Re: Bach ornaments

[Kees van den Doel]

Thanks!

On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 11:35 PM Werner LEMBERG  wrote:
>
> From: Kees van den Doel 
> Subject: Re: Bach ornaments
> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2023 23:12:03 -0700
>
> >> > Are the ornaments used in Bach's music available in Lilypond?
> >
> >> Not all of them currently.  There is GSoC project that – assuming it
> >> is taken by a potential student – would probably add some missing
> >> ones.
> >
> > Thanks. And where can I find the ones that are currently available?
> >
> > Kees
>
> Here is how I looked it up to get the table of articulations:
>
>   lilypond.org
>   → Manual 2.24.1
>   → Notation syntax reference
>   → LilyPond index (scroll down the left panel)
>   → Jump to: O
>   → ornament, mordent
>   → List of articulations
>   → Ornament scripts
>
>   
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/notation/list-of-articulations#ornament-scripts
>
>
> Werner

Re: Bach ornaments

[Kees van den Doel]

> > Are the ornaments used in Bach's music available in Lilypond?

> Not all of them currently.  There is GSoC project that – assuming it
> is taken by a potential student – would probably add some missing
> ones.

Thanks. And where can I find the ones that are currently available?

Kees

Bach ornaments

[Kees van den Doel]

Are the ornaments used in Bach's music available in Lilypond?

These ones: http://www.jsbach.net/images/ornaments.html

Thanks,
Kees

da capo and MIDI

[Kees van den Doel]

Is there a way to get correct MIDI when using \repeat volta and
\unfoldrepeats with a DC al fine? I.e., make the MIDI stop at the "fine"
second time through.
Thanks,
Kees

alternate in middle of repeat

[Kees van den Doel]

I have a \repeat volta 2 { music}, but a few bars inside "music" are
different the second time through.
Is there a way to do something like this:
\repeat volta 2 { A \alternative {{a1}{a2}} B}
Written out fully Aa1BAa2B.

Re: lyrics and melismas

[Kees van den Doel]

Darn, of course I find it in the docs as soon as I ask:

melisma

\melismaEnd


On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 9:59 PM Kees van den Doel  wrote:

> I'd like to indicate long melismas in the notes instead of counting - - -
> in the lyrics, but I don't want a gigantic slur showing.
> Is there an alternative to using () slur marks to do this?
> Thanks,
> Kees
>
>

lyrics and melismas

[Kees van den Doel]

I'd like to indicate long melismas in the notes instead of counting - - -
in the lyrics, but I don't want a gigantic slur showing.
Is there an alternative to using () slur marks to do this?
Thanks,
Kees

Re: how to not specify midi instrument?

[Kees van den Doel]

On Sat, Aug 28, 2021 at 3:00 PM Lukas-Fabian Moser  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> Tom Sgouros  schrieb am Sa., 28. Aug. 2021, 23:47:
>
>> Hello all:
>>
>> The Frescobaldi people pointed their fingers back at Lilypond, of course.
>> Can anyone tell me the easiest way to convert a Midi file into
>> human-readable events so I can show them there is no Program Change event
>> in the file? All the Midi programs I know about are altogether too
>> user-friendly for that kind of detail.
>>
>
MidiQuickFix.jar

>
> On Linux, there is midicsv which does exactly what you describe.
>
> Lukas
>

Re: Gracenote bug?

[Kees van den Doel]

A 14 year old bug must be some sort of record.
Workaround seems to put a grace note in all voices, but use 's' to make
unwanted ones invisible.

Cheers,
Kees

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:41 AM Aaron Hill 
wrote:

> On 2021-08-23 11:30 am, Kees van den Doel wrote:
> > Trying to shift a note away from the barline which it's touching by
> > adding
> > a \grace s16, but I ran into what appears a bug?
> > [ . . . ]
>
> One of the longest-standing bugs, in fact.  See [1].
>
> [1]: https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/34
>
>
> -- Aaron Hill
>

Gracenote bug?

[Kees van den Doel]

Trying to shift a note away from the barline which it's touching by adding
a \grace s16, but I ran into what appears a bug?

\version "2.22.1"

mus = \relative {
  \repeat volta 2 {
c'1
  }
  \alternative {
{ c1}
{ \grace c16 c1}
  }
}
musb = \relative {
  \repeat volta 2 {
c'1
  }
  \alternative {
{ c1}
{c1}
  }
}
\score {
  \new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff <<
  \musb
>>
\new Staff <<
  \mus
>>
  >>
}


test1.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: Adjusting horizontal space from notehead to bar line

[Kees van den Doel]

Forgot to reply-all again, sorry. Picture of my problem attached as
well.Seems to be caused by the volta repeat bar as the single barlines are
OK.
[image: Image1.png]

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 10:28 AM Kees van den Doel  wrote:

> I have a similar problem but only in one place and it's worse: the stem of
> the 1st note touches the barline and is unreadable.
> Everything else is fine, so I would just want to move that one note.
>
> Is there some \once \override I could use to move this 1st note? Or to
> adjust some property of that barline but how, as the barline does not
> appear in the music explicitly?
>
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:41 AM Matthew Fong  wrote:
>
>> Hello fellow Lilyponders,
>>
>> I'm looking around the documentation on NoteHead to Barline spacing, and
>> I'm not finding much? Any pointers will be helpful.
>>
>> My goal is to add a bit more space from the first note to the last
>> Barline, for every measure. It seems a bit too close even with the staff
>> size and LyricText size I am using. For example, the F for 'splen' in third
>> measure, or the A for 'Life' after the double bar.
>>
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> mattfong
>>
>> [image: NoteheadSpacingToBarline.png]
>>
>

Fwd: 5.6.1 Substitution function syntax

[Kees van den Doel]

Forgot mailinglist, sorry.

-- Forwarded message -
From: Kees van den Doel 
Date: Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: 5.6.1 Substitution function syntax
To: Jean Abou Samra 


Thanks Jean, David,

That clarifies it, subtle stuff!

Kees

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 11:45 AM Jean Abou Samra  wrote:

>
>
> Le 11/08/2021 à 20:24, David Kastrup a écrit :
> > Kees van den Doel  writes:
> >
> >> Referring to
> >>
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/substitution-function-syntax
> >>
> >> I don't understand this sentence explanating "...music...":
> >>
> >>> normal LilyPond input, using $ (in places where only LilyPond
> constructs
> >> are allowed) or # (to use it as a Scheme value or music function
> argument
> >> or music inside of music >lists) to reference arguments (eg. ‘#arg1’).
> >>
> >> The next section in the docs with examples has no example of use of '$'.
> >> When should I use $?
> > In a nutshell, when # does not work.  The syntax of an expression is
> > decided before even looking at the value of the expression after # .  So
> > # in a certain place will only accept a certain type.
> >
> > For example, inside of { }, an expression started with # has to be a
> > music expression, while $ allows expressions of type duration, pitch,
> > post-event and probably others, integrating/converting them in the
> > expected manner to music.
> >
> > $ first looks at the expression's type and then decides about its
> > syntactic properties.  Since the LilyPond expression parser works with
> > lookahead for disambiguating expressions, that means that such
> > expressions may be evaluated earlier than expected by the user.
> >
> > So generally # causes fewer syntactic surprises but is less flexible.
> > Also it does not copy music expressions but takes them as-is.  That can
> > cause a difference in some cases.
>
>
> Some examples are found in
>
>
> https://extending-lilypond.readthedocs.io/en/latest/lily-and-scheme.html#hash-vs-dollar
>

5.6.1 Substitution function syntax

[Kees van den Doel]

Referring to
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/substitution-function-syntax

I don't understand this sentence explanating "...music...":

>normal LilyPond input, using $ (in places where only LilyPond constructs
are allowed) or # (to use it as a Scheme value or music function argument
or music inside of music >lists) to reference arguments (eg. ‘#arg1’).

The next section in the docs with examples has no example of use of '$'.
When should I use $?

Thanks,
Kees

Re: Problem with blackpetrucci

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi Lukas,

Funny I sent an email to the author (as on his website) Lukas but it
bounced and he seemed to have vanished from the internet in 2011
I then realize how stupid I was as Lukas has been posting here all the time.
I now realize it's worse than that, sorry for my confusion :)

Appreciate your work all the more, it's a shame to let blackmensural.ly bitrot
away.
Has anyone heard from the author since 2011?

Cheers,
Kees



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On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 9:37 AM Lukas-Fabian Moser  wrote:

> Hi Kees,
>
> Am 07.08.21 um 18:41 schrieb Kees van den Doel:
> > Great, you are updating it!
> > Yes ligatures and accidentals didn't work. I mixed in normal LP ones
> > but it looks very ugly.
> >
> > I had some questions I sent to your email on your webpage but it bounced:
>
> This sounds to me as if you're mistaking me for the other Lukas (Lukas
> Pietsch) who created blackmensural.ly ten years ago. Unfortunately, I'm
> not, and I wouldn't have had the abilities to do what he did. I just did
> the (comparatively trivial) task of trying to update the syntax and
> accomodating for some changes in LilyPond's internal workings.
>
> But I'll be happy to look into the issues you reported.
>
> Lukas
>
>
>

Re: Problem with blackpetrucci

[Kees van den Doel]

One more thing, if I add a \midi {} block I get warnings :

mintty screen dump

testblack.ly:11:5: warning: cannot create context: BlackMensuralStaff
= cantus
   \new BlackMensuralStaff = "cantus"<<
testblack.ly:13:7: warning: cannot create
context: BlackMensuralVoice = cantus
 \new
BlackMensuralVoice = "cantus" {
blackmensural.ly:369:37: In procedure list-ref in expression (list-ref
notes imiddle):
  blackmensural.ly:369:37: Argument 2 out of range: 0


On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:41 AM Kees van den Doel  wrote:

> Great, you are updating it!
> Yes ligatures and accidentals didn't work. I mixed in normal LP ones but
> it looks very ugly.
>
> I had some questions I sent to your email on your webpage but it bounced:
>
> Is there a way to control the size of the notes and other things? I want
> to perform directly from the original notation but I can't seem to scale
> the size up. Also I managed to use your mix in special caudata notes into
> modern scores but their size doesn't match and doesn't scale.
>
> Another question I have is how to mix normal staffs with BlackMensural
> staffs in one StaffGroup. I want to have a blackmensural staff above the
> modern transcription staff but when I add a BlackMensural staff at the top
> it always appears below all the other normal Staffs.
>
> Cheers,
> Kees
>
>
>
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>
>
> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 4:53 AM Lukas-Fabian Moser  wrote:
>
>> Hi Kees,
>> Am 06.08.21 um 19:07 schrieb Kees van den Doel:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 8:39 PM Kees van den Doel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But there's also blackmensural.ly by Lukas Pietsch; it's quite old (and
>>>> to be honest I don't know it at all and can't say how it deals with your
>>>> problem), but maybe it's of use to you:
>>>> http://www.lukas-pietsch.de/Music/
>>>>
>>>
>>> I got everything to work fine, except the special note shapes.
>>> Interestingly the blackmensural. <http://blackmensural.ly/>pdf is
>>> illustrated with the begin of the same piece I'm typesetting and has those
>>> note shapes perfectly.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately it doesn't work with 2.22 and convert-ly gives a long list
>>> of errors to fix manually which is beyond my capability.
>>>
>>
>> Actually, despite getting many warnings like below, blackmensural.ly
>> seems to work fine. It's actually quite wonderful and complete and has
>> everything one needs to typeset music from before ~1450.
>>
>> Actually, I _think_ the ligature code cannot have worked with 2.22; did
>> you try it? (It relied on ancient LilyPond's habit of wrapping everything
>> in EventChords.)
>>
>> I had time now to look through blackmensural.ly and update it a bit to
>> accomodate for part of what's changed in LilyPond in the last ten years.
>> Now it compiles without complaints on my 2.22.0, see attached.
>>
>> And oh gosh golly, has LilyPond's scheme integration simplified over that
>> time! (I think thanks to David K.) Behold: Instead of
>>
>>  (make-music
>>'ContextSpeccedMusic
>>'context-type 'Staff
>>'element
>>  (make-music
>>'SequentialMusic
>>'elements (list
>>  (make-music
>>'OverrideProperty
>>'symbol 'Clef
>>'grob-property-path (list 'stencil)
>>'grob-value mystencil)
>>  (make-music; dummy setting
>>'PropertySet
>>'symbol 'clefGlyph
>>'value "clefs.C")
>>  (make-music
>>'PropertySet
>>'symbol 'middleCClefPosition
>>'value midCpos)
>>  (make-music
>>'PropertySet
>>'symbol 'clefPosition
>>'value linepos)
>>  (make-music
>>'ApplyContext
>>'procedure ly:set-middle-C!)
>>   )))
>>
>> we may now write
>>
>> #{
>>   \context Staff {
>> \override Staff.Clef.stencil

Re: barline

[Kees van den Doel]

Thanks!

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 1:53 AM Lukas-Fabian Moser  wrote:

> Hi Kees,
>
> Am 07.08.21 um 08:12 schrieb Kees van den Doel:
> > How can I get all barlines to look like ticks?   As in \bar "'".
> > I got from manual
> >
> > \set Staff.whichBar = "'"
> >
> > but that puts a bar between every note.
> >
> > \override BarLine.glyph = #"'"
>
> That's the final information in
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/bars.html#bar-lines
> :
>
> \version "2.22.0"
>
> \layout {
>\set Timing.defaultBarType = "'"
> }
>
> {
>\repeat unfold 100 c'4
> }
>
> Lukas
>
>

Re: Problem with blackpetrucci

[Kees van den Doel]

Great, you are updating it!
Yes ligatures and accidentals didn't work. I mixed in normal LP ones but it
looks very ugly.

I had some questions I sent to your email on your webpage but it bounced:

Is there a way to control the size of the notes and other things? I want to
perform directly from the original notation but I can't seem to scale the
size up. Also I managed to use your mix in special caudata notes into
modern scores but their size doesn't match and doesn't scale.

Another question I have is how to mix normal staffs with BlackMensural
staffs in one StaffGroup. I want to have a blackmensural staff above the
modern transcription staff but when I add a BlackMensural staff at the top
it always appears below all the other normal Staffs.

