Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
Once again a relevant quote (scene 10): " BRIAN: Brothers! Brothers! We should be struggling together! FRANCIS: We are! Ohh. BRIAN: We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy! EVERYONE: The Judean People's Front?! BRIAN: No, no! The Romans! EVERYONE: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. FRANCIS: Yeah. He's right. RANDOM: Look out! RANDOM: Careful. [clop clop clop clop clop clop clop] DEADLY DIRK: Right! Where were we? FRANCIS: Uhh, you were going to punch me. DEADLY DIRK: Oh, yeah. [C.F.G. and P.F.J. fight] " And yet another one (scene 17): " GIRL: Follow the Gourd! The Holy Gourd of Jerusalem! FOLLOWER: The Gourd! HARRY: Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us! ARTHUR: It is a shoe! It is a shoe! HARRY: It's a sandal! ARTHUR: No, it isn't! GIRL: Cast it away! ARTHUR: Put it on! " Full quotes can be found at http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/LifeOfBrian/brian.html -- Yaron (who runs FreeBSD). = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chen Shapira) wrote: Comparing linux to warez... well there is one american linux vendor, which sells warez, put it into nasty installer and claims that it is selling linux distro. Nowadys, there is one French one, too. Ouch. The fact that Debian Gnu/Linux is the only free speach distribution doesn't make RedHat and Mandrake illegal software trafficers. Not any more than Sun is. Distro flamewars are joyful to participate and painful to read. If someone feels that he/she/it can flame specific distro, please, write it down, and send it to me. I will put it somewhere, so that we should be able to flame by reference. flame In RPM based distros case, we are already albe to flame by name... /flame flame in case of Sun CC, it is flame by value /flame -- -- Omer Mussaev051-308-214 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] systems programmer, Mercury Interactive/RND/Conduct/core = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Chen Shapira wrote: Ouch. The fact that Debian Gnu/Linux is the only free speach distribution doesn't make RedHat and Mandrake illegal software trafficers. Not any more than Sun is. Some of us treat propriety software as uniform badness. This isn't strictly true (notice me disagreeing with RMS): propriety software which makes it intentionally hard to write free alternatives/complementary software is more evil. But, I must say I think that all those you mention, being involved in non-free software trafficking, are an evil. It just so happens Red Hat and Mandrake do enough good things (e.g., funding free software) and Sun is doing not so bad things (sticking to standards so you can interface them with free alternatives), that they are better then MS. -- Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stanislav Malyshev a.k.a Frodo) wrote: OM Third - the problem with Mandrake is that they suck. Do they? Did you experience this personally or somebody told you? A friend of a friend of neighbour of my sister told me. Dont tell anyone. Was it good or at least refreshing? I had better sex in my life. It was a pleasure to remove the partiiton, though. OM is somewhat different - RH are half-ignorant. Instead of taking OM existing market models, they went on and invented their own. Had OM they use Debian-like infrastructure, they would Oh, sure, if you'd open new Linux company, you'd do everything different. BTW, why didn't you? You mean that you"d preffer your trolls answered by payed profferssional, and not me? Good:) OM be damn good. Oh, and we'll be still waiting for RH 2.1 to release... :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]\/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev/\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425 /\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/whois:!SM8333 -- -- Omer Mussaev051-308-214 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] systems programmer, Mercury Interactive/RND/Conduct/core = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
Hi netters, Omer Musaev wrote about the "half-ignorance" of RH, concluding his remarks writing about the inability of RH to produce good software. Omer could you please give us few examples on bad results using RH? Yanai == = Yanai Krutman-- Senior Clinical Physicist = = Soroka University Medical Center -- Department of Oncology = =POBox 151 -- Be'er Sheva 84101 -- Israel= = voice: 00972-76403593/6400682 -- fax: 00972-7-6232336 = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] = == = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Yanai Krutman wrote: Hi netters, Omer Musaev wrote about the "half-ignorance" of RH, concluding his remarks writing about the inability of RH to produce good software. Omer could you please give us few examples on bad results using RH? As the people in Aduva, and possibly all Debian addicts will tell you, "Kakha lo bonim khoma". Red Hat is a mishmash of packages which are too often badly coordinated with suboptimal defaults. Sadly in a way, it's the de-facto standard in today's market, so use Mandrake instead of RedHat as the "best of the average", but if I was to build my entire company's network and servers from scratch, there is a good chance RPMs would have been left outside the door and Debian would have ruled. -- Ira Abramov (@- Gnu/Linux, Free Speech, RFC 1855 whois: IA58 //\ Peace, Love, Music, Slow Food www.scso.com v_/_ Camels, Penguins, Giraffes, Cats = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Ira Abramov wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Yanai Krutman wrote:
Hi netters,
Omer Musaev wrote about the "half-ignorance" of RH, concluding
his remarks writing about the inability of RH to produce good
software. Omer could you please give us few examples on bad results
using RH?
