Re: Open Sound control?

[David Kastrup]

ander...@notam02.no writes:

>> "D" == David Wright  writes:
>
> D> If one can save OSC files like MIDI files, could you please send
> D> me one, and some instructions on how to play it.
>
>
>
> If you by "play it" mean getting sound from it, set up whatever OSC
> enabled player you prefer, making sure the OSC-path \myNote reacts to
> something having a start time and a 'freq' parameter.

That's like handing a brush to someone asking for a painting.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[andersvi]

> "D" == David Wright  writes:

D> If one can save OSC files like MIDI files, could you please send
D> me one, and some instructions on how to play it.



score-with-notes.osc
Description: Binary data

If you by "play it" mean getting sound from it, set up whatever OSC
enabled player you prefer, making sure the OSC-path \myNote reacts to
something having a start time and a 'freq' parameter.

For fun i included messages and parameters with symbolic names for
time-signatures, beams, and tuplets in this prototype file, ie. it could
be used to carry layout info for notation for LY.

D> It's a bit premature for me to try to compare the protocols or
D> the formats as I have no experience with OSC, only MIDI.

MIDI is fixed.  OSC (the protocol) doesn't care, which is perhaps
confusing, but is what could make it useful in this context.

If you want to gain a basic understanding you can check out
SuperCollider, esp. the docs relating to NRT synthesis, perhaps also
simple clients like Matt Wrights sendOSC.

Cheers,

-anders
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[andersvi]

> "D" == David Kastrup  writes:

D> MusicXML export would likely be quite more useful for letting
D> LilyPond interface with other applications while preserving more
D> information about the original input.

Obviously.  I'm commenting on a misunderstanding vs. potential use of
OSC raised in this thread.

-anders


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[David Kastrup]

ander...@notam02.no writes:

>> "D" == David Wright  writes:
>
> D> I've googled around for a file format, but all I find are
> D> applications and program fragments. OK, an application might be
> D> able to store an OSC protocol stream in a file, but that does not
> D> make that a file format.
>
> OSC has no more need for a special file format than does my TODO list.
>
> The question was whether OSC could be useful with LY, which it surely
> would be.  Esp. compared to MIDI, where any notation quality apart from
> delta-time, coarse pitch values and dynamics are eraded.

LilyPond does not use Midi as a storage format but as an output format,
just like PDF is an output format.  The salient point of having a Midi
backend is not to store information but to pass it on.  Without a large
body of soft- and hardware able to process the resulting OSC files, this
is a pretty pointless exercise.  MusicXML export would likely be quite
more useful for letting LilyPond interface with other applications while
preserving more information about the original input.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[David Wright]

On Mon 15 Aug 2016 at 18:10:03 (+0200), ander...@notam02.no wrote:
> > "D" == David Wright  writes:
> 
> D> I've googled around for a file format, but all I find are
> D> applications and program fragments. OK, an application might be
> D> able to store an OSC protocol stream in a file, but that does not
> D> make that a file format.
> 
> OSC has no more need for a special file format than does my TODO list.
> 
> The question was whether OSC could be useful with LY, which it surely
> would be.

That was question 1.

Question 2 was "Can one save osc files like MIDI files?"

If one can save OSC files like MIDI files, could you please send me
one, and some instructions on how to play it.

> Esp. compared to MIDI, where any notation quality apart from
> delta-time, coarse pitch values and dynamics are eraded.

It's a bit premature for me to try to compare the protocols or the
formats as I have no experience with OSC, only MIDI.

I have plenty of MIDI files, and to play them I type
timidity 
or
audacious 
(The latter uses a plug-in.)

Cheers,
David.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[andersvi]

> "D" == David Wright  writes:

D> I've googled around for a file format, but all I find are
D> applications and program fragments. OK, an application might be
D> able to store an OSC protocol stream in a file, but that does not
D> make that a file format.

OSC has no more need for a special file format than does my TODO list.

The question was whether OSC could be useful with LY, which it surely
would be.  Esp. compared to MIDI, where any notation quality apart from
delta-time, coarse pitch values and dynamics are eraded.

Cheers,

-anders


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[David Wright]

On Sun 14 Aug 2016 at 13:02:08 (+0200), ander...@notam02.no wrote:
> b> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control is sayed to
> b> replace MIDI. Is this something usefull for lilypond?
> 
> It should be.  Storing and sending/receiving arbitrary data is
> straightforward in OSC, in MIDI you'll have to build and parse sysex for
> any non-standard (e.g. rhythms, beams, slurs, offsets, markups...).
> 
> b> Can one save osc files like MIDI files?
> 
> Yes.  All information in any .ly file could be encoded in OSC format and
> saved to files or sent along to other apps.  SuperCollider and OpenMusic
> are examples of apps supporting OSC as one possible score-file format.

Looking at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control
I can't see any reference to a file format. At the bottom, there's a
link "Music notation file formats" which takes you to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Music_notation_file_formats
which contains a link "Open Sound Control" under the heading
Pages in category "Music notation file formats"
and that nicely completes the circle with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control

The list which contains "Open Sound Control" also contains "MIDI file"
which suggests the error is wiki's, not mine.

So would I be right in thinking OSC is only a Protocol and not
a File Format?

