Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 10/29/19 11:28 PM, Solomon Foster wrote:

"Christopher R. Maden"  writes:

The important part is to have files for each tune that define all
the info but which don’t actually *do* anything.  That gives you
the flexibility to do different things with that info in different
contexts.


Is there a technical reason to do this, or is it purely for your 
organizing?  I ask because I'm autogenerating my Lilypond from ABC

anyway, so my typical approach would be to do different contexts by
tweaking the ABC -> Lilypond translator.


Yes.  If one file does something (like has a \score block), then if I 
include it, I’ll get that score at the point where the file is included. 
 So if I have information I want to use in more than one context, I 
should isolate it in a file that generates no output, and have any 
output generation in discrete files.



I have a helper file called tunes.ly which handles layout and
making a MIDI of a dozen instruments playing in unison.


That would be very interesting to see, I think?


It’s at http://music.maden.org/images/9/90/Tunes.ly >.


PS chanteyman, eh?  https://whiskyandwater.wordpress.com/


Cool!  We certainly know people in common — I opened for Tom Kastle a 
few years ago.  I am a Working Chanteyman sometimes at Mystic Seaport 
Museum in southeastern Connecticut (and any ’Ponders who find themselves 
in the area should definitely say hi), and just got back from giving a 
concert at the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park.  The 
Draken Harald Hårfagre, which I guess you saw at Bay City Tall Ships, is 
currently berthed at Mystic.


~crism
--
Chris Maden, text nerd & chanteyman
http://crism.maden.org/ >
http://music.maden.org/ >
“Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me...” — Emma Lazarus

Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Solomon Foster]

"Christopher R. Maden"  writes:

>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 14:21:48 -0400
> From: "Christopher R. Maden" 
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond
> Message-ID: <3268a110-e979-6431-9eb8-5cbe4c20b...@maden.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 10/29/19 1:14 PM, Solomon Foster wrote:
> > I've been using Lilypond to render fiddle tunes for nearly a decade
> > now, and I'm looking at taking the next step -- namely making a
> > proper, large scale tunebook with it.  While the book I'm working on
> > right now has hundreds of tunes, it's not mine to redistribute, so
> > I've put together a quick PDF with some of my own tunes so you can
> > get the idea what sort of music I'm talking about:
> > http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/chunes.pdf
>
> Pretty sure I’ve answered this question on this list before...
>
> For each individual tune, I have one file (tunename_tune.ly) which only
> defines variables, and a wrapper (tunename.ly) which makes a PDF and a
> MIDI using those variables.  Then I have a big wrapper (tunebook.ly)
> which includes all the tunename_tune.ly files and makes a book out of
> them.
>
> The important part is to have files for each tune that define all the
> info but which don’t actually *do* anything.  That gives you the
> flexibility to do different things with that info in different contexts.
>

Is there a technical reason to do this, or is it purely for your
organizing?  I ask because I'm autogenerating my Lilypond from ABC anyway,
so my typical approach would be to do different contexts by tweaking the
ABC -> Lilypond translator.


> I have a helper file called tunes.ly which handles layout and making a
> MIDI of a dozen instruments playing in unison.
>

That would be very interesting to see, I think?

Thanks,
Sol

PS chanteyman, eh?  https://whiskyandwater.wordpress.com/

-- 
Solomon Foster: colo...@gmail.com
HarmonyWare, Inc: http://www.harmonyware.com

Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Solomon Foster]

Hi Mike,

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 1:34 PM Mike Kilmer  wrote:

> I did something along these lines a couple of years ago using something
> called lytex, which if I recall correctly sort of combines Tex typesetting
> with Lilypond.
>
> You can check out the main file (and entire codebase) here:
> https://github.com/MikeiLL/hymnal-Vol-II/blob/master/lilypond/hymnal.lytex
> .
>
> I forget what I was using Arara for, but I think that the way I have it
> set up Arara needs to be configured on your rendering computer to render
> the tex file and then that compiles.
>
> There’s also something called lilypond-book, but I think that’s more for
> including small clips of music within text.
>

I thought lilypond-book was what processed .lytex files?

