Re: Scheduling a Meeting in a Cafe or Restaurant
On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:01:32 +0200 Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.name wrote: On Thursday, November 03, 2011 6:16 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@shlomifish.org wrote: I don't see why a real-life meeting of people who share similar interests should be disallowed. That's the first time you even hinted at what the meeting would be about. You might want to clarify what it would be about and why it can't be held over phone or instant messaging or smoke signals. The meeting would be about several FOSS enthusiasts meeting for chat and food, in real life, in a restaurant or a café somewhere in Tel Aviv, for the sake of having IRL chat and food. It can't be held over phone or IM because these are not enjoyable as meeting people face-to-face. I don't have a planned agenda for the meeting, nor do I intend to prepare one - we'll talk about what we want there. Hope I clarified it. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Star Trek: We, the Living Dead - http://shlom.in/st-wtld rindolf buu: do you have a functional spec? An architecture document? An interface whitepaper? A developer’s guide? A user manual? A “The BL Book” and “BL — The Program”? buu rindolf: no, no, no no and no Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Scheduling a Meeting in a Cafe or Restaurant
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 20:00, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: Now I'm confused. Smoke signals can only be used on a face-to-face meeting nowadays, right? Shlomi is in Tel Aviv, that is in the west of the country. As we are entering Autumn, with westward winds, Shlomi can _receive_ smoke signals but his transmissions will be lost until Spring when the winds turn eastward again. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Scheduling a Meeting in a Cafe or Restaurant
On Saturday, November 05, 2011 3:43 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@shlomifish.org wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 19:01:32 +0200 Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.name wrote: You might want to clarify what it would be about and why it can't be held over phone or instant messaging or smoke signals. The meeting would be about several FOSS enthusiasts meeting for chat and food, in real life, in a restaurant or a café somewhere in Tel Aviv, for the sake of having IRL chat and food. It can't be held over phone or IM because these are not enjoyable as meeting people face-to-face. I don't have a planned agenda for the meeting, nor do I intend to prepare one - we'll talk about what we want there. Hope I clarified it. You did, thanks. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Scheduling a Meeting in a Cafe or Restaurant
On 11/05/2011 08:12 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 20:00, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: Now I'm confused. Smoke signals can only be used on a face-to-face meeting nowadays, right? Shlomi is in Tel Aviv, that is in the west of the country. As we are entering Autumn, with westward winds, Shlomi can _receive_ smoke signals but his transmissions will be lost until Spring when the winds turn eastward again. You are not 100% correct. First, terminology wise, wind is named after the direction it is coming from, not the direction it is blowing to. As such, you need to reverse almost all east and west in your explanation. Also, while the Autumn and Spring are, indeed, the seasons in Israel where Eastern winds are expected, they are still not typical. The sea is too big of a heat sink to overcome so completely. Last, it is mostly the fog that will prevent Shlomi from seeing smoke signals, which are mostly going up anyways. As such, I suggest we do all smoke signals communications indoors, where visibility is better. So, we need a Cafe where we can set fire to the furniture. Since furniture filling, typically, burns with highly toxic smoke, be sure to bring your gas masks with you. Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd. http://www.lingnu.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Scheduling a Meeting in a Cafe or Restaurant
2011/11/5 Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz: On 11/05/2011 08:12 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 20:00, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: Now I'm confused. Smoke signals can only be used on a face-to-face meeting nowadays, right? Shlomi is in Tel Aviv, that is in the west of the country. As we are entering Autumn, with westward winds, Shlomi can _receive_ smoke signals but his transmissions will be lost until Spring when the winds turn eastward again. You are not 100% correct. First, terminology wise, wind is named after the direction it is coming from, not the direction it is blowing to. As such, you need to reverse almost all east and west in your explanation. Also, while the Autumn and Spring are, indeed, the seasons in Israel where Eastern winds are expected, they are still not typical. The sea is too big of a heat sink to overcome so completely. Last, it is mostly the fog that will prevent Shlomi from seeing smoke signals, which are mostly going up anyways. As such, I suggest we do all smoke signals communications indoors, where visibility is better. So, we need a Cafe where we can set fire to the furniture. Since furniture filling, typically, burns with highly toxic smoke, be sure to bring your gas masks with you. Shachar Thank you. I filed an RFE on the Easterly and Westerly components to have them renamed to something more descriptive. I suggested FromTheEast and FromTheWest but I do not know how keen on CamelCase climatologists are. As for the fog, that was closed as WORKSFORME within seconds of being opened. I countered that the bug could not be reliably triaged at night, I was them promptly banned from climatezilla. As for burning the furniture, I suggest that we simply forego the restaurant and meet at Shlomi's place. Shomi, does the couch have enough wood to keep up warm the whole night w^w^w^w^w^w^w is the couch big enough for all of us? Is there adequate ventilation (Shlomi posts on /., so maybe not). -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
umount and data is lost?
Hi list, I am trying to debug this problem in a system I am developing: at some point I need to write a number to a file, and then reboot via an external device the machine. That device will cut of the power for a moment, and the machine will power on again (this is to overcome a fault we could not overcome otherwise). Before the reboot, I umount the proper partition and then sync. For some reason, on one machine we see that the data is not updated and the original data is kept in the file. I konw empirically that if I add a sleep(5) after the umount, and before the reboot the data is written to the disk. Any tips how to debug this? * the system is a TI 2.6.32 kernel (OMAP) * the data is saved using fopen() * disk is umounted using system(umount /data), and then I call from C to sync(); * Cannot print debug this easily since the reboot is automated at the start of the APP, and then busybox's login breaks my serial terminal (like this eats \n, git fixes if I press enter) * The application is also multi-threaded to add more difficulty ... * FS is JFFS2 * again the workaround is a sleep(5) Any ideas? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: umount and data is lost?
