Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Sumbler]

On Thu, 2018-05-17 at 10:57 +0100, David Sumbler wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-05-16 at 16:55 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> > 
> > David Sumbler  writes:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer
> > > etc. at
> > > the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.
> > > 
> > > A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout and
> > > font-
> > > sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point
> > > staves
> > > and
> > > a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the
> > > layout
> > > twice?
> > > 
> > > Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal spacing
> > > is
> > > still affected by the global staff size.
> > Can you show how you are using \abs-fontsize ?
> %%
> \version "2.19.81"
> 
> #(set-global-staff-size 20)
> \book {
>   \bookOutputName "test1"
>   \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
>   { c''1 }
> }
> 
> #(set-global-staff-size 16)
> \book {
>   \bookOutputName "test2"
>   \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
>   { c''1 }
> }
> %%
> 
> In "test2" above the title letters are the correct size, but are
> horizontally squashed together by a factor of 16/20.
> 
> David

Thank you all for the extensive discussion which followed my original
request (above).  It seems to have been established that LilyPond re-
uses previously calculated data if \abs-fontsize is called a second
time with the same font-size, even if the global staff-size has changed
in the mean time.  Unfortunately LilyPond doesn't recalculate some
items which clearly need to be recalculated.  The answer would seem to
be to make sure that \abs-fontsize either always recalculates, or at
least checks to see whether the global staff-size has changed.

It is beyond my capabilities to know how this can be done, but I hope
that in some future Lilypond version this bug will be dealt with.

Meanwhile I tweaked Torsten's version of \abs-fontsize (which made what
later was shown to be an arbitrary adjustment to the size parameter) so
that the resulting text is very slightly larger the larger the staff
size is.  That way, I thought, the difference in size is likely to be
less noticeable - although that consideration is probably irrelevant
because the adjustment is so tiny in any case.

I ended up with this:


#(define-markup-command (abs-fontsize-DJS layout props size arg)
  (number? markup?)
  #:properties ((word-space 0.6) (baseline-skip 3))
  #:category font
  (let* ((ref-size (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'text-font-size 12))
 (text-props (list (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'text-font-defaults)))
 (magnification (+ (/ size ref-size) (/ global-staff-size 1
   (interpret-markup
layout
(cons
 `((baseline-skip . ,(* magnification baseline-skip))
   (word-space . ,(* magnification word-space))
   (font-size . ,(magnification->font-size magnification)))
 props)
arg)))


This seems to work well, so far as my usage goes so far.  The only
slight disadvantage of it is that I have to set an additional global
variable when I set the staff size, thus


global-staff-size = 16
#(set-global-staff-size global-staff-size)


This is because I cannot see a way of using the value of the current
staff size otherwise.  \set-global-staff-size itself does not seem to
store the value.

Obviously, though, LilyPond stores various other variables that depend
on the staff-size value, so in theory I ought to be able to use one of
those instead.  Can anyone suggest how I might do that?

David

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Kastrup]

Torsten Hämmerle  writes:

> dak wrote
>> David Kastrup 
>
>> dak@
>
>>  writes:
>> 
>> I think it's more likely that LilyPond messes up when reusing fonts with
>> a particular size under different circumstances and your "correction"
>> just keeps it from reusing a font, instead calculating a fresh one.
>
> By Belenos, right you are!
>
> The exact value of the additional homoeopathic "correctional" term doesn't
> even matter.
> 0.001 is too small, but changing it to 0.002 will suddenly change the
> spacing from "catastrophic" to "correct".
> Making it too big, however, will result in a noticeable change in glyph size
> (and spacing).
>
> Be that as it may, obviously we need to re-trigger /something/... 

I read in lily/modified-font-metric.cc the following:

Stencil
Modified_font_metric::text_stencil (Output_def *state,
const string ,
bool feta,
const string _str) const
{
  Box b;
  if (Pango_font *pf = dynamic_cast (orig_))
{
  Stencil stc = pf->text_stencil (state, text, feta, features_str);

  Box b = stc.extent_box ();

  b.scale (magnification_);
  Stencil scaled (b, stc.expr ());
  return scaled;
}

  return Font_metric::text_stencil (state, text, feta, features_str);
}

This only adjusts stencil dimensions for magnification_ without
adjusting the stencil.  For a Pango font, that is.

