Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread John McKown
This is not a SUNOS forum. But from what I know of sftp there is no option
to convert to EBCDIC. Now, if you are going to a z/OS system, there is a 3rd
party enhancement available from Dovetailed Technologies which does the
conversion. Google that name and sftp. I can't cut and paste on my
smartphone.

--
John McKown
Maranatha! 
Sent from my Vibrant Android phone.

On Jun 14, 2011 6:03 AM, Sundaram, Parthasarthy 
parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote:

Hi  Team,

 Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
requesting you to help me on my below queries.

i)  In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
mode.
ii) Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
iii)I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
during the EBCDIC conversion.

It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.

Parthasarathy Sundaram
Mphasis an HP company
Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
Chennai-89
Mob: 91 9176663227
parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com




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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread Scott Rohling
Did you use 'ebcdic' or 'ibm' for conversion type on the dd command?
Whichever you used, you might want to try and use the other and see if
results change.

Scott Rohling

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Sundaram, Parthasarthy 
parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote:

 Hi  Team,

  Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
 requesting you to help me on my below queries.

 i)  In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
 mode.
 ii) Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
 outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
 iii)I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
 to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
 me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
 missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
 during the EBCDIC conversion.

 It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.

 Parthasarathy Sundaram
 Mphasis an HP company
 Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
 Chennai-89
 Mob: 91 9176663227
 parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com




 --
 For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
 visit
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 --
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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread Scott Rohling
I'm not sure this will make a difference -- I misread the table .. and the
LF characters are the same in ebcdic or ibm..
You may need to use 'tr' or some other translate function after the dd.

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.comwrote:

 Did you use 'ebcdic' or 'ibm' for conversion type on the dd command?
 Whichever you used, you might want to try and use the other and see if
 results change.

 Scott Rohling


 On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Sundaram, Parthasarthy 
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote:

 Hi  Team,

  Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
 requesting you to help me on my below queries.

 i)  In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
 mode.
 ii) Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
 outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
 iii)I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
 to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
 me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
 missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
 during the EBCDIC conversion.

 It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.

 Parthasarathy Sundaram
 Mphasis an HP company
 Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
 Chennai-89
 Mob: 91 9176663227
 parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com




 --
 For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
 visit
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 --
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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread Richard Troth
I am not sure what you are asking.
Linux/390 is an ASCII system, just like Solaris (SunOS).
Linux on the mainframe needs no translation when talking to Solaris
(on any hardware).
Solaris on the mainframe needs no translation when talking to Linux
(on any hardware).

Linux/390 (and Solaris on z) can run alongside EBCDIC systems such as
z/OS, z/VM, VSE, TPF.  Those systems all have built-in means to speak
ASCII when connecting via TCP/IP.  Linux and Solaris are usually
better off *not* becoming involved in the translation.

z/VM and z/OS (and VSE, maybe TPF) support FTP.  It's not the same as
SFTP (FTP using SSH).  z/VM and z/OS also support FTPS (FTP with SSL).
 The FTP server on the EBCDIC system should handle translation of text
files.

Let the EBCDIC side do the translation.

I hope this helps.

-- R;   
Rick Troth
Velocity Software
http://www.velocitysoftware.com/





On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 01:15, Sundaram, Parthasarthy
parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote:
 Hi  Team,

  Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
 requesting you to help me on my below queries.

 i)      In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
 mode.
 ii)     Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
 outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
 iii)    I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
 to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
 me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
 missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
 during the EBCDIC conversion.

 It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.

 Parthasarathy Sundaram
 Mphasis an HP company
 Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
 Chennai-89
 Mob: 91 9176663227
 parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com




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 For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
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 --
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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread Michael Stephens
Parthasarathy ,

I am inferring that you need to FTP to or from a z/OS system.  z/VM or VSE are 
much the same.  My experience with FTP to and from z/OS is that EBCDIC to ASCII 
is automatic.  You must set BINARY on to prevent the conversion.  That may be a 
local option, however.  I've not used it, but presumably SFTP works the same.

