Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-02 Thread Libero Mureddu 

Pretty basic really. If you figure out a way to get the point and click
thing working with TexShop I would appreciate hearing about it.
I'm not an expert, but I don't think it is possible because point and 
click works with the ".dvi" file, but I couldn't find any dvi reader 
that works natively on mac os x, except macdvi or macdvix , but they 
aren't free.
I don't know if Jdvi (the dvi viewer inside jedit) can work as a 
standalone application.
Personally, I like xdvi (never had problem with font, fast etc.) on X11
libero
Walter Hofmeister

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Libero Mureddu
Vanha Viertotie, 21 As. 429
00350 Helsinki - Finlandia
Tel. +358-9-5808429
Mob. +358-41-7702668
Via Abbiati, 4
20148 Milano - Italia
Tel. +39-02-4075953
Mob. +39-339-8757587

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-02 Thread Walter Hofmeister 
On 3/2/05 10:30 AM, "Kieren Richard MacMillan"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi, Walter:
> 
>> Another editor that I have enjoyed for quite some time now is TeXShop.
> 
> I use TeXShop on OS X for my mathematics typesetting -- I agree that
> it's quite a good app.
> 
> What are the steps I need to perform (if any) to prepare it for
> Lilypond editing? Sounds like that would be much easier than the way
> I'm doing it now (SubEthaEdit + CLI commands)!
> 
> Thanks,
> Kieren.
> 
Hi Kieren,
I don't have anything special set except that in the preferences there
is a setting under the "Preview" tab to set "Automatic Preview Update".
I still use the CLI (terminal) to invoke Lilypond, but as I use tcsh,
all I need to do is hit the 'up arrow' key to invoke the last command. So
the way this works for me is as follows:

Launch TeXShop and open your .ly file. Save file to a directory.

Launch the Terminal app and navigate to the directory where your .ly file
resides (I do this by typing "cd "[space after the cd] and switching to the
Finder, open a window and get to the directory{I have a shortcut set up for
this so I can get to where I store my music files in one click of the
mouse.} Drag the folder containing your .ly file to the terminal window and
the path will be entered for you) This sounds more involved than it really
is.

Type the command to invoke Lilypond: eg. Lilypond theFile.ly

Switch to TexShop and open the .pdf file.

>From now on you can edit the file, click on the Terminal window (use
"command-tab"), hit the up arrow key, click on the window containing the
.pdf and wait for the window to be updated.

Repeat until you are satisfied with the results.


Pretty basic really. If you figure out a way to get the point and click
thing working with TexShop I would appreciate hearing about it.

Walter Hofmeister




___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-02 Thread Kieren Richard MacMillan 
Hi, Walter:
Another editor that I have enjoyed for quite some time now is TeXShop.
I use TeXShop on OS X for my mathematics typesetting -- I agree that 
it's quite a good app.

What are the steps I need to perform (if any) to prepare it for 
Lilypond editing? Sounds like that would be much easier than the way 
I'm doing it now (SubEthaEdit + CLI commands)!

Thanks,
Kieren.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-02 Thread Walter Hofmeister 
On 3/2/05 5:14 AM, "Libero Mureddu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What is slow?
> typing, performing operation like run lily, etc.
> Because also on my computer is quite slow in launching and opening the
> windows, but not impossible to use, I thought was because  of Java.
> That's why I prefer to use emacs, I never felt very confortable with
> jedit on my mac, because of that slowness.
> BTW, there is also a version of emacs that run natively on macosx
> without x11, something called like "carbon emacs", I'll try the next
> days and I'll tell you how it works.
> 
> libero
>
Another editor that I have enjoyed for quite some time now is TeXShop. There
is a native OS X version availlable and it can view PDF files as well. I run
TeXShop and terminal and am able to be quite efficient with it as TexShop
will watch the .pdf file and redisplay it as it is updated much like gv
under X11. Also usefull if you use LaTex.
I have not been able to get "point and click" to work but to be honest I
haven't tried too hard. I work mostly on small files and have gotten into
the habit of commenting the files for bar numbers so it isn't that hard to
find your way around the file.