For a non-Pango font, it doesn't adjust anything.

I have really no clue about how font inclusion works but this appears
extraordinarily fishy.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[Torsten Hämmerle]

dak wrote
> David Kastrup 

> dak@

>  writes:
> 
> I think it's more likely that LilyPond messes up when reusing fonts with
> a particular size under different circumstances and your "correction"
> just keeps it from reusing a font, instead calculating a fresh one.

By Belenos, right you are!

The exact value of the additional homoeopathic "correctional" term doesn't
even matter.
0.001 is too small, but changing it to 0.002 will suddenly change the
spacing from "catastrophic" to "correct".
Making it too big, however, will result in a noticeable change in glyph size
(and spacing).

Be that as it may, obviously we need to re-trigger /something/... 

Thanks,
Torsten




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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Kastrup]

David Kastrup  writes:

> Torsten Hämmerle  writes:
>
>> Thomas Morley-2 wrote
>>> Hmm, there's still some horizontal difference.
>>
>> Hi Harm,
>>
>> The idea of adding 'pt was brilliant, because it lead me into the right
>> direction:
>>
>> *The exact reason...*
>> ... is the co-operation between the (outside) Pango world and the (inside)
>> TeX-like world:
>> An American (Pango) point is 1/72 inch, a TeX point used internally is
>> 1/72.27 inch - that's all!
>> This tiny deviation leads to an enormous mismatch between glyph and font
>> metrics scaling.
>
> Uh, that's 0.4% or so.  How does an "enormous mismatch" come about then?

I think it's more likely that LilyPond messes up when reusing fonts with
a particular size under different circumstances and your "correction"
just keeps it from reusing a font, instead calculating a fresh one.

-- 
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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Kastrup]

Torsten Hämmerle  writes:

> Thomas Morley-2 wrote
>> Hmm, there's still some horizontal difference.
>
> Hi Harm,
>
> The idea of adding 'pt was brilliant, because it lead me into the right
> direction:
>
> *The exact reason...*
> ... is the co-operation between the (outside) Pango world and the (inside)
> TeX-like world:
> An American (Pango) point is 1/72 inch, a TeX point used internally is
> 1/72.27 inch - that's all!
> This tiny deviation leads to an enormous mismatch between glyph and font
> metrics scaling.

Uh, that's 0.4% or so.  How does an "enormous mismatch" come about then?

-- 
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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Thomas Morley-2 wrote
> Hmm, there's still some horizontal difference.

Hi Harm,

The idea of adding 'pt was brilliant, because it lead me into the right
direction:

*The exact reason...*
... is the co-operation between the (outside) Pango world and the (inside)
TeX-like world:
An American (Pango) point is 1/72 inch, a TeX point used internally is
1/72.27 inch - that's all!
This tiny deviation leads to an enormous mismatch between glyph and font
metrics scaling.

This can be corrected directly in the calculation of magnification by adding
a correctional value to ref-size:

 (magnification (/ size (+ ref-size 0.04215

11 * 72.27/72 - 11 = 0.04215

Using this effective magnification (also for baseline-skip and word-space),
the resulting texts will retain exactly the same glyph height and the same
spacing:

 

I've also added some TextScript \markup including skylines (can't be seen in
the above illustration), because this didn't work correctly either with the
original \abs-fontsize command.

%%

\version "2.19.81"

#(ly:set-option 'debug-skylines #t)

#(define-markup-command (abs-fontsize-torsten layout props size arg)
  (number? markup?)
  #:properties ((word-space 0.6) (baseline-skip 3))
  #:category font
  "Use @var{size} as the absolute font size (in points) to display
@var{arg}.
Adjusts @code{baseline-skip} and @code{word-space} accordingly.

