Re: USB printer problem
On Friday 27 December 2002 02:27, Ilya Konstantinov wrote: > > Is the 'printer.o' module (= USB Printer module) loaded when this > problem happens? yes [root@shlomo1 solomon]# insmod printer Using /lib/modules/2.4.19-16mdk/kernel/drivers/usb/printer.o.gz insmod: a module named printer already exists BTW, if I try to unload it (rmmod), I get: [root@shlomo1 solomon]# rmmod printer printer: Device or resource busy > What devices do you have in /dev/usb/ ? [root@shlomo1 usb]# ls -la total 0 drwxr-xr-x1 root root0 Jan 1 1970 ./ drwxr-xr-x1 root root0 Jan 1 1970 ../ crw-rw1 lp sys 180, 0 Jan 1 1970 lp0 crw---1 solomon root 180, 48 Jan 1 1970 scanner0 > Do you see the printer device in KDE's USB info page? yes, and it's properly identified as an Epson 60. Also, if I pull the USB plug the printer disappears and re-appears when I plug it in again. CUPS WWW admin tool and the KDE printer tool both allow me to start or stop the printer or even to send a test page. But nothing gets printed. The only indications I have that there's a problem are the error messages I sent in my previous post. BTW - the KDE printing manager also gives me the same error message (Unable to open USB port device file "/dev/usb/lp0": No such device). Sometimes, instead of that, I get the device busy message. I'm becoming more convinced that this is a USB problem, rather than a printer problem. Do you aggree? I hope that someone can finally help me with this. It's the only thing that really messes up MDK 9.0 for me. -- Shlomo Solomon http://come.to/shlomo.solomon Sent by KMail (KDE 3.0.3) on LINUX Mandrake 9.0 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 12:54:12AM +0200, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: > Howdy, everyone, > > Gilad has put together a preliminary website for Hamakor, which is now > available at http://www.hamakor.org.il. The website has a short FAQ, > and the amuta's takanon. > > Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not > officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions > ro comments, let us know what you think! > > Thanks, > Muli. > -- > Muli Ben-Yehuda > > "The speed of light really is too slow nowdays." -- Alan Cox > Is it legitimate and polite to ask some more details about the people that were mentioned in the FAQ and that I haven't heard their names before? 1. Doron Ofek was mentioned the day before yesterday to be affiliated with www.penguin.org.il. 2. Katriel Traum is from www.whatsup.org.il and works on linbrew, doesn't he? 3. Doron Carmely Shrim is a new name for me. 4. And the same with Tom Finer. Doesn't an amuta needs a ROE HESHBON? I didn't saw any. What about promoting open standards? Shouldn't that be explicitly mentioned? -- Shaul Karl, [EMAIL PROTECTED] e t = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: kde 3.1 RC5 menus
On Friday 27 December 2002 01:59, Ilya Konstantinov wrote: > On Wed, Dec 25, 2002 at 01:00:52AM +0200, Amir Tal wrote: > > On Tuesday 24 December 2002 22:32, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote: > > > On Tuesday 24 December 2002 22:15, Amir Tal wrote: > > > > i've upgraded to RC5 a few days ago, and i noticed that in some of > > > > kde's applications there's a big mess in the menu's. > > > > some of the menu's in Kmail are titled "no text!", and in konqueror, > > > > some menu's are duplicated. also, there are some duplicated toolbar > > > > buttons. > > > > > > > > does this have anything to do with the fact that the old qt packages > > > > were upgraded (current qt is 3.1.0), and if not, what am i missing ? > > > > i know for a fact that RC5 doesn't suppose to have those problems. > > > > > > > > tal. > > > > > > Nope, my guess would be the packaging system screwed up, specifying a > > > wrong base name for KDE. > > > > this will be weird, since i know of at least 2 people that are using the > > same system as me (debian sid) and installed from the same source (using > > apt-get). so unless this is a system-specific bug, i have no idea what > > can be that cause for that... > > I had similar problems between various KDE upgrades. I never found out > the reason for this problem and usually the solution was to purge my > KDE installation completely (apt-get --purge remove ...), then > double-check /etc, /usr/share and other dirs to make sure there are no > KDE leftovers, and if there are, delete them. Then, apt-get install kde > again. > > I know what I'm describing is "voodoo" and not a real solution, but > that's the best I can offer :) if this is happening in previous (stable) versions of KDE as well, then we must be doing something wrong here. i thought that this is an RC issue, and the fact that i could not find anything about that in google and kde.org cant be a good sign. did anyone else experience this, and came up with a reasonable solution ? tal. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USB printer problem
On Tue, Dec 24, 2002 at 07:09:49PM +0200, shlomo solomon wrote: > MDK 9.0 did a perfect job of detecting and installing my printer. But after a > couple of days, the printer stopped working. The program I was printing from > didn't give any indication that the printing was not successful. After trying > to reinstall the printer and not succeeding, I went to the **extreme** of > re-installing MDK. The installation only took a few minutes, since no > packages had to be re-installed. And the printer started working again. But > again, this lasted about 2 days and it stopped working again. > > I decided to try harder to find the reason and here's what I found using the > CUPS WWW tool: > > Description: EPSON Stylus COLOR 670 > Location: shlomo1 > Printer State: processing, accepting jobs. > "Unable to open USB port device file "/dev/usb/lp0": No such device" Is the 'printer.o' module (= USB Printer module) loaded when this problem happens? What devices do you have in /dev/usb/ ? Do you see the printer device in KDE's USB info page? = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best open source peer-to-peer network?
