Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
Hello James, No, I never got around to trying the white-box method. It looks pretty fiddly, but I also needed to change the shape of the ties, so I first tried to separate the parts (believing this was necessary) and came to a dead-end (see previous e-mails). I am satisfied that it is possible to get the desired result using Eluze's method (I've just got to update to the unstable version). The use of dash-definition appears to be less fiddly than the white box method. I'd still be interested in experimenting with the white-box method, as it may be useful in other situations, but it sounds, from your experience, like it is hard to get a good result. Using \tieDown [sic], didn't produce a satisfactory result in this situation, in my opinion. I never got around to nutting out madMuze/David's method of determining the X-offset of the right endpoint. I'm not really sure how to use his snippet. If you have an example, that would be appreciated. Regards, Bruys On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:35 AM, James Lowe james.l...@datacore.com wrote: The problem is that in this example, there is a collision with the tie, second from the top (d'') and the f# (fis''). Ms. Gould's solution is to divide the tie leaving a gap in the tie, so that it doesn't collide. How does one divide a tie with Lilypond? sorry for the delayed response. Did you try simply to make a White box and then put it over the tie but behind the note? I looked at doing that for a piece recently. it worked but I thought it looked awful. So I used \slurDown and that looked better. It was for some single very high flute part, so didn't use chords or other voices. sorry if this was irrelevant. James ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
hi bruys bruys . wrote: The one disappointing aspect is that (with version 2.13), I get a warning that Lilypond couldn't find the property type-check for 'dash-definition'. And, if I comment this line out, the result is basically unchanged. Actually, if I leave this line in, it messes up the control-points adjustment on the second tie. It would be great if this did work. Does anyone know if this is a bug? did you mean 2.12 ? in fact i was using 2.13.58 and i would recommend to upgrade occasionally since there are many new features in the (nearly stable) development release! (By the way, it seems the snippet you pointed me to last time, could be used to divide the tie in this instance, as there is an accidental involved. But, that would be a bit of a hack, as this wouldn't generally be the case.) i don't think hiding away a part of the tie is satisfying because the tie will always look like coming out of the fis - unless you change the direction, but then it collides with the next lower note. Eluze -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Dividing-ties-and-adjusting-ties-in-an-arpeggiated-chord-tp31299849p31362814.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
Thanks for your persistence, Eluze, You're right, I'm using version 2.12.3. It's good to know that when I upgrade to the new version, I should be able to get it to work. In version 2.12.3, it's not really bad, but the tie clips the bottom of the sharp sign. Remember, I started by wanting to reproduce a figure from a book, which looks just fine with the divided tie. Although, I think you're probably right: if I was going with the divided tie option, I suspect I would have to increase the distance between the first two grace notes, because otherwise there's no much of the tie before it disappears behind the sharp sign. Best wishes, bruys On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:51 PM, -Eluze elu...@gmail.com wrote: hi bruys bruys . wrote: The one disappointing aspect is that (with version 2.13), I get a warning that Lilypond couldn't find the property type-check for 'dash-definition'. And, if I comment this line out, the result is basically unchanged. Actually, if I leave this line in, it messes up the control-points adjustment on the second tie. It would be great if this did work. Does anyone know if this is a bug? did you mean 2.12 ? in fact i was using 2.13.58 and i would recommend to upgrade occasionally since there are many new features in the (nearly stable) development release! (By the way, it seems the snippet you pointed me to last time, could be used to divide the tie in this instance, as there is an accidental involved. But, that would be a bit of a hack, as this wouldn't generally be the case.) i don't think hiding away a part of the tie is satisfying because the tie will always look like coming out of the fis - unless you change the direction, but then it collides with the next lower note. Eluze -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Dividing-ties-and-adjusting-ties-in-an-arpeggiated-chord-tp31299849p31362814.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
The problem is that in this example, there is a collision with the tie, second from the top (d'') and the f# (fis''). Ms. Gould's solution is to divide the tie leaving a gap in the tie, so that it doesn't collide. How does one divide a tie with Lilypond? sorry for the delayed response. Did you try simply to make a White box and then put it over the tie but behind the note? I looked at doing that for a piece recently. it worked but I thought it looked awful. So I used \slurDown and that looked better. It was for some single very high flute part, so didn't use chords or other voices. sorry if this was irrelevant. James ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
bruys . wrote:
Hello Again,
Part 2: If I put each part into a separate voice context, the ties are
in the right direction, but otherwise it's a real mess.
i tried another approach starting from your original code:
since the tie of the d'' goes thru the fis'' it looks a bit funny if you
just hide the part colliding with the note - rather it is more appropriate
to start the tie under the fis'' on the correct pitch level.
my solution:
arpeggiatedchord = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % as notes intervene before the ties end
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
\grace {
\once \override Tie #'control-points = #'((1 . 1) (2 . 1) (5 . 2) (9.5 .
1.2))
\once \override Tie #'dash-definition = #'((0.0 0.3 0 0) (0.3 1.0 1 1))
d''16_~ [
fis''16~
b'16^~
d'16_~
\once \override Tie #'minimum-length = #2.5
gis'16~
]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0
d'' fis'' b' d' gis'4
}
\score {
\arpeggiatedchord
}
http://old.nabble.com/file/p31358219/test.png
of course there is a lot of manual work behind this!
