Re: Tips on quick entry

[Manuela]

tyronicus wrote
> Hello list,
> 
> It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last night I spent
> almost an hour a page just getting notes and lyrics in

I think there is not a single simple trick. I guess you are entering
leadsheets with chords and lyrics? How fast can you read notes and how fast
can type on the keyboard?

I can tell only my MO. I created a template and enter the notes for the
first voice, second voice, chords,... as variables. To control line- and
pagebreaks I often use a hidden voice. Lyrics mostly I search at the net and
do copy&paste.

>From my experience I can say it is a matter of practice. For my first
Lilypond sheets it felt if I needed ages. Not this works really fast, but I
have to admit that I can read notes very well and type rather quick on the
keyboard.

Greetings,
Manuela



--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Tips-on-quick-entry-tp198929p199612.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Richard Shann]

On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 22:39 -0700, Samuel Speer wrote:
> Richard: Your video was really impressive. On my first try, however,
> Denemo was really frustrating. The tooltips took me at good 5-10
> minutes to figure out, then every time I tried to connect my midi
> keyboard, it crashed.
Thank your for the feedback. The Gtk tooltips is a bit like the guile2.0
saga - a bunch of developers off following their own interest and
leaving a trail of destruction in their wake. I have now re-written
Denemo so that it no longer uses the Gtk tooltip mechanism, so they are
entirely controllable via the preferences.
The help manual suggests the MIDI controller is best connected before
starting Denemo, connection is then automatic. I haven't seen it crash
in recent years on a MIDI connection though, but I know that very old
versions of Denemo still circulate.

Richard



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Samuel Speer]

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions!

Ben: Yes, I do use Frescobaldi; it's definitely my editor-of-choice after
trying several different solutions. My favorite thing about Frescobaldi is
that it is lightweight... hopefully the long-term plans of adding lots more
functionality to Frescobaldi do not make it unwieldy.

Richard: Your video was really impressive. On my first try, however, Denemo
was really frustrating. The tooltips took me at good 5-10 minutes to figure
out, then every time I tried to connect my midi keyboard, it crashed.
Perhaps I'll try again sometime soon. I'm sure that, like LilyPond, it's
worth getting over the learning curve.

David: I wish I could help with Frescobaldi development. Perhaps in the
summers I will have time to work on learning enough to help.

Nathan: I loved your suggestions, and after trying them this month, found
they really helped me. I think I was so slow before because I would compile
and check the output every few bars. When I put it all in quickly, then
proof, it goes much faster. Thanks!

Ivan: Thanks for your suggestion to use Vim. I've used Vim somewhat and
like it for terminal editing. Frescobaldi is definitely my favorite right
now, though.

Thanks again everyone!

Sam
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Ivan Kuznetsov]

I know I am responding late to this, but you don't say
what OS your are using or even what text editor.
I am guessing that you are using some sort of
simple text editor like NotePad or Gedit.

My tip for quick data entry is to learn a Unix
text editor such as Vi or Emacs (personally, I use
Vi/Vim).  There is a learning curve with Vi, but once you
know what you are doing, entering/copying/manipulating
text becomes lighting fast.



Samuel Speer  wrote:
>
> It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last night I spent
> almost an hour a page just getting notes and lyrics in. Does anyone have any
> tips for quick entry? I do have a midi keyboard but haven't tried it much.
> It seems slow because I have to switch back and forth with the computer
> keyboard to do articulations, durations, etc.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Nathan Ho]

On 2017-01-06 13:39, Samuel Speer wrote:

Hello list,

It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last night I
spent almost an hour a page just getting notes and lyrics in. Does
anyone have any tips for quick entry? I do have a midi keyboard but
haven't tried it much. It seems slow because I have to switch back and
forth with the computer keyboard to do articulations, durations, etc.


Hi Samuel,

Composing and arranging directly into LilyPond is always going to be 
slow (since you're doing more than just note entry). But if you're just 
transferring music from paper to LilyPond, you can get pretty efficient.


It's important to have a workflow that doesn't involve switching windows 
and typing "lilypond prelude.ly" in the terminal and whatnot. Use 
Frescobaldi or a similar setup with your editor of choice.


Don't feel the need to wait for LilyPond to compile, especially for 
large scores. My approach is to keep typing music continuously. I hit 
Ctrl+M (Frescobaldi) every few bars or so, leave it on in the background 
while I keep transcribing, and maybe glance at its results. It's largely 
a matter of practice -- get really comfortable with LilyPond's syntax so 
you can confidently type a large chunk of music in without needing to 
look at the compiled output. Proofreading comes after the initial sprint 
through the music, and point and click is essential for that.


