Linux-Advocacy Digest #435
Linux-Advocacy Digest #435, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 02:13:06 EDT Contents: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Aaron Kulkis) Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. Numbers for users,hackers? (Oliver Baker) Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Linux, easy to use? (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. (Aaron Kulkis) Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Aaron Kulkis) Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Aaron Kulkis) Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Aaron Kulkis) Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Aaron Kulkis) From: Aaron Kulkis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 01:19:46 -0400 Cihl wrote: Gonzo wrote: Cihl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... AMD is ok. Watch out for the K6-3D, though. Some stores have taken it out, because it would consistently slow down after about half an hour. Huh? Where did you get that? I don't remember exactly where i read that. It was in some computer magazine several months ago. The problem mentioned something about temperature in insufficiently cooled rooms. It seems like normal room temperature was already too hot for the K6-3D. Maybe the test equipment didn't have sufficient airflow THROUGH the case, and/or around the CPU (ribbon cables dangling right around the CPU can cause overheating problems). Since they're only a couple dollars each, I put a fan everywhere one can go. My current cases have mount points for two fans on top (exhaust) and one on the bottom (good for blowing air RIGHT AT the CPU and creating large amounts of air turbulence around the video card. It's even possible that the CPU fan was bad -- you don't know unless the authors specifically mention that they looked at that as being a possible problem. Current DFI boards all have on-board temperature sensors. I hope these become industry standard! -- Aaron R. Kulkis Unix Systems Engineer ICQ # 3056642 H: Knackos...you're a retard. A: The wise man is mocked by fools. B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort. C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction that she doesn't like. D: Jet claims to have killfiled me. E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup ...despite (D) above. F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a response until their behavior improves. G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn. -- From: Aaron Kulkis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 01:21:12 -0400 Pete Goodwin wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Kulkis) wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've never seen ANY form of Unix destroy data. I have. Pull the plug on one and see what happens. At best, nothing, at worst, you've lost a whole load of stuff you've just painstakingly entered. The only system I know of that could reasonably copy with this was OpenVMS. Happens on my "LOSE98" machines on a regular basis, however. What's LOSE98? Is this the same as Lie-nux? LOSE98 is a crappy GUI built on top of a buggy CP/M clone. Linux is a competantly built multi-user, multi-tasking OS. Pete -- Aaron R. Kulkis Unix Systems Engineer ICQ # 3056642 H: Knackos...you're a retard. A: The wise man is mocked by fools. B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort. C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction that she doesn't like. D: Jet claims to have killfiled me. E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup ...despite (D) above. F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a response until their behavior improves. G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn. -- From: Aaron Kulkis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 01:22:50 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron Kulkis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Aaron R. Kulkis Unix Systems Engineer ICQ # 3056642 H: Knackos...you're a retard. A: The wise man is mocked by fools. B: "Jeem" Dutton
Linux-Advocacy Digest #437
Linux-Advocacy Digest #437, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 06:13:04 EDT Contents: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Laura Goodwin) A hot one (Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box?) (Laura Goodwin) Re: My Linux Adventure (Re: I'm Ready!) (Laura Goodwin) Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin) Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin) Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Truckasaurus) Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Thorne digest, volume 2451729 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451729 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451729 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: Linux code going down hill (Matthias Warkus) Re: Linux, easy to use? (Matthias Warkus) Re: You Should Not Treat Linux Like M$ Windows (Matthias Warkus) 11 Linux features I care about (was: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about.) (Truckasaurus) From: Laura Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 02:53:09 -0400 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Sokos Family wrote: Linux can be free, but only if you really know what you are doing and have access to a reasonably fast network connection. Just cos I do it myself doesn't make it free. Paying for the CD is cheaper than DLing it myself, if you count the value of my time. Plus I can use that CD to save other people time and trouble too, so it's worth a lot for the convenience. Make sure you use a monitor that can do at least 1024x768. Linux is worse than windows in lower screen resolutions (IMHO). I have a monitor and vid that can do anything, but when I tried to tell setup that during install it wouldn't let me specify the monitor's parameters, I had to choose from a short list of standard settings, none of which was correct. I have no idea how to set non-standard settings. I don't think linux is ready to dethrone windows as the primary operating system for the PC. Operating systems don't kill - people do. Lots of people dumping Windows for Linux is the only thing that will work, and the only thing that will make that happen is people making it more user-friendly, and foisting it on the public with fanatical vigor. My documentation for VMS (which is roughly equivalent to unix in terms of complexity) fills an entire bookshelf. How's that for intimidating? :-) Sounds like you are ready next time you have a bunch of little kids that need booster seats to reach the birthday cake. :) -- "Sureshot" Laura http://pcwranglers.com/ -- From: Laura Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Subject: A hot one (Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box?) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 03:03:14 -0400 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gonzo wrote: Laura Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... I believe that was a problem with some earlier versions only. Right Laura. It was the K6 233MHz that ran a little hot Man, you ain't whistling Dixie. My daughter's 'puter is a Compaq 4550 with an AMD 233 and that little machine is a cooker. It is hot as hell, and the fact that it's a smaller than usual case only aggravates matters. Ventilation is totally inadequate in that model, and CDs come out of the CD-ROM tray literally hot to the touch. Amazingly, the thing is stable and has been running for hours daily for over two years without a problem. I never have tried anything but Win95 on it, and don't plan to. -- "Sureshot" Laura http://pcwranglers.com/ -- From: Laura Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My Linux Adventure (Re: I'm Ready!) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 03:06:17 -0400 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aaron Kulkis wrote: Your drivers were already loaded.a LONG, LONG, time ago... ...in a WINDOWS galaxy far, far away. :) -- "Sureshot" Laura http://pcwranglers.com/ -- From: Pete Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:45:40 GMT In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your weenus comments exceeded 80 columns so I corrected them for you so that others could read them. BTW, why didn't IE correct your ability to type past 80 anyway? I've never known IE to be a Newsreader. Blimey, accrediting it with things it doesn't do, wow, do you know Windows or what! -- --- Pete Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. -- From: Pete Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:51:52 GMT In
Linux-Advocacy Digest #438
Linux-Advocacy Digest #438, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 08:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
s.n.a.f.u. 1b-i (Uncle)
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.)
