Re: Microtonal midi output
Hi Graham, Am 10.05.21 um 18:40 schrieb Graham Breed: I didn't write any C++ but I looked at the C++ code and it looks trivial to change the pitch bend messages to MTS. "Trivial" is in the eye of the beholder :-), but it was easy enough for me to succeed. I tested with FluidSynth, and there's an update that I don't think I pushed. I think it was that you need to use the all devices Device ID (0x7f) instead of the channel number. That information literally saved my life just now: I'm in the process of creating some teaching material for tomorrow; timidity behaves strangely on my system, and FluidSynth didn't seem to use all of the tuning information in the MIDI file. The change in the Device ID you described was what did the trick, and there's no way I could have found this out by myself this evening. Thanks much! What would be more difficult is adding all the options so that either pitch bends or MTS would work — or remembering the current state so you only need to send a message when something changes. Yes, that's what I had in mind also. Conceptually, it seems clear what to do (keep track of the 'current' tuning for each key for each channel), but one has to find the right place to hook this into LilyPond's rather involved wiring. That's a task for the upcoming holidays. Best Lukas
Re: Microtonal midi output
On 09/05/2021, Hans Åberg wrote: > >> On 9 May 2021, at 19:31, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote: >> >> I looked into it a bit today, and I can gladly report that (while the code >> still needs some cleaning up), I managed to patch my LilyPond to >> automatically generate the MTS messages that Graham's Python script adds >> in post-processing. (Of course, that wouldn't have been possible without >> being able to use Graham's code as a cheat sheet!) > > Graham also wrote some C++ code for generating MTS pitches that was not > integrated into LilyPond, I think. I didn't write any C++ but I looked at the C++ code and it looks trivial to change the pitch bend messages to MTS. What would be more difficult is adding all the options so that either pitch bends or MTS would work — or remembering the current state so you only need to send a message when something changes. I tested with FluidSynth, and there's an update that I don't think I pushed. I think it was that you need to use the all devices Device ID (0x7f) instead of the channel number. Graham
Re: Microtonal midi output
> On 9 May 2021, at 19:31, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote: > > I looked into it a bit today, and I can gladly report that (while the code > still needs some cleaning up), I managed to patch my LilyPond to > automatically generate the MTS messages that Graham's Python script adds in > post-processing. (Of course, that wouldn't have been possible without being > able to use Graham's code as a cheat sheet!) Graham also wrote some C++ code for generating MTS pitches that was not integrated into LilyPond, I think.
Re: Microtonal midi output
Le 09/05/2021 à 19:31, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
Hi Jean,
It is a well-known trick… See
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3139
Ah yes, thank you, I didn't know that. But I'm also relieved that DK
seems to share my misgivings about the conceptual jumble involved... :-)
Well yes. I'm not particularly happy about
it, just that I couldn't find anything simpler,
and the function would have been somewhat unuseful
without support for non-integers ;-)
As Graham pointed out, LilyPond's habit of setting pitch bends
before a note and re-setting it immediately after a note whose
alteration is not in 1/2 * Z leads to strange effects with the
release (or reverb) of a note. This can be observed in examples
involving rests between re-tuned notes. I patched my LilyPond for
this: Now it never explicitly resets MIDI pitch bends, instead each
and every note gets a pitch-bend command. (Which would be crazy for
most applications, but is fine for my special needs involving lots
of re-tuned notes.) I didn't have time to find out how to make this
user-configurable.
An option would be to go create an issue at
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues
and attach your patch there, noting that it
is a work-in-progress and configurability should
be added. That way, someone might pick it up.
- I'm already looking forward to Graham's solution to this problem
(post-processing the MIDI files using MTS messages.
I haven't tried it (understanding of MIDI is above
my pay grade), but it shoud certainly yield better
results.
I looked into it a bit today, and I can gladly report that (while the
code still needs some cleaning up), I managed to patch my LilyPond to
automatically generate the MTS messages that Graham's Python script
adds in post-processing. (Of course, that wouldn't have been possible
without being able to use Graham's code as a cheat sheet!)
As an example I attach the midi files generated by
\score {
{
4 r
<$(ly:make-pitch 0 0 -1/4) e'> r
r
<$(ly:make-pitch 0 0 1/4) e'> r
<$(ly:make-pitch 0 0 1/8) e'> r
r
}
\layout {}
\midi {}
}
with official 2.22.0 and with my patched master. Compare with special
focus on the pitch of the e (which should be the same for all three
chords), and on what happens during release.
