo’ permissions (unless changed as 
some running homebrew do). But to do that write
  sudo cp midi2ly /usr/local/bin/
By using ‘cp’ rather than ‘mv’, the other file metadata becomes right.

Otherwise, you might make a directory ~/bin/, make sure it is in the PATH by 
changing .profile. Then ‘sudo’ isn’t needed. 


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Re: Mac OSX 10.10 (Yosemite) and LilyPond compatibility?

[Hans Aberg]

> On 22 Oct 2014, at 18:40, Gabriel Striewe  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 06:49:21PM +0300, Omer Katzir wrote:
>> I actually have a problem, I can't compile the files, no error, just
>> not doing it. I'm not sure if it's my very old machine or the upgrade.
>> 
> Me, too, am having problems compiling lilypond (2.18.2) with homebrew. I 
> filed a
> bug on homebrew git. Might have to do with gcc. 

You may have to update to Command Line Tools (OS X 10.10) [1].

1. https://developer.apple.com/downloads/index.action?name=for%20Xcode%20-



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Re: midi2ly

[Hans Aberg]

> On 17 Aug 2014, at 01:40, Davide Liessi  wrote:
> 
> 2014-08-09 10:27 GMT+02:00 ole :
>> Am 09.08.2014 um 07:35 schrieb James :
>>> 
>>> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=2208
>>> 
>>> There is a workaround in there I think.
>> 
>> Thank you, unfortunatly this workaround does not help for Mac OS 10.8.5. (as 
>> it is also mentioned in the linked thread..
> 
> The suggested workaround indeed does not work on any system I tried.
> I updated the issue with details and a functioning workaround.
> Of course the solution would be to build the library midi.so as a
> universal binary containing both 32 bit and 64 bit code.

I wrote a script ‘midi2ly', which should be put in the $PATH, containing the 
single line:
exec /usr/bin/arch -i386 /usr/bin/python2.7 
/Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/midi2ly "$@"



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Re: Supporting ♯ and ♭

[Hans Aberg]

> On 7 Oct 2014, at 01:12, MarcM  wrote:
> 
> Hans Aberg-2 wrote

>>> I know using '#' would not work due to conflict with scheme but what
>>> about
>>> using the Unicode symbols?
>> 
>> It works, in fact I have already done that [1] (after downloading the
>> files, change the names to what is listed on the page), but it has not
>> been integrated into LilyPond.
>> 
>> LilyPond does not have operators: ♯ and ♭ are a part of note names. When
>> having microtonal accidentals, there becomes too may names to write them
>> all out. But it is possible to add more languages, would LilyPond get
>> that.
>> 
>> 1. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2011-11/msg00420.html
> 
> Great minds think alike. I notice your post is from 2011, was there an issue
> adding it to lilypond?

I didn’t try to add it myself, and I do not know why it was not added - perhaps 
no strong interest.



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Re: Supporting ♯ and ♭

[Hans Aberg]

> On 6 Oct 2014, at 15:49, MarcM  wrote:
> 
> 
> In an effort to make lilypond syntax easier for people to adopt, i'd love to
> see lilypond support the ♯ and ♭alterations Unicode symbols. 
> 
> I know using '#' would not work due to conflict with scheme but what about
> using the Unicode symbols?

It works, in fact I have already done that [1] (after downloading the files, 
change the names to what is listed on the page), but it has not been integrated 
into LilyPond.

LilyPond does not have operators: ♯ and ♭ are a part of note names. When having 
microtonal accidentals, there becomes too may names to write them all out. But 
it is possible to add more languages, would LilyPond get that.

1. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2011-11/msg00420.html



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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 21:16, Graham Breed  wrote:

> I didn't use a music font because it was too much trouble to create a music 
> font with Sagittal. Also, it's possible to use strings for chained 
> accidentals with a text font.  This would be important for Extended Helmholtz 
> if anybody wired it up.

Some info about the Extended Helmholtz microtonal accidentals [1] that Graham 
mentions:

It might be nice to have some of the 5-limit intervals in [1]. The 5-limit is 
the most important one, as this is what a Western orchestra typically adapts 
towards.

In a LilyPond implementation, one can choose E53 (53 equal temperament) as an 
approximation of Pythagorean tuning, and then approximate the syntonic comma 
81/80, about 21.506 cents, with one E53 tonestep, also called a comma. The 
approximation is so good that the difference barely can be heard in 
simultaneous sounding notes.

The interval of a sharp or flat in E53 is 5 commas, so it makes it possible to 
have the single- and double-arrows in [1] implemented in E53. The other ones 
would end up in E53 enharmonic equivalence.

FYI, E53 is also used in the description of Turkish music, and might be 
suitable for Persian (with koron and sori glyphs added), and in Arabian music. 
Currently, the files for these use something else: ETs that are multiples of 
12, due to limitations in past versions of LilyPond.

1. http://www.newmusicbox.org/assets/72/HelmholtzEllisLegend.pdf



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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 21:16, Graham Breed  wrote:

> On 29/07/14 15:18, Hans Aberg wrote:
> 
>> Graham Breed wrote a file for equal temperaments for an earlier version of 
>> LilyPond, which I was able to tweak for the latest version (discussed on the 
>> devel list). When using the currently available microtonal symbols, then 
>> also key signatures seemed to work fine - a problem in the past.
> 
> The latest code is here: https://bitbucket.org/x31eq/microlily
> 
> I thought it was up to date.  I can take patches if it isn’t.
...
> With 2.16.0, everything works except the accidentals sometimes crash the 
> barlines.

The one I made works with LilyPond 2.19.10 - just tested. It may be different 
from the one you have.

>> So it seems that all one has to do in order to get decent microtonality into 
>> LilyPond is to include this version of Graham’s file in the distribution and 
>> add microtonal symbols so that they can be called like the ones currently 
>> available.
> 
> Sagittal works for accidentals as a text font.  It should work for key 
> signatures as well, but I don't test that.  

At least in the past, I think that if one has not recompiled LilyPond for the 
font, key signatures won’t work. They do work with the built-in microtonal 
accidentals, though.

> I didn't use a music font because it was too much trouble to create a music 
> font with Sagittal. Also, it's possible to use strings for chained 
> accidentals with a text font.  This would be important for Extended Helmholtz 
> if anybody wired it up.

This was one I had in mind.

For those that do not know about these: it is basically a way to make sure that 
Just Intonation can be typeset; there is not enough of microtonal accidentals 
in the built-in set.



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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 15:45, Abraham Lee  wrote:

> There was some work done on a font for Ekmelic microtonal music that ended up 
> being called Ekmelily for its use with LilyPond:
> 
> http://www.ekmelic-music.org/en/ekmelily.htm
> 
> You might want to look at this. They created their own font for the 
> accidentals and used a custom file that made them accessible with relative 
> ease. This font is installed in the "normal" system location and there's only 
> one to worry about. It's pretty cool!

Graham Breed wrote a file for equal temperaments for an earlier version of 
LilyPond, which I was able to tweak for the latest version (discussed on the 
devel list). When using the currently available microtonal symbols, then also 
key signatures seemed to work fine - a problem in the past.

So it seems that all one has to do in order to get decent microtonality into 
LilyPond is to include this version of Graham’s file in the distribution and 
add microtonal symbols so that they can be called like the ones currently 
available.



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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 15:45, Abraham Lee  wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>>  
>> Am 29.07.2014 14:58, schrieb Hans Aberg:

>> >> Maybe you should browse the recent archives: this actually is what we're 
>> >> talking about 😊
>> >
>> > Since you know about it, perhaps you can provide a reference - I do not 
>> > see dynamic linking being mentioned.
>> 
>> It was discussed in this thread: 
>> 
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2014-07/msg00216.html

> Actually, I'm not sure that's what Hans was asking. There was some work done 
> on a font for Ekmelic microtonal music that ended up being called Ekmelily 
> for its use with LilyPond:
> 
> http://www.ekmelic-music.org/en/ekmelily.htm
> 
> You might want to look at this. They created their own font for the 
> accidentals and used a custom file that made them accessible with relative 
> ease. This font is installed in the "normal" system location and there's only 
> one to worry about. It's pretty cool!

I think that if you do that, microtonal accidentals will still not work in key 
signatures. For that, one has to tweak the sources, and recompile LilyPond. Key 
signatures with microtonal accidentals are used in for example Persian and 
Turkish music.

But it might be possible to look around for number of microtonal suggestions, 
and include them in a font that comes with the LilyPond distribution.