Oh yeah, and I suggest using \language "english". Save a few characters.


Nathan

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[David Kastrup]

Richard Shann  writes:

> On Sat, 2017-01-07 at 16:27 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Richard Shann  writes:
>> [...] doesn't cover chord entry - I used to use the
>> > sustain pedal to indicate that the notes played should all be in one
>> > chord, but now I hold down the Alt key - you can do either in Denemo.
>> > The problem with depending on the timing of the ons and offs is that
>> > played musically notes which are intended to be sequential can often not
>> > be so, quite - not a problem I guess if you are playing in slowly,
>> > changing the duration each time it alters.
>> 
>> You know, if Frescobaldi development weren't apparently dead 
>
> Oh, dear. I was going to add that the nice soundsfromsounds video guide
> also failed to draw attention the the "All sharps" or "All flats"
> limitation. It presumably means that a piece with F-sharp and B-flat in
> it would require you to stop off and click on a button when they
> alternated.

A basic scale that is only modified upwards works well.  It turns out
that for the key of C major/A minor, the Bb major scale works well as a
"floor", transliterating keys adjacent to C major and A minor and doing
a reasonable job with harmonic minor as well.

Of course, one should be able to pin the entry key, and it might be
desirable to make ascending/descending patterns behave differently.  But
for pitches "as such" and chord progressions focused around the central
key, this scheme works reasonably well.

>> (no more commits in the repository since October 1 and submitted
>> trivial patches get dropped on the floor), it would be worthwhile to
>> make Frescobaldi decide "chord-or-not" based on the overlap in
>> duration.
>
> I think you could be right - I have so little need for chord entry that
> it has been rather neglected.

"No more commits" in all of Frescobaldi.  And my never applied patch
fixes Frescobaldi being confused about Midi channel numbers (0-15 in the
messages correspond to human-readable channels 1-16 and the current code
makes it impossible to select only channel 1) and is not concerned with
chord mode.

I just stated that working on chord mode is a waste of time when no
patches get applied anymore to Frescobaldi anyway.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Richard Shann]

On Sat, 2017-01-07 at 16:27 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
> Richard Shann  writes:
> [...] doesn't cover chord entry - I used to use the
> > sustain pedal to indicate that the notes played should all be in one
> > chord, but now I hold down the Alt key - you can do either in Denemo.
> > The problem with depending on the timing of the ons and offs is that
> > played musically notes which are intended to be sequential can often not
> > be so, quite - not a problem I guess if you are playing in slowly,
> > changing the duration each time it alters.
> 
> You know, if Frescobaldi development weren't apparently dead 

Oh, dear. I was going to add that the nice soundsfromsounds video guide
also failed to draw attention the the "All sharps" or "All flats"
limitation. It presumably means that a piece with F-sharp and B-flat in
it would require you to stop off and click on a button when they
alternated.
A better enharmonic range (if it must be fixed) would be E-flat to
G-sharp. But I'm sure William could make the range selectable as in
Denemo. Trickier for Frescobaldi might be to draw attention to
enharmonic mistakes A-flat for G-sharp etc. Denemo plays augmented or
diminished intervals on a different channel as you enter music so you
can easily hear E, A-flat, B-natural when E, G-sharp, B-natural was
intended. Since introducing that feature several years ago I have never
had an enharmonic error in my music.

> (no more
> commits in the repository since October 1 and submitted trivial patches
> get dropped on the floor), it would be worthwhile to make Frescobaldi
> decide "chord-or-not" based on the overlap in duration.

I think you could be right - I have so little need for chord entry that
it has been rather neglected.

Richard


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[David Kastrup]

Richard Shann  writes:

> On Fri, 2017-01-06 at 14:59 -0700, SoundsFromSound wrote:
>> tyronicus wrote
>> > Hello list,
>> > 
>> > It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last night I spent
>> > almost an hour a page just getting notes and lyrics in. Does anyone have
>> > any tips for quick entry? I do have a midi keyboard but haven't tried it
>> > much. It seems slow because I have to switch back and forth with the
>> > computer keyboard to do articulations, durations, etc.
>> > 
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Sam
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > lilypond-user mailing list
>> 
>> > lilypond-user@
>> 
>> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I recently made an in-depth video tutorial on how to input music fast with
>> LilyPond and your MIDI keyboard, as well as use Frescobaldi for very quick
>> input (articulations, dynamics, hairpins, etc). If you're interested here is
>> the link: 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdA1NLcBxLo
>
> That's a lovely looking video! You didn't mention controlling the rhythm
> of the notes that you play in, but you did cover chord entry.
>
> By contrast my video
> https://vimeo.com/61994482
>
> looks quite crummy and doesn't cover chord entry - I used to use the
> sustain pedal to indicate that the notes played should all be in one
> chord, but now I hold down the Alt key - you can do either in Denemo.
> The problem with depending on the timing of the ons and offs is that
> played musically notes which are intended to be sequential can often not
> be so, quite - not a problem I guess if you are playing in slowly,
> changing the duration each time it alters.