Cheers,
Kees


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On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 4:53 AM Lukas-Fabian Moser  wrote:

> Hi Kees,
> Am 06.08.21 um 19:07 schrieb Kees van den Doel:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 8:39 PM Kees van den Doel  wrote:
>
>> But there's also blackmensural.ly by Lukas Pietsch; it's quite old (and
>>> to be honest I don't know it at all and can't say how it deals with your
>>> problem), but maybe it's of use to you:
>>> http://www.lukas-pietsch.de/Music/
>>>
>>
>> I got everything to work fine, except the special note shapes.
>> Interestingly the blackmensural. <http://blackmensural.ly/>pdf is
>> illustrated with the begin of the same piece I'm typesetting and has those
>> note shapes perfectly.
>>
>> Unfortunately it doesn't work with 2.22 and convert-ly gives a long list
>> of errors to fix manually which is beyond my capability.
>>
>
> Actually, despite getting many warnings like below, blackmensural.ly
> seems to work fine. It's actually quite wonderful and complete and has
> everything one needs to typeset music from before ~1450.
>
> Actually, I _think_ the ligature code cannot have worked with 2.22; did
> you try it? (It relied on ancient LilyPond's habit of wrapping everything
> in EventChords.)
>
> I had time now to look through blackmensural.ly and update it a bit to
> accomodate for part of what's changed in LilyPond in the last ten years.
> Now it compiles without complaints on my 2.22.0, see attached.
>
> And oh gosh golly, has LilyPond's scheme integration simplified over that
> time! (I think thanks to David K.) Behold: Instead of
>
>  (make-music
>'ContextSpeccedMusic
>'context-type 'Staff
>'element
>  (make-music
>'SequentialMusic
>'elements (list
>  (make-music
>'OverrideProperty
>'symbol 'Clef
>'grob-property-path (list 'stencil)
>'grob-value mystencil)
>  (make-music; dummy setting
>'PropertySet
>'symbol 'clefGlyph
>'value "clefs.C")
>  (make-music
>'PropertySet
>'symbol 'middleCClefPosition
>'value midCpos)
>  (make-music
>'PropertySet
>'symbol 'clefPosition
>'value linepos)
>  (make-music
>'ApplyContext
>'procedure ly:set-middle-C!)
>   )))
>
> we may now write
>
> #{
>   \context Staff {
> \override Staff.Clef.stencil = #mystencil
> \set Staff.clefGlyph = "clefs.C"
> \set Staff.middleCClefPosition = #midCpos
> \set Staff.clefPosition = #linepos
> \applyContext #ly:set-middle-C!
>   }
> #}
>
> (maybe this would have partly worked in 2.12, but if I understand in
> correctly, there used to be issues regarding _when_ integrated Lilypond
> code is being interpreted).
>
> I can't guarantee that there won't arise subtle problems (spacing
> differences, features I didn't test yet etc., especially since I also had
> to "update" some things that I didn't fully understand), but at least it
> should be a good starting point for further work.
>
> Lukas
>

barline

[Kees van den Doel]

How can I get all barlines to look like ticks?   As in \bar "'".
I got from manual

\set Staff.whichBar = "'"

but that puts a bar between every note.

\override BarLine.glyph = #"'"

does nothing.

Thanks,
Kees

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

Please include the list when replying.
I think this conversation serves no further purpose, so I won't reply
anymore.
K

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 12:46 PM Hans Åberg  wrote:

> It is on stringed instruments one gets the Pythagorean tuning. A flute
> does not have such relative pitch references.
>
>
> > On 6 Aug 2021, at 21:41, Kees van den Doel  wrote:
> >
> > Excuse me for being direct, but this is nonsense. It's nice you've read
> that (outdated) book but I've been actively performing Persian music for
> decades and I know how we tune. If you want to learn check out my website
> https://persianney.com.
> >
> > Kees
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 11:47 AM Hans Åberg  wrote:
> >
> > > On 6 Aug 2021, at 18:46, Kees van den Doel  wrote:
> > >
> > > Well I know Persian music very well, and the tuning as-is is perfect,
> so I'm not sure what we are talking about here.
> > > Persian music doesn't "raise by commas". There are no "different
> tunings", there is the current MIDI tuning which is correct and anything
> different is wrong.
> >
> > The values you have set are wrong from the theoretical point of view:
> >
> > Persian music uses the Pythagorean tuning of which E53 is a close
> approximation. The average values that Hormoz Farhat's Dastgah book
> indicates is a neutral second raised about two commas from the minor
> second, which is what one typically uses.
> >
> > E53 has a sharp that is 5 commas, but a minor second m = 4 and a major
> second M = 5, which is what Graham Breed's file regular.ly does.
> >
> > You have merely divided the LilyPond sharp into 5 parts, then using the
> theoretical comma values indicated above, without adjusting the minor and
> major seconds, so you land on E60.
> >
>
>

Re: Problem with blackpetrucci

[Kees van den Doel]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 8:39 PM Kees van den Doel  wrote:

> But there's also blackmensural.ly by Lukas Pietsch; it's quite old (and
>> to be honest I don't know it at all and can't say how it deals with your
>> problem), but maybe it's of use to you:
>> http://www.lukas-pietsch.de/Music/
>>
>
> I got everything to work fine, except the special note shapes.
> Interestingly the blackmensural. <http://blackmensural.ly/>pdf is
> illustrated with the begin of the same piece I'm typesetting and has those
> note shapes perfectly.
>
> Unfortunately it doesn't work with 2.22 and convert-ly gives a long list
> of errors to fix manually which is beyond my capability.
>

Actually, despite getting many warnings like below, blackmensural.ly seems
to work fine. It's actually quite wonderful and complete and has everything
one needs to typeset music from before ~1450.

enattendant2.ly:82:5: warning: cannot create context:
BlackMensuralStaff = cantusa

\new
BlackMensuralStaff = "cantusa"  <<
enattendant2.ly:83:7: warning: cannot create context:
BlackMensuralVoice = cantusa

  \new
BlackMensuralVoice = "cantusa"  {
warning: cannot find property type-check for `mensural_ligature_queue'
(translation-type?).  perhaps a typing error?
  warning: skipping assignment
   warning: cannot find property type-check
for `beatLength' (translation-type?).  perhaps a typing error?

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

Well I know Persian music very well, and the tuning as-is is perfect, so
I'm not sure what we are talking about here.
Persian music doesn't "raise by commas". There are no "different tunings",
there is the current MIDI tuning which is correct and anything different is
wrong.

It's working fine now, nothing is broken that needs to be fixed??

As far as I'm concerned the problem of upgrading persian.ly to 2.22 is
solved.

Cheers,
Kees

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 9:05 AM Hans Åberg  wrote:

>
> > On 6 Aug 2021, at 16:45, Kees van den Doel  wrote:
> >
> > Please include the list in reply.
>
> As you posted an email intended to be private, a correction: I did not
> misremember, you really do use E60. :-)
>
> > I have no Idea what E72 and E60 etc. is, to me it sounds like European
> freeway names.
>
> It is Scala notation for the ETs: E72 = 72 ET, etc.
>
> > If you guys want to merge it into main LP distribution that's great, and
> I'll be happy to help on Persian music issues but I'm fairly useless on
> technical details.
> >
> > The docs inside persian.ly are intended to give you all the info on
> Persian music needed for correct typesetting, but if something is lacking
> let me know and I'll add it when I update the package.
> >
> > However you can always check how things should look/sound by downloading
> the original package as it is working perfectly with old LP (and probably
> with new, but I haven't regressed all my scores)  and has been extensively
> used for over a decade.
> > MIDI tuning  is very important esp. if you are learning Persian tuning.
>
> If this is the case, you should use preferably E53, but as it requires
> Graham Breed's file regular.y which currently is not in the LilyPond
> distribution, the next best thing would be E72, and as Persian music raises
> by to commas (E72 tonesteps), it is in actuality in E36. So I would
> recommend using those. It would be nice to hear what somebody that knows
> this music well thinks about how these different tuning sound with Persian
> music.
>
>

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi,

Please include the list in reply.

I have no Idea what E72 and E60 etc. is, to me it sounds like European
freeway names.

If you guys want to merge it into main LP distribution that's great, and
I'll be happy to help on Persian music issues but I'm fairly useless on
technical details.

The docs inside persian.ly are intended to give you all the info on Persian
music needed for correct typesetting, but if something is lacking let me
know and I'll add it when I update the package.

However you can always check how things should look/sound by downloading
the original package as it is working perfectly with old LP (and probably
with new, but I haven't regressed all my scores)  and has been extensively
used for over a decade.
MIDI tuning  is very important esp. if you are learning Persian tuning.

Cheers,
Kees

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 1:56 AM Hans Åberg  wrote:

>
> > On 31 Jul 2021, at 22:30, Kees van den Doel  wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 1:25 PM Hans Åberg  wrote:
> >
> > Change the names for the double arrowed accidentals to the ones you want
> to use. They are in smufldata.ily.
> >
> >> Tuning is defined correctly in persian.ly already so there is no
> problem to solve there.
> >
> > I recall you used E60. E72 might be a better choice. It is your choice
> though.
> >
> > Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.
>
> I misremembered, I see now that the file persian.ly I have uses E53 and
> regular.ly:
>
> However, if you would want to make a version that is in the LilyPond
> distribution, that currently does not have the file regular.ly, you might
> make an E72 version, the two comma alterations actually being in E36. This
> is what Adam Good did with the rewritten makam file.
>
> The neutral seconds in E72, relative E53, only change a few cents, just
> adjusting the diatonic scales to E12. So it is a good alternative when
> mixing with E12 instruments, at least from the theoretical point of view:
> It would be nice to hear what somebody that knows this music well thinks.
>
>
>

Re: Problem with blackpetrucci

[Kees van den Doel]

>
> But there's also blackmensural.ly by Lukas Pietsch; it's quite old (and
> to be honest I don't know it at all and can't say how it deals with your
> problem), but maybe it's of use to you: http://www.lukas-pietsch.de/Music/
>

I got everything to work fine, except the special note shapes.
Interestingly the blackmensural. pdf is
illustrated with the begin of the same piece I'm typesetting and has those
note shapes perfectly.

Unfortunately it doesn't work with 2.22 and convert-ly gives a long list of
errors to fix manually which is beyond my capability.

Cheers,
Kees

Problem with blackpetrucci

[Kees van den Doel]

In black notation minim looks like modern 1/4 note and semiminim looks like
modern 1/8 note.

It is not correct though, semiminim and shorter notes are one flag short,
so Minim and Semiminim look identical. See example.

Unless I'm missing something this is a bug, is there a workaround?

Thanks,
Kees
\version "2.22.1"

\score {
  \new Voice {
\override Flag.style = #'mensural
a1 a2 a4 a8 r
\override NoteHead.style = #'blackpetrucci
a1 a2 a4 a8 r
\override NoteHead.style = #'petrucci
a1 a2 a4 a8 r
  }
}

testdur.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Special notes

[Kees van den Doel]

I'm trying to reproduce the notes caudatae, as in image.
Attached minimal code is as far as I got, but I can't get
\mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn to do anything which would make it work I think.

Or is there a smarter way?

Thanks,
Kees
\version "2.22.1"

whitenote = \once \override NoteHead.style = #'petrucci
nohead = \once \override NoteHead.transparent = ##t
sstem = \once \override Stem.length = #4
rednote = {
  \once \override Stem.color = #red
  \once \override Flag.color = #red
  \once \override NoteHead.color = #red
}
mrg = \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn % doesn't seem to do anything??

\score {
  \new Voice {
\autoBeamOff
\stemUp a' 
<<{ \stemDown \nohead \sstem \rednote \mrg c''8 }\\{\stemUp \whitenote \rednote c''2*1/4}>>
\stemUp 
a'2
  }
  
  \layout{ 
\context {
  \Voice
  \override NoteHead.style = #'blackpetrucci
  \override Flag.style = #'mensural
}
  }
}

teststem.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

Re: incipits

[Kees van den Doel]

Here's a minimal example showing the problem.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 6:37 PM Kees van den Doel  wrote:

> I have a score with different key signatures in the voices. The incipit
> does not align properly as the flat takes space and shifts things.
> See attached. I've simply added the incipits to each voice as in the
> example in the docs.
>
> I've tried adding key signature to top incipit voice and setting
>   \once \override KeySignature.transparent = ##t
> but this does not hide the flat.
>
> Maybe related I would like to hide the mensural time signature as it's not
> in the original. Again
>   \override TimeSignature.transparent = ##t
> has no effect.
>
> Is there a proper way to do this?
> [image: Image1.jpg]
>
\version "2.22.1"

\score {
  \new StaffGroup <<
\new Staff \with { instrumentName = "" } <<
  \new Voice {
\incipit {a}
a
  }
>>
\new Staff \with { instrumentName = "" } <<
  \new Voice {
\incipit {\key f \major a}
a
  }
>>
  >>
  \layout{ 
indent = 4\cm
%indent = 4\cm % aligns notes but now clefs are off
  }
}



testincipit.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

incipits

[Kees van den Doel]

I have a score with different key signatures in the voices. The incipit
does not align properly as the flat takes space and shifts things.
See attached. I've simply added the incipits to each voice as in the
example in the docs.

I've tried adding key signature to top incipit voice and setting
  \once \override KeySignature.transparent = ##t
but this does not hide the flat.

Maybe related I would like to hide the mensural time signature as it's not
in the original. Again
  \override TimeSignature.transparent = ##t
has no effect.

Is there a proper way to do this?
[image: Image1.jpg]

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

Looks good. For testing just compare output as gotten from my package with
old LP version. I haven't run all regression on the new persian.ly (that
works with current LP version) yet.

It's actually quite simple: everything is the same except for 2 new
accidentals Koron and Sori which affect pitch as documented. The -v suffix
affects only MIDI and could be dropped, was more of an experiment.
It seemed I could not add  these extra accidentals (and their pitch in
MIDI) but had to redefine all accidentals.
Ugly but it has worked fine for over a decade.

Proper integration with LP would be better but hasn't happened.

Anyways it's now working fine with current version so I'm happy.

Thanks,
Kees

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 7:32 AM Thomas Morley 
wrote:

> Am Mo., 2. Aug. 2021 um 18:33 Uhr schrieb Kees van den Doel <
> kvd...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> > Sorry, keep forgetting to "reply-all"...
> > ------ Forwarded message -
> > From: Kees van den Doel 
> > Date: Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 9:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: Persian music package
> > To: Thomas Morley 
> >
> >
> > Too many things wrong with that, starting with missing sori symbol,
> wrong koron symbol in key signature.
> >  'v' should affect only MIDI etc. The example mehr.ly  in the example/
> in my zip file is a better test, shur.ly I just posted to illustrate
> unmetered notes.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Kees
> > Kees
> >
> Please have a look at the attached pdf. Is it correct?
> It's pretty difficult for me to get it right, not knowing persian music at
> all.
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm
>

Fwd: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

Sorry, keep forgetting to "reply-all"...
-- Forwarded message -----
From: Kees van den Doel 
Date: Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Persian music package
To: Thomas Morley 


Too many things wrong with that, starting with missing sori symbol, wrong
koron symbol in key signature.
 'v' should affect only MIDI etc. The example mehr.ly  in the example/ in
my zip file is a better test, shur.ly I just posted to illustrate unmetered
notes.

