Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Ian E. Gorman]

I am reminded of an author who apologized for writing a along letter
because he didn't have time to write a short one.
It can be quite difficult to condense a complex topic down to a concise summary.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 at 05:49, Michael Goguen  wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, I didn't get a copy from the list of the message I sent.
>
> None of them.
>
> But otherwise seeing replies to this message.
>
> i didn't reply to user, I changed the reply to linux at linux-ott org
>
> ok
>
> Sometimes I regret long posts.
> It is nice to be clear at least whether it went through or not.
>
> thx
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 9:09 PM Brenda J. Butler  wrote:
>>
>>
>> And yes, this is the new (I use that term loosely : -)
>> general discussion list for oclug, the Linux User Group
>> in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
>>
>> bjb
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 07:41:19PM -0500, John Argus wrote:
>> > Your previous long message did make it to the mailing list.
>> >
>> > jna
>> >
>> > > On Jan 31, 2021, at 14:12, Michael Goguen  
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > 
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > test
>> > >
>> > > is this a new domain for the old oclug list?  Just making sure I
>> > > am not somehow confusing lists or on a list I didn't subscribe
>> > > to...
>> > >
>> > > I posted a longer post about some potentially contentious or
>> > > contraversial opinions relating to privacy security and
>> > > maintaining a healthy balance for users and regulators who manage
>> > > issues and threats online etc, it didn't seem to make the list, I
>> > > might repost if this one gets through, but maybe I'll just make
>> > > sure I"m ont the right list first...
>> > >
>> > > it is possible I am not ... fully? subscribed to this list if
>> > > there was a changeover...? from the oclug domain?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > thanks in advance.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Michael
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:01 PM Michael Goguen 
>> > >>  wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> -- Forwarded message -
>> > >> From: tOM Trottier 
>> > >> Date: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 12:37 AM
>> > >> Subject: Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone
>> > >> To: Linux-Ottawa 
>> > >> Cc: Ian! D. Allen 
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> See 
>> > >> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/01/cell-phone-location-privacy.html
>> > >> "“Pretty Good Phone Privacy” (PGPP) protects both user identity and 
>> > >> user location using the existing cellular networks. It protects users 
>> > >> from fake cell phone towers (IMSI-catchers) and surveillance by cell 
>> > >> providers.
>> > >> It’s a clever system. The players are the user, a traditional mobile 
>> > >> network operator (MNO) like AT or Verizon, and a new mobile virtual 
>> > >> network operator (MVNO). MVNOs aren’t new. They’re intermediaries like 
>> > >> Cricket and Boost."
>> > >>
>> > >> -- tOM Trottier
>> > >>
>> > >> On 22 Jan 2021 at 13:15 re:"[linux] anyone using a privacy-prot..."
>> > >>  Ian! D. Allen(Ian! D. Allen ) wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Hello Linux hive-mind -
>> > >> >
>> > >> > A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her
>> > >> > cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
>> > >> > over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
>> > >> > own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind
>> > >> > of cell phones).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to 
>> > >> > share
>> > >> > using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal.

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Dianne Skoll]

See the thread "Why Google marked a message as spam" in the list
archives:

https://lists.linux-ottawa.org/linux/2021/01/msg00052.html

List owners: Perhaps avoid adding the footer?

Regards,

Dianne.

To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[J C Nash]

linux-ottawa.org was set up some years ago as insurance against the
oclug.on.ca domain being sold off or used in ways that did not fit
the corporation objectives. oclug domain was "donated" by a former
member. We asked if we could take it over and were a bit surprised
to be told a definite no. After some discussion, we decided it was
safer to switch to the domain name we owned.

