Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On December 16, 2010 05:39:21 pm you wrote: > On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 14:25 -0800, Dan Kegel wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Tim E. Real wrote: > > >> The amiga is actually fairly late model here folks, I started with a > > >> quest super elf I built from a kit. Circa '77. > > > > > > 1802 CPU fan here too. Mine was RCA COSMAC VIP 1802. > > > Added 3 channel sound (Famous G.I. AY3- chip) and > > > colour graphics with T.I. 9918 chip, after read Circuit Cellar article > > > on it. Oh what fun... > > > > My first system was, IIRC, an Intersil 6100 (single-chip pdp-8 clone) > > that my Dad designed and I wire-wrapped. It had a four digit LED > > display and a keypad. I wrote my first real-world-affecting > > program on it by using a 74c06 as a speaker driver, controlling it > > with a single bit, and then flipping that bit with a hand-coded loop > > to make all kinds of sirens. Good times! > > - Dan > > Aaargh, I had an amp from an established company, can't remember > this company, everything was connected by wire-wrapping, so indeed a > good discrete circuit, but the wire-wrapping did cause defects. Btw. I > prefer good old leaded solder, but leaded solder in Germany isn't > allowed anymore. We should start to wire-wrap all electronic devices for > our politicians here :p. > > Cheers! > > Ralf Yeah, the trouble with lead-free solder is that EVERY joint looks cloudy cold and bad, even if it's good. Very hard to tell if it's a good joint. A bit frustrating from technician viewpoint. Different type of product as well. Choose carefully. When repairing, Mfr A says use this type, Mfr B says use that type. Leaded solder still available here, but can't be used in new products. If all else fails, use chewing gum and wrappers, like McGyver! Tim. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On 12/17/2010 01:34 PM, Arnold Krille wrote: Apart from the political discussions, amazon has a very nice pricing model for disk-space in their s3-cloud. You don't pay for the ability to store X GB, you pay for the actual space (and transfer bandwidth) you use. Surely other companies will start doing more of that in countries where the data can be kept safe for the recently mentally cured. -- ailo ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Friday 17 December 2010 13:11:58 ailo wrote: > On 12/17/2010 10:36 AM, Philipp Überbacher wrote: > > As for my university, as far as I know they use some RAID system for > > everyday and tapes for sensitive data. And they already had their whole > > RAID fail at the same time. > > > > ___ > > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev > > I've been busy setting up a system where all the data on my machines are > partly mirrored with each other and fully backed up to a home server > (not much unlike what google offers, though I don't keep a mail server). > There are two problems as I see it with this setup (other than working > out the mirroring/backup system). > The first is internet bandwidth. If you need more than one 100Mbit > connection it can get a little expensive (it will propably be worth it > in a couple of years, I think). > The other is the risc of lightning. Better to have the backup/sync > server at a remote location. > > For keeping stuff in the cloud (which solves a lot of problems), I would > find it strange if not web hotels will try to compete with google, but > using addon software with windows/ mac/ linux instead. > In my mind all the prices for different services (apart from webpage > hosting, perhaps) are still much too high. The value of diskspace is > ridiculous with services like Dropbox and the like. > For important backups, a smaller diskspace will suffice. For audio > related projects, diskspace is kind of important to consider. > > Google can offer a priceless service up to a certain disksize. I would > be prepared to pay for an "account" (not google), if I got just a little > more for my money, which I'm sure will happen in the coming few years. Apart from the political discussions, amazon has a very nice pricing model for disk-space in their s3-cloud. You don't pay for the ability to store X GB, you pay for the actual space (and transfer bandwidth) you use. Have fun, Arnold signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On 12/17/2010 10:36 AM, Philipp Überbacher wrote: As for my university, as far as I know they use some RAID system for everyday and tapes for sensitive data. And they already had their whole RAID fail at the same time. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev I've been busy setting up a system where all the data on my machines are partly mirrored with each other and fully backed up to a home server (not much unlike what google offers, though I don't keep a mail server). There are two problems as I see it with this setup (other than working out the mirroring/backup system). The first is internet bandwidth. If you need more than one 100Mbit connection it can get a little expensive (it will propably be worth it in a couple of years, I think). The other is the risc of lightning. Better to have the backup/sync server at a remote location. For keeping stuff in the cloud (which solves a lot of problems), I would find it strange if not web hotels will try to compete with google, but using addon software with windows/ mac/ linux instead. In my mind all the prices for different services (apart from webpage hosting, perhaps) are still much too high. The value of diskspace is ridiculous with services like Dropbox and the like. For important backups, a smaller diskspace will suffice. For audio related projects, diskspace is kind of important to consider. Google can offer a priceless service up to a certain disksize. I would be prepared to pay for an "account" (not google), if I got just a little more for my money, which I'm sure will happen in the coming few years. -- ailo ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 12:48 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote: > On Friday 17 December 2010 10:36:47 Philipp Überbacher wrote: > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the average > > life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 years. If > > 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape seems like a > > good idea. > > If you want long-time storage of information, the only thing that has proven > stable so far is (micro-)film or print to paper (with laser-printer). Assumed the micro-film is stored air-conditioned and the paper isn't low cost copy paper from the supermarket, that will moldered at least after 50 years, even if you'll store it air-conditioned. For paper you need very expensive paper. Micro-film IMO is the better choice, but anyway delicate if there should be an 'event' during storage. Arnold from DE, remember the archive at Cologne ;). http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,611158,00.html They could save documents for the moment, made of very good paper, but anyway it's not sure that those documents can be saved for a long time, after they get wet. > Its no use when the tape holds the information for 80 years when the drives > and connected hardware are obsolete and out-of-production after max of 20 > years... > > Have fun, > > Arnold > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Friday 17 December 2010 10:36:47 Philipp Überbacher wrote: > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the average > life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. From what I heard the magnetic tapes > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 years. If > 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape seems like a > good idea. If you want long-time storage of information, the only thing that has proven stable so far is (micro-)film or print to paper (with laser-printer). Its no use when the tape holds the information for 80 years when the drives and connected hardware are obsolete and out-of-production after max of 20 years... Have fun, Arnold signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 06:26 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, December 17, 2010 06:13:53 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > > > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:57 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:52:17 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > > > > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp �berbacher did > > > > > opine: [...] > > > > > > > > > > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the > > > > > > average life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. > > > > > > > > > > Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color > > > > > Computer that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old > > > > > Quantum P40S beside it the other day that must be close to 18 > > > > > years old. No bad sectors were found when I did a logical verify > > > > > of the surface. > > > > > > > > Ok, my 40MB SCSI Seagate for the Atari is ok for more than 20 years, > > > > heavy usage, several startups a day. Sometimes I need to start it 2 > > > > or 3 times, but than it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > > > > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 > > > > > > years. If 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then > > > > > > tape seems like a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working > > > > > tape drive to read those old tapes in even 40 years? > > > > > > > > For analog tapes Dirk Brauner had Telefunken machines that are as > > > > old as you are and they were better than a lot of modern machines > > > > ;). > > > > > > I'll have to call you on that one, Ralf. It was some of your folks > > > that invented the wire recorder in about '38 or '39, and the coated > > > paper tape was sometime in the later 40's. I was born in '34. > > > > I corrected myself, it's just because you're looking younger on your > > photos ;). > > Of course I do, that pic on my front page is 6 years old now. ;-) > > > Of cause, I guess the Telefunk - or was it AEG? - machines > > were without tubes. The magnetic tape head had visible slots. > > The first Telefunken wire, or tape machines I saw, were definitely tubes. > And older types at that, 8 pin octal based stuff. Yes folks, I have been > chasing electrons for a living for a long time. And TBT, my first > experience with a wire machine was enough to break me of any further > interest. No amount of level winding contraptions could stop the > backlashes & broken wire. Not to mention the head wear rate was very high. > At least we could get 200-400 hours out of the first tape heads if we fed > then plastic tape. Wire, maybe 50 hours as the wire sawed them deeply in > just a few hours. > > > Because the tapes were stored spooled to the end, there even was no > > audible crosstalk at the beginning of the recordings. > > Print through was a real problem in the early years. Ah, it's called "print through" on English. It still was a problem for the last tape cassette recorders ;). The GDR did build audio and computer equipment that was durable at very high quality, but I guess just people like me, born in the FRD could pay for it and btw. it was very cheap here in western Germany. I'm using GDR's RFT B3010 HIFI as near field monitors. 50,- EUR a pair at Ebay. It would be hard to get that quality for 500,- EUR when buying today's near field monitors. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Friday, December 17, 2010 06:13:53 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:57 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:52:17 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > > > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp �berbacher did > > > > opine: [...] > > > > > > > > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the > > > > > average life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. > > > > > > > > Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color > > > > Computer that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old > > > > Quantum P40S beside it the other day that must be close to 18 > > > > years old. No bad sectors were found when I did a logical verify > > > > of the surface. > > > > > > Ok, my 40MB SCSI Seagate for the Atari is ok for more than 20 years, > > > heavy usage, several startups a day. Sometimes I need to start it 2 > > > or 3 times, but than it's ok. > > > > > > > > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > > > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 > > > > > years. If 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then > > > > > tape seems like a good idea. > > > > > > > > That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working > > > > tape drive to read those old tapes in even 40 years? > > > > > > For analog tapes Dirk Brauner had Telefunken machines that are as > > > old as you are and they were better than a lot of modern machines > > > ;). > > > > I'll have to call you on that one, Ralf. It was some of your folks > > that invented the wire recorder in about '38 or '39, and the coated > > paper tape was sometime in the later 40's. I was born in '34. > > I corrected myself, it's just because you're looking younger on your > photos ;). Of course I do, that pic on my front page is 6 years old now. ;-) > Of cause, I guess the Telefunk - or was it AEG? - machines > were without tubes. The magnetic tape head had visible slots. The first Telefunken wire, or tape machines I saw, were definitely tubes. And older types at that, 8 pin octal based stuff. Yes folks, I have been chasing electrons for a living for a long time. And TBT, my first experience with a wire machine was enough to break me of any further interest. No amount of level winding contraptions could stop the backlashes & broken wire. Not to mention the head wear rate was very high. At least we could get 200-400 hours out of the first tape heads if we fed then plastic tape. Wire, maybe 50 hours as the wire sawed them deeply in just a few hours. > Because the tapes were stored spooled to the end, there even was no > audible crosstalk at the beginning of the recordings. Print through was a real problem in the early years. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Experiments must be reproducible; they should all fail in the same way. