Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 07:46 -0500, Dave Phillips wrote: [...] The commercial music software market is small, small enough for the manufacturers to possibly perceive Linux audio software as a most unwelcome alternative. And given that those commercial entities fund the ad revenue of the major music mags, I'm sure they won't especially like to see articles touting Ardour and Rosegarden running beside the full-page glossies for Logic et al. Yeh, yeh, I'm riding my same old hobby horse. We are, as we have been always, quite on our own in this little pocket universe of ours. Wouldn't have it any other way :) -DR-
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Hiho, On Wednesday 28 March 2007 00:01, Frank Barknecht wrote: Robin Gareus hat gesagt: // Robin Gareus wrote: historically Karlsruhe Thu/Fri vs. Sat/Sun - this year was different: Berlin weekdays vs. Berlin weekend - with a smaller audience on the last two days ;-) what is the location in Cologne like? - will there be Students lingering during week but not the weekend next year? The Academy of Media Arts (KHM) in Cologne, where the next conference is planned to be, is much smaller than the TU Berlin. Additionally the KHM is in a different part of town from the main Cologne University. As the conference must happen during the semester break, there might even be more LAC people at the KHM than students. So while Cologne won't be as centered around one place as in Karlsruhe, it will still be a bit cozier than Berlin and won't have that many stairs to climb or large avenues to cross. Actually, in Berlin it was also the semester break, so I wonder how many of the casual visitors were actually students, just happening to pass by on the way to another lecture. Perhaps it was more a case of there being less competition for other events on week days in Berlin. sincerely, Marije
[linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Hello, so far I cant find reports on LAC 2007 on Blogs or newspages, neither on Linux related nor electronic music ones. Tonight I want blog myself some (subjective) impression and would like to gather some nice photos, I have only done some crappy images with my mobile. Then I would start to bother other blogs to write about it, normally the interest is there. Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com-
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Malte Steiner wrote: so far I cant find reports on LAC 2007 on Blogs or newspages, neither on Linux related nor electronic music ones. Nope, they're generally not interested. The last time I notified Slashdot about the conference they put it in their Linux section and it got little response (except from the typical /. crowd of naysayers. There was no mention of it at all this year. LJ didn't think it worthy enough to fund a reporter's trip. AFAIK there were no official reps from any major music or music tech magazines. The commercial music software market is small, small enough for the manufacturers to possibly perceive Linux audio software as a most unwelcome alternative. And given that those commercial entities fund the ad revenue of the major music mags, I'm sure they won't especially like to see articles touting Ardour and Rosegarden running beside the full-page glossies for Logic et al. Yeh, yeh, I'm riding my same old hobby horse. We are, as we have been always, quite on our own in this little pocket universe of ours. I imagine Daniel James will get a report into Linux User Developer. I hope so, since he's the editor of the mag. ;) Maybe Frank B will get something into c't ? I plan to go through some of the audio fiels from the presentations, I'd like to provide some kind of report on the conference in my blog. Best, dp
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Lars Luthman wrote: I agree that not many people that aren't directly involved with Linux audio software care about it, but the Slashdot crowd is hardly representative for most Linux and free software users. I hope. It's not the crowd that's at issue, it's the fact that a great many /. readers who might be interested never find out about the conference (or much else about Linux audio achievements). Regardless how I feel about it, Slashdot is a widely read site. I don't think anyone announced it on Digg either. Was anything up on YouTube ? Wasn't this years LAC sponsored by Ableton though? They are listed as one of the partners. AFAIK they've shown no public interest in Linux, nor have they announced any intention to port their products to Linux. Perhaps they made some statement at the conference ? Anyone know exactly what their interest in Linux amounts to ? Best, dp
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
I agree that not many people that aren't directly involved with Linux audio software care about it, but the Slashdot crowd is hardly representative for most Linux and free software users. I hope. There are some other blogs which should be notified, e.g. createdigitalmusic.com http://www.pro-linux.de/ sequencer.de the last one also have a small printed German synthesizer magazine and recently I was asked to write about OpenSource stuff. In the next issue there will be an article about AMS and now I am about to write an article about csound. I made sequencer and create to announce the conference and on create there was at least mentionend the trinity during LAC: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/03/23/linux-powered-mobile-trinity-daw-in-the-wild/ I dont know what is about Computer Music Journal, I have to renew my subscription as soon as I get some money. Wasn't this years LAC sponsored by Ableton though? Yes it was, which is a bit strange. Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com-