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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 15:35, Urs Liska  wrote:

>>> Maybe you should browse the recent archives: this actually is what we're 
>>> talking about 😊
>> 
>> Since you know about it, perhaps you can provide a reference - I do not see 
>> dynamic linking being mentioned.
> 
> It was discussed in this thread: 
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2014-07/msg00216.html

How much space do these new fonts take up? The OS X LilyPond distribution is on 
ca 50 MB, about a third of Firefox. It might be best to have them in the 
distribution, so that .ly compile without having to download stuff.



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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 14:53, Urs Liska  wrote:

> On 29. Juli 2014 14:47:57 MESZ, Hans Aberg  wrote:
>> On 29 Jul 2014, at 00:58, Abraham Lee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 2. LilyPond needs to be patched in order actually use the fonts. 
>> 
>> I think this may be the problem in the case of the microtonal
>> accidentals as well: currently, a font must be integrated statically
>> into the LilyPond sources, that is, one cannot merely link it
>> dynamically at runtime. I have vague memory this is particularly true
>> for key signature accidentals. A tweak might focus on dynamic linking.
> 
> Maybe you should browse the recent archives: this actually is what we're 
> talking about 😊

Since you know about it, perhaps you can provide a reference - I do not see 
dynamic linking being mentioned.


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Re: Where to Download the New Music Fonts?

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Jul 2014, at 00:58, Abraham Lee  wrote:

> 2. LilyPond needs to be patched in order actually use the fonts. 

I think this may be the problem in the case of the microtonal accidentals as 
well: currently, a font must be integrated statically into the LilyPond 
sources, that is, one cannot merely link it dynamically at runtime. I have 
vague memory this is particularly true for key signature accidentals. A tweak 
might focus on dynamic linking.



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Re: See the new music fonts in action

[Hans Aberg]

On 28 Jul 2014, at 20:47, Abraham Lee  wrote:

>> BTW, is there some effort adding more microtonal symbols? LilyPond can now 
>> properly handle microtonal key signatures, it seems.

> Good question. If you are glyphs you are referring to are found the default 
> font set,
> 
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/the-feta-font#accidental-glyphs
> 
> then this is already supported in the new fonts :) I made sure that the 
> entire glyph set is supported, even if they have to fall back to the 
> Emmentaler ones in some places because I couldn't (or didn't feel like I 
> needed to) come up with one that matched the other glyphs (like the 
> shape-noteheads).
> 
> I, personally, don't use the microtonal glyphs, but I'm happy to continue to 
> support them as long as someone uses them! I don't plan on creating other 
> fonts specific to microtonal notation (e.g., Sagittal, etc.).

The current set is too limited, and I think it has to be some new font that 
comes with the distribution for it to work properly. For example, the Persian 
microtonal accidentals koron and sori are not supported, even though there is a 
file for typesetting Persian music. So one reason to not use microtonal symbols 
is that there is no support for it, but actually some do anyhow without being 
able to get the right rendering.



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Re: See the new music fonts in action

[Hans Aberg]

On 26 Jul 2014, at 01:14, tisimst  wrote:

> I couldn't wait any longer, so here's a formal announcement about the new
> music fonts that I've been working on, by way of example. They are all 100%
> LilyPond compatible for both PDF and SVG output. They all (except Gonville)
> support the full LilyPond glyph set (up to LilyPond version 2.18.2).
> 
> So far, there are now 9 music fonts in addition to LilyPond's default
> *Emmentaler* (also called /Feta/ in the official docs).

BTW, is there some effort adding more microtonal symbols? LilyPond can now 
properly handle microtonal key signatures, it seems.



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Re: Subbeaming and first measure grace notes

[Hans Aberg]

On 25 Jul 2014, at 01:55, Thomas Morley  wrote:

> 2014-07-24 0:33 GMT+02:00 Hans Aberg :
>> Is this a bug in the example below? The grace notes inhibit the called for 
>> subbeaming in the first measure; its OK in the following measure, and also 
>> when adding \partial. One can take away the triplet and replace with 1/16 
>> notes.
> 
...
> If you add manual beaming on the first graces, it works.
> No clue why...
> 
>>  \relative e' {
> \tuplet 3/2 {\grace {g16[ fs]} e8 fs16} g16 a16  b8 b |
>>\tuplet 3/2 {\grace {g16 a} b8 c16} a16 c16  b8-. g8 |
>>  }
>> }

It is a bit weird, right?

Your suggestion is more local than the one by Mark: 
  \tuplet 3/2 {\grace {g16 fs} e8 [fs16} g16 a16]



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Re: Subbeaming and first measure grace notes

[Hans Aberg]

On 24 Jul 2014, at 11:40, Abel Cheung  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Hans Aberg  wrote:
>>> \partial spacer plus invisible
>>> bar might be the workaround you want.
>> 
>> I tried that, but then one gets a bar.
> 
> Invisible bar is produced by: \bar ""

Ah, I didn’t think of that. Another problem is that it affects the MIDI file, 
so for the future, it would be better to have proper commands - right now 
articulate.ly does not write what I would expect, so it does not matter.

> Note that it can also be used in mid-measure as a hint on potential
> line break position.

This is a good suggestion, too.



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Re: Subbeaming and first measure grace notes

[Hans Aberg]

On 24 Jul 2014, at 09:02, Abel Cheung  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Hans Aberg  wrote:
>> 
>> This is a fix in both variations of placing the grace notes. The reason for 
>> putting them inside the triplet is quite subtle: I want them to be possible 
>> to expand to 1/32 notes, and having them outside makes the first tuplet 1/8 
>> note too short. It looks better though having them outside.
> 
> The only important factor you want to decide putting grace notes
> inside / outside tuplet is, whether tuplet bracket should enclose the
> grace notes.

Right. Putting them inside the brackets look a bit weird, but I felt it was a 
bit more musically correct.

> For the duration of grace notes, you can use
> \scaleDurations to scale them down to the length you want [1] .

I didn’t know that. It is tradition that by default refer to being played at 
half the value indicated, so perhaps the might be an implicit in 
\scaleDurations 1/2 into \grace.

> About settings disturbed by grace note, it seems that's a well known
> issue not going to be fixed. Settings are applied to real notes
> afterwards but not during grace notes.

Good to know that it is a known issue.

> \partial spacer plus invisible
> bar might be the workaround you want.

I tried that, but then one gets a bar.

> If grace notes can stay out of tuplet bracket, in practice I found
> \afterGrace attaching with \partial spacer looking much nicer than
> \grace attaching with note afterwards.

But then the notes appear to the note before, and before the measure bar, which 
is a different performance style, which is a good suggestion to give, because I 
have a case where it might be used.

> [1] See the Known issues of Grace Note section of
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/special-rhythmic-concerns



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Re: Subbeaming and first measure grace notes

[Hans Aberg]

On 24 Jul 2014, at 00:47, Mark Stephen Mrotek  wrote:

> When I move the "\grace {g16 fs}" to before "\tuplet 3/2" the beaming is
> correct.

Doesn’t work for me.

On 24 Jul 2014, at 00:51, Mark Stephen Mrotek  wrote:

> Corrected myself. Look at 
> \grace {g16 fs}  \tuplet 3/2 {e8 [ fs16 } g16 a16 ]  b8 b |
> For the first measure.

This is a fix in both variations of placing the grace notes. The reason for 
putting them inside the triplet is quite subtle: I want them to be possible to 
expand to 1/32 notes, and having them outside makes the first tuplet 1/8 note 
too short. It looks better though having them outside.



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Subbeaming and first measure grace notes

[Hans Aberg]

Is this a bug in the example below? The grace notes inhibit the called for 
subbeaming in the first measure; its OK in the following measure, and also when 
adding \partial. One can take away the triplet and replace with 1/16 notes.



\version "2.19.10"

\language "english"

music = \new Staff {
  \key e \minor

  \tempo 4 = 84
  \time 2/4

  \set subdivideBeams = ##t
  \set baseMoment = #(ly:make-moment 1/8)
  \set beatStructure = #'(2 2)

  \relative e' {
\tuplet 3/2 {\grace {g16 fs} e8 fs16} g16 a16  b8 b |
\tuplet 3/2 {\grace {g16 a} b8 c16} a16 c16  b8-. g8 |
  }
}

\score {
  \music
\layout {}
}



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Re: music

[Hans Aberg]

On 17 Jun 2014, at 18:12, keira mccook  wrote:

> I have dyslexia and i find it hard to read sheet music.I am starting uni in 
> September to study music. I've been instructed to improve my reading but it 
> seems impossible.is there any way you can help.