I'm a bit nervous about my lack of insight in possible side-effects of
my tempering with the C++ code, but I'll try to make available a patch
that more knowledgeable people can at least take as a starting point.
This looks very nice! I look forward to
seeing the patch.
Cheers,
Jean
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hi Lukas! > I think you're mistaken Well, that certainly wouldn’t be the first time… ;) That’s what I get for not testing it myself. Thanks for setting the record straight! (and apologies to the list for my error) Cheers, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his) ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hi Jean,
... using LilyPond's moment-arithmetic (number on the time axis) to
deal with non-integer tone counts (numbers on the pitch axis) seems
to me like a reasonable contender for an obfuscated Lily coding
contest. :-) But impressive it is.
It is a well-known trick… See
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3139
Ah yes, thank you, I didn't know that. But I'm also relieved that DK
seems to share my misgivings about the conceptual jumble involved... :-)
As Graham pointed out, LilyPond's habit of setting pitch bends before
a note and re-setting it immediately after a note whose alteration is
not in 1/2 * Z leads to strange effects with the release (or reverb)
of a note. This can be observed in examples involving rests between
re-tuned notes. I patched my LilyPond for this: Now it never
explicitly resets MIDI pitch bends, instead each and every note gets
a pitch-bend command. (Which would be crazy for most applications,
but is fine for my special needs involving lots of re-tuned notes.) I
didn't have time to find out how to make this user-configurable.
An option would be to go create an issue at
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues
and attach your patch there, noting that it
is a work-in-progress and configurability should
be added. That way, someone might pick it up.
- I'm already looking forward to Graham's solution to this problem
(post-processing the MIDI files using MTS messages.
I haven't tried it (understanding of MIDI is above
my pay grade), but it shoud certainly yield better
results.
I looked into it a bit today, and I can gladly report that (while the
code still needs some cleaning up), I managed to patch my LilyPond to
automatically generate the MTS messages that Graham's Python script adds
in post-processing. (Of course, that wouldn't have been possible without
being able to use Graham's code as a cheat sheet!)
As an example I attach the midi files generated by
\score {
{
4 r
<$(ly:make-pitch 0 0 -1/4) e'> r
r
<$(ly:make-pitch 0 0 1/4) e'> r
<$(ly:make-pitch 0 0 1/8) e'> r
r
}
\layout {}
\midi {}
}
with official 2.22.0 and with my patched master. Compare with special
focus on the pitch of the e (which should be the same for all three
chords), and on what happens during release.
I'm a bit nervous about my lack of insight in possible side-effects of
my tempering with the C++ code, but I'll try to make available a patch
that more knowledgeable people can at least take as a starting point.
Lukas
test-2.22.0.midi
Description: MIDI audio
test-patched-master.midi
Description: MIDI audio
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hi Kieren,
If they’re in the same file (which they appear to be), then I believe the MIDI
output of your second \score block — the non-detuned one! — will overwrite the
MIDI output of the first one. You need to have separate files (or at least
separate \book blocks, with explicit and different target file names) in order
to output two separate MIDI files.
I think you're mistaken:
\version "2.22.0"
music = { c' }
\score {
\music
\layout {}
\midi {}
}
\score {
\music
\midi {}
}
generates test.midi and test-1.midi.
Lukas
Re: Microtonal midi output
My bad sorry for the spam. Looks fine to me I found my silly mistake.
Thanks
Brahim
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday 9 May 2021 16:07, Jacques Menu wrote:
> Hello Brahim,
>
> What do you mean by ‘run this script’?
>
> JM
>
> > Le 9 mai 2021 à 15:58, brahim.pro brahim@protonmail.com a écrit :
> > Hello,
> > Thanks for the feedback.
> > Actually I cannot manage to run this script.
> > I tried this for example:
> > \version "2.22.0"
> > tuneMIDI =
> > #(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
> > (let ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
> > (for-some-music
> > (lambda (m)
> > (let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
> > (if (ly:pitch? pitch)
> > (let* ((note-name (ly:pitch-notename pitch))
> > (alteration (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))
> > (offset (assoc-ref scale
> > (cons note-name alteration
> > (if offset
> > (let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
> > (new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
> > transpose-pitch)))
> > (ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
> > #f))
> > copy)
> > copy))
> > myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis aes a b c d e f gis aes a }
> > { \myNotes }
> > \midi {
> > \tempo 4 = 120
> > }
> > \score {
> > \tuneMIDI
> > #'(
> > ; Lower F (index 3 in C major scale if 0 is C, no alteration) by
> > 1/10 tone.