(Jim Cameron)
Re: Linux code going down hill (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Numbers for users,hackers? ("1$worth")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: s.n.a.f.u. 1b-i (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: 11 Linux features I care about (was: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about.)
(Ben Walker)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Phillip Lord)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Phillip Lord)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Phillip Lord)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Phillip Lord)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 09:59:32 GMT
In article 8jpern$12d$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Pete Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In article 8jooej$ilu$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Very productive attitude! you asked and I replied. You have been
MISUSING THE TERM LINUX! I have ben trying to Educate your to the
difference but you continue to missuse the term linux to continue
your
trolling ways. As I said earlier, if you know the difference between
KDE
and Linux continue to bash linux for a KDE problem then you are a
troll.
thus, you are a troll plain and symple!
OK, let's take a look at this from another angle shall we.
When you say Windows, do you mean Windows 98 SE or Windows 2000? If
you
don't specify, how do I know what you're talking about? The two
systems
are different. What causes a crash on one system hardly causes a
problem
on the other. Therefore I feel perfectly justified to use Linux where
maybe Linux desktop (KDE) might be better.
Sorry, Troll, but if I say windows, I mean all of the Windows family. I
could safely say "without buying additional software, Windows will not
run Linux applications". If I spacific issues with a spacific versions
of windows, I state the version, i.e. "W2K's active directory can be
more trouble than it is worth" If I said "Windows active directrory..."
I would EXPECT to be called on the error. I DO SPECIFY the difference.
The truly pathetic thing is that you whine when people call you
stupid
because you can not learn to communicate properly! Despite people
trying
to correct your use of misuse of the term Linux, you continue to
misuse
it. Probably because you know it is inflamitory. And *YOU* want to
treat
me like a child Grow UP!
Fine. When I see Windows being correctly specified, I'll accord you
guys
the same courtesy. So long as I see Windows being called WinSucks or
WinLose, and not Windows 98 SE or Windows 2000, I'll carry on using
Linux.
C'ya Little boy!
Bye bye, let me know when you get out of Kindergarden!
Sorry, you flunked kindergarden!
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
--
From: Uncle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: s.n.a.f.u. 1b-i
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:12:39 GMT
Hi everyone.
I'm working on a sysadmin utility
called s.n.a.f.u. (stands for Slippy
Network Admins ofFsck Util) and its
aimed at making the monitoring of logs,
activity, hardware activity, and system
status a little easier for folks doing
a lot of their admining on the cmdline,
not in X.
It also provides quick(er) access
to system confs for editing and system
logs for viewing. And there are few
extra misc scripts in there as well.
I'm a looking for folks to giveit a
try and maybe some feed back as well.
Anyone interested in it can swing by:
http://www.geekcave.net
s.n.a.f.u. is an open source project
and developer input is welcomed
thankfully. Comments, suggestion,
code, flames, etc. can be emailed to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
Uncle
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.geekcave.net
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Cameron)
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not
ready.)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:17:29 GMT
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Darren Winsper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:50:10 GMT, Cihl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Cihl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
AMD is ok. Watch out for the K6-3D, though. Some stores have taken it
out, because it would consistently slow down after about half an hour.
Huh? Where did you get that?
I don't remember exactly where i read that. It was in some computer
magazine several months ago. The problem mentioned something about
temperature in insufficiently cooled
Linux-Advocacy Digest #439
Linux-Advocacy Digest #439, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 11:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Jim Cameron)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Karri Kalpio)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Matthias Warkus)
Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about. (Matthias Warkus)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Rick)
Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (sandrews)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Cameron)
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:56:45 GMT
The subject of this thread always makes me think of the two-headed ogres
in Warcraft II ("We're ready Master!" "I'm not ready!") 8-)
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cihl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Laura Goodwin wrote:
[snipped loads of stuff about ideal cheap Linux box]
Lemme take a crack at this one.