On Tue, Dec 24, 2002 at 10:00:42AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is there some marked leader among the open source peer-to-peer > networks? LimeWire looks like it. > The scale is in terms of reliability of the network, how it copes > with firewalls, how can someone authenticate the content of the files > etc. - Firewalls: supports downloading from nodes which are behind NAT and can only initiate connections themselves. - File contents authentication: When possible (depends on the peer's client), files would need to match by a hash value (instead of filename) to be considered "same". LimeWire also stores the hash values of incomplete files on disk so that their download could be safely resumed. - Reliability: Finding initial nodes to talk to is fast. Finding a file isn't guaranteed -- it depends on what nodes you're connected to, ie. you will only see a section of the network at a time. > Also it has to be able to download file PARTS from multiple sources and > combine them into one file Latest LimeWire does that. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: SSH over HTTP
On Sun, Dec 22, 2002 at 11:39:36PM +0200, Oleg Kobets wrote: > I am behind a corporate firewall and need SSH. The firewall is MicroShit ISA > server (AKA Microsoft Proxy 2.0) and the only access to the internet is via > the above mentioned proxy. > I must have SSH access to some other hosts out there and asking the admins > is out of the question. If the proxy allows access to SSL sites, then it must allow the CONNECT method, which gives you a clean "tunnel" to any site in a binary protocol (for the proxy, the SSL connection is binary nonsense just like your SSH connection). There might be a problem if the proxy is configured to allow CONNECT tunnels only to port 443 on the remote machine. Then you might have to add Port 443 to your sshd.conf. PuTTY (an excellent and free SSH client for Windows; Google for it) in the most recent version allows you to connect thru an HTTP proxy. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: kde 3.1 RC5 menus
On Wed, Dec 25, 2002 at 01:00:52AM +0200, Amir Tal wrote: > On Tuesday 24 December 2002 22:32, Michael Stolovitzsky wrote: > > On Tuesday 24 December 2002 22:15, Amir Tal wrote: > > > i've upgraded to RC5 a few days ago, and i noticed that in some of kde's > > > applications there's a big mess in the menu's. > > > some of the menu's in Kmail are titled "no text!", and in konqueror, some > > > menu's are duplicated. also, there are some duplicated toolbar buttons. > > > > > > does this have anything to do with the fact that the old qt packages were > > > upgraded (current qt is 3.1.0), and if not, what am i missing ? > > > i know for a fact that RC5 doesn't suppose to have those problems. > > > > > > tal. > > > > Nope, my guess would be the packaging system screwed up, specifying a wrong > > base name for KDE. > > this will be weird, since i know of at least 2 people that are using the same > system as me (debian sid) and installed from the same source (using apt-get). > so unless this is a system-specific bug, i have no idea what can be that cause > for that... I had similar problems between various KDE upgrades. I never found out the reason for this problem and usually the solution was to purge my KDE installation completely (apt-get --purge remove ...), then double-check /etc, /usr/share and other dirs to make sure there are no KDE leftovers, and if there are, delete them. Then, apt-get install kde again. I know what I'm describing is "voodoo" and not a real solution, but that's the best I can offer :) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bank HaPoalim and Mozilla
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 01:32:44AM +0200, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: > Because it's not NS support and IE support - it's Standarts Complaince. > No one need to support NS - they need to support IETF standarts. If NS > or Mozilla fail to correctly display a correct document it's a bug and > it will get fixed. Speaking of banks and Mozilla bugs: Bank HaPoalim's online account site displays its menus reversed due to a Mozilla bug: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165609 (yes, this is a rather obscure one; I wonder if anyone understood it) Their site also has some issues due to IE-specific code, but the main issue is an actual Mozilla bug. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
On Fri, 2002-12-27 at 01:09, Tal Peer wrote: > > PS: there's a typo (i think) in the takanon, in the last sentence it > should be FSF, not FCF. Of course ;-) Actually we had to change that - the Israeli law requires us to give the assets of the an non profit org to an *Israeli* no profit org with similar goals if it cease to exists. Since the FSF is not an israeli organization we replaced it with a different wording. We are still waiting for several legal issues to be resolved with the takanon (the computerizd voting have seemed to confuse the amutu regitrar a bit...). When we will have the final OK we will post a revised and offical takanon. Many thanks for your correct though, Gilad. > > > Thanks, > > Muli. > > > -- > Tal Peer > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > = > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://benyossef.com "Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine" = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thu, 2002-12-26 at 15:56, Boulgakov Andrei wrote: > > NSs and Mozilla takes 3%, IEs - 96%. If man*month of Web developer costs to > Leumi 15000, development of "IE-ed" site takes 10 man*month and "IE-ed and > NS-ed" 15 man*month, who need to pay 5000*5=25000 for 2% of NS users? Because it's not NS support and IE support - it's Standarts Complaince. No one need to support NS - they need to support IETF standarts. If NS or Mozilla fail to correctly display a correct document it's a bug and it will get fixed. I expect my bank to give me meaningfull information in a readable and secure way, I don't *WANT* flashy colors and animations. You don;t need any browser special features for that. Leumi people seem to understand this simple truth and now we can only wish that their will convince their Leumi Visa people to do the same thing. Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://benyossef.com "Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine" = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: Howdy, everyone, Gilad has put together a preliminary website for Hamakor, which is now available at http://www.hamakor.org.il. The website has a short FAQ, and the amuta's takanon. Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions ro comments, let us know what you think! Congratulations. PS: there's a typo (i think) in the takanon, in the last sentence it should be FSF, not FCF. Thanks, Muli. -- Tal Peer [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote: > On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Uri Bruck wrote about "Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site >and linux/mozilla client": > > > 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over- > > > complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers; > > What makes you think this "typical Israeli"? > > Do you have a different experience with your off-shore bank account? > > I'm not talking about back accounts, I'm talking about web sites. I'm talking about web sites too. > > Ever stopped and think why you can't do anything on Orange's site without > Flash? Why HaifaU's site cannot be used (at least when I checked a year > ago) without a browser that supports tons of IE-specific stuff? > > If you ever looked at the evolution of my sendsms code, you'd have noticed > how the the SMS-sending sites become more complicated as the time passes, > without actually getting more features in the process. > > At the same time look at Amazon. Look at Google. Look at CNN. At Yahoo. > All these sites try (don't always succeed, but at least try) to use the > *minimal* number of crazy non-standard features of their page. This has > a lot of benefits: smaller pages, can be viewed (or listened to) by more > people with more types of hardware and software, etc. And it doesn't > make the pages "ugly". So you believe that all those people writing books and articles about accessibility, compatibility and style, all of their bad experiences are from Israeli sites. Yeah, right. Israelies didn't the schisms in browser world. On one of the translators lists I read (one where nothing is off-topic) I've seen similar complaints about sites in other countries that are supposed to provide services. Just to pull one out of my sleeve, while writing this email I googled and found this interview: http://www.webbuilderconferences.com/interview_holzschlag.asp where he says, among other things: "If you have one of today's browsers, it can read and interpret most of that HTML without a problem. But other types of agents have difficulty interpreting it. There's also the issue of accessability: the problems for folks with disabilities because of the overbearing use of nonstandard markup" I doubt he uses any of the Israeli sites you complain about. > > I attribute what is happening to most Israeli websites to the "dawinim" > attitude of Israeli web-builders and companies. They think that if their > site doesn't use *ALL* the *LATEST* "advances" in web technology - flash, > java, movies, music, javascript, etc. - then they were swindled out of > their money. This is absolutely wrong, however. It is wrong, but there is nothing particularly Israeli about this attitude. > > In fact, I think it's a complete farce that these companies (and some > people on this list) say that it would cost them more money to support > Linux. Ah? It will cost them *less* money if they stopped using all these > crazy non-standard features that don't add anything for the users. This is a completely different discussion. I happen to agree with you on this particular point. > -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
Howdy, everyone, Gilad has put together a preliminary website for Hamakor, which is now available at http://www.hamakor.org.il. The website has a short FAQ, and the amuta's takanon. Please note that this website is a draft, and that the amuta is not officially registered yet, but will be soon. If you have any questions ro comments, let us know what you think! Thanks, Muli. -- Muli Ben-Yehuda "The speed of light really is too slow nowdays." -- Alan Cox = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thursday 26 December 2002 23:24, Nadav Har'El wrote: > On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Uri Bruck wrote about "Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client": > > > 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over- > > > complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers; > > > > What makes you think this "typical Israeli"? > > Do you have a different experience with your off-shore bank account? > > I'm not talking about back accounts, I'm talking about web sites. > > Ever stopped and think why you can't do anything on Orange's site without > Flash? Why HaifaU's site cannot be used (at least when I checked a year > ago) without a browser that supports tons of IE-specific stuff? I've already mentioned Netvision site's IE-only broadband subscription part. And this is an ISP that officially proclaims supporting Linux connections, and they even keep Linux support people ( try catching one, though :-( ) > > If you ever looked at the evolution of my sendsms code, you'd have noticed > how the the SMS-sending sites become more complicated as the time passes, > without actually getting more features in the process. "Why does the neighbor use it and not us? We are not friars" > > At the same time look at Amazon. Look at Google. Look at CNN. At Yahoo. Amazon - Linux. Google - Linux. Yahoo - FreeBSD. CNN - Linux. www.bll.co.il - Windows 2000. Make your conclusions. > All these sites try (don't always succeed, but at least try) to use the > *minimal* number of crazy non-standard features of their page. This has > a lot of benefits: smaller pages, can be viewed (or listened to) by more > people with more types of hardware and software, etc. And it doesn't > make the pages "ugly". > > I attribute what is happening to most Israeli websites to the "dawinim" > attitude of Israeli web-builders and companies. They think that if their > site doesn't use *ALL* the *LATEST* "advances" in web technology - flash, > java, movies, music, javascript, etc. - then they were swindled out of > their money. This is absolutely wrong, however. And don't forget that Israeli business is almost totally Microsoft's dominion. Largely due to Hebrew support of Office and to convenient groupware features of Outlook. > > In fact, I think it's a complete farce that these companies (and some > people on this list) say that it would cost them more money to support > Linux. Ah? It will cost them *less* money if they stopped using all these > crazy non-standard features that don't add anything for the users. Once more - FOR THEM, features they use ARE THE STANDARD. And Windows 2000 they use to run their servers IS THE STANDARD. That's what they are taught. I've