JN



On 2021-01-31 9:09 p.m., Brenda J. Butler wrote:
> 
> And yes, this is the new (I use that term loosely : -)
> general discussion list for oclug, the Linux User Group
> in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
> 
> bjb
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 07:41:19PM -0500, John Argus wrote:
>> Your previous long message did make it to the mailing list. 
>>
>> jna
>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2021, at 14:12, Michael Goguen  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> test
>>>
>>> is this a new domain for the old oclug list?  Just making sure I
>>> am not somehow confusing lists or on a list I didn't subscribe
>>> to...
>>>
>>> I posted a longer post about some potentially contentious or
>>> contraversial opinions relating to privacy security and
>>> maintaining a healthy balance for users and regulators who manage
>>> issues and threats online etc, it didn't seem to make the list, I
>>> might repost if this one gets through, but maybe I'll just make
>>> sure I"m ont the right list first...
>>>
>>> it is possible I am not ... fully? subscribed to this list if
>>> there was a changeover...? from the oclug domain?
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:01 PM Michael Goguen  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>>> From: tOM Trottier 
>>>> Date: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 12:37 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone
>>>> To: Linux-Ottawa 
>>>> Cc: Ian! D. Allen 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See 
>>>> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/01/cell-phone-location-privacy.html
>>>> "“Pretty Good Phone Privacy” (PGPP) protects both user identity and user 
>>>> location using the existing cellular networks. It protects users from fake 
>>>> cell phone towers (IMSI-catchers) and surveillance by cell providers.
>>>> It’s a clever system. The players are the user, a traditional mobile 
>>>> network operator (MNO) like AT or Verizon, and a new mobile virtual 
>>>> network operator (MVNO). MVNOs aren’t new. They’re intermediaries like 
>>>> Cricket and Boost."
>>>>
>>>> -- tOM Trottier
>>>>
>>>> On 22 Jan 2021 at 13:15 re:"[linux] anyone using a privacy-prot..."
>>>>  Ian! D. Allen(Ian! D. Allen ) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Linux hive-mind -
>>>>>
>>>>> A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her
>>>>> cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
>>>>> over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
>>>>> own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind
>>>>> of cell phones).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
>>>>> using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, 
>>>>> Canada
>>>>> | Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: 
>>>>> www.contactimprov.ca
>>>>> | Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  
>>>>> teaching.idallen.com
>>>>> | Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  
>>>>> http://fools.ca/
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
>>>>> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
>>>>> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> tOM Trottier http://TomTrottier.com BBO:"0 carbon"
>>>> +1613-860-6633 t...@abacurial.com   Skype:Abacurial
>>>> MD5 Fingerprint27:B8:BA:91:70:E5:44:20:8F:29:EE:46:1E:52:F6:81
>>>> SHA123:3A:53:18:AB:83:B1:CA:O7:33:AF:10:11:24:27:95:22:98:4E:7E
>>>>
>>>> -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
>>>> Version: 3.12
>>>> GCS$/B$/IT$/O b++ C++> D d++(--)@ DI+++
>>>> e+++ E- G L+ M N O P+ P+>+++ L+>++ PE- PGP
>>>> PS+++ R* r s:+: t-- tv ULH w+ W+++ X- Y+
>>>> !o !K E- V 5-
>>>> -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
> ---end quoted text---
> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
> 

To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Michael Goguen]

Yeah, I didn't get a copy from the list of the message I sent.

None of them.

But otherwise seeing replies to this message.

i didn't reply to user, I changed the reply to linux at linux-ott org

ok

Sometimes I regret long posts.
It is nice to be clear at least whether it went through or not.

thx


Michael






On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 9:09 PM Brenda J. Butler  wrote:

>
> And yes, this is the new (I use that term loosely : -)
> general discussion list for oclug, the Linux User Group
> in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
>
> bjb
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 07:41:19PM -0500, John Argus wrote:
> > Your previous long message did make it to the mailing list.
> >
> > jna
> >
> > > On Jan 31, 2021, at 14:12, Michael Goguen 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > test
> > >
> > > is this a new domain for the old oclug list?  Just making sure I
> > > am not somehow confusing lists or on a list I didn't subscribe
> > > to...
> > >
> > > I posted a longer post about some potentially contentious or
> > > contraversial opinions relating to privacy security and
> > > maintaining a healthy balance for users and regulators who manage
> > > issues and threats online etc, it didn't seem to make the list, I
> > > might repost if this one gets through, but maybe I'll just make
> > > sure I"m ont the right list first...
> > >
> > > it is possible I am not ... fully? subscribed to this list if
> > > there was a changeover...? from the oclug domain?
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:01 PM Michael Goguen <
> michael.gog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -- Forwarded message -
> > >> From: tOM Trottier 
> > >> Date: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 12:37 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone
> > >> To: Linux-Ottawa 
> > >> Cc: Ian! D. Allen 
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> See
> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/01/cell-phone-location-privacy.html
> > >> "“Pretty Good Phone Privacy” (PGPP) protects both user identity and
> user location using the existing cellular networks. It protects users from
> fake cell phone towers (IMSI-catchers) and surveillance by cell providers.
> > >> It’s a clever system. The players are the user, a traditional mobile
> network operator (MNO) like AT or Verizon, and a new mobile virtual
> network operator (MVNO). MVNOs aren’t new. They’re intermediaries like
> Cricket and Boost."
> > >>
> > >> -- tOM Trottier
> > >>
> > >> On 22 Jan 2021 at 13:15 re:"[linux] anyone using a privacy-prot..."
> > >>  Ian! D. Allen(Ian! D. Allen ) wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hello Linux hive-mind -
> > >> >
> > >> > A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up
> her
> > >> > cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
> > >> > over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.
> > >> >
> > >> > I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
> > >> > own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any
> kind
> > >> > of cell phones).
> > >> >
> > >> > Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to
> share
> > >> > using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa,
> Ontario, Canada
> > >> > | Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance:
> www.contactimprov.ca
> > >> > | Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:
> teaching.idallen.com
> > >> > | Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:
> http://fools.ca/
> > >> >
> > >> > To unsubscribe send a blank message to
> linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
> > >> > To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
> > >> > To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> tOM Trottier http://TomTrottier.com BBO:"0 carbon"
> > >> +1613-860-6633 t...@abacurial.com   Skype:Abacurial
> > >> MD5 Fingerprint27:B8:BA:91:70:E5:44:20:8F:29:EE:46:1E:52:F6:81
> > >> SHA1
> 23:3A:53:18:AB:83:B1:CA:O7:33:AF:10:11:24:27:95:22:98:4E:7E
> > >>
> > >> -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
> > >> Version: 3.12
> > >> GCS$/B$/IT$/O b++ C++> D d++(--)@ DI+++
> > >> e+++ E- G L+ M N O P+ P+>+++ L+>++ PE- PGP
> > >> PS+++ R* r s:+: t-- tv ULH w+ W+++ X- Y+
> > >> !o !K E- V 5-
> > >> -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
> ---end quoted text---
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>
>