Motherboard:
Anything with an Intel-chipset is perfect. Others work well, too, but
i'd test it first, like VIA-chipsets for example.
I have an Aladdin AGPset with which Linux gave me absolutely no trouble
at all (2.2.13, ASUS P5A-B). Windows95, on the other hand, gave me
immense difficulty.
Video:
There are many, many card that work well in Linux. Some brands support
Linux better than others. Seek these out, like ATI/3DFX/nVidia and
such.
3Dfx Linux info ought to be at linux.3dfx.com but it seems to be down
at the moment. I certainly had no problems with my Voodoo3.
Network?
Cheapest NE-2000 compatible card is good enough. PCI preferably,
IsaPnP sucks, IMHO.
ISAPnP sucks in general, but massively for network cards ... we have a
lab full of Win95/98 machines with elcheapo PnP cards, and I had no
end of trouble setting them up. In the end I gave up, used the DOS
diagnostic / config programs to set them all to jumperless mode and
used them as ordinary non-PnP cards. It could well be worth doing the
same for Linux if you have a DOS bootdisc lying around.
Modem?
Watch out for this one, unless you get them an external one. Many
internal PCI-modems are brainless ones. (Windows only, Resource hog,
avoid!)
A housemate of mine a while ago was having trouble getting a Winmodem
to work on his (Win98) laptop. He asked me for advice. I said "that
alleged modem is a piece of shit, get a real one". He followed my
advice and was very happy with the result. External modems are good
because you can watch the blinkenlights.
Mouse:
Cheapest you can find. It's gotta be a cheap computer, no need to lift
the price over a mouse. :-) PS/2, USB, doesn't matter, it all works.
As everybody else has said, get 3 buttons! Emulating it with both at
once is a true pain.
The general rule of hardware applies here: get the best you can afford.
Good Linux hardware is good Windows hardware, and usually the converse
applies. Linux is behind Windows on driver support, largely because
Windows gets its drivers written for it by the manufacturers while the
Linux guys often have to reverse-engineer the specs themselves. It's
getting better though. Hardware that only works under Windows is often
hardware that you wouldn't want in the first place: Winmodems,
WinPrinters etc. and cheap dodgy clones by fly-by-night companies.
It must be admitted that it is more expensive to get something that
sort-of-works under Linux than it is under Windows, but the cheapest
stuff is liable to be crap anyway. Get hardware that works with Linux
and your Windows experience is likely to be enhanced also.
jim
--
http://madeira.physiol.ucl.ac.uk/people/jim/
"Revenge is an integral part of forgiving and forgetting" -The BOFH
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 12:58:56 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin) writes:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Shepherd) wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Have you ever backed ANYTHING up in your life?
Of course, with older systems like UNIX, I did a lot of backups. With
Windows I rarely do backups, as I rarely lose anything. I do keep backups
on CD's so I can recover.
You *do* know that Windows also caches writes, don't you? And "Windows",
in general (i.e. including non-NT variants) uses filesystems that are
rather more fragile than even the Minix FS.
However, I think the scariest part comes up
Linux-Advocacy Digest #440
Linux-Advocacy Digest #440, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 11:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Leslie
Mikesell)
Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
From: "Daniel Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:30:00 GMT
"Leslie Mikesell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:8jorhl$2hjc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
In article eiI75.2915$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Daniel Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, if you are going to rely on the internal inplementation
details of NT, you can't be too shocked when this happens.
Yes, this is precisely why wire protocols are the correct
level of interoperability.
I'm leaving this statement in because I don't understand
it; clearly my interpretation is nonsense, but what
interpretation would make sense for this?
Start with the observation that there are many CPU types
that have different bit/byte ordering.
I do observe that. What of it?
Start with the
concept that having to be backwards compatible to any
single CPU type or any single vendor's OS is going to
turn out badly sooner or later.
I don't see why. But even if true, we don't really have
a real option. It's not like being backward's compatible
to Unix is an improvement, after all.
If you want to use
a mix of products or just don't want to be locked into
anything, your machines must interoperate at the network
level.
This ain't so. If you do it that way, you are locked into
*protocols*. Why would you want to be locked into
them *too*?
And you know my objection to it: Interoperability
by standardizing on Unix and Unix clones isn't
really interoperability. You have to be able
to work with *different* products, rather than
insisting that everything be made the same.
I know you keep saying that.
Yes, I do, don't I?
But it has never
made any sense, given that there are dozens
of vendors who use standard protocols
Vendors *of Unix*; this is fine if what you want
is Unix, but you are still locked in.
"Any color you want as long as it's black" isn't really
much of a choice, in my view.
and MS is the one who will only work with itself.
MS is not the only company out there with its
own protocols; but MS *will* work with others.
