Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
On 1/22/2009 at 1:58 AM, Jack Woehr j...@well.com wrote: -snip- I've been looking at that paper Mark wrote about 500 Linux Servers and thinking of trying to factor that into SMAPI and see what it would take to implement. Just for accuracy, that was Mike MacIsaac. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Mark Post wrote: On 1/22/2009 at 1:58 AM, Jack Woehr j...@well.com wrote: -snip- I've been looking at that paper Mark wrote about 500 Linux Servers and thinking of trying to factor that into SMAPI and see what it would take to implement. Just for accuracy, that was Mike MacIsaac. Oops. Apologies. It was late ... :) -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Barton Robinson wrote: Velocity Software is announcing zPRO, a portal for z/VM systems management. Barton, from the description on the cited page, you go well beyond what SMAPI does (out of the box) ... Since it's a native app, do you use SMAPI or do your own protocol or some mixture of same? -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
We use SMAPI partially. It's too slow to be really useful. Jack Woehr wrote: Barton Robinson wrote: Velocity Software is announcing zPRO, a portal for z/VM systems management. Barton, from the description on the cited page, you go well beyond what SMAPI does (out of the box) ... Since it's a native app, do you use SMAPI or do your own protocol or some mixture of same? -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 begin:vcard fn:Barton Robinson n:Robinson;Barton adr;dom:;;PO 390640;Mountain View;CA;94039-0640 email;internet:bar...@velocitysoftware.com title:Sr. Architect tel;work:650-964-8867 note:If you can't measure it, I'm just not interested x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://velocitysoftware.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Barton Robinson wrote: We use SMAPI partially. It's too slow to be really useful. It's useful to /me/! I'm having a great deal of fun with it :) -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Gonna qualify that at all, Barton? What's too slow to be 'really' useful? SMAPI in general or certain functions? And since when did usefulness necessarily have anything to do with speed? ;-) Scott On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Barton Robinson bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com wrote: We use SMAPI partially. It's too slow to be really useful. Jack Woehr wrote: Barton Robinson wrote: Velocity Software is announcing zPRO, a portal for z/VM systems management. Barton, from the description on the cited page, you go well beyond what SMAPI does (out of the box) ... Since it's a native app, do you use SMAPI or do your own protocol or some mixture of same? -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax http://www.well.com/%7Ejax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Scott Rohling wrote: Gonna qualify that at all, Barton? What's too slow to be 'really' useful? SMAPI in general or certain functions? And since when did usefulness necessarily have anything to do with speed? And shouldn't a moderately busy SMAPI server respond a bit quicker than an relatively idle one on a busy machine due to caching of recently used calls? -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
On 1/21/2009 at 3:52 PM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com wrote: -snip- And since when did usefulness necessarily have anything to do with speed? Umm, remember The business value of sub-second response time? While revolutionary for its time, I think the idea has been pretty firmly established. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Well - I did say 'necessarily'.. sure there's a value to speed, but it doesn't 'necessarily' translate to 'usefulness'. Value comes in different forms. Would I consider, let's say - a system management tool that created a Linux server in 30 seconds to be useful -- even if another can do it in 15? Sure - maybe even more useful depending on how it was implemented. Anyway - I was mostly curious if SMAPI in general is 'too slow' or particular functions and what those things might be - and what kind of speed/response we're talking about. Just little more specification... Scott On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Mark Post mp...@novell.com wrote: On 1/21/2009 at 3:52 PM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com wrote: -snip- And since when did usefulness necessarily have anything to do with speed? Umm, remember The business value of sub-second response time? While revolutionary for its time, I think the idea has been pretty firmly established. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Scott Rohling wrote: Anyway - I was mostly curious if SMAPI in general is 'too slow' or particular functions and what those things might be - and what kind of speed/response we're talking about. Just little more specification... It's .. um ... a /little/ slow. -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Scott Rohling wrote: Anyway - I was mostly curious if SMAPI in general is 'too slow' or particular functions and what those things might be - and what kind of speed/response we're talking about. Just little more specification... All kidding aside: seconds, sometimes many, for a busy query. QueryAPIFunctionalLevel takes a couple of seconds on a round trip on a reasonably powerful box, and that's the simplest call there is. -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Scott Rohling wrote: Well - I did say 'necessarily'.. sure there's a value to speed, but it doesn't 'necessarily' translate to 'usefulness'. Value comes in different forms. Exactly. You can write an entire (somewhat slow) operations navigator in SMAPI. Which is what I'm doing. Slowly :) * PigIron the class lib took 4.5 months. * PigLet the servlet took 1.5 months. * I think PigView the navigator will take 4-6 mos. -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
on a z9 IFL, SMAPI is painfully slow from what I've seen. And this is not creating linux servers in 30 seconds - which would be disk operation, not SMAPI. Scott Rohling wrote: Well - I did say 'necessarily'.. sure there's a value to speed, but it doesn't 'necessarily' translate to 'usefulness'. Value comes in different forms. Would I consider, let's say - a system management tool that created a Linux server in 30 seconds to be useful -- even if another can do it in 15? Sure - maybe even more useful depending on how it was implemented. Anyway - I was mostly curious if SMAPI in general is 'too slow' or particular functions and what those things might be - and what kind of speed/response we're talking about. Just little more specification... Scott On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Mark Post mp...@novell.com wrote: On 1/21/2009 at 3:52 PM, Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com wrote: -snip- And since when did usefulness necessarily have anything to do with speed? Umm, remember The business value of sub-second response time? While revolutionary for its time, I think the idea has been pretty firmly established. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 begin:vcard fn:Barton Robinson n:Robinson;Barton adr;dom:;;PO 390640;Mountain View;CA;94039-0640 email;internet:bar...@velocitysoftware.com title:Sr. Architect tel;work:650-964-8867 note:If you can't measure it, I'm just not interested x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://velocitysoftware.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Barton Robinson wrote: on a z9 IFL, SMAPI is painfully slow from what I've seen. And this is not creating linux servers in 30 seconds - which would be disk operation, not SMAPI. Scott Rohling wrote: Well - I did say 'necessarily'.. sure there's a value to speed, but it doesn't 'necessarily' translate to 'usefulness'. Value comes in different forms. Here's the Nice Stuff about SMAPI : * It's good code from an accuracy point of view. * The architecture is well factored. * It's easy to extend. * It's officially supported and really supported because IBM uses it themselves. SMAPI with custom extension can be the backend of a complete remote system management solution. Maybe it's too slow to be practical for certain kinds of things. I don't think that's the case but my definition of too slow is would cause a browser accessing the PigLet servlet to time out waiting for the return document and that's NOT what's happening for me. Everything is dandy. SMAPI is very nice, it's straightforward, and since I didn't know better, I've already written a complete open source client for it. So I intend to continue down that path towards a PigView Web 2.0-style operations navigator. -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zPRO (tm) Product Announcement
Barton Robinson wrote: on a z9 IFL, SMAPI is painfully slow from what I've seen. And this is not creating linux servers in 30 seconds - which would be disk operation, not SMAPI. I've been looking at that paper Mark wrote about 500 Linux Servers and thinking of trying to factor that into SMAPI and see what it would take to implement. -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
