Re: protocol converter?
On 8/15/06, Richard Hitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Dave all Hold your breath; ned will soon be reappearing on our downloads page. Richard Hitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave Jones wrote: There's no mention of NED there now.wonder whatever happened to it? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I THINK you can still get it from www.utsglobal.com. When I downloaded NED back in 2004 or 2005 all I had to do was register on the utsglobal web site. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 1:54 PM Does anybody know where UTS's NED can be found these days? Is it still free? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I can't get NED to work on 2.6. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 11:36 AM -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:19 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. Or have z/VM emulate the Integrate ASCII Console for the guest systems. I guess what is really needed is a free 3270 full screen editor (like UTS NED) that can be bundled with any Linux distribution. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 On a simpler note, how about a ctrl-c so I can break out of commands such as ping while connected via my zVM 3270 emulation connection to my Linux guest? can this be done? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
Please trim your replies. I use the IBM Pcomm TN3270 client. When I map my shift-6 key (normally a cent sign on US keyboards), to a caret ^ then just typing in ^c or ^d or ^z, etc., works as expected for me. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Yu Safin Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:32 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? -snip- On a simpler note, how about a ctrl-c so I can break out of commands such as ping while connected via my zVM 3270 emulation connection to my Linux guest? can this be done? -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
Richard Troth wrote: The key is to know ANSI X3.64 and get the applications to more fully support it. John Mckown wrote: I've read a lot here about people wanting to use vi or some other application which is full screen from the Linux console. The reply is always that the Linux console cannot be used in the manner. Now, back in the deep, dark past, I remember a product that we had on VM/370 (yes, that long ago!). This was a software protocol converter which allowed a start-stop or async terminal, such as a VT-100, to logon to a service machine (via NCP/NTO). This service machine would then use VM's LDC (?) to create a 3270 session and it would convert the 3270 control sequences to VT-100 control sequences. Troth writes: Arty Ecock wrote a TNVT100 program for CMS which lets one TELNET from z/VM to, say, Linux. I seem to remember that he said it was a difficult project and that in practice it doesn't work as well as one would hope. Still, I love this thing! It's ... er, uh ... elegant. Now ... the protocol conversion you describe above is going the other way. That's talking about plugging in a byte-at-a-time terminal into a block-mode service. That's the easy way, ala TN3270 and ye olde 7171. Going the other way is the tough trick. (And I know you know it's reverse. I'm just stating that it is harder to do.) But it can be done. In my relative youth, I wrote an application that used remote 3270s (we're talking bi-sync here), using EXCP. Part of the application (ir was really a basic TP monitor) provided the means to use enquiry programs written in COBOL, hiding all the 3270 stuff from the programs. As you might guess, I got fairly close to the protocol as it goes over the wire, along with driving your actual 3270 screens. As part of the project I got to advise the block writing the network software, we didn't have real 3270s, they were async glass teletypes. In ASCII, so I had to handle EBCDIC screens (local and remote, the ones I had to practice with) plus remote ASCII 3270s. The 3270 emulation took a while - basically it's equivalent to writing slushware for the screne itself plus for the controller, but its moderately straightforward. To support 3270 terminals in Linux, we'd need SNA (for SNA terminals) and/or bisync. I don't know how long the SNA would take (or even if its already available), but I guess the bi-sync implementation would be about what I did: not a huge task, and something I could do comfortably in Hercules _iff_ I have a (emulated) 2701 controller. I don't know that Herc does that. The problem is everone's favourite Linux applications. They all expect to see each keypress as it's made. Run lynx, type / and it immediately responds. Ditto vim, emacs, links, mutt, pine. Would you be happy using a 3270 if every second keypress is ENTER? My suggestion: If possible, use a PC running Linux. Use z3270 to talk to VM, zOS etc. Use ssh to talk to zLinux, X if you're comfortable doing that. If not that, then Windows on your peecee, a 3270 emulator and putty. If you're stuck with 3270s, talk about reequipment:-) btw rdesktop does a fine job getting a Windows desktop onto a Linux peecee. I use it regularly. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
