Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 03:12 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: . If I don't have knowledge I have to read and to ask, I just reported and asked, and get acidness. no, thats not the issue. i think you don't understand that we (JACK) developers see these issues reported day after day after day, not just by you but by other people. they are all issues that, for the most part, we are powerless to affect. the issues are caused/created/affected by the actions of distribution packagers and can only be solved by them. it is incredibly frustrating watching user after user after user grapple with stupid system configuration problems that we did not create just to try to get JACK to run. whether its the complete lack of any way to get real time scheduling to work, or the wrong version of PAM or the wrong kernel or no version of limits.conf to edit, or no pre-existing user group, or an ancient version of JACK, or a version of JACK with a totally broken and utterly ridiculous library dependency name, or versions of JACK built with the wrong assembler options ... watching users struggle with this stuff is just incredibly frustrating and sometimes that spills over to our interactions with users. i for one am close to abandoning all efforts to provide support assistance to people using JACK on anything other than a small handful of Linux distributions, because i am sick and tired of this ridiculous situation. its been nearly 4 years since we got mainstream kernels that were capable of supporting JACK and pro-audio/music apps out of the box. the fact that users today are still dealing with the total crapfest that we see every day on IRC and on the mailing lists is just totally unacceptable. i don't know whose fault it is (maybe its mine, i'm not ruling it out), but its a totally waste of everyone's time. distros: people want creativity apps on linux. for audio this means that you users will run JACK. with realtime scheduling priviledges. and they will possibly upgrade JACK before you do. fix it! please! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:31:22PM +0100, oc2...@arcor.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb Thomas Kuther: @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman. Currently there is: * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5 * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1 Now if I tick the box in YaST to install jack it pulls in libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png nor the packman package or yast is broken... pulseaudio-module-jack has a (wrong ?) requires to jack instead libjack.so.1 (or a other program in your system) . And as there are more than one provider for jack, yast pulls in the first provider for jack it finds. and this is only possible because, there are 2 packages, for libjack and jack. Why do you think we distibute them in one package ? They make no sense without each other. STOP SPLITTING JACK UP. So the bad packages in this dependency hell are the ones who has a Requires: jack Regards, Thomas have fun Toni ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev -- torben Hohn http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [Jack-Devel] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Hi Oc2pus :) I'm sorry that I boiled over. Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb torb...@gmx.de: snip just install a self built source OVER the stuff from the package. and then run ldconfig as root. but use ./configure --prefix=/usr in the configure step ! otherwise your installation will be installed in /usr/local instead of /usr and a new round of problems will start. The Release date for openSUSE 11.1 still is the 12-18-2008. If I will have the time, I'll try to fix my 11.0, just to learn what to do, if something like that happens, but I decided to delete my 11.0, the 11.0 backup the and the 11.1 RC and to install the 11.1. I only will keep the /homes of 11.0 and 11.1 RC. I guess I can use he /home of 11.1 RC for my 11.1 without trouble. I'm not sure if I'll use the 64bit version again. There is a kernel vs hardware issue for 64bit hardware (for any distro). Probably it won't help to run 32bit on 64bit hardware, but nobody seems to know this. It seems to be that (what for some people means really) stable for 64bit hardware needs realtime kernels 2.6.21 and 2.6.22, while for 32bit hardware even kernel 2.6.26 now might be fine. Cheers, Ralf signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Thomas Kuther wrote: On Di, 16.12.08 06:12 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: What I'm thinking of, isn't to erase any package, but I hope I used the replace option not correct and that it will be possible to replace jack2 libs by jack libs, or if I like to get jack2 installed correctly, this hopefully will also be fine, if I know how to use the replace options in the right way. And I won't forget to run ldconfig. I would definately clean it up. So, to sum up the how to do this.. 1) Get rid of jack2 (that's jackdmp I guess) Yes, jackdmp now is called jack2 (from the sight of a user like me). Perhaps I should test jack2 too (one day). # rpm -e --nodeps jack2 libjack2-0 libjackserver2-0 2) Just to be sure, also remove jack(1) # rpm -e --nodeps jack libjack0 libjackserver0 libjack-devel libjack0-32bit (I agree with paul that this naming scheme is absolutely ridiculous, on Gentoo it's called like upstream calls it: jack-audio-connection-kit) 3) Now make sure that there are no leftovers of libjack* in /usr/lib and /usr/lib64 and /usr/local/lib (who knows) 4) Then fire up YaST2, and make sure that you unset all ignored conflicts! Extras - Ignorierte Abhängigkeitskonflikte zurücksetzen :D my Linux all are on English, because I need to use lists on English. But I understand what I have to take care about. 