Either way, going to full-fledged TeX seems like overkill for my purposes
-- but I will definitely keep it in mind if I find myself spending a lot of
time fighting against Lilypond's text handling.

Thanks,
Sol

-- 
Solomon Foster: colo...@gmail.com
HarmonyWare, Inc: http://www.harmonyware.com

Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Solomon Foster]

Hi Ralph,

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:22 PM Ralph Palmer 
wrote:

> Please take a look at the collection I've done of fiddle tunes for viola,
> and let me know if it looks like what you want. I'm on a long road trip,
> and won't have access to my computer for another month, but I think I can
> access my LY files, and, if not, I should be able to explain what I did.
> You can download the PDFs of my collection at :
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1euNCa3b7xbmr8lDaUubwc5O1h31_bBaQ
>
> Yes!  I mean, it's not the exact formatting I'd like to use, but it looks
like you've solved the putting centered text under the tunes, not breaking
them across pages, and having an index.  That's most of the major issues
I'm worried about.  I'd love to see your LY files to see how you are doing
this.

Thanks so much,
Sol

PS It's so trippy seeing tunes I know in alto clef!

-- 
Solomon Foster: colo...@gmail.com
HarmonyWare, Inc: http://www.harmonyware.com

Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Ralph Palmer]

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 11:16 AM Solomon Foster  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been using Lilypond to render fiddle tunes for nearly a decade now,
> and I'm looking at taking the next step -- namely making a proper, large
> scale tunebook with it.  While the book I'm working on right now has
> hundreds of tunes, it's not mine to redistribute, so I've put together a
> quick PDF with some of my own tunes so you can get the idea what sort of
> music I'm talking about: http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/chunes.pdf
>
> As usual, every time I try to do something new in Lilypond I butt up
> against the limits of my skills there, and finding what I'm looking for in
> the manuals or snippets only works about half the time.  As such, I thought
> I'd try to post the things stumping me at the moment, and hope someone out
> there has prior art to share or some clever solutions.
>
> 0) Has anyone out there done something like this before?  All the examples
> seem to be big classic music or choral works.  I'd love to have a prior
> example that I could raid for "how to do it" ideas.
>
> 1) How do I stop Lilypond from breaking a \score (one tune) across pages
> just to cram more tunes in the same amount of paper?  That is, splitting a
> \score that requires 2+ pages is fine with me, but I'd rather not start a
> one-page \score at the bottom of one page and finish it on the top of the
> next.
>
> 2) Right now I'm getting the text that goes after a tune by using
> \markuplist and \wordwrap-lines after the related score is complete.  I'd
> love to have a way to let Lilypond know that the \markuplist is logically
> attached to the prior \score.  (If putting it in the actual score is the
> best approach, I'm fine with that, I just haven't been able to figure out
> how to do it.)
>
> 3) I'd also like to be able to add blocks of lyrics after the end of a
> tune which (again) logically attach to the tune.  Right now I've got a
> hacky implementation using \markuplist \column-lines \italic and \line
> which just comes after the \score (like point 2 above), but I'd like to be
> able to ident the lines a bit (or maybe center them?) as well, and all my
> attempts to do so have been laughable failures.  (Seriously, why did my
> attempt to center result in half of each line disappearing!?)
>
> 4) I saw information on creating a table of contents (though I haven't
> tried it yet).  I'm having trouble finding anything on creating an index?
> Given 200+ short tunes, that's probably much more useful, IMO.
>
> Thanks in advance for any and all help,
> Sol
>
> --
> Solomon Foster: colo...@gmail.com
> HarmonyWare, Inc: http://www.harmonyware.com
>

Hi, Sol -

Please take a look at the collection I've done of fiddle tunes for viola,
and let me know if it looks like what you want. I'm on a long road trip,
and won't have access to my computer for another month, but I think I can
access my LY files, and, if not, I should be able to explain what I did.
You can download the PDFs of my collection at :
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1euNCa3b7xbmr8lDaUubwc5O1h31_bBaQ

All the best,

Ralph

>

Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

> Am 2019-10-29 um 18:34 schrieb Mike Kilmer :
> 
> I did something along these lines a couple of years ago using something 
> called lytex, which if I recall correctly sort of combines Tex typesetting 
> with Lilypond.
> 
> There’s also something called lilypond-book, but I think that’s more for 
> including small clips of music within text.