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Jens M Andreasen wrote: For next year, how about sending a press-release to: http://www.harmony-central.com/news_submissions.html They appear to me as being fairly Linux friendly? Not that I can tell (and I do like Harmony Central, I recommend it to my students). They have an outdated page of UNIX (sic) software. They have no forum dedicated to Linux (not that I think they ought to; but they don't). But I agree, press releases should go out to H-C and all the guns in the industry. Best, dp
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
They are listed as one of the partners. AFAIK they've shown no public interest in Linux, nor have they announced any intention to port their products to Linux. Perhaps they made some statement at the conference ? Anyone know exactly what their interest in Linux amounts to ? Nothing particular, as I understood they are connected to the TU Berlin, that was the reason. Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com-
RE: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
We are, as we have been always, quite on our own in this little pocket universe of ours. I think this issue is amplified by the fact that the conference also targets by and large the same crowd. I am also not convinced that we would not be able to find some software allies provided we begin catering to more diverse audience... Linuxaudio.org consortium already has several high-profile pro audio members. Stay tuned for more updates in the coming weeks. This summer may introduce hopefully some cool additions to the Linuxaudio.org. Ico
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Dave Phillips wrote: Lars Luthman wrote: Wasn't this years LAC sponsored by Ableton though? They are listed as one of the partners. AFAIK they've shown no public interest in Linux, nor have they announced any intention to port their products to Linux. Perhaps they made some statement at the conference ? Anyone know exactly what their interest in Linux amounts to ? They didn't express anything special during the conference. One of their founders (at least I think he is) was there, and apparently he's an old student of TU-Berlin, and TU-Berlin just asked. During the panel discussion he basically said that the sell shrinkwrapped boxes model works pretty fine for them and that he doesn't see any reasons for them to change. And I think he also said that he didn't see any opportunities for open source in that field. Now that I write it down like this, I'm even more puzzled as to why they actually sponsored. Maybe my mental recorder is somehow broken and I don't remember things correctly. Pieter
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Pieter Palmers wrote: Dave Phillips wrote: Lars Luthman wrote: Wasn't this years LAC sponsored by Ableton though? They are listed as one of the partners. AFAIK they've shown no public interest in Linux, nor have they announced any intention to port their products to Linux. Perhaps they made some statement at the conference ? Anyone know exactly what their interest in Linux amounts to ? They didn't express anything special during the conference. One of their founders (at least I think he is) was there, and apparently he's an old student of TU-Berlin, and TU-Berlin just asked. Hi Pieter, yes, since one of the founders was a student Ableton helped out. It was not a statement towards Linux or open source. Best, Simon
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Hallo, Pieter Palmers hat gesagt: // Pieter Palmers wrote: They didn't express anything special during the conference. One of their founders (at least I think he is) was there, and apparently he's an old student of TU-Berlin, and TU-Berlin just asked. During the panel discussion he basically said that the sell shrinkwrapped boxes model works pretty fine for them and that he doesn't see any reasons for them to change. And I think he also said that he didn't see any opportunities for open source in that field. Now that I write it down like this, I'm even more puzzled as to why they actually sponsored. Maybe my mental recorder is somehow broken and I don't remember things correctly. As I remember what Ableton-Founder Gerhard Behles said was that he likes running a successful business with Ableton Live as a shrinkwrapped product, but that trying to sell shrinkwrapped open source Linux sound software at least currently wouldn't work. And that is something that we all basically know: Not many people would buy a shrink wrapped Ardour when it's available as a free download. (Many people also don't buy shrinkwrapped Ableton Live because it's available illegally as a free download, but enough people still do.) Regarding the sponsoring: I think, it was a nice move by Ableton to support the LAC, even though we're not the target audience for Live and potential competitors. But still the demo-CDs with Live on it were gone quite fast. Maybe one day there will be a Linux version of Live, but it's not something I particularily look forward to, as I wouldn't use it anyways unless it gets opensource'd. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 04:17:16PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Maybe one day there will be a Linux version of Live, but it's not something I particularily look forward to, as I wouldn't use it anyways unless it gets opensource'd. There are probably many of us thinking the same way. But the sad fact is that if all Linux users do this, then Linux will forever be an 'amateur' platform. From the PoV of a professional audio user (i.e. one who makes his/her living by providing services in that area), if a product does the job and has the right price, there is no good reason for not using it. -- FA Follie! Follie! Delirio vano è questo !