The main issue you might have is that ordinary z/OS files have logical record 
lengths, LRECL, and not line feeds as the record terminators.  Linux source 
records longer than the z/OS destination LRECL will be truncated.  Shorter 
records will be either blank or null filled.  I don't know if the line feed 
character will be translated.  You could define a z/OS variable blocked record, 
but make sure the Linux source records are no longer than the block size, 
BLKSIZE.  Going from z/OS to Linux or Windows is generally not such a problem.

Also, watch out for numeric field conversions.  Some of the many z/OS numeric 
formats may not convert the way you wish.  It is generally better to create the 
source files with numbers in display format, without commas, and 
programmatically convert them.

I hope this helps,
Michael Stephens


-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott 
Rohling
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 8:49 AM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

I'm not sure this will make a difference -- I misread the table .. and the LF 
characters are the same in ebcdic or ibm..
You may need to use 'tr' or some other translate function after the dd.

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.comwrote:

 Did you use 'ebcdic' or 'ibm' for conversion type on the dd command?
 Whichever you used, you might want to try and use the other and see if
 results change.

 Scott Rohling


 On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Sundaram, Parthasarthy 
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote:

 Hi  Team,

  Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
 requesting you to help me on my below queries.

 i)  In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
 mode.
 ii) Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
 outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
 iii)I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
 to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please
 let me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
 missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
 during the EBCDIC conversion.

 It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.

 Parthasarathy Sundaram
 Mphasis an HP company
 Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
 Chennai-89
 Mob: 91 9176663227
 parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com




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 - For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390
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 http://wiki.linuxvm.org/




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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread John McKown
I didn't notice the dd portion of the question. The problem, to IBM at
least on z/OS, the end-of-line character is not a LineFeed (EBCDIC 0x25)
but a NewLine (EBCDIC 0x15). dd converts 0x0a to 0x25 and not 0x15.

On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 10:45 +0530, Sundaram, Parthasarthy wrote:
 Hi  Team,

   Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
 requesting you to help me on my below queries.

 i)In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
 mode.
 ii)   Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
 outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
 iii)  I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
 to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
 me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
 missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
 during the EBCDIC conversion.

 It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.

 Parthasarathy Sundaram
 Mphasis an HP company
 Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
 Chennai-89
 Mob: 91 9176663227
 parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com




 --
 For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit
 http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
 --
 For more information on Linux on System z, visit
 http://wiki.linuxvm.org/

--
John McKown
Maranatha! 

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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread adam shea
If I remember correctly, the way I did this (when I needed to do something
like this) I transferred the files using vanilla FTP in binary mode. There
is an FTP option you must specify to the FTP server on the z/OS system
requesting the inclusion of the record descriptor word (RDW) field. The RDW,
among other things, describes the length of the record. You need to use the
RDW to insert carriage returns between the records.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:22 AM, John McKown joa...@swbell.net wrote:

 I didn't notice the dd portion of the question. The problem, to IBM at
 least on z/OS, the end-of-line character is not a LineFeed (EBCDIC 0x25)
 but a NewLine (EBCDIC 0x15). dd converts 0x0a to 0x25 and not 0x15.

 On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 10:45 +0530, Sundaram, Parthasarthy wrote:
  Hi  Team,
 
Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
  requesting you to help me on my below queries.
 
  i)In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
  mode.
  ii)   Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
  outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
  iii)  I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
  to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
  me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
  missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
  during the EBCDIC conversion.
 
  It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.
 
  Parthasarathy Sundaram
  Mphasis an HP company
  Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
  Chennai-89
  Mob: 91 9176663227
  parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
  parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com
 
 
 
 
  --
  For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
  send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
 visit
  http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
  --
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  http://wiki.linuxvm.org/

 --
 John McKown
 Maranatha! 

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--
Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work
done.
-Linus Torvalds

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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread William Carroll
The IBM OpenSSH server does not support  ascii/bin keywords,   everything
is in binary mode.
It was designed around x86 to x86 as I understand it and going binary only
you can send text or binary ok
but now that mainframe is doing this also and its not just x86 you have
issue's.

