Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject:Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by:Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ inline: graycol.gif
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
so is this guy a troll or just someone clueless (and i'm tryin to be nice). And I assume that Alan is behind the wood shed counciling... Considering Oracle is extremely virtual friendly where DB2 is completely virtual hostile (polling at 200,000 times a second was for High Availability or something silly). Considering MANY positive experiences presented around the world for Oracle, and zero for DB2, i just better stop. Christopher Cox wrote: Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject:Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by:Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ attachment: BARTON.vcf
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
I suspect, I'm unfortunately not a fly on the wall, that Oracle simply wants to sell their newly acquired hardware 'division', Sun. But that is only speculation. This almost looks like a strong shove away from the hardware they can't handle, apparently. I can just see Jack Nickelson screaming to Larry, 'You can't handle the mainframe!!' (except for zO$, I guess it's $upported.) Unfortunately, the application we bought must use Oracle, at least that's my understanding. So that kind of messes with using DB2 as a replacement. The application we are gearing up will be very heavily used, 60+ sites, all with very frequent updates. So, we need the power of the mainframe IFLs and i/o system. But if Oracle doesn't get their support/certification in gear we may have to consider something less than what we were expecting and it would be similar to what is happening in James shop. We'll cross that road when we get to it. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Christopher Cox Sent: Wed 3/23/2011 11:11 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject:Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by:Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
Apparently someone's reality is some other alternate universe. The real issue, not being a technical one, is the political-management error of listening to DBAs with some other unreal agenda. That's really the shocking part of the story. And using that part to serve as fact, is my issue with this. I know that Oracle on Linux can work well, and that's the truth. zNorman -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Barton Robinson Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 Wednesday 8:58 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? so is this guy a troll or just someone clueless (and i'm tryin to be nice). And I assume that Alan is behind the wood shed counciling... Considering Oracle is extremely virtual friendly where DB2 is completely virtual hostile (polling at 200,000 times a second was for High Availability or something silly). Considering MANY positive experiences presented around the world for Oracle, and zero for DB2, i just better stop. Christopher Cox wrote: Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
Works *very* well here. Patrick Carroll | Technology Architect II L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Christopher Cox Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:12 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject:Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by:Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
I have Oracle 10g R 2 running on zLinux. I really haven't had many problems with it. But I always wondered Is there an application related reason that they need the latest, greatest release of Oracle, some new bell or whistle or were they just reading the latest trade rag? My gut says that the Open Systems types always needs the latest software in order to support the latest hardware, which changes frequently. Just how often are there mainframe hardware changes made that an application, or middleware is aware of? Hipersockets? Dataspaces? 64 bit addressing? Anything else? Here, I can't get anyone interested in new releases. They are very happy as is. G About 5 years ago or so, I think it was Oracle that stated that not every release will be available for the mainframe. However, they will support the mainframe releases longer than they normally do to keep in line with the mainframe methods. Not that I was watching, but I didn't hear about loads of mainframes replacing DB2/UDB 9.5 with DB2/UDB 9.7. At some point, I expect to have Oracle 11 up and running. It would be concurrent with 10 g, most likely for years. Easy with zLinux. Sometimes that can be a bad thing also G. Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting (of course I still have some SLES7 images running) Simms, Michael michael.si...@hma.com 3/23/2011 11:09 AM I suspect, I'm unfortunately not a fly on the wall, that Oracle simply wants to sell their newly acquired hardware 'division', Sun. But that is only speculation. This almost looks like a strong shove away from the hardware they can't handle, apparently. I can just see Jack Nickelson screaming to Larry, 'You can't handle the mainframe!!' (except for zO$, I guess it's $upported.) Unfortunately, the application we bought must use Oracle, at least that's my understanding. So that kind of messes with using DB2 as a replacement. The application we are gearing up will be very heavily used, 60+ sites, all with very frequent updates. So, we need the power of the mainframe IFLs and i/o system. But if Oracle doesn't get their support/certification in gear we may have to consider something less than what we were expecting and it would be similar to what is happening in James shop. We'll cross that road when we get to it. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Christopher Cox Sent: Wed 3/23/2011 11:11 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject:Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by:Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