You need to figure out what you need, perhaps from forums like [1], where some 
give a number of helping suggestions, and LilyPond might be able to do some; 
others say that music reading training will be enough. Yet others point out it 
heavily depends on the individual.

1. http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=9023



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Re: Irrational time signature and tuplets

[Hans Aberg]

On 13 Jun 2014, at 01:26, Mark Stephen Mrotek  wrote:

> Thank you for your detailed and informative response. I shall take time to
> study it and the references that you provide.

You are welcome.

In short, one can use any mathematically irrational number and work it back to 
rational approximations using continued fractions. Continued fractions are also 
useful when computing equal temperament approximations of intervals. For 
example, for the perfect 5th rational interval 3/2, one takes the continued 
fractions of log_2(3/2). The convergents, then, are 7/12, 24/41, 31/53, ..., 
where the denominators are the equal temperaments 12, 41, 53, ..., and the 
numerators 7, 24, 31, ..., the approximations of the perfect fifth in these 
temperaments.



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Re: Irrational time signature and tuplets

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Jun 2014, at 22:28, Malte Meyn  wrote:

> I’m not sure whether I understood correctly, but instead of writing something 
> like
> 
> \tuplet 3/2 { c8 d e }
> 
> and hiding the tuplet number (and bracket), you can simply write
> 
> c8*2/3 d e

I haven’t used that latter notation, simply. Though LilyPond admits just a 
sequence of time value fractions, tuples come with beaming structure, so not 
really fractions 3/2 but proportions 3:2, different from 6:4, which might be a 
reason I didn’t use it. Also, I find these irregular meter tricky to get right 
in timing, so I copy in place the right \tuplet with brackets and then edit in 
the notes within the brackets. And, the use of \times is because it is some old 
code I was editing when getting this irrational meter idea.


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Re: Irrational time signature and tuplets

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Jun 2014, at 22:30, Mark Stephen Mrotek  wrote:

> (1+sqrt 5)/2 = 1.618... is the golden ratio, phi. 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
> 
> Do you know of other instances of this ratio in music?

The WP [1] mentions one other case where "irrational" in music is irrational in 
also the mathematical sense, and it is also a square root. However, I only 
found it after making this example:

The original meter [2] is written 12 = 3+2+2+3+2 subject to interpretation of 
the exact ratios, with duplets or quadruplets on the 3s, and one can also have 
triplets on the 2s, as in the example I posted. Write, as in dance notation, s 
= slow, q = quick; then the meter is s q q s q, with the original, written 
ratio s/q = 3/2.

What I did was setting s/q = x so that also (s + q)/s = x; this gives x + 1 = 
1/x, which is the defining property of the golden ration, as you can see in the 
upper right hand box in your reference [3].

Then, as LilyPond does not handle these irrational time values, the next step 
is to find rational approximations, which can be done via continued fractions 
[4]. To get the denominators, as in this reference, take the integral part of 
the number, invert the fractional part, and repeat. For the golden ratio x the 
formula 1/x = 1 + x will show the it is a sequence of 1s: 1, 1, 1, ... One can 
can see that this leads to the successive quotients of the Fibonacci series 
[5], 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, ..., where the next integer in the series is the sum 
of the two immediate preceding integers. This gives the approximations 1/1, 
2/1, 3/2, 5/3, 8/5, 13/8, ...

But the continued fractions above work with any irrational number. Another idea 
I used was making y = s/q equal to q/(s/2) = 2/y, because of the typical rhythm 
 s/2 s/2 q q s/2 s/2 q. This gives y = sqrt 2, and the continued fractions 
numbers are 1, 2, 2, 2, ..., giving rational approximations 1, 3/2, 7/5, ...

The traditional written value s/q = 3/2, x = (1+sqrt 5)/2 = 1.618..., and y = 
sqrt 2 =
1.414..., but in reality there is a lot of variation in the interpretation.

So one can play around with any mathematically irrational number. But the 
usability in music is another question.


1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature#Irrational_meters
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leventikos
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continued_fraction
5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number



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Re: Irrational time signature and tuplets

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Jun 2014, at 13:21, Malte Meyn  wrote:

> This can be done in LilyPond without using LaTeX:

Oops, a typo in the code: the tuplets should be 2:(1+sqrt 5) - I forgot to 
change in your code. So hope it’s OK now.


 IrrationalMeter.ly 

\version "2.19.6"

\header{
  title = "Exampel of irrational meter"
  subtitle = "Egejki Majki, original meter 12 = 3+2+2+3+2"
  composer = "Traditional (Macedonia)"
  copyright = "© Hans Åberg"
  tagline = ##f  % Removing "Music engraving by LilyPond (version)"
}


above = { \once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100 }
below = { \once \override TextScript #'script-priority = #-100 }


irrtuplet = \once \override TupletNumber.text =
 \markup \concat {
   "2:1+"
   \tiny "√"
   \hspace #-0.15
   \override #'(offset . -16)
   \override #'(thickness . 1.6)
   \underline "5"
 }


music = << \new Staff {
  \tempo 4 = 176
  \key d \minor

  \time 12/8
  \set beatStructure = #'(3 2 2 3 2)

  \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \override Staff.TimeSignature.text =
  \markup \override #'(baseline-skip . 0) \center-column \number {
\concat {
  "8+2"
  \tiny "√"
  \hspace #-0.2
  \override #'(offset . -25)
  \override #'(thickness . 1.6)
  \underline "5"
}
"8"
  }


  \override TupletNumber.text = #tuplet-number::calc-fraction-text

  \relative c' {
   \repeat volta 2 {
  \once \override TextScript #'padding = #1.0
  \set Staff.midiInstrument = "church organ"
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g a d,}  a'8\prall d,  a'8\prall d
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {c16 bes a g}  a8\prall g |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g a c,}  a'8\prall c,  a'8\prall d
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {c16 bes a g}  a8\prall r8 |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {b16 c d d}  d8 d
\above d8\trill^\markup{\flat}~d16 c
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {c16 d c bes}  a8\prall g |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g e g}  f8\prall e  \times 2/3 {d8 e c}
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {d16 e f g}  a8\prall g |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g e g}  f8\prall e  \times 2/3 {d8 e c}
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {\above d8\trill^\markup{\flat}~d16 a}  d8-. r8 |
  }
}
  }
>>

\score {
  \music
\layout {}
}


musicmidi = << \new Staff {
  \tempo 4. = 186
  \key d \minor

  \time 19/8
  \set beatStructure = #'(5 3 3 5 3)

  \override TupletNumber.text = #tuplet-number::calc-fraction-text

  \relative c' {
\repeat volta 2 {
  \once \override TextScript #'padding = #1.0
  \set Staff.midiInstrument = "church organ"
\once \override TupletNumber.text = 
  #(tuplet-number::fraction-with-notes "4" "4.")
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g a d,}  \tuplet 2/3 {a'32 bes32 a16 d,8}  \tuplet 2/3 
{a'32 bes32 a16 d8}
\once \override TupletNumber.text = 
  #(tuplet-number::fraction-with-notes "4" "4.")
\tuplet 2/5 {c16 bes a g}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16 g8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g a c,}  \tuplet 2/3 {a'32 bes32 a16 c,8}  \tuplet 2/3 
{a'32 bes32 a16 d8}
\tuplet 2/5 {c16 bes a g}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16 r8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {b16 c d d}  \tuplet 2/3 {d8 d}
\tuplet 2/3 {d32 es d es d16 c}
\tuplet 2/5 {c16 d c bes}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16  g8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g e g}  \tuplet 2/3 {f32 g f16 e8}  {d8 e c}
\tuplet 2/5 {d16 e f g}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16 g8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g e g}  \tuplet 2/3 {f32 g f16 e8}  {d8 e c}
\tuplet 2/5 {d32 es d es d16 a}  \tuplet 2/3 {d8-. r8} |
  }
}
  }
>>


\score {
  \unfoldRepeats
\musicmidi
\midi {}
}




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Re: Irrational time signature and tuplets

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Jun 2014, at 11:54, David Kastrup  wrote:

> Hans Aberg  writes:
> 
>> How might one display the time signature 8 + 2 sqrt(5) over 8, and the
>> tuplet 1:1 + sqrt(5), where “sqrt" is the square root sign? - It is
>> for experimenting with a popular meter in 12 [1-2].
>> 
>> 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leventikos
>> 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYR_pvRWO_g
> 
> \documentclass{article}
> \usepackage[active,textmath,displaymath,tightpage]{preview}
> \begin{document}
> $8+2\sqrt{5}\over8$
> $1\over1+\sqrt{5}$
> \end{document}
> 
> run through LaTeX, run
> dvips -E -i -Pwww
> 
> on the resulting DVI file, work with the resulting EPS files.  It might
> be cute to integrate something like that into LilyPond like
> preview-latex http://www.gnu.org/software/auctex/preview-latex>
> integrates it into Emacs editing, but that would end up to be a bunch of
> work for somebody™.