[snip]
What they changed (when sued) was the default
setting of a checkbox so the extensions were turned
off by default.
Then they still continue to produce something that isn't
java? I'm amazed that this is allowed to continue.
Sure. They produce huge numbers of things that aren't
Java.
Is this a problem somehow?
[snip]
I don't know. That's possible; If J++ works like Visual C++,
you'd have to use MS's class library to use the visual
development tool, and this library may well use
MS's extensions.
Surprise, surprise...
No surprise. This is, again, standard practice. If you use
Borland's visual app builder thingy, you get to use Delphi,
and Delphi depends on language extensions to C++.
[snip]
You're scaring me. You found many others who also couldn't
handle unchecking a checkbox, and who didn't think they needed
to know anything about Netscape to make an applet portable
to it?
We're doomed.
Yes, MS succeeded in breaking any hope of using their tools
to do something useful.
Well, not everything useful is portable. But I was more concerned
that there are "many" programemrs so incompetant that
this would be a problem for them.
Don't ever let them near C++, okay? :D
[snip]
You got lucky, I think. The JVMs out there are not
interchangable.
No, they just did not generate intentionally broken
byte code.
I'm sure they didn't- but you can't rely completely on
Sun's docs to tell you how JVMs will behave; that ignores
the defects in the JVMs- and not just Microsoft's either.
Not to mention different versions of Java, of course.
--
From: "Daniel Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:30:01 GMT
"Leslie Mikesell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:8jot3s$2jr1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
In article giI75.2917$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Daniel Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
I'm not sure I can prove that. But I think that if you wish to claim
that NT's design is causing these security problems by virtue
of combining things that shouldn't be combined, then I think
it is up to *you* to prove
Linux-Advocacy Digest #441
Linux-Advocacy Digest #441, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 11:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.)
(Neil Cerutti)
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.)
(Neil Cerutti)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linux code going down hill (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
From: "Daniel Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:30:19 GMT
"Leslie Mikesell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:8jp74s$t2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
In article 7iI75.2910$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Daniel Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
Not at all, there are way to cope with multiple protocols; using
them gives you flexibility.
Exactly - and none of them should involve having to make
changes on the other end of the wire.
Why not?
Because doing so takes away your choice of ever using anything
(a) not under your control or
What does this mean?
(b) not from a vendor that happens to match.
No, this is backwards. If you are allowed to make
changes at the other end of the write, you can support
products that support *none* of your current protocols;
you just add one their do support.
Inconvinient, yes, but better than simply being unable
to communicate at all.
[snip]
I don't think I am; I think that it's *Unix* protocols you favor,
regardless of 'standardization'; there is as I've mentioned
a standards body for COM, but I don't see you complaining
about Unix's vendors failure to support it.
DCOM might make sense as a standard, but it has to compete
head to head with pre-existing ones like CORBA and I
don't see it winning. If there were a free reference
library it might have a chance.
Hmmm.. I sense a bit of waffling here. Will you admit that
COM is a standard?
Not "might make sense as a standard". Is it one?
I'll admit that CORBA is, if it helps.
[snip]
You haven't given a reason to want to halt progress; you've
just asserted that its like telephones somehow.
It is like telephones in that much of the value of my instance
comes from it's ability to interoperate with any other, regardless
of the vendor. And it doesn't halt progress, it allows it.
This isn't true of computers. Most of their value is
rather more self contained. Don't get fixated on the
Web.
Further, you have to show that its ability to interoperate
depends on standardisation, as you know I said
that it doesn't. If I'm right, halting progress (in this area)
isn't justifiable.
[snip]
My real complaint about IE is that it puts non-standard HTML
extensions on a majority of desktops, encouraging designers
to use them in ways that break standards-conforming software.
Sort of like Netscape, then?
No, Netscape didn't claim to be inseperable from the OS,
That has nothing to do with it.
but
your point is correct. Without competition, Netscape would
have been a problem. Without competition, IE *is* a problem.
I think you meant to say "Without competition, Netscape
was a problem". Right?
[snip]
I don't think they do cause trouble for users of competing
products; so far I haven't seen an example of this given.
Just incredible... I've posted many, they are in the courts
over others and you "haven't seen an example".
I have seen things presented *as* example of this, but
there were not actual examples.
There are lots of examples of MS providing some service
for its users that its competitors did not have; I've seen examples
of MS's failing to integrate support the product that its competitors
did have.
But I draw a distinction between "failing to solve a problem" and
"creating a problem".
[snip]
You don't. You've no right to take IE away from the rest
of us, just because you don't like it.
Who said anything about taking IE away. I want to take
away the non-HTML that people accidentally produce using
MS tools.
You want to keep people from *using* IE's addition features.
You've no right to do that.
I have put a great deal of effort to keep them
off the web servers I manage and understand how difficult
it is if you use any of Microsoft's tools.
Why should you do this?
