Re: [LAD] [offtopic] loopback
I did not get any? ... Not from LAD and not from Gene. Something is working though since Veronica apparently could see the message from Gene. Trying once more /j On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 23:08 -0700, Veronica Merryfield wrote: On 2011-04-12, at 2:04 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Tuesday, April 12, 2011 05:03:51 PM Jens M Andreasen did opine: Test: ISP ate my e-mail ... /j And this one made it through the gauntlet. Or the ISP was sleeping off it's meal. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [offtopic] loopback
Nope. And not this one either. Only from you Veronica. /j On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 00:56 -0700, Veronica Merryfield wrote: Did you get your original test returned to you? On 2011-04-13, at 12:49 AM, Jens M Andreasen wrote: I did not get any? ... Not from LAD and not from Gene. Something is working though since Veronica apparently could see the message from Gene. Trying once more /j On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 23:08 -0700, Veronica Merryfield wrote: On 2011-04-12, at 2:04 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Tuesday, April 12, 2011 05:03:51 PM Jens M Andreasen did opine: Test: ISP ate my e-mail ... /j And this one made it through the gauntlet. Or the ISP was sleeping off it's meal. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [offtopic] loopback
On Wednesday, April 13, 2011 07:15:19 AM Jens M Andreasen did opine: I did not get any? ... Not from LAD and not from Gene. Something is working though since Veronica apparently could see the message from Gene. Trying once more /j On Tue, 2011-04-12 at 23:08 -0700, Veronica Merryfield wrote: On 2011-04-12, at 2:04 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Tuesday, April 12, 2011 05:03:51 PM Jens M Andreasen did opine: Test: ISP ate my e-mail ... /j And this one made it through the gauntlet. Or the ISP was sleeping off it's meal. Doing a reply all this time, so you should get 2 copies if you get one from the list. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) http://tinyurl.com/ddg5bz http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html james but, then I used an Atari, I was more likely to win the lottery in ten countries simultaneously than get accelerated X ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [offtopic] loopback
On Wed, 2011-04-13 at 07:16 -0400, gene heskett wrote: Doing a reply all this time, so you should get 2 copies if you get one from the list. List is not responding. But I got a letter frpm linux-audio-dev-boun...@lists.linuxaudio.org when I tried to resubscribe. No go. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] questions about jack session
Hi, What is needed for a working jack session environment? I was hoping to be able to use it with qjackctl-0.3.7 and jack-0.120.1 but this fails to work: 1) When Save and Quit is selected and Save.. has finished, nothing quits. 2) Applications rarely start when a session is loaded and the entries in the session window have red crosses next to them. I need a working jack session environment because I'm trying to code and test Petri-Foo's Jack session support. So far the set session callback returns without error, but the callback is never called (when using the setup mentioned above). I briefly tried pyjacksm but get inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation errors (is that because of python3/python2 conflicts arising from scripts starting with #!/usr/bin/python ? I tried adding a sed to the AUR PKGBUILD but failed to find the correct search/replace terms.) Any help appreciated, Cheers, James. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] questions about jack session
On 04/13/2011 12:29 PM, James Morris wrote: Hi, What is needed for a working jack session environment? I was hoping to be able to use it with qjackctl-0.3.7 and jack-0.120.1 but this fails to work: 1) When Save and Quit is selected and Save.. has finished, nothing quits. 2) Applications rarely start when a session is loaded and the entries in the session window have red crosses next to them. I need a working jack session environment because I'm trying to code and test Petri-Foo's Jack session support. So far the set session callback returns without error, but the callback is never called (when using the setup mentioned above). I briefly tried pyjacksm but get inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation errors (is that because of python3/python2 conflicts arising from scripts starting with #!/usr/bin/python ? I tried adding a sed to the AUR PKGBUILD but failed to find the correct search/replace terms.) qjackctl = 0.3.7 will only get full jack-session support *iif* it was ever built against libjack-dev-0.120.0 providing the necessary jack/session.h header. otherwise, it's all just a dumbed-down patchbay alternative. as is, it only saves and loads for existing client connections--eventually, it may succeed and those red crosses will disapeer, one after another. please read your qjackctl/about box whether there's a JACK Session support disabled written in red. that should say it all cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rn...@rncbc.org ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] questions about jack session