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brenda J. Butler]

And yes, this is the new (I use that term loosely : -)
general discussion list for oclug, the Linux User Group
in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

bjb


On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 07:41:19PM -0500, John Argus wrote:
> Your previous long message did make it to the mailing list. 
> 
> jna
> 
> > On Jan 31, 2021, at 14:12, Michael Goguen  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > test
> > 
> > is this a new domain for the old oclug list?  Just making sure I
> > am not somehow confusing lists or on a list I didn't subscribe
> > to...
> > 
> > I posted a longer post about some potentially contentious or
> > contraversial opinions relating to privacy security and
> > maintaining a healthy balance for users and regulators who manage
> > issues and threats online etc, it didn't seem to make the list, I
> > might repost if this one gets through, but maybe I'll just make
> > sure I"m ont the right list first...
> > 
> > it is possible I am not ... fully? subscribed to this list if
> > there was a changeover...? from the oclug domain?
> > 
> > 
> > thanks in advance.
> > 
> > 
> > Michael
> > 
> > 
> >> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:01 PM Michael Goguen  
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- Forwarded message -
> >> From: tOM Trottier 
> >> Date: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 12:37 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone
> >> To: Linux-Ottawa 
> >> Cc: Ian! D. Allen 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> See 
> >> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/01/cell-phone-location-privacy.html
> >> "“Pretty Good Phone Privacy” (PGPP) protects both user identity and user 
> >> location using the existing cellular networks. It protects users from fake 
> >> cell phone towers (IMSI-catchers) and surveillance by cell providers.
> >> It’s a clever system. The players are the user, a traditional mobile 
> >> network operator (MNO) like AT or Verizon, and a new mobile virtual 
> >> network operator (MVNO). MVNOs aren’t new. They’re intermediaries like 
> >> Cricket and Boost."
> >> 
> >> -- tOM Trottier
> >> 
> >> On 22 Jan 2021 at 13:15 re:"[linux] anyone using a privacy-prot..."
> >>  Ian! D. Allen(Ian! D. Allen ) wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Hello Linux hive-mind -
> >> >
> >> > A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her
> >> > cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
> >> > over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.
> >> >
> >> > I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
> >> > own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind
> >> > of cell phones).
> >> >
> >> > Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
> >> > using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, 
> >> > Canada
> >> > | Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: 
> >> > www.contactimprov.ca
> >> > | Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  
> >> > teaching.idallen.com
> >> > | Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  
> >> > http://fools.ca/
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
> >> > To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
> >> > To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
> >> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> tOM Trottier http://TomTrottier.com BBO:"0 carbon"
> >> +1613-860-6633 t...@abacurial.com   Skype:Abacurial
> >> MD5 Fingerprint27:B8:BA:91:70:E5:44:20:8F:29:EE:46:1E:52:F6:81
> >> SHA123:3A:53:18:AB:83:B1:CA:O7:33:AF:10:11:24:27:95:22:98:4E:7E
> >> 
> >> -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
> >> Version: 3.12
> >> GCS$/B$/IT$/O b++ C++> D d++(--)@ DI+++
> >> e+++ E- G L+ M N O P+ P+>+++ L+>++ PE- PGP
> >> PS+++ R* r s:+: t-- tv ULH w+ W+++ X- Y+
> >> !o !K E- V 5-
> >> -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
---end quoted text---

To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[John Argus]

Your previous long message did make it to the mailing list. 