Both LyTeX and lilypond-book are based on LaTeX. (Arara is build tool for 
LaTeX.)
I’m quite sure lilypond-book is well suited for songbooks and the like.

Since I’m using ConTeXt (a not as widespread, but more modern variety of TeX 
and the main reason for LuaTeX), I do my songbooks with ConTeXt and a setup for 
its "filter" module (that you can use to call any external program).
See https://wiki.contextgarden.net/LilyPond

My approach to include notes in my TeX documents is similar to LyLuaTeX: There, 
LuaLaTeX calls LilyPond at runtime, while lilypond-book is a preprocessor.

All these approaches finally include notes (snippets, lines or whole pages) 
from LilyPond as images in TeX documents, and you’re free to use all features 
of TeX, e.g. for lyrics, ToCs or bibliography. 
E.g. I’m using the index features to get a table of contents sorted by names 
and/or first line of lyrics.

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
https://www.fiee.net

Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 10/29/19 1:14 PM, Solomon Foster wrote:

I've been using Lilypond to render fiddle tunes for nearly a decade
now, and I'm looking at taking the next step -- namely making a
proper, large scale tunebook with it.  While the book I'm working on
right now has hundreds of tunes, it's not mine to redistribute, so
I've put together a quick PDF with some of my own tunes so you can
get the idea what sort of music I'm talking about:
http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/chunes.pdf


Pretty sure I’ve answered this question on this list before...

For each individual tune, I have one file (tunename_tune.ly) which only 
defines variables, and a wrapper (tunename.ly) which makes a PDF and a 
MIDI using those variables.  Then I have a big wrapper (tunebook.ly) 
which includes all the tunename_tune.ly files and makes a book out of them.


The important part is to have files for each tune that define all the 
info but which don’t actually *do* anything.  That gives you the 
flexibility to do different things with that info in different contexts.


I have a helper file called tunes.ly which handles layout and making a 
MIDI of a dozen instruments playing in unison.


Concretely, below is one tune file, one one-tune layout file, and an 
excerpt from the tune book.


(To make this all more complicated, I actually generate the one-tune 
layout wrapper and the book from a master XML file, but this could all 
be done manually, and I did for a while till the OCD took hold. (-: )


=-=-= kesh_tune.ly =-=-=

\version "2.18.0"
\include "english.ly"
% layout has the printed version with repeats etc.
keshLayout = {
  <<
\chords { ... }
\new Staff <<
   ...
>>
  >>
}
% full chords is unfolded chords
keshFullChords = { ... }
% full tune is the unfolded melody
keshFullTune = { ... }

=-=-= kesh.ly =-=-=

\version "2.18.0"
\include "kesh_tune.ly"
theArranger = "arr. Mallinson, Maden"
theComposer = ##f
theFullChords = \keshFullChords
theFullTune = \keshFullTune
theLayout = \keshLayout
theSubtitle =
\markup {
  \tiny {
\medium {
  \italic {
\center-column {
  "The Castle; Kerrigan’s; The Kesh Mountain; The Kincora; The 
Mountaineer’s March"

}
  }
}
  }
}
theTempo = #(ly:make-moment 420/8)
theTitle = "The Kesh"
\include "tunes.ly"

=-=-= crism_tunes.ly =-=-=

\version "2.16.2"
#(set-default-paper-size "letter")
\paper {
  bottom-margin = 0.5\in
  left-margin = 0.75\in
  line-width = 7.25\in
  print-all-headers = ##t
  right-margin = 0.5\in
  top-margin = 0.5\in
}
\include "kesh_tune.ly"
\book {
  \header {
title = "crism’s tunes"
  }
  \markuplist \table-of-contents
  \bookpart {
\tocItem \markup {
  \bold "Jigs"
}
\header {
  title = "Jigs"
}
\tocItem \markup { \hspace #2 "The Kesh" }
\label #'kesh
\score {
  \keshLayout
  \header {
arranger = "arr. Mallinson, Maden"
subtitle =
\markup {
  \tiny {
\medium {
  \italic {
\center-column {
  "The Castle; Kerrigan’s; The Kesh Mountain; The 
Kincora; The Mountaineer’s March"