On 13 April 2011 12:42, Rui Nuno Capela rn...@rncbc.org wrote: please read your qjackctl/about box whether there's a JACK Session support disabled written in red. that should say it all Yeah, that says it all :/ Doh. Thanks. James. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] questions about jack session
On 13 April 2011 12:44, James Morris jwm.art@gmail.com wrote: On 13 April 2011 12:42, Rui Nuno Capela rn...@rncbc.org wrote: please read your qjackctl/about box whether there's a JACK Session support disabled written in red. that should say it all Yeah, that says it all :/ Doh. Thanks. ... The ARCH qjackctl package needs to be rebuilt against the newer JACK then... ? The release date of the ARCH package is a couple of days after the release of the recent QjackCtl. Will QjackCTL cope if it was built with JACK Session support (on machine x) but running (on machine y) against a JACK without session support? Cheers, James. James. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] questions about jack session
On 04/13/2011 01:00 PM, James Morris wrote: On 13 April 2011 12:44, James Morrisjwm.art@gmail.com wrote: On 13 April 2011 12:42, Rui Nuno Capelarn...@rncbc.org wrote: please read your qjackctl/about box whether there's a JACK Session support disabled written in red. that should say it all Yeah, that says it all :/ Doh. Thanks. ... The ARCH qjackctl package needs to be rebuilt against the newer JACK then... ? The release date of the ARCH package is a couple of days after the release of the recent QjackCtl. Will QjackCTL cope if it was built with JACK Session support (on machine x) but running (on machine y) against a JACK without session support? theoretically yes but murphy may have a different opinion ;) byee -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rn...@rncbc.org ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [ann] CAPS 0.4.5
On 12/04/11 06:00 AM, Tim Goetze wrote: [David Robillard] No, the pragmatic thing to do is not deliberately break your plugin when several knowledgeable people have pointed out that doing so can cause countless problems. Again: not the plugin is broken, but the host that assumes the port signature not to change over different plugin versions. No, a given index on your plugin no longer refers to the same port, therefore the interface to the plugin has been broken, period. There is no mention of such a requirement in the interface specification, therefore the assumption is invalid and the responsibility for potential breakage lies with the host. This assumption is obvious, since indices are the ID for a port. To argue that this is not true is literally equivalent to arguing that LADSPA does not support saving session/patch/etc files in any way, at all, whatsoever, since indices are meaningless and can not be relied upon to refer to the same port when the plugin is reloaded later. Obviously this is absurd. Your assumption, that hosts must refer to ports by an index within a special separate index namespace for control and audio ports, is a much greater one: it is not obvious, and the alternative is not absurd. It is, in other words, clearly not in the language or spirit of LADSPA. There is no reason someone reading ladspa.h and writing an implementation would reasonably come to the conclusion that this is the required correct behavior. It has been shown that properly designed hosts handle the port addition just fine. This is just conveniently, but erroneously, redefining properly designed hosts to mean hosts that won't break when I break my plugin in this particular way. You may of course argue - not entirely unreasonably - that it is more pragmatic for the plugin author to cater for broken hosts than to expect them to be fixed. Do you? No, because the host is not broken, as myself and others (including one of the main authors of LADSPA itself, and the main author of the host in question) have explained several times over. You are trying to argue that LADSPA does not present this assumption that indices refer to a constant port, but as mentioned above, this is an obvious conclusion, since the alternative is absurd (ports clearly must have /some/ ID). LADSPA certainly does not specify the more complex definition of correct use of port indices that you are trying to justify (nor should it, for several reasons, but that is beside the point). The simplest, most obvious, and intended rule is: If a given port index does not refer to the same port on a new version of a plugin, then the plugin interface has broken and the plugin ID MUST be changed. As Fons mentioned, this is effectively a different plugin. Your definition, which splits the port index namespace into two separate namespaces, one for control and one for audio, is not obviously intended and is not mentioned or alluded to anywhere in LADSPA whatsoever. Hosts that do not do this are not broken. That every single host author who has participated in this thread agrees, and the fact that you need to add a version number so one can kludge around the broken plugin, makes that pretty clear... Cheers, -dr P.S. I do empathize with the fact that changing IDs where it /could/ not be necessary sucks; this is why LV2 has symbols which are the ID for a port instead. However, LADSPA is LADSPA, and doing what you are proposing is going to cause real headaches for real people, and would be remarkably unskillful given the feedback in this thread... please just don't do it :) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
[LAD] LAC 2011 programme is online.
