Re:bending and line breaks [WAS:Re: Guitar bend error]

[Stephen MacNeil]

HI Federico

I looked through some scores and I would say about 90% had them. The ones
that didn't, it was do to the fact that such an occurrence in a score/song
is rare and even more so that it may be at that particular part of the
score. So the ones I didn't find it in I assume it's because it wasn't
needed.

here are some examples

Note:
There are different ways to indicate bends yet all the various methods will
do a bend on a line break. So I am not only showing one method here..


anyway

http://mglessons.com/bend/Guns_N_Roses_-_Use_Your_Illusion_II_pages_16-16.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Iron_Maiden_-_Fear_Of_The_Dark_pages_9-9.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Jimi_Hendrix_-_Are_you_experienced_pages_15-15.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Jimi_Hendrix_-_Axis_Bold_As_Love_pages_104-104.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Led_Zeppelin_-_Led_Zeppelin_I_pages_38-38.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Metallica_-_Black_Album_pages_39-39.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Police_The_Best_Of_pages_22-22.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Smashing_Pumpkins_-_Mellon_collie_and_the_infinite_sadness_pages_26-26.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/The_Beatles_-_Complete_Scores_pages_171-171.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Van_Halen_-_1984_pages_52-52.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Van_Halen_-_1984_pages_61-61.pdf
http://mglessons.com/bend/Van_Halen_-_Van_Halen_II_pages_4-4.pdf

HTH
Stephen
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Re:bending and line breaks [WAS:Re: Guitar bend error]

[Federico Bruni]

Il giorno mar 21 giu 2016 alle 4:12, Stephen MacNeil 
 ha scritto:

Hi Federico

After teaching guitar for 20 years I will say it does happen, 
although very rarely as it makes it hard to read. I avoid it at all 
costs in my own typesetting. I grabbed a couple books from my studio 
library and the second book I looked at had it on pg 22 so, ya it 
happens.


Hi Stephen

Can you take a picture of that page and upload it somewhere?
This may be the proper place:
https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/1196/

In David Stocker's analysis I cannot find anything related to bends and 
line breaks.


Thanks
Federico


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Re:bending and line breaks [WAS:Re: Guitar bend error]

[Stephen MacNeil]

Hi Federico

After teaching guitar for 20 years I will say it does happen, although very
rarely as it makes it hard to read. I avoid it at all costs in my own
typesetting. I grabbed a couple books from my studio library and the second
book I looked at had it on pg 22 so, ya it happens.

HTH
Stephen
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bending and line breaks [WAS:Re: Guitar bend error]

[Federico Bruni]

Il giorno lun 20 giu 2016 alle 8:58, Federico Bruni 
 ha scritto:

But it's more a
TODO:
  - How should this feature behave at line-break?
  - Until this is cleared disable line-breaks sufficiently.


I've browsed my tablature books but could not find a bend over a line 
break.
I've searched in the Eric Clapton "Unplugged" book (which was used as 
a reference when bend.ly was discussed) and could not find it. I 
would guess that other software try to avoid such a situation? (even 
though I think that this situation should be managed and not avoided)


The closest example I found (in another book) is actually a 
bend-tie-release (see file attached). So not a good example.


Blocked because too big. I've uploaded it here:
https://postimg.org/image/adoxhwk75/



Anyway, I would expect it to behave similarly to ties:

In the last measure of the system, where the bending starts, we 
should see the curved line ending with an arrow but without the steps 
(1/4, 1/2, 1, etc.) of the bending.
In the next measure after line break we should see the curved line 
continuing until it reaches the pitch; the bending "step" should be 
printed there.


I don't know how other software behaves.
I think I'll try MuseScore as soon as I can. It seems like it 
supports bending:

https://musescore.org/en/handbook/bends


I'm trying MuseScore... but I'm not motivated to try to understand a 
software I'll never use.
After a few tests I can only say that it's not a good reference at the 
moment.



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Re: Guitar bend error

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-25 0:18 GMT+02:00 Federico Bruni :
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 11:38:31PM +0200, Thomas Morley wrote:
>> 2016-04-24 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stephen MacNeil :
>> >
>> > It was written by Marc Hohl I just adapted it to have no tab since I don't
>> > use tab
>> >
>> >
>> > see
>> >
>> > https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/tree/master/notation-snippets/guitar-string-bending
>> >
>
> For the records, this is the new home:
> https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/tree/master/ly/tablature
>
> (the file is the same as in the old one, but future updates will be
> pushed to the new location.. unless Urs wants to keep the old
> in sync)
>
>> > Line breaks over bending notes are not supported and they are currently
>> > disabled, because otherwise the file would not compile as soon as page
>> > formatting decisions create such a situation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Manual inserting \noBreak or \break will probably not enough, without
>> \layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }
>>
>> Opposed to what is claimed in the quote from openlilylib above,
>> disabling line-breaks do not work sufficiently.
>
> I can add this to the README on github.