People should be able to view web pages with the browser of
their choice even if someone innocently used an MS product
to produce it.
Why? Why do you get to dictate to web-page authors what
features they may use?
[snip]
Not so. Just spewing an X protocol stream into an
arbitrary socket is useless;
Linux-Advocacy Digest #442
Linux-Advocacy Digest #442, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 13:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? (The Ghost In The
Machine)
Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? (The Ghost In The
Machine)
Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Numbers for users,hackers? ("Davorin Mestric")
Re: Petition for Microsoft (Charlie Root)
Re: Numbers for users,hackers? (Charlie Root)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (phil hunt)
Re: Ready for Linux ? The "Furniture Scale" ("bmeson")
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Hyman Rosen)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Hyman Rosen)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:53:32 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Pete Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote on Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:45:40 GMT 8jpgb1$34p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Your weenus comments exceeded 80 columns so I corrected them for you
so that others could
read them.
BTW, why didn't IE correct your ability to type past 80 anyway?
I've never known IE to be a Newsreader. Blimey, accrediting it with
things it doesn't do, wow, do you know Windows or what!
Indeed; the headers of this post show you're using Netscape,
which is about as bad when it comes to typing past 80.
However, one can attempt to fix that with judicious fiddling with
the settings, resulting in a monospaced font; one can then
resize one's window to fit 80 characters.
Whether all of this is worthwhile or not...I can't say. (Outlook
Express doesn't do it well either; of course, Outlook Express is
very peculiar when it comes to its support of several versions
of followup formatting!)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLRN. Simple, Likable, Reliable Newsreader. :-)
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:55:43 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron Kulkis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote on Mon, 03 Jul 2000 02:17:25 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
[snip]
Actually, you can write a program that slowly varies the delay
between back-and-forth head seeks, and eventually, you will hit
the harmonic frequency of the drive chassis, and the whole thing
will shake itself to death (kind of like the Verazanno Narrows
bridge in Tacoma, Washington that lasted for all of three months...
it's the weirdest thing, watching movies of solid concrete flexing
like a long piece of white engineer's eraser (you know, the kind
in a long clicker, like Pentel and other make..)
Heh...shoulda thought of that. Nasty!
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- but I prefer my drives working :-)
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 15:00:56 GMT
In article 8jpejn$us$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Pete Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In article 8jmhkn$4va$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If it was W@K you would have had to reboot!
What is W@K?
If you mean Windows 98 SE, yes I agree.
If you mean Windows 2000, it would have told me what just died (which
Linux did not) and would have carried on as if nothing had happened.
This is one area Windows 2000 scores over Linux.
That's a totall crock of bullshit.
First of all, If a process in W2K eats up to many resources it will hang
or slow you system down to a total crawl. It does not pop up a message
telling you how kill the process. You have to know in advance to type
ctrl-alt-del to kill the process.
Secondly, all of the following W2K BSOD's give you no warning
whatsoever:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q245/1/12.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q260/9/56.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q232/9/48.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q254/6/11.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q257/8/13.asp
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q195/8/57.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q259/1/44.ASP
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q128/6/30.asp
And thirdly, it's strictly KDE, not Linux, that has this bug. Linux does
Linux-Advocacy Digest #443
Linux-Advocacy Digest #443, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 17:13:05 EDT Contents: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell) Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Phillip Lord) Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451729 (tinman) Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (mike) Re: Mandrake - DUN ? (codifex) Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? (Jerry Peters) Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Hyman Rosen) Re: Numbers for users,hackers? (Mig Mig) Re: Numbers for users,hackers? (Mig Mig) Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not resond (was Re: Linux is junk)) (Mig Mig) Re: Linux code going down hill (Write tome) Re: Where did all my windows go? (abraxas) Re: Where did all my windows go? (Mig Mig) Re: Where did all my windows go? (Mig Mig) Re: Linux, easy to use? (Roberto Alsina) Hello (Send Memail) Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? (Jan Knutar) Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: Claims of Windows supporting old applications are reflecting reality or fantasy? (Mathias Grimmberger) Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Bob Hauck) Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729 (Cihl) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? Date: 3 Jul 2000 12:23:32 -0500 In article Yr185.4272$[EMAIL PROTECTED], Daniel Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MSCHAP broke every existing dialup service, No, it didn't. Not adhering to the protocols you would have them adhere to is not the same thing as "breaking" anything. Please name one vendor of dial-up terminal servers that was not forced to re-write their firmware or go out of business. If you want to say that the vendors of dial-up terminal servers were 'forced' to re-write their firmware or go out of business, you should provide some evidence for it. If you want to claim that dropping an incompatible dialer on every desktop didn't break the standards-conforming