You can use Dovetail to help this or Tectia I believe

without those two  your options are

dd
tr
iconv

sftp also does not support SITE

one option you could try,  I haven't done this myself thought
create a ssh tunnel for ftp  then once the tunnel is connected use normal
ftp over ssh
your still secure but have the same old ftp client to deal with

William D Carroll
Mainframe Engineering, Build
Office:  (614) 677-3885
Cell: (614) 266-5402
Email: carrol...@nationwide.com



From:
Michael Stephens michael.steph...@esc20.net
To:
LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Date:
06/14/2011 10:08 AM
Subject:
Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion
Sent by:
Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU



Parthasarathy ,

I am inferring that you need to FTP to or from a z/OS system.  z/VM or VSE
are much the same.  My experience with FTP to and from z/OS is that EBCDIC
to ASCII is automatic.  You must set BINARY on to prevent the conversion.
That may be a local option, however.  I've not used it, but presumably
SFTP works the same.

The main issue you might have is that ordinary z/OS files have logical
record lengths, LRECL, and not line feeds as the record terminators. Linux
source records longer than the z/OS destination LRECL will be truncated.
Shorter records will be either blank or null filled.  I don't know if the
line feed character will be translated.  You could define a z/OS variable
blocked record, but make sure the Linux source records are no longer than
the block size, BLKSIZE.  Going from z/OS to Linux or Windows is generally
not such a problem.

Also, watch out for numeric field conversions.  Some of the many z/OS
numeric formats may not convert the way you wish.  It is generally better
to create the source files with numbers in display format, without commas,
and programmatically convert them.

I hope this helps,
Michael Stephens


-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
Scott Rohling
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 8:49 AM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

I'm not sure this will make a difference -- I misread the table .. and the
LF characters are the same in ebcdic or ibm..
You may need to use 'tr' or some other translate function after the dd.

Scott Rohling

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Scott Rohling
scott.rohl...@gmail.comwrote:

 Did you use 'ebcdic' or 'ibm' for conversion type on the dd command?
 Whichever you used, you might want to try and use the other and see if
 results change.

 Scott Rohling


 On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Sundaram, Parthasarthy 
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote:

 Hi  Team,

  Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
 requesting you to help me on my below queries.

 i)  In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
 mode.
 ii) Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
 outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
 iii)I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
 to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please
 let me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
 missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
 during the EBCDIC conversion.

 It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.

 Parthasarathy Sundaram
 Mphasis an HP company
 Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
 Chennai-89
 Mob: 91 9176663227
 parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
 parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com




 -
 - For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390
 or visit
 http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
 -
 - For more information on Linux on System z, visit
 http://wiki.linuxvm.org/




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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread John McKown
SFTP, in the OP, is distinctly different from FTP[S]. I assume the OP
was correct in his usage. SFTP is part of SSH.

You're probably thinking of QUOTE SITE RDW, and I totally agree with you
about that.

On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 10:29 -0400, adam shea wrote:
 If I remember correctly, the way I did this (when I needed to do something
 like this) I transferred the files using vanilla FTP in binary mode. There
 is an FTP option you must specify to the FTP server on the z/OS system
 requesting the inclusion of the record descriptor word (RDW) field. The RDW,
 among other things, describes the length of the record. You need to use the
 RDW to insert carriage returns between the records.

 On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:22 AM, John McKown joa...@swbell.net wrote:

  I didn't notice the dd portion of the question. The problem, to IBM at
  least on z/OS, the end-of-line character is not a LineFeed (EBCDIC 0x25)
  but a NewLine (EBCDIC 0x15). dd converts 0x0a to 0x25 and not 0x15.
 
  On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 10:45 +0530, Sundaram, Parthasarthy wrote:
   Hi  Team,
  
 Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
   requesting you to help me on my below queries.
  
   i)In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
   mode.
   ii)   Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
   outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
   iii)  I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
   to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
   me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
   missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
   during the EBCDIC conversion.
  