Russ Teubner developed and marketed a product called A-Net that did something very much like this for SNA-attached 3270 terminals. It ran on MVS, VSE, and VM (including VM/370). The emergence of A-Net marked the advent of Teubner Associates, when has since merged with or been acquired by Esker. The SNA requirement on VM required VTAM, which required GCS, which is probably more than you bargained for. And, the remote connection to the ASCII application, if you will, used TCP/IP mostly, but could also connect through a 3708 protocol converter plus a few other connectivity options. So there are a few issues with that specific product or others like it that would not natively address the requirements as I understand them, meaning it would take additional development work to do it. But the nuts and bolts part of performing ASCII terminal emulation for a 3270 device was available in A-Net. Yes, it can be a pain using an application as control-character intensive as vi with ASCII terminal emulation on a 3270 device - but in a significant number of cases, even these types of applications could be made usable with A-Net in a limited environment. Commonly-used key sequences were programmed as scripts that could be invoked by PF keys. So, yes it can be donebut I suggest you consider the specific application(s) you intend to use with such a capability. If these applications are heavily dependent on use of control character sequences, and I consider vi to be in that category, then keep in mind that you have a greatly-restricted number of AID keys on a 3270 keyboard (usually about 30: PA1,2,3, PF1-24, ENTER, CLEAR, maybe ATTN if you can use that) vs. all the keys on an ASCII keyboard that you attempting to emulate. Randy Evans, Viaserv, Inc. I'm curious if something similar could be done for Linux. That is, have the Linux console be defined as CONMODE 3270 in the guest's VM directory. Now, have a device driver which could do a reverse 3270 protocol conversion. That is, make the 3270 appear as a VT-100 (or subset). The application would use VT-100 escape sequences. The device driver would convert these to 3270. I will grant that emulating the full duplex ability of the VT-100 and control keys would make this difficult. But z/OS DIDOCS emulates a full duplex capability on a 3270, so it should be possible. Well, to those who are smart enuf (I'm not!). -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee McKown, John wrote: I've read a lot here about people wanting to use vi or some other application which is full screen from the Linux console. The reply is always that the Linux console cannot be used in the manner. Now, back in the deep, dark past, I remember a product that we had on VM/370 (yes, that long ago!). This was a software protocol converter which allowed a start-stop or async terminal, such as a VT-100, to logon to a service machine (via NCP/NTO). This service machine would then use VM's LDC (?) to create a 3270 session and it would convert the 3270 control sequences to VT-100 control sequences. I'm curious if something similar could be done for Linux. That is, have the Linux console be defined as CONMODE 3270 in the guest's VM directory. Now, have a device driver which could do a reverse 3270 protocol conversion. That is, make the 3270 appear as a VT-100 (or subset). The application would use VT-100 escape sequences. The device driver would convert these to 3270. I will grant that emulating the full duplex ability of the VT-100 and control keys would make this difficult. But z/OS DIDOCS emulates a full duplex capability on a 3270, so it should be possible. Well, to those who are smart enuf (I'm not!). Just a thought. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group Phone: (303) 798-2954 Fax: (720) 228-2321 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:19 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. Or have z/VM emulate the Integrate ASCII Console for the guest systems. I guess what is really needed is a free 3270 full screen editor (like UTS NED) that can be bundled with any Linux distribution. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
I can't get NED to work on 2.6. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 11:36 AM -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:19 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. Or have z/VM emulate the Integrate ASCII Console for the guest systems. I guess what is really needed is a free 3270 full screen editor (like UTS NED) that can be bundled with any Linux distribution. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 15.08.2006 17:36:48: From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. FYI Linux support for the Integrated Ascii Console has been present for some time under the title VT220-like full-screen mode terminal. See pp. 204 of Device Drivers, Features, and Commands - SC33-8289-01: http://download.boulder.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/dw/linux390/docu/l26cdd01.pdf Regards, Peter Oberparleiter -- Peter Oberparleiter Linux on zSeries Development IBM Development Lab, Boeblingen/Germany -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
Does anybody know where UTS's NED can be found these days? Is it still free? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I can't get NED to work on 2.6. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 11:36 AM -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:19 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. Or have z/VM emulate the Integrate ASCII Console for the guest systems. I guess what is really needed is a free 3270 full screen editor (like UTS NED) that can be bundled with any Linux distribution. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