You know, if Frescobaldi development weren't apparently dead (no more
commits in the repository since October 1 and submitted trivial patches
get dropped on the floor), it would be worthwhile to make Frescobaldi
decide "chord-or-not" based on the overlap in duration.  That works
pretty well with the Emacs input mode I did.

But why bother when no patch is getting accepted any more?

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Richard Shann]

On Fri, 2017-01-06 at 14:59 -0700, SoundsFromSound wrote:
> tyronicus wrote
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last night I spent
> > almost an hour a page just getting notes and lyrics in. Does anyone have
> > any tips for quick entry? I do have a midi keyboard but haven't tried it
> > much. It seems slow because I have to switch back and forth with the
> > computer keyboard to do articulations, durations, etc.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Sam
> > 
> > ___
> > lilypond-user mailing list
> 
> > lilypond-user@
> 
> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I recently made an in-depth video tutorial on how to input music fast with
> LilyPond and your MIDI keyboard, as well as use Frescobaldi for very quick
> input (articulations, dynamics, hairpins, etc). If you're interested here is
> the link: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdA1NLcBxLo

That's a lovely looking video! You didn't mention controlling the rhythm
of the notes that you play in, but you did cover chord entry.

By contrast my video
https://vimeo.com/61994482

looks quite crummy and doesn't cover chord entry - I used to use the
sustain pedal to indicate that the notes played should all be in one
chord, but now I hold down the Alt key - you can do either in Denemo.
The problem with depending on the timing of the ons and offs is that
played musically notes which are intended to be sequential can often not
be so, quite - not a problem I guess if you are playing in slowly,
changing the duration each time it alters.

Richard



___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Richard Shann]

On Fri, 2017-01-06 at 14:36 -0800, Glen Larsen wrote:
> Try the hints on this page, especially frescobaldi, if you haven't
> checked it out already.
> 
> 
> Since I think you will get many suggestions, 

I suspect you won't get many suggestions from people who use the Denemo
front end though, as the majority of them never look at the LilyPond or
tweak it directly, and so never come to this list. I would like that to
change, because at least for some sorts of transcribing Denemo offers
efficiencies that exceed those available in any other program.

> here is a short description of my working process for transcribing
> sheet music for the Mutopia Project. You may not find it applicable to
> your process and working layout but it is quite efficient for me.
> 
> 
> - Ubuntu linux with 3 windows, an emacs editor and 2 pdf viewers, one
> for source, one for LilyPond output. I overlay the LilyPond output
> over the source so that only the source system of interest is showing.
> (Working from paper is actually quicker but I am a paperless kind of
> guy.)

Denemo adds to this the possibility of putting links in the music you
entered back to the source, and the ability to mask off those systems
which you are not transcribing from, so that you don't find yourself
going on to the wrong system at line end. (There is also a third pdf you
can open - an annotated version of LilyPond's output which your client
has sent back holding corrections, with this you can point-and-click to
enter the corrections directly in your source).



> - Typically treble in one voice, bass in another (I transcribe mostly
> classical guitar music), one measure per line with bar checks ('|').
> (In emacs, when '|' is typed, the time for the measure is calculated
> and displayed.)
> - Transcribe only notes, no dynamics, markups, etc.

Denemo's main trick for improving the efficiency of entering notes is to
allow you to set more than just the duration of the current note - you
can enter the durations for an entire bar, line or (as I do, being now
practised with this system, an entire movement). Then you can play in
the pitches using a MIDI keyboard without pausing.
Refinements of this method of entering rhythms now include entering
dotted rhythms in two keystrokes and triplets in three key strokes. so
you can enter the rhythms rhythmically. Slurs are entered with the
rhythm by holding down the control key while entering the duration (it
slurs on from previous note).
I do however break rhythm while entering durations to enter dynamics and
ornaments, but this is because these are so simple in the music I
transcribe that I can do those with one or two keystrokes, without
looking away from the source. And I do use some abbreviations (such as a
keystroke to complete the bar with the rhythmic pattern already entered,
or with the last duration or to duplicate the rhythm of the previous
bar, when there is a lot of pattern repetition in the rhythms.


