Re: Reiser
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're missing our point, Erik. Making a change, whether Good or Ill, eliminates the support that our employers have PAID FOR. That means no support for the rest of the kernel that remained UNchanged. Not only the kernel itself, also the other commercial middleware and applications that you run there. SAP for example has a very short list of certified kernels. I do know some installations have chosen not to buy support of a distribution partner but maintain skills inside the company to support their own Debian systems. No because that kernel is so much better, but because they can massage the entire provisioning and system administration process better. That is a business decision rather than a technical one, as Mark Post points out. And techies like us rarely are expected to make those. -Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Rob van der Heij wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not only the kernel itself, also the other commercial middleware and applications that you run there. SAP for example has a very short list of certified kernels. It's not so short, so long as its either SLES or RHEL ;-) mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
I'm with Mark here. We run 24/7 with somewhere around 170,000 law enforcement agencies relying on this system. We have stringent configuration control and even though we can get around that (if we have to) temporarily (for emergency fixes), we ALWAYS back end the fixes back into configuration management. I suspect any large shop will do exactly the same things. We cannot afford to have people monkeying around with kernels etc. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik N Johnson Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:17 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Reiser Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. Or roll your own completely from scratch. If you don't have a reason to build a kernel, don't. But if you have a computer capable of amazing feats of virtualization and there's something to be gained by making a change IPL a whole new kernel. Make your changes in that one. It's sand-boxed, right? Nothing is permanent here. Nobody is asking you to put your entire clientele at the mercy of some experiment. If this kind of talk makes you wince then you're right to think I should just go with the program that comes in the box that my vendor provides and not ask any questions or poke any holes in anything. If you don't have people actually programming for a mainframe on a mainframe this doesn't make any sense either. I guess my question would have to be: In an environment where changes cost people money and people are making unnecessary changes, why are you worried about reining them in? FIRE THEM. You don't praise accountants for creativity. If somebody is trying to use your very expensive machinery to solve a problem in a new and interesting way that is going to make your company money though, that's when I'm confused about why you would ever rein in the creative process. Programmers DO create things, after all. Erik Johnson On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:40 PM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Altmark wrote: On Monday, 07/14/2008 at 05:55 EDT, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. It's not a question of difficulty. When you build your own kernel, the support you get from the distributors evaporates. Corporate customers need someone to flog in case things go bad, ergo no custom kernels by policy. Perhaps the distributors are more tolerant of custom kernels on other platforms - I don't know. Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 14, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Erik N Johnson wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. Agreed, but that's not the point. The point is, if you go to your distributor-from-whom-you're-buying- support, and report a problem, if you can't replicate it on the stock kernel, they're not going to help you with it. Which sort of invalidates the idea of having bought the support in the first place. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 14, 2008, at 7:25 PM, John Summerfield wrote: Michael MacIsaac wrote: But just the fact that the community *can* pick up the source code does not mean it will happen. ReiserFS has migrated its development from the NameSys servers to kernel.org where work is continuing. Edward Shinkin and others continue to develop the filesystem in spite of Hans Reiser's murder conviction - From Linux Journal, August 2008, p.16 When? One presumes that the August issue actually comes out some time in July. That's not unusual. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 15, 2008, at 2:30 AM, Rob van der Heij wrote: I do know some installations have chosen not to buy support of a distribution partner but maintain skills inside the company to support their own Debian systems. No because that kernel is so much better, but because they can massage the entire provisioning and system administration process better. That is a business decision rather than a technical one, as Mark Post points out. And techies like us rarely are expected to make those. I'd like to point out--and please pardon the advertisement--that if you want to run Debian on s390, but don't have the in-house resources, Sine Nomine Associates would be *DELIGHTED* to sell you a support contract. That's because I *adore* Debian, I've spent a lot of time working with the Debian project to make sure that s390 was included in Sarge and Etch, and because selling support for it fits our usual support business model very well. However: Sine Nomine is not a major Linux distributor. We're on friendly terms with a lot of the Open Source world, but we're not Red Hat or Novell. And running commercial applications on Debian can be difficult (esp. on s390!), and we don't actually support *that* (basically, if it's in Debian main, no problem, and otherwise, ask us on a case-by-case basis). If what you need is infrastructure and Open Source software stack support, though (not limited to Debian), we'd be happy to be the throats you can choke. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
One presumes that the August issue actually comes out some time in July. That's not unusual. Correct. What I wrote was the entire text of the blurb in the diff -u column. Mike MacIsaac [EMAIL PROTECTED] (845) 433-7061 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? Thanks, Jon snip I'd like to point out--and please pardon the advertisement--that if you want to run Debian on s390, but don't have the in-house resources, Sine Nomine Associates would be *DELIGHTED* to sell you a support contract. That's because I *adore* Debian, I've spent a lot of time working with the Debian project to make sure that s390 was included in Sarge and Etch, and because selling support for it fits our usual support business model very well. /snip -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
alphaWorks : JinsightLive for IBM System z : Overview
Interesting. This is to profile Java applications on the z. Both z/OS and z/Linux are supported for profiling. The visualization part runs on either Windows or Linux. quote This tool helps Java(tm) developers on System z(r) to profile complex programs. Today's Java applications often use third-party libraries, open-source libraries, and application-specific code; and it is not uncommon to see traces with tens of millions of events. The biggest challenge is to find the bottlenecks in the execution. JinsightLive for IBM(r) System z's combination of interactive live tracing and the Jinsight execution view enables the user to handle this type of complexity. /quote http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/jinsightlive/?openS_TACT=105AGX03S_ CMP=HPca=daw-jlz-01202008 tinyurl to the above: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6nbjtq -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Adding a CPU in SLES10