recently had a possibility to look at the syllabus of "Computer communications" course taught by Tel-Aviv college. A bit of Netware and a lot of Windows 2000. UNIX is not even mentioned. Do you think people that graduate off such courses would even think of cross-platform, supporting Linux in their networks, interoperability and such? NO. > > I have used Leumi's site for more than a year now. Do you think I ever > said to myself "Oh, I wish the login process to this site had more > animation?" Or "I wish the site played Mozart's Requiem while showing me my > balance?" Or "Too bad these links don't flash when the mouse moves over > them?" Of course not. No bank-account owner really cares about these > things. The site creators just imagine people want those things, spend > thousands on doing them in the *wrong* way (by using IE-specific stuff) and Once more, for them it is THE RIGHT WAY, even more - it is THE ONLY WAY. They just don't know of any other way. > then wake up one day with 10% of the users being unable to use their site - > and then they start to complain how much it would cost them to fix what > they should have done right to begin with... I don't believe they ever start to complain. 90% of the users is such overhauling majority that they may easily tell this 10 % to shut up and to use Windows "like all normal people". -- Regards, Alex Chudnovsky e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ : 35559910 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Uri Bruck wrote about "Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client": > > 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over- > > complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers; > What makes you think this "typical Israeli"? > Do you have a different experience with your off-shore bank account? I'm not talking about back accounts, I'm talking about web sites. Ever stopped and think why you can't do anything on Orange's site without Flash? Why HaifaU's site cannot be used (at least when I checked a year ago) without a browser that supports tons of IE-specific stuff? If you ever looked at the evolution of my sendsms code, you'd have noticed how the the SMS-sending sites become more complicated as the time passes, without actually getting more features in the process. At the same time look at Amazon. Look at Google. Look at CNN. At Yahoo. All these sites try (don't always succeed, but at least try) to use the *minimal* number of crazy non-standard features of their page. This has a lot of benefits: smaller pages, can be viewed (or listened to) by more people with more types of hardware and software, etc. And it doesn't make the pages "ugly". I attribute what is happening to most Israeli websites to the "dawinim" attitude of Israeli web-builders and companies. They think that if their site doesn't use *ALL* the *LATEST* "advances" in web technology - flash, java, movies, music, javascript, etc. - then they were swindled out of their money. This is absolutely wrong, however. In fact, I think it's a complete farce that these companies (and some people on this list) say that it would cost them more money to support Linux. Ah? It will cost them *less* money if they stopped using all these crazy non-standard features that don't add anything for the users. I have used Leumi's site for more than a year now. Do you think I ever said to myself "Oh, I wish the login process to this site had more animation?" Or "I wish the site played Mozart's Requiem while showing me my balance?" Or "Too bad these links don't flash when the mouse moves over them?" Of course not. No bank-account owner really cares about these things. The site creators just imagine people want those things, spend thousands on doing them in the *wrong* way (by using IE-specific stuff) and then wake up one day with 10% of the users being unable to use their site - and then they start to complain how much it would cost them to fix what they should have done right to begin with... -- Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Dec 26 2002, 22 Tevet 5763 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Make it idiot proof and someone will make http://nadav.harel.org.il |a better idiot. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
> 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over- > complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers; > What makes you think this "typical Israeli"? > Do you have a different experience with your off-shore bank account? This is an issue of awarness and costs. Awarness: Mostly companies are not aware that there is such thing as Linux and so they never tell the people who actually build the site that it should support non-IE browsers. Costs: Even if the company knows about Linux and wants it's users to be able to use the site, the people / company that building the site can say "Ohh, it's Linux, so it's more hours and will cost more". Then the managers will do a little math and figure that Linux number of Linux users is so small that it would probably be not wotrh it. Me ? I always made my sites available to ALL browsers. Just look at www.sysadmin.co.il My boss even made me do without frames (god knows why) and I really can't say anything here, becouse he's subscribed here too :-) --- Oleg Kobets Network Administrator www.clean-mail.net Make love with Linux (unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; umount; sleep) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote: > On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Guy Baruch wrote about "OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and >linux/mozilla client": > > > > Hello, just a good story for a change, hope it's not too OT. > > Bank Leumi just recently did a face-lift to their "Leumi-Ba-Internet" site. > > Interesting to see you think it is a *good* story... > > After their site working well for a long time, I suddenly noticed a couple > of days ago that I can no longer use it with Mozilla. They had a "feedback" > link which I tried to use to complain, but that did not work too! > > So what do we have here: > > 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over- > complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers; What makes you think this "typical Israeli"? Do you have a different experience with your off-shore bank account? -- Thanks, Uri http://translation.israel.net = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: solved (was: strange file permission problem)
On Thursday 26 December 2002 17:44, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> But how are those permissions set to the files?