As the people in Aduva, and possibly all Debian addicts will tell you,
"Kakha lo bonim khoma". Red Hat is a mishmash of packages which are too
often badly coordinated with suboptimal defaults. Sadly in a way, it's
the de-facto standard in today's market, so use Mandrake instead of
RedHat as the "best of the average", but if I was to build my entire
company's network and servers from scratch, there is a good chance RPMs
would have been left outside the door and Debian would have ruled.
As long as we're Red Hat - bashing, let me mention my own pet peeve, which
is a kind of promo to tommorows lecture, being about Python and system
administration. Red Hat did the smart thing, by building their installer
with Python. The did the horribly idiotic thing of: breaking the Python
used for the installer in horrible ways so it is hard to use for
independant scripts *and* putting it in /usr/bin, so it is the default.
Now, you can't uninstall it ('cause it's the basis for the whole system),
so you have to build a good python from sources into /usr/local/bin. No
problems with that, except that it is *very dangerous* to have two Pythons
(or Perls) on your path -- you occasionally get the wrong one.
This is workaroundable in real life -- you build a Python in /usr/local
and bear with it (I did it when I had to work with Red Hat), but it's a
horror. So I definitely agree with Ira -- get Mandrake, so you'll be able
to program Python in peace. And if you don't know how to program Python,
just come to my lecture tommorow.
--
Moshe Zadka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html
http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com
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Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
I really don't understand this whole flame RedHat deal. I run it in my room as a workstation.. very stable and i hardly ever had any problems with "package mismatch", all of Knet's Servers farm run on RedHat including the NOC, and till now it's very stable. personally.. my choice to put on those servers wouldn't have even been linux, it would have been FreeBSD.. but you need a certian level of uniformity which can only be found in a resonable way in RPMs, with all the respect for Debian. Personally i think that when you build a server farm you need to keep everything generic, a good admin is judged by his ability to leave an easy to 'grasp' system, not only a good/stable one. And yes.. I may be an ignorant here, coming from the networking area and a pseudo-linux-newbie and everything. just a personal opinion, flame me please if you think i'm wrong. ISM = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
IA As the people in Aduva, and possibly all Debian addicts will tell you, IA "Kakha lo bonim khoma". Red Hat is a mishmash of packages which are too Yeah. And if you ask Hapoel fans about how good Maccabi plays, you'd get best opinion available :) IA often badly coordinated with suboptimal defaults. Sadly in a way, it's IA the de-facto standard in today's market, so use Mandrake instead of IA RedHat as the "best of the average", but if I was to build my entire IA company's network and servers from scratch, there is a good chance RPMs IA would have been left outside the door and Debian would have ruled. Judging that "latest RPMs" is a common phrase, while "latest deb's" are rather rare at least, I wouldn't take on myself such things. And I installed RH on many stations for now, having no problems. OK, sometimes they go for "most easy for dumb user" settings, but I can easily fix it. And I used Mandrake to, and really saw no glaring changes. OK, they get out new versions faster (less testing or harder working? don't know), but that's it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Itamar S Maltz wrote: I really don't understand this whole flame RedHat deal. I run it in my room as a workstation.. very stable and i hardly ever had any problems with "package mismatch", all of Knet's Servers farm run on RedHat including the NOC, and till now it's very stable. we're not complaining about stability here, we're talking about tight configurations, smarter managability (expecially for clusters or large installations!) level of uniformity which can only be found in a resonable way in RPMs, with all the respect for Debian. Personally i think that when did you ever TRY Debian? what is "non-uniform" about it? Debian is the most standard thing there is, it's almost a "Meta-OS" as