One has to wrestle a bit, but that was a part of the reason I got curious about 
it, as you note, an interesting example.

The mathematical background is that I replace the proportion 3:2 of the 
original meter in 12 with the slightly larger golden ratio x = (1 + sqrt 5)/2, 
which has as continued fraction convergents the successive ratios of the 
Fibonacci sequence 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13,... , that is, 1/1, 2/1, 3/2, 5/3, 8/5, 
13/8, ...; so here 3/2 occurs naturally.

Tying this back to LilyPond, the graphical representation will look the same, 
only that the meter and the tuplet numbers are changed. There is another 
problem in the MIDI file: how to make a better approximation than 3:2. The next 
is 5:3, but then one ends up with tuplets in the notation for the 2 over 8 
parts in the meter that must be suppressed. Doable, but a lot of typing.



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Re: Irrational time signature and tuplets

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Jun 2014, at 13:21, Malte Meyn  wrote:

> This can be done in LilyPond without using LaTeX:

I have made an example incorporating your code; it looks pretty neat. For the 
midi, I wrote out the ornaments in a separate version using the 5/3 ratio, so 
as to be closer to the (1+sqrt 5)/2 = 1.618...; so this is 19 = 5+3+3+5+3, 
instead of the traditional 12 = 3+2+2+3+2, the latter which is used as a base 
for the engraving. It is from a common tune, Egejki Majki, played by the Boys 
from Bouf/Buf in the videos [1-2]. If someone wants to make snippet, please go 
ahead!

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCDe41TtV-Y
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfyZZ8OFvvs


 IrrationalMeter.ly 

\version "2.19.6"

\header{
  title = "Exampel of irrational meter"
  subtitle = "Egejki Majki, original meter 12 = 3+2+2+3+2"
  composer = "Traditional (Macedonia)"
  copyright = "© Hans Åberg"
  tagline = ##f  % Removing "Music engraving by LilyPond (version)"
}


above = { \once \override Script #'script-priority = #-100 }
below = { \once \override TextScript #'script-priority = #-100 }


irrtuplet = \once \override TupletNumber.text =
 \markup \concat {
   "1:1+"
   \tiny "√"
   \hspace #-0.15
   \override #'(offset . -16)
   \override #'(thickness . 1.6)
   \underline "5"
 }


music = << \new Staff {
  \tempo 4 = 176
  \key d \minor

  \time 12/8
  \set beatStructure = #'(3 2 2 3 2)

  \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \override Staff.TimeSignature.text =
  \markup \override #'(baseline-skip . 0) \center-column \number {
\concat {
  "8+2"
  \tiny "√"
  \hspace #-0.2
  \override #'(offset . -25)
  \override #'(thickness . 1.6)
  \underline "5"
}
"8"
  }


  \override TupletNumber.text = #tuplet-number::calc-fraction-text

  \relative c' {
   \repeat volta 2 {
  \once \override TextScript #'padding = #1.0
  \set Staff.midiInstrument = "church organ"
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g a d,}  a'8\prall d,  a'8\prall d
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {c16 bes a g}  a8\prall g |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g a c,}  a'8\prall c,  a'8\prall d
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {c16 bes a g}  a8\prall r8 |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {b16 c d d}  d8 d
\above d8\trill^\markup{\flat}~d16 c
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {c16 d c bes}  a8\prall g |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g e g}  f8\prall e  \times 2/3 {d8 e c}
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {d16 e f g}  a8\prall g |
  \irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {f16 g e g}  f8\prall e  \times 2/3 {d8 e c}
\irrtuplet \tuplet 2/3 {\above d8\trill^\markup{\flat}~d16 a}  d8-. r8 |
  }
}
  }
>>

\score {
  \music
\layout {}
}


musicmidi = << \new Staff {
  \tempo 4. = 186
  \key d \minor

  \time 19/8
  \set beatStructure = #'(5 3 3 5 3)

  \override TupletNumber.text = #tuplet-number::calc-fraction-text

  \relative c' {
\repeat volta 2 {
  \once \override TextScript #'padding = #1.0
  \set Staff.midiInstrument = "church organ"
\once \override TupletNumber.text = 
  #(tuplet-number::fraction-with-notes "4" "4.")
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g a d,}  \tuplet 2/3 {a'32 bes32 a16 d,8}  \tuplet 2/3 
{a'32 bes32 a16 d8}
\once \override TupletNumber.text = 
  #(tuplet-number::fraction-with-notes "4" "4.")
\tuplet 2/5 {c16 bes a g}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16 g8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g a c,}  \tuplet 2/3 {a'32 bes32 a16 c,8}  \tuplet 2/3 
{a'32 bes32 a16 d8}
\tuplet 2/5 {c16 bes a g}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16 r8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {b16 c d d}  \tuplet 2/3 {d8 d}
\tuplet 2/3 {d32 es d es d16 c}
\tuplet 2/5 {c16 d c bes}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16  g8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g e g}  \tuplet 2/3 {f32 g f16 e8}  {d8 e c}
\tuplet 2/5 {d16 e f g}  \tuplet 2/3 {a32 bes32 a16 g8} |
  \tuplet 2/5 {f16 g e g}  \tuplet 2/3 {f32 g f16 e8}  {d8 e c}
\tuplet 2/5 {d32 es d es d16 a}  \tuplet 2/3 {d8-. r8} |
  }
}
  }
>>


\score {
  \unfoldRepeats
\musicmidi
\midi {}
}




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Irrational time signature and tuplets

[Hans Aberg]

How might one display the time signature 8 + 2 sqrt(5) over 8, and the tuplet 
1:1 + sqrt(5), where “sqrt" is the square root sign? - It is for experimenting 
with a popular meter in 12 [1-2].

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leventikos
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYR_pvRWO_g



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Re: A book on how music notation should look

[Hans Aberg]

On 1 Jun 2014, at 22:26, Richard Shann  wrote:

> Someone just pointed me to this source of opinion on music notation:
> 
> https://archive.org/details/EssentialDictionaryOfMusicNotation

As for the chromatic runs, an engraving of Beethoven, “Für Elise”, uses the 
notes A Bb B C C# D D# E F F# G G#, which is a choice used for meantone tunings 
(sometimes an Eb is used as well instead of D#).



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Re: Lilypond and OS-X Mavericks

[Hans Aberg]

On 8 May 2014, at 05:57, Dennis Clason  wrote:

> I’m using LilyPond 2.18.2

It seems you are using the PPC version - it does not work in OS X 10.7 or later 
(requires Rosetta). Try the x86 version, the first entry on this page [1], it 
works.

1. http://www.lilypond.org/macos-x.html



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Re: Lilypond and OS-X Mavericks

[Hans Aberg]

On 8 May 2014, at 05:57, Dennis Clason  wrote:

> I’m using LilyPond 2.18.2
> 
> I use it to prepare scores for brass quintets and quartets, but I can’t get 
> it to open from the lilypond icon.  It throws the errors that I noted 
> previously.

[Please cc the list so that others can follow the issue.]

This might be an old bug that has reappeared. In the past, there were was a 
problem with opening the GUI.

Try the unstable branch - it works in the GUI, at least LilyPond 2.19.1.

I am using it from Terminal, with a script named ‘lilypond’ in the search path 
containing
  exec /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/lilypond "$@“



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Re: Lilypond and OS-X Mavericks

[Hans Aberg]

The library /usr/lib/libobjc.A.dylib is part of the OS X 10.9.2 installation, 
it seems. So you probably to give more details what you do with LilyPond, 
version number, etc.


