Re: [SPAM] Re: acciaccatura before barline
On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 19:14:55 +0100 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Thanks, that's clarifying. Abs confirming that my model's notation is correct. David Stephen Grant da...@davidgrant.no schrieb am 27.03.2014: Elaine Gould writes: Grace notes sounding on the beat should always be placed after the barline. However, a group of three or more grace notes sounding before the beat may go before the barline so that the first beat of the following bar is not pushed too far from the barline. (Behind Bars, p. 127). However, to avoid ambiguity it is recommended to specify how the grace notes should be performed, eg. All grace notes to be performed before/on the beat. As for slurs, she advises slurring to the following measured value provided that this is the intended articulation. Clear as mud. (Kurt Stone: Music Notation in the Twentieth Century, p. 22) seems to recommend omitting the slur entirely, Why? Because of the contradiction. and adding a staccato dot if the grace note(s) should be detached. An interesting solution. Detaching at tempo would seem to be a challenge. Nevertheless, it is a proper paper solution to a paper problem. On 27 March 2014 18:22, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Is that really true? I've seen this notation regularly. What the composers seem to intend - and what is easily understood - is that the slur indicates that the grpup logically belongs to the _next_ note while the position before the barline tells to okay _before_ the beat. If they are grace notes, their time value must come from somewhere. If it comes from the following note, the grace notes start on that beat. How can the legatura mark change that? Sometimes under beams the grace note comes from the previous note. Isn't it a good idea to indicate that with a legatura? It often isn't. IAC, if writing grace notes before a bar means that their time does not come from the first beat, where does it come from if not the previous note? Logically belonging is not the issue, time is. Of course the worst time for an arbitrary hesitation or break is before a bar line, but that has nothing whatever to do with where the time value comes from. Of course you could write small notes that are not grace notes, but if you are inserting time into a measure would it not be good to provide for it somehow? And would not the presence of a legatura (slur mark) or legato (phrase mark) do nothing but confuse the issue if spanning a bar line? The legature spanning small notes don't make any difference in their execution anyway, so the marks are used to indicate where the time comes from, or for decoration. I apologize for not making this much shorter. It's late. :-) Regards, Rale -- For All Guitar Beginners: The pages of very easy solos missing from all of the published guitar methods of others. For All Guitarists: solos, duets, and peerless guitar exercises David Raleigh Arnold http://www.openguitar.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: acciaccatura before barline
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:22 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote: Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes: Hi all, consider the attached image. Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline. I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not what it is. Well, here is a bit of a cheat: -- David Kastrup Wonderful, David! Thanks so much. I've been trying to get \afterGrace to work nicely on acciaccaturas before a bar line for a long time, but \afterGrace always leaves too much space before the barline. Your cheat is perfect. Thanks again, Ralph -- Ralph Palmer Brattleboro, VT USA palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: acciaccatura before barline
On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:16:51 +0100 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Hi all, consider the attached image. Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline. I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not what it is. But that is what it is. The legatura (slur) should attach to a previous something in the previous measure if you want the grace before the beat. If that is not what you mean, omit the legatura and just use small notes. What you want would have notes before the beat which the legatura mark indicates to be played on the beat. That is a self-contradiction, and therefore ambiguous. Regards, Rale -- For All Guitar Beginners: The pages of very easy solos missing from all of the published guitar methods of others. For All Guitarists: solos, duets, and peerless guitar exercises David Raleigh Arnold http://www.openguitar.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: acciaccatura before barline
Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org writes:
Hi all,
consider the attached image.
Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right
now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline.
I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not
what it is.