5) Reinstall jack by using either the suse-oss, or Jessi's rpm. This is ... If you choose to use packman, use _only_ zypper, and never touch YaST again afterwards! See below. ... the ultimate amends :). So it wasn't because I'm stupid? There is a bug? Hope that helps. -- @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman. Currently there is: * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5 * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1 Now if I tick the box in YaST to install jack it pulls in libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png If I would let YaST go on with that, I would end up with a broken jack install too :) I you, Ralf, used YaST, it really wasn't your fault at all. Regards, Thomas But I have to say, that I was doing this for 11.0,I have a 11.1 RC too, but this comes without JACK at the moment. Thank you very much :) Ralf signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 02:05:05PM +0100, torb...@gmx.de wrote: and this is only possible because, there are 2 packages, for libjack and jack. Why do you think we distibute them in one package ? They make no sense without each other. STOP SPLITTING JACK UP. Sorry, this might have sounded a little bit harsh. But this is a message to ALL packagers. not only packman, but also debian packagers. It looks like we will stop supporting people with distros/repos which split up the libraries from jackd. And just tell them their distro is broken. STOP SPLITTING JACK UP. There is NO reason to do that. So at least fix it with HARD Require of a matching jackd/libjack version in both packages. -- torben Hohn ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] backporting alsa1.0.18a
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 14:26 +0100, Clemens Ladisch wrote: alsa-kernel/core/hrtimer.c:29: error: implicit declaration of function ‘hrtimer_forward_now’ Try this patch: http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-driver.git;a=commitdiff;h=27a32d8efa9a5e3dc4578584baea025e555859cc Stuck at the same place. Am I missing some kind of make clean or undo before ./configure? 2.6.25.8-rt7 compiling as we speak. Lets see how that works out. HTH Clemens ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] backporting alsa1.0.18a
What I did in alsa-kernel/core/hrtimer.c to get it to compile with
2.6.24.7-rt17
+/* Forward a hrtimer so it expires after the hrtimer's current now */
+static inline unsigned long hrtimer_forward_now(struct hrtimer *timer,
+ ktime_t interval)
+{
+ return hrtimer_forward(timer, timer-base-get_time(), interval);
+}
+
... which is verbatim from kernel 2.6.25
Problem solved.
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Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:31:22PM +0100, oc2...@arcor.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb Thomas Kuther: @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman. Currently there is: * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5 * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1 Now if I tick the box in YaST to install jack it pulls in libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png nor the packman package or yast is broken... hmm... ok. it looks like libjack0-0.109.2 is not requiring jack-0.109.2. and jack-0.109.2 only requires libjack0.so which can be provided by libjack2 and libjack1. i consider this broken. -- torben Hohn http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb torb...@gmx.de: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:31:22PM +0100, oc2...@arcor.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb Thomas Kuther: @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman. Currently there is: * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5 * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1 Now if I tick the box in YaST to install jack it pulls in libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png nor the packman package or yast is broken... pulseaudio-module-jack has a (wrong ?) requires to jack instead libjack.so.1 (or a other program in your system) . And as there are more than one provider for jack, yast pulls in the first provider for jack it finds. and this is only possible because, there are 2 packages, for libjack and jack. Why do you think we distibute them in one package ? They make no sense without each other. STOP SPLITTING JACK UP. This fetaure was not packman's idea ... see openSuSE-shared-library policy: http://en.opensuse.org/Shared_Library_Packaging_Policy and even jack2 is providing this scheme: http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/SuggestedPackagingApproach * jack server frontend - virtual package provided by jackd and jackdbus packages * jack server (library) - package containing libjackserver.so at least. Maybe also: essential tools, drivers, inprocess clients. * jackd - package containing jackd binary. This package depends on jack server (library) * jackdbus - package containing jackdbus binary and jack_control script. This package depends on jack server (library) * jack client library - package containing libjack.so * jack client library dev - package containging headers and pkgconfig file for libjack.so * jack server library dev - package containging headers and pkgconfig file for libjackserver.so This shared library policy needs a lot of extra-work but it allows also to update library packages without breaking existing packages and or mass-rebuilds if a so-name of a library is changed (ffmpeg-libs, x264 are well known candidates for changing often API). And if we don't follow the naming-scheme of the base distribution we were lost and have much more troubles. have fun Toni ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb Thomas Kuther: @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman. Currently there is: * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5 * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1 Now if I tick the box in YaST to install jack it pulls in libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png nor the packman package or yast is broken... pulseaudio-module-jack has a (wrong ?) requires to jack instead libjack.so.1 (or a other program in your system) . And as there are more than one provider for jack, yast pulls in the first provider for jack it finds. So the bad packages in this dependency hell are the ones who has a Requires: jack Regards, Thomas have fun Toni ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] backporting alsa1.0.18a
While attemting to install alsa1.0.18a on a system based on Linux2.6.24, I am stuck with: alsa-kernel/core/hrtimer.c:29: error: implicit declaration of function ‘hrtimer_forward_now’ This function was introduced with kernel 2.6.25 - which also happens to be the first kernel where RT-patches breaks for midi. Anybody has got an idea for a workaround? ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] backporting alsa1.0.18a
Jens M Andreasen wrote: While attemting to install alsa1.0.18a on a system based on Linux2.6.24, I am stuck with: alsa-kernel/core/hrtimer.c:29: error: implicit declaration of function ‘hrtimer_forward_now’ Try this patch: http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-driver.git;a=commitdiff;h=27a32d8efa9a5e3dc4578584baea025e555859cc HTH Clemens ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
oc2...@arcor.de writes: and even jack2 is providing this scheme: http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/SuggestedPackagingApproach I've changed the page and it now contains this paragraph: All different releases of JACK should be considered internally incompatible - that is, it should never be considered possible to mix versions of the JACK server with other versions of the JACK library/ies, drivers or internal clients. Packaging should ensure that no packages associated with different releases of JACK are ever installed simultaneously. Especially, having two versions of libjack.so installed simultaneously, often causes JACK programs using one libjack version not being able to operate with JACK server of other version. -- Nedko Arnaudov GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0 pgpyXvxvxdBdF.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Toni wrote: you need rpm -e --nodeps packagename perhaps additionally the option --allmatches if packages are installed twice. than a package is removed and you have a temporary inconsitent system, but if you install immediately the other packages all will be fine :) Thank you :) as I have written, I made a quick test, when I was tired. I bet this is written in the man page too?! Cheers, Ralf signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
On Di, 16.12.08 11:42 Thomas Kuther gim...@sonnenkinder.org wrote: libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png Did I really write that zypper gets it right? It would pull in jack2 even I tell it to install jack, but at least it wouldn't break the box. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] Kernels for audio and MIDI
Original subject: [LAD] backporting alsa1.0.18a Jens M Andreasen wrote: While attemting to install alsa1.0.18a on a system based on Linux2.6.24, I am stuck with: alsa-kernel/core/hrtimer.c:29: error: implicit declaration of function ‘hrtimer_forward_now’ This function was introduced with kernel 2.6.25 - which also happens to be the first kernel where RT-patches breaks for midi. Anybody has got an idea for a workaround? Sorry Jens, I can't help. The people with real knowledge tell stupid people like me, that the kernel 2.6.25 is better than the kernel 2.6.24. At the end it looks like we need kernel 2.6.22 for 64bit, an experience the 64 Studio developers made. stachelmaus hat geschrieben:Schade das es wieder nur englischsprachig geht. Wer ebenfalls die RC testet, kann vielleicht hier hilfreich zur Seite stehen: http://forums.opensuse.org/pre-release- ... ost1906146 http://forums.opensuse.org/pre-release-beta/401422-enable-realtime-audio-midi-opensuse-11-1-rc.html#post1906146 Was ich an der ganzen Sache nicht verstehe (und ich habe nun diesen thread hier, deinen thread im Multimedia Forum, deinen post auf der linux-audio-developers Liste und nun den im opensuse forum gelesen)... Wenn es doch um die Unterstützung neuer Hardware geht, warum baust du dir dann auf einer release-candidate Version von OpenSUSE 11.1 einen kernel selber, der auf einer noch älteren Version von Linux basiert als der in der aktuell stabilen 11.0? Du baust da den 2.6.24er, 11.0 kommt mit 2.6.25-rt, jengelh bietet auch .25er an. Das ergibt, wenn es um die Unterstützung neuer Hardware geht, nicht wirklich viel Sinn, denn die kommt meist mit neueren Linux Versionen. Und btw: http://www.das-dass.de - ! (http://www.linux-club.de/viewtopic.php?f=8t=99372p=605474#p605474) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