> > ((3 . 0) . -1/2)
> > ; Raise G# (index 4, sharp) by 1/10 tone.
> > ((4 . 1/2) . 1/2)
> > )
> > \myNotes
> > \midi { }
> > }
> > \score {
> > \myNotes
> > \midi { }
> > }
> > And I have two same midi files.
> > I tried also to make big detuning, but I just cannot hear that. I
> > downloaded the last version of lilypond, and I still cannot manage to run
> > this script.
> > I don't know what am I doing wrong?
> > Brahim
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > On Sunday 9 May 2021 10:06, Jean Abou Samra j...@abou-samra.fr wrote:
> >
> > > Le 08/05/2021 à 23:50, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
> > >
> > > > Hi Jean,
> > > >
> > > > > (let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch))
> > > > > (r (ly:moment-main
> > > > > (ly:moment-mod
> > > > > (ly:make-moment tones 0)
> > > > > (ly:make-moment 6 0
> > > >
> > > > ... using LilyPond's moment-arithmetic (number on the time axis) to
> > > > deal with non-integer tone counts (numbers on the pitch axis) seems to
> > > > me like a reasonable contender for an obfuscated Lily coding contest.
> > > > :-) But impressive it is.
> > >
> > > It is a well-known trick… See
> > > https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3139
> > > Guile's modulo and remainder functions only
> > > support integers, which is pitiful. Guile 2
> > > brought an improvement with euclidean-quotient
> > > and euclidean-remainder, which always yield a
> > > positive remainder, and support rationals as well
> > > as floats.
> > >
> > > > Maybe it's worth pointing out that your solution hardwires enharmonic
> > > > identification (if I'm not mistaken). Of course I don't know what the
> > > > OP intends to do, but in lots of real-life applications for re-tuning
> > > > it's worth keeping the difference between f-sharp and g-flat alive.
> > >
> > > Here is an enhanced version that stops enharmonic
> > > identification, and copies the music before processing
> > > it, to address Brahim's request.
> > > \version "2.22.0"
> > > tuneMIDI =
> > > #(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
> > > (let ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
> > > (for-some-music
> > > (lambda (m)
> > > (let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
> > > (if (ly:pitch? pitch)
> > > (let* ((note-name (ly:pitch-notename pitch))
> > > (alteration (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))
> > > (offset (assoc-ref scale
> > > (cons note-name alteration
> > > (if offset
> > > (let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
> > > (new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
> > > transpose-pitch)))
> > > (ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
> > > #f))
> > > copy)
> > > copy))
> > > myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis aes a b c d e f gis aes a }
> > > { \myNotes }
> > > \midi {
> > > \tempo 4 = 120
> > > }
> > > \score {
> > > \tuneMIDI
> > > #'(
> > > ; Lower F (index 3 in C major scale if 0 is C, no alteration) by
> > > 1/10 tone.
> > > ((3 . 0) . -1/10)
> > > ; Raise G# (index 4, sharp) by 1/10 tone.
> > > ((4 . 1/2) . 2/10)
> > > )
> > > \myNotes
> > > \midi { }
> > > }
> > > \score {
> > > \tuneMIDI
> > > #'(((3 . 0) . -1/10))
> > > \myNotes
> > > \midi { }
> > > }
> > >
> > > > As Graham pointed out, LilyPond's habit of setting pitch bends before
> > > > a note and re-setting it immediately after a note whose alteration is
> > > > not in 1/2 * Z leads to strange effects with the release (or reverb)
> > > > of a note. This can be observed in examples involving rests between
> > > > re-tuned notes. I patched my LilyPond for this: Now it never
> > > > explicitly resets MIDI pitch bends, instead each and every note gets a
> > > > pitch-bend command. (Which would be crazy for most applications, but
> > > > is fine for my special needs involving lots
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hi there, > Actually I cannot manage to run this script. > I tried this for example: […] > And I have two same midi files. If they’re in the same file (which they appear to be), then I believe the MIDI output of your second \score block — the non-detuned one! — will overwrite the MIDI output of the first one. You need to have separate files (or at least separate \book blocks, with explicit and different target file names) in order to output two separate MIDI files. Hope that helps! Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his) ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hello Brahim,
What do you mean by ‘run this script’?