existing hardware, you should provide the evidence, except there obviously isn't any. I was using a Gandalf at the time, but it affected everyone else the same way. They all had to roll out new firmware. They were, after all, somehow able to get by before MSCHAP got along. They had to have *some* way to distribute their dialers. No, they just worked with standard PPP dialers before. No need to distribute anything proprietary. [snip] Are you saying you judge MS by a different standard than others, then? Yes, because of their sheer size. If anyone other than MS had delivered a client with MSCHAP, it could have been universally ignored. Well, at least you admit to your double standard there. But I had thought better of you. Oh well. Better? I have a keen sense of the obvious. Competition takes care of such problems. MS doesn't have any compitition. [snip] That is fine if you have several vendors competing on an equal footing. We don't and you know it. Indeed; we don't, we never did, and we never will. We don't need it. You speak only for yourself here. What difficulties? They've been sending email world wide long before MS even thought about their silly product that was based on file sharing. Shrug; Unix's problems are sufficiently obvious, and sufficiently oft commented upon, that if you don't know about them, it's because you don't want to. In other words you can't think of any... [snip] ...monopolies.. I guess so. I meant that the meaning of the term has changed so that it no longer resembles what it once did, and in particular no longer implies a lack of competition, or control of a market. In regard to what company? Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 19:18:22 +0200 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron Kulkis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Written back in the days of 300 bit/second modems Forgive me for noticing that ... technology has advanced in the last 25 years. snip Glad to see you've grown up (at least regarding your signature). :-) -- From: Phillip Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED] Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! Date: 03 Jul 2000 18:31:52 +0100 "Hyman" == Hyman Rosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hyman Phillip Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You miss my point badly I am afraid. Hyman I don't think so. You likened discussing the future of the Royal family to
Linux-Advocacy Digest #444
Linux-Advocacy Digest #444, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 18:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: I thought only Windows 98 SE did this! (Michael Marion)
Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. ("Rich C")
Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. ("Rich C")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Chad Irby)
Re: I thought only Windows 98 SE did this! (Cihl)
Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not resond
(was Re: Linux is junk)) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Gary Hallock)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (phil hunt)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (phil hunt)
Re: I thought only Windows 98 SE did this! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
From: Michael Marion [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I thought only Windows 98 SE did this!
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 21:13:59 GMT
Pete Goodwin wrote:
I shut down my Linux workstation and it hung in Postfix... I tried logging
in as root, but all the virtual terminals wouldn't let me even type 'root'.
A couple of questions:
1. Is your box known by a FQDN?
2. How long did you wait before rebooting?
Mail programs tend to take a long time to timeout if they're trying to
verify name/IP. I've seen them hang on boot and shutdown for up to five
minutes. Of course, if you configure them properly, this doesn't
happen.
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc.
"Linux and other OSS advocates are making a progressively more credible
argument that OSS software is at least as robust -- if not more -- than
commercial alternatives." - Microsoft lamenting Open Source Software in
the
"Halloween Document"
--
From: "Rich C" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Uptime 6 months and counting.
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 17:23:16 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:8jphr2$du3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
"Rich C" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
Uhm, capacity isn't a problem --- most power outages are 1 to 2
seconds. But total power output is, and I would be very reluctant
to attach 1kW worth of computers to a 300W UPS When those
thyristors blow, bad things can happen ;-)
Is the 1KW _all_ the equipment or just the system units? You could keep
the
monitors and printers on regular power.
I have around 10 machines going all the time, and most have 300W power
supplies. Quite a few of them are quite loaded up with disks and cards
The 1kW is just an estimate, of course, but it should be pretty close.
Bernie
Well, then the only other thing I can think of short of getting a bigger UPS
is consolidating all the read/write drives on a few fast machines, UPS-ing
those, and making all the others mount read-only. Then when power goes out,
all your read/write drives would be backed up, and the others shouldn't
matter.
--
Rich C.
"Because light travels faster than sound, many people appear to be
intelligent, until you hear them speak."
--
From: "Rich C" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Uptime 6 months and counting.
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 17:24:48 -0400
"Aaron Kulkis" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Aaron Kulkis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unfortunately, they [UPSs] are rather pricy friends when you are
dealing with 10 or so machines
Here's what you do.
Open it up...you will find a 12.7V lead-acid batter inside (probably
a "motorcycle" battery.
Nowbuy a couple of car batteries...and put them in parallel with
the motorcycle battery.
Uhm, capacity isn't a problem --- most power outages are 1 to 2 seconds.
But total power output is, and I would be very reluctant to attach 1kW
worth
of computers to a 300W UPS When those thyristors blow, bad things
can happen ;-)
OK, Plug a 1500 W hairdryer into it, and see what happens.
You said you did destructive stress testing for _what_ company? :o)
--
Rich C.
"Because light travels faster than sound, many people appear to be
intelligent, until you hear them speak."