@lilypond[verbatim,quote]
\\markup {
  default text font size
  \\hspace #2
  \\abs-fontsize #16 { text font size 16 }
  \\hspace #2
  \\abs-fontsize #12 { text font size 12 }
}
@end lilypond"
  (let* ((ref-size (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'text-font-size 11))
 (text-props (list (ly:output-def-lookup layout
'text-font-defaults)))
 (magnification (/ size (+ ref-size 0.04215
(interpret-markup
 layout
 (cons
  `((baseline-skip . ,(* magnification baseline-skip))
(word-space . ,(* magnification word-space))
(font-size . ,(magnification->font-size magnification)))
  props)
 arg)))

\header {
  title =
\markup
  \override #'(box-padding . 0)
  \box \concat {
\abs-fontsize-torsten #11 "X let’s see how long X"
\with-color #red \abs-fontsize #11 "XX"
  }
}

#(set-global-staff-size 18)
 \book { { b'1^\markup \abs-fontsize-torsten #20 "Test" } }

#(set-global-staff-size 26)
 \book { { b'1^\markup \abs-fontsize-torsten #20 "Test" } }

#(set-global-staff-size 10)
 \book { { b'1^\markup \abs-fontsize-torsten #20 "Test" } }

%


All the best,
Torsten



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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[Thomas Morley]

2018-05-19 16:02 GMT+02:00 Thomas Morley :
> 2018-05-16 16:26 GMT+02:00 David Sumbler :
>> At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer etc. at
>> the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.
>>
>> A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout and font-
>> sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point staves and
>> a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the layout
>> twice?
>>
>> Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal spacing is
>> still affected by the global staff size.
>>
>> David
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> I tried this and that and now come up with below.
>
> Seems the results are consistent, I recommend further testings, though.
> I'm not sure why it seems to work now, but I'm not a font-expert.
> The text is now a (very) little taller, but I'd say it's a good trade-off


Hmm, there's still some horizontal difference.
I'll return to it later, have to leave now.

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[Thomas Morley]

2018-05-16 16:26 GMT+02:00 David Sumbler :
> At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer etc. at
> the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.
>
> A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout and font-
> sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point staves and
> a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the layout
> twice?
>
> Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal spacing is
> still affected by the global staff size.
>
> David


Hi David,

I tried this and that and now come up with below.

Seems the results are consistent, I recommend further testings, though.
I'm not sure why it seems to work now, but I'm not a font-expert.
The text is now a (very) little taller, but I'd say it's a good trade-off
.
Looking at the output of the examples one can definetly state
abs-fontsize is buggy like hell.


#(define-markup-command (abs-fontsize-harm layout props size arg)
  (number? markup?)
  #:properties ((word-space 0.6) (baseline-skip 3))
  #:category font
  "Use @var{size} as the absolute font size (in points) to display @var{arg}.
Adjusts @code{baseline-skip} and @code{word-space} accordingly.

@lilypond[verbatim,quote]
\\markup {
  default text font size
  \\hspace #2
  \\abs-fontsize #16 { text font size 16 }
  \\hspace #2
  \\abs-fontsize #12 { text font size 12 }
}
@end lilypond"
  (let* ((ref-size (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'text-font-size 12))
 (text-props (list (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'text-font-defaults)))
 (magnification (/ size ref-size)))

(interpret-markup
 layout
 (cons
  `((baseline-skip . ,(* magnification baseline-skip))
(word-space . ,(* magnification word-space))
(font-size
  .
  ,(+ (magnification->font-size magnification)
  (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'pt
  props)
 arg)))


\header {
  title =
\markup
  \override #'(box-padding . 0)
  \box
  \line \box {
\abs-fontsize-harm #10 "Absolute Font Size"
\abs-fontsize #10 "Absolute Font Size"
  }
}

#(set-global-staff-size 26)
 \book { { b'1 } }

#(set-global-staff-size 20)
 \book { { b'1 } }

#(set-global-staff-size 10)
 \book { { b'1 } }


Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Sumbler]