JM
> Le 9 mai 2021 à 15:58, brahim.pro a écrit :
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
> Actually I cannot manage to run this script.
> I tried this for example:
>
> \version "2.22.0"
>
> tuneMIDI =
> #(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
>(let ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
> (for-some-music
>(lambda (m)
> (let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
>(if (ly:pitch? pitch)
>(let* ((note-name (ly:pitch-notename pitch))
> (alteration (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))
> (offset (assoc-ref scale
> (cons note-name alteration
> (if offset
> (let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
> (new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
> transpose-pitch)))
>(ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
>#f))
>copy)
> copy))
>
> myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis aes a b c d e f gis aes a }
>
> { \myNotes }
>
> \midi {
> \tempo 4 = 120
> }
>
> \score {
> \tuneMIDI
> #'(
>; Lower F (index 3 in C major scale if 0 is C, no alteration) by
> 1/10 tone.
>((3 . 0) . -1/2)
>; Raise G# (index 4, sharp) by 1/10 tone.
>((4 . 1/2) . 1/2)
>)
> \myNotes
> \midi { }
> }
>
> \score {
> \myNotes
> \midi { }
> }
>
> And I have two same midi files.
> I tried also to make big detuning, but I just cannot hear that. I downloaded
> the last version of lilypond, and I still cannot manage to run this script.
>
> I don't know what am I doing wrong?
>
> Brahim
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Sunday 9 May 2021 10:06, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
>
>> Le 08/05/2021 à 23:50, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi Jean,
>>>
(let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch))
(r (ly:moment-main
(ly:moment-mod
(ly:make-moment tones 0)
(ly:make-moment 6 0
>>>
>>> ... using LilyPond's moment-arithmetic (number on the time axis) to
>>> deal with non-integer tone counts (numbers on the pitch axis) seems to
>>> me like a reasonable contender for an obfuscated Lily coding contest.
>>> :-) But impressive it is.
>>
>> It is a well-known trick… See
>> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3139
>>
>> Guile's modulo and remainder functions only
>> support integers, which is pitiful. Guile 2
>> brought an improvement with euclidean-quotient
>> and euclidean-remainder, which always yield a
>> positive remainder, and support rationals as well
>> as floats.
>>
>>> Maybe it's worth pointing out that your solution hardwires enharmonic
>>> identification (if I'm not mistaken). Of course I don't know what the
>>> OP intends to do, but in lots of real-life applications for re-tuning
>>> it's worth keeping the difference between f-sharp and g-flat alive.
>>
>> Here is an enhanced version that stops enharmonic
>> identification, and copies the music before processing
>> it, to address Brahim's request.
>>
>> \version "2.22.0"
>>
>> tuneMIDI =
>> #(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
>>(let ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
>> (for-some-music
>>(lambda (m)
>> (let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
>>(if (ly:pitch? pitch)
>>(let* ((note-name (ly:pitch-notename pitch))
>> (alteration (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))
>> (offset (assoc-ref scale
>> (cons note-name alteration
>> (if offset
>> (let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
>> (new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
>> transpose-pitch)))
>>(ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
>>#f))
>>copy)
>> copy))
>>
>> myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis aes a b c d e f gis aes a }
>>
>> { \myNotes }
>>
>> \midi {
>> \tempo 4 = 120
>> }
>>
>> \score {
>> \tuneMIDI
>> #'(
>>; Lower F (index 3 in C major scale if 0 is C, no alteration) by
>> 1/10 tone.
>>((3 . 0) . -1/10)
>>; Raise G# (index 4, sharp) by 1/10 tone.
>>((4 . 1/2) . 2/10)
>>)
>> \myNotes
>> \midi { }
>> }
>>
>> \score {
>> \tuneMIDI
>> #'(((3 . 0) . -1/10))
>> \myNotes
>> \midi { }
>> }
>>
>>> As Graham pointed out, LilyPond's habit of setting pitch bends before
>>> a note and re-setting it immediately after a note whose alteration is
>>> not in 1/2 * Z leads to strange effects with the release (or reverb)
>>> of a note. This can be observed in examples involving rests between
>>> re-tuned notes. I patched my LilyPond for this: Now it never
>>> explicitly resets
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hello,
Thanks for the feedback.
Actually I cannot manage to run this script.