--
From: Chad Irby [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$
Linux-Advocacy Digest #445
Linux-Advocacy Digest #445, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 20:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Paul E. Larson)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Gary Hallock)
Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451729 (Pascal Haakmat)
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Hyman Rosen)
Re: Trying Linux yet again (Jeff Szarka)
Re: So where ARE all of these supposed Linux users? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
WINDOWS! (CyberSurfer)
Re: OS's ... (Daniel Tryba)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("Shock Boy")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("Shock Boy")
Another CommyLie-nux Commy expoased! (was: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was:
Linux is awesome!) (Tim Palmer)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Tim Palmer)
Re: OS's ... (Tim Palmer)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Tim Palmer)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Tim Palmer)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: So where ARE all of these supposed Linux users? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 22:15:16 GMT
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 03 Jul 2000 13:01:08 -0400, Hyman Rosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Phillip Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes. Even ideas that quite a lot of the population see as
reasonable are included in the ideas which will get ignored
though. And the "people" who are doing the ignoring are not the
population as a whole, but rather the few who control the media and
political system.
I assume that in the UK, like in the US, essentially anyone may start
a newspaper or a magazine, or write a book, or run for office.
This is not true in either country. In the USA, someone must be over
35 to stand for president. In the UK, one must be over 21 to become
an MP. So both these countries ban millions of their citizens from
elected offices.
Better corillary is the age minimum of 25 years for the House of
Representatives.
Paul
--
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=67063a=635208 - 1999 Hancock Airshow
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=67063a=2618171 - National Warplane Museum
--
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 18:27:44 -0400
From: Gary Hallock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Pete Goodwin wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Hallock) wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Of course you are ignoring why I responded to your post in the first
place. You claimed UNIX did not handle power outages well, not Linux.
And that is plain and simply a lie.
Oh it's a lie that UNIX doesn't handle power outages very well. That's news
to me. When did that change?
Pete
I already told you. Can't you read?
Gary
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pascal Haakmat)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,nl.scouting
Subject: Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451729
Date: 3 Jul 2000 22:32:03 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you still think that?
It was a question, Pascal.
Why not an answer, Dave?
--
Rate your CSMA savvy by identifying the writing styles of
ancient and recent, transient and perdurable CSMA inhabitants:
(35 posters, 259 quotes)
http://awacs.dhs.org/csmatest
--
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451729
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 22:34:23 GMT
Cihl writes:
Could somebody PLEASE tell what the hell this is?
It's a digest of the articles posted by Joe Malloy, who claims to post
them for entertainment purposes. Better to have just one response than
several.
--
From: Hyman Rosen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 03 Jul 2000 18:38:10 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes:
This is not true in either country. In the USA, someone must be over
35 to stand for president. In the UK, one must be over 21 to become
an MP. So both these countries ban millions of their citizens from
elected offices.
I said "essentially" anyone. Interested younger people can use
the time to good effect by getting all the pieces in place so
that they will be ready to run once they are of age.
To start a (physical) newspaper or magazine probably costs more
money than most people have, assuming high-quality production
values.
Then they can start one with low production values. If they attract
enough interest,
Linux-Advocacy Digest #446
Linux-Advocacy Digest #446, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 22:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use? (Darren Winsper)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Gary Hallock)
Re: So where ARE all of these supposed Linux users? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Linux code going down hill ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux code going down hill ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451730 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451730 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Peter Ammon)
Re: 10 Linux "features" nobody cares about. ("Colin R. Day")
Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451730 (tinman)
Re: OS's ... ("Colin R. Day")
Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not resond
(was Re: Linux is junk)) (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... ("Colin R. Day")
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (mlw)
Re: Linux code going down hill (abraxas)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Perry Pip)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Perry Pip)
Re: WINDOWS! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Perry Pip)
Re: I thought only Windows 98 SE did this! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Perry Pip)
Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not resond
(was Re: Linux is junk)) (Perry Pip)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Subject: Re: We WANT different enviroments (Was: Linux, easy to use?
Date: 3 Jul 2000 15:00:40 GMT
On Mon, 03 Jul 2000 07:51:52 GMT, Pete Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you say Windows, which one do you mean? Windows 98 SE is not the same
as Windows 2000.Yet everyone here simply uses the term "Windows",
There are aspects of Win98SE and W2K that are common to both platforms.
For example, when I complain about Windows, more often than not I'm
refering to the GUI, which is more or less the same on both platforms.
Other times I make it clear what I'm talking about (Usually Win98,
because that's the other OS on this machine).
or
more crudely, WinLose or WinDoze or whatever derogatory term you can
think of.
The Windows camp is just as guilty of doing that wrt Linux.
Then why don't you take some time an try to understand the context in
which others are using computers. At work I recently installed some
Gnome components on a SGI/IRIX machine becuase we needed to quickly
develop some UI's to a custom application and wanted to use glade. Now
if I run into some Gnome bugs should I claim they are IRIX bugs?? That
would be stupid. Similary, I think it is just as stupid to blame Linux
for KDE bugs.
But bugs in Windows 98 are being attributed to Windows 2000! People
don't say "Windows 98" they say Windows. So I feel perfectly justified
in using the term "Linux."
Ah yes, the age old "everyone does it so it must be OK" argument. I
guess I can use that argument for, say, nabbing MP3s off Napster, or
grabbing a copy of WinME of a Warez site.