jna

> On Jan 31, 2021, at 14:12, Michael Goguen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> test
> 
> is this a new domain for the old oclug list?  Just making sure I am not 
> somehow confusing lists or on a list I didn't subscribe to...
> 
> I posted a longer post about some potentially contentious or contraversial 
> opinions relating to privacy security and maintaining a healthy balance for 
> users and regulators who manage issues and threats online etc, it didn't seem 
> to make the list, I might repost if this one gets through, but maybe I'll 
> just make sure I"m ont the right list first...
> 
> it is possible I am not ... fully? subscribed to this list if there was a 
> changeover...? from the oclug domain?
> 
> 
> thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:01 PM Michael Goguen  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> -- Forwarded message -----
>> From: tOM Trottier 
>> Date: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 12:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone
>> To: Linux-Ottawa 
>> Cc: Ian! D. Allen 
>> 
>> 
>> See 
>> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/01/cell-phone-location-privacy.html
>> "“Pretty Good Phone Privacy” (PGPP) protects both user identity and user 
>> location using the existing cellular networks. It protects users from fake 
>> cell phone towers (IMSI-catchers) and surveillance by cell providers.
>> It’s a clever system. The players are the user, a traditional mobile network 
>> operator (MNO) like AT or Verizon, and a new mobile virtual network 
>> operator (MVNO). MVNOs aren’t new. They’re intermediaries like Cricket and 
>> Boost."
>> 
>> -- tOM Trottier
>> 
>> On 22 Jan 2021 at 13:15 re:"[linux] anyone using a privacy-prot..."
>>  Ian! D. Allen(Ian! D. Allen ) wrote:
>> 
>> > Hello Linux hive-mind -
>> >
>> > A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her
>> > cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
>> > over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.
>> >
>> > I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
>> > own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind
>> > of cell phones).
>> >
>> > Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
>> > using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
>> >
>> > --
>> > | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
>> > | Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: www.contactimprov.ca
>> > | Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  teaching.idallen.com
>> > | Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  http://fools.ca/
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
>> > To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
>> > To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> tOM Trottier http://TomTrottier.com BBO:"0 carbon"
>> +1613-860-6633 t...@abacurial.com   Skype:Abacurial
>> MD5 Fingerprint27:B8:BA:91:70:E5:44:20:8F:29:EE:46:1E:52:F6:81
>> SHA123:3A:53:18:AB:83:B1:CA:O7:33:AF:10:11:24:27:95:22:98:4E:7E
>> 
>> -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
>> Version: 3.12
>> GCS$/B$/IT$/O b++ C++> D d++(--)@ DI+++
>> e+++ E- G L+ M N O P+ P+>+++ L+>++ PE- PGP
>> PS+++ R* r s:+: t-- tv ULH w+ W+++ X- Y+
>> !o !K E- V 5-
>> -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Michael Goguen]

test

is this a new domain for the old oclug list?  Just making sure I am not
somehow confusing lists or on a list I didn't subscribe to...

I posted a longer post about some potentially contentious or contraversial
opinions relating to privacy security and maintaining a healthy balance for
users and regulators who manage issues and threats online etc, it didn't
seem to make the list, I might repost if this one gets through, but maybe
I'll just make sure I"m ont the right list first...

it is possible I am not ... fully? subscribed to this list if there was a
changeover...? from the oclug domain?


thanks in advance.


Michael


On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:01 PM Michael Goguen 
wrote:

>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: tOM Trottier 
> Date: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 12:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone
> To: Linux-Ottawa 
> Cc: Ian! D. Allen 
>
>
> See
> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/01/cell-phone-location-privacy.html
> "“Pretty Good Phone Privacy” (PGPP) protects both user identity and user
> location using the existing cellular networks. It protects users from fake
> cell phone towers (IMSI-catchers) and surveillance by cell providers.
> It’s a clever system. The players are the user, a traditional mobile
> network operator (MNO) like AT or Verizon, and a new mobile virtual
> network operator (MVNO). MVNOs aren’t new. They’re intermediaries like
> Cricket and Boost."
>
> -- tOM Trottier
>
> On 22 Jan 2021 at 13:15 re:"[linux] anyone using a privacy-prot..."
>  Ian! D. Allen(Ian! D. Allen ) wrote:
>
> *> Hello Linux hive-mind -*
> *> *
> *> A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her*
> *> cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking*
> *> over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.*
> *> *
> *> I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even*
> *> own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind*
> *> of cell phones).*
> *> *
> *> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to
> share*
> *> using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?*
> *> *
> *> -- *
> *> | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca 
> - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada*
> *> | Home: www.idallen.com <http://www.idallen.com>   Contact
> Improvisation Dance: www.contactimprov.ca <http://www.contactimprov.ca>*
> *> | Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:
> teaching.idallen.com <http://teaching.idallen.com>*
> *> | Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/ <http://eff.org/>  and have
> fun:  http://fools.ca/ <http://fools.ca/>*
> *> *
> *> To unsubscribe send a blank message to
> linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org *
> *> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
> *
> *> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
> <https://lists.linux-ottawa.org>*
> *> *
>
>
>
> --
> *tOM Trottier http://TomTrottier.com <http://TomTrottier.com> BBO:"0
> carbon" *
> *+1613-860-6633* *t...@abacurial.com* 
> *Skype:Abacurial*
> MD5 Fingerprint27:B8:BA:91:70:E5:44:20:8F:29:EE:46:1E:52:F6:81
> SHA123:3A:53:18:AB:83:B1:CA:O7:33:AF:10:11:24:27:95:22:98:4E:7E
>
> -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
> Version: 3.12
> GCS$/B$/IT$/O b++ C++> D d++(--)@ DI+++
> e+++ E- G L+ M N O P+ P+>+++ L+>++ PE- PGP
> PS+++ R* r s:+: t-- tv ULH w+ W+++ X- Y+
> !o !K E- V 5-
> -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
>

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[tOM Trottier]

See 
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/01/cell-phone-location-privacy.html
"“Pretty Good Phone Privacy” (PGPP) protects both user identity and user 
location using the
existing cellular networks. It protects users from fake cell phone towers 
(IMSI-catchers) and
surveillance by cell providers.
It’s a clever system. The players are the user, a traditional mobile 
network operator (MNO)
like AT or Verizon, and a new mobile virtual network operator (MVNO). 
MVNOs aren’t
new. They’re intermediaries like Cricket and Boost."