Cheers,
Kees
Kees

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 9:10 AM Thomas Morley 
wrote:

> Am So., 1. Aug. 2021 um 20:13 Uhr schrieb Kees van den Doel <
> kvd...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 10:40 AM Kees van den Doel 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 2:29 AM Thomas Morley 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Furthermore I'd replace the override for Accidental.extra-offset by:
> >>> \override Accidental.Y-offset =
> >>
> >>
> >> Typo I assume and you mean "\override Accidental.extra-offset ="?
> >>
> >>>
> >>>   #(lambda (grob)
> >>>   (cdr
> >>> (assoc-get
> >>>   (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
> >>>   persianStringsOffsets)))
> >>>
> >> That doesn't work because now you take the cdr twice. I think
> (assoc-get ... is the same as (cdr (assoc .. isn't it?
> >> But assoc-get without cdr is nicer of course, didn't know about that.
> >
> >
> > No that doesn't work, I must not understand something. Can you explain
> why you suggest the change? If I keep the cdr as in your example it runs
> but  offsets are no longer right.  It works fine with assoc.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Kees
>
> Well, I overlooked you defined an alist for use with extra-offset,
> requiring pairs. Whereas I proposed not to move accidentals in X-axis,
> but only in Y-axis direction. Thus Y-offset requiring only a number.
>
> Alas, I feel it's all a bit clumsy, instead I followed Hans advice to
> use smufl-glyphs.
> A _partial_ and basic rewrite of your persian.ly is attached (with
> examples).
> I use stuff from
>
> https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/custom-music-fonts/smufl/definitions.ily
> and
>
> https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/blob/master/custom-music-fonts/smufl/smufldata.ily
>
> You will need the Bravura-font, downlaodable at:
> http://www.smufl.org/fonts/
> (put it in lilypond/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf/)
> and the mapping file smufldata.ily, attached as well.
>
> Hope I didn't forget anything.
> If anything is not working it may be not implemented yet...
> If so (or a different problem), please post the failing example as a
> compilable ly-file
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm
>

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 10:40 AM Kees van den Doel  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 2:29 AM Thomas Morley 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Furthermore I'd replace the override for Accidental.extra-offset by:
>> \override Accidental.Y-offset =
>>
>
> Typo I assume and you mean "\override Accidental.extra-offset ="?
>
>
>>   #(lambda (grob)
>>   (cdr
>> (assoc-get
>>   (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
>>   persianStringsOffsets)))
>>
>> That doesn't work because now you take the cdr twice. I think (assoc-get
> ... is the same as (cdr (assoc .. isn't it?
> But assoc-get without cdr is nicer of course, didn't know about that.
>

No that doesn't work, I must not understand something. Can you explain why
you suggest the change? If I keep the cdr as in your example it runs but
offsets are no longer right.  It works fine with assoc.

Cheers,
Kees

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 2:29 AM Thomas Morley 
wrote:

>
> Furthermore I'd replace the override for Accidental.extra-offset by:
> \override Accidental.Y-offset =
>

Typo I assume and you mean "\override Accidental.extra-offset ="?


>   #(lambda (grob)
>   (cdr
> (assoc-get
>   (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
>   persianStringsOffsets)))
>
> That doesn't work because now you take the cdr twice. I think (assoc-get
... is the same as (cdr (assoc .. isn't it?
But assoc-get without cdr is nicer of course, didn't know about that.

Cheers,
Kees

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 2:29 AM Thomas Morley 
wrote:

>
> I'd simply drop your overrides for Accidental.Y-extent and
> Accidental.X-extent.
> Let the skylines do their job as already proposed by Jean.
>

I should have answered you first. That seems to solve everything! At least
on the demo example, I'll start rerendering all my persian scores and hope
for the best. Also nice to get rid of all those hardcoded offsets.

Jean: Ignore my previous email I think I misunderstood you and merged your
two sample codes which was not intended I guess.


>
> Furthermore I'd replace the override for Accidental.extra-offset by:
> \override Accidental.Y-offset =
>   #(lambda (grob)
>   (cdr
> (assoc-get
>   (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
>   persianStringsOffsets)))
> Though, why do you use pairs in persianStringsOffsets? Iiuc, you only
> use the cdr of each pair.
>

Not sure I understand.  persianStringsOffsets is an assoc table with car
the key and cdr the pair to use?
My Scheme is a bit rusty, I once wrote a Scheme interpreter in Scheme but
that was 30 years ago.

Thanks for all the help.

Cheers,
Kees


> Cheers,
>   Harm
>

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 1:33 AM Jean Abou Samra  wrote:

>
> Does this code illustrate your problem?
>
> \version "2.22.1"
>
> {
>\override Accidental.X-extent = #'(-2 . 2)
>
> }
>

Yes and no. Your code *does* allow me to set the X-extent with those 2
numbers and it has an effect, whereas in persian.ly changing the
X-extent numbers has zero effect.

I added your code but get a runtime error or warning (?) at your
"(ly:stencil-add", referring to attached persianT.ly:

mintty screen dump

Drawing systems...persianT.ly:349:8: In procedure ly_stencil_add in
expression (ly:stencil-add (ly:grob-property grob #)
(ly:separation-item::print grob)): persianT.ly:349:8: Wrong type
(expecting Stencil): #f


I still can't control spacing with those additions by tweaking the #s.

Next, if I just add the latter part of your suggested code (ie not
after-line-breaking = stuff) there is an effect.
I can now move the first troublesome koron around with the X-extent number
pair, but this is no help as the notes don't move out of the way and the
accidental is still on top of one of the notes, so it seems to control
location but not size of the accidental?.

Cheers,
Kees


> If so, this comes from the spacing of accidentals
> being based on so-called skylines, namely outlines,
> and not only extents. This was probably not the
> case for accidentals in an old version such as 2.12.
> You can observe the skylines using
>
> \version "2.22.1"
>
> #(ly:set-option 'debug-skylines)
>
> \layout {
>\context {
>  \Score
>  \override Accidental.after-line-breaking =
>  #(lambda (grob)
> (set! (ly:grob-property grob 'stencil)
>   (ly:stencil-add
> (ly:grob-property grob 'stencil)
> (ly:separation-item::print grob
>  % \override Accidental.horizontal-skylines =
> #ly:grob::simple-horizontal-skylines-from-extents
>}
> }
>
> {
>\override Accidental.X-extent = #'(-2 . 2)
>
> }
>
>
> Now try adding
>
> \layout {
>\context {
>  \Score
>  \override Accidental.horizontal-skylines =
> #ly:grob::simple-horizontal-skylines-from-extents
>}
> }
>
> and you'll get an effect on spacing.
>
> Best,
> Jean
>
>
\version "2.22.0"
%{
Author: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca

Init file for Persian music notation.

To  use download  the PostScript  Type  1 Microtonal  Font from  Andrián
Pertout  (http://www.pertout.com/PhD2007Introduction.htm)  and copy  the
.pfbfileintothedirectory
LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/type1.

This header file defines Persian microtonal alterations, the approximate
quartertone   flat  (koron)  and   the  approximate   quartertone  sharp
(sori). They can be obtained by  appending 'k' (koron) and 'o' (sori) to
the English note symbol.  The  standard symbols for this were introduced
by Vaziri.

Key  signatures are  defined  for all  the  Persian modes,  there are  5
distinct scales  with microtones  and the normal  major scale.   All the
gushe's from all dastgahs can be notated with just these 6.

The note immediately  following a koron is sometimes  (when the interval
defined by  the note  before the koron  and after  the koron is  a minor
third, and the note below the  finalis in esfahan according to some (but
not all)  Persian musicians))  lowered by about  20 cents.  This  is not
notated, but considered part of the scale tuning. To accomodate this for
getting better sounding  MIDI I've introduced the "vlat"  (append 'v' to
the note) to indicate this. Actually  this note should also get a strong
vibrato,  and the  vibrato and  low tuning  are  perceptually integrated
(serialism!). This is just for MIDI and has no effect on the notation.

In the tuning  I've followed "Traditional Persian Art  Music, by Dariush
Tala'i".  The  tunings are  also very close  to those suggested  in "The
Dastgah  Concept in  Persian Music,  by  Hormoz Farhat".   See also  "Le
repertoire-modele  de  la  musique  iranienne,  by  Jean  During"  which
contains measurements  of the  intervals in actual  practice, consistent
with the tuning in this file.

There are no other tuning issues  in Persian music. Because the music is
monophonic  the difference  between  just intonation  (for example)  and
equal temperament is merely academic, because are no chords where out of
tune intervals are noticeable.

Note name suffixes:

ff for double-flat
			f  for flat
			k  for koron (about quarter-flat, -3/10 of whole tone, 60 cent)
			o  for sori  (about quarter-sharp, 2/10 of whole tone, 40 cent)
			s  for sharp
			x  for double-sharp
v  for 20 cent flat tuned note ("vlat", not notated)
fv for flat tuned 20

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

OK, so I'll stick with my own convert-ly files as I'm on the
stabgle version.

Problem now seems to be that the positioning tweak in persian.ly such as
"persianStringsXExtents" is no longer working correctly with my file.
Strangely the YExtents and Offset work fine, eg if I make Y-Extent large
the beams move out of the way.

persianStringsXExtents = #`(
   (-3/10 . (0 . 1) )
   (1/5   . (0 . 1.8)) %<--- this should control how "wide" the
koron is but it has no effect
   (0 . (0 . 1))
   (1/2   . (0 . 1))
   (2/5   . (0 . 1))
   (-1/2  . (0 . 1))
   (-3/5  . (0 . 1))
   (-1/10 . (0 . 1))
   (-1. (0 . 1.8))
   ( 1. (0 . 1.3))
)
\override Accidental.X-extent =  #(lambda (grob)
 (cdr (assoc (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
  persianStringsXExtents )))

On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 11:21 PM Jean Abou Samra  wrote:

> Le 01/08/2021 à 08:06, Kees van den Doel a écrit :
> > convert-ly from LP v2.22.1 also didn;t add the "alteration-" here.
> > Windows 10 system.
>
> (Please keep the list posted, so everyone can reply
> and benefit from the answers.)
>
> convert-ly from 2.22.1 is expected not to do this,
> because the renaming was done in LilyPond 2.23.3.
>
> Best,
> Jean
>

Re: Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi Hans,
Thanks but I don't see how this helps.
I don't see the Koron or Sori anywhere in those files you sent. Tuning is
defined correctly in persian.ly already so there is no problem to solve
there.  Problem is it does not compile anymore persian.ly v > 2.12.
Cheers,
Kees

On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 11:49 AM Hans Åberg  wrote:

>
> > On 31 Jul 2021, at 19:41, Kees van den Doel  wrote:
> >
> > A decade ago I wrote the attached header persian.ly which supports
> Persian music notation + microtuning.
> > A hack with a downloaded font is necessary as the Persian microtonal
> symbols, the koron and sori are not available in Lilypond,
> > Strange, as these have been standard for over a century and there is a
> substantial body of music written requiring it.
> > I'm still getting occasional requests for the package and I've used it
> to transcribe and compose many hours of Persian traditional music.
> …
> > Anyone have an idea on how I can get it to work with current version?
>
> You might switch to using SmuFl and E53/E72; the accidentals are available
> in the Bravura font. E53 can now be used with Graham Breed's file
> regular.ly. For ETs multiples of 12, it is not needed.
>
> I send you files for E53 and E72 with Helmholtz-Ellis notation. For
> Persian music, the double comma accidental would be suitable.
>
> I recommend using E72 because relative E53/Pythagorean tuning, E72 adjusts
> the diatonic scale to E12, but the neutral seconds change only a few cents.
>
> Adam Good reworked the Turkish makam file, and expressed interest in
> Arabic and Persian music, too. He also felt the the E53/E72 combination was
> good.
>
>
>

Re: Question about Lilypond and meterless/free time music

[Kees van den Doel]

Attached is a demo of meterless typesetting. Unfortunately it required
persian.ly (see email earlier today) and v 2.12
but the "meterless" aspect does not depend on that so I hope it's still
useful.


On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 7:30 AM  wrote:

> Hello !
>
> I have a question about whether Lilypond can manage a certain type of
> notation.
>
> I happen to love a lot of music that is completely free time/ad
> libitum/rubatto/recitativoso I am curious about different ways to
> notate music that has no rythmic pattern, no concept of measures, beats.
>
> I recently found in a book this transcription of a lute solo ( see the
> attachment), where instead of measure bars the pentagram has marks
> indicating seconds into the recording. it reminds me a bit of an old piano
> scroll. The horizontal axis is in time, not measures.
>
> My question is can I make a score like that using Lilypond ?
>
> thanks,
>
> Ariel//
>
\include "persian.ly"
\version "2.12.2"

%#(set-global-staff-size 20)

staffText = #(define-music-function (parser location marktext)
  (string?)
  #{
  \once \override NoteHead  #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \once \override NoteHead #'text = #(markup #:whiteout $marktext ) 
  \once \override Stem  #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \once \override Stem #'text = ""
  #})

startGraceMusic = { \override Stem #'stroke-style = #"grace" }
stopGraceMusic = { \revert Stem #'stroke-style }

\header {
  title = "Daramad Shur"
  tagline = ##f

}

\paper {
%  between-system-space = 0\cm
%  between-system-padding = #3
%  ragged-bottom=##t
%  ragged-last-bottom=##t
}


daramad = {
  \relative c' {
\override Score.PaperColumn #'keep-inside-line = ##t
\override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn #'keep-inside-line = ##t
\set Staff.extraNatural = ##f
\compressFullBarRests
\cadenzaOn
\override Staff.TimeSignature #'stencil = ##f
\override Score.DynamicText #'transparent = ##t
\override Score.PhrasingSlur #'transparent = ##t
\set Staff.keySignature = \shurD
\override Staff.KeySignature #'text = #shurDKey
\set Staff.midiInstrument = #"clarinet"

\tempo 4 = 84
d1 \f \teeny c16 \pp \normalsize  d1 \f \teeny c16 \pp \normalsize d8 \f  r2  fv2~fv8[ ek8..]  d16 \grace{\stemDown ek8 } d16 \grace{\stemDown fv16} 
d4 ek d8. c16[ \grace{\stemDown fv16} c16] \grace{\stemDown fv16} c4

d4 \teeny c16 \pp \normalsize d4. \f r8 r2 \bar "" \break

g4 fv2~fv8 ek16 \grace{\stemDown fv16} ek16 \grace{\stemDown fv16} ek8[ \teeny d16 \pp] \normalsize  fv4~ \f fv16[ ek8.] 
d16 \grace{\stemDown fv16} d16 \grace{\stemDown fv16} d4 ek \teeny d8 \pp \normalsize  r8 \f r2

fv2~ fv16[ ek8] d16 \grace{\stemDown fv16} d16 \grace{\stemDown fv16} d4 ek d8. c16[ \grace{\stemDown fv16} c16] \grace{\stemDown fv16} c4 d8. \teeny c16 \pp \normalsize d4 \f r8 r2 \bar "" \break

\times 2/3 {r8 \grace{\stemDown c8} fv8 ek}  \grace {\stemDown fv8} d4.~ \times 2/3 {d8 fv ek} \grace{\stemDown fv8} 
d4~ \times 2/3 {d8 ek \teeny d \pp} \normalsize fv4. \f g16 \breathe

fv32[ ek16 \grace{\stemDown fv16}  ek d \grace{\stemDown fv16} d c \grace{\stemDown fv16} c8] d4 \teeny c16 \pp \normalsize d2. \f  r2

\bar "|."
  }
}

kereshmeh = {
<<
  \new Staff  \with {
\override VerticalAxisGroup #'minimum-Y-extent = #'(-0 . 0)
  }

  \new Voice = melody \relative c' {
%\override Score.PaperColumn #'keep-inside-line = ##t
%\override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn #'keep-inside-line = ##t
\set Staff.extraNatural = ##f
\compressFullBarRests
\cadenzaOn
\override Staff.TimeSignature #'stencil = ##f
\override Score.DynamicText #'transparent = ##t
\override Score.PhrasingSlur #'transparent = ##t
\set Staff.keySignature = \shurD
\override Staff.KeySignature #'text = #shurDKey
\set Staff.midiInstrument = #"clarinet"

c16[ \f d8 ek16] fv4. ek16[ fv] ek16[ fv32 ek8] \teeny d16[( ek] \pp \normalsize  d8) \f d8 r4

ek16 fv8.~ fv16[ \teeny ek16] \pp \normalsize g32 \f fv16 g16. fv4  ek16[ d8] 
ek32[ fv16 \grace{\stemDown g16} fv] ek[ \grace{\stemDown g16} ek d \grace{\stemDown g16} d] \teeny ek \pp \normalsize d4 \f r2

\bar "|."
  }

  \new Lyrics \with {
\override VerticalAxisGroup #'minimum-Y-extent = #'(-0 . 0)
  }

  \lyricsto melody {
ko han sha wad ha me kas - - - rA
be ru - ze gA - - A - re e rA - - - - - dat
  }
>>
}




\book {
  \header {
title = \markup \center-column { "Vocal radif according to Karimi" "Dastgah Shur" }
composer =  "Karimi"  
  }

  \score {
\daramad
\midi { 
  \context {
\Score
tempoWholesPerMinute = #(ly:make-moment 84 4)
  }
}
\header {
  piece = "1. Daramad"
}
\layout { 
  \context {
%  \Score
%\override SpacingSpanner #'base-shortest-duration = #(ly:make-moment 1 16)
%\override SpacingSpanner #'shortest-duration-space  = #1

Persian music package

[Kees van den Doel]

A decade ago I wrote the attached header persian.ly which supports Persian
music notation + microtuning.
A hack with a downloaded font is necessary as the Persian microtonal
symbols, the koron and sori are not available in Lilypond,
Strange, as these have been standard for over a century and there is a
substantial body of music written requiring it.
I'm still getting occasional requests for the package and I've used it to
transcribe and compose many hours of Persian traditional music.