Cheers
Walter Hofmeister




___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-02 Thread Bertalan Fodor 
Libero Mureddu írta:
What is slow?
typing, performing operation like run lily, etc.
Because also on my computer is quite slow in launching and opening the 
windows, but not impossible to use, I thought was because  of Java. 
That's why I prefer to use emacs, I never felt very confortable with 
jedit on my mac, because of that slowness.
I'm very sad that it is slow on Mac. It may be the Java Runtime. On 
Windows and Linux it is not slow.

Bert
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-02 Thread Libero Mureddu 
What is slow?
typing, performing operation like run lily, etc.
Because also on my computer is quite slow in launching and opening the 
windows, but not impossible to use, I thought was because  of Java. 
That's why I prefer to use emacs, I never felt very confortable with 
jedit on my mac, because of that slowness.
BTW, there is also a version of emacs that run natively on macosx 
without x11, something called like "carbon emacs", I'll try the next 
days and I'll tell you how it works.

libero
Il giorno 01/mar/05, alle 19:53, Chris Sawer ha scritto:
For some reason, jedit's really slow on my Mac (1GHz iBook G4, 512Mb 
RAM, OS X 10.3.8). Even with the syntax completion features turned 
off, lily4jedit is not really useable. Does anyone else have this? Any 
ideas? I've tried increasing the amount of memory given to the Java 
interpreter, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference...

Chris
On 1 Mar 2005, at 09:58, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
And my idea was that a copy of jedit with lilypond preinstalled
might be a good candidate to include in this environment. :-)
   /Mats

Libero Mureddu
Vanha Viertotie, 21 As. 429
00350 Helsinki - Finlandia
Tel. +358-9-5808429
Mob. +358-41-7702668
Via Abbiati, 4
20148 Milano - Italia
Tel. +39-02-4075953
Mob. +39-339-8757587

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-01 Thread Chris Sawer 
For some reason, jedit's really slow on my Mac (1GHz iBook G4, 512Mb 
RAM, OS X 10.3.8). Even with the syntax completion features turned off, 
lily4jedit is not really useable. Does anyone else have this? Any 
ideas? I've tried increasing the amount of memory given to the Java 
interpreter, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference...

Chris
On 1 Mar 2005, at 09:58, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
And my idea was that a copy of jedit with lilypond preinstalled
might be a good candidate to include in this environment. :-)
   /Mats

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-03-01 Thread Mats Bengtsson 
And my idea was that a copy of jedit with lilypond preinstalled
might be a good candidate to include in this environment. :-)
   /Mats
Libero Mureddu wrote:
Il giorno 28/feb/05, alle 13:17, Mats Bengtsson ha scritto:
Take a look at the text editor jedit, which has very good support
for LilyPond, see
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/ 
Editor-support.html

Thanks, but I know and use jedit, my suggestion was about creating an  
environment that doesn't need any external software, thinking to the  
the "lazy" mac user :-)
libero

  /Mats
Libero Mureddu wrote:
Hi!
In my impression lilypond.app should be like MacCsound  
(www.csounds.com/matt/MacCsound), Csound is a text environment for  
electronic music, it runs on a command line, but the version for mac  
provides a very simple text editor ready for syntax, correction of  
mistakes and some GUI elements (that lily doesn't need), and the  
binary is catched inside the "app" package.
So, my suggestion is: why don't give a package that contains a VERY  
simple and light (but useful for lily) text editor and a series of  
button for the main operations (run lily, start pdf viewer, midi  etc).
I'm thinking to avoid the problem of downloading a text editor,  
setting it to lily mode, to be full of instruction a bit cryptical  
(for the musician).
I've finished a html version of the installation instruction for mac  
x with the corrections that some users nicely sent to me. It is 
based  on the macos page on the lily website
Let me know if is it ok.
Ciao
Libero
-- 
--
Home  
Introduction   About  
 [Download]  
 Documentation  
 Development  

