Re: Anyone have experience with PDF/A-1b?
Am 2014-10-15 um 08:26 schrieb Vaughan McAlley vaug...@mcalley.net.au: I want to try to produce PDF/A-1b files from Lilypond to submit to the Australian Music Centre (australianmusiccentre.com.au). It looks like it would be possible to do this by exporting to Postscript and using Ghostscript: http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/9.14/Ps2pdf.htm#PDFA Has anyone done this and have any tips or pitfalls before I start on this journey myself? The only thing missing in LilyPond’s PDF files is the XMP metadata mark of PDF/A-1(b). Every other requirement is fulfilled, as soon as you disable links. #(ly:set-option (quote no-point-and-click)) The reasons they give against „regular“ PDFs are not valid, at least for LilyPond’s PDFs - I guess they experienced some really bad data (maybe scanned scores in PDFs, but even that wouldn’t require printing and re-scanning). Probably they just don’t know what they’re talking about - I had similar nonsensical requirements from several printshops. Greetlings, Hraban --- fiëé visuëlle Henning Hraban Ramm http://www.fiee.net http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/ https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Anyone have experience with PDF/A-1b?
On 15/10/14 12:52, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote: Am 2014-10-15 um 08:26 schrieb Vaughan McAlley vaug...@mcalley.net.au: I want to try to produce PDF/A-1b files from Lilypond to submit to the Australian Music Centre (australianmusiccentre.com.au). It looks like it would be possible to do this by exporting to Postscript and using Ghostscript: http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/9.14/Ps2pdf.htm#PDFA Has anyone done this and have any tips or pitfalls before I start on this journey myself? The only thing missing in LilyPond’s PDF files is the XMP metadata mark of PDF/A-1(b). Every other requirement is fulfilled, as soon as you disable links. #(ly:set-option (quote no-point-and-click)) The reasons they give against „regular“ PDFs are not valid, at least for LilyPond’s PDFs - I guess they experienced some really bad data (maybe scanned scores in PDFs, but even that wouldn’t require printing and re-scanning). Probably they just don’t know what they’re talking about - I had similar nonsensical requirements from several printshops. Some printshop's pre-press setting equipment/software can be very specific when having to deal with PostScript files (including PDFs) and outputting them to plate or film. That's not the fault of the print shops (they are not 'computer' literate as such usually, but know what a PDF file is). That's not to say it will be an issue, but it won't hurt to ask why they ask for such specific requirements and glean if it is because they are told to or that is what they always require (which usually indicates the pre-process software they use will check (for whatever it checks for) when processing the files) or if there is a technical issue they can tell you. I cannot speak for all print shops but have had experience with malformed PS files in the past when I used to work at a 'printshop'. It can cost a lot of money if a file is processed and the material that comes out at the other end is garbage - aluminium plates or film costs a lot of money for them and their margins are small enough as it is, assuming they are litho printing than just 'laser printing' (even so the ink still costs them money). James ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Anyone have experience with PDF/A-1b?
Am 2014-10-15 um 19:10 schrieb James pkx1...@gmail.com: The reasons they give against „regular“ PDFs are not valid, at least for LilyPond’s PDFs - I guess they experienced some really bad data (maybe scanned scores in PDFs, but even that wouldn’t require printing and re-scanning). Probably they just don’t know what they’re talking about - I had similar nonsensical requirements from several printshops. Some printshop's pre-press setting equipment/software can be very specific when having to deal with PostScript files (including PDFs) and outputting them to plate or film. That's not the fault of the print shops (they are not 'computer' literate as such usually, but know what a PDF file is). That's not to say it will be an issue, but it won't hurt to ask why they ask for such specific requirements and glean if it is because they are told to or that is what they always require (which usually indicates the pre-process software they use will check (for whatever it checks for) when processing the files) or if there is a technical issue they can tell you. I cannot speak for all print shops but have had experience with malformed PS files in the past when I used to work at a 'printshop'. It can cost a lot of money if a file is processed and the material that comes out at the other end is garbage - aluminium plates or film costs a lot of money for them and their margins are small enough as it is, assuming they are litho printing than just 'laser printing' (even so the ink still costs them money). Hi James, of course not every printshop is incompetent. But I’m a printing engineer who knows the PDF specs as well as their application in prepress. I used to work in printshops and prepress agencies most of my professional life (now self-employed), and often had to prepare data for the printshops that my customers chose. A big one e.g. requested PDFs as single pages with all text transformed to curves, others didn’t want bleed or didn’t manage to keep 100% size (because they printed to film using Acrobat’s page size adaption), color management is over the head of most (I know it’s difficult, but you can’t avoid professional knowledge forever) etc. And of course they don’t understand the error messages of their workflow software … :-( I stop here since it’s off topic on this list, besides ranting doesn’t help anyone ;-) Greetlings, Hraban --- fiëé visuëlle Henning Hraban Ramm http://www.fiee.net http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/ https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Anyone have experience with PDF/A-1b?