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://stellarlegacy.sourceforge.net
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Date: 3 Jul 2000 18:50:15 -0500
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Pete Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have you ever loaded a driver on LoseDos?
I write Windows device drivers for a living. You know, with all the crashes
and stuff (my own fault of course), not _once_ did Windows trash the disk.
I have an NTFS partition that was corrupted when my CPU fan quit
working and the machine crashed a few times before I found
out what was wrong. Scandisk went through the motions of fixing
it and the files mostly seem ok, but now I have trouble getting
setup to unpack the files in self-installing exe files. They
keep telling me that I don't have disk space for the temp files
even though I do. I managed to install service pack 6a by putting
it and the temp directory on a network drive, but I still can't
get a Netscape update to install.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:59:37 -0400
From: Gary Hallock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Leslie Mikesell wrote:
It depends on the machine's use. If it isn't busily writing files
at the time you lose power or a few seconds before you won't see
any problems. That's probably the case for most home users. A
busy file server is likely to have e2fsck move some incomplete
pieces to lost_found on the way back up.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You've fallen for Pete's trickery. He didn't say
Linux-Advocacy Digest #447
Linux-Advocacy Digest #447, Volume #27Mon, 3 Jul 00 23:13:05 EDT Contents: Re: So where ARE all of these supposed Linux users? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )) Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do (Gary Hallock) Re: Linux code going down hill (T. Max Devlin) Re: Linux code going down hill (T. Max Devlin) Re: Linux code going down hill (T. Max Devlin) Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Linux code going down hill (T. Max Devlin) Re: Linux code going down hill (abraxas) Re: Where did all my windows go? ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.) (Jonadab the Unsightly One) Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Aaron Kulkis) Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Michael Powe) From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: So where ARE all of these supposed Linux users? Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 02:01:36 GMT In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:10:51 GMT, Peter Wayner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, this was obviously flame bait, but it's still worth noting that it's very hard to count Linux users. There's no central regime collecting taxes, er fees for a copy, so there's no one counting. I've got Linux on 4 machines in my office, but three of them are just old machines I decided to dedicate to experimentation. Do they count? I rarely use them. As long as Rex Ballard spreads lies about the number of Linux users, people will call him on it. At my web site, www.open4success.com I give 11 references that discuss the issues related to sizing the Linux market. These speculations are clearly just that. Microsoft has complete control of nearly every copy of every version of windows sold (including several never officially sold), and can provide extremely accurate numbers. Linux counting starts right out with the very difficult problem that Linux is sold under a license that makes copying completely legal. This means that you can legally install several systems under a single purchase. In Bob Young's Sizing the Linux market, (Link available under www.open4success.com), he suggests that a factor of just over 4 users per unit sold (4 million on 750,000 sales) would be a good measure. In 1997, there were roughly .75 million units sold. The average growth was 270%/year across all competitors. .75 * 2.7 = 2.025 million sold in 1998 2.025 *2.7 = 5.47 million in 1999 5.47 * 2.7 = 14.76 million in 2000. Multiply this by 4 which gives roughly 60 million users. This would account for the U.S. domestic market. In foreign markets, especially Europe and Asia the number of duplicates and sales is nearly impossible to track. One project sponsored by the United Nations resulted in 10 million Linux machines being distributed to 38 3rd world countries. Assuming a duplicatation rate similar to the U.S., this would result in roughly 40 million users outside the U.S. Look, he claims that there are 90 million satisfied Linux users. The US is a little less than half of the worldwide computer market, so that means that there are 45 million computer users in the US, which amount to about 1 in 6 Americans being a "satisified Linux user". In my http://www.open4success.com/LinuxGrowth.html I give my definition of a "qualified Linux user". This would be anyone who has successfully installed Linux and chosen not to remove it from their system. This would include Linux dual-boot users, VMWare users, and Wine users. Of course, many of these users could be included in Microsoft's count as well. In fact, even full-time Linux users would be included in Microsoft's count, since OEMs purchase Windows for each machine sold. The possible exception would be the machines sold with Linux preinstalled. Preinstalled Linux systems exceeded 3 million machines this year. A mere 1.5% compered to the 300 million Microsoft based machines has sold in the last 2 years. Which, as everybody knows, is just patently ludicrous. Maybe 1 in 6 Americans is a user of Linux because they use web pages served up by Linux, Actually, if I used that as a basis, I'd have to include all 300 million Microsoft machines as well :-). Where does Microsoft sell those 300 million unit? Isn't it funny that in a world of 6 billion people, 200 million machines are sold by Microsoft in the U.S.? or fileservers run on Linux, he he touts this as if 1 in 6 Americans uses Linux at home in a satisifed manner. You will note that he is counting _users_, not _machines_. Good point. It's very possible that I meant machines :-). Actually, this is a very legitimate point. I am comparing percentages of Linux to sales of Microsoft. There are nearly 600 million users world wide according to