At the time it was version 2.12.2 and I took a snapshot of that version
with the additional fonts already installed and an "example" directory to
illustrate usage of persian.ly.

Available at https://persianney.com/misc/LilyPond.zip
<http://persianney.com/misc/LilyPond.zip>

It does not work anymore with current Lilypond version: when compiling
provided  example (after copying font files as documented in persian.ly) it
trips over

"(ly:parser-set-note-names parser pitchnames)"

but that may not be all. I noticed there is no type1 directory anymore in
the current Lilypond version.

Anyone have an idea on how I can get it to work with current version?  It
works perfectly fine with the old version, but it is a bit annoying to be
forced to use 2.12.

Thanks,
Kees
\version "2.12.2"
%{
Author: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca

Init file for Persian music notation.

To  use download  the PostScript  Type  1 Microtonal  Font from  Andrián
Pertout  (http://www.pertout.com/PhD2007Introduction.htm)  and copy  the
.pfbfileintothedirectory
LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/type1.

This header file defines Persian microtonal alterations, the approximate
quartertone   flat  (koron)  and   the  approximate   quartertone  sharp
(sori). They can be obtained by  appending 'k' (koron) and 'o' (sori) to
the English note symbol.  The  standard symbols for this were introduced
by Vaziri.

Key  signatures are  defined  for all  the  Persian modes,  there are  5
distinct scales  with microtones  and the normal  major scale.   All the
gushe's from all dastgahs can be notated with just these 6.

The note immediately  following a koron is sometimes  (when the interval
defined by  the note  before the koron  and after  the koron is  a minor
third, and the note below the  finalis in esfahan according to some (but
not all)  Persian musicians))  lowered by about  20 cents.  This  is not
notated, but considered part of the scale tuning. To accomodate this for
getting better sounding  MIDI I've introduced the "vlat"  (append 'v' to
the note) to indicate this. Actually  this note should also get a strong
vibrato,  and the  vibrato and  low tuning  are  perceptually integrated
(serialism!). This is just for MIDI and has no effect on the notation.

In the tuning  I've followed "Traditional Persian Art  Music, by Dariush
Tala'i".  The  tunings are  also very close  to those suggested  in "The
Dastgah  Concept in  Persian Music,  by  Hormoz Farhat".   See also  "Le
repertoire-modele  de  la  musique  iranienne,  by  Jean  During"  which
contains measurements  of the  intervals in actual  practice, consistent
with the tuning in this file.

There are no other tuning issues  in Persian music. Because the music is
monophonic  the difference  between  just intonation  (for example)  and
equal temperament is merely academic, because are no chords where out of
tune intervals are noticeable.

Note name suffixes:

ff for double-flat
			f  for flat
			k  for koron (about quarter-flat, -3/10 of whole tone, 60 cent)
			o  for sori  (about quarter-sharp, 2/10 of whole tone, 40 cent)
			s  for sharp
			x  for double-sharp
v  for 20 cent flat tuned note ("vlat", not notated)
fv for flat tuned 20C down (notated as a normal flat)
sv for sharp tuned 20C down (notated as a normal sharp: will never occur in traditional Persian music)

6 Persian  key signatures are  provided they are:

shur?   (shur gushe's with natural 5th degree)
shurk?  (shur gushe's with koron 5th degree)
esfahan?
mokhalefsegah?
chahargah?
mahur?

where ? is the key (A-G) of the mode.

Setting the  key signatures  requires two commmands,  one to  define the
alterations,  and one  to set  the key  signature (append  "Key"  to the
name). For example for chahargah in D:

\include "persian.ly"
\score {
  \relative c' {
   \set Staff.keySignature = \chahargahD
   \override Score.KeySignature #'text = #chahargahDKey
bk'8 a gs fo r g ak g fs ek d c d ef16 d c4
 }
  \midi { }
  \layout { }
  }
}


%}

% Define tunings:

#(define-public KORON -3/10)
#(define-public SORI 1/5)
#(define-public VLAT -1/10)
#(define-public FVLAT -3/5)
#(define-public SVLAT 2/5)

pitchnamesEnglish = #`(
	(cflatflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 DOUBLE-FL

\shiftDurations

[Kees van den Doel]

Is there a way to do a \shiftDurations of 2/3?
I have a voice with almost all dotted minims and semibreves {c2. c1. } in
6/2 and want to change to 2/2 and use \scaleDurations to make it fit.

I would not be surprised by "no" as there are a few "minim semiminim"  like {e2
d4 c2.} occurrences which would have to be changed to triplets.

Thanks,
Kees

Re: auto note split across barlines

[Kees van den Doel]

Of course I find it right after posting the question, sorry.

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#automatic-note-splitting

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 3:56 PM Kees van den Doel  wrote:

> Is there a way to change notes that cross barlines to ties?
>
> So in 4/4 "c1. d2 c1"  should be changed into "c1~c2 d2 c1"?
>
> I vaguely remember there is a way but I can't find it in the docs, ot
> maybe it was a different program.
>

auto note split across barlines

[Kees van den Doel]

Is there a way to change notes that cross barlines to ties?

So in 4/4 "c1. d2 c1"  should be changed into "c1~c2 d2 c1"?

I vaguely remember there is a way but I can't find it in the docs, ot maybe
it was a different program.

translation

[Kees van den Doel]

Is there a way to translate a ly file from italian to english?

I want to edit a score but instead of do re mi names want english names for
the note names.

Ossia and MIDI

[Kees van den Doel]

Is there a way to prevent the notes in ossia staves to show up in MIDI?

AccidentalCautionary

[Kees van den Doel]

Is there a way to place AccidentalCautionary a fixed distance above the
staff instead of a fixed distance above the note, which I did like this?

\override Staff.AccidentalCautionary.font-size = #-2
\override Staff.AccidentalCautionary.parenthesized = ##f
\override AccidentalCautionary #'extra-offset =  #'(1.5 . 4.)

Thanks,
Kees

Re: midi2ly

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi again David,

I didn't understand what you wrote, but I did a bunch of things to make it
work. I think this will solve the convert-ly problem as well, though I
haven't checked. This is in mintty shell using Cygwin on Windows 10.

$ ls -l  /cygdrive/d/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/LilyPond/usr/bin/midi2ly

-rwxrwx---+ 1 Administrators None 39034 Apr 24 07:05 '/cygdrive/d/Program
Files (x86)/LilyPond/usr/bin/midi2ly'

$ which python3

which: no python3 in ...

$ which python
/cygdrive/d/ProgramData/Anaconda2/python

$ python --version
Python 2.7.15 :: Anaconda, Inc.

$ /cygdrive/d/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/LilyPond/usr/bin/python --version

Python 3.7.4

$ /cygdrive/d/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/LilyPond/usr/bin/python
/cygdrive/d/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/LilyPond/usr/bin/midi2ly --version

D:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\python.exe: can't open file
'/cygdrive/d/Program Files (x86)/LilyPond/usr/bin/midi2ly': [Errno 2] No
such file or directory

$ cp /cygdrive/d/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/LilyPond/usr/bin/midi2ly .
$ mv midi2ly midi2ly.py
$ /cygdrive/d/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/LilyPond/usr/bin/python midi2ly.py
--version

midi2ly (LilyPond) 2.22.1

$ /cygdrive/d/Program\ Files\ \(x86\)/LilyPond/usr/bin/python midi2ly.py
bwv0026_04.mid

LY output to `bwv0026_04-midi.ly'...

$ echo works!

works!

Cheers,
Kees

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 6:17 PM David Wright 
wrote:

> On Thu 17 Jun 2021 at 17:06:22 (-0700), Kees van den Doel wrote:
> > Thanks David, I have followed the convert-ly posts but my take-away was
> > that convert-ly is not usable for Windows users as no solution was
> offered.
> > I guess it's the same with this midi2ly.
>
> [Please keep the discussion on-list where others might see it,
> particularly Windows-users.]
>
> Have you tried just invoking python3 itself, placing the name of the
> script next, and then whatever arguments you were using, ie:
>
> $ path-to-midi2ly arguments …
>
>   ↓
>
> $ python3 path-to-midi2ly arguments …
>
> This is effectively all that a shebang does: you can execute a script
> by name without having to care about which interpreter it needs.
> (You may need path-to-python3 as well.)
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>

midi2ly

[Kees van den Doel]

On windows 10, a fresh install of lilypond.
On Windows "powershell"
> midi2ly -V
brings up a window "how do you want to open this file".
On mintty (another CMD shell)
mintty screen dump

bash: /cygdrive/d/Program Files (x86)/LilyPond/usr/bin/midi2ly:
/usr/bin/python3: bad interpreter: No such file or directory


Can anyone tell me what's wrong?

Changing note graphics

[Kees van den Doel]

I want to change all half-notes in an existing score to look like quarter
note with no stem.
Everything else should remain unchanged.
Is there a way to do this without editing every occurrence?

Thanks.

Re: grace note problem

[Kees van den Doel]

Thanks everyone, I should have read the manual, works fine.
Cheers,
Kees

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 2:51 PM Ralph Palmer 
wrote:

> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 2:04 PM Kees van den Doel 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I want to attach grace notes after a note which is last in measure.
>> Problem is the grace notes are printed in the next bar, which is wrong.
>>
>> Using \afterGrace is even worse, seems  broken.
>>
>> Snippet and pdf of problem attached.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated. Of course I could make barlines invisible
>> and insert them manually but that's one step up from fixing the score with
>> whiteout and a pencil.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kees
>>
>
> Greetings, Kees -
>
> I think the attached might work. The \afterGrace command needs to come
> before the note the grace notes are attached to, then the grace notes come
> after. See
>
> https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/special-rhythmic-concerns
>
> All the best,
>
> Ralph
>
> --
> Ralph Palmer
> Seattle
> USA
> (he, him, his)
> palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com
>

grace note problem

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi all,

I want to attach grace notes after a note which is last in measure.
Problem is the grace notes are printed in the next bar, which is wrong.

Using \afterGrace is even worse, seems  broken.

Snippet and pdf of problem attached.

Any help would be appreciated. Of course I could make barlines invisible
and insert them manually but that's one step up from fixing the score with
whiteout and a pencil.

Cheers,
Kees


aftergracetest.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\version "2.21.1"

cantus = {
  \time 2/4
  a4 b(\grace{a16 b c')} a2
  a4 b(\afterGrace{a16 b c')} a2
  b2
}

\score {
\context Staff = "one" <<
  \new Voice = "cantus" {
\cantus
  }
>>
  }

Re: lilypond-book question

[Kees van den Doel]

Thanks, I got it working now.
Kees

- Original Message -
From: James Bailey derhindem...@googlemail.com
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010 11:43 pm
Subject: Re: lilypond-book question
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 
 On 16.03.2010, at 05:16, Kees van den Doel wrote:
  running latex...Dissecting...lilypond-book.py: error file 
 not  
  found: screech-boink.ly
 
  I can't find anything in the docs, but haven't read them cover 
 to  
  cover. (My miktex is fine.)
 
 
 If you read the last line of the input text that you're using, 
 it  
 reads: (If needed, replace screech-boink.ly by any .ly file you 
 put  
 in the same
 directory as this file.)
 
 So, unless you have a file named screech-boink.ly in a place 
 that  
 pdflatex will find it, the file will not be able to compile.



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lilypond-book question

[Kees van den Doel]

 Hi all,

How am I supposed to use lilypond-book on windows?

I'm in  a cygwin csh shell. Instructions say:

To produce a PDF file through PDFLaTeX, use

lilypond-book --pdf yourfile.pdftex
pdflatex yourfile.tex

lilypond-book is however not a recognized command.

I then tried (after finding lilypond-book.py and some guessing)

python 'c:\program files\lilypond\usr\bin\lilypond-book.py' foo.lytex

and get:

running latex...Dissecting...lilypond-book.py: error file not found: 
screech-boink.ly

I can't find anything in the docs, but haven't read them cover to cover. (My 
miktex is fine.)

Appreciate any help,
Kees



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Re: GUI

[Kees van den Doel]

Of course there is nothing really wrong with the current website.
Most people will want to just download lilypond and try it out;
who has time to read all the crap on a product's website?
Once they've clicked on the downloaded icon on their screen something
reasonable should happen.

Kees
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:33 pm
Subject: Re: GUI
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org

  Message: 5
  Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:57:27 +
  From: Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca
  Subject: Re: GUI
  To: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
  Cc: lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org
  Message-ID: 20091217235727.ga13...@sapphire
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 [...]
  
  I invite people -- I've *been* inviting people for months
  -- to
  look at the new website.  If you can suggest an
  improvement,
  especially in the Introduction pages, please do.
 
 I thought you got a good suggestion from Bert earlier in this 
 thread, and 
 you said no to it.
 
 LilyPondTool, Frescobaldi, Emacs and Vim are listed under 
 Alternate Input.  Since this link is to the right of 
 Text Input, the implication 
 is that they are alternatives to text input, which of course is 
 false: All the information under the Text input link applies 
 to these programs.
 
 Maybe change Alternate Input to Input software, or Input 
 programs, 
 or Progams, At least One of Which You Will Use to Enter 
 Your Scores if You At All Value Your Time and Sanity.
 
 (Maybe shorten that last one to Programs... and then it could 
 expand to 
 the full phrase when you mouse over it.)
 