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Hiho, On Tuesday 27 March 2007 12:25, Malte Steiner wrote: so far I cant find reports on LAC 2007 on Blogs or newspages, neither on Linux related nor electronic music ones. For what it's worth: the TU PR did actually quite a good job at promoting the conference. I did not get a complete overview of where the conference was mentioned, but I know that at least at www.heise.de there was an elaborate discussion on the conference. Radio: Michael Iber from the SWR made a report (as usual). Furthermore, we had interviews from two Berlin radio stations: Deutschland Radio Berlin and Motor FM (100.6 FM). And we have of course our own CampusRadio interviews. The Computer Music Journal is interested in an article about the conference, we just need to write it (anyone who would like to help with this and was at the conference, please contact me). Sincerely, Marije
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
On 27 Mar 2007, at 16:01, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 04:17:16PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Maybe one day there will be a Linux version of Live, but it's not something I particularily look forward to, as I wouldn't use it anyways unless it gets opensource'd. There are probably many of us thinking the same way. But the sad fact is that if all Linux users do this, then Linux will forever be an 'amateur' platform. From the PoV of a professional audio user (i.e. one who makes his/her living by providing services in that area), if a product does the job and has the right price, there is no good reason for not using it. I mostly agree, but in some ways the acceptable quality of the linux audio offerings makes proprietary software less necessary. OTOH, for processing photos I mainly use proprietary software (Lightroom, Bibble [on Linux] and Capture NX), as the free software options are simply not up to the job. For comparison the only proprietary music software I use is to control some dedicated synth hardware. Obviously I'd prefer to use 100% free software, but I'm more pragmatic than ideological. - Steve
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 04:17:16PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Maybe one day there will be a Linux version of Live, but it's not something I particularily look forward to, as I wouldn't use it anyways unless it gets opensource'd. There are probably many of us thinking the same way. But the sad fact is that if all Linux users do this, then Linux will forever be an 'amateur' platform. From the PoV of a professional audio user (i.e. one who makes his/her living by providing services in that area), if a product does the job and has the right price, there is no good reason for not using it. I know it's not really what you mean, but it seems to me that duplicating the current methodologies and replacing every professional costly application with an exact free software counterpart that happens to run under linux is a bit pointless? What is the the motivation? Just to force businesses out of business? Surely a better approach is to make free software that does things costly software simply can't do - or at least try out new approaches that are too risky for a company to attempt. I know I'm a minority, but the thing that makes linux for me is that it's full of eccentric, strange and individual applications - yes sometimes they don't work, it's frustrating to an alarming degree on occasion, but it's so much more _interesting_ to make music with than than a handful of polished products aimed at potential lifestyle marketplaces. cheers, dave
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 05:20:01PM +0100, Dave Griffiths wrote: I know it's not really what you mean, but it seems to me that duplicating the current methodologies and replacing every professional costly application with an exact free software counterpart that happens to run under linux is a bit pointless? What is the the motivation? Just to force businesses out of business? Yeah, well I would prefer the approach of making software that fulfils specific needs or wants as good as possible. That can often mean going in similar directions as propietary apps, but never just blind cloning :) -- Thorsten Wilms Thorwil's Creature Illustrations: http://www.printfection.com/thorwil
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Hallo, Fons Adriaensen hat gesagt: // Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 04:17:16PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Maybe one day there will be a Linux version of Live, but it's not something I particularily look forward to, as I wouldn't use it anyways unless it gets opensource'd. There are probably many of us thinking the same way. But the sad fact is that if all Linux users do this, then Linux will forever be an 'amateur' platform. Linux didn't stay an amateuer platform in other areas, why should free software not be professionally used in the audio world as well? An interesting example would be Pd, which is attracting quite a number of former Max users. Pd may not look professional, but it *is* used by professionals. Ardour is another example, though it targets an audience that may be less willing to try something new and thus has a harder time. I have nothing against people using proprietary software, especially in areas where there are no alternatives - although the hundreds of soundsalike (sorry, Michael) Live users can get on my nerves a bit. But it will be hard to convince *me* of why I should pay more for a software when I get less in return, that is: no source code and no copies allowed. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Hallo, nescivi hat gesagt: // nescivi wrote: On Tuesday 27 March 2007 12:25, Malte Steiner wrote: so far I cant find reports on LAC 2007 on Blogs or newspages, neither on Linux related nor electronic music ones. For what it's worth: the TU PR did actually quite a good job at promoting the conference. I did not get a complete overview of where the conference was mentioned, but I know that at least at www.heise.de there was an elaborate discussion on the conference. Radio: Michael Iber from the SWR made a report (as usual). Furthermore, we had interviews from two Berlin radio stations: Deutschland Radio Berlin and Motor FM (100.6 FM). The text of the feature on Deutschlandradio Berlin is here: http://www.dradio.de/dkultur/sendungen/ewelten/607518/ (in German) I'll see if I can get an mp3 of that tomorrow. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: We are, as we have been always, quite on our own in this little pocket universe of ours. I think this issue is amplified by the fact that the conference also targets by and large the same crowd. what's the difference between Linux-Audio-Developer meeting and Linux-Audio-Conference? historically Karlsruhe Thu/Fri vs. Sat/Sun - this year was different: Berlin weekdays vs. Berlin weekend - with a smaller audience on the last two days ;-) what is the location in Cologne like? - will there be Students lingering during week but not the weekend next year? I suggest a single (no parallel) devel-track next year - maybe some workshops can overlap or be in parallel with the last devel-talk of the day, which can be a demo.. all other tracks should be for general audience: musicians, home-users or professionals. Leaving the devs to attend, chat, hack, live-code or redo their presentation in a different style.. as for promoting Linux-Audio, what about setting up a Music Made with Linux webradio station? - what happened to all the audio-transmittals of LAC? is there an archive? robin
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Hallo, Robin Gareus hat gesagt: // Robin Gareus wrote: historically Karlsruhe Thu/Fri vs. Sat/Sun - this year was different: Berlin weekdays vs. Berlin weekend - with a smaller audience on the last two days ;-) what is the location in Cologne like? - will there be Students lingering during week but not the weekend next year? The Academy of Media Arts (KHM) in Cologne, where the next conference is planned to be, is much smaller than the TU Berlin. Additionally the KHM is in a different part of town from the main Cologne University. As the conference must happen during the semester break, there might even be more LAC people at the KHM than students. So while Cologne won't be as centered around one place as in Karlsruhe, it will still be a bit cozier than Berlin and won't have that many stairs to climb or large avenues to cross. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
On 3/28/07, Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Robin Gareus hat gesagt: // Robin Gareus wrote: historically Karlsruhe Thu/Fri vs. Sat/Sun - this year was different: Berlin weekdays vs. Berlin weekend - with a smaller audience on the last two days ;-) what is the location in Cologne like? - will there be Students lingering during week but not the weekend next year? The Academy of Media Arts (KHM) in Cologne, where the next conference is planned to be, is much smaller than the TU Berlin. Additionally the KHM is in a different part of town from the main Cologne University. As the conference must happen during the semester break, there might even be more LAC people at the KHM than students. So while Cologne won't be as centered around one place as in Karlsruhe, it will still be a bit cozier than Berlin and won't have that many stairs to climb or large avenues to cross. And Köln is cool as far as I can remember from an old school trip ;-) Looking forward to that ! -- __ Marc-Olivier Barre, Markinoko.
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 10:27:11PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Linux didn't stay an amateuer platform in other areas, why should free software not be professionally used in the audio world as well? There is no good reason why free software shouldn't be used, but not everything required in the pro world is available as free software. That in itself is not the problem, pro users will be prepared to pay for what they need. The real problem is that some things are not available for Linux _at all_. Try to find an MLP encoder that runs on Linux. Required for DVD-A, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray production. It won't be open source any time soon. If there is no market for closed source software on Linux, it will simply never exist on that platform. If Linux users refuse to use non-free software, there is no market. Much as I would prefer to see FLAC used on these media, the simple fact is that it isn't. -- FA Follie! Follie! Delirio vano è questo !