The poster must have been confusing our world with vmware. Grins. We are supported. Echoing Barton Oracle runs *VERY WELL*. IBM has experts that will come in tune the LIVING DAYLIGHTS out of Oracle - including reaching back and repairing crummy SQL statements. I have witnessed one SQL statement tuned resulting in saving 40% of an IFL. The IBM Oracle team including Gaylan Braselton, David Simpson and Sam Avesalu to name a few are highly skilled and helpful. I have had clients successfully running hundreds of LOZ Oracle virtual machines decide that windows was the solution to all problems. It is religo politico - cannot argue with that type of vaporized logic. David Original Message Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? From: Pat Carroll pcarr...@llbean.com Date: Wed, March 23, 2011 1:30 pm To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Works *very* well here. Patrick Carroll | Technology Architect II L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Christopher Cox Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:12 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
On Wednesday, 03/23/2011 at 12:09 EDT, Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com wrote: so is this guy a troll or just someone clueless (and i'm tryin to be nice). And I assume that Alan is behind the wood shed counciling... I will graciously assume that you were referring to some other Alan, since I am not involved in any such woodshed-induced behavior. I find that the choice of database server is based more on politics, vendor certifications, and available in-house expertise than on any technical merit. Alan Altmark z/VM and Linux on System z Consultant IBM System Lab Services and Training ibm.com/systems/services/labservices office: 607.429.3323 mobile; 607.321.7556 alan_altm...@us.ibm.com IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
We have moved a 7TB Oracle data base from Solaris to z/Linux along with the applications that access the data base and other than some startup issues we have had no problems. In fact the applications have never run better. Now I will say if you just move the data bases up and do nothing to tune them you are going to have problems. We took a lot of time up front to make sure that the Data Base was efficient. When we first got it up on z/Linux it was not performing very well at all constant issues with performance and such. We found that the data base needed some work like additional indexes, and some other Oracle parameter changes. We are in the process of moving about 28 data base servers from Solaris to z/Linux which represents about 108 data bases of all sizes. Now I can tell you that we did have some support challenges with Oracle on z initially, but the customers upper management has engaged Oracle's upper management and have ironed most of the issues. Oracle is working right along with us in this conversion effort and has committed to Oracle on z. Since our POC with 3 z/Linux guests in 2008 we now have 110 z/Linux guests running on z and we have had very few issues. It took some work up front a lot tuning and such but at this point I believe if you asked the end users if they wanted to go back to mid-tier they would give you an emphatic NO. I would say don't be too quick to throw your hands up on this. With patients and some work up front you can have yourself a well running environment backed by arguably the most reliable, accessible, and stable Virtual environment around, the mainframe running z/VM and z/Linux, not to mention the I/O capabilities of the mainframe are unparalleled. Thank You, Terry Martin Lockheed Martin CMS - CITIC 3300 Lord Baltimore Drive, Suite 200, 21244 Engineering Computing Mainframe Support Cell - 443 632-4191 -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of David Kreuter Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 3:48 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? The poster must have been confusing our world with vmware. Grins. We are supported. Echoing Barton Oracle runs *VERY WELL*. IBM has experts that will come in tune the LIVING DAYLIGHTS out of Oracle - including reaching back and repairing crummy SQL statements. I have witnessed one SQL statement tuned resulting in saving 40% of an IFL. The IBM Oracle team including Gaylan Braselton, David Simpson and Sam Avesalu to name a few are highly skilled and helpful. I have had clients successfully running hundreds of LOZ Oracle virtual machines decide that windows was the solution to all problems. It is religo politico - cannot argue with that type of vaporized logic. David Original Message Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? From: Pat Carroll pcarr...@llbean.com Date: Wed, March 23, 2011 1:30 pm To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Works *very* well here. Patrick Carroll | Technology Architect II L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Christopher Cox Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:12 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Oracle is NOT supporting them well on zLinux. So... there's both the financial and technical reason. Why would anyone stay with a platform that is not well supported? Oracle couldn't handle it, so they are moving. Now... certainly the false mindset issue surrounding mainframes is an issue... but I'd probably move Oracle too if they weren't willing to address support issues in a timely manner. Maybe it's time to change your database supplier?? You know, if if you have to move it, I wonder if moving to something a bit more heavy duty, like a IBM Power7 box was even considered... If DB2 isn't an option, maybe Oracle on Power7 would be a better fit (saying without knowledge of Oracle's commitment of support there as well). From: Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Date: 03/18/2011 04:04 PM Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
