Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Aug 26, 2010, at 5:21 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: I was referring to computer software in specific. So I suspect if one web site published a story in a freely available, and another website "accidentally" copied it, no harm was done, and thus no need to pay anybody. That exact argument, in relation to music and other intellectual property has been made by someone else on this very list. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 01:52:23PM +0300, geoffrey mendelson wrote: > That's an interesting point. What exactly would you sue for? In Israel > you can only claim damages equal to the amount you were actually > damaged. Not only that, but buying an infringing work is not illegal in > Israel. So I suspect if one web site published a story in a freely available, and another website "accidentally" copied it, no harm was done, and thus no need to pay anybody. http://www.the7eye.org.il/articles/Pages/170810_one_less_hole_in_the_net.aspx -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:39:43PM +0300, geoffrey mendelson wrote: > > On Aug 25, 2010, at 11:18 PM, Geoff Shang wrote: > >> On Wed, 25 Aug 2010, Lior Kaplan wrote: >> >>> http://www.doom.co.il/blog/?p=333 >> >> Any chance of a quick executive summary for us Hebrew impaired? > > > > I had to use google translate, so it may not be completely accurate. > > He bought a digital TV decoder box. It has a USB port so you can put a > disk drive or memory stick on it and record programs. > > He thinks it runs on Linux. To comply with the GPL, the source code > needs to be availble. It is as far as he knows not available. Regardless of what he thinks and what he bought, a certain company makes a firmware upgrade available for download. That firmware upgrade is technically a bootable Linux system (kernel, root filesystem, some extra tools needed to boot it). If you make a binary generated from a GPL source code available for download, you should provide the sources (or offer to provide them). -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
Oron Peled wrote: IANAL, but AFAIK English is one of Israel's official languages. In this you are, to the best of my knowledge, wrong. Only Hebrew and Arabic are official languages. Then again, the only official GPL language is English, and Israeli courts acknowledge, for example, contracts in any language understood by both parties to the contract, whether it is in an official language or not (note - IANAL either). As such, English does not need to be an official language of Israel for it to be relevant. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd. http://www.lingnu.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
Dov Grobgeld wrote: Note that you can only sue for infringement of works that you own the copyright for, or if the owner of the work has agreed that you can sue on her behalf. I.e. before trying to sue someone you have find someone with copyright who is willing to claim that his right have been violated. In Israel, true. Note, however, that there are enough people in Israel who own copyrights in the Linux kernel. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd. http://www.lingnu.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
Note that you can only sue for infringement of works that you own the copyright for, or if the owner of the work has agreed that you can sue on her behalf. I.e. before trying to sue someone you have find someone with copyright who is willing to claim that his right have been violated. Regards, Dov 2010/8/26 Shachar Shemesh > geoffrey mendelson wrote: > > > > That's an interesting point. What exactly would you sue for? > > You revoke their license. > > In Israel you can only claim damages equal to the amount you were actually > damaged. Not only that, but buying an infringing work is not illegal in > Israel. > > I'm fairly sure that is not true. At least not for willful infringement, > which is what continuing to distribute a GPL work after your license has > been revoked is. > > Shachar > > -- > Shachar Shemesh > Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.http://www.lingnu.com > > > ___ > Linux-il mailing list > Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il > http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il > > ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Thursday, 26 בAugust 2010 13:52:23 geoffrey mendelson wrote: > On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Oron Peled wrote: > > Now try to convince a judge that publishing in some > > manufacturer's web-site is equivalent to this. > That's an interesting point. What exactly would you sue for? Copyright infringment. > In Israel you can only claim damages equal to the amount you were > actually damaged. IANAL, but it's obvious you didn't bother to read the law: * item 56 - up to 100,000 NIS without proving any damage. * Also look at item 53... And even if you were right. Who said the damage is defined by the price of the software bits? This is a straw man which was tried at the USA and was thrown by the court to were it belongs... > Not only that, but buying an infringing work is not illegal > in Israel. Yes. Also the sun is shining now and the water are wet. What does it has to do with the *seller* of an infringing product? > AFAIK there is no requirement for the GPL notification, offer of > source code, etc to be in any particular language.Can you say with > 100% certainty that it is not included in the Chinese documentation > you (or the importer) threw out unread? > Or that if you went into setup > and clicked on ABOUT, you would not see such a message? Yes, all licenses are in English (in all products I've seen) but the GPL was translated to Chinese and hidden in the ABOUT box without providing the English original. Show me a product like this, and I'll settle ;-) [or better phrased -- when pigs fly] > Finally why not? Almost everything I have bought here that includes a > GPL notification does so in English (not Hebrew) and points to a web > site for information on how to obtain source code. IANAL, but AFAIK English is one of Israel's official languages. I've done with this thread, since you are obviously looking under the rung for irrelevant arguments -- there is a huge market of GPL infringing products. The infringments are so big (both in quantity and level) that bothering ourselves with some rare-earth arguments is wasting time. Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron Free software: each person contributes a brick, but ultimately each person receives a house in return. -- Brendan Scott ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
geoffrey mendelson wrote: That's an interesting point. What exactly would you sue for? You revoke their license. In Israel you can only claim damages equal to the amount you were actually damaged. Not only that, but buying an infringing work is not illegal in Israel. I'm fairly sure that is not true. At least not for willful infringement, which is what continuing to distribute a GPL work after your license has been revoked is. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd. http://www.lingnu.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Oron Peled wrote: Now try to convince a judge that publishing in some manufacturer's web-site is equivalent to this. That's an interesting point. What exactly would you sue for? In Israel you can only claim damages equal to the amount you were actually damaged. Not only that, but buying an infringing work is not illegal in Israel. AFAIK there is no requirement for the GPL notification, offer of source code, etc to be in any particular language. Can you say with 100% certainty that it is not included in the Chinese documentation you (or the importer) threw out unread? Or that if you went into setup and clicked on ABOUT, you would not see such a message? Finally why not? Almost everything I have bought here that includes a GPL notification does so in English (not Hebrew) and points to a web site for information on how to obtain source code. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Monthly waste of time :-) Has anyone been able to buy a Digital TV USB stick in Israel and get it to work under Linux?
On Wednesday, 25 בAugust 2010 23:39:43 geoffrey mendelson wrote: > As far as I know the manufacturer of the box has to publish the code, > not the OEM or importer, who just sticks their name on it.If they have > a site in China in Chinese, with no other languages, with the code > available for download, or a comment that you send them ten dollars > for postage and producing a disk, they will send you the code, they > have fullfilled the GPL requirements. Hey, hey, not so quick: * Importers are not exempt from copyright law: Please check http://www.jnul.huji.ac.il/heb/docs/IL-copyright-2007.pdf An imported copyright infringing work is handled just as if the infringment was done in Israel (page 2, "definitions") * Also, from item 1 in the license (GPLv2): "... and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program." You can bet every sold device has nice page from company lawyers with tons of copyrights messages regarding *their* rights. Failing to include a copy of the *GPL license* is a violation in itself. * If you check item 3 in the license, you'll see that for commercial distributor the only valid options are: - Supply the source with the program - "Accompany it with a written offer..." to supply the source code. Now try to convince a judge that publishing in some manufacturer's web-site is equivalent to this. I haven't seen a company waive its rights away so easily as you just did for Free Software projects... Let's be more carefull next time. -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron There are only 10 types of people in the world- Those who understand binary, and those who do not. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