On Fri, 2018-05-18 at 13:37 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> David Sumbler  writes:
> 
> > 
> > %%
> > \version "2.19.81"
> > 
> > #(set-global-staff-size 20)
> > \book {
> >   \bookOutputName "test1"
> >   \header { title = \markup \fontsize #10 "fontsize 10" }
> >   { c''1 }
> > }
> > 
> > #(set-global-staff-size 10)
> > \book {
> >   \bookOutputName "test2"
> >   \header { title = \markup \fontsize #16 "fontsize 16" }
> >   { c''1 }
> > }
> > %%
> > 
> > Here the text in the second output file is correctly sized, but
> > with
> > the horizontal spacing only half what it should be.  It is similar
> > to
> > the problem found with \abs-fontsize.
> > 
> > However, in this case the problem is unlikely to be an issue in
> > practice, because the only circumstances I have found in which it
> > occurs are when (a) the second staff size is exactly half (or
> > double)
> > the first staff size, AND (b) the second fontsize is smaller (or
> > greater) than the first by exactly 6.
> > 
> > Weird, eh?
> No.  Fontsize is defined in terms of 6th roots of 2.  So basically
> you
> are producing a font with quite exactly the same size.  LilyPond is
> likely reusing some aspect of it but then botches the spacing.

Yes, I assumed that the 6th root of 2 matter was behind the anomaly.
 But it's still a bug.

David


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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Kastrup]

David Sumbler  writes:

> %%
> \version "2.19.81"
>
> #(set-global-staff-size 20)
> \book {
>   \bookOutputName "test1"
>   \header { title = \markup \fontsize #10 "fontsize 10" }
>   { c''1 }
> }
>
> #(set-global-staff-size 10)
> \book {
>   \bookOutputName "test2"
>   \header { title = \markup \fontsize #16 "fontsize 16" }
>   { c''1 }
> }
> %%
>
> Here the text in the second output file is correctly sized, but with
> the horizontal spacing only half what it should be.  It is similar to
> the problem found with \abs-fontsize.
>
> However, in this case the problem is unlikely to be an issue in
> practice, because the only circumstances I have found in which it
> occurs are when (a) the second staff size is exactly half (or double)
> the first staff size, AND (b) the second fontsize is smaller (or
> greater) than the first by exactly 6.
>
> Weird, eh?

No.  Fontsize is defined in terms of 6th roots of 2.  So basically you
are producing a font with quite exactly the same size.  LilyPond is
likely reusing some aspect of it but then botches the spacing.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Sumbler]

On Thu, 2018-05-17 at 12:30 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> David Sumbler  writes:
> 
> > 
> > On Wed, 2018-05-16 at 16:55 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> > > 
> > > David Sumbler  writes:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer
> > > > etc. at
> > > > the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.
> > > > 
> > > > A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout
> > > > and
> > > > font-
> > > > sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point
> > > > staves
> > > > and
> > > > a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the
> > > > layout
> > > > twice?
> > > > 
> > > > Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal
> > > > spacing
> > > > is
> > > > still affected by the global staff size.
> > > Can you show how you are using \abs-fontsize ?
> > %%
> > \version "2.19.81"
> > 
> > #(set-global-staff-size 20)
> > \book {
> >   \bookOutputName "test1"
> >   \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
> >   { c''1 }
> > }
> > 
> > #(set-global-staff-size 16)
> > \book {
> >   \bookOutputName "test2"
> >   \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
> >   { c''1 }
> > }
> > K%%
> > 
> > In "test2" above the title letters are the correct size, but are
> > horizontally squashed together by a factor of 16/20.
> > 
> > David
> Ok, this is definitely off-color.  I suspected you writing
> 
> \abs-fontsize #20 { word word word } instead of, say,
> \abs-fontsize #20 \line { word word word } or
> \abs-fontsize #20 { "word word word" }
> 
> That would resize the individual words but leave alone the
> interword-space.  But here actually the letter space is ruined.  That
> definitely looks like \abs-fontsize is not doing what it should here.