Please do.

But it's more a
TODO:
  - How should this feature behave at line-break?
  - Until this is cleared disable line-breaks sufficiently.

Thanks,
  Harm

>
>> See the out put from:
>> \include "definitions.ily"
>>
>> \displayLilyMusic
>> \relative c'' {
>> \bendOn
>> c1( d)
>> c1( d)
>> }
>>
>> It returns in terminal:
>>
>> { { \override Voice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-pointed-slur
>> \override TabVoice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-bend-arrow
>> c''1( \noBreak } d''1) c''1( d''1) }
>>
>> The overrides last until the end, but the \noBreak occurs only once!!
>>
>
> True. Better to avoid these (likely) errors and use manual breaks.
> Minimal example reworked in the new openlilylib style:
>
> \version "2.19.40"
> \include "openlilylib"
>
> \useLibrary Tablature
> % Workaround for issue #136 at
> % https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/issues/136
> #(display "")
> \useModule tablature.bending
>
> % Hack needed until issue #136 is fixed:
> % https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/issues/136
> #(ly:message "loaded")
>
>
> music = \relative c'' {
>   \displayLilyMusic
>   \bendOn
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
> }
>
> \new StaffGroup <<
>   \new Voice \music
>   \new TabVoice \music
>>>
> % comment this line and it won't compile
> \layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }

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Re: Guitar bend error

[Stephen MacNeil]

>I’ll see if I can get the openlilylib files to work first.

they should be the same file, unless the openlilylib has been updated. I
never modified the file I think

>how come the graceBend slurs are always facing down in the output when it
says “up” in the definitions file?

do you mean pointing down? probalbly to show it goes from a higher note to
a lower. Not sure I don't use tab so i could be wrong. are you referring to

\once \override Voice.Slur.direction = #UP

that puts the slur/bend mark above

>I need bend slurs without the TabStaff. Thanks for that, Stephen!

no problem, since i don't use tab i figured others could use it as well.
glad it's useful.

HTH
Stephen
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Re: Guitar bend error

[Devon LePage]

Thanks to everyone who responded! I appreciate it.

I think I might have some followup questions - like, how come the graceBend
slurs are always facing down in the output when it says “up” in the
definitions file? - but I’ll see if I can get the openlilylib files to work
first.

Although I want this score to have a TabStaff, the main reason I was using
Stephen MacNeil’s code library is because in general I need bend slurs
without the TabStaff. Thanks for that, Stephen!

-Devon.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 3:18 PM Federico Bruni  wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 11:38:31PM +0200, Thomas Morley wrote:
> > 2016-04-24 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stephen MacNeil :
> > >
> > > It was written by Marc Hohl I just adapted it to have no tab since I
> don't
> > > use tab
> > >
> > >
> > > see
> > >
> > >
> https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/tree/master/notation-snippets/guitar-string-bending
> > >
>
> For the records, this is the new home:
> https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/tree/master/ly/tablature
>
> (the file is the same as in the old one, but future updates will be
> pushed to the new location.. unless Urs wants to keep the old
> in sync)
>
> > > Line breaks over bending notes are not supported and they are currently
> > > disabled, because otherwise the file would not compile as soon as page
> > > formatting decisions create such a situation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Manual inserting \noBreak or \break will probably not enough, without
> > \layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }
> >
> > Opposed to what is claimed in the quote from openlilylib above,
> > disabling line-breaks do not work sufficiently.
>
> I can add this to the README on github.
>
> > See the out put from:
> > \include "definitions.ily"
> >
> > \displayLilyMusic
> > \relative c'' {
> > \bendOn
> > c1( d)
> > c1( d)
> > }
> >
> > It returns in terminal:
> >
> > { { \override Voice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-pointed-slur
> > \override TabVoice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-bend-arrow
> > c''1( \noBreak } d''1) c''1( d''1) }
> >
> > The overrides last until the end, but the \noBreak occurs only once!!
> >
>
> True. Better to avoid these (likely) errors and use manual breaks.
> Minimal example reworked in the new openlilylib style:
>
> \version "2.19.40"
> \include "openlilylib"
>
> \useLibrary Tablature
> % Workaround for issue #136 at
> % https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/issues/136
> #(display "")
> \useModule tablature.bending
>
> % Hack needed until issue #136 is fixed:
> % https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/issues/136
> #(ly:message "loaded")
>
>
> music = \relative c'' {
>   \displayLilyMusic
>   \bendOn
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
>   c1( d)
> }
>
> \new StaffGroup <<
>   \new Voice \music
>   \new TabVoice \music
> >>
> % comment this line and it won't compile
> \layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }
>
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Re: Guitar bend error