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 12:05 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:57 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:52:17 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > > > > > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp �berbacher did opine: > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the > > > > > average life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. > > > > > > > > Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color > > > > Computer that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old Quantum > > > > P40S beside it the other day that must be close to 18 years old. No > > > > bad sectors were found when I did a logical verify of the surface. > > > > > > Ok, my 40MB SCSI Seagate for the Atari is ok for more than 20 years, > > > heavy usage, several startups a day. Sometimes I need to start it 2 or 3 > > > times, but than it's ok. > > > > > > > > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > > > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 > > > > > years. If 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape > > > > > seems like a good idea. > > > > > > > > That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working tape > > > > drive to read those old tapes in even 40 years? > > > > > > For analog tapes Dirk Brauner had Telefunken machines that are as old as > > > you are and they were better than a lot of modern machines ;). > > > > I'll have to call you on that one, Ralf. It was some of your folks that > > invented the wire recorder in about '38 or '39, and the coated paper tape > > was sometime in the later 40's. I was born in '34. > > I corrected myself, it's just because you're looking younger on your > photos ;). Of cause, I guess the Telefunk - or was it AEG? - machines > were without tubes. The magnetic tape head had visible slots. Resp. IIRC the IO audio amps were build with tubes! > > Because the tapes were stored spooled to the end, there even was no > audible crosstalk at the beginning of the recordings. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:57 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:52:17 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > > > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp �berbacher did opine: > > > [...] > > > > > > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the > > > > average life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. > > > > > > Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color > > > Computer that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old Quantum > > > P40S beside it the other day that must be close to 18 years old. No > > > bad sectors were found when I did a logical verify of the surface. > > > > Ok, my 40MB SCSI Seagate for the Atari is ok for more than 20 years, > > heavy usage, several startups a day. Sometimes I need to start it 2 or 3 > > times, but than it's ok. > > > > > > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 > > > > years. If 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape > > > > seems like a good idea. > > > > > > That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working tape > > > drive to read those old tapes in even 40 years? > > > > For analog tapes Dirk Brauner had Telefunken machines that are as old as > > you are and they were better than a lot of modern machines ;). > > I'll have to call you on that one, Ralf. It was some of your folks that > invented the wire recorder in about '38 or '39, and the coated paper tape > was sometime in the later 40's. I was born in '34. I corrected myself, it's just because you're looking younger on your photos ;). Of cause, I guess the Telefunk - or was it AEG? - machines were without tubes. The magnetic tape head had visible slots. Because the tapes were stored spooled to the end, there even was no audible crosstalk at the beginning of the recordings. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:50 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:32:43 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > > > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 11:05 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > I'm turning on my computer several times a day and my drives get > > > broken after 2 years > > > > Last time this happened Gene recommended that I should hit the hard disk > > drive with a hammer on startup and it worked :). I was able to backup > > important data, but I couldn't backup all data. I noticed that after the > > HDD rest for a while, a week or so, it worked better when using the > > hammer, resp. I used a slat. > > I don't recall using the word hammer without the rubber prefix. Pardon, you're right. > That really > is extreme, although I do have an old Maxtor 7120S that needs a pretty good > bump to get it started. Once running, it has no bad sectors yet. The idea > is that you give the drive a good bump, with the ball of your hand, or a > small rubber hammer, striking the corner of the case so that the drives > case is spun a few degrees in the same plane the disks inside turn. This > breaks the heads loose from the disks, which have become so polished that > they stick to the disk like a set of machinists 'Joes Blocks' which are so > highly polished that one can bring them together in whatever thickness you > need to set a gage with, by twisting them. They will remain stuck together > until you twist them again breaking the atomic bond. If the drives case, > and the heads attached to it, can be given enough of a twisting motion > relative to the disks, by a sideways blow on the corner of the case, the > heads will come loose and the drive motor will then have enough power to > get the disks started. The heads will be flying on a film of air, as they > are designed to do, before the disks have turned half a turn. Soft wood > might do as it would dent, cushioning the blow somewhat without damaging > the case casting. I used Norway spruce :), anyway the click, click appeared when I tried to backup a Windos XP pro install :D, I could backup all Linux installs, perhaps 60GB from a 80GB drive. Maybe I could have backup Windows too, I didn't try it a second time, because I don't need Windows. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:52:17 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp �berbacher did opine: > > [...] > > > > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the > > > average life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. > > > > Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color > > Computer that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old Quantum > > P40S beside it the other day that must be close to 18 years old. No > > bad sectors were found when I did a logical verify of the surface. > > Ok, my 40MB SCSI Seagate for the Atari is ok for more than 20 years, > heavy usage, several startups a day. Sometimes I need to start it 2 or 3 > times, but than it's ok. > > > > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 > > > years. If 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape > > > seems like a good idea. > > > > That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working tape > > drive to read those old tapes in even 40 years? > > For analog tapes Dirk Brauner had Telefunken machines that are as old as > you are and they were better than a lot of modern machines ;). I'll have to call you on that one, Ralf. It was some of your folks that invented the wire recorder in about '38 or '39, and the coated paper tape was sometime in the later 40's. I was born in '34. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Fools rush in -- and get the best seats in the house. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:32:43 am Ralf Mardorf did opine: > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 11:05 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I'm turning on my computer several times a day and my drives get > > broken after 2 years > > Last time this happened Gene recommended that I should hit the hard disk > drive with a hammer on startup and it worked :). I was able to backup > important data, but I couldn't backup all data. I noticed that after the > HDD rest for a while, a week or so, it worked better when using the > hammer, resp. I used a slat. I don't recall using the word hammer without the rubber prefix. That really is extreme, although I do have an old Maxtor 7120S that needs a pretty good bump to get it started. Once running, it has no bad sectors yet. The idea is that you give the drive a good bump, with the ball of your hand, or a small rubber hammer, striking the corner of the case so that the drives case is spun a few degrees in the same plane the disks inside turn. This breaks the heads loose from the disks, which have become so polished that they stick to the disk like a set of machinists 'Joes Blocks' which are so highly polished that one can bring them together in whatever thickness you need to set a gage with, by twisting them. They will remain stuck together until you twist them again breaking the atomic bond. If the drives case, and the heads attached to it, can be given enough of a twisting motion relative to the disks, by a sideways blow on the corner of the case, the heads will come loose and the drive motor will then have enough power to get the disks started. The heads will be flying on a film of air, as they are designed to do, before the disks have turned half a turn. Soft wood might do as it would dent, cushioning the blow somewhat without damaging the case casting. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) There are no accidents whatsoever in the universe. -- Baba Ram Dass ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 11:40 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp Überbacher did opine: > > [...] > > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the average > > > life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. > > > > Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color Computer > > that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old Quantum P40S beside it > > the other day that must be close to 18 years old. No bad sectors were > > found when I did a logical verify of the surface. > > Ok, my 40MB SCSI Seagate for the Atari is ok for more than 20 years, > heavy usage, several startups a day. Sometimes I need to start it 2 or 3 > times, but than it's ok. > > > > > > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 years. If > > > 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape seems like a > > > good idea. > > > > That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working tape drive > > to read those old tapes in even 40 years? > > For analog tapes Dirk Brauner had Telefunken machines that are as old as > you are and they were better than a lot of modern machines ;). Perhaps they were a little bit younger, but you ;). IIRC they did use transistors. > > > Here, I use 4 1Tb drives as > > individual drives, 3 of which have individual installs on them, and the 4th > > is for amanda, doing nightly backups of whatever install I am running this > > year. With smartd running, I have been told far enough in advance of an > > impending drive failure that my email corpus has not been lost since early > > 2002. > > > > > As for my university, as far as I know they use some RAID system for > > > everyday and tapes for sensitive data. And they already had their whole > > > RAID fail at the same time. > > > > So have I observed. Twice that I know of at my former, and occasionally > > still, employers. > ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 05:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp Überbacher did opine: > [...] > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the average > > life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. > > Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color Computer > that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old Quantum P40S beside it > the other day that must be close to 18 years old. No bad sectors were > found when I did a logical verify of the surface. Ok, my 40MB SCSI Seagate for the Atari is ok for more than 20 years, heavy usage, several startups a day. Sometimes I need to start it 2 or 3 times, but than it's ok. > > > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 years. If > > 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape seems like a > > good idea. > > That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working tape drive > to read those old tapes in even 40 years? For analog tapes Dirk Brauner had Telefunken machines that are as old as you are and they were better than a lot of modern machines ;). > Here, I use 4 1Tb drives as > individual drives, 3 of which have individual installs on them, and the 4th > is for amanda, doing nightly backups of whatever install I am running this > year. With smartd running, I have been told far enough in advance of an > impending drive failure that my email corpus has not been lost since early > 2002. > > > As for my university, as far as I know they use some RAID system for > > everyday and tapes for sensitive data. And they already had their whole > > RAID fail at the same time. > > So have I observed. Twice that I know of at my former, and occasionally > still, employers. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Friday, December 17, 2010 05:15:04 am Philipp Überbacher did opine: [...] > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the average > life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. Some maybe. I have a 1Gb seacrate hawk I use on a TRS-80 Color Computer that is a good 15 years old, and I hooked up an old Quantum P40S beside it the other day that must be close to 18 years old. No bad sectors were found when I did a logical verify of the surface. > From what I heard the magnetic tapes > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 years. If > 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape seems like a > good idea. That seems to be a recipe for disaster. Will there be a working tape drive to read those old tapes in even 40 years? Here, I use 4 1Tb drives as individual drives, 3 of which have individual installs on them, and the 4th is for amanda, doing nightly backups of whatever install I am running this year. With smartd running, I have been told far enough in advance of an impending drive failure that my email corpus has not been lost since early 2002. > As for my university, as far as I know they use some RAID system for > everyday and tapes for sensitive data. And they already had their whole > RAID fail at the same time. So have I observed. Twice that I know of at my former, and occasionally still, employers. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can't, and the other half who have nothing to say and keep on saying it. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 11:05 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I'm turning on my computer several times a day and my drives get > broken after 2 years Last time this happened Gene recommended that I should hit the hard disk drive with a hammer on startup and it worked :). I was able to backup important data, but I couldn't backup all data. I noticed that after the HDD rest for a while, a week or so, it worked better when using the hammer, resp. I used a slat. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 10:36 +0100, Philipp Überbacher wrote: > Excerpts from Arnold Krille's message of 2010-12-16 08:30:32 +0100: > > On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:13:24 Dan Kegel wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > > > Now, if we can just get a law that when I have ... issued the delete to > > > > the server, it truly was deleted > > > > > > For what it's worth, Google's caution in promising deletion > > > is probably because it's not quite sure how to do that > > > quickly. Users would be Very Very Angry if a disk outage > > > or a fire in a datacenter resulted in the loss of their stored > > > email, so Google probably has some sort of offsite backup > > > arrangement, and that might complicate prompt deletion. > > > ... yup, > > > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7401 > > > says > > > "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up > > > to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our > > > backup systems." > > > > > > So, if you were google, would you use tape backup? If so, > > > how would you do that permanent deletion thing? If not, > > > how would you make darn sure you didn't anger users by > > > losing messages during a disaster? > > > > I don't think google uses magnet-tapes or similar for any backups except > > the > > vital core data of its business. Given the number and size of their data- > > centers around the world, they just sync the data to a different part of > > the > > world an be done with it. Of course the deletion has to be synced to all > > remote-copies and probably also forwarded to older backups but once such a > > mechanism is implemented it should do the actual delete within a day... > > > > There are even universities that decided against a new tape-library and in > > favor of a big stack of disks for long-term backup because these where > > cheaper, similar reliable and much faster for restore. And they don't need > > a > > special tape-library-managing app to access the data, a file-browser or the > > command-line is enough... > > > > Have fun, > > > > Arnold > > I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the average > life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. From what I heard the magnetic tapes > used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 years. Those tapes might be very, very expensive. High speed to avoid drop-outs, 2" or so and proved that the coats are absolutely perfect, resp. doing the same backup on different batches of tapes, that were produced on different times. On a coil, but a cassette. Wearhousing will be very, very expensive too. I hear audio tapes that are older than I'm and they were in a very good condition and as I said before, I know professional video tapes that were ruined, because BASF fault during the production of those tapes. > If > 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape seems like a > good idea. > > As for my university, as far as I know they use some RAID system for > everyday and tapes for sensitive data. And they already had their whole > RAID fail at the same time. Possible e.g. by lightning, because lightning protection is not safe or just because of Finagle's law. IMO for less data DVDRAM is good and for much data HDs are the best media we could use, of cause those HD drives need to rest, when not in use. I'm turning on my computer several times a day and my drives get broken after 2 years. IIRC somebody wrote that at his school they use HDs to backup, because of the costs. Btw. today I read the first time about http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Mercury_memory.jpg&filetimestamp=20050221015907 :) and http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trommelspeicher :). ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
Am 14.12.2010 um 21:32 schrieb Paul Davis: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: Stallman hitting the mainstream news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard -stallman-warning He's right. i agree, but how many of us use gmail? I often use a gmail inbox to feed new links to the google index. But not for email. - Burkhard ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
Excerpts from Arnold Krille's message of 2010-12-16 08:30:32 +0100: > On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:13:24 Dan Kegel wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Now, if we can just get a law that when I have ... issued the delete to > > > the server, it truly was deleted > > > > For what it's worth, Google's caution in promising deletion > > is probably because it's not quite sure how to do that > > quickly. Users would be Very Very Angry if a disk outage > > or a fire in a datacenter resulted in the loss of their stored > > email, so Google probably has some sort of offsite backup > > arrangement, and that might complicate prompt deletion. > > ... yup, > > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7401 > > says > > "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up > > to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our > > backup systems." > > > > So, if you were google, would you use tape backup? If so, > > how would you do that permanent deletion thing? If not, > > how would you make darn sure you didn't anger users by > > losing messages during a disaster? > > I don't think google uses magnet-tapes or similar for any backups except the > vital core data of its business. Given the number and size of their data- > centers around the world, they just sync the data to a different part of the > world an be done with it. Of course the deletion has to be synced to all > remote-copies and probably also forwarded to older backups but once such a > mechanism is implemented it should do the actual delete within a day... > > There are even universities that decided against a new tape-library and in > favor of a big stack of disks for long-term backup because these where > cheaper, similar reliable and much faster for restore. And they don't need a > special tape-library-managing app to access the data, a file-browser or the > command-line is enough... > > Have fun, > > Arnold I guess it really depends on what you try to achieve. Afaik the average life-span of a HD is puny 2 years. From what I heard the magnetic tapes used by for example ESA a long time ago have a life-span of 80 years. If 'store it good and forget' is what you're after then tape seems like a good idea. As for my university, as far as I know they use some RAID system for everyday and tapes for sensitive data. And they already had their whole RAID fail at the same time. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 23:24 +, Dan Mills wrote: > On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 00:11 +0100, David Olofson wrote: > > good gas tight join And exactly this was the problem for this amplifier, corrosion. To be fair, I've got a Peavey KB 300 in the storeroom, sometimes it needs a hit, when in use and I had several tube televisions and tube monitors were I needed to re-solder, when they were old, not all successfully. I still have got one monitor that's still broken after I re-soldered it and a friend with better equipment re-soldered it too. I know somebody having a very good discrete circuit Yamaha amplifier with bad soldering joints. So from my experiences it's common that soldering joints fail for television sets, but usually not for other devices, excepted of devices that were soldered on Monday morning in the USA or by soldering slaves in China. > Are you sure you cannot get leaded solder? I did not search for it very much, until now I still have got half of a 1000g 0,75mm STANNOL S-Sn 60 Pb38 Cu2 coil, my favourite solder and perhaps one or another mini coil of other leaded solder. Lead free solder today might be better, than it was years ago, I didn't tested it. What was this thread about ;)? Chrome OS vs wire-wrapping :D. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thursday, December 16, 2010 07:15:52 pm David Olofson did opine: > On Thursday 16 December 2010, at 23.39.21, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > [...] > > > Aaargh, I had an amp from an established company, can't > > remember this company, everything was connected by wire-wrapping, so > > indeed a good discrete circuit, but the wire-wrapping did cause > > defects. Btw. I prefer good old leaded solder, but leaded solder in > > Germany isn't allowed anymore. We should start to wire-wrap all > > electronic devices for our politicians here :p. > > Wire-wrapping... *hehe* > > For my university project (some puny 15 years ago ;-), I decided to have > some serious fun, and designed a MIDI synthesizer around a 68HC11, a > battery backed RAM, some EEPROM and three 8580 (newer SID) chips. 700 > pins, all wire-wrapped. And it even worked! :-) > > Actually, it's quite swift and effective method; it's the cutting and > stripping of the wires that's a PITA, unless you have a really good tool > - which I didn't at the time! :-D The quality of the wrapped connection depended on two items. First was the quality and corner sharpness of the pins, and there were some real crap out there being sold by name brands I won't mention, and the color of the wire. The red wires colored dye would eat the wire in two in 5 years time. It was the same dye that caused the wholesale failures of millions of mike cords on cow barn radios back in the day. The copper of the wire turned ugly brown and it got so brittle that it was not repairable. I started shopping around looking for a suitable replacement cable, and experimented with quite a few that claimed _their_ dyes didn't do that, but they all lied, a lot. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Dr. Jekyll had something to Hyde. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 00:11 +0100, David Olofson wrote: > > Actually, it's quite swift and effective method; it's the cutting and > stripping of the wires that's a PITA, unless you have a really good > tool - which I didn't at the time! :-D Yep a good tool makes all the difference as does using a modified wrap (two turns insulated the rest not) and being smart about the order you stack wraps (link every other pair of pins on a bus then link between the pairs, that way changes require re doing very much less wiring). Nothing wrong with a correctly done wirewrap from a reliability standpoint either, do it right it is better then solder! Now I will grant that it is EASY to stuff up in numerous ways (Using the wrong pin profile is the classic, you need the square pins to generate the pressure at the corners to give a good gas tight join, wirewrap on things like resistor or capacitor leads will fail **Quickly**. Are you sure you cannot get leaded solder? It cannot be used in equipment to be brought to market in the EU (with certain exceptions), but it is certainly still available over here in the UK for rework and prototyping, I would be somewhat surprised if .de was different. Regards, Dan. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thursday 16 December 2010, at 23.39.21, Ralf Mardorf wrote: [...] > Aaargh, I had an amp from an established company, can't remember > this company, everything was connected by wire-wrapping, so indeed a > good discrete circuit, but the wire-wrapping did cause defects. Btw. I > prefer good old leaded solder, but leaded solder in Germany isn't > allowed anymore. We should start to wire-wrap all electronic devices for > our politicians here :p. Wire-wrapping... *hehe* For my university project (some puny 15 years ago ;-), I decided to have some serious fun, and designed a MIDI synthesizer around a 68HC11, a battery backed RAM, some EEPROM and three 8580 (newer SID) chips. 700 pins, all wire-wrapped. And it even worked! :-) Actually, it's quite swift and effective method; it's the cutting and stripping of the wires that's a PITA, unless you have a really good tool - which I didn't at the time! :-D -- //David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate .--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---. | http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com | '-' ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 14:25 -0800, Dan Kegel wrote: > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Tim E. Real wrote: > >> The amiga is actually fairly late model here folks, I started with a quest > >> super elf I built from a kit. Circa '77. > > > > 1802 CPU fan here too. Mine was RCA COSMAC VIP 1802. > > Added 3 channel sound (Famous G.I. AY3- chip) and > > colour graphics with T.I. 9918 chip, after read Circuit Cellar article on > > it. > > Oh what fun... > > My first system was, IIRC, an Intersil 6100 (single-chip pdp-8 clone) > that my Dad designed and I wire-wrapped. It had a four digit LED > display and a keypad. I wrote my first real-world-affecting > program on it by using a 74c06 as a speaker driver, controlling it > with a single bit, and then flipping that bit with a hand-coded loop > to make all kinds of sirens. Good times! > - Dan Aaargh, I had an amp from an established company, can't remember this company, everything was connected by wire-wrapping, so indeed a good discrete circuit, but the wire-wrapping did cause defects. Btw. I prefer good old leaded solder, but leaded solder in Germany isn't allowed anymore. We should start to wire-wrap all electronic devices for our politicians here :p. Cheers! Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Tim E. Real wrote: >> The amiga is actually fairly late model here folks, I started with a quest >> super elf I built from a kit. Circa '77. > > 1802 CPU fan here too. Mine was RCA COSMAC VIP 1802. > Added 3 channel sound (Famous G.I. AY3- chip) and > colour graphics with T.I. 9918 chip, after read Circuit Cellar article on it. > Oh what fun... My first system was, IIRC, an Intersil 6100 (single-chip pdp-8 clone) that my Dad designed and I wire-wrapped. It had a four digit LED display and a keypad. I wrote my first real-world-affecting program on it by using a 74c06 as a speaker driver, controlling it with a single bit, and then flipping that bit with a hand-coded loop to make all kinds of sirens. Good times! - Dan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On December 15, 2010 11:49:03 pm gene heskett wrote: > On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:44:41 pm Ralf Mardorf did opine: > > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 17:42 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > > history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may have > > > been white washed to a high polish by now. > > > > People who put their telephone handset into a thingy to be able to do > > data telecommunication, before there was the Internet for public, tend > > to be more sceptic/paranoid than youngsters ;). > > Never did that. My first modem was a 120 baud device, but it was wired. > Hooked up to the precursor to the coco3 I'm running right now, in the > basement, logged into it over a serial port using minicom on this linux > box. > > > The reason for this is, > > that at that time, we might be hackers our self. I guess we can't > > compare the easy hacking that was possible at C64 times (or Amiga ;), > > with today data protection :D. > > The amiga is actually fairly late model here folks, I started with a quest > super elf I built from a kit. Circa '77. 1802 CPU fan here too. Mine was RCA COSMAC VIP 1802. Added 3 channel sound (Famous G.I. AY3- chip) and colour graphics with T.I. 9918 chip, after read Circuit Cellar article on it. Oh what fun... Tim. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 14:38 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 08:13 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > On Thursday, December 16, 2010 08:12:34 am Arnold Krille did opine: > > > > > On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:13:24 Dan Kegel wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, gene heskett > > wrote: > > > > > Now, if we can just get a law that when I have ... issued the delete > > > > > to the server, it truly was deleted > > > > > > > > For what it's worth, Google's caution in promising deletion > > > > is probably because it's not quite sure how to do that > > > > quickly. Users would be Very Very Angry if a disk outage > > > > or a fire in a datacenter resulted in the loss of their stored > > > > email, so Google probably has some sort of offsite backup > > > > arrangement, and that might complicate prompt deletion. > > > > ... yup, > > > > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7401 > > > > says > > > > "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up > > > > to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our > > > > backup systems." > > > > > > > > So, if you were google, would you use tape backup? If so, > > > > how would you do that permanent deletion thing? If not, > > > > how would you make darn sure you didn't anger users by > > > > losing messages during a disaster? > > > > > > I don't think google uses magnet-tapes or similar for any backups except > > > the vital core data of its business. Given the number and size of their > > > data- centers around the world, they just sync the data to a different > > > part of the world an be done with it. Of course the deletion has to be > > > synced to all remote-copies and probably also forwarded to older > > > backups but once such a mechanism is implemented it should do the > > > actual delete within a day... > > > > > > There are even universities that decided against a new tape-library and > > > in favor of a big stack of disks for long-term backup because these > > > where cheaper, similar reliable and much faster for restore. And they > > > don't need a special tape-library-managing app to access the data, a > > > file-browser or the command-line is enough... > > > > > > Have fun, > > > > > > Arnold > > > > I run amanda here every night, but no tape, big disks instead. Much more > > usable come recovery times. > > Especially at home, where tape means DAT drive. I don't have any DAT > equivalent to store computer data, but 2 audio DAT recorders, both with > broken drives. Those drives with a thing for eating tapes. A friend has > got more, but just two DAT recorders, all recorders also with broken > drives. Another possible issue that isn't that seldom, is that the > carrier coat will loose contact to the magnetic coat. I never heard of > DAT tapes where this happened, but I know this from professional analog > video tapes. At least dropouts could arise by long time storage for such > small tapes. Ok, professional tapes for data storage might be 1/2" to > 2", dunno, but of so, they might be very expensive. I just tar to my USB > stick from time to time or from one HD to another. If we need perfect > data security at home, IMO we should use RAID, but doing backups. Ok, ok, a RAID system still need backups, somebody might delete something etc.. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 08:13 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On Thursday, December 16, 2010 08:12:34 am Arnold Krille did opine: > > > On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:13:24 Dan Kegel wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, gene heskett > wrote: > > > > Now, if we can just get a law that when I have ... issued the delete > > > > to the server, it truly was deleted > > > > > > For what it's worth, Google's caution in promising deletion > > > is probably because it's not quite sure how to do that > > > quickly. Users would be Very Very Angry if a disk outage > > > or a fire in a datacenter resulted in the loss of their stored > > > email, so Google probably has some sort of offsite backup > > > arrangement, and that might complicate prompt deletion. > > > ... yup, > > > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7401 > > > says > > > "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up > > > to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our > > > backup systems." > > > > > > So, if you were google, would you use tape backup? If so, > > > how would you do that permanent deletion thing? If not, > > > how would you make darn sure you didn't anger users by > > > losing messages during a disaster? > > > > I don't think google uses magnet-tapes or similar for any backups except > > the vital core data of its business. Given the number and size of their > > data- centers around the world, they just sync the data to a different > > part of the world an be done with it. Of course the deletion has to be > > synced to all remote-copies and probably also forwarded to older > > backups but once such a mechanism is implemented it should do the > > actual delete within a day... > > > > There are even universities that decided against a new tape-library and > > in favor of a big stack of disks for long-term backup because these > > where cheaper, similar reliable and much faster for restore. And they > > don't need a special tape-library-managing app to access the data, a > > file-browser or the command-line is enough... > > > > Have fun, > > > > Arnold > > I run amanda here every night, but no tape, big disks instead. Much more > usable come recovery times. Especially at home, where tape means DAT drive. I don't have any DAT equivalent to store computer data, but 2 audio DAT recorders, both with broken drives. Those drives with a thing for eating tapes. A friend has got more, but just two DAT recorders, all recorders also with broken drives. Another possible issue that isn't that seldom, is that the carrier coat will loose contact to the magnetic coat. I never heard of DAT tapes where this happened, but I know this from professional analog video tapes. At least dropouts could arise by long time storage for such small tapes. Ok, professional tapes for data storage might be 1/2" to 2", dunno, but of so, they might be very expensive. I just tar to my USB stick from time to time or from one HD to another. If we need perfect data security at home, IMO we should use RAID, but doing backups. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thursday, December 16, 2010 08:12:34 am Arnold Krille did opine: > On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:13:24 Dan Kegel wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Now, if we can just get a law that when I have ... issued the delete > > > to the server, it truly was deleted > > > > For what it's worth, Google's caution in promising deletion > > is probably because it's not quite sure how to do that > > quickly. Users would be Very Very Angry if a disk outage > > or a fire in a datacenter resulted in the loss of their stored > > email, so Google probably has some sort of offsite backup > > arrangement, and that might complicate prompt deletion. > > ... yup, > > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7401 > > says > > "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up > > to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our > > backup systems." > > > > So, if you were google, would you use tape backup? If so, > > how would you do that permanent deletion thing? If not, > > how would you make darn sure you didn't anger users by > > losing messages during a disaster? > > I don't think google uses magnet-tapes or similar for any backups except > the vital core data of its business. Given the number and size of their > data- centers around the world, they just sync the data to a different > part of the world an be done with it. Of course the deletion has to be > synced to all remote-copies and probably also forwarded to older > backups but once such a mechanism is implemented it should do the > actual delete within a day... > > There are even universities that decided against a new tape-library and > in favor of a big stack of disks for long-term backup because these > where cheaper, similar reliable and much faster for restore. And they > don't need a special tape-library-managing app to access the data, a > file-browser or the command-line is enough... > > Have fun, > > Arnold I run amanda here every night, but no tape, big disks instead. Much more usable come recovery times. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The real reason psychology is hard is that psychologists are trying to do the impossible. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 13:38 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 07:41 +, Folderol wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 03:45:23 +0100 > > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > > You can't remember it, because they cleaned your memory at Gitmo ;). > > > > > > Anyway, are you able to prove that Gene is mistaken, regarding to his > > > 'paranoia'? > > > > By definition, Paranoia is the *unreasonable* fear people are plotting > > against > > you. These days such a fear is not at all unreasonable! > > > > Hmmm. Governments around the world can now claim they've cured a mental > > illness :o > > > > The ICD-10 still knows a 'rather schizotypal' paranoia by F22.0, still > more, but an averaged neurotic paranoia, but near to it, but DSM-IV > seems not to know something near to a neurotic paranoia, but the > paranoid personality disorder only, something different to an averaged > more neurotic paranoia. Too funny, perhaps ICD-10 F22.0 might be near to > what we are talking about, still a little bit harder, so yes, by giving > us reasons to feel persecuted, they cured persecution complex / mania, > resp. this neurosis. On the quick I couldn't find any official > classification about this kind of paranoia we're talking about *lol*. We > just could say somebody might have an accentuation of a paranoid > personality disorder or something similar. Google or the governments > cured paranoia ;), unfortunately by giving us reasons to fear. > > Nice statement Fons :). Pardon, Folderol, not Fons :S > > Cheers! > > Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 07:41 +, Folderol wrote: > On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 03:45:23 +0100 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > You can't remember it, because they cleaned your memory at Gitmo ;). > > > > Anyway, are you able to prove that Gene is mistaken, regarding to his > > 'paranoia'? > > By definition, Paranoia is the *unreasonable* fear people are plotting against > you. These days such a fear is not at all unreasonable! > > Hmmm. Governments around the world can now claim they've cured a mental > illness :o > The ICD-10 still knows a 'rather schizotypal' paranoia by F22.0, still more, but an averaged neurotic paranoia, but near to it, but DSM-IV seems not to know something near to a neurotic paranoia, but the paranoid personality disorder only, something different to an averaged more neurotic paranoia. Too funny, perhaps ICD-10 F22.0 might be near to what we are talking about, still a little bit harder, so yes, by giving us reasons to feel persecuted, they cured persecution complex / mania, resp. this neurosis. On the quick I couldn't find any official classification about this kind of paranoia we're talking about *lol*. We just could say somebody might have an accentuation of a paranoid personality disorder or something similar. Google or the governments cured paranoia ;), unfortunately by giving us reasons to fear. Nice statement Fons :). Cheers! Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 03:45:23 +0100 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > You can't remember it, because they cleaned your memory at Gitmo ;). > > Anyway, are you able to prove that Gene is mistaken, regarding to his > 'paranoia'? By definition, Paranoia is the *unreasonable* fear people are plotting against you. These days such a fear is not at all unreasonable! Hmmm. Governments around the world can now claim they've cured a mental illness :o -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thursday 16 December 2010 01:13:24 Dan Kegel wrote: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > Now, if we can just get a law that when I have ... issued the delete to > > the server, it truly was deleted > > For what it's worth, Google's caution in promising deletion > is probably because it's not quite sure how to do that > quickly. Users would be Very Very Angry if a disk outage > or a fire in a datacenter resulted in the loss of their stored > email, so Google probably has some sort of offsite backup > arrangement, and that might complicate prompt deletion. > ... yup, > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7401 > says > "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up > to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our > backup systems." > > So, if you were google, would you use tape backup? If so, > how would you do that permanent deletion thing? If not, > how would you make darn sure you didn't anger users by > losing messages during a disaster? I don't think google uses magnet-tapes or similar for any backups except the vital core data of its business. Given the number and size of their data- centers around the world, they just sync the data to a different part of the world an be done with it. Of course the deletion has to be synced to all remote-copies and probably also forwarded to older backups but once such a mechanism is implemented it should do the actual delete within a day... There are even universities that decided against a new tape-library and in favor of a big stack of disks for long-term backup because these where cheaper, similar reliable and much faster for restore. And they don't need a special tape-library-managing app to access the data, a file-browser or the command-line is enough... Have fun, Arnold signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:50:13 pm Jens M Andreasen did opine: > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 19:45 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > ... but what his own page says now, does not match the emails flying > > around about it back in the day. Unforch, to be able to back that up, > > I would have to have an email corpus that goes back farther than the > > 2002 date, when I had a crashed drive and lost everything .. > > Ironically, if you had had your precious data in "the cloud" rather than > on your own computer, this would not have happened. :-D > > [jma runs away and hides behind his mother] > I would too, after that one. ;-) If you think your data is safe in the cloud, I have a bridge in Sun City AZ I'd like to list for sale. Safe maybe, private? Donbesilly. > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) I invented skydiving in 1989! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:44:41 pm Ralf Mardorf did opine: > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 17:42 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may have > > been white washed to a high polish by now. > > People who put their telephone handset into a thingy to be able to do > data telecommunication, before there was the Internet for public, tend > to be more sceptic/paranoid than youngsters ;). Never did that. My first modem was a 120 baud device, but it was wired. Hooked up to the precursor to the coco3 I'm running right now, in the basement, logged into it over a serial port using minicom on this linux box. > The reason for this is, > that at that time, we might be hackers our self. I guess we can't > compare the easy hacking that was possible at C64 times (or Amiga ;), > with today data protection :D. The amiga is actually fairly late model here folks, I started with a quest super elf I built from a kit. Circa '77. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) LILO, you've got me on my knees! -- David Black, dbl...@pilot.njin.net, with apologies to Derek and the Dominos, and Werner Almsberger ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 05:02 +0100, Jens M Andreasen wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 19:45 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > ... but what his own page says now, does not match the emails flying > > around about it back in the day. Unforch, to be able to back that up, I > > would have to have an email corpus that goes back farther than the 2002 > > date, when I had a crashed drive and lost everything .. > > Ironically, if you had had your precious data in "the cloud" rather than > on your own computer, this would not have happened. :-D > > [jma runs away and hides behind his mother] That's it, mom isn't a good protection against a mercenary soldier or something similar. No doubt about it, Gene did mistaken regarding to 'Penelope' Zimmermann ;). Anyway, is he also mistaken, when being sceptic (I won't call it paranoid)? ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 19:45 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > ... but what his own page says now, does not match the emails flying > around about it back in the day. Unforch, to be able to back that up, I > would have to have an email corpus that goes back farther than the 2002 > date, when I had a crashed drive and lost everything .. Ironically, if you had had your precious data in "the cloud" rather than on your own computer, this would not have happened. :-D [jma runs away and hides behind his mother] ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 23:07 +, Folderol wrote: > On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:51:20 -0500 > Paul Davis wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:42 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, sitting > > > behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back in those > > > years. > > > > > > He did do 2 or 3 years. Don't forget, this is a prime example of that old > > > saw about history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may > > > have > > > been white washed to a high polish by now. > > > > if so, they appear to have wiped google (and wikipedia) clean too. > > there is no record that i can find of zimmerman ever spending time in > > prison for PGP. > > They seem to have wiped my memory as well. Also, I was under the impression > his > first name was Phil, not Pete. > You can't remember it, because they cleaned your memory at Gitmo ;). Anyway, are you able to prove that Gene is mistaken, regarding to his 'paranoia'? ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 17:48 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 05:44:12 pm Dan Kegel did opine: > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:03 AM, Dan Kegel wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Harry Van Haaren > wrote: > > >> Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: > > >> that can prove they are better? > > > > > > I'm afraid every webmail provider in the world is > > > going to have the same basic problem: you shouldn't > > > be trusting other people with your data. > > > > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/breaking-news-eff-victory-appeals- > > court-holds is a ray of hope, though... > > Yes it is. Now, if we can just get a law that when I have pulled the msg > to my machine, and issued the delete to the server, it truly was deleted, > then they would need a search warrant to my machine in order to see > yesterdays emails already pulled. The move has been to make the ISP's hold > those supposedly deleted messages till the statutes run out, and TBT, there > probably isn't an ISP on the planet with THAT much storage, not without > treating it like an unfunded mandate. Which it sure is. Good thought, 'rm' vs 'shred' ;), see 'man shred', but I'm sure they do run 'rm' or any Windows equivalent. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 17:42 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may have > been white washed to a high polish by now. People who put their telephone handset into a thingy to be able to do data telecommunication, before there was the Internet for public, tend to be more sceptic/paranoid than youngsters ;). The reason for this is, that at that time, we might be hackers our self. I guess we can't compare the easy hacking that was possible at C64 times (or Amiga ;), with today data protection :D. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 23:27 +0100, Thomas Mayer wrote: > On 15.12.2010 22:09, Arnold Krille wrote: > > On Wednesday 15 December 2010 21:50:19 David Olofson wrote: > >> On Wednesday 15 December 2010, at 19.56.04, Arnold Krille > >> wrote: > >> [...] > >> > >>> Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for > >>> them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican > >>> police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get > >>> the data... Went through fefe's blog... > >> > >> ...or maybe the files were just truly random noise from an analog source? > >> ;-) > >> > >> ...or the FBI just *said* they couldn't do it, to lull us all into a false > >> sense of security. > > > > Lets take a rational view: > > Let's go back to paranoia: Theo de Raadt's mail of yesterday > > http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2 > > cu Thomas Paranoia! I'm sceptic, but I do agree with Arnold, that OpenPGP is relative save. I'm just joking about possibilities to hack OpenPGP. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:09 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote: > On Wednesday 15 December 2010 21:50:19 David Olofson wrote: > > On Wednesday 15 December 2010, at 19.56.04, Arnold Krille > > wrote: > > [...] > > > > > Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for > > > them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican > > > police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get > > > the data... Went through fefe's blog... > > > > ...or maybe the files were just truly random noise from an analog source? > > ;-) > > > > ...or the FBI just *said* they couldn't do it, to lull us all into a false > > sense of security. > > Lets take a rational view: Most probably that hard-disk was connected with > crime. And as it was Mexico, it would most probably be drugs. If they really > did manage to break the encryption, someone in the chain would have said > something about "thanks to the fbi we know from that hard-disk"... > > Staying rational, I don't think fbi/nsa/cia have enough money to fund years > of > research for quantum computing, producing working results capable of cracking > todays hardest encryptions and not have anyone talk. A note, the bikers I know do have a saying: "Somebody always is watching" ... this means that if you just smash somebodies face, there will be a witness, that you didn't notice. I'm sure, this saying can be extended to "Somebody always will talk, especially when there is the offer, to be or not to be in a Mexican jail ;). > Not that it wouldn't be > possible given enough money, I just don't think they would have managed to > spent enough money on this. > > If you speak German, read the blog from udo vetter (lawblog.de) and watch his > talk on the ccc-congress where he (and several people from the audience) gave > every-day testimonials of encrypted hard-discs where law-enforcement didn't > get any valid data from. I'll do so, ASAP :). > > Have fun, > > Arnold ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 21:47 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote: > On Wednesday 15 December 2010 20:40:20 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 19:56 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote: > > > On Wednesday 15 December 2010 16:41:32 Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > > > > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only > > > > > trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for > > > > > a few years. I have often said, and have been called the uber > > > > > paranoid for it, that one of the conditions of his release was that > > > > > the next generation of pgp had a back door. > > > > > > > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > > > > > > > :-D > > > > > > > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > > > > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > > > > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > > > > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) > > > > > > Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for > > > them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican > > > police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get > > > the data... Went through fefe's blog... > > > > > > Have fun, > > > > > > Arnold > > > > There still is a much easier way to decrypt mails. I'm not talking about > > a completely encrypted hard disk. Get the non-public, private key. Is > > this key saved in a file on a computer that is connected to the web, > > e.g. for usage directly with your mail client? Hack the firewall and get > > that key or burglarise the flat to get access to the non-public, private > > key. > > Still you have to know the password for the key :-P To be honest, I've forgotten about this :D, but anyway, hacking the password, resp. pass'phrase' should be easier to do. When hacking online, the time the pass'phrase' doesn't need to be typed again is important. It's also important how long 'su' for a terminal emulation could be active, without an 'auto'exit is executed, while there isn't activity by the admin. While it isn't easy to hack a good protected Linux, it's relative easy to hack an online audio workstation as mine, no firewall, no AppAmor etc. ;). ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 07:38:50 pm Paul Davis did opine: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only > > trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for > > a few years. I have often said, and have been called the uber > > paranoid for it, that one of the conditions of his release was that > > the next generation of pgp had a back door. �Denials out the yang are > > always instantaneous, but none of them came from Pete, so I have no > > choice but to conclude he is under NDA as the price of his freedom. > > Wrong also: > > Q: I heard a rumor that you cut a deal with the US Government to put a > back door in PGP in order to not be prosecuted for publishing PGP. Is > this true? Come on, you can tell me, I won't tell anyone, I promise. > > A: You heard wrong. No, I didn't cut any deals, and would not have > done so even if it was the only way to stay out of prison. But I > didn't have to negotiate with them at all. After a three year criminal > investigation, they did not indict me, because we beat them. > > This is from his own website: > http://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/faq/index.html > > paranoia will only get you so far gene :) True, but what his own page says now, does not match the emails flying around about it back in the day. Unforch, to be able to back that up, I would have to have an email corpus that goes back farther than the 2002 date, when I had a crashed drive and lost everything I didn't have stored on the CoCo3's hard drive. That goes clear back to the Princeton days of the coco mailing list, but that stops in about 91 when I switched to an amiga, and that whole decade vaporized in drive crash after drive crash. So lets wrap it up and say that Phil's web page is correct. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) You have a deep interest in all that is artistic. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 07:34:43 pm Folderol did opine: > On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:51:20 -0500 > > Paul Davis wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:42 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, > > > sitting behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back > > > in those years. > > > > > > He did do 2 or 3 years. Don't forget, this is a prime example of > > > that old saw about history being written by the winners, so the > > > whole thing may have been white washed to a high polish by now. > > > > if so, they appear to have wiped google (and wikipedia) clean too. > > there is no record that i can find of zimmerman ever spending time in > > prison for PGP. > > They seem to have wiped my memory as well. Also, I was under the > impression his first name was Phil, not Pete. A slip of a mind suffering from flash wearout syndrome? It has been around 76 years now, and I realized the mistake _after_ I hit the send button. It wasn't the first time, and if I wake up in the morning, likely won't be the last. ;-) -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) There is one difference between a tax collector and a taxidermist -- the taxidermist leaves the hide. -- Mortimer Caplan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 07:32:11 pm Paul Davis did opine: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:42 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, > > sitting behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back > > in those years. > > > > He did do 2 or 3 years. �Don't forget, this is a prime example of that > > old saw about history being written by the winners, so the whole > > thing may have been white washed to a high polish by now. > > if so, they appear to have wiped google (and wikipedia) clean too. > there is no record that i can find of zimmerman ever spending time in > prison for PGP. And I have to admit a failure myself at this late date. His home page makes good reading today, but put a extra n on the end of his name. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) There is one difference between a tax collector and a taxidermist -- the taxidermist leaves the hide. -- Mortimer Caplan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, gene heskett wrote: > Now, if we can just get a law that when I have ... issued the delete to > the server, it truly was deleted For what it's worth, Google's caution in promising deletion is probably because it's not quite sure how to do that quickly. Users would be Very Very Angry if a disk outage or a fire in a datacenter resulted in the loss of their stored email, so Google probably has some sort of offsite backup arrangement, and that might complicate prompt deletion. ... yup, http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=7401 says "residual copies of deleted messages and accounts may take up to 60 days to be deleted from our active servers and may remain in our backup systems." So, if you were google, would you use tape backup? If so, how would you do that permanent deletion thing? If not, how would you make darn sure you didn't anger users by losing messages during a disaster? - Dan p.s. I used to work there, so I'm probably more sympathetic to the problems they face than the average privacy activist. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 17:51 -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > if so, they appear to have wiped google (and wikipedia) clean too. > there is no record that i can find of zimmerman ever spending time in > prison for PGP. I have seen Phil speak on the topic of encryption twice, have corresponded with him many times, and was a very early PGP user back in my MSDOS days, and I have no knowledge of him ever having served any jail time due to PGP. He was under investigation for many years, he was harassed at airports, and I'm sure the stress levels took years off his life, but he never did jail time. Best, Ricardus... ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 05:51:20PM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:42 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, sitting > > behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back in those years. Where is 'there' ? What did you observe ? What has a supercharged amiga to do with this ? > > He did do 2 or 3 years. Don't forget, this is a prime example of that old > > saw about history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may have > > been white washed to a high polish by now. > > if so, they appear to have wiped google (and wikipedia) clean too. And reprinted all issues of Cryptologia (quarterly journal about cryptology which I've been reading for the pase 20 years or so), and several books, and the archives of all worldwide news agencies. And of course the memories of a number cryptology researchers I know personally have been reprogrammed as well. Ciao, -- FA There are three of them, and Alleline. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:42 PM, gene heskett wrote: >> > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only >> > trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for >> > a few years. >> >> PZ was never put in jail. He was investigated for illegal export of >> 'munitions', but the US government dropped the case after some years >> without any charges being filed. > > Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, sitting > behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back in those years. > > He did do 2 or 3 years. Are you sure you're not confusing PZ with RS? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Zimmermann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_schwartz http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/18827445/philip-zimmermann-privacy-activist.htm >From a quick scan of the web, it seems PZ did do jail briefly, but it was long before he wrote PGP. - Dan ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few years. > I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that one > of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had a > back door. Denials out the yang are always instantaneous, but none of them > came from Pete, so I have no choice but to conclude he is under NDA as the > price of his freedom. Wrong also: Q: I heard a rumor that you cut a deal with the US Government to put a back door in PGP in order to not be prosecuted for publishing PGP. Is this true? Come on, you can tell me, I won't tell anyone, I promise. A: You heard wrong. No, I didn't cut any deals, and would not have done so even if it was the only way to stay out of prison. But I didn't have to negotiate with them at all. After a three year criminal investigation, they did not indict me, because we beat them. This is from his own website: http://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/faq/index.html paranoia will only get you so far gene :) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:56:24 -0500 gene heskett wrote: > On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 05:51:45 pm Jörn Nettingsmeier did opine: > > > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only > > > trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for > > > a few years. I have often said, and have been called the uber > > > paranoid for it, that one of the conditions of his release was that > > > the next generation of pgp had a back door. > > > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > > > :-D > > > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) > > > Not NASA, FBI. There are reports of 2 or 3 guys witnessing their machinery > busting a post 2.6.2a PGP's key in 30 seconds. No clue if that passes the > snope's sniff test or not, could be nothing more than propaganda to > discourage its use too. It is still a problem for some methods though, > just look at all the hoorah about R.I.M. a few months ago, and I doubt > their encryption is even equal to a 256 bit PGP key. Hmmm. GPG is mostly compatible with PGP and it has had crypto experts working on it for years. I would be surprised if they hadn't noticed any back door by now, and I don't see how PGP could have a major vulnerability without it reflecting back to GPG. Just my 2d -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:51:20 -0500 Paul Davis wrote: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:42 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, sitting > > behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back in those years. > > > > He did do 2 or 3 years. Don't forget, this is a prime example of that old > > saw about history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may have > > been white washed to a high polish by now. > > if so, they appear to have wiped google (and wikipedia) clean too. > there is no record that i can find of zimmerman ever spending time in > prison for PGP. They seem to have wiped my memory as well. Also, I was under the impression his first name was Phil, not Pete. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 05:51:45 pm Jörn Nettingsmeier did opine: > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only > > trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for > > a few years. I have often said, and have been called the uber > > paranoid for it, that one of the conditions of his release was that > > the next generation of pgp had a back door. > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > :-D > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) > Not NASA, FBI. There are reports of 2 or 3 guys witnessing their machinery busting a post 2.6.2a PGP's key in 30 seconds. No clue if that passes the snope's sniff test or not, could be nothing more than propaganda to discourage its use too. It is still a problem for some methods though, just look at all the hoorah about R.I.M. a few months ago, and I doubt their encryption is even equal to a 256 bit PGP key. > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) A little experience often upsets a lot of theory. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:42 PM, gene heskett wrote: > Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, sitting > behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back in those years. > > He did do 2 or 3 years. Don't forget, this is a prime example of that old > saw about history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may have > been white washed to a high polish by now. if so, they appear to have wiped google (and wikipedia) clean too. there is no record that i can find of zimmerman ever spending time in prison for PGP. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 05:44:12 pm Dan Kegel did opine: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:03 AM, Dan Kegel wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Harry Van Haaren wrote: > >> Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: > >> that can prove they are better? > > > > I'm afraid every webmail provider in the world is > > going to have the same basic problem: you shouldn't > > be trusting other people with your data. > > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/breaking-news-eff-victory-appeals- > court-holds is a ray of hope, though... Yes it is. Now, if we can just get a law that when I have pulled the msg to my machine, and issued the delete to the server, it truly was deleted, then they would need a search warrant to my machine in order to see yesterdays emails already pulled. The move has been to make the ISP's hold those supposedly deleted messages till the statutes run out, and TBT, there probably isn't an ISP on the planet with THAT much storage, not without treating it like an unfunded mandate. Which it sure is. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Even God lends a hand to honest boldness. -- Menander ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 05:36:25 pm f...@kokkinizita.net did opine: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 05:14:56AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only > > trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for > > a few years. I have often said, and have been called the uber > > paranoid for it, that one of the conditions of his release was that > > the next generation of pgp had a back door. > > PZ was never put in jail. He was investigated for illegal export of > 'munitions', but the US government dropped the case after some years > without any charges being filed. > > Ciao, Fons, no dis-respect intended, but I was there, observing closely, sitting behind the keyboard of a full house supercharged amiga back in those years. He did do 2 or 3 years. Don't forget, this is a prime example of that old saw about history being written by the winners, so the whole thing may have been white washed to a high polish by now. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) All generalizations are false, including this one. -- Mark Twain ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On 15.12.2010 22:09, Arnold Krille wrote: > On Wednesday 15 December 2010 21:50:19 David Olofson wrote: >> On Wednesday 15 December 2010, at 19.56.04, Arnold Krille >> wrote: >> [...] >> >>> Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for >>> them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican >>> police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get >>> the data... Went through fefe's blog... >> >> ...or maybe the files were just truly random noise from an analog source? >> ;-) >> >> ...or the FBI just *said* they couldn't do it, to lull us all into a false >> sense of security. > > Lets take a rational view: Let's go back to paranoia: Theo de Raadt's mail of yesterday http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2 cu Thomas -- "From the perspective of communication analysis, government is not an instrument of law and order, but of law and disorder." (Gracchus Gruad in: Robert Shea & Robert A. Wilson, The Golden Apple) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 21:50:19 David Olofson wrote: > On Wednesday 15 December 2010, at 19.56.04, Arnold Krille > wrote: > [...] > > > Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for > > them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican > > police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get > > the data... Went through fefe's blog... > > ...or maybe the files were just truly random noise from an analog source? > ;-) > > ...or the FBI just *said* they couldn't do it, to lull us all into a false > sense of security. Lets take a rational view: Most probably that hard-disk was connected with crime. And as it was Mexico, it would most probably be drugs. If they really did manage to break the encryption, someone in the chain would have said something about "thanks to the fbi we know from that hard-disk"... Staying rational, I don't think fbi/nsa/cia have enough money to fund years of research for quantum computing, producing working results capable of cracking todays hardest encryptions and not have anyone talk. Not that it wouldn't be possible given enough money, I just don't think they would have managed to spent enough money on this. If you speak German, read the blog from udo vetter (lawblog.de) and watch his talk on the ccc-congress where he (and several people from the audience) gave every-day testimonials of encrypted hard-discs where law-enforcement didn't get any valid data from. Have fun, Arnold signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 20:40:20 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 19:56 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote: > > On Wednesday 15 December 2010 16:41:32 Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > > > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only > > > > trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for > > > > a few years. I have often said, and have been called the uber > > > > paranoid for it, that one of the conditions of his release was that > > > > the next generation of pgp had a back door. > > > > > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > > > > > :-D > > > > > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > > > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > > > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > > > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) > > > > Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for > > them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican > > police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get > > the data... Went through fefe's blog... > > > > Have fun, > > > > Arnold > > There still is a much easier way to decrypt mails. I'm not talking about > a completely encrypted hard disk. Get the non-public, private key. Is > this key saved in a file on a computer that is connected to the web, > e.g. for usage directly with your mail client? Hack the firewall and get > that key or burglarise the flat to get access to the non-public, private > key. Still you have to know the password for the key :-P signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 21:50 +0100, David Olofson wrote: > ...or the FBI just *said* they couldn't do it, to lull us all into a > false sense of security. Exactly! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday 15 December 2010, at 19.56.04, Arnold Krille wrote: [...] > Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for > them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican > police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get > the data... Went through fefe's blog... ...or maybe the files were just truly random noise from an analog source? ;-) ...or the FBI just *said* they couldn't do it, to lull us all into a false sense of security. -- //David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate .--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---. | http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com | '-' ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 19:56 +0100, Arnold Krille wrote: > On Wednesday 15 December 2010 16:41:32 Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > > > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few > > > years. I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, > > > that one of the conditions of his release was that the next generation > > > of pgp had a back door. > > > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > > > :-D > > > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) > > Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for > them. > After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican police asked > them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get the data... > Went through fefe's blog... > > Have fun, > > Arnold There still is a much easier way to decrypt mails. I'm not talking about a completely encrypted hard disk. Get the non-public, private key. Is this key saved in a file on a computer that is connected to the web, e.g. for usage directly with your mail client? Hack the firewall and get that key or burglarise the flat to get access to the non-public, private key. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 16:41:32 Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few > > years. I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, > > that one of the conditions of his release was that the next generation > > of pgp had a back door. > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > :-D > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) Some months back fbi had to admit that current encryption is to good for them. After a year of trying they returned a hard-disk (which Mexican police asked them to decrypt) admitting they couldn't do anything to get the data... Went through fefe's blog... Have fun, Arnold signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 16:41 +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few years. > > I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that one > > of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had a > > back door. > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > :-D > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) It might be that they have algorithms or autistics and savants as slaves that are able to decrypt 1,000 emails a day by prime factorization or some other way, but I guess they need to hack some more, but just 1,000 mails a day. Ma assalaama sisters and brothers of the jihad [1], Ralf [1] At least one of the NSA computers now needs to read the LAD archive. Dear NSA computer, this is just satire. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 17:18 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 16:41 +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > > > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few > > > years. > > > I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that > > > one > > > of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had > > > a > > > back door. > > > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > > > :-D > > > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) > > PS: In the late 80ies German professional soldiers working as radio > operators, who spied Russians radio, learn that it should take around 20 > years to decrypted one mail. I know one and because it's a long time > ago, he's allowed to speak about this. Nobody is allowed to speak about > the current state, but it's still said, that it should take around 20 > years. Suspect! I guess in 2020 or 2030 they are allowed to give > information about the state of today. 1988 - 20 = 1968, so how could they make a projection? I guess everybody heard about 10 to 30 years to hack an encrypted email years ago. Knowledge about this must be a fake, they're liars. Paranoia isn't adequate, but über-scepticism is suitable. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 16:41 +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: > On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few years. > > I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that one > > of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had a > > back door. > > as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! > > :-D > > i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with > open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless > you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have > solved the entire problem space years ago" :) PS: In the late 80ies German professional soldiers working as radio operators, who spied Russians radio, learn that it should take around 20 years to decrypted one mail. I know one and because it's a long time ago, he's allowed to speak about this. Nobody is allowed to speak about the current state, but it's still said, that it should take around 20 years. Suspect! I guess in 2020 or 2030 they are allowed to give information about the state of today. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On 12/15/2010 11:14 AM, gene heskett wrote: > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few years. > I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that one > of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had a > back door. as they say, paranoia doesn't mean they're not after you! :-D i think this problem is mitigated somewhat by using open protocols with open crypto implementations that have undergone public scrutiny. unless you want to believe that "the NSA has quantum computers anyway and have solved the entire problem space years ago" :) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 05:14 -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 05:01:58 am Tim E. Real did opine: > > > On December 14, 2010 10:04:10 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 02:47 +, Harry Van Haaren wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Ralf Mardorf > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > A lot of people do, but perhaps they do it for mails that > > > > anyway are in > > > > public, e.g. to correspond to mailing lists. > > > > > > > > Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: > > > > that can prove they are better? > > > > Open to suggestions :-) > > > > > > > > -Harry > > > > > > An evasive answer: For a while I used OpenPGP for emails ;). Perhaps > > > all autistics and savants able to do prime factorization are only > > > working for Google and no other provider or even intelligence > > > services :D. > > > > Ha. Good one. > > > > But really, should we all be using some form of it? > > I did for a while. I notice some folks here use it, some don't. > > KMail always says unknown (I think we have to share keys). > > Would it be better for LAD? Does it matter? > > Will it, soon, the way things are going? > > > > Big brother is the corporations. > > I used to be able to claim a prize in a bag of potato chips by walking > > in to any store and handing over a ticket. Now I must 'register' > > on-line. > > > > This technology we use is a delicate dance between convenience and > > security, but I don't like what I'm seeing transpire these days... > > > > Here, our gov created a national "do not call" list, which we could join > > and telemarketers would not be allowed to call us, if we said so. > > People flocked to the list! > > Then the gov sold the list to some marketing group. Ugh... > > > > Tim. > > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few years. > I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that one > of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had a > back door. Denials out the yang are always instantaneous, but none of them > came from Pete, so I have no choice but to conclude he is under NDA as the > price of his freedom. So I figure the lack of compatibility of modern > versions means I might as well use plain text anyway. My views aren't > secret anyway if you read my sig. Hi Gene :) *chuckle* I wrote Tim off-list, because I thought it became OT for the OT thread. This reminds me, that I need to reply to some mails off-list to you too, sorry, I've got issues with antihypertensive drugs and less time at the moment and by the way, the side effects did effect my psyche, anyway, I didn't notice to be paranoid ;D, perhaps this will change, when reading more posts for this thread. Is it proved that there is a back door for versions ex 2.6.2a? Cheers! Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:03 AM, Dan Kegel wrote: > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Harry Van Haaren > wrote: >> Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: that can >> prove they are better? > > I'm afraid every webmail provider in the world is > going to have the same basic problem: you shouldn't > be trusting other people with your data. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/breaking-news-eff-victory-appeals-court-holds is a ray of hope, though... ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 05:14:56AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust > pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few years. > I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that one > of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had a > back door. PZ was never put in jail. He was investigated for illegal export of 'munitions', but the US government dropped the case after some years without any charges being filed. Ciao, -- FA There are three of them, and Alleline. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 05:01:58 am Tim E. Real did opine: > On December 14, 2010 10:04:10 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 02:47 +, Harry Van Haaren wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Ralf Mardorf > > > > > > wrote: > > > A lot of people do, but perhaps they do it for mails that > > > anyway are in > > > public, e.g. to correspond to mailing lists. > > > > > > Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: > > > that can prove they are better? > > > Open to suggestions :-) > > > > > > -Harry > > > > An evasive answer: For a while I used OpenPGP for emails ;). Perhaps > > all autistics and savants able to do prime factorization are only > > working for Google and no other provider or even intelligence > > services :D. > > Ha. Good one. > > But really, should we all be using some form of it? > I did for a while. I notice some folks here use it, some don't. > KMail always says unknown (I think we have to share keys). > Would it be better for LAD? Does it matter? > Will it, soon, the way things are going? > > Big brother is the corporations. > I used to be able to claim a prize in a bag of potato chips by walking > in to any store and handing over a ticket. Now I must 'register' > on-line. > > This technology we use is a delicate dance between convenience and > security, but I don't like what I'm seeing transpire these days... > > Here, our gov created a national "do not call" list, which we could join > and telemarketers would not be allowed to call us, if we said so. > People flocked to the list! > Then the gov sold the list to some marketing group. Ugh... > > Tim. Ralf I suspect, if he were to use pgp, would be like me, and only trust pgp-2.6.2a, the last one before they put Zimmerman in jail for a few years. I have often said, and have been called the uber paranoid for it, that one of the conditions of his release was that the next generation of pgp had a back door. Denials out the yang are always instantaneous, but none of them came from Pete, so I have no choice but to conclude he is under NDA as the price of his freedom. So I figure the lack of compatibility of modern versions means I might as well use plain text anyway. My views aren't secret anyway if you read my sig. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Knowledge without common sense is folly. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