Well, here is a bit of a cheat:
{
r1
\acciaccatura { \bar a8 b \bar | }
c'1
}
--
David Kastrup
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Re: acciaccatura before barline
Is that really true? I've seen this notation regularly. What the composers seem to intend - and what is easily understood - is that the slur indicates that the grpup logically belongs to the _next_ note while the position before the barline tells to okay _before_ the beat. David Raleigh Arnold d...@openguitar.com schrieb am 27.03.2014: On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:16:51 +0100 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Hi all, consider the attached image. Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline. I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not what it is. But that is what it is. The legatura (slur) should attach to a previous something in the previous measure if you want the grace before the beat. If that is not what you mean, omit the legatura and just use small notes. What you want would have notes before the beat which the legatura mark indicates to be played on the beat. That is a self-contradiction, and therefore ambiguous. Regards, Rale -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit a href=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2;bK-@ Mail/b/a gesendet.___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: acciaccatura before barline
Elaine Gould writes: Grace notes sounding on the beat should always be placed after the barline. However, a group of three or more grace notes sounding before the beat may go before the barline so that the first beat of the following bar is not pushed too far from the barline. (Behind Bars, p. 127). However, to avoid ambiguity it is recommended to specify how the grace notes should be performed, eg. All grace notes to be performed before/on the beat. As for slurs, she advises slurring to the following measured value provided that this is the intended articulation. Kurt Stone (Music Notation in the Twentieth Century, p. 22) seems to recommend omitting the slur entirely, and adding a staccato dot if the grace note(s) should be detached. On 27 March 2014 18:22, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Is that really true? I've seen this notation regularly. What the composers seem to intend - and what is easily understood - is that the slur indicates that the grpup logically belongs to the _next_ note while the position before the barline tells to okay _before_ the beat. David Raleigh Arnold d...@openguitar.com schrieb am 27.03.2014: On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:16:51 +0100 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Hi all, consider the attached image. Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline. I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not what it is. But that is what it is. The legatura (slur) should attach to a previous something in the previous measure if you want the grace before the beat. If that is not what you mean, omit the legatura and just use small notes. What you want would have notes before the beat which the legatura mark indicates to be played on the beat. That is a self-contradiction, and therefore ambiguous. Regards, Rale -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit *K-@ Mail*https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2gesendet. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- David Stephen Grant da...@davidgrant.no www.davidgrant.no Phone: (+47) 918 14 276 ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [SPAM] Re: acciaccatura before barline
Thanks, that's clarifying. Abs confirming that my model's notation is correct. David Stephen Grant da...@davidgrant.no schrieb am 27.03.2014: Elaine Gould writes: Grace notes sounding on the beat should always be placed after the barline. However, a group of three or more grace notes sounding before the beat may go before the barline so that the first beat of the following bar is not pushed too far from the barline. (Behind Bars, p. 127). However, to avoid ambiguity it is recommended to specify how the grace notes should be performed, eg. All grace notes to be performed before/on the beat. As for slurs, she advises slurring to the following measured value provided that this is the intended articulation. Kurt Stone (Music Notation in the Twentieth Century, p. 22) seems to recommend omitting the slur entirely, and adding a staccato dot if the grace note(s) should be detached. On 27 March 2014 18:22, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Is that really true? I've seen this notation regularly. What the composers seem to intend - and what is easily understood - is that the slur indicates that the grpup logically belongs to the _next_ note while the position before the barline tells to okay _before_ the beat. David Raleigh Arnold d...@openguitar.com schrieb am 27.03.2014: On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:16:51 +0100 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Hi all, consider the attached image. Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline. I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not what it is. But that is what it is. The legatura (slur) should attach to a previous something in the previous measure if you want the grace before the beat. If that is not what you mean, omit the legatura and just use small notes. What you want would have notes before the beat which the legatura mark indicates to be played on the beat. That is a self-contradiction, and therefore ambiguous. Regards, Rale -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit *K-@ Mail*https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2gesendet. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit a href=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2;bK-@ Mail/b/a gesendet.___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [SPAM] Re: acciaccatura before barline