-- tOM Trottier

On 22 Jan 2021 at 13:15 re:"[linux] anyone using a privacy-prot..."
 Ian! D. Allen(Ian! D. Allen ) wrote:

> Hello Linux hive-mind -
>
> A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her
> cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
> over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.
>
> I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
> own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind
> of cell phones).
>
> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
> using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
>
> --
> | Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
> | Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: www.contactimprov.ca
> | Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  teaching.idallen.com
> | Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  http://fools.ca/
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>



--
tOM Trottier http://TomTrottier.com BBO:"0 carbon"
+1613-860-6633  t...@abacurial.com  Skype:Abacurial
MD5 Fingerprint 27:B8:BA:91:70:E5:44:20:8F:29:EE:46:1E:52:F6:81
SHA1   23:3A:53:18:AB:83:B1:CA:O7:33:AF:10:11:24:27:95:22:98:4E:7E

-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Version: 3.12
GCS$/B$/IT$/O b++ C++> D d++(--)@ DI+++
e+++ E- G L+ M N O P+ P+>+++ L+>++ PE- PGP
PS+++ R* r s:+: t-- tv ULH w+ W+++ X- Y+
!o !K E- V 5-
-END GEEK CODE BLOCK-

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Kevin Szabo]

Thanks for everyone's ideas on the gmail algorithm choking on the non-spam
message. If anyone wants to look at the headers etc of the mailing-list
message that was misidentified as spam by Gmail, I have downloaded it and
can send it to you or I can send it to the mailing list (it isn't big).

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 6:58 PM Kevin Szabo  wrote:

>
> I just found one of the replies to this thread was marked as spam.  Dunno
> why
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:54 AM James Lockie  wrote:
>
>> $799 USD for the base phoe
>> No wireless AC. :-(
>>
>> On January 23, 2021 00:06:57 "Brenda J. Butler"  wrote:
>>
>> Hello Linux hive-mind -

 Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
 using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

>>>
>>> This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:
>>>
>>> https://puri.sm/
>>>
>>> which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.
>>>
>>> I have not bought it but maybe I should.
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that the person who started the
>>> company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
>>> But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.
>>>
>>> They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
>>> is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
>>> canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
>>> a monthly basis.
>>>
>>> Looks legit.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
>>> by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.
>>>
>>> bjb
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe send a blank message to
>>> linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
>>> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
>>> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brett Delmage]

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021, FZ wrote:

Also, Ha ha, what a surprise... I might also be persuaded to set this up for 
you as a service.

Franz.


Agreed with much of what you said, and that is a good book.

Perhaps this could be one or more interesting meeting presentations 
(alternate phone ROMS, and running your own services) ?


For 10 years I've published an online news publication: a 
revenue-generating business and leading in revenue for its class. I 
specifically used Linux-based, open source tools for most of our editorial 
creation and development, online publishing, subscriber and donor 
communication and records. Also, I specifically only used Canadian 
internet services/hosting. I'd be willing to talk about that. It's not a 
full meeting worth of presentation but might fit nicely into part of a 
theme of Linux-based privacy from different perspectives.


Brett

p.s. I have not commented on it yet, but this mailing list is 
misconfigured and so unnecessarily breaks DKIM signatures. That would lead 
to properly signed messages being more likely to be tagged as spam, as was 
recently noted. If the OLS mail list operator wants to contact me I could 
possibly provide some advice on this.


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To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[FZ]

Hi... I've been lurking around OCLUG for  a while... I will offer my 
2 cents regarding privacy/phones/etc. I'm a medium to hard core techie 
and the following opinions are not only mine, but reflect some of my 
comrades on slashdot and my immediate circle of technology gurus. YMMV.


Since everybody on this thread already has sturdy tinfoil hats, I'll 
gloss over the preliminaries.


1. SERVER. ALL services are only as good as how much you trust them. How 
do you think NordVPN and the rest make their money? Do the VPN services 
REALLY not keep logs? Trust of internet services is like religion. 
There's a lot of faith required.


Therefore, If you are not running your own backend services, you really 
cannot say with certainty how private and secure your data is.


2. CLIENT/APPS. If you want privacy, you CANNOT use apple, facebook, 
google, amazon, microsoft, .. they are all raping you of your data, I 
don't know which one is the worst. Read "The Age of Surveillance 
Capitalism" by Shoshana Zuboff.


2. BLINGINESS. Having privacy and security means you will not be running 
the latest shiny object.


If you think you can have privacy and still use Google, Microsoft, etc, 
stop reading now.