rosea.grammostola wrote: On 12/14/2010 09:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: Stallman hitting the mainstream news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard -stallman-warning He's right. +1 I agree. I also think he is addressing the 'consumer' environment. As soon as Chrome OS works on netbooks people in stores will be convinced that it is the latest 'cool thing' to buy, unaware of what exactly 'cloud' means. I also agree that 'cloud computing' is much of a buzz word, it's not so different from the once-upon-a-time systems with client-server model no? Once you store your data on the server, you have to trust the server owner that the data is secure (in all meanings) That said as an audio user having an actual machine I can control and with enough hardware 'capabilities' is still a need I personally have and will have for many years. Lorenzo. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
Excerpts from Harry Van Haaren's message of 2010-12-15 03:47:26 +0100: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > > > A lot of people do, but perhaps they do it for mails that anyway are in > > public, e.g. to correspond to mailing lists. > > > > Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: that can > prove they are better? > Open to suggestions :-) > > -Harry I like lavabit, I trust them more than google, but I can't prove they are better and they aren't better in every respect. I need a gmail account now (because it's required for me to have access to some Google spreadsheet), but now wants my phone number or it won't let me create an account. Needless to say that I'm neither happy that I'm required to use google nor that I'm required to give them my phone number. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On December 14, 2010 10:04:10 pm Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 02:47 +, Harry Van Haaren wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Ralf Mardorf > > wrote: > > A lot of people do, but perhaps they do it for mails that > > anyway are in > > public, e.g. to correspond to mailing lists. > > > > Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: > > that can prove they are better? > > Open to suggestions :-) > > > > -Harry > > An evasive answer: For a while I used OpenPGP for emails ;). Perhaps all > autistics and savants able to do prime factorization are only working > for Google and no other provider or even intelligence services :D. > Ha. Good one. But really, should we all be using some form of it? I did for a while. I notice some folks here use it, some don't. KMail always says unknown (I think we have to share keys). Would it be better for LAD? Does it matter? Will it, soon, the way things are going? Big brother is the corporations. I used to be able to claim a prize in a bag of potato chips by walking in to any store and handing over a ticket. Now I must 'register' on-line. This technology we use is a delicate dance between convenience and security, but I don't like what I'm seeing transpire these days... Here, our gov created a national "do not call" list, which we could join and telemarketers would not be allowed to call us, if we said so. People flocked to the list! Then the gov sold the list to some marketing group. Ugh... Tim. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 02:47 +, Harry Van Haaren wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > A lot of people do, but perhaps they do it for mails that > anyway are in > public, e.g. to correspond to mailing lists. > > Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: > that can prove they are better? > Open to suggestions :-) > > -Harry An evasive answer: For a while I used OpenPGP for emails ;). Perhaps all autistics and savants able to do prime factorization are only working for Google and no other provider or even intelligence services :D. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Harry Van Haaren wrote: > Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: that can > prove they are better? I'm afraid every webmail provider in the world is going to have the same basic problem: you shouldn't be trusting other people with your data. Me, I use gmail, I love it. I'm just hoping it'll be a long time before Cisco buys Google. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > A lot of people do, but perhaps they do it for mails that anyway are in > public, e.g. to correspond to mailing lists. > Anybody know of a public email provider that is better? Or more so: that can prove they are better? Open to suggestions :-) -Harry ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 15:32 -0500, Paul Davis wrote: > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: > > > >> Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard > >> -stallman-warning > >> > > He's right. > > i agree, but how many of us use gmail? A lot of people do, but perhaps they do it for mails that anyway are in public, e.g. to correspond to mailing lists. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:33:24 +0100 "rosea.grammostola" wrote: > On 12/14/2010 09:32 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: > >> On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: > >> > >>> Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard > >>> -stallman-warning > >>> > >> He's right. > > i agree, but how many of us use gmail? > Only with nickname and non personal info ;) Actually, he is usually right with his warnings, and this is of course no exception. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:57:42 pm Paul Davis did opine: > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: > >> Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richa > >> rd -stallman-warning > > > > He's right. > > i agree, but how many of us use gmail? Frantically waving hand here, but I am slowly weaning myself from that teat. Its more damned trouble than its worth, and you can quote me on that. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) A great nation is any mob of people which produces at least one honest man a century. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On 12/14/2010 09:32 PM, Paul Davis wrote: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: Stallman hitting the mainstream news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard -stallman-warning He's right. i agree, but how many of us use gmail? Only with nickname and non personal info ;) ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: > On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: > >> Stallman hitting the mainstream news: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard >> -stallman-warning >> > He's right. i agree, but how many of us use gmail? ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On 12/14/2010 09:28 PM, gene heskett wrote: On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: Stallman hitting the mainstream news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard -stallman-warning He's right. +1 ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tuesday, December 14, 2010 03:27:37 pm Victor Lazzarini did opine: > Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard > -stallman-warning > He's right. -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) It's NO USE ... I've gone to "CLUB MED"!! ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 16:42 +0300, Louigi Verona wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 13:14 +, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > > Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard-stallman-warning > > > > Victor > > > Hi Victor :) > > a good OT post, thank you and full ACK with Stallman here. I'm > not all > the time conform with his statements ;). > > Btw. there e.g. is 'Alice Disk & Alice SmartDisk', 5 GB for > free to > 'safeguard' your private data ;), if you pay, the user space > is > unlimited. > > I need to ask total strangers, if they would like to safeguard > my > wages ;). Even allegedly reputable PayPal will fuck us and > hold back > donations without any lawsuit, just because big brother is > pissed. > > Anyway, this is for stupid people who are 'careless' by hook > or by crook > and who don't care for trackers and thingies like this too, > instead they > watch bollocks-TV's lurid reports, e.g. about the dangerous > Internet, > followed by experts that teach them stupid stuff to protect > their > current hyped Windows. > > Gag me with a spoon! > > Cheers! > > Ralf > > > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev > > > > Yeah, Ralf, although an interesting thought is that Stallman by > speaking about it acknowledges that he considers freedom should be for > everyone, even if they do not understand it. So although I understand > the "stupid people" thing, from an emotional standpoint, I would still > love to find a solution that makes even "stupid people" free ;) I'm working for childcare, but as an audio and video engineer, as I did in the past. This could be the beginning to free people by getting knowledge, unfortunately just by little and little. :) One of the social pedagogues did switch from an Windows app to TuxPaint, but for the Windows version, when I recommended Tuxpaint. Btw. I very often guess that I need to use the Google search engine, because Scroogle, Ixquick and similar don't give the needed hits :(. Of cause there are Ghostery and CustomizedGoogle, but they need Firefox. ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 13:14 +, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > > Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard-stallman-warning > > > > Victor > > Hi Victor :) > > a good OT post, thank you and full ACK with Stallman here. I'm not all > the time conform with his statements ;). > > Btw. there e.g. is 'Alice Disk & Alice SmartDisk', 5 GB for free to > 'safeguard' your private data ;), if you pay, the user space is > unlimited. > > I need to ask total strangers, if they would like to safeguard my > wages ;). Even allegedly reputable PayPal will fuck us and hold back > donations without any lawsuit, just because big brother is pissed. > > Anyway, this is for stupid people who are 'careless' by hook or by crook > and who don't care for trackers and thingies like this too, instead they > watch bollocks-TV's lurid reports, e.g. about the dangerous Internet, > followed by experts that teach them stupid stuff to protect their > current hyped Windows. > > Gag me with a spoon! > > Cheers! > > Ralf > > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev > Yeah, Ralf, although an interesting thought is that Stallman by speaking about it acknowledges that he considers freedom should be for everyone, even if they do not understand it. So although I understand the "stupid people" thing, from an emotional standpoint, I would still love to find a solution that makes even "stupid people" free ;) -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 13:14 +, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard-stallman-warning > > Victor Hi Victor :) a good OT post, thank you and full ACK with Stallman here. I'm not all the time conform with his statements ;). Btw. there e.g. is 'Alice Disk & Alice SmartDisk', 5 GB for free to 'safeguard' your private data ;), if you pay, the user space is unlimited. I need to ask total strangers, if they would like to safeguard my wages ;). Even allegedly reputable PayPal will fuck us and hold back donations without any lawsuit, just because big brother is pissed. Anyway, this is for stupid people who are 'careless' by hook or by crook and who don't care for trackers and thingies like this too, instead they watch bollocks-TV's lurid reports, e.g. about the dangerous Internet, followed by experts that teach them stupid stuff to protect their current hyped Windows. Gag me with a spoon! Cheers! Ralf ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Re: [LAD] [OT] Richard Stallman warns against ChromeOS
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Stallman hitting the mainstream news: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard-stallman-warning > > Victor > ___ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev > He raises important topics with which I personally agree, but I am afraid many people would not understand it and see it as some "philosophical whining". At the same time decentralized social network like Diaspora, a slow, but steady path to personal servers is probably something that can balance out the "cloud" craze. -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ ___ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