On 8 May 2014, at 01:03, Dennis Clason  wrote:

> Thanks, Hans.
> 
> python -V returns “Python 2.7.5”
> 
> I don’t think I have any other software that uses Python.  I have Open Office 
> (but rarely use it, because my University has standardized on MS Office), and 
> R 3.1.0.  I was having trouble with R, but that went away when I installed 
> the Mavericks build.
> 
> I try not to work in batch mode, but I may have to.
> 
> Dennis Clason
> dennis.cla...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> On May 7, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Hans Aberg  wrote:
> 
>> On 6 May 2014, at 21:33, Dennis Clason  wrote:
>> 
>>> I recently upgraded my MacBook Pro (2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 8 GB Ram) to 
>>> OS-X 10.9.2.
>>> 
>>> Lilypond no longer runs for me : (
>> 
>> LilyPond 2.19.1 works in Terminal. Have you checked that?
>> 
>> 
> 


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Re: Lilypond and OS-X Mavericks

[Hans Aberg]

On 6 May 2014, at 21:33, Dennis Clason  wrote:

> I recently upgraded my MacBook Pro (2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 8 GB Ram) to OS-X 
> 10.9.2.
> 
> Lilypond no longer runs for me : (

LilyPond 2.19.1 works in Terminal. Have you checked that?



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Re: man pages refer to older version in title

[Hans Aberg]

On 9 Dec 2013, at 22:24, Scott Miller  wrote:

> Ah! Cancel. That appears to be from the Debian stable version of lilypond on 
> the system.

Also set the environmental variable MANPATH.

>  :)



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Re: Markup on both clef and key signature

[Hans Aberg]

On 8 Nov 2013, at 17:47, Eluze  wrote:

> Hans Aberg-2 wrote
>> How are markups on both clef and key signature done?
>> 
>> The code [1] produces a warning: "Two simultaneous mark events, junking
>> this one”, omitting the key signature markup.
> 
> I think that's what http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=736 basically does

Thanks. It may be too complicated, in view of that the markup is tied to 
musical functions. There is [1], too.


1. http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=735


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Markup on both clef and key signature

[Hans Aberg]

How are markups on both clef and key signature done?

The code [1] produces a warning: "Two simultaneous mark events, junking this 
one”, omitting the key signature markup.


 1 

\version "2.17.29"

\language "english"

music = \new Staff
{
  \override Score.RehearsalMark.break-align-symbols = #'(clef)
  \clef treble
  \mark \markup { \italic E53 }

  \numericTimeSignature
  \time 4/4
  \tempo 4 = 60

  \override Score.RehearsalMark.break-align-symbols = #'(key-signature)
  \key d \phrygian
  \mark \markup { \tiny \italic "D phrygian" }

  \relative c' {
 d4 ef f g | a bf c d | ef r2. |
  }
}

\score {
  \music
}

-


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Re: Lilypond help - arbitrary accidental glyphs

[Hans Aberg]

On 30 Oct 2013, at 14:09, Clive So  wrote:

>> Note that in E31, the rational interval 7/4 is on the augmented 6th, or 25 
>> E31 tonesteps, whereas the minor 7th is on 26 E31 tonesteps, one E31 
>> tonestep higher.
> 
> Yes, absolutely! Many people think of the interval 7/4 as a type of 7th 
> (harmonic, barbershop, etc.) but I strongly believe that it should be 
> understood as an augmented 6th (125/72 ≈ 7/4). Just because it's a 7-limit 
> interval, it doesn't make it a 7th. Likewise, you don't call the JI major 3rd 
> a "5th" because it's a 5-limit interval. This has important implications in 
> terms of voice leading and harmonic progression.

The 5-limit Just minor 7th 16/9 will though cause beats with the 7/4 if the 7th 
partial is present though it is suppressed in normal orchestral playing. But I 
think this has long been known, due to the extensive treatment of the augmented 
sixth chords [1], which traditionally are always spelled like that, and not 
enharmonic exchanged with the minor 7th.

> Fokker (and hence the "Dutch school"?) happened to have chosen to use flats 
> exclusively (semi-flat, flat, sesquiflat, double-flat, and even 2½ flat!) for 
> practical reasons, but I don't agree with that as it obscures the harmonic 
> function of each note. This has the consequence that the interval 7/4 is 
> spelt, for example, as C - B-sesquiflat, making it look like a sort of 7th. 
> Although the "Dutch school" approach doesn't have the same notion of harmonic 
> function as in the traditional sense, Fokker did consider the interval 7/4 to 
> be a sort of 7th, and consequently the chord C - E - G - B-sesquiflat a 
> "dominant 7th". This is in direct contradiction with JI theory.

If 7/4 is put on the augmented sixth M6#, with m (resp. M) the minor (resp. 
major) second, M6# = m + 4M = 5M, so microtonal accidentals may not be needed 
in E31 for describing 7-limit Just intonation.


1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_sixth_chord



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Re: Lilypond help - arbitrary accidental glyphs

[Hans Aberg]

On 29 Oct 2013, at 23:26, Clive So  wrote:

> I haven't actually dreamt of using key signatures in 31TET.

Microtonal key signatures are used in Persian music, which looks nice, cf. 
Hormoz Farhat, “The Dastgah system in Persian Music”.

> There isn't a working theory of harmony yet, let alone definition of keys in 
> the traditional sense. Also, it is likely that any "key" in 31TET will have 
> more than 7 notes, but since we keep the same 7 "white" notes, key signature 
> simply cannot exist. That is unless we abandon the traditional 7 white notes 
> and redefine it all.

Note that in E31, the rational interval 7/4 is on the augmented 6th, or 25 E31 
tonesteps, whereas the minor 7th is on 26 E31 tonesteps, one E31 tonestep 
higher.

Hans



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Re: Lilypond help - arbitrary accidental glyphs

[Hans Aberg]

On 28 Oct 2013, at 21:52, Graham Breed  wrote:

 I have been studying 31 equal temperament and wish to implement Adriaan
 Fokker's notation in Lilypond. I would very much appreciate it if you could
 give me some help.
 
 In search for a solution, I found a 2008 thread between you and Graham
 Breed:
 http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Arbitrary-accidental-glyphs-td110936.html.
 This seems to correspond to my problem, but unfortunately it is way beyond
 my technical ability. I have even tried to study his codes for using
 Sagittal in Lilypond (http://x31eq.com/lilypond/), but it was again too
 technical for me. Editing the Metafont source also seems too difficult.
...
>> There seems to be a problem: Graham originally retuned pitchnamesEnglish, 
>> but that is no longer used in english.ly, which merely invokes \language 
>> ?english".
> 
> There's no need for pitchnamesEnglish any more.

I was looking at an older version you sent me, but I got your site regular.ly 
working sort of.

>> Also, there LilyPond has a separate system for key signatures, so if one 
>> wants working microtonal such, one is essentially stuck with equal 
>> temperaments a multiple of 12.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is a problem or not.  But at least conventional key 
> signatures will be retuned by regular.ly.

This seemed to work, too, but I am curious if what I did is right: it seems one 
typesets in E24, with LilyPond does not apply enharmonic equivalents. Then for 
the MIDI file, one retunes it. Is that so?

Hans



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Re: Lilypond help - arbitrary accidental glyphs

[Hans Aberg]

On 27 Oct 2013, at 23:07, Han-Wen Nienhuys  wrote:

> [+lilypond-user]
> 
> You should ask on lilypond-user
> 
> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 1:07 AM, Clive So  wrote:
>> Dear Han-Wen,
>> 
>> I have been studying 31 equal temperament and wish to implement Adriaan
>> Fokker's notation in Lilypond. I would very much appreciate it if you could
>> give me some help.
>> 
>> In search for a solution, I found a 2008 thread between you and Graham
>> Breed:
>> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Arbitrary-accidental-glyphs-td110936.html.
>> This seems to correspond to my problem, but unfortunately it is way beyond
>> my technical ability. I have even tried to study his codes for using
>> Sagittal in Lilypond (http://x31eq.com/lilypond/), but it was again too
>> technical for me. Editing the Metafont source also seems too difficult.


I was able to get compile an example with apparently working microtonal key 
signatures as well. Just make sure “regular.ly” is in the same directory as the 
attached file.

Hans



regularE31.ly
Description: Binary data


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Re: Lilypond help - arbitrary accidental glyphs

[Hans Aberg]

On 27 Oct 2013, at 23:07, Han-Wen Nienhuys  wrote:

> [+lilypond-user]
> 
> You should ask on lilypond-user
> 
> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 1:07 AM, Clive So  wrote:
>> Dear Han-Wen,
>> 
>> I have been studying 31 equal temperament and wish to implement Adriaan
>> Fokker's notation in Lilypond. I would very much appreciate it if you could
>> give me some help.
>> 
>> In search for a solution, I found a 2008 thread between you and Graham
>> Breed:
>> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Arbitrary-accidental-glyphs-td110936.html.
>> This seems to correspond to my problem, but unfortunately it is way beyond
>> my technical ability. I have even tried to study his codes for using
>> Sagittal in Lilypond (http://x31eq.com/lilypond/), but it was again too
>> technical for me. Editing the Metafont source also seems too difficult.