>
> Isn't it by a daily cron job ("msec")?
Yes, but it's an hourly CRON job on my MDK 9.0 box. And that's apparently the
default - I didn't make any changes to system jobs after installing.
--
Shlomo Solomon
http://come.to/shlomo.solomon
Sent by KMail (KDE 3.0.3) on LINUX Mandrake 9.0
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Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
OK, I don't want to get into website construction techniques (don't know
enough).
I found this a good story not because the new or old site dazzeled me by
its perfection,
but because BLL, although originally making a mistake, had the
beitzim/iot to
admit it to a private costumer (ar least non-formally), and provided me
with a workaround,
instead of just ignoring me or trying to snow-job me.
Unlike the current journalistic frame of mind, I believe that when a person
or an organization makes a mistake, and then responds _constructively_ to
criticism, this is a good behaviour.
In the short term, they responded well. It remains to be seen wether
they will
actually fix the new site in the long run.
Nadav Har'El wrote:
Interesting to see you think it is a *good* story...
2. A company which doesn't want to hear complaints, so instead of having
an email address, phone number, or even a decent link, they have a
non-functioning javascript complaint form.. I wrote a detailed complaint,
but the the "send" button did not work! I couldn't find an alternative
avenue of complaint.
The phone number for their costumer-service is on the bottom of their
initial login page .
So now we have #3
3. They knew they had a problem, and yet they didn't return the old
site, nor did they at least provide a link to it on their new site
("if the new site doesn't work for you, try this").
Again, what you say amounts to: "this should have been done better
technically",
to which I wholeheartedly agree. But the issue as I see it is wether
linux users
are constructively supported _at all_ , and the technical level of BLL
site design and
mechanics is not so relevant to this list.
--
-- regards
+---
+ Guy Baruch , Plasma Laboratory, Weizmann Institue.
+ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+ phone: 972-8-934-2211
+---
They hang the man and flog the woman
That steal the goose from off the common,
But let the greater villain loose
That steals the common from the goose.
-- English folk poem, circa 1764
http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR27.3/bollier.html
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Re: solved (was: strange file permission problem)
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, shlomo solomon wrote:
> For anyone who doesn't remember this thread of a few days ago, I had some log
> files whose permissions were being randomly changed to 600 (after I set them
> to 644). Ths was happening several times a day.
>
> OK - there's a new application in the Mandrake 9.0 Control Panel called
> drakperm. It handles permissions on groups of files and /var/log/* was set to
> 600. I found that you can set user defined rules to over-ride whatever you
> need to, so I added a rule to set /var/log/mylogs/* to 644 and I haven't had
> any problems for a few days now.
>
> I didn't find any documentation for this on GOOGLE or any of the Mandrake
> sites - MandrakeUser or MandakeExpert. There is only a screen shot of the
> application on the main Mandrake site.
But how are those permissions set to the files?
Isn't it by a daily cron job ("msec")?
--
Tzafrir Cohen
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir
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solved (was: strange file permission problem)
For anyone who doesn't remember this thread of a few days ago, I had some log files whose permissions were being randomly changed to 600 (after I set them to 644). Ths was happening several times a day. OK - there's a new application in the Mandrake 9.0 Control Panel called drakperm. It handles permissions on groups of files and /var/log/* was set to 600. I found that you can set user defined rules to over-ride whatever you need to, so I added a rule to set /var/log/mylogs/* to 644 and I haven't had any problems for a few days now. I didn't find any documentation for this on GOOGLE or any of the Mandrake sites - MandrakeUser or MandakeExpert. There is only a screen shot of the application on the main Mandrake site. FWIW -- Shlomo Solomon http://come.to/shlomo.solomon Sent by KMail (KDE 3.0.3) on LINUX Mandrake 9.0 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
Title: RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client ;-) AFAIK, you're right only in #3 MM in fixed price project can cost to customer more than 15000 :) -Original Message- From: Eli Marmor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 3:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client Boulgakov Andrei wrote: > NSs and Mozilla takes 3%, IEs - 96%. If man*month of Web developer > costs to Leumi 15000$, development of "IE-ed" site takes 10 man*month $15000 for a man month of a web developer looks a little exaggerated. > and "IE-ed and NS-ed" 15 man*month, who need to pay 5000*5=25000$ for > 2% of NS users? $5000 makes more sense. So what we have learned? 1. NSI charges $5K per man month of a web developer. 2. Leumi paid NSI $50K for their new site (not too much... 2-3 years ago, it could cost twice...) 3. Supporting Netscape expenses the total cost by more 50%. I must admit that sometimes, reading linux-il is more useful than Globes and/or TheMarker. Andrei, sorry for discriminating you... You really looks nice and kind man! You are welcome to share numbers with us more often. ;-) -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
Hi,
On Thu, Dec 26, 2002 at 03:44:28PM +0200, Alex Chudnovsky wrote:
> On Thursday 26 December 2002 15:15, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Guy Baruch wrote about "OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi
> site and linux/mozilla client":
> > > Hello, just a good story for a change, hope it's not too OT.
> > > Bank Leumi just recently did a face-lift to their "Leumi-Ba-Internet"
> > > site.