I THINK you can still get it from www.utsglobal.com. When I downloaded NED back in 2004 or 2005 all I had to do was register on the utsglobal web site. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 1:54 PM Does anybody know where UTS's NED can be found these days? Is it still free? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I can't get NED to work on 2.6. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 11:36 AM -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:19 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. Or have z/VM emulate the Integrate ASCII Console for the guest systems. I guess what is really needed is a free 3270 full screen editor (like UTS NED) that can be bundled with any Linux distribution. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
There's no mention of NED there now.wonder whatever happened to it? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I THINK you can still get it from www.utsglobal.com. When I downloaded NED back in 2004 or 2005 all I had to do was register on the utsglobal web site. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 1:54 PM Does anybody know where UTS's NED can be found these days? Is it still free? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I can't get NED to work on 2.6. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 11:36 AM -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:19 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. Or have z/VM emulate the Integrate ASCII Console for the guest systems. I guess what is really needed is a free 3270 full screen editor (like UTS NED) that can be bundled with any Linux distribution. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
I should have added... under VM... Since most of us don't run with bare LPARs... Lee Peter 1 Oberparleiter wrote: McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 15.08.2006 17:36:48: From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. FYI Linux support for the Integrated Ascii Console has been present for some time under the title VT220-like full-screen mode terminal. See pp. 204 of Device Drivers, Features, and Commands - SC33-8289-01: http://download.boulder.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/dw/linux390/docu/l26cdd01.pdf Regards, Peter Oberparleiter -- Peter Oberparleiter Linux on zSeries Development IBM Development Lab, Boeblingen/Germany -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Lee Stewart, Senior SE Sirius Enterprise Systems Group Phone: (303) 798-2954 Fax: (720) 228-2321 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.siriuscom.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
On Tuesday, 08/15/2006 at 05:48 ZE2, Peter 1 Oberparleiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FYI Linux support for the Integrated Ascii Console has been present for some time under the title VT220-like full-screen mode terminal. Which does not help a Linux guest as there is currently no way to give a Linux guest access to the integrated VT220. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
Hi, Dave all Hold your breath; ned will soon be reappearing on our downloads page. Richard Hitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave Jones wrote: There's no mention of NED there now.wonder whatever happened to it? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I THINK you can still get it from www.utsglobal.com. When I downloaded NED back in 2004 or 2005 all I had to do was register on the utsglobal web site. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 1:54 PM Does anybody know where UTS's NED can be found these days? Is it still free? DJ Richard Pinion wrote: I can't get NED to work on 2.6. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/15/2006 11:36 AM -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Stewart Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:19 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: protocol converter? Isn't the better/full answer to get IBM to support the Integrated ASCII Console on the HMC? Lee Well, that assumes you have physical access to the HMC. But, yes, I would like that. Or have z/VM emulate the Integrate ASCII Console for the guest systems. I guess what is really needed is a free 3270 full screen editor (like UTS NED) that can be bundled with any Linux distribution. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