I tried this for example:
\version "2.22.0"
tuneMIDI =
#(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
(let ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
(for-some-music
(lambda (m)
(let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
(if (ly:pitch? pitch)
(let* ((note-name (ly:pitch-notename pitch))
(alteration (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))
(offset (assoc-ref scale
(cons note-name alteration
(if offset
(let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
(new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
transpose-pitch)))
(ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
#f))
copy)
copy))
myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis aes a b c d e f gis aes a }
{ \myNotes }
\midi {
\tempo 4 = 120
}
\score {
\tuneMIDI
#'(
; Lower F (index 3 in C major scale if 0 is C, no alteration) by
1/10 tone.
((3 . 0) . -1/2)
; Raise G# (index 4, sharp) by 1/10 tone.
((4 . 1/2) . 1/2)
)
\myNotes
\midi { }
}
\score {
\myNotes
\midi { }
}
And I have two same midi files.
I tried also to make big detuning, but I just cannot hear that. I downloaded
the last version of lilypond, and I still cannot manage to run this script.
I don't know what am I doing wrong?
Brahim
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday 9 May 2021 10:06, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 08/05/2021 à 23:50, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
>
> > Hi Jean,
> >
> > > (let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch))
> > > (r (ly:moment-main
> > > (ly:moment-mod
> > > (ly:make-moment tones 0)
> > > (ly:make-moment 6 0
> >
> > ... using LilyPond's moment-arithmetic (number on the time axis) to
> > deal with non-integer tone counts (numbers on the pitch axis) seems to
> > me like a reasonable contender for an obfuscated Lily coding contest.
> > :-) But impressive it is.
>
> It is a well-known trick… See
> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3139
>
> Guile's modulo and remainder functions only
> support integers, which is pitiful. Guile 2
> brought an improvement with euclidean-quotient
> and euclidean-remainder, which always yield a
> positive remainder, and support rationals as well
> as floats.
>
> > Maybe it's worth pointing out that your solution hardwires enharmonic
> > identification (if I'm not mistaken). Of course I don't know what the
> > OP intends to do, but in lots of real-life applications for re-tuning
> > it's worth keeping the difference between f-sharp and g-flat alive.
>
> Here is an enhanced version that stops enharmonic
> identification, and copies the music before processing
> it, to address Brahim's request.
>
> \version "2.22.0"
>
> tuneMIDI =
> #(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
> (let ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
> (for-some-music
> (lambda (m)
> (let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
> (if (ly:pitch? pitch)
> (let* ((note-name (ly:pitch-notename pitch))
> (alteration (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))
> (offset (assoc-ref scale
> (cons note-name alteration
> (if offset
> (let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
> (new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
> transpose-pitch)))
> (ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
> #f))
> copy)
> copy))
>
> myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis aes a b c d e f gis aes a }
>
> { \myNotes }
>
> \midi {
> \tempo 4 = 120
> }
>
> \score {
> \tuneMIDI
> #'(
> ; Lower F (index 3 in C major scale if 0 is C, no alteration) by
> 1/10 tone.
> ((3 . 0) . -1/10)
> ; Raise G# (index 4, sharp) by 1/10 tone.
> ((4 . 1/2) . 2/10)
> )
> \myNotes
> \midi { }
> }
>
> \score {
> \tuneMIDI
> #'(((3 . 0) . -1/10))
> \myNotes
> \midi { }
> }
>
> > As Graham pointed out, LilyPond's habit of setting pitch bends before
> > a note and re-setting it immediately after a note whose alteration is
> > not in 1/2 * Z leads to strange effects with the release (or reverb)
> > of a note. This can be observed in examples involving rests between
> > re-tuned notes. I patched my LilyPond for this: Now it never
> > explicitly resets MIDI pitch bends, instead each and every note gets a
> > pitch-bend command. (Which would be crazy for most applications, but
> > is fine for my special needs involving lots of re-tuned notes.) I
> > didn't have time to find out how to make this user-configurable.
>
> An option would be to
Re: Microtonal midi output
Le 08/05/2021 à 23:50, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
Hi Jean,
(let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch))
(r (ly:moment-main
(ly:moment-mod
(ly:make-moment tones 0)
(ly:make-moment 6 0
... using LilyPond's moment-arithmetic (number on the time axis) to
deal with non-integer tone counts (numbers on the pitch axis) seems to
me like a reasonable contender for an obfuscated Lily coding contest.
:-) But impressive it is.
It is a well-known trick… See
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/3139
Guile's modulo and remainder functions only
support integers, which is pitiful. Guile 2
brought an improvement with euclidean-quotient
and euclidean-remainder, which always yield a
positive remainder, and support rationals as well
as floats.