> >
> > Interesting to see you think it is a *good* story...
> >
> > After their site working well for a long time, I suddenly noticed a couple
> > of days ago that I can no longer use it with Mozilla. They had a "feedback"
> > link which I tried to use to complain, but that did not work too!
> >
> > So what do we have here:
> >
> > 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over-
> > complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers;
> > It takes a very determined Microsoft junkie to create a site that
> > works as badly with Mozilla as the current Leumi site (at least the one I
> > tried a couple of days ago) - every link appeared to be a horribly
> > complicated javascript crap instead of normal link, for example. Hello
> > there, Leumi, what about people using Mozilla? Konqueror? Opera? Blind
> > people using a text broswer? And why the heck do you need all that
> > Javascript stuff, instead of just using standard links?
> For that is what their site generation software provides :-( And since 99% of
> Israeli PC users ( if not more ) use Windows, there is no reason for them to
> EVER check the compatibility of their site with non-IE browsers.
There are other reasons for not using complex javascript links; besides
what Nadav said (which I completely agree with), it's also much slower
than hrefs. Usually people do not notice this, but it is very annoying
when connecting to a Windows Terminal Server (from either Linux or
Windows!) - moving the mouse over such links, in case they were e.g.
written to change their color in such a case, is terribly slow on slow
links.
I have seen configurations that tried to redraw the whole IE window
when moving over every single link in a home page. A normal user won't
notice this at all, but it's unusable when connecting with a "remote
desktop".
The point is - it has nothing to do with Linux users demanding
unreasonable behaviour (like making a company write 2 sites for 3%
of the users). It's all about regular things about software
development - clean, simple, standards-compliant designs vs. the
too-common bells and whistles.
> >
> > 2. A company which doesn't want to hear complaints, so instead of having
> > an email address, phone number, or even a decent link, they have a
> > non-functioning javascript complaint form.. I wrote a detailed
> > complaint, but the the "send" button did not work! I couldn't find an
> > alternative avenue of complaint.
> It all does function - in IE.
> >
> > >(which, TWIMC, is the old site at (note case):
> > > https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html )
> >
> > So now we have #3
> > 3. They knew they had a problem, and yet they didn't return the old
> > site, nor did they at least provide a link to it on their new site
> > ("if the new site doesn't work for you, try this").
> >
> > :(
> One another company with such attitudes is, to my deepest regret, Netvision.
> The part of their site that describes various broadband subscription options,
> is clearly created with IE in mind ONLY.
> --
>
> Regards,
> Alex Chudnovsky
> e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ICQ : 35559910
>
>
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Didi
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Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, Alex Chudnovsky wrote: > On Thursday 26 December 2002 15:15, Nadav Har'El wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Guy Baruch wrote about "OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi > site and linux/mozilla client": > > > Hello, just a good story for a change, hope it's not too OT. > > > Bank Leumi just recently did a face-lift to their "Leumi-Ba-Internet" > > > site. > > > > Interesting to see you think it is a *good* story... > > > > After their site working well for a long time, I suddenly noticed a couple > > of days ago that I can no longer use it with Mozilla. They had a "feedback" > > link which I tried to use to complain, but that did not work too! > > > > So what do we have here: > > > > 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over- > >complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers; > >It takes a very determined Microsoft junkie to create a site that > > works as badly with Mozilla as the current Leumi site (at least the one I > > tried a couple of days ago) - every link appeared to be a horribly > > complicated javascript crap instead of normal link, for example. Hello > > there, Leumi, what about people using Mozilla? Konqueror? Opera? Blind > > people using a text broswer? And why the heck do you need all that > > Javascript stuff, instead of just using standard links? > For that is what their site generation software provides :-( And since 99% of > Israeli PC users ( if not more ) use Windows, there is no reason for them to > EVER check the compatibility of their site with non-IE browsers. Recall that there are other user agents: * web crawlers * users with PDAs Not to mention users with other browsers. It is generally a bad idea to keep the web crawlers from your site, otherwise it won't be indexed in e.g. google. one of the main design goals of the html/related standards of w3 (html, dom, css) is to allow web designers to seperate content from design, and thus make more meaningful content available to all conforming agents. (relative links, anybody?) -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
Boulgakov Andrei wrote: > NSs and Mozilla takes 3%, IEs - 96%. If man*month of Web developer > costs to Leumi 15000$, development of "IE-ed" site takes 10 man*month $15000 for a man month of a web developer looks a little exaggerated. > and "IE-ed and NS-ed" 15 man*month, who need to pay 5000*5=25000$ for > 2% of NS users? $5000 makes more sense. So what we have learned? 1. NSI charges $5K per man month of a web developer. 2. Leumi paid NSI $50K for their new site (not too much... 2-3 years ago, it could cost twice...) 3. Supporting Netscape expenses the total cost by more 50%. I must admit that sometimes, reading linux-il is more useful than Globes and/or TheMarker. Andrei, sorry for discriminating you... You really looks nice and kind man! You are welcome to share numbers with us more often. ;-) -- Eli Marmor [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO, Founder Netmask (El-Mar) Internet Technologies Ltd. __ Tel.: +972-9-766-1020 8 Yad-Harutzim St. Fax.: +972-9-766-1314 P.O.B. 7004 Mobile: +972-50-23-7338 Kfar-Saba 44641, Israel = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FW: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
Title: FW: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client >So, with all the stories about sites discriminating against non-IE clients, Discriminators are users. Customer (Leumi in this case) looking at Browser Statistics won't pay money on customization for Netscape+Mozilla. If you and all your friends will browse about with NS or Mozilla, customers will pay for supporting NS and you will enjoy. NSs and Mozilla takes 3%, IEs - 96%. If man*month of Web developer costs to Leumi 15000, development of "IE-ed" site takes 10 man*month and "IE-ed and NS-ed" 15 man*month, who need to pay 5000*5=25000 for 2% of NS users?