}
  }
}
  }
}
title =
\markup {
  \large {
"The Kesh"
  }
}
  }
  \layout {}
}
  }
}

=-=-=-=-=-=

And if you care, some of the relevant XML:



  crism’s tunes
  

  The Kesh
  The Castle
  Kerrigan’s
  The Kesh
Mountain
  The Kincora
  The Mountaineer’s
March
  

  
Dave
Mallinson
  

  
  

  
Chris
Maden
  

  

  


~Chris
--
Chris Maden, text nerd & chanteyman
http://crism.maden.org/ >
http://music.maden.org/ >
“Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me...” — Emma Lazarus

Re: Doing A Fiddle Tunebook in Lilypond

[Mike Kilmer]

Hi Sol.

Looks great!

I did something along these lines a couple of years ago using something called 
lytex, which if I recall correctly sort of combines Tex typesetting with 
Lilypond.

You can check out the main file (and entire codebase) here: 
https://github.com/MikeiLL/hymnal-Vol-II/blob/master/lilypond/hymnal.lytex 
.

I forget what I was using Arara for, but I think that the way I have it set up 
Arara needs to be configured on your rendering computer to render the tex file 
and then that compiles.

There’s also something called lilypond-book, but I think that’s more for 
including small clips of music within text.

Mike
https://www.CenterOfWow.com







> On Oct 29, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Solomon Foster  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been using Lilypond to render fiddle tunes for nearly a decade now, and 
> I'm looking at taking the next step -- namely making a proper, large scale 
> tunebook with it.  While the book I'm working on right now has hundreds of 
> tunes, it's not mine to redistribute, so I've put together a quick PDF with 
> some of my own tunes so you can get the idea what sort of music I'm talking 
> about: http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/chunes.pdf 
> 
> 
> As usual, every time I try to do something new in Lilypond I butt up against 
> the limits of my skills there, and finding what I'm looking for in the 
> manuals or snippets only works about half the time.  As such, I thought I'd 
> try to post the things stumping me at the moment, and hope someone out there 
> has prior art to share or some clever solutions.
> 
> 0) Has anyone out there done something like this before?  All the examples 
> seem to be big classic music or choral works.  I'd love to have a prior 
> example that I could raid for "how to do it" ideas.
> 
> 1) How do I stop Lilypond from breaking a \score (one tune) across pages just 
> to cram more tunes in the same amount of paper?  That is, splitting a \score 
> that requires 2+ pages is fine with me, but I'd rather not start a one-page 
> \score at the bottom of one page and finish it on the top of the next.
> 
> 2) Right now I'm getting the text that goes after a tune by using \markuplist 
> and \wordwrap-lines after the related score is complete.  I'd love to have a 
> way to let Lilypond know that the \markuplist is logically attached to the 
> prior \score.  (If putting it in the actual score is the best approach, I'm 
> fine with that, I just haven't been able to figure out how to do it.)
> 
> 3) I'd also like to be able to add blocks of lyrics after the end of a tune 
> which (again) logically attach to the tune.  Right now I've got a hacky 
> implementation using \markuplist \column-lines \italic and \line which just 
> comes after the \score (like point 2 above), but I'd like to be able to ident 
> the lines a bit (or maybe center them?) as well, and all my attempts to do so 
> have been laughable failures.  (Seriously, why did my attempt to center 
> result in half of each line disappearing!?)
> 
> 4) I saw information on creating a table of contents (though I haven't tried 
> it yet).  I'm having trouble finding anything on creating an index?  Given 
> 200+ short tunes, that's probably much more useful, IMO.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any and all help,
> Sol
> 
> -- 
> Solomon Foster: colo...@gmail.com 
> HarmonyWare, Inc: http://www.harmonyware.com