Further to the above: in starting to try to create a work-around for my
difficulty with \abs-fontsize, I discovered an anomaly in the operation
of \fontsize.  This is shown in the following:

%%
\version "2.19.81"

#(set-global-staff-size 20)
\book {
  \bookOutputName "test1"
  \header { title = \markup \fontsize #10 "fontsize 10" }
  { c''1 }
}

#(set-global-staff-size 10)
\book {
  \bookOutputName "test2"
  \header { title = \markup \fontsize #16 "fontsize 16" }
  { c''1 }
}
%%

Here the text in the second output file is correctly sized, but with
the horizontal spacing only half what it should be.  It is similar to
the problem found with \abs-fontsize.

However, in this case the problem is unlikely to be an issue in
practice, because the only circumstances I have found in which it
occurs are when (a) the second staff size is exactly half (or double)
the first staff size, AND (b) the second fontsize is smaller (or
greater) than the first by exactly 6.

Weird, eh?

Should I file a bug report about these issues, and if so should it be
reported as one bug or two?  Or should I leave it to somebody who is
more au fait with the requirements and format of bug reports?

David

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Kastrup]

David Sumbler  writes:

> On Wed, 2018-05-16 at 16:55 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
>> David Sumbler  writes:
>> 
>> > 
>> > At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer
>> > etc. at
>> > the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.
>> > 
>> > A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout and
>> > font-
>> > sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point staves
>> > and
>> > a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the
>> > layout
>> > twice?
>> > 
>> > Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal spacing
>> > is
>> > still affected by the global staff size.
>> Can you show how you are using \abs-fontsize ?
>
> %%
> \version "2.19.81"
>
> #(set-global-staff-size 20)
> \book {
>   \bookOutputName "test1"
>   \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
>   { c''1 }
> }
>
> #(set-global-staff-size 16)
> \book {
>   \bookOutputName "test2"
>   \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
>   { c''1 }
> }
> %%
>
> In "test2" above the title letters are the correct size, but are
> horizontally squashed together by a factor of 16/20.
>
> David

Ok, this is definitely off-color.  I suspected you writing

\abs-fontsize #20 { word word word } instead of, say,
\abs-fontsize #20 \line { word word word } or
\abs-fontsize #20 { "word word word" }

That would resize the individual words but leave alone the
interword-space.  But here actually the letter space is ruined.  That
definitely looks like \abs-fontsize is not doing what it should here.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Sumbler]

On Wed, 2018-05-16 at 16:55 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> David Sumbler  writes:
> 
> > 
> > At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer
> > etc. at
> > the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.
> > 
> > A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout and
> > font-
> > sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point staves
> > and
> > a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the
> > layout
> > twice?
> > 
> > Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal spacing
> > is
> > still affected by the global staff size.
> Can you show how you are using \abs-fontsize ?

%%
\version "2.19.81"

#(set-global-staff-size 20)
\book {
  \bookOutputName "test1"
  \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
  { c''1 }
}

#(set-global-staff-size 16)
\book {
  \bookOutputName "test2"
  \header { title = \markup \abs-fontsize #20 "abs-fontsize 20" }
  { c''1 }
}
%%

In "test2" above the title letters are the correct size, but are
horizontally squashed together by a factor of 16/20.

David

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Re: Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Kastrup]

David Sumbler  writes:

> At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer etc. at
> the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.
>
> A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout and font-
> sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point staves and
> a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the layout
> twice?
>
> Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal spacing is
> still affected by the global staff size.

Can you show how you are using \abs-fontsize ?

-- 
David Kastrup

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Maintaining font-size regardless of staff-size

[David Sumbler]

At the moment I define variables for formatting title, composer etc. at
the start of a score separately for each staff-size that I use.

A simple question: is there a way of getting the same layout and font-
sizes for the opening headings of, say, a part with 20-point staves and
a full score with 16-point staves without having to define the layout
twice?

Using \abs-fontsize does not work, because the horizontal spacing is
still affected by the global staff size.

David

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