oc2...@arcor.de wrote: STOP SPLITTING JACK UP. This fetaure was not packman's idea ... see openSuSE-shared-library policy: http://en.opensuse.org/Shared_Library_Packaging_Policy This is one of the bright ideas adopted from Debian-based systems, but I'm not at all convinced that it's a good idea especially in jack case. Normally the reason for this is that older applications which depend on older shared libraries can co-exist and work with newer applications depending on newer shared libraries. However, for jack this creates a conflict situation which might be hard for the end user to solve. Reason is that the jack server and the shared library for clients are tied to each other by specific version/layout of shared memory block used to communicate. Even if dynamic linking dependency for older applications wouldn't break and the application would continue to load, they will stop actually functioning! For this particular reason there's a specific way to handle also shared library versions. This is not done for binaries, however! Now this bright idea of let's not break old binaries, let's just install bunch of different versions of the same library is doomed for jack (and for many other non-self-contained apps too). It doesn't take into account the dependency between the server version and certain client library version. And even more confusing for the user would be to have two different server versions with applications for two different library versions and the user would start wondering why he cannot route audio between different applications, etc... This shared library policy needs a lot of extra-work but it allows also to update library packages without breaking existing packages and or mass-rebuilds if a so-name of a library is changed (ffmpeg-libs, x264 are well known candidates for changing often API). That's especially what it doesn't achieve with jack. It specifically breaks things, badly... BR, - Jussi ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb torb...@gmx.de: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:31:22PM +0100, oc2...@arcor.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb Thomas Kuther: @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman. Currently there is: * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5 * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1 Now if I tick the box in YaST to install jack it pulls in libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png nor the packman package or yast is broken... hmm... ok. it looks like libjack0-0.109.2 is not requiring jack-0.109.2. and jack-0.109.2 only requires libjack0.so which can be provided by libjack2 and libjack1. i consider this broken. just for the records: these are not packman packages. the packman packages contains a X.pm.Y in the release tag, the actual version is 0.116.1. A lib-package normally doesn't contain a requirement to a program-package. For my packages in the packman repository: As a reaction of this thread, I uploaded new packages for jack and jack2. They are now mutually exclusive and the user must change wich one to use. Formerly jack2 was handled as a update to jack.I followed also the idea from Torben to handle the jack-daemon like a library. The Requires to the underlying library packages where already part of the packman packages. So I hope the problems of upgrading/changing the jack-versions are solved. And a last note to Mr. Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net your posting in the linux-club community is very astonishing. You grab sentences from Paul and others from here and put them in a very very special context to fit your argumentation against SuSE distribution and especially the packman repository. http://www.linux-club.de/viewtopic.php?f=18t=99521p=605724#p605724 And words like überhebliche Schwätzer are very motivating. have fun oc2pus ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
oc2...@arcor.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb torb...@gmx.de: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:31:22PM +0100, oc2...@arcor.