Thanks, that's clarifying. Abs confirming that my model's notation is correct. David Stephen Grant da...@davidgrant.no schrieb am 27.03.2014: Elaine Gould writes: Grace notes sounding on the beat should always be placed after the barline. However, a group of three or more grace notes sounding before the beat may go before the barline so that the first beat of the following bar is not pushed too far from the barline. (Behind Bars, p. 127). However, to avoid ambiguity it is recommended to specify how the grace notes should be performed, eg. All grace notes to be performed before/on the beat. As for slurs, she advises slurring to the following measured value provided that this is the intended articulation. Kurt Stone (Music Notation in the Twentieth Century, p. 22) seems to recommend omitting the slur entirely, and adding a staccato dot if the grace note(s) should be detached. On 27 March 2014 18:22, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Is that really true? I've seen this notation regularly. What the composers seem to intend - and what is easily understood - is that the slur indicates that the grpup logically belongs to the _next_ note while the position before the barline tells to okay _before_ the beat. David Raleigh Arnold d...@openguitar.com schrieb am 27.03.2014: On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:16:51 +0100 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Hi all, consider the attached image. Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline. I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not what it is. But that is what it is. The legatura (slur) should attach to a previous something in the previous measure if you want the grace before the beat. If that is not what you mean, omit the legatura and just use small notes. What you want would have notes before the beat which the legatura mark indicates to be played on the beat. That is a self-contradiction, and therefore ambiguous. Regards, Rale -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit *K-@ Mail*https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2gesendet. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit a href=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2;bK-@ Mail/b/a gesendet.___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: [SPAM] Re: acciaccatura before barline
Thanks, that's clarifying. Abs confirming that my model's notation is correct. David Stephen Grant da...@davidgrant.no schrieb am 27.03.2014: Elaine Gould writes: Grace notes sounding on the beat should always be placed after the barline. However, a group of three or more grace notes sounding before the beat may go before the barline so that the first beat of the following bar is not pushed too far from the barline. (Behind Bars, p. 127). However, to avoid ambiguity it is recommended to specify how the grace notes should be performed, eg. All grace notes to be performed before/on the beat. As for slurs, she advises slurring to the following measured value provided that this is the intended articulation. Kurt Stone (Music Notation in the Twentieth Century, p. 22) seems to recommend omitting the slur entirely, and adding a staccato dot if the grace note(s) should be detached. On 27 March 2014 18:22, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Is that really true? I've seen this notation regularly. What the composers seem to intend - and what is easily understood - is that the slur indicates that the grpup logically belongs to the _next_ note while the position before the barline tells to okay _before_ the beat. David Raleigh Arnold d...@openguitar.com schrieb am 27.03.2014: On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:16:51 +0100 Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote: Hi all, consider the attached image. Apart from the problematic slur which I don't want to deal with right now, how can I typeset the acciaccatura _before_ the barline. I was thinking of hacking something with \afterGrace, but that's not what it is. But that is what it is. The legatura (slur) should attach to a previous something in the previous measure if you want the grace before the beat. If that is not what you mean, omit the legatura and just use small notes. What you want would have notes before the beat which the legatura mark indicates to be played on the beat. That is a self-contradiction, and therefore ambiguous. Regards, Rale -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit *K-@ Mail*https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2gesendet. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user -- Diese Nachricht wurde mit a href=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.pro2;bK-@ Mail/b/a gesendet.___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: \acciaccatura before barline?
Father Gordon Gilbert fatherg...@gmail.com writes: Thanks guys. That did the trick. Rather than set to ##t and ##f all the time, I did dsl = \set doubleSlurs = ##t dso = \set doubleSlurs = ##f and then used \dsl and \dso as needed. Lily is truly amazing! \once\dsl should also work with a reasonably current 2.15. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: \acciaccatura before barline?
Thanks guys,
That does indeed do what I want -- mostly. From the NR I tried
#(define afterGraceFraction (cons 15 16))
and it seems to have no effect on the placement of the grace notes,
which I would like to slide over as close as possible to the barline.
Any ideas?
Gordon+
On 01/01/2012, Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com wrote:
2012/1/1 Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com:
Use the \afterGrace command:
cis' g' a4-\sfz r r2 | r r4 \afterGrace a4( \mf { b16[ cis] } |
d4-.) cis e-. d fis-. b d-. |
It is also explained in NR 1.2.6 Special rhythmic concerns Grace notes
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/notation/special-rhythmic-concerns.html#grace-notes
While it is true that \afterGrace puts acciaccaturas after a note, in
my opinion it is still needed something that puts grace notes right
before the barline _and_ as close to it as possible. I mean, those
grace notes are spaced as belonging to the previous note, which is
what the name afterGrace suggests, by the way.
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com
--
Fr. Gordon Gilbert
Penetanguishene, ON
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Re: \acciaccatura before barline?
Wow! You never know what you'll find when you read further down the NR!
I found
\override Score.SpacingSpanner #'strict-grace-spacing = ##t
and put it in my \score, and that did the trick!
But now another question: I have a phrase like this :
a g'4(d fis)_.
where the original has slurs from both upper note to upper note, and
lower note to lower note. Lily seems to want to put only one slur on
there, on the lower notes.