> http://opensoundcontrol.org/files/OSC-Demo.pdf

I'm not sure what I'm missing seeing in this page by not having
"language pack for 'Adobe-Japan1' mapping" available.

> https://www.midi.org/articles/white-paper-comparison-of-midi-and-osc

One of the comparisons here is Standard File Format:
MIDI: yesOSC: an implied negative.

I've googled around for a file format, but all I find are applications
and program fragments. OK, an application might be able to store an OSC
protocol stream in a file, but that does not make that a file format.

Cheers,
David.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[andersvi]

b> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control is sayed to
b> replace MIDI. Is this something usefull for lilypond?

It should be.  Storing and sending/receiving arbitrary data is
straightforward in OSC, in MIDI you'll have to build and parse sysex for
any non-standard (e.g. rhythms, beams, slurs, offsets, markups...).

b> Can one save osc files like MIDI files?

Yes.  All information in any .ly file could be encoded in OSC format and
saved to files or sent along to other apps.  SuperCollider and OpenMusic
are examples of apps supporting OSC as one possible score-file format.

OSC has absolute hi-resolution time tagging as part of its protocol (aka
"bundles") making OSC useable as a score-file format by itself.  Like
MIDI Track Events, arbitrary OSC messages may contain delta time values.

MIDI does not support absolute time as part of the protocol, instead
relying on an application layer (transport, driver) to store or deliver
the message at the right time based on these delta time values.

http://opensoundcontrol.org/files/OSC-Demo.pdf
https://www.midi.org/articles/white-paper-comparison-of-midi-and-osc

Cheers,

-anders


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[Nathan Ho]

On 2016-08-13 06:52, bb wrote:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control
is sayed to replace MIDI. Is this something usefull for lilypond? Can
one save osc files like MIDI files?


OSC replaces one particular use of MIDI, which is for real-time 
communication between software or hardware devices. OSC is much more 
general than MIDI, making few assumptions about the kind of musical 
content being conveyed, and pretty much every application of OSC uses 
its own sub-protocol. For example, here is the command reference for 
scsynth, an app that makes heavy use of OSC: 
http://doc.sccode.org/Reference/Server-Command-Reference.html Any app 
that wants to talk to scsynth will have to know these commands.


OSC has found use in music notation -- INScore (for animated/interactive 
scores) and IanniX (an OSC sequencer that acts as its own kind of 
graphic score). But these apps are nothing like LilyPond.


SuperCollider has an "OSC Score" format which encodes a bunch of timed 
OSC messages. I'm not sure how standardized it is, but it's as close as 
OSC gets to the MIDI file. Again, the process of reading and writing 
these scores requires some agreed-upon sub-protocol suited to your 
specific application.


It's a cool protocol, and very much alive. But it's not very useful to 
LilyPond.



Nathan

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[Urs Liska]

Am 13. August 2016 16:15:31 MESZ, schrieb "Erik Ronström" :
>AFAIK, OSC is only a communication protocol – what is sent over the
>protocol is up to the application. So it is not a replacement for MIDI,
>rather a complement.

Indeed. OSC is used for all kinds of remote control stuff. It sends and 
receives messages that use a path structure for addressing.

I have in the past for example used it to convert controller messages to 
meaningful messages and vice versa (in PureData or Max/Msp patches).

Urs

>
>Erik
>
>
>
>
>> 13 aug. 2016 kl. 15:52 skrev bb :
>> 
>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control
>> is sayed to replace MIDI. Is this something usefull for lilypond? Can
>one save osc files like MIDI files?
>> 
>> Kindly
>> 
>> ___
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
>___
>lilypond-user mailing list
>lilypond-user@gnu.org
>https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[David Kastrup]

bb  writes:

> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control
> is sayed to replace MIDI. Is this something usefull for lilypond? Can
> one save osc files like MIDI files?

The "home page" of the project lists a number of quite minor programs
(or generic libraries and some very limited hardware) supporting OSC.
It has been updated last in 2004.  The link on the "home page" to the
"developer list" is dead.

Searching independently, one finds the forums on
.  The last messages on those forums
(including the official developer list) have been 5 years ago.

It's not like there is a whole lot of traffic/development on the
respective Midi association pages either but that's not exactly because
Midi would have become irrelevant.

Now there are a whole lot more Midi transports than there were
historically: Midi over USB likely being the most important one.

It's sort of ironic that the most important transport in the studio
remains the 31250 bps current loop over DIN connectors and optocouplers,
possibly because it keeps ground loops at bay.  Meaning that the
associated latencies still are relevant.

Independent from the question of transports, of course, is that of file
formats.  There are a few that also allow using sound fonts and others,
but SMF (Standard Midi File format, containing more info than the Midi
messages passed on wire as well as timing information) remains the most
important one, usually with .mid or .midi file extension which is not
exactly correct.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Open Sound control?

[Erik Ronström]

AFAIK, OSC is only a communication protocol – what is sent over the protocol is 
up to the application. So it is not a replacement for MIDI, rather a complement.

Erik




> 13 aug. 2016 kl. 15:52 skrev bb :
> 
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control
> is sayed to replace MIDI. Is this something usefull for lilypond? Can one 
> save osc files like MIDI files?
> 
> Kindly
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user