There seems to be a problem: Graham originally retuned pitchnamesEnglish, but 
that is no longer used in english.ly, which merely invokes \language “english". 

Also, there LilyPond has a separate system for key signatures, so if one wants 
working microtonal such, one is essentially stuck with equal temperaments a 
multiple of 12.

If you don’t actually need E31 to be played, you might use E36, E60 or 
something. I have a file for E36.

Hans



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Re: OS X 10.9!

[Hans Aberg]

Works in LilyPond 2.17.29 on a small example in Terminal. As for the 
Application, it is from an unregistered developer and Mac OS X 10.9 changes the 
settings in System Preferences -> Security & Privacy, “Allow apps from”, which 
must be altered.



On 25 Oct 2013, at 21:28, padovani  wrote:

> Anyone using one of the last development binaries in OSX 10.9?
> any known issues?
> 
> thanks!
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Re: "smart" transposition of key signatures

[Hans Aberg]

On 8 Oct 2013, at 09:41, Urs Liska  wrote:

> One thing you'd have to consider is that it isn't _always_ appropriate to 
> start the enharmonic change at exactly the same position. I've encountered 
> several instances where I had to change one voice later than the others or 
> split a long note into two enharmonically equivalent ones and add a Tie over 
> them (or rather a fake Tie/Slur, just another issue …).

Strictly speaking, you are indicating where you want the pitch to slip.





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NR 2.6.2 Bagpipes

[Hans Aberg]

The GHB or Great Highland Bagpipe, is tuned in A mixolydian, often considerably 
higher than the standard pitch, up towards A = 480 Hz. The manual [1], 
"Bagpipes", 2.6.2, calls it D major, and omits the "Great" in the name of the 
bagpipe. Cf. [2], and net-searches on "GHB mixolydian".

1. http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.17/Documentation/notation/bagpipes
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Highland_Bagpipe



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Re: bagpipe manual

[Hans Aberg]

On 6 Oct 2013, at 23:33, Noeck  wrote:

> reading this section of the manual (2.16 as well as 2.17):
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/bagpipes

Also, the GHB is tuned in A mixolydian, often considerably higher than the 
standard pitch, up towards A = 480 Hz.



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Re: How to connect Midi keyboard to Lilypond?

[Hans Aberg]

On 25 Sep 2013, at 20:20, searchfgold6789  wrote:

> I was looking for a way to create Lilypond files at a better speed than just
> typing them by hand. Someone suggested I use my computer keyboard as a MIDI
> keyboard. 

An article about using a plugin for jEdit.

http://www.musicbyandrew.ca/finale-lilypond-4.html


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Re: convert-ly on Mac?

[Hans Aberg]

On 25 Sep 2013, at 02:58, Steve Noland  wrote:

> Is the convert-ly utility available with the MacIntosh installation?  If not, 
> how would I install it on a Mac?

I have a script 'convert-ly' in the search PATH containing the line
 exec /Applications/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/convert-ly "$@"



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Re: 8 marking on piano piece

[Hans Aberg]

On 28 Jun 2013, at 10:42, Peter Toye  wrote:

> But I'm a bit worried that you're setting the Songs of Travel at all. RVW 
> died in 1958 and is still in copyright, at least in the UK (I don't know 
> where you are).

It varies: the US did not extend this rule retroactively.

Hans




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Re: Lilypond in Mac OS X Terminal

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Dec 2012, at 21:16, Eric Pancer wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 2:14 PM, David Kastrup  wrote:
>> The libexec route appears to cater for all of that.  We should use bin
>> just for executables supposed to be entry points of LilyPond.
> 
> Please, no!
> 
> From man 1 hier
>  libexec/  system daemons & system utilities (executed by
> other programs)
...
> local/executables, libraries, etc. not included by the
> basic operating system

There is a Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
  http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard

Hans



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Re: Lilypond in Mac OS X Terminal

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Dec 2012, at 23:50, Eric Pancer wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Hans Aberg  wrote:
>> On 12 Dec 2012, at 21:16, Eric Pancer wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 2:14 PM, David Kastrup  wrote:
>>>> The libexec route appears to cater for all of that.  We should use bin
>>>> just for executables supposed to be entry points of LilyPond.
>>> 
>>> Please, no!
>>> 
>>> From man 1 hier
>>> libexec/  system daemons & system utilities (executed by
>>>other programs)
>> ...
>>>local/executables, libraries, etc. not included by the
>>>basic operating system
>> 
>> There is a Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
>>  http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
>>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
> 
> Right, like hier(1) describes. FHS looks to be rather Linux-specific.
> Correct me if I'm wrong.

Linux is a strictly speaking a kernel, like Mac OS X is running the kernel 
Mach, often combined with what is called GNU OS. Mac OS X derives originally 
from FreeBSD.

As for the standard, it is a development of BSD old traditions. So a similar 
origin of OSs make them putting stuff in similar places, but with some 
differences.

As for the POSIX/UNIX standards, they have no so such requirements, so in 
general, there can be quite some variation.

Hans



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Re: Lilypond in Mac OS X Terminal

[Hans Aberg]

On 12 Dec 2012, at 16:32, David Kastrup wrote:

> Paul Morris  writes:
> 
>> On Dec 12, 2012, at 9:31 AM, Parham FH  wrote:
>> 
>>> I am curious if it is possible to run lilypond from the Mac OS X 
>>> (my case: 10.6.8) terminal
>> 
>> Instructions are here:
>> http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/web/macos-x
>> 
>> "Running on the command-line"
> 
> Stupid question: why would one create executable shims to something like
> DIR/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/* in ~/bin and then add ~/bin to
> one's PATH when one can just add
> DIR/LilyPond.app/Contents/Resources/bin/ instead?  Is DIR expected to
> contain stuff that is bad for PATH?

This directory contains other stuff that might be conflicting with other same 
named executable. For example, ps2pdf and such comes with the TeXLive 
installation.

Hans



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Re: how to call these notes?

[Hans Aberg]

Article "appoggiatura" says: "The 19th century brought still further changes in 
the treatment of the appoggiatura. The long appoggiatura became absorbed in the 
ordinary notation, and the short appoggiatura was invariably indicated by a 
small note with a single stroke across its stem, called a grace note or 
(erroneously) an acciaccatura."

So it suggests that the stroked grace notes became the normal way of notate in 
the 19th century. But you need to check what is notated in the original 
manuscript, because engravers may at will translate into modern notation.


On 17 Oct 2012, at 15:47, Mark Stephen Mrotek wrote:

> The Harvard Concise is not in my possession.  I do have a copy of Haydn's
> Keyboard Concerto No. 11 in D. The acciaccatura (small eight notes with
> diagonal stroke "tied" to the principal note) appears multiple times in the
> first and third movements. This concerto was published in 1782.
> 
> Mark Stephen Mrotek
> 
> 
> On 16 Oct 2012, at 19:20, David Rogers wrote:
> 
>> I don't have any of the engraving manuals - what is this note called 
>> in those books? It would probably be better to go along with the 
>> "industry standard name", even if that name turns out not to be 
>> perfect.
> 
> The Harvard Concise says that originally (c. 1675-1725), acciaccatura was
> the crush, but it did not have a special notation. The others are all called
> appoggiatura. The slashed grace note notation was invented in the 19th
> century, and some came to incorrectly call them acciaccatura. Lilypond
> propagates this misconception with \acciaccatura.
> 
> Hans
> 
> 


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Re: how to call these notes?

[Hans Aberg]

On 16 Oct 2012, at 19:20, David Rogers wrote:

> I don't have any of the engraving manuals - what is this note called
> in those books? It would probably be better to go along with the
> "industry standard name", even if that name turns out not to be
> perfect.

The Harvard Concise says that originally (c. 1675-1725), acciaccatura was the 
crush, but it did not have a special notation. The others are all called 
appoggiatura. The slashed grace note notation was invented in the 19th century, 
and some came to incorrectly call them acciaccatura. Lilypond propagates this 
misconception with \acciaccatura.