Maybe it's worth pointing out that your solution hardwires enharmonic
identification (if I'm not mistaken). Of course I don't know what the
OP intends to do, but in lots of real-life applications for re-tuning
it's worth keeping the difference between f-sharp and g-flat alive.
Here is an enhanced version that stops enharmonic
identification, and copies the music before processing
it, to address Brahim's request.
\version "2.22.0"
tuneMIDI =
#(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
(let ((copy (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
(for-some-music
(lambda (m)
(let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
(if (ly:pitch? pitch)
(let* ((note-name (ly:pitch-notename pitch))
(alteration (ly:pitch-alteration pitch))
(offset (assoc-ref scale
(cons note-name alteration
(if offset
(let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
(new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
transpose-pitch)))
(ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
#f))
copy)
copy))
myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis aes a b c d e f gis aes a }
{ \myNotes }
\midi {
\tempo 4 = 120
}
\score {
\tuneMIDI
#'(
; Lower F (index 3 in C major scale if 0 is C, no alteration) by
1/10 tone.
((3 . 0) . -1/10)
; Raise G# (index 4, sharp) by 1/10 tone.
((4 . 1/2) . 2/10)
)
\myNotes
\midi { }
}
\score {
\tuneMIDI
#'(((3 . 0) . -1/10))
\myNotes
\midi { }
}
As Graham pointed out, LilyPond's habit of setting pitch bends before
a note and re-setting it immediately after a note whose alteration is
not in 1/2 * Z leads to strange effects with the release (or reverb)
of a note. This can be observed in examples involving rests between
re-tuned notes. I patched my LilyPond for this: Now it never
explicitly resets MIDI pitch bends, instead each and every note gets a
pitch-bend command. (Which would be crazy for most applications, but
is fine for my special needs involving lots of re-tuned notes.) I
didn't have time to find out how to make this user-configurable.
An option would be to go create an issue at
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues
and attach your patch there, noting that it
is a work-in-progress and configurability should
be added. That way, someone might pick it up.
- I'm already looking forward to Graham's solution to this problem
(post-processing the MIDI files using MTS messages.
I haven't tried it (understanding of MIDI is above
my pay grade), but it shoud certainly yield better
results.
Cheers,
Jean
Re: Microtonal midi output
This script is great and contains exactly what I want. I would have never found
that by my own.
Thanks a lot.
Is there a way to call it twice in the same score? Imagine I have two musical
phrases that I want to tune differently, can I use this script?
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday 8 May 2021 23:19, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 08/05/2021 à 20:33, brahim.pro a écrit :
>
> > Hello,
> > I would like to define a scale, let's say A minor, and slightly change
> > the frequency of the notes in the output MIDI file. I have trouble
> > finding this feature in the documentation. So does this feature exist
> > and how to do that?
> > Thanks,
> > Brahim
>
> Hello,
>
> You can always implement it in Scheme... Something like this,
> tampering with the pitches:
>
> \version "2.22.0"
>
> tuneMIDI =
> #(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
> (for-some-music
> (lambda (m)
> (let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
> (if (ly:pitch? pitch)
> (let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch))
> (r (ly:moment-main
> (ly:moment-mod
> (ly:make-moment tones 0)
> (ly:make-moment 6 0
> (offset (assv-ref scale r)))
> (ly:message "~s" r)
> (if offset
> (let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
> (new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
> transpose-pitch)))
> (ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
> #t)
> #f))
> #f)))
> music)
> music)
>
> myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis a b c d e f gis a }
>
> { \myNotes }
>
> \score {
> \tuneMIDI
> #'(
> ; Lower F (5/2 tones above C) by 1/10 tone.
> (5/2 . -1/10)
> ; Raise G# by 1/10 tone.
> (4 . 1/10)
> )
> \myNotes
> \midi { }
> }
>
> Note how this requires separating out MIDI generation in
> a dedicated \score block.
>
> I was told that my email client inserts non-breaking
> spaces in my code examples. If this happens and you
> can't compile the file, please use the attachment.