 -Jonathan
 
 
   
 
 
 
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Re: GUI

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca
Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:00 am
Subject: Re: GUI
To: Valentin Villenave v.villen...@gmail.com
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Valentin Villenave
 v.villen...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)
  lilypondt...@organum.hu wrote:
  I would like to see options on the download page:
  - Download LilyPond with LilyPondTool (needs Java installed)
  - Download LilyPond with Frescobaldi (Linux only)
  - Download LilyPond without an editor
 
  That would be veeery nice (and that's what I was aiming for 
 with the
  EasyLilyPond project).
 
 No.  The alternate input page is extremely easy to find.
 recommended editors are right at the top of that page.  

Of course, most people do not know what an editor is, except
as some guy that puts articles in newpapers.

Kees

 The only
 thing that needs fixing is setting the new webpage as the new one.
 
 Cheers,
 - Graham
 
 
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Re: GUI

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca
Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: GUI
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Kees van den Doel 
 kvand...@shaw.ca wrote:
 
  From: Graham Percival gra...@percival-music.ca
  On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Valentin Villenave
  No.  The alternate input page is extremely easy to find.
  recommended editors are right at the top of that page.
 
  Of course, most people do not know what an editor is, except
  as some guy that puts articles in newpapers.
 
 Since you obviously haven't looked at the new website, I see no reason
 to take you seriously.

OK, I'll shut up, since I don't take people with that kind of attitude 
seriously.

K :-[



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GUI (was: Re: No Work!

[Kees van den Doel]

If lilypond came with a rudimentary GUI I think it would at least octuple the 
number of people trying it out.

Something simple like a window with File/compile menus, a text editor pane, 
compile messages at bottom,
and a score preview. No more features needed, it's just to get people who don't 
know what a shell or
a text editor is to try it out. They can then start the lilypond program, 
open various example files, change a few notes, and they're hooked!

Kees
- Original Message -
From: James Lowe james.l...@datacore.com
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:41 am
Subject: Re: No Work!
To: Robert Ley robert...@gmail.com
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

  I don't see a log for Lilypond and the finder log doesn't have 
 anything for Lilypond in it. Can you suggest where to look?
  RDL 
 
 Please can you confirm a few things because it really is not clear.
 
 1. Can you save the example file to the desktop with a file name?
 
 2. If you can save the file and you choose the 'compile  
 typeset' 
 option, the log window should pop up...does this happen or not?
 
 3. if the log window does pop up then can you cut and paste from 
 this 
 window?
 
 4. If you cannot do step 1, can you open a new text file, make 
 it plain 
 text and then type { a b c d e f } save it as a test.ly (not 
 test.ly.txt) and then compile the file? Does this work?
 
 Thanks
 
 At the moment you are still not giving us everything, only bits 
 and pieces.
 
 James
 
 PS Please remember to 'reply-all' when emailing.
 
 
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Re: GUI (was: Re: No Work!

[Kees van den Doel]

 I was thinking of something utterly trivial with as few features as possible 
(File open/save and compile).
Maybe call it the lilypond demo.
From people I talk to that try lilypond (after asking what I use to make these 
pretty scores) they download it,
are puzzled (where is the program??), and move on.

What you point to looks like a plan for a serious IDE, I think that's a 
different issue.

Kees
- Original Message -
From: Valentin Villenave v.villen...@gmail.com
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:24 am
Subject: Re: GUI (was: Re: No Work!
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Kees van den Doel 
 kvand...@shaw.ca wrote:
  If lilypond came with a rudimentary GUI I think it would at 
 least octuple the number of people trying it out.
 
 You mean like http://wiki.lilynet.net/index.php/LilyPond_GUI ? We'll
 it's being worked on, though we lack people and resources.
 
 Cheers,
 Valentin
 


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Re: GUI (was: Re: No Work!

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:18 pm
Subject: Re: GUI (was: Re: No Work!
To: lilypond-user lilypond-user@gnu.org

 
 On Dec 15, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  If lilypond came with a rudimentary GUI I think it would at 
 least  
  octuple the number of people trying it out.
 
  Something simple like a window with File/compile menus, a 
 text  
  editor pane, compile messages at bottom,
  and a score preview. No more features needed, it's just to 
 get  
  people who don't know what a shell or
  a text editor is to try it out. They can then start the 
 lilypond  
  program, open various example files, change a few notes, 
 and  
  they're hooked!
 
 2.12.2 for the Mac, at least, came with a simple text editor and 
 some  
 menus.  There's no way to do a score preview window, the 
 file has  
 to be compiled and rendered.

Yes, you compile the .ly and render it.

 For Emacs users, there is a great LilyPond mode which is what I 
 use now.

Me too, bit if you know emacs you are not in the target group.

Kees

 
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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Kees van den Doel]

Don't forget to mention this publication where the Persian microtonal 
accidentals were introduced,
which are the only ones that are standardized (and still absent in lilypond):

Vaziri, A. N., Dastur-e Tàr, Tehran, 1913.

Kees
- Original Message -
From: Joseph Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net

 I'm really pleased to see your work on this as right now I'm 
 working on
 extending the Lilypond docs' content on notating contemporary 
 music --
 one of the topics I'm about to start writing up is microtonal 
 notation.
 I'm not at all familiar with this notation or its logic or 
 history, so
 it would be great if you would consider either writing some
 documentation yourself or exchanging a few emails to help me 
 write up
 appropriate info on this.
 
 Best wishes,
 
     -- Joe
 
 
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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Kees van den Doel]

The Ab's sound horribly out of tune, as if they were meantone G#'s.

Kees
- Original Message -
From: Torsten Anders torstenand...@gmx.de
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:27 pm
Subject: Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Dear Joseph,
 
 This notation is explain in detail in a paper that is part of 
 the font
 distribution itself at
 
    http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/HE-font-2009.zip
 
 Several composers whose work is listed at http://plainsound.org
 actively use this notation, including for large-scale orchestral music
 (!), e.g.,
 
    http://www.plainsound.org/pdfs/sinfonie.pdf
    http://www.plainsound.org/music/sinfonie.m3u
 
 It might be fun to listen to a retuning of Johann Sebastian Bach's
 RICERCAR (Musikalisches Opfer 1) while reading the notation (it is
 great and crazy :)
 
    http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/JSBRicercar.pdf
    
 http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/audio/JSBRicercar.html
 Anyway, if you have further questions don't hesitate to ask.
 
 Best
 Torsten
 
 PS: The code I just send it is already pretty much cleaned up if you
 want to use it for a doc snippet.
 
 
 On 09.09.2009, at 23:32, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
  Torsten Anders wrote:
  Thank you very very much for your help! The output is now almost
  perfect as you can see see in the two examples below. The much
  improved spacing of the first example is solely due to the 
 code you
  suggested.
 
  Dear Torsten,
 
  I'm really pleased to see your work on this as right now I'm working
  on
  extending the Lilypond docs' content on notating contemporary 
 music --
  one of the topics I'm about to start writing up is microtonal
  notation.
 
  I'm not at all familiar with this notation or its logic or 
 history, so
  it would be great if you would consider either writing some
  documentation yourself or exchanging a few emails to help me 
 write up
  appropriate info on this.
 
  Best wishes,
 
    -- Joe
 
 
 
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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Kees van den Doel]

Not sure if it will help you, but you can look at my solution for microtonal 
notation in this package: http://people.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/tmp/persian.zip

Cheers,
Kees



- Original Message -
From: Torsten Anders torstenand...@gmx.de
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:21 am
Subject: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Cc: tun...@yahoogroups.com tun...@yahoogroups.com

 Dear Lilyponders,
 
 Finally, I got some microtonal notation working in Lilypond that uses
 a special font for the accidentals (i.e. not the usual Feta font),
 please see the attached example PDF file. The full Lilypond code is
 included at the end of this mail. This example shows a harmonic
 seventh chord over C (first as an arpeggio and then all notes
 together) using the Extended Helmholtz-Ellis JI Pitch Notation (HE
 for short) by Marc Sabat and Wolfgang von Schweinitz. Besides 
 non-
 Feta accidentals, the example also uses accidentals that consist of
 multiple signs where additional signs show comma inflections (e.g.,
 the septimal comma before the B-flat in the example, the 
 harmonic 7th
 over C). The required font and further information about this
 notation is available at
 
     http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/HE-
 font-2009.zip.
 
 I implemented this microtonal notation by changing the notation of
 accidentals to markups, following an idea by Graham Breed. Doing so
 did not only allow for selecting a different font, but also for
 accidentals that consist of more than a single sign. Changing
 accidentals for individual notes in a chord was particularly tricky,
 and I used an idea by Mark Polesky for this.
 
 Anyway, although this this approach to microtonal notation is already
 usable, it could use some improvements. I would be grateful for
 suggestions.
 
 The main problem is the horizontal spacing. Spacing with single-sign
 accidentals works fine, Lilypond takes care of that automatically.
 However, Lilypond does not know about multiple-sign accidentals, 
 so I
 somehow have to create more horizontal space for these manually. The
 Lily manual (http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/
 lilypond/Horizontal-spacing-overview#Horizontal-spacing-overview)
 suggests as a trick to use the following code, however I could not
 get this approach working. What am I missing?
 
    \once \override Score.SeparationItem #'padding = #1
 
 Instead, I globally increased the horizontal spacing (http://
 lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Changing-
 horizontal-spacing#Changing-horizontal-spacing).
 
 Any further idea to insert some additional horizonal space 
 before a
 note in order to fit in complex accidentals? Spacing of multiple-sign
 accidentals in a chord is even more tricky...
 
 The second issue is the readability of the Lilypond code. I defined
 the music function \accidental that expects a markup and sets the
 accidental of next note to that markup. I also started defining
 readable accidental names that are mapped to the respective markup.
 For example, the following two notes are first an untransposed C and
 then an E a just major third above it: with respect to the
 Phythagorean E it is transposed down by a syntonic comma (see the
 second note in the attached example).
 
     c
     \accidental \naturalSyntonicDown
     e
 
 However, I failed to do the same for chord tones. I need to 
 define a
 music function that creates the following code, but the markup should
 be given as an argument, as above.
 
 \tweak #'before-line-breaking #(accidental-text (markup #:sans m))
 
 The problem might be that I do not know how to automatically
 translate a Lily-syntax markup (e.g., \markup{\sans m}) into the
 Scheme-syntax markup required here.
 
 Of course, I also cordially welcome any other ideas for improving
 this approach to microtonal notation.
 
 Thank you!
 
 Best
 Torsten
 
 --
 Torsten Anders
 Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research
 University of Plymouth
 Office: +44-1752-586219
 Private: +44-1752-558917
 http://strasheela.sourceforge.net
 http://www.torsten-anders.de
 
 
 ---
 %% Lily code (first various defs and then the score at the end)
 
 \version 2.12.00
 
 %% Font HE must be installed (e.g., on MacOS in /Library/Fonts)
 %% Font HE put in as 2nd font: can be accessed as \sans
 \paper{
 #(define fonts (make-pango-font-tree Century Schoolbook L
    HE
    Bitstream Vera Sans Mono
   1))
 }
 
 \layout {
     \context
     { \Score
   %% more space between all notes 
 (to allow for extra accidentals)
   \override SpacingSpanner #'base-
 shortest-duration = #(ly:make- 
 moment 1 16)
   %% all accidentals are written as 
 markups  \override Accidental 
 #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
   %% default is natural accidental -
 - causes error...
   \override Accidental 

Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals

[Kees van den Doel]

   these programs operate as you describe
 
  Okay, then they *do* use (essentially) the same method as Lilypond,
  not some visually-oriented method which follows the key 
 signature...
 
 Not so. In Sibelius, you put the key signature, e.g. F sharp 
 major, then
 type
 the plain letter names, e.g. f g a b c d e f which plays back as 
 the scale

I was talking about MIDI keyboard entry.

 of F sharp major. The Lilypond method seems a bit odd to start with,
 but es and is are easily typed. What's the point of 
 quibbling over it.
 As Graham says, the coders got there first.
 
  So is there *any* example of an application which tries to follow
  the key signature for someone?
 
 Yes - Sibelius.

ABC too. And I never liked it.

Kees


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Re: Accidentals: Unwanted naturals

[Kees van den Doel]

From: Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca:

 Hi David R,
 
  AFAIK, all of the graphical-interface music scoring programs
  use the visually-oriented logic.
 
 The last time I used Finale — which, thankfully, was a very long 
 time  
 ago! ;) — there were only two ways of entering notes:
 
 1. From a MIDI keyboard: Clearly, you can't follow the 
 key  
 signature with this method, since pressing a (MIDI) g-sharp 
 gives a  
 g-sharp, regardless of the key signature.
 2. Mouse/QWERTY keyboard (Speedy?) entry: When you clicked 
 on  
 (e.g.) the g-line of the treble clef, a g-NATURAL 
 appeared,  
 regardless of the key signature, and you had to scroll up or 
 down (or  
 click-add an accidental) to change the pitch/alteration.
 
 Is that not still true? Are there any Finale or Sibelius users 
 out  
 there who can confirm what model these prorgrams use?

Of course these programs operate as you describe. If you edit a piece in G major
and enter the notes through a MIDI keyboard you have to play E F# G, not
E F G, and I can't imagine an other way. Well I can, but it is like playing a 
piano with
a key setting so that when you hit the F, an F# sounds if you set the G-major 
mode.

Kees (An ex Finale user who'll never go back)



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colored voices

[Kees van den Doel]

I want to have one voice all in red but can't find how to set the color of the 
dot after a dotted note,
does anyone know? 

Kees



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Re: Feat. request: autobehaviour of \unfoldRepeats

[Kees van den Doel]

  I wonder why I (and, as I can imagine, 99% of users out there) 
 have always
  to put \unfoldRepeats in a different \score block just for 
 correct MIDI
  output, thus having to put in a variable all the \score 
 content and use it
  in both \score blocks.

I would also prefer \unfoldRepeats to be the default. I frequently use the midi 
as practice material for the musicians.
It's also good to have the repeats in the midi for listening checks to make 
sure you have all the repeats correct,
or that they sound as you had imagined.

Kees


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Re: Quarter-tone notation with arrows

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Joseph Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:21 am
Subject: Quarter-tone notation with arrows
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Hello all,
 
 One of the delights to see in the News for 2.12 was the new 
 material on
 quarter-tone and other microtonal notation.  However, I 
 have one problem...
 
 The standard Lilypond quarter-tone notation uses pitches -is and 
 -es
 (sharp and flat), -ih and -eh (quarter-tone sharp and flat) and -isih
 and -eseh (three-quarter sharp and flat).  This is fine 
 with the
 standard quarter-tone accidentals but arrow notation allows for more
 flexibility: you can have -iseh (sharp, a quarter down) or esih 
 (flat, a
 quarter sharp), and these are not necessarily the same as -ih or 
 -eh,
 just as D-flat is not necessarily the same as C-sharp.
 
 Anyway, from looking at the Makam example it's apparent how to define
 arbitrary pitch names to associate with given microtonal 
 alterations; it
 would be easy to define -iseh and -esih.  What I don't 
 understand is the
 glyph definition, which appears to associate a given alteration 
 uniquelywith a given accidental.
 
 So, for example, a pitch alteration of -1/4 can apparently only be
 associated with one accidental even though theoretically it 
 could be
 represented by _either_ a natural sign with a down-arrow or a 
 flat sign
 with an up-arrow.
 