Hi all, It's been online for a while, but with 4 weeks to go: the conference-programme is now officially fixed: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2011/?page=program and for your xPhone or googol-calendar: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2011/vcal.php Should you attend LAC, please register if you have not done so: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2011/?page=registration If you can not make it to Maynooth: live streams will be available during the conference and the recordings and papers will also be published online afterward. Looking forward to seeing you in Maynooth! PS. We are going to provide some printed copies of the programme at the conference registration-desk, but if you wish to do a colorful print yourself: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2011/printprogram.php Set your browser's File-Print-Options-Print background colors or simply run: wkhtmltopdf -s A4 --minimum-font-size 18 \ http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2011/printprogram.php \ lac2011.pdf -- Robin Gareus 84bis Rue de Grenelle 75007 Paris, France mobile: +33 612 738 346 mailto: ro...@gareus.org jabber: xmpp:rgar...@ik.nu phone fax: +33 95 222 567 2 Public Key at http://pgp.mit.edu/ Fingerprint : 7107 840B 4DC9 C948 076D 6359 7955 24F1 4F95 2B42 ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [ann] CAPS 0.4.5
On April 13, 2011 02:11:02 pm David Robillard wrote: On 12/04/11 06:00 AM, Tim Goetze wrote: [David Robillard] No, the pragmatic thing to do is not deliberately break your plugin when several knowledgeable people have pointed out that doing so can cause countless problems. Again: not the plugin is broken, but the host that assumes the port signature not to change over different plugin versions. No, a given index on your plugin no longer refers to the same port, therefore the interface to the plugin has been broken, period. But he only wants to add a new port, not change them around or remove them, doesn't he? So the indexes are not changing. So long as this new port comes after all the others, including audio, what's the problem? Our MusE can cope, can the others? I agree that if this new port were to be sandwiched among the others or if he were removing ports, that's breakage. How is a plugin supposed to grow and mature? I mean the Caps ToneStack gained a few 'model' values over the years. Did it change unique ID? Every time he wants to add a new port he's got to change the ID? So we end up with ten different versions with ten different IDs? Maybe the others are referring to breaking lrdf (I'm just learning lrdf now). Or if someone tries to load a song referring to the new plugin version, on an older system having the old plugin version. But I know MusE can still handle that, when loading a song it just ignores any port ID out of range of the number of ports. It's a tough decision I know, I empathize, and if the consensus is that the ID should be changed, I guess you gotta do it. But surely we could accept this small change, can't we? I mean what, really, would break? Thanks. Tim E. There is no mention of such a requirement in the interface specification, therefore the assumption is invalid and the responsibility for potential breakage lies with the host. This assumption is obvious, since indices are the ID for a port. To argue that this is not true is literally equivalent to arguing that LADSPA does not support saving session/patch/etc files in any way, at all, whatsoever, since indices are meaningless and can not be relied upon to refer to the same port when the plugin is reloaded later. Obviously this is absurd. Your assumption, that hosts must refer to ports by an index within a special separate index namespace for control and audio ports, is a much greater one: it is not obvious, and the alternative is not absurd. It is, in other words, clearly not in the language or spirit of LADSPA. There is no reason someone reading ladspa.h and writing an implementation would reasonably come to the conclusion that this is the required correct behavior. It has been shown that properly designed hosts handle the port addition just fine. This is just conveniently, but erroneously, redefining properly designed hosts to mean hosts that won't break when I break my plugin in this particular way. You may of course argue - not entirely unreasonably - that it is more pragmatic for the plugin author to cater for broken hosts than to expect them to be fixed. Do you? No, because the host is not broken, as myself and others (including one of the main authors of LADSPA itself, and the main author of the host in question) have explained several times over. You are trying to argue that LADSPA does not present this assumption that indices refer to a constant port, but as mentioned above, this is an obvious conclusion, since the alternative is absurd (ports clearly must have /some/ ID). LADSPA certainly does not specify the more complex definition of correct use of port indices that you are trying to justify (nor should it, for several reasons, but that is beside the point). The simplest, most obvious, and intended rule is: If a given port index does not refer to the same port on a new version of a plugin, then the plugin interface has broken and the plugin ID MUST be changed. As Fons mentioned, this is effectively a different plugin. Your definition, which splits the port index namespace into two separate namespaces, one for control and one for audio, is not obviously intended and is not mentioned or alluded to anywhere in LADSPA whatsoever. Hosts that do not do this are not broken. That every single host author who has participated in this thread agrees, and the fact that you need to add a version number so one can kludge around the broken plugin, makes that pretty clear... Cheers, -dr P.S. I do empathize with the fact that changing IDs where it /could/ not be necessary sucks; this is why LV2 has symbols which are the ID for a port instead. However, LADSPA is LADSPA, and doing what you are proposing is going to cause real headaches for real people, and would be remarkably unskillful given the feedback in this thread... please just don't do it :) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Re: [LAD] [ann] CAPS 0.4.5