[Federico Bruni]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 11:38:31PM +0200, Thomas Morley wrote:
> 2016-04-24 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stephen MacNeil :
> >
> > It was written by Marc Hohl I just adapted it to have no tab since I don't
> > use tab
> >
> >
> > see
> >
> > https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/tree/master/notation-snippets/guitar-string-bending
> >

For the records, this is the new home:
https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/tree/master/ly/tablature

(the file is the same as in the old one, but future updates will be
pushed to the new location.. unless Urs wants to keep the old
in sync)

> > Line breaks over bending notes are not supported and they are currently
> > disabled, because otherwise the file would not compile as soon as page
> > formatting decisions create such a situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Manual inserting \noBreak or \break will probably not enough, without
> \layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }
> 
> Opposed to what is claimed in the quote from openlilylib above,
> disabling line-breaks do not work sufficiently.

I can add this to the README on github.

> See the out put from:
> \include "definitions.ily"
> 
> \displayLilyMusic
> \relative c'' {
> \bendOn
> c1( d)
> c1( d)
> }
> 
> It returns in terminal:
> 
> { { \override Voice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-pointed-slur
> \override TabVoice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-bend-arrow
> c''1( \noBreak } d''1) c''1( d''1) }
> 
> The overrides last until the end, but the \noBreak occurs only once!!
> 

True. Better to avoid these (likely) errors and use manual breaks.
Minimal example reworked in the new openlilylib style:

\version "2.19.40"
\include "openlilylib"

\useLibrary Tablature
% Workaround for issue #136 at
% https://github.com/openlilylib/snippets/issues/136
#(display "")
\useModule tablature.bending

% Hack needed until issue #136 is fixed:
% https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/issues/136
#(ly:message "loaded")


music = \relative c'' {
  \displayLilyMusic
  \bendOn
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
  c1( d)
}

\new StaffGroup <<
  \new Voice \music
  \new TabVoice \music
>>
% comment this line and it won't compile
\layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }

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Re: Guitar bend error

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-24 17:13 GMT+02:00 Stephen MacNeil :
> Add a line break before bar 25
>
> r4 r8 e' g2 | \break  % gradual bend on g2 towards a |
>
> % BAR 25
>
> \bendGrace g8( a2) g2( | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |
>
> \bendGrace g8 a4 g8) e g2( | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |
>
>
>
> HTH
> Stephen
>
> It was written by Marc Hohl I just adapted it to have no tab since I don't
> use tab
>
>
> see
>
> https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/tree/master/notation-snippets/guitar-string-bending
>
> Line breaks over bending notes are not supported and they are currently
> disabled, because otherwise the file would not compile as soon as page
> formatting decisions create such a situation.



Manual inserting \noBreak or \break will probably not enough, without
\layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }

Opposed to what is claimed in the quote from openlilylib above,
disabling line-breaks do not work sufficiently.
See the out put from:
\include "definitions.ily"

\displayLilyMusic
\relative c'' {
\bendOn
c1( d)
c1( d)
}

It returns in terminal:

{ { \override Voice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-pointed-slur
\override TabVoice.Slur.stencil = #slur::draw-bend-arrow
c''1( \noBreak } d''1) c''1( d''1) }

The overrides last until the end, but the \noBreak occurs only once!!

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Guitar bend error

[Anthonys Lists]

On 24/04/2016 16:13, Stephen MacNeil wrote:

Add a line break before bar 25

r4 r8 e' g2 | \break  % gradual bend on g2 towards a |

% BAR 25

\bendGrace g8( a2) g2( | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |

\bendGrace g8 a4 g8) e g2( | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |



Or, if it's a longer piece and you want lily to choose the line breaks 
to look nice, you could put a \noBreak after bars 25 and 25?


r4 r8 e' g2 | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |

% BAR 25

\bendGrace g8( a2) g2( \noBreak | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |

\bendGrace g8 a4 g8) e g2( \noBreak | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |


(not tested, but that was my immediate reaction on reading this thread - 
disallow breaks where they're going to cause a problem)


Cheers,
Wol

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Re: Guitar bend error

[Stephen MacNeil]

>The code Stephan hosts is a nightmare, because all indentation has
>gone.