[MacOS X] 
 Windows  
 First 
use  
 
User help  
-- 
--
  LilyPond on MacOS X
Requirements:
* Download and install X11, Apple XCode and X11SDK
* Download and install Fink
* If necessary, enable unstable tree
* Be connected to internet
* Know your administrator password
1) Install X11
Install X11 from Panther's third cd or downloading from Apple  
website: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/
You will need an Apple ID, see next section.
2) Install Apple XCode
*  Go to http://connect.apple.com
* Follow the instructions to get a free online membership to Apple
  Developer Connection
* Download the Xcode Tools 1.5 - CD Image
* Install Xcode and the X11SDK.pkg
3) Install Fink
*  From http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/index.php download  the
  Binary Installer.
Briefly, Fink is a software that allows you to easily install  
software originally developed on linux environment, to Mac OS X; 
this  software is already modifyied (ported) in order to run on 
Macintosh.
Fink will install itself and all the software in a new folder alled  
"sw"If you want to move the /sw folder to another position, check:
http://homepage.mac.com/sao1/fink/how.html
If you don't know nothing about linux, terminal etc, two goods  
starting point are http://www.gnu.org, to understand why lilypond is  
a free software and what this means, and
http://www.osxfaq.com/Tutorials/LearningCenter/index.ws, to  
understand how to use the terminal.
4) Fink or FinkCommander
FinkCommander is provided together with Fink, and it is a graphic  
interface to use Fink.
After you have installed Fink, remember to give, from the terminal,  
the following commands:
"fink selfupdate" and "fink update-all"
or with FinkCommander,
menu "Source -> selfupdate-rsync" and
menu "Source -> Update-all
5) Stable-Unstable tree
To enable unstable tree and use the developers version, with a text  
editor edit /sw/etc/fink.conf and add "unstable/crypto 
unstable/main"  to the "Trees" line.
You need to open it with administrator privileges. Ex "sudo pico  
/sw/etc/fink.conf"
 >From FinkCommander's preferences -> Fink, you can enable unstable  
and crypto packages.
6) Install Lilypond
*  From the terminal, type "fink install lilypond" or "fink  install
  lilypond-unstable" if you
  want to use developer version.
Fink will install also libraries and other software required.
If you need to continue to work it is better that you give the  
following command: "nice fink install lilypond", the compilation 
will  be done at a lower priority than any other operation.
After the download, starts the compilation stage: at the first  
insta

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-28 Thread Libero Mureddu 
Il giorno 28/feb/05, alle 13:17, Mats Bengtsson ha scritto:
Take a look at the text editor jedit, which has very good support
for LilyPond, see
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/ 
Editor-support.html

Thanks, but I know and use jedit, my suggestion was about creating an  
environment that doesn't need any external software, thinking to the  
the "lazy" mac user :-)
libero
  /Mats
Libero Mureddu wrote:
Hi!
In my impression lilypond.app should be like MacCsound  
(www.csounds.com/matt/MacCsound), Csound is a text environment for  
electronic music, it runs on a command line, but the version for mac  
provides a very simple text editor ready for syntax, correction of  
mistakes and some GUI elements (that lily doesn't need), and the  
binary is catched inside the "app" package.
So, my suggestion is: why don't give a package that contains a VERY  
simple and light (but useful for lily) text editor and a series of  
button for the main operations (run lily, start pdf viewer, midi  
etc).
I'm thinking to avoid the problem of downloading a text editor,  
setting it to lily mode, to be full of instruction a bit cryptical  
(for the musician).
I've finished a html version of the installation instruction for mac  
x with the corrections that some users nicely sent to me. It is based  
on the macos page on the lily website
Let me know if is it ok.
Ciao
Libero
-- 
--
	Home  			Introduction  
 			About  
 			[Download]  
 			Documentation  
 			Development  
 	
