Re: Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
Thank you Carl, that is a perfect example. For me, the gap on the right hand side because of the forced break breaks the flow. Also takes up more space. If I force breaks it is ok, but I prefer compact music. Sounds like we are working on something similar, Carl. I'm porting the Reactor Core Hymn repository http://hymns.reactor-core.org/ over to http://beautifulhymns.org/ Right now I'm doing what you're doing, but I'm switching over to using a LISP framework with Django templates. The LISP framework lets me print out the 4 parts separately, and generate music separately, etc. One thing I'm tackling is this: for MIDI output, on some verses you want two notes, because the word has two phrases, but in other verses you want to respect the tie between two notes because there is just one phrase. So in the music, I insert some of my own codes that are interpreted by the LISP framework: (tie print 1 3) Would insert the ~ tie into the notes at that point, but only in the PDF output, and stanzas 1 and 3 of the MIDI output. (tie) by itself just inserts ~ tie in all stanzas and the print output. I also added syntactic sugar for slur and triplet (slur a b c) (triplet a b c) generate the correct output. I realized the need for this LISP framework when I got to some of the 5 part hymns in the Cantus Christi hymnal. By 5 part, I mean they would have 4 verses with refrain then another four verses with a different refrain... and another two verses to finish off! And different melodies in each part. And I wanted to automate the Sacred Harp hymns as well. And stuff as simple as intros and outros. Why go to all this trouble? So that a change to the source will show up in all generated outputs, the PDF file, the full MIDI file, the MIDI file for each individual part, etc. As someone who doesn't play a musical instrument, I found it very hard to follow along when virtuosic performers didn't follow the notes too closely. Having the printed music and the audible music matching perfectly really helps me with singing. Ted On 20 August 2013 20:46, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Eluze elu...@gmail.com wrote: Ted Walther wrote Another problem with that snippet is the amount to drop. With a good centering command, it is centered. But if I alter the font size, etc, the amount of raising and dropping needed to center the lyrics will alter. How can I predict that without a lot of kludgy code? Again, I'm generating lilypond code from templates. I can compensate for some complexity, but the simpler the better. it would be easier to talk about a real example - can you provide a scan or similar of what you'd like to get!? thanks Eluze See the refrain in http://www.hymnary.org/page/fetch/WASH1957/264/low for an example of what Ted's talking about. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
It is going on 8 years now I've been typesetting hymns in Lilypond, and one thing is still very irritating. For many hymns, you have 3 or 4 verses. And you have a refrain/chorus. It is standard hymn practice to vertically center the chorus between two staves. Yes, it is easy to add the chorus text to the end of one of the stanzas, and at the next \break, vertical centering happens as it should. Now, someone posted another alternative; I could mark the musical notes of the refrain as a separate voice, and tie the chorus lyrics to that. Well and good; I wasn't aware that voices could be sequential. After all, staves in a score can only be in parallel. So, having done that, is there a way to tell the Lyrics attached to the chorus Voice that they should vertically center themselves? Alternately, why not allow sequential staves in a score? Especially if it began at the last barline of the previous score, instead of requiring a line-break. Or, as a last resort, is there a way to glue two scores together so that one starts where the other ends, on the same line? This helps the flow, and for compactness. Having too much whitespace can be very distracting to the flow of the music. Having a ragged end when the chorus should just flow from the earlier part of the verse, doesn't look good. Ted ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Ted Walther tederi...@gmail.com wrote: Now, someone posted another alternative; I could mark the musical notes of the refrain as a separate voice, and tie the chorus lyrics to that. Well and good; I wasn't aware that voices could be sequential. After all, staves in a score can only be in parallel. So, having done that, is there a way to tell the Lyrics attached to the chorus Voice that they should vertically center themselves? Alternately, why not allow sequential staves in a score? Especially if it began at the last barline of the previous score, instead of requiring a line-break. This may be of help in your issue: http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=503 I don't deal with this in the template I posted because I virtually always insert a line break between verse and chorus, so it's a moot point for me. But perhaps the above snippet will be useful. Cheers, Carl Ted ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
Thank you Carl. Interesting example. For the hymns I do, that might work for the first couple bars, but then I'll have to predict where the linebreak will be and revert it at that point. I'm using a template system to auto-generate the lilypond code, so having to insert a counter-acting command at an unpredictable spot in the lyrics will be rather annoying. Are there any Lilypond developers still active on the list who might be interested in doing a sponsored modification that would allow two staves to be pasted together within a score. Alternatively, allowing two scores to be pasted together on the same line, since scores already follow one another sequentially inside a book? Ted On 20 August 2013 13:41, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Ted Walther tederi...@gmail.com wrote: Now, someone posted another alternative; I could mark the musical notes of the refrain as a separate voice, and tie the chorus lyrics to that. Well and good; I wasn't aware that voices could be sequential. After all, staves in a score can only be in parallel. So, having done that, is there a way to tell the Lyrics attached to the chorus Voice that they should vertically center themselves? Alternately, why not allow sequential staves in a score? Especially if it began at the last barline of the previous score, instead of requiring a line-break. This may be of help in your issue: http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=503 I don't deal with this in the template I posted because I virtually always insert a line break between verse and chorus, so it's a moot point for me. But perhaps the above snippet will be useful. Cheers, Carl Ted ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