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb Thomas Kuther: @ oc2pus, jack in packman is broken, or YaST is. I set up a fresh install in a virtual machine using 11.1RC1 and only added packman. Currently there is: * pulseaudio-module-jack-0.9.12-8.5 * libjack0-0.116.1-0.pm.1 Now if I tick the box in YaST to install jack it pulls in libjackserver2-0 and jack, which of course breaks things, as it keeps libjack0. zypper on the other side gets it right. See the screenshot! http://gimpel.ath.cx/~tom/jack_weirdness.png nor the packman package or yast is broken... hmm... ok. it looks like libjack0-0.109.2 is not requiring jack-0.109.2. and jack-0.109.2 only requires libjack0.so which can be provided by libjack2 and libjack1. i consider this broken. just for the records: these are not packman packages. the packman packages contains a X.pm.Y in the release tag, the actual version is 0.116.1. THAT'S the evilness? You don't know what time it is! Yes, a Suse install comes with default packages @ repo-oss. Is Packman incompatible to Suse repositories? Ican't read anything in the Linux Club howtos, stupid people like me should read. YOU ARE WRONG and tries to blame me, even if I came with the calumet and was sorry that I boiled over. NOW YOU are again twisting the truth. YOU LOSER! A lib-package normally doesn't contain a requirement to a program-package. For my packages in the packman repository: As a reaction of this thread, I uploaded new packages for jack and jack2. They are now mutually exclusive and the user must change wich one to use. Formerly jack2 was handled as a update to jack.I followed also the idea from Torben to handle the jack-daemon like a library. The Requires to the underlying library packages where already part of the packman packages. So I hope the problems of upgrading/changing the jack-versions are solved. And a last note to Mr. Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net your posting in the linux-club community is very astonishing. You grab sentences from Paul and others from here and put them in a very very special context to fit your argumentation against SuSE distribution and especially the packman repository. http://www.linux-club.de/viewtopic.php?f=18t=99521p=605724#p605724 And words like überhebliche Schwätzer are very motivating. have fun oc2pus No I'm Pro-Suse, I was going to write an howto and you always quoted me wrong, BECAUSE I mentioned that if you have knowledge about pro-audio and you are really making music, you need to have different kernels than those from the packages, you need to compile stuff yourself, because you always will get troubles and the moderators made jokes about me, even you MOTHERFUCKER made jokes here. You said IN THIS LIST, NOBODY will have any conflicts, it's only me. You twisting the truth even now, I would like to make Suse a audio and MIDI workstation, that's why I do what I do. IGNORANT PEOPLE like you make it impossible, you are AGAINST SUSE, it's not me. YOU ARE A LIAR and everybody can read it here. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
oc2...@arcor.de wrote: You grab sentences from Paul and others from here and put them in a very very special context to fit your argumentation against SuSE distribution and especially the packman repository. http://www.linux-club.de/viewtopic.php?f=18t=99521p=605724#p605724 And words like überhebliche Schwätzer are very motivating. That's not true! Yes, I quoted Paul Davis. In which context that isn't true? Where have I ever given a statement against Suse? I'm using Suse since 9.0 constantly and I'm compiling for Debian that also has the jack, libjack issue. I argued against your ignorance and your twisting of the truth. I was going to write a howto for Suse and needed help and I said the truth and you said that's not true, I have no knowledge. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
hmm... ok. it looks like libjack0-0.109.2 is not requiring jack-0.109.2. and jack-0.109.2 only requires libjack0.so which can be provided by libjack2 and libjack1. i consider this broken. just for the records: these are not packman packages. the packman packages contains a X.pm.Y in the release tag, the actual version is 0.116.1. well... i looked at some .pm packages. only through rpmfind though. ok. i am sorry that this whole thing contained so much negative energy, but reading ralfs mail makes aggressive. so lets drink some virtual beer together, and let this stuff rest. And Ralf, i hope that, you see that apart from pointing out the problem you did not help in solving this problem. You only distracted us from solving the problem with 10kb mails. and also pushed oc2pus into defense. I dont care what happenend at linux club. And i dont think that its a reason to get angry if you are being laughed at by some random forum users. We are doing this because we like to do it. And such negative energy just makes us care less. they are probably not even 18. A lib-package normally doesn't contain a requirement to a program-package. For my packages in the packman repository: As a reaction of this thread, I uploaded new packages for jack and jack2. They are now mutually exclusive and the user must change wich one to use. Formerly jack2 was handled as a update to jack.I followed also the idea from Torben to handle the jack-daemon like a library. The Requires to the underlying library packages where already part of the packman packages. So I hope the problems of upgrading/changing the jack-versions are solved. ok. i will have a look, when your package database has synched. nedko also updated: http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/SuggestedPackagingApproach to make the fact more clear, that there MUST NOT be two versions, of libjack.so on the system. perhaps you can communicate this fact upstream to suse. i dont know how these things works, and who builds the official opesuse packages. or if they just copy a working package, from the alternative repos. trying to :) oc2pus -- torben Hohn http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] JACK for openSUSE 11.0 x86_64