On April 13, 2011 05:03:45 pm you wrote: On April 13, 2011 02:11:02 pm David Robillard wrote: On 12/04/11 06:00 AM, Tim Goetze wrote: [David Robillard] No, the pragmatic thing to do is not deliberately break your plugin when several knowledgeable people have pointed out that doing so can cause countless problems. Again: not the plugin is broken, but the host that assumes the port signature not to change over different plugin versions. No, a given index on your plugin no longer refers to the same port, therefore the interface to the plugin has been broken, period. But he only wants to add a new port, not change them around or remove them, doesn't he? So the indexes are not changing. So long as this new port comes after all the others, including audio, what's the problem? Our MusE can cope, can the others? I agree that if this new port were to be sandwiched among the others or if he were removing ports, that's breakage. How is a plugin supposed to grow and mature? I mean the Caps ToneStack gained a few 'model' values over the years. Did it change unique ID? Every time he wants to add a new port he's got to change the ID? So we end up with ten different versions with ten different IDs? Maybe the others are referring to breaking lrdf (I'm just learning lrdf now). Or if someone tries to load a song referring to the new plugin version, on an older system having the old plugin version. But I know MusE can still handle that, when loading a song it just ignores any port ID out of range of the number of ports. It's a tough decision I know, I empathize, and if the consensus is that the ID should be changed, I guess you gotta do it. But surely we could accept this small change, can't we? I mean what, really, would break? Thanks. Tim E. Ah, just read up the thread terribly sorry. LV2 issues and such plus that bridge. A new plugin would be best. It's OK, we see it in some other plugins, incremental upgrades. I never seemed to notice or mind much, guess I've always assumed that maybe other versions were made by someone else. Tim E. There is no mention of such a requirement in the interface specification, therefore the assumption is invalid and the responsibility for potential breakage lies with the host. This assumption is obvious, since indices are the ID for a port. To argue that this is not true is literally equivalent to arguing that LADSPA does not support saving session/patch/etc files in any way, at all, whatsoever, since indices are meaningless and can not be relied upon to refer to the same port when the plugin is reloaded later. Obviously this is absurd. Your assumption, that hosts must refer to ports by an index within a special separate index namespace for control and audio ports, is a much greater one: it is not obvious, and the alternative is not absurd. It is, in other words, clearly not in the language or spirit of LADSPA. There is no reason someone reading ladspa.h and writing an implementation would reasonably come to the conclusion that this is the required correct behavior. It has been shown that properly designed hosts handle the port addition just fine. This is just conveniently, but erroneously, redefining properly designed hosts to mean hosts that won't break when I break my plugin in this particular way. You may of course argue - not entirely unreasonably - that it is more pragmatic for the plugin author to cater for broken hosts than to expect them to be fixed. Do you? No, because the host is not broken, as myself and others (including one of the main authors of LADSPA itself, and the main author of the host in question) have explained several times over. You are trying to argue that LADSPA does not present this assumption that indices refer to a constant port, but as mentioned above, this is an obvious conclusion, since the alternative is absurd (ports clearly must have /some/ ID). LADSPA certainly does not specify the more complex definition of correct use of port indices that you are trying to justify (nor should it, for several reasons, but that is beside the point). The simplest, most obvious, and intended rule is: If a given port index does not refer to the same port on a new version of a plugin, then the plugin interface has broken and the plugin ID MUST be changed. As Fons mentioned, this is effectively a different plugin. Your definition, which splits the port index namespace into two separate namespaces, one for control and one for audio, is not obviously intended and is not mentioned or alluded to anywhere in LADSPA whatsoever. Hosts that do not do this are not broken. That every single host author who has participated in this thread agrees, and the fact that you need to add a version number so one can kludge around the broken plugin, makes that pretty clear... Cheers, -dr P.S. I do