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Steve Harris wrote: On 27 Mar 2007, at 16:01, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 04:17:16PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Maybe one day there will be a Linux version of Live, but it's not something I particularily look forward to, as I wouldn't use it anyways unless it gets opensource'd. There are probably many of us thinking the same way. But the sad fact is that if all Linux users do this, then Linux will forever be an 'amateur' platform. From the PoV of a professional audio user (i.e. one who makes his/her living by providing services in that area), if a product does the job and has the right price, there is no good reason for not using it. I mostly agree, but in some ways the acceptable quality of the linux audio offerings makes proprietary software less necessary. OTOH, for processing photos I mainly use proprietary software (Lightroom, Bibble [on Linux] and Capture NX), as the free software options are simply not up to the job. For comparison the only proprietary music software I use is to control some dedicated synth hardware. The potential of using Linux to compete with proprietary music software is enormous. Perhaps, the music technologies are still young that's why we have not yet seen impact of Linux music software in the professional music world. I agree that there is a very limited audience of those who use Linux for their music creation needs. We will need dedicated programmers to focus on particular fields in order to create software that will be even better than non open-source software. I will have to admit that I resorted to start programming music applications in Linux because of frustration from the win32 API and the limitation of the windows sound API. It took me some months to be able to come up with my own implementation of the MIDI protocol and to be able to play with ALSA. However, those months and the years of preparation before that, made me realize that a combination of music knowledge and linux programming knowledge can result in the creation of good music software. Passionate musicians who are at the same time passionate and hard-core Linux programmers are probably few, but given a little bit more time, I see Linux as a music platform that will directly compete with the world's most known audio and music brands. Just my 2 cents worth. Best Regards, Carlo -- Carlo Florendo Softare Engineer/Network Co-Administrator Astra Philippines Inc. UP-Ayala Technopark, Diliman 1101, Quezon City Philippines http://www.astra.ph -- The Astra Group of Companies 5-3-11 Sekido, Tama City Tokyo 206-0011, Japan http://www.astra.co.jp
Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Thorsten Wilms wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 05:20:01PM +0100, Dave Griffiths wrote: I know it's not really what you mean, but it seems to me that duplicating the current methodologies and replacing every professional costly application with an exact free software counterpart that happens to run under linux is a bit pointless? What is the the motivation? Just to force businesses out of business? Yeah, well I would prefer the approach of making software that fulfils specific needs or wants as good as possible. That can often mean going in similar directions as propietary apps, but never just blind cloning :) Exactly. Programmer-musicians must focus on very particular niches, writing software that would not be a one-stop-do-all kind of thing, but to address a particular need of a particular audience. One example is to come up with a software that is tailored for professional keyboardists who could throw in a live concert using keyboards and computers, and not just for the general type of musical arranger that just uses the keyboard to compose songs. Best Regards, Carlo -- Carlo Florendo Softare Engineer/Network Co-Administrator Astra Philippines Inc. UP-Ayala Technopark, Diliman 1101, Quezon City Philippines http://www.astra.ph -- The Astra Group of Companies 5-3-11 Sekido, Tama City Tokyo 206-0011, Japan http://www.astra.co.jp
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-dev] promoting LAC 2007
Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Robin Gareus hat gesagt: // Robin Gareus wrote: historically Karlsruhe Thu/Fri vs. Sat/Sun - this year was different: Berlin weekdays vs. Berlin weekend - with a smaller audience on the last two days ;-) what is the location in Cologne like? - will there be Students lingering during week but not the weekend next year? The Academy of Media Arts (KHM) in Cologne, where the next conference is planned to be, is much smaller than the TU Berlin. Additionally the KHM is in a different part of town from the main Cologne University. As the conference must happen during the semester break, there might even be more LAC people at the KHM than students. So while Cologne won't be as centered around one place as in Karlsruhe, it will still be a bit cozier than Berlin and won't have that many stairs to climb or large avenues to cross. Ciao I've got fond memories of Cologne. It would be good to have LAC 2008 there :) Best Regards, Carlo -- Carlo Florendo Softare Engineer/Network Co-Administrator Astra Philippines Inc. UP-Ayala Technopark, Diliman 1101, Quezon City Philippines http://www.astra.ph -- The Astra Group of Companies 5-3-11 Sekido, Tama City Tokyo 206-0011, Japan http://www.astra.co.jp