Eluze
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Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
Hello Eluze,
This is quite exciting. You have produced a decent result. Your method
promises the ability to tweak away to get the exact result required
(but see below).
It looks like you have shown that the part of the manual that I quoted
is misleading, it seems that setting control-points will work in this
setting, albeit with a lot of experimentation to find appropriate
parameters. I tried also adjusting one of the other ties with
control-points, and this seemed to work. It's also possible that the
manual is right, as the parameters I need to use don't make much sense
to me, however it is possible to rig up a solution.
The one disappointing aspect is that (with version 2.13), I get a
warning that Lilypond couldn't find the property type-check for
'dash-definition'. And, if I comment this line out, the result is
basically unchanged. Actually, if I leave this line in, it messes up
the control-points adjustment on the second tie. It would be great if
this did work. Does anyone know if this is a bug?
(By the way, it seems the snippet you pointed me to last time, could
be used to divide the tie in this instance, as there is an accidental
involved. But, that would be a bit of a hack, as this wouldn't
generally be the case.)
Regards,
bruys
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:07 PM, -Eluze elu...@gmail.com wrote:
bruys . wrote:
Hello Again,
Part 2: If I put each part into a separate voice context, the ties are
in the right direction, but otherwise it's a real mess.
i tried another approach starting from your original code:
since the tie of the d'' goes thru the fis'' it looks a bit funny if you
just hide the part colliding with the note - rather it is more appropriate
to start the tie under the fis'' on the correct pitch level.
my solution:
arpeggiatedchord = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % as notes intervene before the ties end
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
\grace {
\once \override Tie #'control-points = #'((1 . 1) (2 . 1) (5 . 2) (9.5 .
1.2))
\once \override Tie #'dash-definition = #'((0.0 0.3 0 0) (0.3 1.0 1 1))
d''16_~ [
fis''16~
b'16^~
d'16_~
\once \override Tie #'minimum-length = #2.5
gis'16~
]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0
d'' fis'' b' d' gis'4
}
\score {
\arpeggiatedchord
}
http://old.nabble.com/file/p31358219/test.png
of course there is a lot of manual work behind this!
Eluze
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Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
Hello again,
I'm sorry to have to make further enquiries, but I'm flailing around here.
It seems that I need to divide the arpeggiated chord into separate
parts, so I can apply tweaks to each part separately.
Sorry about the length of the following code. It is for only one
arpeggiated chord, and I haven't been able to apply the tweaks yet.
When I put all the parts in the one voice context, I can get the notes
to line up, hooray. But, Lilypond ignores my explicit request to
direct the tie on the note d (d'') up (/tieUp), even though a major
collision results.
Part 2 to follow!
Thanks,
bruys
\version 2.12.3
partOne = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
\tieUp d''16[~ s16 s16 s16 s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
d''4
}
partTwo = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0)
\grace {
s16[ \tieUp fis''16~ s16 s16 s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0
\stemUp
fis''4
}
partThree = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
s16[ s16 \tieUp b'16~ s16 s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
b'4
}
partFour = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
s16[ s16 s16 \tieDown d'16~ s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
d'4
}
partFive = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
s16[ s16 s16 s16 \tieDown gis'16~]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
gis'4
}
ignore = \override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
revertIgnore = \override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##f
\score {
{ \ignore
\partOne
\partTwo
\partThree
\partFour
\partFive
\revertIgnore
\tieNeutral
}
}
attachment: Arpeggiated Chord Example 3_.png___
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Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
Hello Again,
Part 2: If I put each part into a separate voice context, the ties are
in the right direction, but otherwise it's a real mess.
Thanks,
bruys
partOne = {
\voiceOne
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
\tieUp d''16[~ s16 s16 s16 s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
d''4
}
% voiceTwo not used
partTwo = {
\voiceThree
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0)
\grace {
s16[ \tieUp fis''16~ s16 s16 s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0
\stemUp
fis''4
}
% voiceFour not used
voiceFive = #(context-spec-music (make-voice-props-set 4) 'Voice)
partThree = {
\voiceFive
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
s16[ s16 \tieUp b'16~ s16 s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
b'4
}
voiceSix = #(context-spec-music (make-voice-props-set 5) 'Voice)
% voiceSix not used
voiceSeven = #(context-spec-music (make-voice-props-set 6) 'Voice)
partFour = {
\voiceSeven
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
s16[ s16 s16 \tieDown d'16~ s16]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
d'4
}
voiceEight = #(context-spec-music (make-voice-props-set 7) 'Voice)
% voiceEight not used
voiceNine = #(context-spec-music (make-voice-props-set 8) 'Voice)
partFive = {
\voiceNine
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % for arpeggiated ties
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
s16[ s16 s16 s16 \tieDown gis'16~]
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - don't know why this
% needs to be 6.0 instead of 5.0
\stemUp
gis'4
}
ignore = \override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
revertIgnore = \override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##f
\score {
{
\ignore
\partOne
\\
\partTwo
\\
\partThree
\\
\partFour
\\
\partFive
\revertIgnore
\tieNeutral
}
}
attachment: Arpeggiated Chord Example 2_.png___
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Re: Fwd: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
position and height. Feel better now? Red pill or blue pill? (Did anyone ever try both?) David -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Dividing-ties-and-adjusting-ties-in-an-arpeggiated-chord-tp31299849p31306033.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Fwd: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
mentioned, but
my battered mind finds this easier (does version 2.14 have the snippet built
in?):
If, in your style file, you set all ties to a low layer; for instance:
\override Score.Tie #'layer = #-2
you can then put something like this in your definitions file:
blnkIt = #(define-music-function (parser location left bottom width height)
(number? number? number? number?)