	[MacOS X]  			Windows  
 			First use  
 			User help  
 	
-- 
--
  LilyPond on MacOS X
Requirements:
* Download and install X11, Apple XCode and X11SDK
* Download and install Fink
* If necessary, enable unstable tree
* Be connected to internet
* Know your administrator password
1) Install X11
Install X11 from Panther's third cd or downloading from Apple  
website: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/
You will need an Apple ID, see next section.
2) Install Apple XCode
*  Go to http://connect.apple.com
* Follow the instructions to get a free online membership to Apple
  Developer Connection
* Download the Xcode Tools 1.5 - CD Image
* Install Xcode and the X11SDK.pkg
3) Install Fink
*  From http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/index.php download  
the
  Binary Installer.
Briefly, Fink is a software that allows you to easily install  
software originally developed on linux environment, to Mac OS X; this  
software is already modifyied (ported) in order to run on Macintosh.
Fink will install itself and all the software in a new folder alled  
"sw"If you want to move the /sw folder to another position, check:
http://homepage.mac.com/sao1/fink/how.html
If you don't know nothing about linux, terminal etc, two goods  
starting point are http://www.gnu.org, to understand why lilypond is  
a free software and what this means, and
http://www.osxfaq.com/Tutorials/LearningCenter/index.ws, to  
understand how to use the terminal.
4) Fink or FinkCommander
FinkCommander is provided together with Fink, and it is a graphic  
interface to use Fink.
After you have installed Fink, remember to give, from the terminal,  
the following commands:
"fink selfupdate" and "fink update-all"
or with FinkCommander,
menu "Source -> selfupdate-rsync" and
menu "Source -> Update-all
5) Stable-Unstable tree
To enable unstable tree and use the developers version, with a text  
editor edit /sw/etc/fink.conf and add "unstable/crypto unstable/main"  
to the "Trees" line.
You need to open it with administrator privileges. Ex "sudo pico  
/sw/etc/fink.conf"
 >From FinkCommander's preferences -> Fink, you can enable unstable  
and crypto packages.
6) Install Lilypond
*  From the terminal, type "fink install lilypond" or "fink  
install
  lilypond-unstable" if you
  want to use developer version.
Fink will install also libraries and other software required.
If you need to continue to work it is better that you give the  
following command: "nice fink install lilypond", the compilation will  
be done at a lower priority than any other operation.
After the download, starts the compilation stage: at the first  
installation on lilypond it can takes quite long time it depends on  
the machine. It can be one hour or more.
At the end of this stage a message within the terminal will inform you
that lilypond has been succesfully installed.
7) First test

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-28 Thread Mats Bengtsson 
Take a look at the text editor jedit, which has very good support
for LilyPond, see
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Editor-support.html
  /Mats
Libero Mureddu wrote:
Hi!
In my impression lilypond.app should be like MacCsound 
(www.csounds.com/matt/MacCsound), Csound is a text environment for 
electronic music, it runs on a command line, but the version for mac 
provides a very simple text editor ready for syntax, correction of 
mistakes and some GUI elements (that lily doesn't need), and the binary 
is catched inside the "app" package.
So, my suggestion is: why don't give a package that contains a VERY 
simple and light (but useful for lily) text editor and a series of 
button for the main operations (run lily, start pdf viewer, midi etc).
I'm thinking to avoid the problem of downloading a text editor, setting 
it to lily mode, to be full of instruction a bit cryptical (for the 
musician).

I've finished a html version of the installation instruction for mac x 
with the corrections that some users nicely sent to me. It is based on 
the macos page on the lily website
Let me know if is it ok.
Ciao

Libero

	Home  			Introduction 
 			About 
 			[Download] 
 			Documentation 
 			Development 
 	

	[MacOS X]  			Windows 
 			First use 
 			User help 
 	


  LilyPond on MacOS X
Requirements:
* Download and install X11, Apple XCode and X11SDK
* Download and install Fink
* If necessary, enable unstable tree
* Be connected to internet
* Know your administrator password
1) Install X11
Install X11 from Panther's third cd or downloading from Apple website: 
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/
You will need an Apple ID, see next section.

