Re: Generating a spiccato

[Ralph Palmer]

On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 10:35 PM Jacques Menu  wrote:

> Hello Werner,
>
> Thanks for the clarification!
>
> JM
>
> > Le 13 juil. 2022 à 16:40, Werner LEMBERG  a écrit :
> >
> >
> >>> In MusixXML, this sign is  (The  element |
> >>> MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org)
> >>> <
> https://www.w3.org/2021/06/musicxml40/musicxml-reference/elements/spiccato/
> >),
> >>> the same sign is named \staccatissimo in Lilypond.
> >>> In MusixXML,  looks like this:  (The 
> >>> element | MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org)
> >>> <
> https://www.w3.org/2021/06/musicxml40/musicxml-reference/elements/staccatissimo/
> >),
> >>> but it seems there is no corresponding articulation in Lilypond and no
> >>> glyph in the Emmentaler font.
> >>>
> >>> So the question is: is there interest among the LilyPond community to
> >>> add the latter glyph in some way?
> >
> > I consider the distinction between these two glyphs completely
> > arbitrary.  At normal size, the difference between a concave and a
> > convex top is not really visible.
> >
> > If you look at
> >
> >  https://w3c.github.io/smufl/latest/tables/articulation.html
> >
> > you can see that both glyph shapes in question are defined as variants
> > of 'staccatissimo' – for spiccato, there doesn't exist a symbol.  And
> > rightly so: I've never seen a symbol for spiccato except an ordinary
> > staccato point with the word 'spicc.' (if at all).
> >
> >
> > Werner
>
>
>
My apologies - I haven't been paying attention, and I don't know where my
head was at. I think it's important that spiccato is a bowing technique,
and staccato is an articulation (a quality of sound) which can be
accomplished through spiccato (and, depending on the circumstances, other
bowing techniques). Also, I would imagine that staccato is possible on
instruments on which spiccato is impossible : flute, guitar, maybe piano?

All the best,

Ralph

-- 
Ralph Palmer
Seattle
USA
(he, him, his)
palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com

Re: Generating a spiccato

[Jacques Menu]

Hello Werner,

Thanks for the clarification!

JM

> Le 13 juil. 2022 à 16:40, Werner LEMBERG  a écrit :
> 
> 
>>> In MusixXML, this sign is  (The  element |
>>> MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org)
>>> ),
>>> the same sign is named \staccatissimo in Lilypond.
>>> In MusixXML,  looks like this:  (The 
>>> element | MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org)
>>> ),
>>> but it seems there is no corresponding articulation in Lilypond and no
>>> glyph in the Emmentaler font.
>>> 
>>> So the question is: is there interest among the LilyPond community to
>>> add the latter glyph in some way?
> 
> I consider the distinction between these two glyphs completely
> arbitrary.  At normal size, the difference between a concave and a
> convex top is not really visible.
> 
> If you look at
> 
>  https://w3c.github.io/smufl/latest/tables/articulation.html
> 
> you can see that both glyph shapes in question are defined as variants
> of 'staccatissimo' – for spiccato, there doesn't exist a symbol.  And
> rightly so: I've never seen a symbol for spiccato except an ordinary
> staccato point with the word 'spicc.' (if at all).
> 
> 
> Werner

Re: Generating a spiccato

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> In MusixXML, this sign is  (The  element |
>> MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org)
>> ),
>> the same sign is named \staccatissimo in Lilypond.
>> In MusixXML,  looks like this:  (The 
>> element | MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org)
>> ),
>> but it seems there is no corresponding articulation in Lilypond and no
>> glyph in the Emmentaler font.
>>
>> So the question is: is there interest among the LilyPond community to
>> add the latter glyph in some way?

I consider the distinction between these two glyphs completely
arbitrary.  At normal size, the difference between a concave and a
convex top is not really visible.

If you look at

  https://w3c.github.io/smufl/latest/tables/articulation.html

you can see that both glyph shapes in question are defined as variants
of 'staccatissimo' – for spiccato, there doesn't exist a symbol.  And
rightly so: I've never seen a symbol for spiccato except an ordinary
staccato point with the word 'spicc.' (if at all).


 Werner

Re: Generating a spiccato

[Jean Abou Samra]

Le 13/07/2022 à 11:45, Jacques Menu a écrit :

Hello folks,

Here is the info I’ve been supplied with about this:
In MusixXML, this sign is  (The  element | 
MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org) 
), 
the same sign is named \staccatissimo in Lilypond.
In MusixXML,  looks like this:  (The  
element | MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org) 
), 
but it seems there is no corresponding articulation in Lilypond and no 
glyph in the Emmentaler font.


So the question is: is there interest among the LilyPond community to 
add the latter glyph in some way?





The question isn't whether people at large would like to have this.
It is whether someone (one person is enough) has both the motivation
and the competence to implement it :-)

How about raising it as a feature request on the bug-lilypond
list? See
https://lilypond.org/bug-reports.fr.html

Best,
Jean

Re: Generating a spiccato

[Jacques Menu]

Hello folks,

Here is the info I’ve been supplied with about this:
In MusixXML, this sign  is  (The  element | MusicXML 4.0 
(w3.org) 
), 
the same sign is named \staccatissimo in Lilypond. 
In MusixXML,  looks like this:  (The  element | 
MusicXML 4.0 (w3.org) 
),
 but it seems there is no corresponding articulation in Lilypond and no glyph 
in the Emmentaler font.

So the question is: is there interest among the LilyPond community to add the 
latter glyph in some way?

JM

Re: Generating a spiccato

[Jacques Menu]

Hello Siomon & Hans,

I have to ask the person who suggested that xml2ly should generate spiccatos 
what they’d like them to look like.

Thanks for your answers!

JM

> Le 28 juin 2022 à 01:03, Simon Albrecht  a écrit :
> 
> Hi Jacques,
> 
> On 27/06/2022 22:13, Jacques Menu wrote:
>> Does anyone know of some way to generate spiccato articulations in the 
>> scores produced by Lily?
> 
> 
> what would you expect that to look like?
> 
> { a'4-! }
> 
> maybe?
> 
> Best, Simon
> 

Re: Generating a spiccato

[Simon Albrecht]

Hi Jacques,

On 27/06/2022 22:13, Jacques Menu wrote:

Does anyone know of some way to generate spiccato articulations in the scores 
produced by Lily?



what would you expect that to look like?

{ a'4-! }

maybe?

Best, Simon

Re: Generating a spiccato

[Hans Aikema]

> On 27 Jun 2022, at 22:28, Jacques Menu  wrote:
> 
> Hello folks,
> 
> Does anyone know of some way to generate spiccato articulations in the scores 
> produced by Lily?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> JM

Google leads me to 
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Bow-Strokes-Spiccato-From-Milanovs-First-Violin-Lessons-1981-Volume-II-tema-VII_fig27_256198538
 which makes me think you could use the staccato for notating the spiccato?