#{
\new Voice { \voiceNine
\once \override Voice.TextScript #'layer = #-1
\once \override Voice.TextScript
#'outside-staff-priority = ##f
\once \override Voice.TextScript #'X-extent = #'(0 . 0)
\once \override Voice.TextScript #'Y-extent = #'(0 . 0)
\once \override Voice.TextScript #'X-offset = #0
\once \override Voice.TextScript #'Y-offset = #0
s1*0-\markup { \with-color #white \filled-box
#(cons $left (+ $left $width)) #(cons $bottom (+
$bottom $height)) #0 }
}
#}
)
Size and position the box to blank out any portion of the tie (or anything
you might assign to the lower layer). $left = 0 is the point in the music
where you place the command; $bottom = 0 is the center line of the staff. I
use voiceNine so it can be positioned independently of any other text at
that point in the music. If you can't see where the box is, change #white to
#red until you get it in place. To blank out around a downward stem, you
might try:
\blnkIt #-0.25 #-2 #0.6 #4 e'4
and adjust the #-2 and #4 for the vertical position and height.
Feel better now? Red pill or blue pill? (Did anyone ever try both?)
David
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Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
bruys . wrote: The problem is that in this example, there is a collision with the tie, second from the top (d'') and the f# (fis''). Ms. Gould's solution is to divide the tie leaving a gap in the tie, so that it doesn't collide. How does one divide a tie with Lilypond? this snippet might be of help: http:// Hiding parts of slurs to avoid collisions with other objects (althou i don't know it it works with all objects) Eluze -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Dividing-ties-and-adjusting-ties-in-an-arpeggiated-chord-tp31299849p31301359.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Fwd: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
-- Forwarded message -- From: bruys . noten...@gmail.com Date: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord To: -Eluze elu...@gmail.com Dear Eluze, Thank you very much for that, it looks like just what I need. The link didn't work, but knowing the title I was able to Google it. I'll need to play around with it a bit - it's going to take a while to understand what's going on. It will be interesting to see if it works in this example where there is more than one tie at a time. That potentially answers half my question. I wonder if anyone knows how to alter the curve of the ties in this situation. Regards, bruys On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 5:00 PM, -Eluze elu...@gmail.com wrote: bruys . wrote: The problem is that in this example, there is a collision with the tie, second from the top (d'') and the f# (fis''). Ms. Gould's solution is to divide the tie leaving a gap in the tie, so that it doesn't collide. How does one divide a tie with Lilypond? this snippet might be of help: http:// Hiding parts of slurs to avoid collisions with other objects (althou i don't know it it works with all objects) Eluze -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Dividing-ties-and-adjusting-ties-in-an-arpeggiated-chord-tp31299849p31301359.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Dividing ties and adjusting ties in an arpeggiated chord
I'd like some help on how to adjust ties. The following example comes
from Behind Bars: The Definitive Guide to Music Notation by Elaine
Gould, p.133; or it would do, if I could get it to work.
The problem is that in this example, there is a collision with the
tie, second from the top (d'') and the f# (fis''). Ms. Gould's
solution is to divide the tie leaving a gap in the tie, so that it
doesn't collide. How does one divide a tie with Lilypond?
(By the way, I have been able encode a suggested alternative of using
laissez vibrer ties, although I don't think it looks as good.)
I would also like to know how to adjust the curve of ties in such a
situation. In the Lilypond manual, 5.5.4, Modifying Shapes, it states
that it is not possible to modify the shapes of ties or slurs by
changing the control-points property if there are more than one at the
same musical moment. The same tie intersects the top staff line. One
would like to make the curve shallower to avoid this. One would also
like a shallower curve for the uppermost tie, so the beam on the grace
notes didn't have to be raised as much.
(The tie on the g# also seems to be too short, but I imagine this
could be changed by introducing some padding between the grace notes
and the chord.)
\version 2.12.3
arpeggiatedchord = {
\set tieWaitForNote = ##t % as notes intervene before the ties end
\once \override Beam #'positions = #'(5.0 . 5.0) % raise beam to avoid
% collision with top tie
\grace {
d''16[~ fis''16~ b'16^~ d'16_~ gis'16]~
}
\once \override Stem #'length = #'6.0 % lengthen stem to match height of
% grace notes - this seems to require
% 6.0 instead of 5.0, which isn't clear
% in the manual
d'' fis'' b' d' gis'4
}
\score {
\arpeggiatedchord
}
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