 The 'if' statements from makam.ly don't give any clue because as 
 far as
 I can tell they relate to a predefined static term (in this 
 case, an
 option as to whether the EKSIK-IKI AND -UC flats should have a slash).
 
 I guess I could cheat by making e.g. -eh -24/100 and -esih -26/100,
 which would give a working solution, but is there a way of 
 getting what
 I want (a full set of quarter-tone arrow accidentals) without 
 such recourse?

A given alteration results in one specific glyph. Of course a -1/4 flat can be 
presented by numerous glyphs,
anything you like, really, but you'll have to decide which one is the default 
and if you want another symbol
at some point in the score (I can't imagine why you would want that) you'll 
have to override the glyph.

Kees


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Re: Quarter-tone notation with arrows

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Joseph Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: Quarter-tone notation with arrows
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Kees van den Doel wrote:
  A given alteration results in one specific glyph.
 
 :-(
 
  Of course a -1/4 flat can be presented by numerous glyphs,
  anything you like, really, but you'll have to decide which one 
 is the default and if you want another symbol
  at some point in the score (I can't imagine why you would want 
 that) you'll have to override the glyph.
 
 Well, why I _want_ it is for much the same reason as why, if you want
 the note that is one semitone in-between C and D, sometimes you 
 want it
 to be a C sharp and sometimes a D flat... :-)
 
 Another reason could be that if your quarter-tones are _approximate_
 rather than precise, it can be helpful to know which of the 12 
 standardnotes you are bending.

Unfortunately Western notation doesn't work like that. Accidentals (microtonal 
or not) operate on the 7
diatonic pitches, not on 12 semitones. I think you think the arrow somehow 
alters
already altered notes (like Bb), but the alteration operates on the diatonic 
notes,
so there can be no difference between natural-quarterflat and 
flat-quartersharp, but
C# and Db are distinct.

 Graham Breed wrote me a nice note suggesting defining some kind of
 override or tweak to redefine the symbol on the fly, but 
 considering it
 I think I'll probably go with 'cheaty' definitions of pitch 
 alterations,like +/- 101/400 (or 1001/4000 or whatever seems 
 most appropriate:-)

I think that works so well and easy that there is no reason to have anything 
better :-)

Kees



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Persian fonts

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi all,

I updated the persian.ly init file with some more Persian keys, instructions 
for setting up the fonts for the Mac (thank you Patrick) and some extended 
examples.

http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/tmp/persian.zip

There are still plenty of problems, for example the Persian accidentals don't 
align well when you change the font size (apart from that they don't look that 
nice). Hopefully they will be integrated in 2.13 at some point.
 
Kees


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Re: mixing notehead styles in chords

[Kees van den Doel]

Does this do the job?

h = #(define-music-function (parser location note) (ly:music?)
  (set!
   (ly:music-property note 'tweaks)
   (acons 'style 'cross
   (ly:music-property note 'tweaks)))
  note) 

  \relative c' {
  a-0 e'-2 a-3 c-1 e-08
  a \h e' \h a \h c e
  a e' a c e
  a \h e' \h a \h c e

  a e' a c e
  a \h e' \h a \h c e
  a e' a c e
  a \h e' \h a \h c e
}

Kees
- Original Message -
From: Steve Yegge steve.ye...@gmail.com
Date: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:13 pm
Subject: mixing notehead styles in chords
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Hello,
 
 In flamenco and bossa-nova guitar music it is quite
 common to damp some (but not all) strings with the
 left hand while strumming.  The standard notation for
 this is to have cross-noteheads on the damped strings
 and normal noteheads on the strings that should ring.
 
 Lilypond makes it extremely tedious to deal with this
 relatively common situation.  It's easy to have the entire
 chord drawn with x-noteheads, but much more difficult
 to get only some of the notes to have x-noteheads.
 
 For instance, let's say we're notating the strumming of
 eighth-note open A-minor chords, like so:
 
     \relative c' {
   a-0 e'-2 a-3 c-1 e-08
   
   
   
 
   
   
   
   
     }
 
 
 So far the music only needs one voice, and it prints in
 an easy-to-read (for guitarists) stacked notation, with one
 stem per chord.
 
 But let's say we want every other chord to be partly
 damped:  strings 2, 3 and 4 have x-noteheads, and
 strings 1 and 5 have normal noteheads.  We don't want
 any other visible changes to the print representation --
 in particular, this is not polyphonic music, so we don't
 want up- and down- stems in the same measure, nor
 notes from any given chord to be horizontally shifted.
 We just want every other chord to have its middle three
 noteheads be crosses.
 
 The only way to accomplish this, as far as I can tell,
 requires many manual steps for each measure:
   - split the music expression into two voices
   - copy the chords into the second voice
   - delete all the normal-notehead notes from one voice
   - delete the cross-notehead notes from the other voice
   - make the stems and beams in the top voice invisible
   - turn off note-column collision warnings
   - in some cases, hack the stem #'length-fraction so
     that the beam from the lower voice clears the 
 higher.
 Doing this for the measure above, we get
 
   
     \relative c' {
   \override Stem #'transparent = ##t
   \override Beam #'transparent = ##t
   \override NoteColumn #'ignore-
 collision = ##t
   e-2 a-3 c-18
   \override NoteHead #'style = #'cross
   e a c
   \revert NoteHead #'style
   e a c
   \override NoteHead #'style = #'cross
   e a c
 
   \revert NoteHead #'style
   e a c
   \override NoteHead #'style = #'cross
   e a c
   \revert NoteHead #'style
   e a c
   \override NoteHead #'style = #'cross
   e a c
   \revert NoteHead #'style
     } \\
     \relative c' {
   \stemUp
   a-0 e''-08   
  
     }
   
 
 This is somewhat labor-intensive, and annoying to read
 (although it can be mitigated a bit with macros).  But the
 real problems have only just begun.  Now that it's been split
 into two voices, everything you add to the staff begins to
 have layout issues.  Take a look at the fingerings in the two
 measures above.  In the one-voice version, the fingerings
 line up nicely, with three above the staff and two below.
 In the two-voice version, most of the fingerings overlap
 with other entities, rendering them unreadable.
 
 You'll run into the same kinds of issues with every kind of
 annotation, from string numbers and right hand fingerings
 through accent marks and TextSpanners.  The hack to
 split the chords into multiple voices wreaks havoc with
 the layout engine as we add more information to the staff.
 
 We could fix this problem by adding another special-case
 similar to \harmonic for cross-noteheads.  But I have a
 sneaking feeling it wouldn't be the last such special case.
 
 It seems like a better solution would be to provide syntax
 support for overriding individual noteheads within a chord
 to be arbitrary glyphs or stencils -- whatever you can do
 with noteheads outside of chords, basically.
 
 But I'd take the hack, for now!  I'm transcribing a piece
 that has many of these partly-damped chords, and I'd love
 to have a way to annotate them properly.
 
 Thanks,
 
 -steve
 
 p.s. Thank you for this awesome system, by the way.



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Re: repeat a set of measures (A to B) later on in the score

[Kees van den Doel]

I just put in the rehearsal marks (\mark \markup{\box A}  etc. where needed)
and when AB is to repeated I just write it on the staff:

\staffText AB g2 s4 \bar |.

g2 is the note that I replace with AB, and staffText is defined as:


staffText = #(define-music-function (parser location marktext)
(string?)
#{
  \once \override NoteHead  #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \once \override NoteHead #'text = #(markup #:whiteout $marktext ) 
  \once \override Stem  #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \once \override Stem #'text = 
#})

Kees
- Original Message -
From: patrick duka patrickd...@gmail.com
Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: repeat a set of measures (A to B) later on in the score
To: Carl D. Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Section 1.2.5 is exactly what I was looking for.
 What I want to do now is repeat the section A-B 4 times in a row 
 but without
 the notes appearing, just the mention A-B.
 I'm going to have a look at 3.3.2 right now and see what I can do.
 thanks Carl.
 
 2009/3/22 Carl D. Sorensen c_soren...@byu.edu
 
 
 
 
  On 3/21/09 5:49 PM, patrick duka patrickd...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   I have a set of measures that I want to repeat several times 
 at different
   times of the score.
  
   I want to put the letter A at the beginning of this set of 
 measures, and
  B at
   the end,
  
   then I want A-B to repeat at some time later on,
  
   1. How can I put this letters ?
 
  You can put the letters with a \mark command.  See 
 Rehearsal Marks in
  section 1.2.5 Bars of the Notation Reference.
  
   2. How can I make A-B to repeat at a different time in the score?
 
  I would define A-B as a variable, and then put it multiple 
 places in the
  score, but when I do that, A-B will be printed out everywhere 
 I put it.
   See
  section 3.3.2 Different Editions from one source to see an 
 example of using
  variables to define music.
 
  I don't know if you are thinking of some kind of repeat that 
 would print
  out
  the section from A-B only once, and then refer to it 
 later.  I don't know
  of
  any musical notation that does that particular thing, but if 
 it exists, I'm
  sure it can be done with LilyPond.
 
  HTH,
 
  Carl
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Patrick



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acciacatura without slur

[Kees van den Doel]

How can I remove the slur from acciacatura (or add a slash to grace)?
Kees


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Re: acciacatura without slur

[Kees van den Doel]

Works. I did look at the hints in ly/grace-init.ly but they didn't help.
You did (with 2 solutions!).
Thanks^2.

Kees

  How can I remove the slur from acciacatura (or add a slash to 
 grace)?
 See the file ly/grace-init.ly for hints.  This is one 
 possible solution:
 
 
 \version 2.12.2
 
 startGraceMusic = { \override Stem #'stroke-style = #grace }
 stopGraceMusic = { \revert Stem #'stroke-style }
 startAcciaccaturaMusic = \startGraceMusic
 stopAcciaccaturaMusic = \stopGraceMusic
 
 \relative c'' {
   g4 \grace { f8 } e8 d c2
   g'4 \acciaccatura { f8 } e8 d c2
 }
 
 
 
 HTH,
 Patrick



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Suppressing dynamics marks

[Kees van den Doel]

How can I correctly suppress printing dynamics marks (which I want for the 
MIDI)?
(I have a score where dynamics is indicated with note size.)

I tried

\override Score.DynamicText #'stencil = ##f

which actually works fine except I get a string of scary error messages:

programming error: cannot align on self: empty element
continuing, cross fingers

Kees



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Vibrato in MIDI

[Kees van den Doel]

Is there a way to put vibrato on a note in the MIDI from a lilypond score?

Thanks,
Kees


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Re: Multiple repeats

[Kees van den Doel]

OK, let me rephrase (and this time in the right list, sorry): is the way to 
indicate
a 4 times repeated set of bars \repeat volta 4 {notes}, followed by a manual 
annotation
indicating repeat 4 times  or is there a better method?

Kees

- Original Message -
From: Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com
Date: Monday, March 2, 2009 12:54 am
Subject: Re: Multiple repeats
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: lilypond-de...@gnu.org

 2009/3/2 Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca:
  How to write multiple repeats? \repeat volta 4 {..} does not 
 indicate that there is more that 1 repeat.
  I'm happy to just write 4X at the end but am I missing 
 something? What's the purpose of the
  number in the \repeat volta command?
 
 The documentation explains it fairly well and offers examples.
 Alternatives and volta brackets are easy to typeset this way.
 http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Long-
 repeats#Normal-repeats
 
 MIDI reflects repeats.
 
 -- 
 Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
 
 The incredible carnival of Badajoz
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/pacovila/tags/carnaval/show/
 


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Re: horizontal spacing

[Kees van den Doel]

 Imho Lilypond uses to many bars on one 'row' in a-4 format. I 
 got about 
 8 bars (4/4), I prefer to have 4.
 I tried to use:
 
 \layout { }
   \midi {
     \context {
   \Score
    \override SpacingSpanner
     #'base-shortest-duration = #(ly:make-moment 1 16)
 
 
 
 But it doesn't seems to work...

I have the following commands to adjust all that in my files (these are set to 
get as many bars on a line as possible, just tweak the numbers):

\version 2.12.2
#(set-global-staff-size 25)

\paper {
  between-system-space = 0\cm
  between-system-padding = #3
  ragged-bottom=##t
  ragged-last-bottom=##t
}


\score {
%...
\layout { 
\context {
  \Score
  \override SpacingSpanner #'base-shortest-duration = #(ly:make-moment 1 1)
  \override SpacingSpanner #'shortest-duration-space  = #0
  \override SpacingSpanner #'spacing-increment  = #0
}

  }
}



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Re: Writing text in a measure

[Kees van den Doel]

  I need something like
  
  music .. |s-\markup {Play loud random notes, then burn your 
 instrument (30s) }| more notes...
 
 This seems to work for me (see attached files).

If I run your test2.ly on 2.12.2 it does *not* work. The output is attached. 
Bug?

Kees



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Re: Color of notes depending on accidentals

[Kees van den Doel]

In the learning material under advanced tweaks with Scheme it shows how to do 
that.
Kees
- Original Message -
From: M Watts zwy648...@gmail.com
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: Color of notes depending on accidentals
To: cuco julio.casa...@me.com
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 cuco wrote:
  Is there is a way to authomatically color notes that are e.g. sharp?
 
 
    
 You'd need a function that says: If note name ends in is, do 
 \override 
 NoteHead #'color = #red, but I don't actually know to do this :eek:
 
 
 
 
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Re: Writing text in a measure

[Kees van den Doel]

Thanks that works except I'm in 2/4, but I can disable the stem easily.
Kees
- Original Message -
From: Robin Bannister r...@dataway.ch
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: Writing text in a measure
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca, Gilles Sadowski 
gil...@harfang.homelinux.org
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Kees van den Doel wrote.
  on 2.12.2 it does *not* work. The output is attached. Bug?
 
 
 It seems to me that LSR 258 is demonstrating only whiteout.
 It is not demonstrating how to deal with the concomitant 
 horizontal layout problems, because it cheats here: 
  - uses ragged-right = ##f (with only one measure) to get 
 lots of space 
  - uses extra-offset to move the text into this space.
 
 And a newish bit of automagic confuses the issue: 
  - 2.12 does short snippets with ragged-right by default; 
  - 2.10 doesn't, and test2.ly specifies 2.10. 
 
 And the s4-\markup of test2.ly doesn't put the text halfway up. 
 
 
 You could do something like LSR 475 to get Lilypond to do the 
 positioning. 
 http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=475
 
 slashAndBurn = {
 \once \override NoteHead  #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
 \once \override NoteHead #'text = #(markup #:whiteout 
  Play loud random notes, then burn your instrument (30 s)  ) }
 
 mm = \relative c'' {
   a4 b c d |
   \slashAndBurn a1 | % a: vertical position  1: 
 notehead only
   e4 d e c |
 }
 
 
 Cheers,
 Robin



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Writing text in a measure

[Kees van den Doel]

I'm trying to write text in an otherwise empty measure (some special 
performance instructions).
not above it or below, but in it.
How can I do that? There is a snippet  doing something like that

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=258

but when I apply it my text overwrites music after the bar in which the text is 
contained.

I need something like

music .. |s-\markup {Play loud random notes, then burn your instrument (30s) 
}| more notes...