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm lilypon...@fiee.net wrote: Hi James, of course not every printshop is incompetent. But I’m a printing engineer who knows the PDF specs as well as their application in prepress. I used to work in printshops and prepress agencies most of my professional life (now self-employed), and often had to prepare data for the printshops that my customers chose. A big one e.g. requested PDFs as single pages with all text transformed to curves, others didn’t want bleed or didn’t manage to keep 100% size (because they printed to film using Acrobat’s page size adaption), color management is over the head of most (I know it’s difficult, but you can’t avoid professional knowledge forever) etc. And of course they don’t understand the error messages of their workflow software … :-( I stop here since it’s off topic on this list, besides ranting doesn’t help anyone ;-) Hraban, That's probably true about the ranting, but it's also nice to know that people here have real industry experience with this matter! So, thanks to all of you who know about this kind of stuff, for being here to bounce our questions off of. Regards, Abraham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Anyone have experience with PDF/A-1b?
The only thing missing in LilyPond’s PDF files is the XMP metadata mark of PDF/A-1(b). Would it be much work to implement that? LilyPond seems to write file metadata like the title. The format is PDF-1.4, for example. Joram ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Anyone have experience with PDF/A-1b?
Am 2014-10-16 um 01:24 schrieb Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de: The only thing missing in LilyPond’s PDF files is the XMP metadata mark of PDF/A-1(b). Would it be much work to implement that? LilyPond seems to write file metadata like the title. The format is PDF-1.4, for example. It’s a different kind of metadata, in XMP format. Of course LilyPond *could* embed that, but I don’t think it would make sense, since LilyPond can’t ensure that the PDF really complies to any standard (PDF/X would be another interesting one). E.g. you could embed any custom PostScript code or EPS pictures that totally break standards compliance. Also, LilyPond defines colors as device dependent, that means, black is only defined as being black, without a color profile or output intent. (Please read up on the basics of color management, if you’d like to know more.) If you need to deliver a standard, you must be able to check on it and maybe enforce it, e.g. using Adobe Acrobat Pro. I just checked a PDF from LilyPond 2.18.2: * The color definition is device dependent. As long as you only use black, that’s no real problem, but violates the PDF/A (and PDF/X) requirements. * XMP metadata is missing, but LilyPond sets an author in the „general“ metadata, that also violates PDF/A. * There’s a tiny error in PDF code, a missing EOL marker. I guess that’s a GhostScript issue that hurts nobody, but the standard. Acrobat can fix that automatically, you must just decide on a suitable color profile. If I save as PDF/A-1b, file size grows from 51 kb to 559 kB (due to the embedding of a color profile). So, to support one of the standards, LilyPond would need to embed XMP metadata and color profiles that most of its users won’t need and that blow up the file size. Additionally, you’d need to decide which color profile (output intent) to use, any default would be wrong for some users, e.g. most office printers would prefer a sRGB profile, but some would make your black a grey due to conversion; for offset printing you probably need an „uncoated“ profile (matte paper), but the standards differ at least between Europe (FOGRA) and the USA (SWOP?). The few people who depend on a special PDF standard should be able to care for that themselves or employ someone who knows. Greetlings, Hraban --- fiëé visuëlle Henning Hraban Ramm http://www.fiee.net http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/ https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer) ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Anyone have experience with PDF/A-1b?
Hi, I want to try to produce PDF/A-1b files from Lilypond to submit to the Australian Music Centre (australianmusiccentre.com.au). It looks like it would be possible to do this by exporting to Postscript and using Ghostscript: http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/9.14/Ps2pdf.htm#PDFA Has anyone done this and have any tips or pitfalls before I start on this journey myself? Vaughan PS Here are the Australian Music Centre guidelines about file formats. I think they just want to be able to open the file in Finale or Sibelius, and save them as PDF with their PDF/A1-b -compliant process. The AMC's order of preference for file formats is as follows: 1. *Sibelius* or *Finale* files. These files are preferred as they can be used to generate the highest-quality archival production masters. *Non-standard fonts*: the AMC has access to a wide library of fonts. For Finale files AMC staff use the 'Data Check' function to identify any missing fonts and we will follow up with you should there be any issues. If you are a Sibelius user and are concerned about non-standard fonts, please use the notes box at the bottom of this page and staff will consult with you to ensure the appearance of your score is as you intend. *Layout concerns*: to ensure there is no discrepancy in the layout of your score when it is processed by the AMC, we firstly require that you use one of the AMC's supported paper sizes: A4, A3 or B4-JIS. Secondly, we recommend that you use Finale's 'Lock systems' or Sibelius's 'Lock format' functions to prevent the programs from reconfiguring the layout when the file is opened on the AMC's computers. 2. *PDF/A-1b* files. If you are unable to provide Finale or Sibelius files, but do have the ability to provide us with PDF/A-1b files, this is the AMC's second preferred submission method. PDF/A-1b is an archival version of the PDF file format designed to ensure consistent reproduction of a file's contents across different computers over time. All score materials processed by the AMC are eventually stored as PDF/A-1b files. Production of PDF/A-1b files is a fairly complex process and any submitted files must be validated by AMC staff as compliant. 3. *PDF* files. As a last resort, we will accept submissions of regular PDF files. This method should be avoided wherever posible as it presents the greatest difficulty in generating high-quality archival production masters. Materials submitted in this way will often have to be physically printed off and scanned - resulting in a loss in quality. Frequently Asked Questions *I don't use Finale or Sibelius - why don't you accept more formats?* Unfortunately the AMC does not have resources to purchase (and keep updated) copies, and train staff in all software packages which are available on the market to produce score materials. Finale and Sibelius are used by the vast majority of our repesented artists and this is why we accept materials in these file formats. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