Am Dienstag, 16. Dezember 2008 schrieb torb...@gmx.de: nedko also updated: http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/SuggestedPackagingApproach to make the fact more clear, that there MUST NOT be two versions, of libjack.so on the system. perhaps you can communicate this fact upstream to suse. i dont know how these things works, and who builds the official opesuse packages. or if they just copy a working package, from the alternative repos. openSuSE has a bugzilla and you need to register etc etc etc (IMHO makes error reporting very very hard, but this is only my opinion) https://bugzilla.novell.com/index.cgi From my experiences and as openSuSE 11.1 is ready for roll-out, I think its to late for this SuSE version to change the jack-package layout and the error will be in state next-release or won't be fixed. So this should be done for the next SuSE release. And one of the authors of jack should trigger this. You can get the email adress of a packager with rpm -qi jack | grep Packager But in 99,9% o all SuSE packages this results in Packager: http://bugs.opensuse.org == bugzilla have fun oc2pus ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] Just a suggestion about how to handle bug reports
I'm not banned for some mailing list and some of the recipients are very kind, but their lists are joined by people who maybe should pay attention to this. If you want people to report bugs, than - don't laugh about them and say that they are the only one with that problem and they should search the web before they do stupid bug reports. Be careful, sometimes the user might have more knowledge and you only think you're right. - you say they are right, but the bug isn't caused by your software, package-build, wiki, they should search the web and find out them self where they have to report bugs. Users might be stupid, but they won't report a bug for their office suit to ALSA and reporting a bug that has to do with an audio application, might be reported to ALSA, JACK, the kernel community, because they all have to do with such a bug - allow people to report without getting subscribed I'm suggesting this because I misbehaved, when I asked because of a bug. Now I'm banned for a forum and a mailing list, but they grant me, that I have pointed out something that was unknown. But I wasn't the one who pointed out this bug, the web was full of posts from other people, before I even noticed this bug. When they try to report something and been laughed at etc., they don't go on like I did, they won't be idiots like I'm. They won't be banned. A lot of people change over to windows, a lot of people report bugs and nobody cares about, a lot of people won't spend hours in reporting something, by reading rules how to do this, e.g. I was exhorted to write the German word das correctly, because there are rules, that this word sometimes must be written dass instead of das. I often reported bugs to people who than said, they are making music too and that bug didn't exist, a year later it's noticed in a developer list and they have long threads about it and they wonder why nobody reported this before. People don't try to asked, because they have fear to asked in a wrong kind, the wrong questions. If you report a bug you often hear use this distro instead of this distro, if you don't like it, or use Windows instead of Linux, if you don't like it. But you do like a special distro, application etc. ... Things went terrible wrong in the community and it's not a borderline and dyslexic personality like me ... normal people have fear to use Linux, to ask the community. If anybody is interested in what I noticed about Linux audio and MIDI, which bugs I have myself etc., I will go on, because I will stay at Linux for nearly everything, but I guess I have to find something else for multimedia. Hints for alternatives to Linux are welcome. Don't worry, I won't write anything again if I'm unwanted. Good luck for multimedia Linux! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] Just a suggestion about how to handle bug reports
Ralf Mardorf wrote: I'm suggesting this because I misbehaved, when I asked because of a bug. Now I'm banned for a forum and a mailing list, but they grant me, that I have pointed out something that was unknown. But I wasn't the one who pointed out this bug, the web was full of posts from other people, before I even noticed this bug. When they try to report something and been laughed at etc., they don't go on like I did, they won't be idiots like I'm. They won't be banned. That's because you made it clear you'd already pretty badly broken your system, and wouldn't actually do any of the things other posters had told you to do to fix it ;-) Don't take it personally. A lot of people in here get annoyed at the Wah, it's broken, why is no-one helping me! attitude that a lot of people bring. It's worth acquainting yourself with ESR's How To Ask Questions The Smart Way. Things went terrible wrong in the community and it's not a borderline and dyslexic personality like me ... normal people have fear to use Claiming to be dyslexic doesn't really help. I'm very severely dyslexic. I just take the time to make sure what I've written makes sense. People who bash out badly-written nonsense with terrible grammar and worse spelling aren't doing it because they're dyslexic (although they may be), they're doing it because they're lazy. Gordon ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