2) Install Apple XCode
*  Go to http://connect.apple.com
* Follow the instructions to get a free online membership to Apple
  Developer Connection
* Download the Xcode Tools 1.5 - CD Image
* Install Xcode and the X11SDK.pkg
3) Install Fink
*  From http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/index.php download the
  Binary Installer.
Briefly, Fink is a software that allows you to easily install software 
originally developed on linux environment, to Mac OS X; this software is 
already modifyied (ported) in order to run on Macintosh.

Fink will install itself and all the software in a new folder alled 
"sw"If you want to move the /sw folder to another position, check:
http://homepage.mac.com/sao1/fink/how.html

If you don't know nothing about linux, terminal etc, two goods starting 
point are http://www.gnu.org, to understand why lilypond is a free 
software and what this means, and
http://www.osxfaq.com/Tutorials/LearningCenter/index.ws, to understand 
how to use the terminal.

4) Fink or FinkCommander
FinkCommander is provided together with Fink, and it is a graphic 
interface to use Fink.

After you have installed Fink, remember to give, from the terminal, the 
following commands:

"fink selfupdate" and 
"fink update-all"

or with FinkCommander,
menu "Source -> selfupdate-rsync" and
menu "Source -> Update-all
5) Stable-Unstable tree
To enable unstable tree and use the developers version, with a text 
editor edit /sw/etc/fink.conf and add "unstable/crypto unstable/main" to 
the "Trees" line.
You need to open it with administrator privileges. Ex "sudo pico 
/sw/etc/fink.conf"

 >From FinkCommander's preferences -> Fink, you can enable unstable and 
crypto packages.

6) Install Lilypond
*  From the terminal, type "fink install lilypond" or "fink install
  lilypond-unstable" if you
  want to use developer version.
Fink will install also libraries and other software required.
If you need to continue to work it is better that you give the following 
command: "nice fink install lilypond", the compilation will be done at a 
lower priority than any other operation.

After the download, starts the compilation stage: at the first 
installation on lilypond it can takes quite long time it depends on the 
machine. It can be one hour or more.

At the end of this stage a message within the terminal will inform you
that lilypond has been succesfully installed.
7) First test
* Open TextEdit
* Check uf the new file is called "untitled.txt" otherwhise go to
  Preferences and select the "text only" feature, and uncheck the
  options "Append .txt extension to plain text files".

In the image, you can see how your preferences

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-28 Thread Libero Mureddu 
Hi!
In my impression lilypond.app should be like MacCsound 
(www.csounds.com/matt/MacCsound), Csound is a text environment for 
electronic music, it runs on a command line, but the version for mac 
provides a very simple text editor ready for syntax, correction of 
mistakes and some GUI elements (that lily doesn't need), and the binary 
is catched inside the "app" package.
So, my suggestion is: why don't give a package that contains a VERY 
simple and light (but useful for lily) text editor and a series of 
button for the main operations (run lily, start pdf viewer, midi etc).
I'm thinking to avoid the problem of downloading a text editor, setting 
it to lily mode, to be full of instruction a bit cryptical (for the 
musician).

I've finished a html version of the installation instruction for mac x 
with the corrections that some users nicely sent to me. It is based on 
the macos page on the lily website
Let me know if is it ok.
Ciao

LiberoTitle: LilyPond - on MacOS X






  

  
  Home
  
  
  Introduction
  
  
  About
  
  
  [Download]
  
  
  Documentation
  
  
  Development
  

  


  

  

  


  

  

  


  

  
  [MacOS X]
  
  
  Windows
  
  
  First use
  
  
  User help
  

  




LilyPond on MacOS X
Requirements:


  Download and install X11, Apple XCode and X11SDK 
  Download and install Fink
  If necessary, enable unstable tree
  Be connected to internet
  Know your administrator password


1) Install X11
Install X11 from Panther's third cd or downloading from Apple website: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/
You will need an Apple ID, see next section.