Hans



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Re: F-flat Key Signature

[Hans Aberg]

On 19 Sep 2012, at 18:42, Urs Liska wrote:

>> Just write e-major and the musicans will be thankfull ;-).

> But F flat _is_ different from E, especially in its relationship to other, 
> 'normal' keys. F flat has a quite simple relation to G flat that might happen 
> in real music. So I'm happy that LilyPond offers to explicitely write it down 
> instead of refusing to do things, _she_ considers useless. Even if I'd 
> probably never use it …

Indeed, they are only equivalent in E12, and otherwise used as a notational and 
practical simplification, as Hindemith, "Elementary Training", p. 147, 
mentions. Strictly speaking, the pitch will slip. In E31 that would be one E31 
tonestep, 1200/31 or about 38.710 cents.

Hans



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Re: Ambitus-Bug

[Hans Aberg]

On 15 Sep 2012, at 19:59, Keith OHara wrote:

> If one sets the actual tuning in LilyPond, so that she knows that E-sharp
> is a slightly higher pitch than F, she will make the ambitus consistently.
> 
> Maybe not everyone agrees with me that E-sharp is a higher pitch than F.

It depends on the tuning. In Pythagorean tuning, the sharp alteration interval 
is larger than the minor second, but in meantone tuning, the case is the 
opposite.

Hans



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Re: LC_PAPER and default paper size

[Hans Aberg]

On 30 Aug 2012, at 08:55, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:

> I always try to set the borders in my scores wide enough so that at least 
> everything will be readable on both A4 and Letter pages, even though the 
> score has been created and tested for a4 paper.
> 
> QUESTION:
> 
> This reminds of a question I have had for some time: I would like - for 
> testing purposes - draw/print a box exactly around the page borders of my 
> score. This way I want to be able to preview what a page would look like for 
> example on a5 paper, or on iPad or Postcard dimensions, even if I print it on 
> a4 paper. Can this be achieved with some lilypond/scheme magick ?

Perhaps an option where you specify both paper sizes, and music is drawn within 
the smallest rectangle of them.

Hans



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Re: Lilypond 2.16.0 released!

[Hans Aberg]

On 27 Aug 2012, at 00:07, Graham Percival wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 11:15:13AM +0200, Hans Aberg wrote:
>> This page says "MacOS X 10.7 Lion is not yet supported", but the Intel 
>> version GUI works on 10.7.4, and for the LilyPond PPC version, it will never 
>> be supported as 10.7 cannot run it (10.6 could run it via the Rosetta 
>> emulator, but it is not available on 10.7).
>>  http://lilypond.org/macos-x.html
> 
> Thanks for the report, this was added as
>  http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=2774

Great! Colin also mentioned it on the Bug-Lilypond list.

Hans



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Re: Lilypond 2.16.0 released!

[Hans Aberg]

On 24 Aug 2012, at 17:01, Graham Percival wrote:

> We are proud to announce the release of GNU LilyPond 2.16.0.

This page says "MacOS X 10.7 Lion is not yet supported", but the Intel version 
GUI works on 10.7.4, and for the LilyPond PPC version, it will never be 
supported as 10.7 cannot run it (10.6 could run it via the Rosetta emulator, 
but it is not available on 10.7).
  http://lilypond.org/macos-x.html

In addition, as for the script on that page, on 10.7, if one does not want to 
change PATH, one can put it into /usr/local/bin/, which is included in the 
system defined PATH.

Hans

 


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Re: when will Lilypond work with Lion OSX?

[Hans Aberg]

On 8 Aug 2012, at 18:29, Zae Munn wrote:

> I am teaching a Music and Digital Media class beginning next January and would
> like to spend some time looking at alternatives to Finale. I would like to
> include Lilypond in this, but I see that it is not yet compatible with Lion.  
> Do
> you have an idea when this might happen?

The GUI of the unstable version works. I just tried 2.15.41.

Normally I run lilypond from Terminal, via a script, using a text editor to 
create the text. Any text editor will work (I use Xcode), but some are able to 
display lilypond syntax - there have been some discussions about this.

Hans



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Re: Installing LilyPond man pages

[Hans Aberg]

On 15 Jul 2012, at 19:58, macula wrote:

> For the life of me, I have been trying to make the LilyPond man pages
> accessible on MacOS. I am a reasonably experienced user of the Mac terminal
> (Bash shell) but this seemingly simple challenge has defeated me. I have
> tinkered with the /etc/man.conf file, tried the "manpaths.d" method, even
> tried to just dump the LilyPond man files in the standard
> /usr/local/share/man. Nothing, absolutely nothing has been successful.

One can set the MANPATH variable, say in the file ~/.profile.

So they do not have to be anywhere specific - the LilyPond application might be 
distributed with the documentation in it.

Hans




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Re: notation for the Celtic bow movement called a cut

[Hans Aberg]

On 21 Mar 2012, at 01:41, Tom Tobin wrote:

> I'd like to request a feature for Lilypond, if it hasn't been requested 
> already.
> There is a musical expression in Irish, Scottish, and Cape Breton fiddling,
> called a cut.  It is a quick flick of the fiddler's bow wrist, to cause the 
> bow
> to change direction three times.

A quick net-search on Irish fiddling gives several meaning for the word "cut". 
The book by Miles Krassen, "O'Neill's music of Ireland New & Revisited" has a 
section "Ornamentation in Irish music", which does not use the term, but just 
describes the ornaments in traditional terms. For example, a bowed triplet is 
written with traditional bowing signs, and it can often be interchangeable with 
a roll. The bowed triplet can also be performed with the third note different 
from the two first.

Hans



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Re: time signature question

[Hans Aberg]

On 26 Feb 2012, at 20:06, David Kastrup wrote:

>>> this is almost cute enough for a bounty:
>> 
>> It works exactly as I had hoped.
>> What's a reasonable fee for your effort?
> 
> Hard to say.  Writing this up now was good for about €18 (5 minutes was
> a bit boastful as an estimate, even though this went through without
> major puzzlers).  If you want to show your appreciation that I was
> responsible for a lot of the infrastructure actually turning this into a
> straightforward job, you can take your pick of either
> 
> a) doubling the amount
> 
> b) creating and "issueing" a nice snippet from it (probably using
>   something like \repeat unfold 7 c'8. or so as a somewhat more
>   illustrative content) and going through all the motions until it has
>   made its way into the LilyPond documentation.
> 
> I think that this code would make for a nice snippet.  It exercises a
> fair bit of functionality without major distractions in between.

It would be nice if it would make it into the LilyPond distribution.

The snippet is equivalent to
  \time 21/16
  \set beatStructure = #'(3 3 3 3 3 3 3)
and then set time signature style (which I think possibly is called "visual"). 
(Just count sequences of equal notes, and put a count number above.)

If there in the future is an extension to more complex meters, this style would 
fit nicely. WP says that though only few composers use it, it is more common in 
music education.

Carl Orff, in Carmina Burana, actually wrote it with a slash "/" above, once 
for the whole orchestral score. Also, for some reason, in the music, he write 
the stems always to the right, for some reason, but it is not typeset that way.

As for other styles, one might just write the 21/16 and let the beaming tell 
the metric grouping, but a nice variation someone here had was to write the 
decomposition above the time signature. In this case, this would have been the 
"+" notation 3+3+3+3+3+3+3, which tends to be long. So this "visual" style 
might be used here, too.

Hans



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Re: spam

[Hans Aberg]

On 22 Feb 2012, at 22:13, Tim Roberts wrote:

>> It may look a bit mysterious at this end, because it gives an impression of 
>> somebody hacking the mailing list, whereas in reality, the mail account has 
>> been hacked. One way to do the latter is to install a key logger in Internet 
>> cafes, a method common in some parts of the world, I am told.
> 
> There is now a simple tool floating around the hacker community that
> does a brute-force dictionary attack on a mail server.  You give it a
> server name and a list of known email accounts, and it tries hundreds of
> thousands of common passwords.  Once they have your password, they can
> send mail through your server as if they were you.  Your account and
> your server get blacklisted, and it takes you days to wade through the
> millions of spam bounce messages you get in reply.
> 
> The tool is simple enough that anyone can run it.  And since many
> people use simple passwords (like "password"), they generally get a hit
> pretty quickly.  If your email password is a simple word, NOW is the
> time to change it.  Use capitals, lower case, numbers, and symbols, if
> your provider allows them.  Consider, for example, using a phrase.  For
> example, "I love to play music".  Convert the "to" to "2", add an
> exclamation, and you might get "Il2pm!".  That's easy to remember but
> not easy to guess.