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thursday 26 December 2002 15:15, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Guy Baruch wrote about "OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi
site and linux/mozilla client":
> > Hello, just a good story for a change, hope it's not too OT.
> > Bank Leumi just recently did a face-lift to their "Leumi-Ba-Internet"
> > site.
>
> Interesting to see you think it is a *good* story...
>
> After their site working well for a long time, I suddenly noticed a couple
> of days ago that I can no longer use it with Mozilla. They had a "feedback"
> link which I tried to use to complain, but that did not work too!
>
> So what do we have here:
>
> 1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over-
> complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers;
> It takes a very determined Microsoft junkie to create a site that
> works as badly with Mozilla as the current Leumi site (at least the one I
> tried a couple of days ago) - every link appeared to be a horribly
> complicated javascript crap instead of normal link, for example. Hello
> there, Leumi, what about people using Mozilla? Konqueror? Opera? Blind
> people using a text broswer? And why the heck do you need all that
> Javascript stuff, instead of just using standard links?
For that is what their site generation software provides :-( And since 99% of
Israeli PC users ( if not more ) use Windows, there is no reason for them to
EVER check the compatibility of their site with non-IE browsers.
>
> 2. A company which doesn't want to hear complaints, so instead of having
> an email address, phone number, or even a decent link, they have a
> non-functioning javascript complaint form.. I wrote a detailed
> complaint, but the the "send" button did not work! I couldn't find an
> alternative avenue of complaint.
It all does function - in IE.
>
> >(which, TWIMC, is the old site at (note case):
> > https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html )
>
> So now we have #3
> 3. They knew they had a problem, and yet they didn't return the old
> site, nor did they at least provide a link to it on their new site
> ("if the new site doesn't work for you, try this").
>
> :(
One another company with such attitudes is, to my deepest regret, Netvision.
The part of their site that describes various broadband subscription options,
is clearly created with IE in mind ONLY.
--
Regards,
Alex Chudnovsky
e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ : 35559910
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Dinner with RMS
Hi everybody, As most (all?) of you already know, Richard M. Stallman of the GNU/FSF/GPL/gcc/gdb/emacs/etc fame is coming to Israel to participate in the IBM's GNU/Linux events in Tel Aviv (Jan 8) and in Haifa (Jan 9). We have been in touch with him, and invited him to a dinner with members of the Israeli free software community. The original idea was to offer him a free beer or two, but it turned out that RMS does not drink beer and generally disapproves of alcohol consumption, but is interested in food, so dinner it is. The "free speech, not free beer" cliche thus acquire extra significance. As usual, the most reasonable location that is the least inconvenient for people living in Israel is somewhere in the center. Note that before anyone decided on anything this opinion was voiced by people who do *not* live in the center ;-). RMS will be in Tel Aviv on the 8th, and it is likely that many people will attend the TAU event on that day, so we'll do it on the 8th of January, in the evening. We've been in touch with IBM organizers, too, to make sure there will be no scheduling conflicts with them. Having asked RMS about his preferences, we decided to meet in one of two restaurants in Herzliya Pituach. Which restaurant depends on the number of people who intend to come. Some ground rules: * Richard specifically asked to remind the people who will come to his lectures and especially to the dinner that he does *not* advocate "open source", and his work is not a part of Linux. Please refresh your memory with http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html Note that the point is, apparently, not that his views are indisputable (he is not one to shy away from an argument, is he?), but if you are going to talk/argue/ask meaningfully, it will help to know what the guy has said on the topic. * Everyone but RMS pays for himself/herself. * Please let us know if you are definitely coming to the dinner. Let us know also if you intend to come but are not quite sure you'll make it. To let us know, send us an email before noon Monday. We will settle on a restaurant when we know an approximate number of people, and if there are more than a few we will need to contact a restaurant in advance. Email us at the addresses in the signature below (remove NOSPAM), use both addresses for redundancy. Please use "RSVP: Dinner with RMS" as subject. Do *not* reply to this message - replies will go to linux-il. * Please don't start a discussion about time and place. If you really hate some kind of food, like "I am allergic to fish" or "I am a vegetarian" feel free to mention it, but we cannot guarantee anything. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Muli Ben-Yehuda | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
Title: RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client >So, with all the stories about sites discriminating against non-IE clients, Discriminators are users. Customer (Leumi in this case) looking at Browser Statistics won't pay money on customization for Netscape+Mozilla. If you and all your friends will browse about with NS or Mozilla, customers will pay for supporting NS and you will enjoy. NSs and Mozilla takes 3%, IEs - 96%. If man*month of Web developer costs to Leumi 15000$, development of "IE-ed" site takes 10 man*month and "IE-ed and NS-ed" 15 man*month, who need to pay 5000*5=25000$ for 2% of NS users?
Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
On Thu, Dec 26, 2002, Guy Baruch wrote about "OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and
linux/mozilla client":
>
> Hello, just a good story for a change, hope it's not too OT.
> Bank Leumi just recently did a face-lift to their "Leumi-Ba-Internet" site.
Interesting to see you think it is a *good* story...
After their site working well for a long time, I suddenly noticed a couple
of days ago that I can no longer use it with Mozilla. They had a "feedback"
link which I tried to use to complain, but that did not work too!
So what do we have here:
1. A company that designs its website with the typical Israeli over-
complication and utter disregard to standards and non-IE browsers;
It takes a very determined Microsoft junkie to create a site that works
as badly with Mozilla as the current Leumi site (at least the one I
tried a couple of days ago) - every link appeared to be a horribly
complicated javascript crap instead of normal link, for example.
Hello there, Leumi, what about people using Mozilla? Konqueror? Opera?
Blind people using a text broswer? And why the heck do you need all
that Javascript stuff, instead of just using standard links?
2. A company which doesn't want to hear complaints, so instead of having
an email address, phone number, or even a decent link, they have a
non-functioning javascript complaint form.. I wrote a detailed complaint,
but the the "send" button did not work! I couldn't find an alternative
avenue of complaint.
>(which, TWIMC, is the old site at (note case):
> https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html )
So now we have #3
3. They knew they had a problem, and yet they didn't return the old
site, nor did they at least provide a link to it on their new site
("if the new site doesn't work for you, try this").
:(
--
Nadav Har'El| Thursday, Dec 26 2002, 21 Tevet 5763
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |The road to good intentions is paved with
http://nadav.harel.org.il |hell.
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OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
Hello, just a good story for a change, hope it's not too OT. Bank Leumi just recently did a face-lift to their "Leumi-Ba-Internet" site. I have long viewed their site via Mozilla/Linux, which their old site supported. Problem is, the new site did not work with Mozilla (tried several versions) on linux. After some time with their technical support, they: 1) acknowledged the problem as theirs . 2) said they intend to fix it for the new site . 3) provided me with a workaround . (which, TWIMC, is the old site at (note case): https://hb.leumi.co.il/H/Login.html ) So, with all the stories about sites discriminating against non-IE clients, and all the stories about client-service here in the hot, short-tempered Levant, It's good to see some non-IT companies have the sense to treat the "linux minority" with a professional, clueful manner. -- -- regards +--- + Guy Baruch , Plasma Laboratory, Weizmann Institue. + mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] + phone: 972-8-934-2211 +--- They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. -- English folk poem, circa 1764 http://bostonreview.mit.edu/BR27.3/bollier.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Shaul Karl ] Meeting Regarding Settingup a Commercial Linux Group
Hi, On Thu, 2002-12-26 at 12:02, Yehuda Drori wrote: > it's seems that the news about the Amuta is out there... > > I'm not sure that any of us should response to questions regarding the Amuta > until Haim Ravia will finish the legale matters. hhmm.. why? I see no reason not to tell people what we do so long as we explain that the registration process is not finalized yet. I mean, what do we gain by "hiding"? we can't present ourselves as a registered amuta or act as one but we can tell people what we do. I bliebe in freedom of information and I thought all of us did ;-) Gilad. -- Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://benyossef.com "Geeks rock bands cool name #8192: RAID against the machine" = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Shaul Karl ] Meeting Regarding Setting up a Commercial Linux Group
On Thursday 26 December 2002 10:18, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: > OK, the existence of HaMakor has been leaked to linux-il, > apparently. Question is, does it exist? Can we get updated on the > status of registration? > > Another question: should a member of the board post to linux-il and > announce it (assuming that it is registered), or at least tell them > that it sort of exists but has not been registered yet, and thus has > not been officially announced so far? Hi all it's seems that the news about the Amuta is out there... I'm not sure that any of us should response to questions regarding the Amuta until Haim Ravia will finish the legale matters. the more we put there will get us more work on our hands which is not necessary at this stage.. I know it's quite rough but until we are an official Amuta we are not allowed to act as one.. ( I think ... ) again... let Haim finish his job P.S. as I'm writing those lines I've noticed Muli answering some one about the Amuta getting help from Haim... this and more Q. like that will surface up as long as there is someone to answer.. just ignore them for a while be.. ( thats my opinion.. ) -- Yehuda Drori http://whatsup.org.il Your Linux Spot On the Web in Hebrew = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: Meeting Regarding Setting up a Commercial Linux Group
Eli Marmor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Shachar Shemesh wrote: > > > Like I said, not yet. Rasham Ha'amutot did not like our proposal for > > allowing online assembly of the members and electronic votings. As soon > > as it's officially alive, we'll post everything. > > Have you contacted Haim Ravia? > I believe he can easily convince the registrar... Haim just complained that it was not all that easy, but he is working on it... ;-) -- Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