The key is to know ANSI X3.64 and get the applications to more fully support it. John Mckown wrote: I've read a lot here about people wanting to use vi or some other application which is full screen from the Linux console. The reply is always that the Linux console cannot be used in the manner. Now, back in the deep, dark past, I remember a product that we had on VM/370 (yes, that long ago!). This was a software protocol converter which allowed a start-stop or async terminal, such as a VT-100, to logon to a service machine (via NCP/NTO). This service machine would then use VM's LDC (?) to create a 3270 session and it would convert the 3270 control sequences to VT-100 control sequences. Troth writes: Arty Ecock wrote a TNVT100 program for CMS which lets one TELNET from z/VM to, say, Linux. I seem to remember that he said it was a difficult project and that in practice it doesn't work as well as one would hope. Still, I love this thing! It's ... er, uh ... elegant. Now ... the protocol conversion you describe above is going the other way. That's talking about plugging in a byte-at-a-time terminal into a block-mode service. That's the easy way, ala TN3270 and ye olde 7171. Going the other way is the tough trick. (And I know you know it's reverse. I'm just stating that it is harder to do.) But it can be done. I'm curious if something similar could be done for Linux. That is, have the Linux console be defined as CONMODE 3270 in the guest's VM directory. Now, have a device driver which could do a reverse 3270 protocol conversion. That is, make the 3270 appear as a VT-100 (or subset). The application would use VT-100 escape sequences. The device driver would convert these to 3270. Right, so you want reverse 3270 protocol conversion. Aptly named. I'm really quite fond of the idea, delighted to hear from a kindred spirit! This can be done. Arty's tool proves that it can be done, and I suggest that apps can be re-trained to get from can do to can do well. I will grant that emulating the full duplex ability of the VT-100 and control keys would make this difficult. But z/OS DIDOCS emulates a full duplex capability on a 3270, so it should be possible. Well, to those who are smart enuf (I'm not!). Don't sell yourself short, John! You no doubt have enuf brains to get er done. Years ago I hacked some simple C code to take ANSI X3.64 escape sequences (the foundation of the VT100 you mentioned) and drew ASCII output on a physical 3270. This was with UTS, another Unix for mainframe hardware (and a slick piece of work!). The UTS guys have contributed their driver to Linux, so the same trick could be done in Linux land: reverse protocol conversion. But I only did output. The tough part is input. Arty got further (and did it with REXX) and he made it work both directions. But the remaining problem is still there, getting those byte-at-a-time applications to accept block-mode input. Hard to explain. Consider YaST: If you could sweat talk SuSE into having YaST grow an appetite for function key input in addition to its current keystroke diet, the reverse protocol conversion would boil down to the simplest of filters. Picture this: YaST uses ncurses to draw a screen full of options. Today, you hit TAB and use cursor keys to make your selections. But if YaST would also allow F-key input for its actions, and have better pull-down support for that, hey! It would do right nicely! ASCII apps don't need to know 3270 datastreams, they just need to tolerate block-mode operation as alluded to in ANSI X3.64. (Where did I put that VT220 doc? Boyes must have swiped it!) ;=) -- R, -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: protocol converter?
If you want to find out what that would be like, hunt down a copy of TNVT100, written by Arty Ecock at CUNY. It does VT100 emulation on a 3270. You won't like the results. Vi, etc are just too character-oriented to work well on a 3270, and the amount of refreshes, etc necessary to get output to the 3270 and flush input to the converter is enormously inefficient. The fundamental problem is really that curses doesn't understand block-mode terminals, and doesn't keep enough state in the terminal handler to keep track of the blocks. If it did, then this wouldn't really be an issue, and we could easily define a 3270 terminal in terminfo and it would Just Work. Even HP/UX doesn't handle this well (and AFAIK, they're the only ones who still *make* block-mode ASCII terminals), and even they recommend not running them in block mode if you can avoid it (only useful on low bandwidth, very high latency links, like direct VSAT links from the US to Australia or such). David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 12:16 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: protocol converter? I've read a lot here about people wanting to use vi or some other application which is full screen from the Linux console. The reply is always that the Linux console cannot be used in the manner. Now, back in the deep, dark past, I remember a product that we had on VM/370 (yes, that long ago!). This was a software protocol converter which allowed a start-stop or async terminal, such as a VT-100, to logon to a service machine (via NCP/NTO). This service machine would then use VM's LDC (?) to create a 3270 session and it would convert the 3270 control sequences to VT-100 control sequences. I'm curious if something similar could be done for Linux. That is, have the Linux console be defined as CONMODE 3270 in the guest's VM directory. Now, have a device driver which could do a reverse 3270 protocol conversion. That is, make the 3270 appear as a VT-100 (or subset). The application would use VT-100 escape sequences. The device driver would convert these to 3270. I will grant that emulating the full duplex ability of the VT-100 and control keys would make this difficult. But z/OS DIDOCS emulates a full duplex capability on a 3270, so it should be possible. Well, to those who are smart enuf (I'm not!). -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