2) Install Apple XCode

   Go to http://connect.apple.com
  Follow the instructions to get a free online membership to Apple
Developer Connection
  Download the Xcode Tools 1.5 - CD Image
  Install Xcode and the X11SDK.pkg


3) Install Fink

  From http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/index.php
download the Binary Installer.

Briefly, Fink is a software that allows you to easily install software
originally developed on linux environment, to Mac OS X; this software
is already modifyied (ported) in order to run on Macintosh.

Fink will install itself and all the software in a new folder alled
"sw"If you want to move the /sw folder to another position, check:
http://homepage.mac.com/sao1/fink/how.html

If you don't know nothing about linux, terminal etc, two goods starting
point are http://www.gnu.org, to
understand why lilypond is a free software and what this means, and
http://www.osxfaq.com/Tutorials/LearningCenter/index.ws,
to understand how to use the terminal.
4) Fink or FinkCommander
FinkCommander is provided together with Fink, and it is a graphic
interface to use Fink.
After you have installed Fink, remember to give, from the terminal,
the following commands:
"fink selfupdate" and  
"fink update-all"
or with FinkCommander,
menu "Source -> selfupdate-rsync" and
menu "Source -> Update-all
5) Stable-Unstable tree
To enable unstable tree and use the developers version, with a text
editor edit /sw/etc/fink.conf and add "unstable/crypto unstable/main"
to the "Trees" line.
You need to open it with administrator privileges. Ex "sudo pico
/sw/etc/fink.conf"

>From FinkCommander's preferences -> Fink, you can enable unstable
and crypto packages.


6) Install Lilypond

  From the terminal, type "fink install lilypond" or "fink install
lilypond-unstable" if you
want to use developer version.

Fink will install also libraries and other software required.
If you need to continue to work it is better that you give the
following command: "nice fink install lilypond", the compilation will
be done at a lower priority than any other operation.
After the download, starts the compilation stage: at the first
installation on lilypond it can takes quite long time it depends on the
machine. It can be one hour or more.
At the end of this stage a message within the terminal will inform
you
that lilypond has been succesfully installed.

7) First test

  Open TextEdit
  Check uf the new file is called "untitled.txt" otherwhise go to
Preferences and select the "text only" feature, and uncheck the options
"Append .txt extension to plain text files".



In the image, you can see how your preferences should appear.
This is because lilypond need text-only file (usually they are with the
extension .txt) but with the .ly extension.

  Write the following line:

{ c'4 e' g' }

  save it to the desktop with the name foo.ly
  Open the terminal and type: lilypond Desktop/foo.ly and press
enter
  After the process is finished, go to your desktop and you will
find various
"foo" files with different extension.
   Double-click the foo.pdf file and you will see the music.


8) How to get help
Help in Lilypond is provided by the lilypond-user mailing list.

   Before to send an e-mail, try to find an ans

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-25 Thread David Rogers 
(Apologies to the moderator; I sent this from the wrong address at 
first.)

On Feb 25, 2005, at 04:22, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
BTW, the description of getting Lilypond up and running on a pristine
MacOS X (getting XCode, lots of compilation) seems rather involved. I
wonder whether there would be any interest in a "native" MacOS X
binary of Lilypond, with a pretty installer. An binary which is up and
running in a minutes, and Just Works out-of-box.
And: if you think that is cool idea, what would be a reasonable price?
IMO the price is much less important than the implementation, because 
an ordinary Mac user's idea of Just Works is very different from yours. 
Here is my idea of the installation:

When the user downloads your new installer, he should see an icon with 
a note beside it, "Double-click here to install Lilypond". And when he 
does so, there should be no questions, no choices to make, and the 
installer should not exit until it has processed "test.ly", displayed 
the corresponding PDF, and opened the documentation to the 
Introduction, all without user intervention. In addition, it would be 
good to install a clickable Lilypond icon in /Applications, even if its 
only function is to open whatever tools you include. (Which I assume 
would be something like the jEdit-with-plugins setup. Nobody who needs 
this possible new installer is going to have any idea what to do with 
Emacs, and conversely, anybody comfortable with Emacs won't be rushing 
to buy a new installer. Even jEdit is pretty weird if you're only used 
to OS X's TextEdit app.)