Any ideas?
Gordon+
On 03/01/2012, Father Gordon Gilbert fatherg...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks guys,
That does indeed do what I want -- mostly. From the NR I tried
#(define afterGraceFraction (cons 15 16))
and it seems to have no effect on the placement of the grace notes,
which I would like to slide over as close as possible to the barline.
Any ideas?
Gordon+
On 01/01/2012, Francisco Vila paconet@gmail.com wrote:
2012/1/1 Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com:
Use the \afterGrace command:
cis' g' a4-\sfz r r2 | r r4 \afterGrace a4( \mf { b16[ cis] } |
d4-.) cis e-. d fis-. b d-. |
It is also explained in NR 1.2.6 Special rhythmic concerns Grace notes
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/notation/special-rhythmic-concerns.html#grace-notes
While it is true that \afterGrace puts acciaccaturas after a note, in
my opinion it is still needed something that puts grace notes right
before the barline _and_ as close to it as possible. I mean, those
grace notes are spaced as belonging to the previous note, which is
what the name afterGrace suggests, by the way.
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com
--
Fr. Gordon Gilbert
Penetanguishene, ON
--
Fr. Gordon Gilbert
Penetanguishene, ON
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Re: \acciaccatura before barline?
Father Gordon Gilbert wrote But now another question: I have a phrase like this : a g'4( d fis)_. where the original has slurs from both upper note to upper note, and lower note to lower note. Lily seems to want to put only one slur on there, on the lower notes. Any ideas? Try \set doubleSlurs = ##t Gordon+ Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: \acciaccatura before barline?
Thanks guys. That did the trick. Rather than set to ##t and ##f all the time, I did dsl = \set doubleSlurs = ##t dso = \set doubleSlurs = ##f and then used \dsl and \dso as needed. Lily is truly amazing! On 03/01/2012, Trevor Daniels t.dani...@treda.co.uk wrote: Father Gordon Gilbert wrote But now another question: I have a phrase like this : a g'4( d fis)_. where the original has slurs from both upper note to upper note, and lower note to lower note. Lily seems to want to put only one slur on there, on the lower notes. Any ideas? Try \set doubleSlurs = ##t Gordon+ Trevor -- Fr. Gordon Gilbert Penetanguishene, ON ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: \acciaccatura before barline?
On 1 January 2012 21:56, Father Gordon Gilbert fatherg...@gmail.com wrote:
Does anyone know how to place an \acciaccatura *before* the barline?
I'm using the following in copying a score, and where the original
shows it before the bar, Lily wants to place it after the barline.
I'm thinking that the original is perhaps musicologically wrong, but
accurate in its intent with the timing of the snippet.
Line of music follows:
cis' g' a4-\sfz r r2 | r r4 a4( \mf \acciaccatura { b16[ cis] } |
d4-.) cis e-. d fis-. b d-. |
I've placed the barcheck '|' where the original shows it, but Lily
places the barline before the acciaccatura. Otherwise the
construction looks fine. So my question is, how can I force the
barline *before*, or should I not even try, because it *should* be
after, as shown?
Use the \afterGrace command:
cis' g' a4-\sfz r r2 | r r4 \afterGrace a4( \mf { b16[ cis] } |
d4-.) cis e-. d fis-. b d-. |
It is also explained in NR 1.2.6 Special rhythmic concerns Grace notes
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/notation/special-rhythmic-concerns.html#grace-notes
Cheers,
Xavier
--
Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com
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Re: \acciaccatura before barline?
2012/1/1 Xavier Scheuer x.sche...@gmail.com:
Use the \afterGrace command:
cis' g' a4-\sfz r r2 | r r4 \afterGrace a4( \mf { b16[ cis] } |
d4-.) cis e-. d fis-. b d-. |
It is also explained in NR 1.2.6 Special rhythmic concerns Grace notes
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.15/Documentation/notation/special-rhythmic-concerns.html#grace-notes
While it is true that \afterGrace puts acciaccaturas after a note, in
my opinion it is still needed something that puts grace notes right
before the barline _and_ as close to it as possible. I mean, those
grace notes are spaced as belonging to the previous note, which is
what the name afterGrace suggests, by the way.
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com
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