   It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.
  
   Parthasarathy Sundaram
   Mphasis an HP company
   Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
   Chennai-89
   Mob: 91 9176663227
   parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
   parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com
  
  
  
  
   --
   For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
   send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or
  visit
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  --
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  Maranatha! 
 
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 --
 Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work
 done.
 -Linus Torvalds

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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread R P Herrold

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011, Richard Troth wrote:


The FTP server on the EBCDIC system should handle translation of text
files.

Let the EBCDIC side do the translation.


heh -- easily said  ;)

I had a situation where I was receiver and sender as a
counterparty on credit card clearance data, in EBCDIC format.

The counterparty was so dysfunctional in its internal
processes, that it made sense to solve the issues of
conversion locally, rather than fight the inertia on the other
end

-- Russ herrold

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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread Richard Gasiorowski
Better check to ensure there are no packed fields.

Richard (Gaz) Gasiorowski
Solution Architect
CSC
3170 Fairview Park Dr., Falls Church, VA 22042
845-889-8533|Work|845-392-7889 Cell|rgasi...@csc.com|www.csc.com




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From:
adam shea ajsheam...@gmail.com
To:
LINUX-390@vm.marist.edu
Date:
06/14/2011 10:35 AM
Subject:
Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion



If I remember correctly, the way I did this (when I needed to do something
like this) I transferred the files using vanilla FTP in binary mode. There
is an FTP option you must specify to the FTP server on the z/OS system
requesting the inclusion of the record descriptor word (RDW) field. The
RDW,
among other things, describes the length of the record. You need to use
the
RDW to insert carriage returns between the records.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:22 AM, John McKown joa...@swbell.net wrote:

 I didn't notice the dd portion of the question. The problem, to IBM at
 least on z/OS, the end-of-line character is not a LineFeed (EBCDIC 0x25)
 but a NewLine (EBCDIC 0x15). dd converts 0x0a to 0x25 and not 0x15.

 On Tue, 2011-06-14 at 10:45 +0530, Sundaram, Parthasarthy wrote:
  Hi  Team,
 
Very good morning...Iam parthasarathy working in Mphasis.Kindly
  requesting you to help me on my below queries.
 
  i)In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
  mode.
  ii)   Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
  outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.
  iii)  I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
  to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
  me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
  missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
  during the EBCDIC conversion.
 
  It could be highly appreciated if you help me on this.
 
  Parthasarathy Sundaram
  Mphasis an HP company
  Level 4, 1-B DLF Info City, 1/124 Shivaji Garden , Manapakkam,
  Chennai-89
  Mob: 91 9176663227
  parthasarthy.sunda...@hp.com
  parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com
 
 
 
 
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 --
 John McKown
 Maranatha! 

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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread David Boyes
On 6/14/11 1:15 AM, Sundaram, Parthasarthy
parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote:

i) In SunOS how to convert the ASCII mode to EBCDIC mode in SFTP
mode.

If you are talking to Linux on Z, it's an ASCII system. No conversion
necessary. 

If you are FTPing to z/OS or other IBM system, use text mode. Conversion
will happen automatically. See the FTP client/server documentation for the
system you are connecting to for more details about specifying code pages
(if required). 

ii)Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.

See above. 

iii)   I have a file with 100 records but after converting from ASCII
to EBCDIC all the 100 records is aligned in the single line.Please let
me know how to resolve this and iam sure that carriage return is
missing. Please let me know how to apply the carriage return value
during the EBCDIC conversion.

See above. 



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Re: ASCII to EBCDIC conversion

2011-06-14 Thread Mark Post
 On 6/14/2011 at 01:15 AM, Sundaram, Parthasarthy
parthasarthy.sunda...@eds.com wrote: 
 Iam able to convert the ASCII file to EBCDIC thru DD command
 outside SFTP mode.Is this the right command.

Does SunOS have iconv?  It's what I try to use when I'm doing similar 
conversions.  It's part of glibc, but you might have it on your system.


Mark Post

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