Hi James , There is a couple information that should be knowing before someone take some strange decision like that . The first is your machine model and size of the linux guest , and also the number of linux guest running at the same lpar . About the Oracle slow response , that would really depends of the problem , maybe the same slow response could be happening at all other platforms . Although did they contact IBM representative about that . Sometimes IBM have quicker response them the ISVs, because of the large experience . One important point to consider is the cost of Oracle licenses for intel plataform . The cost are much higher . Best Regards, Saulo Augusto Silva . 2011/3/18 CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) james.chap...@associates.dhs.gov We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
Especially with 11R2 due out any minute (day). Gerard -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Barton Robinson Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:03 PM To: LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
We are about to put into production, once we have gotten our multipath (failover) issues resolved with EMC, Oracle 10. We had to step back to SLES 10 SP3+ due to Oracles glacial speed with certification of Oracle 11 on zLinux. Also, the application only runs on Oracle 10, I imagine for the same reason. On a brighter note: Our DB2 on zLinux, the latest DB2 for zLinux, is running in test, again we await a resolution of multipathing (failover) issues with our EMC SAN before we make it production. I share your pain. It took us a long time to convince our management that consolidating/introducing Linux images on the z was a good idea. So far we (well, I) aren't disappointed. The part that sorta called off the nay sayers or hushed them up was when we ran a nightly flow that runs on a pSeries (multiple CPUs, same DS4700 subsystem) on Linux/DB2 that ran 5 times faster on our 1 IFL. Hmmm...hard to argue with that. :-) Just my opinion but it sounds to me like someone lost a bet or a poker game where the loser had to give up their platform for Oracle. Just a WAG, but sounds about as reasonable. When management makes decisions like the one you describe, well it leaves me speechless! At least for a little while. I wish you a good outcome. Michael Simms Systems Programmer zSeries VM, VSE, (z)Linux, AIX Naples Campus, Florida 239-552-3479 Enabling America's Best Local Healthcare Please consider the environment before printing this email and SAVE A TREE. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:22 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a zLinux Application group planning meeting at our worksite. The DBA advised us that they (Database group) were going to move/migrate all the Oracle databases that we have on zLinux boxes off to an intel/unix platform. He did not offer details of the hardware, or when or how, just that they were going to do it. This is a bite of a surprise as we have just moved our MQ off the Mainframe (zOS) to the zLinux platform (guests on zVM) and that move is doing well. This may be due in part to the false mindset that we have in our upper management at our site that Mainframes are old technology. Also we have had slow response from Oracle on resolving issues we have identify (certifying Oracle 11 on z390x architecture, getting Oracle 10 support for RHEL 5.0 on z390x architecture). Has anyone else on this list had any related war stories similar to what we may be about to experience as this move takes place? James Chaplin Systems Programmer, MVS, zVM zLinux -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ attachment: BARTON.vcf
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
inline: graycol.gifinline: pic26058.gifinline: ecblank.gifattachment: BARTON.vcf
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
It's government, what do you expect ;-) James Chaplin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Barton Robinson Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:03 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a . . . . -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field?
Value for your dollars, OMG, silly me, you said government forget that. Doesn't happen William 'Doug' Carroll -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:19 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? It's government, what do you expect ;-) James Chaplin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Barton Robinson Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:03 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Moving Oracle off zLinux boxes -- comments from the field? wow, your DBAs have the authority to spend that kind of money and make that kind of change without management signature? So no financial analysis, no technical reason, sounds religious. CHAPLIN, JAMES (CTR) wrote: We just had a surprise announcement by one of the Oracle DBAs during a . . . . -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of JPMorgan Chase Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for disclosures relating to European legal entities. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/