These days one can use a password entropy calculator - net searches on these 
words give several hits. Cf.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(information_theory)

On OS X, there is one in System Preferences -> Users & Groups -> Change 
Password, and click on the key icon. To see the entropy, hold the pointer still 
over the over the quality bar. For example, "helloworld" gets entropy 13.0 
(poor), but "h e l l o  w o r l d !" get entropy 130.0 (good).

Hans



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Re: spam

[Hans Aberg]

On 22 Feb 2012, at 20:32, Bob Proulx wrote:

> Hans Aberg wrote:
>> Xavier Scheuer wrote:
>>> AFAICS all these spam mails passing through the lilypond-user mailing
>>> list come from only one e-mail address:
>>> Steven Padalino 
>>> 
>>> I suppose this e-mail address is subscribed to lilypond-user mailing
>>> list, otherwise the list moderators would not have allowed these
>>> messages.
>> 
>> It seems to be a regular user, active with a few posts in 2008,
>> whose acoount has been hacked: first spam from 20 February this
>> year.
> 
> Correct.  Unfortunately hacked mail accounts seem to be on the rise
> lately.  It isn't unusual to see an address from a currently active
> member posting spam these days due to a hacked account.

It may look a bit mysterious at this end, because it gives an impression of 
somebody hacking the mailing list, whereas in reality, the mail account has 
been hacked. One way to do the latter is to install a key logger in Internet 
cafes, a method common in some parts of the world, I am told.

> In any case, thanks for reporting this problem to the mailing list
> owner.  The address has been removed from the subscription list.

Also, I have seen spam from some hacked Windows computers - they are taken over 
and becomes spambots.

So both reasons make it important to notify the owner of an account.

FYI, here is an even worse case, impersonation of James Kass, the author of 
Code200x fonts.
  http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2012-m02/

Hans



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Re: spam

[Hans Aberg]

On 22 Feb 2012, at 14:00, Xavier Scheuer wrote:

> 2012/2/22 Luca Rossetto Casel :
>> 
>> Yes, I received two or three spam mails in the latter days...
> 
> AFAICS all these spam mails passing through the lilypond-user mailing
> list come from only one e-mail address:
>  Steven Padalino 
> 
> I suppose this e-mail address is subscribed to lilypond-user mailing
> list, otherwise the list moderators would not have allowed these
> messages.

It seems to be a regular user, active with a few posts in 2008, whose acoount 
has been hacked: first spam from 20 February this year.

Hans




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Re: Thinking about putting together a grant to support development on LilyPond

[Hans Aberg]

On 8 Feb 2012, at 20:57, Nils wrote:

> The reason is that musicology here has more to do with Biographics or 
> Sociology. Music instrument training, notation knowledge or other 
> fundamentals of music are not required to study or teach it (University 
> Level) it in Germany. Search instead for Music Theorists, which is a seperate 
> thing here. Often combined with historical composition, it is then called 
> "Tonsatz". http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonsatz . No English translation.

In English, it is "musical composition".
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_composition
This article is linked back to the German
  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komposition_(Musik)
The Swedish WP entry "Tonsättning" redirects to "Komposition", which is linked 
to the English article above.

Paul Hindemith's book "Unterweisung im Tonsatz" is in English "The Craft of 
Musical Composition".

Hans



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Re: Roadblock MacOSX 10.4 for release of LilyPond 2.16

[Hans Aberg]

On 3 Feb 2012, at 20:26, James wrote:
 
 Quick search shows 10.5 for between $200-300. Definite ouch,
 especially for a dead-end OS, IMO.
>>> 
>>> Since it seems to have been discontinued, there is no way to ensure that 
>>> was is sold is legal.
>>> 
>>> As for 10.7, one can create an install DVD - just net search. It can then 
>>> be installed on a blank hard drive.
>>> 
>> 
>> But one cannot install 10.7 on PPC hardware, which is at the root of the 
>> issue.
> 
> Correct and you cannot always install 10.5 on PPC even though others
> say they have. It depends on the hardware. I believe that the EFI is
> checked (or some such hardware setting - CPU?) as my own sister found
> out on her mac mini (first gen) the DVD I had for 10.5 said that the
> hardware was incompatible with the 10.5 installation. 

Have you tried this:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Leopard#Usage_on_unsupported_hardware

Hans




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Re: Roadblock MacOSX 10.4 for release of LilyPond 2.16

[Hans Aberg]

On 3 Feb 2012, at 17:30, James Worlton wrote:

> Quick search shows 10.5 for between $200-300. Definite ouch,
> especially for a dead-end OS, IMO.

Since it seems to have been discontinued, there is no way to ensure that was is 
sold is legal.

As for 10.7, one can create an install DVD - just net search. It can then be 
installed on a blank hard drive.

Hans



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Re: Mac OS X package up for testing

[Hans Aberg]

On 21 Jan 2012, at 14:55, m...@apollinemike.com wrote:

> Thanks to the work of Christian Hitz and Graham Percival, there is a new 
> 2.15.26 package for Mac OS X available on my website:
> 
> http://www.apollinemike.com/lilypond/lilypond-2.15.26-1.darwin-x86.tar.bz2
> http://www.apollinemike.com/lilypond/lilypond-2.15.26-1.darwin-ppc.tar.bz2
> 
> Could Mac OS X users please give it a spin by opening LilyPad, running the 
> test file, and reporting back what happens?

Works on OS X 10.7.2, using another test file, though the version in Finder is 
reported as 2.15.22.

Hans



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Re: ISMLP/WIMA (?)

[Hans Aberg]

On 19 Jan 2012, at 21:58, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

> On Thu, 2012-01-19 at 11:05 -0800, Bernardo Barros wrote:
>>> Open software people tend to consider artists as being
>>> equivalent to programmers, so they think artists
>>> should starve. I have no sympathy with that view.
>>> Obviously. Knowledge should be free, Yale to the
>>> contrary. Art shouldn't be free until the artist gets his.
>> 
>> The source code of the lilypond score is not the `music' or even
>> `art', so maybe people get confused.
> 
> That is true of the program code, but not the data.

According to the WIPO Copyright Treaty, computer programs are protected as 
literary works as in the Berne Convention:
  http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/wct/trtdocs_wo033.html#P56_5626

> The
> document must carry a copyright notice if it contains
> the notes, because it is the composition written in a
> form of musical notation. The complete source, published
> with a copyright notice, would copyright the piece. 
> Published without the notice, all copyright would be
> lost.


This is not the case in the US since 1989:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_notice

Hans



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Re: ISMLP/WIMA (?)

[Hans Aberg]

It is pretty creative - I haven't seen that before! :-)

Hans


On 18 Jan 2012, at 19:37, PMA wrote:

> Sorry, forgot to erase my top-post after copying it to the bottom.

It is pretty creative - I haven't seen that before! :-)

Hans



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Re: ISMLP/WIMA (?)

[Hans Aberg]

On 18 Jan 2012, at 01:54, PMA wrote:

> Thanks Hans.  As I (don't really) understand, ISMLP requires
> a contributor of copyrighted materials to agree to their being
> licensed *as* public domain.
> 
> Obviously for a clear view, I've got more homework ahead

Public domain means that the copyright has been rescinded, and you should never 
do that, because it means that others can freely exploit the work against your 
wish.

>From what I can see, ISMLP has works for which the copyright has expired, so 
>that is in the public domain, then. But as others have pointed out here, they 
>also admit works to submitted under a Creative Commons license, which is then 
>still under copyright.

There you should check what time duration they require - if you have the 
copyright, you decide the commercial redistribution terms at all times. So if 
you put it up there, and want to change it later, make sure there will be no 
problems there.

Hans



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Re: ISMLP/WIMA (?)

[Hans Aberg]

On 16 Jan 2012, at 02:26, PMA wrote:

> I'm considering posting my scores on WIMA (now via ISMLP),
> and would much appreciate comment from any of you who
> have had experience in going that route.
> 
> Most especialy, I'm wondering what regrets you may have
> faced after agreeing to the diluted copyright protections.

Above all, make sure to keep your copyright. But if you will put it up in 
public, it will be downloaded and probably redistributed as though being in 
public. You still retain the copyright though, and can formally control 
commercial redistribution.

In the USA and Sweden there is no legal requirement having a copyright notice 
anymore, though it clarifies. If you want to grant permissions, that is 
expressed through a license. You might have look at this link:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons

Hans



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