>
> Best,
> Jean
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hi Jean, (let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch)) (r (ly:moment-main (ly:moment-mod (ly:make-moment tones 0) (ly:make-moment 6 0 ... using LilyPond's moment-arithmetic (number on the time axis) to deal with non-integer tone counts (numbers on the pitch axis) seems to me like a reasonable contender for an obfuscated Lily coding contest. :-) But impressive it is. Maybe it's worth pointing out that your solution hardwires enharmonic identification (if I'm not mistaken). Of course I don't know what the OP intends to do, but in lots of real-life applications for re-tuning it's worth keeping the difference between f-sharp and g-flat alive. As Graham pointed out, LilyPond's habit of setting pitch bends before a note and re-setting it immediately after a note whose alteration is not in 1/2 * Z leads to strange effects with the release (or reverb) of a note. This can be observed in examples involving rests between re-tuned notes. I patched my LilyPond for this: Now it never explicitly resets MIDI pitch bends, instead each and every note gets a pitch-bend command. (Which would be crazy for most applications, but is fine for my special needs involving lots of re-tuned notes.) I didn't have time to find out how to make this user-configurable. - I'm already looking forward to Graham's solution to this problem (post-processing the MIDI files using MTS messages. Lukas
Re: Microtonal midi output
Dear Jean, > You can always implement it in Scheme... Something like this 1. Lilypond is amazing. 2. You are as well. Cheers, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his) ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info
Re: Microtonal midi output
Le 08/05/2021 à 20:33, brahim.pro a écrit :
Hello,
I would like to define a scale, let's say A minor, and slightly change
the frequency of the notes in the output MIDI file. I have trouble
finding this feature in the documentation. So does this feature exist
and how to do that?
Thanks,
Brahim
Hello,
You can always implement it in Scheme... Something like this,
tampering with the pitches:
\version "2.22.0"
tuneMIDI =
#(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
(for-some-music
(lambda (m)
(let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
(if (ly:pitch? pitch)
(let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch))
(r (ly:moment-main
(ly:moment-mod
(ly:make-moment tones 0)
(ly:make-moment 6 0
(offset (assv-ref scale r)))
(ly:message "~s" r)
(if offset
(let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
(new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch
transpose-pitch)))
(ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
#t)
#f))
#f)))
music)
music)
myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis a b c d e f gis a }
{ \myNotes }
\score {
\tuneMIDI
#'(
; Lower F (5/2 tones above C) by 1/10 tone.
(5/2 . -1/10)
; Raise G# by 1/10 tone.
(4 . 1/10)
)
\myNotes
\midi { }
}
Note how this requires separating out MIDI generation in
a dedicated \score block.
I was told that my email client inserts non-breaking
spaces in my code examples. If this happens and you
can't compile the file, please use the attachment.
Best,
Jean
\version "2.22.0"
tuneMIDI =
#(define-music-function (scale music) (list? ly:music?)
(for-some-music
(lambda (m)
(let ((pitch (ly:music-property m 'pitch)))
(if (ly:pitch? pitch)
(let* ((tones (ly:pitch-tones pitch))
(r (ly:moment-main
(ly:moment-mod
(ly:make-moment tones 0)
(ly:make-moment 6 0
(offset (assv-ref scale r)))
(ly:message "~s" r)
(if offset
(let* ((transpose-pitch (ly:make-pitch 0 0 offset))
(new-pitch (ly:pitch-transpose pitch transpose-pitch)))
(ly:music-set-property! m 'pitch new-pitch)
#t)
#f))
#f)))
music)
music)
myNotes = \relative { a b c d e f gis a b c d e f gis a }
{ \myNotes }
\score {
\tuneMIDI
#'(
; Lower F (5/2 tones above C) by 1/10 tone.
(5/2 . -1/10)
; Raise G# by 1/10 tone.