On 6 November 2011 08:12, Diego elc...@kde.org wrote: Hi list, I am trying to debug this problem in a system I am developing: at some point I need to write a number to a file, and then reboot via an external device the machine. That device will cut of the power for a moment, and the machine will power on again (this is to overcome a fault we could not overcome otherwise). Before the reboot, I umount the proper partition and then sync. For some reason, on one machine we see that the data is not updated and the original data is kept in the file. I konw empirically that if I add a sleep(5) after the umount, and before the reboot the data is written to the disk. Disk write cache without battery backup is the first thing that comes to mind. Check your disk's specifications and how to control the cache. Any tips how to debug this? * the system is a TI 2.6.32 kernel (OMAP) * the data is saved using fopen() * disk is umounted using system(umount /data), and then I call from C to sync(); Why not a direct umount(2) call? --Amos ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: umount and data is lost?
On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Diego elc...@kde.org wrote: Hi list, I am trying to debug this problem in a system I am developing: at some point I need to write a number to a file, and then reboot via an external device the machine. That device will cut of the power for a moment, and the machine will power on again (this is to overcome a fault we could not overcome otherwise). Before the reboot, I umount the proper partition and then sync. For some reason, on one machine we see that the data is not updated and the original data is kept in the file. I konw empirically that if I add a sleep(5) after the umount, and before the reboot the data is written to the disk. Any tips how to debug this? * the system is a TI 2.6.32 kernel (OMAP) * the data is saved using fopen() * disk is umounted using system(umount /data), and then I call from C to sync(); * Cannot print debug this easily since the reboot is automated at the start of the APP, and then busybox's login breaks my serial terminal (like this eats \n, git fixes if I press enter) * The application is also multi-threaded to add more difficulty ... * FS is JFFS2 * again the workaround is a sleep(5) Any ideas? man 2 sync says: BUGS According to the standard specification (e.g., POSIX.1-2001), sync() schedules the writes, but may return before the actual writing is done. However, since version 1.3.20 Linux does actually wait. (This still does not guarantee data integrity: modern disks have large caches.) maybe that's your culprit? -- Shimi ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: umount and data is lost?
On Saturday, November 05, 2011 11:22:04 PM shimi wrote: man 2 sync says: BUGS According to the standard specification (e.g., POSIX.1-2001), sync() schedules the writes, but may return before the actual writing is done. However, since version 1.3.20 Linux does actually wait. (This still does not guarantee data integrity: modern disks have large caches.) maybe that's your culprit? I may have reading problems but... I understand: * According to the standard specification (e.g., POSIX.1-2001), sync() schedules the writes,but may return before the actual writing is done. === According to posix, sync means you ask to sync. It does not wait to the acutal data to be written to the disk. * However, since version 1.3.20 Linux does actually wait. = Hoever on linux it does. * (This still does not guarantee data integrity: modern disks have large caches.) == Using nand, cache is meaninless here, writing time is ... millisecs? And, again - I issued a umount, please remember that. (Amos - thanks, code will be fixed to use directly the system call). ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: umount and data is lost?
On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Diego elc...@kde.org wrote: Using nand, cache is meaninless here, writing time is ... millisecs? The actual writing time, you're probably correct. Who said the controller does not wait for some more data to be more efficient in writing (to avoid wear or increase write performance)? (and there are probably two controllers here - one on your motherboard, and the one on the nand device, which has its own algorithms and ways of doing stuff... and they're both black boxes for you...). ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: umount and data is lost?
On 11/05/2011 05:12 PM, Diego wrote: Hi list, I am trying to debug this problem in a system I am developing: at some point I need to write a number to a file, and then reboot via an external device the machine. That device will cut of the power for a moment, and the machine will power on again (this is to overcome a fault we could not overcome otherwise). Before the reboot, I umount the proper partition and then sync. Have you tried a sync() before the umount? I have experienced (on older Ubuntus, may or may not be relevant to your system) that sync after unmount doesn't actually do anything, whereas a sync before unmount does -- perhaps it only syncs the list of mounted filesystems. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: umount and data is lost?
On 06/11/2011 02:03, Ori Berger wrote: On 11/05/2011 05:12 PM, Diego wrote: Hi list, I am trying to debug this problem in a system I am developing: at some point I need to write a number to a file, and then reboot via an external device the machine. That device will cut of the power for a moment, and the machine will power on again (this is to overcome a fault we could not overcome otherwise). Before the reboot, I "umount" the proper partition and then "sync". Have you tried a sync() before the umount? I have experienced (on older Ubuntus, may or may not be relevant to your system) that "sync" after unmount doesn't actually do anything, whereas a "sync" before unmount does -- perhaps it only syncs the list of mounted filesystems. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il umount should force a sync, although you indeed could try a sync first if umount is buggy. Sync after umount sounds a bit useless. Are you sure that you are waiting for the sync to actually finish before you reboot? You could try a few seconds wait and see if that helps as a start. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: umount and data is lost?
On Sunday, November 06, 2011 8:21 AM, Amos Shapira amos.shap...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 November 2011 08:12, Diego elc...@kde.org wrote: * disk is umounted using system(umount /data), and then I call from C to sync(); Why not a direct umount(2) call? Do you check the return value of system()? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