That worked great. Thanks! Mark Post wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:11 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jim Fujimoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, I want to dynamically add a cpu to a single cpu SLES10 SP1 server. If this were a SLES9 server I would echo a 1 into /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/online, but only the ../cpu0 directory exists on the SLES10 server. Has the method to do this changed? Yes. The kernel no longer defines 32 CPUs, whether they're available or not. Absent any kernel parms, it detects how many are present, and defines the control blocks for just that amount. If you want to have the ability to dynamically add more later, you have to use the possible_cpus=n kernel parm, where n is the maximum number you anticipate wanting. You can find more information in /usr/src/linux/Documentation/cpu-hotplug.txt Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Jim Fujimoto County of Los Angeles -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
RedHat uses rpm files for package management - debian uses deb files. There are lots of package managers but the dpkg command is much like the rpm command. You can also use apt-get - which is somewhat like yum. To me, the package management is the most obvious difference - I'm sure there are others, but the first thing I ran into was how to install/use the packages and mgmt tools. Scott On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
I've ready that Ubuntu is significantly different from the Debian it's based on, but I don't know exactly how. Recent Ubuntu releases' startup and system service control mechanisms are very different from Red Hat/Fedora's. Major distos such as Ubuntu and Red Hat/Fedora often have their own patches which make their version of some packages (e.g. the kernel) different from the generic version of the same release of that piece of software. Those patches may or may not eventually find their way into that piece of software'd core. E.G. Fedora has had a patch to make the root= kernel boot parameter allow identifying the root device by its volume label, instead of its device address, but the vanilla kernel doesn't recognize it (or didn't, the last time I tried it). Some distros have used different locations for the same software. E.G. Red Hat has always put KDE in /usr, but SuSE used to put it in /opt (I have not looked at a recent version, so I don't know whether it still does that, or not). There are an increasing number of standards (e.g. Linux Standard Base) which seek to reduce the differences between distributions. Try checking your local bookstore. There are a few magazines which devote a whole issue to a particular distribution and talk about installing and using it. I know that SAMS Publishing produces the XXX Unleashed books for several major distros, O'Reilly has a similar series, and so does at least one other publisher. I can't say how good any of them are -- the last time I bought one of those books was before the old Red Hat 7 came out. Douglas On 07/15/2008 02:13:36 PM Scott Rohling wrote: RedHat uses rpm files for package management - debian uses deb files. There are lots of package managers but the dpkg command is much like the rpm command. You can also use apt-get - which is somewhat like yum. To me, the package management is the most obvious difference - I'm sure there are others, but the first thing I ran into was how to install/use the packages and mgmt tools. Scott On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: DFDSS Backups
Better check to see if the DFDSS Standalone restore supports CPVOLUME before going to far into the abyss! - Original Message - From: Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: Re: DFDSS Backups On Wednesday, 06/25/2008 at 01:26 EDT, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:41 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Walters, Gene P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- I don't know that they use CPFORMAT to format the DASD before telling me it's available. Should they? Yes, since that is what will make the volume available to z/OS. Actually, you can format any CP volume from z/OS. A user volume (one that does NOT contain directory, T-disks, parm disks, paging, spooling, or other CP-managed extents) can be formatted by ICKDSF CPVOLUME or INIT on z/OS, as CP only looks at the volser on a standard VOL1 label. For CP-owned disks, you should format it using ICKDSF CPVOLUME FORMAT. I believe that CPVOLUME and INIT do not write the same style of VTOC. A CPVOLUME will appear to have no available space. An INITed volume, OTOH, appears empty except for the catalog. (I'm too lazy to test that theory.) So while you CAN init with INIT, you SHOULD init with CPVOLUME. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
There is also a port of rpm to debian. You can therefor install rpm packages on debian, allowing you to deploy commercial software which is available only in rpm format. And since both debian and redhat are in fact GNU/Linux and therefor CAN present exactly the same environment to applications (not saying they do by default, they do not) so it's guaranteed that it CAN work (with enough mucking about.) But be warned, there be dragons here. Big ones. I also guarantee you nobody is going to support running an application intended for redhat on debian. Erik Johnson On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Douglas Wooster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've ready that Ubuntu is significantly different from the Debian it's based on, but I don't know exactly how. Recent Ubuntu releases' startup and system service control mechanisms are very different from Red Hat/Fedora's. Major distos such as Ubuntu and Red Hat/Fedora often have their own patches which make their version of some packages (e.g. the kernel) different from the generic version of the same release of that piece of software. Those patches may or may not eventually find their way into that piece of software'd core. E.G. Fedora has had a patch to make the root= kernel boot parameter allow identifying the root device by its volume label, instead of its device address, but the vanilla kernel doesn't recognize it (or didn't, the last time I tried it). Some distros have used different locations for the same software. E.G. Red Hat has always put KDE in /usr, but SuSE used to put it in /opt (I have not looked at a recent version, so I don't know whether it still does that, or not). There are an increasing number of standards (e.g. Linux Standard Base) which seek to reduce the differences between distributions. Try checking your local bookstore. There are a few magazines which devote a whole issue to a particular distribution and talk about installing and using it. I know that SAMS Publishing produces the XXX Unleashed books for several major distros, O'Reilly has a similar series, and so does at least one other publisher. I can't say how good any of them are -- the last time I bought one of those books was before the old Red Hat 7 came out. Douglas On 07/15/2008 02:13:36 PM Scott Rohling wrote: RedHat uses rpm files for package management - debian uses deb files. There are lots of package managers but the dpkg command is much like the rpm command. You can also use apt-get - which is somewhat like yum. To me, the package management is the most obvious difference - I'm sure there are others, but the first thing I ran into was how to install/use the packages and mgmt tools. Scott On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