If that kind of sophistication is possible, then I think it would make 
a significant difference to a lot of people who would otherwise never 
touch Lilypond, and a number of them might pay good money for it.
If not, then the current setup works for people who are already 
comfortable with Fink, a terminal, etc.

David

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-25 Thread andrea valle 
My feeling is that Lilypond is different that GB, and concerning the
notation, it is superior in many ways (I'm not sure though, can anyone
send a PDF sample to me?). If anything, it should be as expensive.
As a mac user, two cents:
1) GB is also an audio/midi editor. So, it can be compared only very 
roughly with lily.
2) If it only depends on its effective value, lily should cost very 
much and surely much more than GB, which should be freeware for me 
(with 0 downloads)... . Maybe the idea was not to have lily mac app 
free, but that it costs the minimum. This can be an effective argument 
in order to make lily widespread.

ciao
-a-

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-25 Thread Kieren Richard MacMillan 
Han-Wen (et al.):
My feeling is that Lilypond is different that GB
Agreed -- if any comparison is to be made, it should be with like 
products (Sibeilus, Finale, etc.).

However, it's hard to put a price on the "non-GUI-interface" factor: 
although Lilypond is clearly the superior typesetter (just like LaTeX 
is infinitely better than Word!), most people want an (significantly) 
easier interface for entering and manipulating the data (notes, etc). 
Until that's in place, the pricing for some hypothetical "wider OS X 
market" is almost a moot point...

But pricing for the small but valid segment of "almost-geeks" that 
don't mind the entry interface but DO mind the installation process is 
an important consideration.

Best regards,
Kieren.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-25 Thread Christ van Willegen 
Hi,

> I am not sure, that's why I'm asking. Initially, my thoughts go out to
> a subscription: we provide regular builds, and the subscriber is able
> download those during X months. Perhaps there could  support for
> installation troubleshooting as well.

Sounds OK for me as well, but Fink works just as well...

What binary packages are required for Lilypond to run?
- Lilypond
- ps2pdf?

Any others?

Christ van Willegen


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-25 Thread Han-Wen Nienhuys 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Since I have no trouble with my current install (via Fink), I'm not 
> sure it would make much difference to me personally.
> However, I would have a SIGNIFICANTLY easier time "selling" Lilypond to 
> other (new) users if there were a "standard" installation process, so 
> my answer is a resounding "YES"!!

ok!

> > And: if you think that is cool idea, what would be a reasonable price?
> 
> Do you mean a one-time "registration", or to be paid every version, or 
> a "sponsorship" for the continued preparation of said binaries, or...?

I am not sure, that's why I'm asking. Initially, my thoughts go out to
a subscription: we provide regular builds, and the subscriber is able
download those during X months. Perhaps there could  support for
installation troubleshooting as well.



-- 

 Han-Wen Nienhuys   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen 



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: MacOS X native packaged (was Re: lilypond install mac os x)

2005-02-25 Thread Kieren Richard MacMillan 
Hello, Han-Wen:
BTW, the description of getting Lilypond up and running on a pristine
MacOS X (getting XCode, lots of compilation) seems rather involved.
I wonder whether there would be any interest in a "native" MacOS X
binary of Lilypond, with a pretty installer. An binary which is up and
running in a minutes, and Just Works out-of-box.
Since I have no trouble with my current install (via Fink), I'm not 
sure it would make much difference to me personally.
However, I would have a SIGNIFICANTLY easier time "selling" Lilypond to 
other (new) users if there were a "standard" installation process, so 
my answer is a resounding "YES"!!

And: if you think that is cool idea, what would be a reasonable price?
Do you mean a one-time "registration", or to be paid every version, or 
a "sponsorship" for the continued preparation of said binaries, or...?

Cheers,
Kieren.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user