Another problem with that snippet is the amount to drop. With a good centering command, it is centered. But if I alter the font size, etc, the amount of raising and dropping needed to center the lyrics will alter. How can I predict that without a lot of kludgy code? Again, I'm generating lilypond code from templates. I can compensate for some complexity, but the simpler the better. Ted On 20 August 2013 14:47, Ted Walther tederi...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Carl. Interesting example. For the hymns I do, that might work for the first couple bars, but then I'll have to predict where the linebreak will be and revert it at that point. I'm using a template system to auto-generate the lilypond code, so having to insert a counter-acting command at an unpredictable spot in the lyrics will be rather annoying. Are there any Lilypond developers still active on the list who might be interested in doing a sponsored modification that would allow two staves to be pasted together within a score. Alternatively, allowing two scores to be pasted together on the same line, since scores already follow one another sequentially inside a book? Ted On 20 August 2013 13:41, Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Ted Walther tederi...@gmail.com wrote: Now, someone posted another alternative; I could mark the musical notes of the refrain as a separate voice, and tie the chorus lyrics to that. Well and good; I wasn't aware that voices could be sequential. After all, staves in a score can only be in parallel. So, having done that, is there a way to tell the Lyrics attached to the chorus Voice that they should vertically center themselves? Alternately, why not allow sequential staves in a score? Especially if it began at the last barline of the previous score, instead of requiring a line-break. This may be of help in your issue: http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=503 I don't deal with this in the template I posted because I virtually always insert a line break between verse and chorus, so it's a moot point for me. But perhaps the above snippet will be useful. Cheers, Carl Ted ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
Ted Walther wrote Another problem with that snippet is the amount to drop. With a good centering command, it is centered. But if I alter the font size, etc, the amount of raising and dropping needed to center the lyrics will alter. How can I predict that without a lot of kludgy code? Again, I'm generating lilypond code from templates. I can compensate for some complexity, but the simpler the better. it would be easier to talk about a real example - can you provide a scan or similar of what you'd like to get!? thanks Eluze -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Vertically-centering-lyrics-between-two-staves-tp149557p149566.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Ted Walther tederi...@gmail.com wrote: Another problem with that snippet is the amount to drop. With a good centering command, it is centered. But if I alter the font size, etc, the amount of raising and dropping needed to center the lyrics will alter. How can I predict that without a lot of kludgy code? Again, I'm generating lilypond code from templates. I can compensate for some complexity, but the simpler the better. Ted On 20 August 2013 14:47, Ted Walther tederi...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Carl. Interesting example. For the hymns I do, that might work for the first couple bars, but then I'll have to predict where the linebreak will be and revert it at that point. I'm using a template system to auto-generate the lilypond code, so having to insert a counter-acting command at an unpredictable spot in the lyrics will be rather annoying. Are there any Lilypond developers still active on the list who might be interested in doing a sponsored modification that would allow two staves to be pasted together within a score. Alternatively, allowing two scores to be pasted together on the same line, since scores already follow one another sequentially inside a book? Ted I am also using a template system. Right now, the system is composed of nested include files (one for the lyrics, one for the music, another to put the two together in combination, another to apply a layout, etc.), but eventually it will be database-driven, with an outside script generating the LP code to run. The idea is to allow end users to mix and match compatible texts and tunes. Since the template system is explicitly designed for output to multiple formats (print and screen) AND because I am endeavoring to keep phrases intact on a line (which is absolutely critical for usability on slides), I do not leave line breaks to chance. I have explicit line breaks in all my scores. This is why your issue isn't a factor for me, since a chorus/refrain theoretically should always begin a new phrase (and thus, can be shunted to a new line). Carl ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Vertically centering lyrics between two staves?
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Eluze elu...@gmail.com wrote: Ted Walther wrote Another problem with that snippet is the amount to drop. With a good centering command, it is centered. But if I alter the font size, etc, the amount of raising and dropping needed to center the lyrics will alter. How can I predict that without a lot of kludgy code? Again, I'm generating lilypond code from templates. I can compensate for some complexity, but the simpler the better. it would be easier to talk about a real example - can you provide a scan or similar of what you'd like to get!? thanks Eluze See the refrain in http://www.hymnary.org/page/fetch/WASH1957/264/low for an example of what Ted's talking about. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