What I recommend, and what I do:

Summary: setup your own client server infrastructure with all opensource 
software. Linux, Android, Nextcloud.


Ask your friends or look in your second desk drawer where you put all 
your old phones and get an older Android phone for free. Burn a custom 
rom like AEX, LineageOS. Install MicroG which is an opensource GAPPs 
replacement. (provides GPS services)


Commission NextCloud on a cheap VPS. Get your restricted set of apps 
from APKmirror.com or APKPure.com, etc. and upload them to your cloud 
storage. Install apps directly from your own repository.


Configure your client phone to talk to your services.

DONE.


Most people hate this because 1. you are not stylish, 2. you can't 
communicate with your friends on social media, 3. Your phone doesn't 
look the same as it did when you ran vanilla commercial offerings, 
whatever bundles you get from Bell, Rogers, etc.


You can't have your cake and eat it too, as they say. If you use 
Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft and every other commercial 
service available... then you will not have privacy. That is a fact of life.



Me? I don't live under a rock. I have social media accounts, etc. I read 
other sysops and so on, and Snowden summarized what we are thinking: You 
cannot fully escape online surveillance if you are a participant in 
modern society. The answer is to think in terms of "personas". Get a 
second phone. One phone is the private and secure one, for you to do 
your nefarious things on. The second one is your public persona for you 
to make a fool of yourself online.



If anybody cares to pursue this, I might be persuaded to offer more 
specs. Also, Ha ha, what a surprise... I might also be persuaded to set 
this up for you as a service.



Franz.




On 1/27/21 8:50 AM, r...@echlin.ca wrote:


You can usually see why in the headers of the email that was marked as 
spam.

Those headers are not passed to us in your reply.

The reasons shown are sometimes obscure and technical (especially if 
you are not familiar with the terms), and sometimes clear.



On 2021-01-26 18:58, Kevin Szabo wrote:

I just found one of the replies to this thread was marked as spam.  
Dunno why

image.png


On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:54 AM James Lockie > wrote:


$799 USD for the base phoe
No wireless AC. :-(
On January 23, 2021 00:06:57 "Brenda J. Butler" mailto:b...@sourcerer.ca>> wrote:

Hello Linux hive-mind -
Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are
willing to share
using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:
https://puri.sm/
which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.
I have not bought it but maybe I should.
I was under the impression that the person who started the
company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.
They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
a monthly basis.
Looks legit.
I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.
bjb
To unsubscribe send a blank message to
linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org

To get help send a blank message to
linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org 
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.or
   

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Ian E. Gorman]

Mailing lists, by their very nature, are bulk email, which is hard to
distinguish from spam.
The linux list does not put the name of the recipient in the To field.
This might bias the classification toward "spam"

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 at 04:57, Rick Leir  wrote:

> Two reasons
> 1 google dislikes privacy
> 2 technically it looks spammy
>
> On January 26, 2021 6:58:36 p.m. EST, Kevin Szabo 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I just found one of the replies to this thread was marked as spam.  Dunno
>> why
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:54 AM James Lockie  wrote:
>>
>>> $799 USD for the base phoe
>>> No wireless AC. :-(
>>>
>>> On January 23, 2021 00:06:57 "Brenda J. Butler" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Linux hive-mind -
>
> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to
> share
> using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
>

 This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:

 https://puri.sm/

 which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.

 I have not bought it but maybe I should.

 I was under the impression that the person who started the
 company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
 But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.

 They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
 is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
 canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
 a monthly basis.

 Looks legit.

 I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
 by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.

 bjb


 To unsubscribe send a blank message to
 linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
 To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
 To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

>>>
>>>
> --
> Sorry for being brief. Alternate email is rickleir at yahoo dot com
>


-- 
__
Ian Earl Gorman | //www.gorman.ca/ | //web.ncf.ca/iegorman/
//github.com/iegorman/ | //www.linkedin.com/in/iegorman/

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[rob]

You can usually see why in the headers of the email that was marked as 
spam.

Those headers are not passed to us in your reply.

The reasons shown are sometimes obscure and technical (especially if you 
are not familiar with the terms), and sometimes clear.


On 2021-01-26 18:58, Kevin Szabo wrote:

I just found one of the replies to this thread was marked as spam.  
Dunno why


On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:54 AM James Lockie  
wrote:


$799 USD for the base phoe
No wireless AC. :-(

On January 23, 2021 00:06:57 "Brenda J. Butler"  
wrote:


Hello Linux hive-mind -

Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to 
share

using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:

https://puri.sm/

which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.

I have not bought it but maybe I should.

I was under the impression that the person who started the
company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.

They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
a monthly basis.

Looks legit.