> - Transcribe treble first, reviewing each system as you finish.
> - While transcribing bass, review treble.
> - Add dynamics and markups using point-and-click, reviewing once more.
> - Walk through with midi.
> - I let LilyPond position/auto-beam/etc. then do a tweaking pass if
> necessary.

This is the other place where Denemo can offer a significant advantage -
you can drag slur and tie shapes around on the final LilyPond typeset.
This is not as easy, I suspect, as in drawing-based programs such as
Musesore, Sibelius and Finale, but it's not needed so very often in the
music I typeset.
> 
> 
> I use the compile command in emacs as I work so that clicking on an
> error message will take me to the problem line. This method allows me
> to work entirely from emacs, only moving to the pdf viewers when need
> to I scroll to the next system in the source.

In Denemo you have to open a separate window to see the LilyPond
generated with the error highlighted. Moving the cursor around here
moves the cursor in your source.
> 
> 
> - I prefer 'fixed' entry over absolute and relative.
> - make generous use of 'repeat unfold' for short repeated patterns.
> - use 'q' note entry for repeated chords.

While a GUI allows you to generate repeated stuff with ease of course
(the Enter key repeats a bar for example) you don't get the same control
over the LilyPond output. You would have to work harder to generate
specific sorts of LilyPond output and there you might find a different
trade-off between effort and result.

> 
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Samuel Speer 
> wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> 
> It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last
> night I spent almost an hour a page

I have settled in to a speed of an hour for a sonata with three or four
movements, a dozen or so pages.

Richard




___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[Glen Larsen]

Try the hints on this page, especially frescobaldi
, if you haven't checked it out
already.

Since I think you will get many suggestions, here is a short description of
my working process for transcribing sheet music for the Mutopia Project.
You may not find it applicable to your process and working layout but it is
quite efficient for me.

- Ubuntu linux with 3 windows, an emacs editor and 2 pdf viewers, one for
source, one for LilyPond output. I overlay the LilyPond output over the
source so that only the source system of interest is showing. (Working from
paper is actually quicker but I am a paperless kind of guy.)
- Typically treble in one voice, bass in another (I transcribe mostly
classical guitar music), one measure per line with bar checks ('|'). (In
emacs, when '|' is typed, the time for the measure is calculated and
displayed.)
- Transcribe only notes, no dynamics, markups, etc.
- Transcribe treble first, reviewing each system as you finish.
- While transcribing bass, review treble.
- Add dynamics and markups using point-and-click, reviewing once more.
- Walk through with midi.
- I let LilyPond position/auto-beam/etc. then do a tweaking pass if
necessary.

I use the compile command in emacs as I work so that clicking on an error
message will take me to the problem line. This method allows me to work
entirely from emacs, only moving to the pdf viewers when need to I scroll
to the next system in the source.

- I prefer 'fixed' entry over absolute and relative.
- make generous use of 'repeat unfold' for short repeated patterns.
- use 'q' note entry for repeated chords.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Samuel Speer  wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last night I spent
> almost an hour a page just getting notes and lyrics in. Does anyone have
> any tips for quick entry? I do have a midi keyboard but haven't tried it
> much. It seems slow because I have to switch back and forth with the
> computer keyboard to do articulations, durations, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Sam
>
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tips on quick entry

[SoundsFromSound]

tyronicus wrote
> Hello list,
> 
> It takes me ages to enter the note data into LilyPond. Last night I spent
> almost an hour a page just getting notes and lyrics in. Does anyone have
> any tips for quick entry? I do have a midi keyboard but haven't tried it
> much. It seems slow because I have to switch back and forth with the
> computer keyboard to do articulations, durations, etc.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Sam
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list

> lilypond-user@

> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Hello,

I recently made an in-depth video tutorial on how to input music fast with
LilyPond and your MIDI keyboard, as well as use Frescobaldi for very quick
input (articulations, dynamics, hairpins, etc). If you're interested here is
the link: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdA1NLcBxLo

Are you using a GUI editor for LilyPond currently? If not, you should
consider trying out Frescobaldi. I have setup some custom snippets, quick
keyboard shortcuts, and combined with MIDI keyboard input I have increased
my speed tremendously.

Hope this helps you,

Ben




-
composer | sound designer | asmr artist 
LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
--
View this message in context: 
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Tips-on-quick-entry-tp198929p198930.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user