Re: [LINK] These charts track how coronavirus is spreading around the world
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 06:41:28PM +1000, Karl Auer wrote: > On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 15:55 +1000, Kate Lance wrote: > > They're nice charts but I was startled at the bottom one - 'Autocrats > > aren’t necessarily better at dealing with coronavirus.' Whoever said > > they were! > > I think it's a fair statement to make, because I can imagine many > people might think that autocratic governments ARE better at it. At > least if you assume the autocrats have their populations' best > interests at heart (big assumption). They aren't delayed by any need to > convince opposition parties, pass laws or cajole people, they can just > lock doors, block roads and generally Get Things Done. On the other > hand, they are no faster on the uptake than anyone else, and no more > intelligent or sensible. And most non-autocratic governments have laws > on the books that let them Get Things Done when they really need to. Given that autocrats by definition are anti-democratic, it would be odd for anyone to think they'd ever have their populations' best interests at heart. But I guess there are people who'll believe anything, eg Trump cultists. > > This statement is also bizarre, and perhaps reflects the blame-China > > propaganda now circulating: 'The autocratic nature of the Chinese > > Government meant measures to detect a pandemic weren’t effective and > > the virus was allowed to spread initially.' > > A Government that pretends there is no problem is not helping, and > there seems to be a bit of evidence that they did pretend. What evidence would that be? China informed the world (clue: WORLD Health Organisation) it had a potential problem on 31 December. At that stage they had only 27 cases of 'unknown viral pneumonia', no one had yet died, and it was the middle of the usually-lethal flu season. But due to SARS experience the Chinese recognised there could be a problem and told the world. The world yawned. How did they 'pretend'? Forget the vague insinuations - proof? Timeline as of 21 January: https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf > And did things like abuse and sideline people who tried to sound the alarm. > Maybe that is what the authors of that article are referring to. > On the other hand, the supposedly democratic government of the USA did > exactly the same thing. > > I find it hard to believe in those charts that the Chinese numbers have > flattened out so perfectly. Perhaps when you're trying to count cases in a quarter of the world's population it's not easy, especially if there are only a few cases and resources are stretched. But why assume it's a matter of deception? Not like the US, for instance, where states (eg Florida) are being told openly not to release their deaths statistics in case it hurts Trump's re-election. Regards, Kate > Regards, K. > > -- > ~~~ > Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au) > http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer > http://twitter.com/kauer389 > > GPG fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170 > Old fingerprint: 8D08 9CAA 649A AFEF E862 062A 2E97 42D4 A2A0 616D > > > ___ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] These charts track how coronavirus is spreading around the world
On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 15:55 +1000, Kate Lance wrote: > They're nice charts but I was startled at the bottom one - 'Autocrats > aren’t necessarily better at dealing with coronavirus.' Whoever said > they were! I think it's a fair statement to make, because I can imagine many people might think that autocratic governments ARE better at it. At least if you assume the autocrats have their populations' best interests at heart (big assumption). They aren't delayed by any need to convince opposition parties, pass laws or cajole people, they can just lock doors, block roads and generally Get Things Done. On the other hand, they are no faster on the uptake than anyone else, and no more intelligent or sensible. And most non-autocratic governments have laws on the books that let them Get Things Done when they really need to. > This statement is also bizarre, and perhaps reflects the blame-China > propaganda now circulating: 'The autocratic nature of the Chinese > Government meant measures to detect a pandemic weren’t effective and > the virus was allowed to spread initially.' A Government that pretends there is no problem is not helping, and there seems to be a bit of evidence that they did pretend. And did things like abuse and sideline people who tried to sound the alarm. Maybe that is what the authors of that article are referring to. On the other hand, the supposedly democratic government of the USA did exactly the same thing. I find it hard to believe in those charts that the Chinese numbers have flattened out so perfectly. Regards, K. -- ~~~ Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170 Old fingerprint: 8D08 9CAA 649A AFEF E862 062A 2E97 42D4 A2A0 616D ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] These charts track how coronavirus is spreading around the world
They're nice charts but I was startled at the bottom one - 'Autocrats aren’t necessarily better at dealing with coronavirus.' Whoever said they were! And where's Russia and Brazil on that chart? When the history is finally written I doubt anyone will pretend autocrats have done even a half-way good job. This statement is also bizarre, and perhaps reflects the blame-China propaganda now circulating: 'The autocratic nature of the Chinese Government meant measures to detect a pandemic weren’t effective and the virus was allowed to spread initially.' The first recognised case was 12 December 2019. The first cluster, 27 cases of an 'unknown viral pneumonia', was reported to the WHO on 31 December. It wasn't even *identified* as a new coronavirus until 7 January, and the first death wasn't till 9 January. On 12 January China reported the genetic sequence of the virus to the world. https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf Eleven million people were locked down in Wuhan on 23 January, when still only 18 deaths and 581 cases had been identified. China has its faults, but its response was stunningly fast and effective. Yes, some people were reprimanded during that period of confusion - rather like the stream of US health officials who've been fired for even mentioning inconvenient facts. But even if data on a handful of people in winter with a (then) non-lethal and unidentified pneumonia had appeared a week or two earlier, would that have saved a single one of the 87 thousand now dead in the US, which casually squandered two precious months of forewarning and is now blaming the Chinese for its own breathtaking culpability? Regards, Kate Lance On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 02:00:19PM +1000, Bernard Robertson-Dunn wrote: > These charts track how coronavirus is spreading around the world > > ABC news > > https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-13/coronavirus-numbers-worldwide-data-tracking-charts/12107500 > > Well worth looking at. > > It's not modelling, just graphical representations of data, not all of > which are consistent or accurate. > > The USA is leading the world in many categories, mostly the undesirable > ones. > > -- > > Regards > brd > > Bernard Robertson-Dunn > Canberra Australia > email: b...@iimetro.com.au > > ___ > Link mailing list > Link@mailman.anu.edu.au > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
[LINK] These charts track how coronavirus is spreading around the world
These charts track how coronavirus is spreading around the world ABC news https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-13/coronavirus-numbers-worldwide-data-tracking-charts/12107500 Well worth looking at. It's not modelling, just graphical representations of data, not all of which are consistent or accurate. The USA is leading the world in many categories, mostly the undesirable ones. -- Regards brd Bernard Robertson-Dunn Canberra Australia email: b...@iimetro.com.au ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