I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.

bjb

To unsubscribe send a blank message to 
linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org

To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.or [1]



Links:
--
[1] https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Rick Leir]

Two reasons
1 google dislikes privacy
2 technically it looks spammy

On January 26, 2021 6:58:36 p.m. EST, Kevin Szabo  wrote:
>I just found one of the replies to this thread was marked as spam. 
>Dunno
>why
>
>[image: image.png]
>
>
>On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:54 AM James Lockie 
>wrote:
>
>> $799 USD for the base phoe
>> No wireless AC. :-(
>>
>> On January 23, 2021 00:06:57 "Brenda J. Butler" 
>wrote:
>>
>> Hello Linux hive-mind -

 Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to
>share
 using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

>>>
>>> This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:
>>>
>>> https://puri.sm/
>>>
>>> which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.
>>>
>>> I have not bought it but maybe I should.
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that the person who started the
>>> company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
>>> But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.
>>>
>>> They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
>>> is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
>>> canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
>>> a monthly basis.
>>>
>>> Looks legit.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
>>> by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.
>>>
>>> bjb
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe send a blank message to
>linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
>>> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
>>> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>>>
>>
>>

-- 
Sorry for being brief. Alternate email is rickleir at yahoo dot com 

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Kevin Szabo]

I just found one of the replies to this thread was marked as spam.  Dunno
why

[image: image.png]


On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:54 AM James Lockie  wrote:

> $799 USD for the base phoe
> No wireless AC. :-(
>
> On January 23, 2021 00:06:57 "Brenda J. Butler"  wrote:
>
> Hello Linux hive-mind -
>>>
>>> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
>>> using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?
>>>
>>
>> This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:
>>
>> https://puri.sm/
>>
>> which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.
>>
>> I have not bought it but maybe I should.
>>
>> I was under the impression that the person who started the
>> company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
>> But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.
>>
>> They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
>> is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
>> canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
>> a monthly basis.
>>
>> Looks legit.
>>
>> I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
>> by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.
>>
>> bjb
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
>> To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
>> To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org
>>
>
>

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[James Lockie]

$799 USD for the base phoe
No wireless AC. :-(

On January 23, 2021 00:06:57 "Brenda J. Butler"  wrote:


Hello Linux hive-mind -

Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?


This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:

https://puri.sm/

which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.

I have not bought it but maybe I should.

I was under the impression that the person who started the
company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.

They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
a monthly basis.

Looks legit.

I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.

bjb


To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Shawn H Corey]

On 2021-01-23 12:06 a.m., Brenda J. Butler wrote:

Hello Linux hive-mind -

Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:

https://puri.sm/

which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.

I have not bought it but maybe I should.


A review of Purism Librem 5 phone by Short Circuit of Linus Tech Tips. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH8DRyKUZDg

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brenda J. Butler]

Here's the Toronto company:

https://copperhead.co/#hardware

bjb

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Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brenda J. Butler]

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:48:53AM -0500, Brenda J. Butler wrote:
> I also put ClockWorkMod as the recovery image.  It worked well.

Oh man - another correction.  I settled on TWRP – an alternative to
ClockworkMod Recovery

bjb

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Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brenda J. Butler]

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:48:53AM -0500, Brenda J. Butler wrote:
> But unless you were
> willing to muck about with apk packaging, you had to use the Google Play
> store.

I am wrong!  There is FDroid.  I had forgotten.

bjb

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To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brenda J. Butler]

When I had a real android smartphone, I put LineageOS (previously CyanogenMod)
on it.  So it was less offensive than plain android.  But unless you were
willing to muck about with apk packaging, you had to use the Google Play
store.

It was a bit of a pain to find and install apk packages.

Not all phones can run it.  I researched and bought phones that could
run it.

I also put ClockWorkMod as the recovery image.  It worked well.

bjb

To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brenda J. Butler]

> Hello Linux hive-mind -
> 
> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
> using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

This request eventually reminded me about the Purism phone:

https://puri.sm/

which purports to be a ground-up phone OS designed for privacy.

I have not bought it but maybe I should.

I was under the impression that the person who started the
company was in Toronto but they are based in the States now.
But that is a vague memory and may be entirely false.

They don't have social media icons.  Their web page (front page)
is served from one server (impressive!).  They have a warrant
canary page and two people gpg-sign a message for that page on
a monthly basis.

Looks legit.

I'm guessing they are expensive as they are not subsidized
by Big Tech.  Haven't seen prices yet.

bjb


To unsubscribe send a blank message to linux+unsubscr...@linux-ottawa.org
To get help send a blank message to linux+h...@linux-ottawa.org
To visit the archives: https://lists.linux-ottawa.org

Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brenda J. Butler]

While I haven't looked at all the small low-end phones out there
so I can't say if this is true of all of them -

my flip-phone is low-powered but still a "smartphone".

It is the Alcatel Myflip mumble405thing and runs KaiOS rather
than Android or iOS.

It has a browser and if you wait long enough it loads most
pages (even ones with javascript).  Also some other apps
like contacts, notes, music/podcast player, calculator,
SMS/messaging, radio, etc.

So - just because it's a flipphone doesn't mean it's not capable
of smartphone stuff.

On the plus side - it seems to only run one app at a time : -)
so maybe it will slow down the big corporation trackers.  Heh.