(4 . 1/10)
)
\myNotes
\midi { }
}
Re: Microtonal midi output
On 08/05/2021, Hans Åberg wrote: > >> On 8 May 2021, at 22:18, brahim.pro wrote: >> >> Thanks for the reply. For example, I would like to play A minor scale with >> normal A(440Hz). But I would like the interval A, B to be 203 cents >> instead of 200. Or I would like the interval A, C to be 315 cents instead >> of 300 cents. >> >> If I understand your answer correctly the note is tied to the midi value. >> But I would like for that midi value generate a slightly different >> frequency. Is that possible? > > You can't do it like that. The MIDI value is tied to the note values, the > other way around. And you can't adjust the tuning frequency, it is C4 not > A4. One can do fine tunings by going up in ET, Graham Breed is doing that, > but I do not keep track of that. No, you can do fine tuning. LilyPond will do it with pitch bends by default. I have scripts to turn the pitch bends into MIDI Tuning Standard messages, which are much more solid. Details at http://x31eq.com/lilypond Some things break with newer versions of LilyPond. Graham
Re: Microtonal midi output
Hi there, > Thanks for the reply. For example, I would like to play A minor scale with > normal A(440Hz). But I would like the interval A, B to be 203 cents instead > of 200. Or I would like the interval A, C to be 315 cents instead of 300 > cents. Sounds to me like you’ll either want to post-process that in your sequencer, or possibly apply some sort of script during the Lilypond-to-MIDI stage that adjusts the pitch value appropriately. I’d personally go with the first option: in most sequencers, you can simply program a virtual instrument to be tuned how you want it! Hope that helps, Kieren. Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his) ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info ‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info
Re: Microtonal midi output
> On 8 May 2021, at 22:18, brahim.pro wrote: > > Thanks for the reply. For example, I would like to play A minor scale with > normal A(440Hz). But I would like the interval A, B to be 203 cents instead > of 200. Or I would like the interval A, C to be 315 cents instead of 300 > cents. > > If I understand your answer correctly the note is tied to the midi value. But > I would like for that midi value generate a slightly different frequency. Is > that possible? You can't do it like that. The MIDI value is tied to the note values, the other way around. And you can't adjust the tuning frequency, it is C4 not A4. One can do fine tunings by going up in ET, Graham Breed is doing that, but I do not keep track of that. > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Saturday 8 May 2021 21:17, Hans Åberg wrote: > >>> On 8 May 2021, at 20:33, brahim.pro brahim@protonmail.com wrote: >>> I would like to define a scale, let's say A minor, and slightly change the >>> frequency of the notes in the output MIDI file. I have trouble finding this >>> feature in the documentation. So does this feature exist and how to do that? >> >> In LilyPond, the note and MIDI values are tied together, so you need to be >> more specific what you want to do. ETs multiples of 12 are straightforward, >> for example E72 is good approximation of the 11-limit. For arbitrary ETs, >> there is Graham Breed's fileregular.ly. > >
Re: Microtonal midi output
Thanks for the reply. For example, I would like to play A minor scale with normal A(440Hz). But I would like the interval A, B to be 203 cents instead of 200. Or I would like the interval A, C to be 315 cents instead of 300 cents. If I understand your answer correctly the note is tied to the midi value. But I would like for that midi value generate a slightly different frequency. Is that possible? Thanks ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday 8 May 2021 21:17, Hans Åberg wrote: > > On 8 May 2021, at 20:33, brahim.pro brahim@protonmail.com wrote: > > I would like to define a scale, let's say A minor, and slightly change the > > frequency of the notes in the output MIDI file. I have trouble finding this > > feature in the documentation. So does this feature exist and how to do that? > > In LilyPond, the note and MIDI values are tied together, so you need to be > more specific what you want to do. ETs multiples of 12 are straightforward, > for example E72 is good approximation of the 11-limit. For arbitrary ETs, > there is Graham Breed's fileregular.ly.
Re: Microtonal midi output
I am interested in learning about this capability, too. I have 2 further questions: 1. What is ET? 2. Where is regular.ly available from? Thank you. On 2021-05-08 20:17, Hans Åberg wrote: On 8 May 2021, at 20:33, brahim.pro wrote: I would like to define a scale, let's say A minor, and slightly change the frequency of the notes in the output MIDI file. I have trouble finding this feature in the documentation. So does this feature exist and how to do that? In LilyPond, the note and MIDI values are tied together, so you need to be more specific what you want to do. ETs multiples of 12 are straightforward, for example E72 is good approximation of the 11-limit. For arbitrary ETs, there is Graham Breed's file regular.ly.
Re: Microtonal midi output
> On 8 May 2021, at 20:33, brahim.pro wrote: > > I would like to define a scale, let's say A minor, and slightly change the > frequency of the notes in the output MIDI file. I have trouble finding this > feature in the documentation. So does this feature exist and how to do that? In LilyPond, the note and MIDI values are tied together, so you need to be more specific what you want to do. ETs multiples of 12 are straightforward, for example E72 is good approximation of the 11-limit. For arbitrary ETs, there is Graham Breed's file regular.ly.
Microtonal midi output
Hello, I would like to define a scale, let's say A minor, and slightly change the frequency of the notes in the output MIDI file. I have trouble finding this feature in the documentation. So does this feature exist and how to do that? Thanks, Brahim