This is true :) but I actually read it better... not sure why. and not
being able to type fast it just works for me

cheers

Stephen
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Guitar bend error

[Stephen MacNeil]

Add a line break before bar 25

r4 r8 e' g2 | \break  % gradual bend on g2 towards a |

% BAR 25

\bendGrace g8( a2) g2( | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |

\bendGrace g8 a4 g8) e g2( | % gradual bend on g2 towards a |



HTH
Stephen

It was written by Marc Hohl I just adapted it to have no tab since I don't
use tab


see

https://github.com/openlilylib/openlilylib/tree/master/notation-snippets/guitar-string-bending

Line breaks over bending notes are not supported and they are currently
disabled, because otherwise the file would not compile as soon as page
formatting decisions create such a situation.
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Re: Guitar bend error

[Thomas Morley]

2016-04-24 7:50 GMT+02:00 Devon LePage :
> I’m transcribing a rock guitar solo, and to engrave the many string bends
> I’m using Stephen MacNeil’s LilyPond code library, available here:
>
> http://mglessons.com/lilypond/

The code Stephan hosts is a nightmare, because all indentation has
gone. For further testing I used my own version of the bend-files
which should be pretty much the same as hosted at openlilylib.

> If I use the “definitions_No-Tab.ly” file, LilyPond engraves the file with
> no hiccups. However, if I use the “definitions.ily” for notation and TAB, I
> get the following error:
>
> Drawing
> systems.../Users/devon/Downloads/lilypond-archive/guitar_functions/definitions.ily:180:14:
> In procedure ly:event-property in expression (ly:event-property (event-cause
> right-bound) (quote pitch)):
>
> /Users/devon/Downloads/lilypond-archive/guitar_functions/definitions.ily:180:14:
> Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting Prob): #f
>
> Exited with return code 1.
>
>
> Learning Scheme is still on my to-do list, so I don’t quite understand
> what’s going on here. Frustratingly, I can’t seem to localize the error -
> I’ve tried compiling the file with different sections commented out, but the
> error isn’t consistently generated. A few times it happened at bar 13, but
> then it happened at bar 31, and then a few more times at places in between.
> It reliably compiles for the first 12 bars, but that’s it.
>
>
> I’ve put the LilyPond code in a Gist here:
>
>
> https://gist.github.com/devonlepage/624c66513538ad6b42de0f665857ade7
>
>
> This is the first third of the transcription. I’m hoping it will be enough
> that someone might be able to diagnose the problem. I’ve taken out all
> extraneous formatting code, which didn’t seem to effect the error.
>
>
> I’m using Frescobaldi 2.19 with LilyPond 2.19.40. It also happens in 2.18. I
> would prefer to use 2.19 so that I can use an alternative music font in the
> final document.
>
>
> I hope someone can help me figure out what’s going on.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> -Devon LePage.

The problem is line-breaking. The bending-code doesn't support it.
Honestly, I've no clue how it should look at line-break.
To proof whether it's a line-break-issue include:

\paper { page-breaking = #ly:one-line-breaking }

You'll see the error vanished.

A minimal breaking example:

\include "definitions.ily"
\new TabVoice \relative c'' { \bendOn c1( \break d) }


Though, what to do?
Currently breaks are disabled at the end of \bendOn, which sometimes
is not enough.
It is likely possible to disallow line-breaks at all while \bendOn
works. But is surely not what you want, while applying \bendOn to a
larger piece of music.

Best I can think of is to disallow breaks at all, inserting them all manually.
For that you could use:

\layout { \autoLineBreaksOff }


HTH,
  Harm

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Guitar bend error

[Devon LePage]

I’m transcribing a rock guitar solo, and to engrave the many string bends
I’m using Stephen MacNeil’s LilyPond code library, available here:

http://mglessons.com/lilypond/

If I use the “definitions_No-Tab.ly” file, LilyPond engraves the file with
no hiccups. However, if I use the “definitions.ily” for notation and TAB, I
get the following error:

Drawing systems...
/Users/devon/Downloads/lilypond-archive/guitar_functions/definitions.ily:180:14
<0>: In procedure ly:event-property in expression (ly:event-property
(event-cause right-bound) (quote pitch)):

/Users/devon/Downloads/lilypond-archive/guitar_functions/definitions.ily:180:14
<1>: Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting Prob): #f

Exited with return code 1.


Learning Scheme is still on my to-do list, so I don’t quite understand
what’s going on here. Frustratingly, I can’t seem to localize the error -
I’ve tried compiling the file with different sections commented out, but
the error isn’t consistently generated. A few times it happened at bar 13,
but then it happened at bar 31, and then a few more times at places in
between. It reliably compiles for the first 12 bars, but that’s it.


I’ve put the LilyPond code in a Gist here:


https://gist.github.com/devonlepage/624c66513538ad6b42de0f665857ade7


This is the first third of the transcription. I’m hoping it will be enough
that someone might be able to diagnose the problem. I’ve taken out all
extraneous formatting code, which didn’t seem to effect the error.


I’m using Frescobaldi 2.19 with LilyPond 2.19.40. It also happens in 2.18.
I would prefer to use 2.19 so that I can use an alternative music font in
the final document.


I hope someone can help me figure out what’s going on.


Thanks!


-Devon LePage.
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