Thanks in advance for the help,
Kees



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Persian music

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi all,

Many thanks for all your help, we can now write Persian music!!

If you want to try it you can download the init file persian.ly and
the font file (put in Lilypond font directory) from here:

http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/tmp/persian.zip

and try stuff like:

\include persian.ly
\version 2.12.2
\score {
  \relative c' {
   \set Staff.keySignature = \chahargahD
bk'8 a gs fo r g ak g fs ek d c d ef16 d c4
 }
  \midi { }
  \layout { 
\context {
  \Score \override KeySignature #'text = #chahargahDKey
}
  }
}

Kees



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Custom key signatures

[Kees van den Doel]

I managed to print custom key signatures from a microtonal font. One problem 
remains, and I wonder if anyone can help me.

In my init file persian.ly I have defined variables for various key signatures 
and keys, e.g. for Shur in E

shurEKey = \markup{
  \translate  #'(0 . 1)   \SORISYMBOL
}
shurE = #`(
(3 . ,SORI)
  )

were SORISYMBOL is my UTF-8 code form the font I've loaded.

My source file looks like this:

\include persian.ly
\score {
  \relative c' {
   \set Staff.keySignature = \shurE
   a b c
 }
  \midi { }
  \layout { 
\context {
  \Score \override KeySignature #'text = #shurEKey 
}
  }
}

which works fine. I would instead like to put the statement

 \Score \override KeySignature #'text = #shurEKey 

not in the layout{} but in my music expression, because now I can't change key 
signature in a piece.

If I try that it will complain that shurKey is not a markup.

Can anybody explain what the problem is?

Thanks,
Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

  \override Accidental #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \override Accidental #'font-name = #???
  \override Accidental #'font-size = #?
  \override Accidental #'text = #(lambda (grob)
   (cdr 
 (assoc 
  (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
    persianStrings)))
  \override Accidental #'X-extent = #'(0 . 1)
  \override Accidental #'Y-extent = #'(-1 . 1)

  and so on for KeySignature 

I added lookup code for the positioning of the symbols and it works great with 
Pertout's microtonal font (http://www.pertout.com/PhD2007Introduction.htm), 
sample attached! Thanks again.

But  can't understand how to get KeySignature to print these symbols though, 
anyone out there
that understands how to do that? Should KeySignature have a list in # 'text 
perhaps?

Kees



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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

Then in \context add
 
 \override Accidental #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
 \override Accidental #'font-name = #???
 \override Accidental #'font-size = #?
 \override Accidental #'text = #(lambda (grob)
  (cdr (assoc 
 (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
   persianStrings)))
 \override Accidental #'X-extent = #'(0 . 1)
 \override Accidental #'Y-extent = #'(-1 . 1)

Works great with the typo's fixed. Is there a way to do this only for koron and 
sori and render the
normal accidentals as usual?

 and so on for KeySignature 

If I do the same for KeySignature

\override KeySignature #'text = #(lambda (grob)
  (cdr (assoc 
 (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
   persianStrings)))

gives me an error. It's been almost 20 years since I've used Scheme and I don't 
remember
enough to be able to guess what the problem is...

and whatever else you want to use 
 the new symbols.  The font name is what Pango uses to find 
 the new font and you may need to adjust the font size.  For 
 the best results use lookups for the X- and Y-extents as well.

Thanks a lot!

Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 2:06 am
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca, Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se, 
lilypond lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Kees van den Doel wrote:
  Hi Folks,
  
  I made an init file persian.ly with support for Persian 
 accidentals and scale signatures.
  The only thing missing is correct glyphs for koron and sori. I 
 include it below.
 
 You don't want glyphs.  You want strings, because we're not 
 expecting a music font, so the mechanism for glyphs won't work.
 
 This can stay here:
 
  % Define accidental symbols. 
  % Really need to have accidentals.koron and accidentals.sori
  
  persianGlyphs = #`((-3/10 . accidentals.mirroredflat)
     (1/5 . 
 accidentals.sharp.slashslash.stem)    (0 . accidentals.natural)
     (1/2 . 
 accidentals.sharp)    
 (-1/2 . accidentals.flat)
     (-1/10 . )
     (-3/5 . )
     (-1 . 
 accidentals.flatflat)    ( 1 . accidentals.doublesharp)
  )
 
 Then add:
 
 persianStrings = #`((-3/10 . ???)
     (1/5 . ???)
 ...
 )
 
 where the ??? are replaced with the UTF-8 strings of the 
 symbols you want.  Then in \context add
 
 \override Accidental #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
 \override Accidental #'text = #accidental-text
 \override Accidental #'font-name = #???
 \override Accidental #'font-size = #?
 \override Accidental #'text = #(lambda (grob)
  (cdr (assoc 
 (ly:grob-property grob 'alteration)
   persianStrings)))
 \override Accidental #'X-extent = #(0 . 1)
 \override Accidental #'Y-extent = #(-1 . 1)
 
 and so on for KeySignature and whatever else you want to use 
 the new symbols.  The font name is what Pango uses to find 
 the new font and you may need to adjust the font size.  For 
 the best results use lookups for the X- and Y-extents as well.
 
 Something I'm doing is causing a bug on another system, but 
 this works for me.

Tried it, it does print the character but on the note and I'm getting a bunch 
of errors:

c:/Program Files/LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/ly/persian.ly:200:35: 
error: GUILE signaled an error for the expression beginning here

\override Accidental #'text = #

   accidental-text


c:/Program Files/LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/ly/persian.ly:206:39: 
error: GUILE signaled an error for the expression beginning here

\override Accidental #'X-extent = #

   (0 . 1)


c:/Program Files/LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/ly/persian.ly:207:39: 
error: GUILE signaled an error for the expression beginning here

\override Accidental #'Y-extent = #

   (-1 . 1)


Interpreting music... 

Interpreting music... 

warning: type check for `text' failed; value `#unspecified' must be of type 
`markup'

warning: type check for `X-extent' failed; value `#unspecified' must be of 
type `pair of numbers'

warning: type check for `Y-extent' failed; value `#unspecified' must be of 
type `pair of numbers'

Preprocessing graphical objects...

MIDI output to `t2.mid'...

Finding the ideal number of pages...

Fitting music on 1 page...

Drawing systems...

Layout output to `t2.ps'...

Converting to `./t2.pdf'...

error: failed files: t2

Unbound variable: accidental-text

Wrong number of arguments to 0

Wrong number of arguments to -1


Any idea of what is the problem?

Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

  If you look at the persian.ly file I sent, you will find the
  symbol for that I think (a blank).
 
  On the other hand if you meant not the glyph but the input suffix...
 
 Perhaps an unfortunate choice of word: as a musical 
 function,  
 regardless whether it is notated.
 
  ...you're right that I need to define
  also flat-20C, e.g. in G Ap Bb, with Bb 20C flat. I don't 
 see why  
  I should need something else
  to raise an interval, can you show me an example?
 
 D# E#p F-raised - I just added a sharp to your example.

Oh, I see, but non-white key finalis is never used, yet for completeness I'll 
add it too.
It should of course be notated D# E#p F#, with the F# tuned 20 C down.

Thanks,
Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:12 am
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca, Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com, 
lilypond lilypond-user@gnu.org

 On 16 Feb 2009, at 03:48, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  The note immediately  following a koron is 
 sometimes  (when the  
  interval
  defined by  the note  before the koron  and 
 after  the koron is  a  
  minor
  third, and the note below the  finalis in esfahan 
 according to some  
  (but
  not all)  Persian musicians))  lowered by 
 about  20 cents.  This  is  
  not
  notated, but considered part of the scale tuning.
 
 Might you give some examples of this (which written notes)?

E.g., D Ep F (F 20 cent flat, so actually D Ep and Ep F are the same interval)

Kees
 
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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

I guess you need context more than resolution; here's a couple of scanned pages:

http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/tmp/koronSori.pdf

Kees

- Original Message -
From: Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:54 pm
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: beh...@videotron.qc.ca, lilypond-user@gnu.org

 
  I made an init file persian.ly with support for Persian
  accidentals and scale signatures.
  The only thing missing is correct glyphs for koron and sori. I
  include it below.
 
 Can someone please provide high-resolution scans of the Persian stuff
 in action?  What I've seen so far are some low-resolution 
 images which
 are rather useless to understand how it should really look like.
 
 
     Werner



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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

- Original Message -
From: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:52 pm
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca, Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com, 
lilypond lilypond-user@gnu.org

 On 16 Feb 2009, at 21:43, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
   Might you give some examples of this (which written notes)?
 
  E.g., D Ep F (F 20 cent flat, so actually D Ep and Ep F are 
 the same  
  interval)
 
 If the musical function or intent is that these intervals should 
 be  
 equal, then the note is F#pp, that is, a double koron.

Cute, I never thought of that! However it does't quite work because  the 
*approximate* 20C fat
is independent of the koron (which is *approximately* 40C).  So the equation
'' = #p' is an exact constraint.

Anyways the 20C flat note is not considered an accidental, not notated, 
inconsistently used, and
irrelevant for notation.

 One has 
 (in any  
 tuning) F#pp - Ep = F#p - E = F - E = n, where n is the 
 neutral  
 second that Farhat uses, the same as Ep - D, then.


 On the other hand, if it is lowered an unspecified amount, then 
 when  
 transposed, you will need another symbol that raises an interval 
 so  
 that the sum is M-m.

If you look at the persian.ly file I sent, you will find the symbol for that I 
think (a blank).
 
Kees
    Hans
 
 



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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

  On the other hand, if it is lowered an unspecified amount, 
 then 
  when  
  transposed, you will need another symbol that raises an 
 interval 
  so  
  that the sum is M-m.
 
 If you look at the persian.ly file I sent, you will find the 
 symbol for that I think (a blank).

On the other hand if you meant not the glyph but the input suffix you're right 
that I need to define
also flat-20C, e.g. in G Ap Bb, with Bb 20C flat. I don't see why I should 
need something else
to raise an interval, can you show me an example?

Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

I found a font which has the koron and sori, apparently it's available in 
Finale.

See http://www.pertout.com/PhD2007Introduction.htm links at bottom (downloads) 
for the fonts.

I have no idea how to use this in lilypond though.

Kees
- Original Message -

- Original Message -
From: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se, Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com, lilypond 
lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Yes of-course send me any relevant picture of Persian music 
 notation.  
 I'm currently in the phase of collecting information as much 
 as  
 possible.
 I also need to study more about the specifics of font making 
 for  
 LilyPond. I did not have time yet to delve in this issue. But 
 I'm  
 pretty much confident it's a no brainer.
 What I'm not clear about is that you don't need just a 
 font  
 containing two glyphs for Sori and Koron right? You need a 
 font  
 containing all necessary glyphs for music writing, including 
 Sori and  
 Koron. So I have to add them to an existing font. Did I 
 understand it  
 correctly? I don't think I will be able to design ALL of them. 
 I'll  
 be able to design Sori and Koron (and Tahrir and whatever else 
 I  
 found consistently used) in visual harmony with other 
 existing  
 notations.
 
 I will get back to you when I collected the information I need. 
 I did  
 not have time to study the font part yet. I will get back to you 
 when  
 I have a clearer idea about the whole issue.
 
 Behnam
 
 On 2-Feb-09, at 7:20 PM, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  If you want to support  more Persian notation the most 
 important  
  (and universal) is probably the symbol for tahrir, which is a 
 small  
  o above (if stems up) or below (if stems down) and in the 
 middle of  
  two equal notes.
  Something like
     o   
 o    - tahrir
  O  O  O
  |    |   |
  |    |   |
 
  it indicates a small grace note of undefined pitch.
 
  There are some symbols for tar/setar and santur as well, let 
 me  
  know if you want to see any.
 
  Kees
   - Original Message -
  From: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca
  Date: Monday, February 2, 2009 2:46 pm
  Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
  To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
  Cc: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se, Graham Breed  
  gbr...@gmail.com, lilypond lilypond-user@gnu.org
 
  I also hopefully will get some pictures from Iran.
  The thickness of the lines have also something to do with its
  harmony
  with other music notes. So this is not much of an issue. But
  the
  basic shaping has something that should be looked more
  carefully. But
  generally speaking it is pretty clear to me.
  There is apparently some specific notation marks for some
  specific
  instruments as well (Taar for example) I'm waiting for the scans
  to
  see what's the situation.
  Behnam
  On 2-Feb-09, at 4:50 PM, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
 
  On 2 Feb 2009, at 20:58, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  I have several shelves of Persian music books and I have never
  seen
  that variation.
  The sori is always a rotated = with an  on it, and the koron
  akways
  has the '' body.
 
  That is good to know - I think what you say is best, being
  most
  distinguishable (like from an inverted b or some other sharp
  variation).
  There is a small subtlety: the usual sharp # is usually 
 drawn a
  bit
  slanted (endpoints of vertical bars not exactly level, but
  moving up).
  I think this may have to do with how the horizontal lines =
  are
  drawn (somewhat slanted upwards). These horizontal lines are
  also
  usually drawn fat.
 
  Can you see in your examples how the sori is drawn in these
  respects?
  That is, are vertical line endpoints level,
 
  No, the vertical lines are just as in the normal sharp.
 
  and is the  fatter?
 
  Usually not, but they are handwritten.  I'll scan in some
  more
  examples to compare.
 
  Kees
 
 
 



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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

Hi Folks,

I made an init file persian.ly with support for Persian accidentals and scale 
signatures.
The only thing missing is correct glyphs for koron and sori. I include it below.

Kees
- Original Message -
From: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com
Cc: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca, Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se, 
lilypond lilypond-user@gnu.org

 On 15-Feb-09, at 6:45 PM, Graham Breed wrote:
 
  Behnam Rassi wrote:
  Yes Kees I downloaded the font and saw the glyphs.
  This is as far as I can go with my current work too. Except 
 that I  
  will add additional Persian music notations (and perhaps 
 somewhat  
  better looking glyphs!). But I can only produce a font in 
 ttf  
  format, another one perhaps in otf format. I can also extract 
 the  
  glyphs in EPS format individually. I wouldn't know how to put 
 them  
  in LilyPond.
 
  You need to say what interval (as a fraction of a 200 cent 
 whole  
  tone) you want each symbol to correspond to.
 
 I guess this has been already sorted out for koron and sori 
 before I  
 was exposed to this. If not, I can do some research to provide 
 the  
 information. The other notations I mentioned are more like 
 overhead  
 marks about 'how' the note should sound and not 'what'.
 I'm not finished with my work yet. I may be able to explain more 
 when  
 I'm done. It's still a couple of weeks to go I guess.
 
 Behnam
 
 
--BEGIN--persian.ly
\version 2.12.0
%{
Author: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca

This  file  defines  Persian  microtonal  alterations,  the  approximate
quartertone   flat  (koron)  and   the  approximate   quartertone  sharp
(sori). They can be obtained by  appending 'k' (koron) and 'o' (sori) to
the English note symbol.  The  standard symbols for this were introduced
by Vaziri. For now I've represented them by accidentals.mirroredflat and
accidentals.sharp.slashslash.stem.

Key signatures are defined for all the Persian modes, there are 5 scales
with microtones  and the  normal major scale.  All the gushe's  from all
dastgahs can be notated with these 6.