Not sure about the "not tracking you" but for "physically
modular" and "repairable by end user" you can look for the fairphone.
Last I heard they only sold in Europe though.   Eww, I see they
now have one of those odious "dim-the-page-till-the-user-agrees-to-
accept-the-cookie-policy" pages.

Given corporations use other tech to track people now - I wish those
cookie warnings would go away.

bjb

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Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Brett Delmage]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021, Ian! D. Allen wrote:


Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?


Cell phone? Privacy? Doesn't track you? Ha, thanks for the laugh on a 
Friday!


Actually, that's not entirely true. An Apple cell phone might be a bit 
private if you don't install most apps, don't enable the GPS receiver, 
also disable app location access, and don't install a SIM card to access 
the cell phone network unless you want to be subjected to police and MIB's 
stingrays and court-approved production orders.


Then run wifi (only) over your own private VPN, and block Apple server 
connections on that. If you want to use the cell phone for voice calls, 
install something like Groundwire (VOIP softphone) and send your comms to 
the telephone networks -- however private that is. not.


This is what I do.

For those using Apple phones, I highly recommend running Firefox with 
tracking protection at the highest level. Mozilla Focus is a great 
adjunct, which also seems to block the Ottawa Citizen and other sites' 
RTSP video. (I am always pleased when I pull up a Youtube video on my phone and YT 
recommends kids shows and pop culture crap.)


I'm not an Apple fan in partcular but it was a significantly better 
privacy starting point than Android, which is built from the bottom up to 
spy on users. Some day I'll get a cheap rootable android phone and install 
something more secure on that too.


Of course all this is still not private.

Or get a pinephone then log into Facebook all the time and use Google for 
your search engine and Google maps for route planning. For good measure, 
register your Presto card with your name and financial info. Or save the 
hassle and just get a modern motor vehicle with extensive tracking and 
reporting built in! As a lifelong cyclist I never imagined the day where 
riding a bike would be one the most untrackable ways to travel besides 
walking.


Be sure to use your rewards card and pay with your debit or credit card 
too.


To keep this really Linux-focussed, for those of you who don't know yet 
Ubuntu was booted to the full gnome desktop on an iPhone 7 about 10 days 
ago, although it is not fully functional yet (early days).


https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/kvmsfd/success_iphone_7_booting_ubuntu_2004_to_full/

But then: "broadband processor". 
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/170874-the-secret-second-operating-system-that-could-make-every-mobile-phone-insecure


Anyway, why would your friend not want to be "tracked" given all the 
benefits that a customized and highly networked experience brings. Do they 
have something to hide?


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Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Dianne Skoll]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 13:15:52 -0500
"Ian! D. Allen"  wrote:

> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to
> share using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

Does your friend need a smartphone?  If all she needs is a phone that
can make calls and do basic texting, then maybe a dumb phone along
the lines of one of these will do the trick:

https://www.cellphones.ca/cell-phones/p/best-basic-phone-10094/

Regards,

Dianne.

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Re: [linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Mail]

I've been lurking here for awhile and have no idea how to use the
mailing list so please excuse me if I've made a mistake.

On 2021-01-22 1:15 p.m., Ian! D. Allen wrote:
> Hello Linux hive-mind -
>
> A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her
> cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
> over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.
>
> I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
> own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind
> of cell phones).
>
> Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
> using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

I own 3 PinePhones now https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ They're a
good cheap Linux phone that has nothing to do with Apple or Google.
However, they're not ready for non-tech users and can be considered
"beta". They just recently got the phone to sleep correctly giving you
more than 2 hours of battery time. On top of this, things like MMSes
dont work out of the box, browsing the web is quite clunky. I am hopeful
for their future so maybe keep an eye on them?

I also use a Google Pixel3 with GrapheneOS. https://grapheneos.org/ but
any android device that supports an ASOP rom (For example LineageOS
without gapps) should be pretty dependable.


If you do go with the Pixel devices you have to get it directly from
google, which may not be ideal. The ones from carriers (telus, rogers,
etc) are locked so you cant install other roms.


Cheers,
Andrew




0xBBC21B02889AEF4F.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys

[linux] anyone using a privacy-protecting cell phone

[Ian! D. Allen]

Hello Linux hive-mind -

A non-tech friend is trying to get out from under Apple and set up her
cell phone and computers without Microsoft, Google, or Apple looking
over her shoulder.  She is concerned about tracking and privacy.

I can give her help with her future Linux desktop, but I don't even
own a cell phone so I can't advise on "Linux" cell phones (or any kind
of cell phones).

Anyone out there in Linux-land with experience they are willing to share
using a cell phone with good privacy that doesn't track you?

-- 
| Ian! D. Allen, BA, MMath  -  idal...@idallen.ca - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
| Home: www.idallen.com   Contact Improvisation Dance: www.contactimprov.ca
| Former college professor (Free/Libre GNU+Linux) at:  teaching.idallen.com
| Defend digital freedom:  http://eff.org/  and have fun:  http://fools.ca/

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