The note immediately  following a koron is sometimes  (when the interval
defined by  the note  before the koron  and after  the koron is  a minor
third, and the note below the  finalis in esfahan according to some (but
not all)  Persian musicians))  lowered by about  20 cents.  This  is not
notated, but considered part of the scale tuning. To accomodate this for
getting better sounding  MIDI I've introduced the vlat  (append 'v' to
the note) to indicate this. Actually  this note should also get a strong
vibrato,  and the  vibrato and  low tuning  are  perceptually integrated
(serialism!).

In the tuning  I've followed Traditional Persian Art  Music, by Dariush
Tala'i.  The  tunings are  also very close  to those suggested  in The
Dastgah  Concept in  Persian Music,  by  Hormoz Farhat.   See also  Le
repertoire-modele  de  la  musique  iranienne,  by  Jean  During  which
contains measurements of the intervals in actual practice.

There are no other tuning issues  in Persian music. Because the music is
monophonic  the difference  between  just intonation  (for example)  and
equal temperament  is not academic, because  are no chords  where out of
tune intervals are noticeable.

Note name suffixes:

ff for double-flat
f  for flat
k  for koron (about quarter-flat, -3/10 of whole tone, 
60 cent)
o  for sori  (about quarter-sharp, 2/10 of whole tone, 
40 cent)
s  for sharp
x  for double-sharp
v  for 20 cent flat tuned note (vlat, not notated)
%}

% Define tunings:

#(define-public KORON -3/10)
#(define-public SORI 1/5)
#(define-public VLAT -1/10)

pitchnamesEnglish = #`(
(cflatflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 DOUBLE-FLAT))
(cflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 FLAT))
(c . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 NATURAL))
(csharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SHARP))
(csharpsharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 DOUBLE-SHARP))
(dflatflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 DOUBLE-FLAT))
(dflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 FLAT))
(d . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 NATURAL))
(dsharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SHARP))
(dsharpsharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 DOUBLE-SHARP))
(eflatflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 DOUBLE-FLAT))
(eflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 FLAT))
(e . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 NATURAL))
(esharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 SHARP))
(esharpsharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 DOUBLE-SHARP))
(fflatflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 DOUBLE-FLAT))
(fflat . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 FLAT))
(f . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 NATURAL))
(fsharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 SHARP))
(fsharpsharp . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 DOUBLE-SHARP))
(gflatflat

Customized accidentals

[Kees van den Doel]

This snippet:

http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=378

does not work as advertised; it prints both the normal accidentals and the 
custom postscript.
Any suggestions on what might be wrong? Also, how could I print custom symbols 
like this in the key signature?

Thanks,
Kees
--
%http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=378
upp =
#(define-music-function (parser location note)   (ly:music?)
 #{ \once \override Voice.Accidental #'stencil =
  #ly:text-interface::print
\once \override Voice.Accidental #'text =
  \markup {\musicglyph #accidentals.sharp
   \postscript #gsave 0.17 setlinewidth -1.4 0.5 moveto -1.4 2 lineto
   stroke grestore
   gsave 0.1 setlinewidth -1.7 1.4 moveto -1.4 2.18 lineto -1.1 1.4 lineto
   stroke grestore}
$note #})


dwn =
#(define-music-function (parser location note)   (ly:music?)
 #{ \once \override Voice.Accidental #'stencil =
  #ly:text-interface::print
\once \override Voice.Accidental #'text =
  \markup {\musicglyph #accidentals.flat
   \postscript #0.17 setlinewidth -2 0.5 moveto -0.6 1.8 lineto
   stroke 
   }
$note #})

\relative {
   d \dwn bes d \upp gis
}


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Re: Customized accidentals

[Kees van den Doel]

No I do not need to do precisely that, but something else.
Kees

- Original Message -
From: M Watts zwy648...@gmail.com
Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009 3:11 pm
Subject: Re: Customized accidentals
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Kees van den Doel wrote:
  This snippet:
 
  http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=378
 
  does not work as advertised; it prints both the normal 
 accidentals and the custom postscript.
  Any suggestions on what might be wrong? Also, how could I 
 print custom symbols like this in the key signature?
    
 
 Do you really need to do this with 2.12.2?  A quick look at 
 http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/The-
 Feta-font#The-Feta-font 
 reveals that such accidentals are now available by default, e.g.:
 
 \musicglyph #accidentals.flat.slash
 \musicglyph #accidentals.sharp.arrowup
 ||



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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

  standard fonts I'd have thought if we're only talking two new 
 glyphs.
 Though there are some variations, I think they semantically the 
 same.  
 The variation used by Farhat is for koron like an inverted flat 
 b, but  
 with the loop have the form , and for the sori, a sharp # but 
 with  
 the horizontal lines changed to a . A variation can be seen on
    http://www.96edo.com/24_EDO.html
 The small koron look like an inverted flat b without shape 
 change, and  
 the large sori uses a largish  with the vertical lines slanted.

I have several shelves of Persian music books and I have never seen that 
variation.
The sori is always a rotated = with an  on it, and the koron akways has the 
'' body.

Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

 On 2 Feb 2009, at 20:58, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  I have several shelves of Persian music books and I have never 
 seen  
  that variation.
  The sori is always a rotated = with an  on it, and the koron 
 akways  
  has the '' body.
 
 That is good to know - I think what you say is best, being 
 most  
 distinguishable (like from an inverted b or some other sharp 
 variation).
 There is a small subtlety: the usual sharp # is usually drawn a 
 bit  
 slanted (endpoints of vertical bars not exactly level, but 
 moving up).  
 I think this may have to do with how the horizontal lines = 
 are  
 drawn (somewhat slanted upwards). These horizontal lines are 
 also  
 usually drawn fat.
 
 Can you see in your examples how the sori is drawn in these 
 respects?  
 That is, are vertical line endpoints level, 

No, the vertical lines are just as in the normal sharp.

 and is the  fatter?

Usually not, but they are handwritten.  I'll scan in some more examples to 
compare.

Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

If you want to support  more Persian notation the most important (and 
universal) is probably the symbol for tahrir, which is a small o above (if 
stems up) or below (if stems down) and in the middle of two equal notes.
Something like
   o   o- tahrir
O  O  O   
||   |
||   |

it indicates a small grace note of undefined pitch.

There are some symbols for tar/setar and santur as well, let me know if you 
want to see any.

Kees
 - Original Message -
From: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se, Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com, lilypond 
lilypond-user@gnu.org

 I also hopefully will get some pictures from Iran.
 The thickness of the lines have also something to do with its 
 harmony  
 with other music notes. So this is not much of an issue. But 
 the  
 basic shaping has something that should be looked more 
 carefully. But  
 generally speaking it is pretty clear to me.
 There is apparently some specific notation marks for some 
 specific  
 instruments as well (Taar for example) I'm waiting for the scans 
 to  
 see what's the situation.
 Behnam
 On 2-Feb-09, at 4:50 PM, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
 
  On 2 Feb 2009, at 20:58, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  I have several shelves of Persian music books and I have never
  seen
  that variation.
  The sori is always a rotated = with an  on it, and the koron
  akways
  has the '' body.
 
  That is good to know - I think what you say is best, being
  most
  distinguishable (like from an inverted b or some other sharp
  variation).
  There is a small subtlety: the usual sharp # is usually drawn a
  bit
  slanted (endpoints of vertical bars not exactly level, but
  moving up).
  I think this may have to do with how the horizontal lines =
  are
  drawn (somewhat slanted upwards). These horizontal lines are
  also
  usually drawn fat.
 
  Can you see in your examples how the sori is drawn in these
  respects?
  That is, are vertical line endpoints level,
 
  No, the vertical lines are just as in the normal sharp.
 
  and is the  fatter?
 
  Usually not, but they are handwritten.  I'll scan in some 
 more  
  examples to compare.
 
  Kees
 



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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

Really all that's lacking is the koron and sori. A small o is fine for the 
tahrir, we have that already.
Kees

- Original Message -
From: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
Cc: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se, Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com, lilypond 
lilypond-user@gnu.org

 Yes of-course send me any relevant picture of Persian music 
 notation.  
 I'm currently in the phase of collecting information as much as  
 possible.
 I also need to study more about the specifics of font making for  
 LilyPond. I did not have time yet to delve in this issue. But I'm  
 pretty much confident it's a no brainer.
 What I'm not clear about is that you don't need just a font  
 containing two glyphs for Sori and Koron right? You need a font  
 containing all necessary glyphs for music writing, including Sori 
 and  
 Koron. So I have to add them to an existing font. Did I understand 
 it  
 correctly? I don't think I will be able to design ALL of them. I'll 
 
 be able to design Sori and Koron (and Tahrir and whatever else I  
 found consistently used) in visual harmony with other existing  
 notations.
 
 I will get back to you when I collected the information I need. I 
 did  
 not have time to study the font part yet. I will get back to you 
 when  
 I have a clearer idea about the whole issue.
 
 Behnam
 
 On 2-Feb-09, at 7:20 PM, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  If you want to support  more Persian notation the most important  
  (and universal) is probably the symbol for tahrir, which is a 
 small  
  o above (if stems up) or below (if stems down) and in the middle 
 of  
  two equal notes.
  Something like
 o   o- tahrir
  O  O  O
  ||   |
  ||   |
 
  it indicates a small grace note of undefined pitch.
 
  There are some symbols for tar/setar and santur as well, let me  
  know if you want to see any.
 
  Kees
   - Original Message -
  From: Behnam Rassi beh...@videotron.qc.ca
  Date: Monday, February 2, 2009 2:46 pm
  Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
  To: Kees van den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
  Cc: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se, Graham Breed  
  gbr...@gmail.com, lilypond lilypond-user@gnu.org
 
  I also hopefully will get some pictures from Iran.
  The thickness of the lines have also something to do with its
  harmony
  with other music notes. So this is not much of an issue. But
  the
  basic shaping has something that should be looked more
  carefully. But
  generally speaking it is pretty clear to me.
  There is apparently some specific notation marks for some
  specific
  instruments as well (Taar for example) I'm waiting for the scans
  to
  see what's the situation.
  Behnam
  On 2-Feb-09, at 4:50 PM, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
 
  On 2 Feb 2009, at 20:58, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  I have several shelves of Persian music books and I have never
  seen
  that variation.
  The sori is always a rotated = with an  on it, and the koron
  akways
  has the '' body.
 
  That is good to know - I think what you say is best, being
  most
  distinguishable (like from an inverted b or some other sharp
  variation).
  There is a small subtlety: the usual sharp # is usually drawn a
  bit
  slanted (endpoints of vertical bars not exactly level, but
  moving up).
  I think this may have to do with how the horizontal lines =
  are
  drawn (somewhat slanted upwards). These horizontal lines are
  also
  usually drawn fat.
 
  Can you see in your examples how the sori is drawn in these
  respects?
  That is, are vertical line endpoints level,
 
  No, the vertical lines are just as in the normal sharp.
 
  and is the  fatter?
 
  Usually not, but they are handwritten.  I'll scan in some
  more
  examples to compare.
 
  Kees
 
 
 
 


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Re: Persian accidentals

[Kees van den Doel]

  Is there any way to print the koron (60cents flat) and sori 
 (40 cent
  sharp)?
 
  Check with Graham Breed - it might be possible now.
 
 You can use any glyph, or string of glyphs, you have in a 
 font. 

OK, my question then is: how? Assume I edit the font svg files 
emmentaler-??.svg and 
put in the koron and sori code and put in something called accidentals.koron. 
Or even just
overwriting accidentals.mirroredflat. How do I then compile these changes?

 haven't seen a mention here of such a font being available

It is available in  an abc variant, but can only be printed above the notes.

Thanks,
Kees


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Re: Persian accidentals

[Kees van den Doel]

  Is there any way to print the koron (60cents flat) and sori 
 (40 cent  sharp)?

 I am curious where you got those figures. The values in 
 Hormoz  
 Farhat's thesis suggest one should use E53 with koron lowering 
 3  
 commas and sori raising 2 commas (E53 tonesteps). He describes 
 the  
 Persian pitch system using a minor (resp. major) second m (resp. 
 M)  
 plus a neutral second n. In E53 they are m = 4, M = 9, n = 6.
 
 Then I wanted to retune m, M into E12. There is a suggestion 
 that n  
 can be set to the rational interval 27/25, which is close to 
 Farhat's  
 values, and also sound good in Scala. If I fix n at that value, 
 a  
 close approximation is E36, or if you so like, in E12 let (koron 
 resp.  
 sori) lower 2/3 (resp. raise 1/3) of an E12 tonestep.
 
 Now, this is very close to your suggestion, making me curious 
 about  
 the motivation for those setting those.

Hormoz Farhat was not a practicing musician, so I would not rely too much on 
his thesis and book.
For sources and details of Persian tuning please see my website
http://members.shaw.ca/persianney section techinque-fingering and tuning.

In terms of lilypond support for Persian music the koron and sori glyphs are 
all that's needed for
notation, but for midi rendering we'd need also at least the 20 cent flat note, 
which is not notated
but considered part of tuning. Also the minor second is often small up to 10 
cent.

Kees


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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

Here's an example from a Persian music book.
Kees

- Original Message -
From: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se
Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
To: Behnam behnam.ra...@gmail.com
Cc: Unicode Mailing List unic...@unicode.org, LilyPond users list 
lilypond-user@gnu.org, Graham Breed gbr...@gmail.com, Kees van den Doel 
kvand...@shaw.ca

 On 1 Feb 2009, at 22:35, Behnam wrote:
 
  LilyPond now has the capability to typeset these, if one can 
 get  
  hold of glyphs, and produce correctly tuned MIDI files.
 
  I may be able to produce the glyph (with some additional 
 studies)  
  but I can only support you in getting the code for it.
 
 It would be great - I searched for that on the Internet and 
 could not  
 find it.
 
 Graham Breed or Kees van den Doel on the LilyPond list may know 
 better  
 exactly what might be needed.
 
    Hans
 
 

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Re: Persian musical koron and sori

[Kees van den Doel]

 Is this for tuning a key or marking a specific note? or both?

Both. They are used exactly as normal accidentals.

Kees

 Behnam
 On 1-Feb-09, at 6:07 PM, Kees van den Doel wrote:
 
  Here's an example from a Persian music book.
  Kees
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Hans Aberg hab...@math.su.se
  Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009 2:14 pm
  Subject: Re: Persian musical koron and sori
  To: Behnam behnam.ra...@gmail.com
  Cc: Unicode Mailing List unic...@unicode.org, LilyPond 
 users list  
  lilypond-user@gnu.org, Graham Breed 
 gbr...@gmail.com, Kees van  
  den Doel kvand...@shaw.ca
 
  On 1 Feb 2009, at 22:35, Behnam wrote:
 
  LilyPond now has the capability to typeset these, if one can
  get
  hold of glyphs, and produce correctly tuned MIDI files.
 
  I may be able to produce the glyph (with some additional
  studies)
  but I can only support you in getting the code for it.
 
  It would be great - I searched for that on the Internet and
  could not
  find it.
 
  Graham Breed or Kees van den Doel on the LilyPond list may know
  better
  exactly what might be needed.
 
     Hans
 
 
 
  koronSori.jpg
 



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