Adi Stav once put it to me, as you can install and manage any OS with it with more ease. no wonder the most popular HURD ditro is Debian/HURD. no reason why even SlowAris won't use it too. I just don't see Debian/Solaris in the SUN catalaogs soon, they won't like the ring of it :) you build a server farm you need to keep everything generic, a good again, what's more generic about RHAT than Debian? ISM Everybody's talking 'bout Stallmanism, Communism, fascism, standardisms, thisism, thatism, ism, ism, ism. All I am saying, is give Debian a chance :-) -- Ira Abramov (@- Gnu/Linux, Free Speech, RFC 1855 whois: IA58 //\ Peace, Love, Music, Slow Food www.scso.com v_/_ Camels, Penguins, Giraffes, Cats = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
Hi, Itamar! On Thu, Jun 01, 2000 at 10:27:53PM +0300, you wrote the following: I really don't understand this whole flame RedHat deal. I run it in my room as a workstation.. very stable and i hardly ever had any problems with "package mismatch", all of Knet's Servers farm run on RedHat including the NOC, and till now it's very stable. People who haven't tried Linux also claim that Windows works for them and is stable enough. (Well, at least some of them.) Debian -- like Linux itself -- is something that you try, get hooked, and never look back. This will be my sole contribution to this thread. :-) (By the way, Debian 2.2 is on the way, and I'm trying to find a simple cheap PCI SCSI card to hook my CD-R to so I can supply y'all with Debian CDs as usual. I've recently lost my hardware dealer (he's gone to work elsewhere), so if anyone has suggestions of a good hardware store in Jerusalem to make friends with, I'll be very glad to hear.) -- Alex Shnitman| http://www.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] +--- http://alexsh.hectic.netUIN 188956PGP key on web page E1 F2 7B 6C A0 31 80 28 63 B8 02 BA 65 C7 8B BA *Real* programmers use cat a.out No way, /real/ programmers use zcat a.out 'cause you can type faster that way. -- from a Slashdot discussion = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
Hi, As the people in Aduva, and possibly all Debian addicts will tell you, "Kakha lo bonim khoma". Red Hat is a mishmash of packages which are too often badly coordinated with suboptimal defaults. Sadly in a way, it's the de-facto standard in today's market, so use Mandrake instead of RedHat as the "best of the average", but if I was to build my entire company's network and servers from scratch, there is a good chance RPMs would have been left outside the door and Debian would have ruled. Do you mean for example RH 6.0 mistake(s)? Why SGI selected RH as their carrier to implement the 4 Intel based LinuX machine? I am working with RH since August 98. We have a program which calculates ionizing radiation distribution in order to determine the optimal treatment in radiotherapy. The program is written in LISP and we have an experimental version ranning in a Intel based system. We have some troubles on how to translate CT-image into gray scale but it was solved by a script in C. The way from RH 5.1 to RH 6.0 was quite problematic, but from that version to RH 6.1 was smoothly and now we are preparing RH 6.2. I hope without problems! Suggestions?,! I am leaving now! Would like to hear from you Tomorrow! Yanai [EMAIL PROTECTED] = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Yanai Krutman wrote: Why SGI selected RH as their carrier to implement the 4 Intel based LinuX machine? they claim their SGI-Linux is distribuution-free, but if you want it auto installed (i,e, not patch things manually and all) they have a self-installer for Red Hat, but other distros "planned". -- Ira Abramov (@- Gnu/Linux, Free Speech, RFC 1855 whois: IA58 //\ Peace, Love, Music, Slow Food www.scso.com v_/_ Camels, Penguins, Giraffes, Cats = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
Alex Shnitman wrote: Hi, Itamar! .. so if anyone has suggestions of a good hardware store in Jerusalem to make friends with, I'll be very glad to hear.) -- Alex Shnitman| http://www.debian.org Ever heard of Aba Computers? Not a good hardware store, but they may have a cheap PCI SCSI adapter for you and your Debian friends. Just don't forget my RedHat 6.2 (wink, wink)... = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My distro is better ( was RE: need 4 RH-6.2)
Actually.. I'm hardly a RH advocate, just wanted to read a decent debate about the subject, and yeah.. i've tried it.. still do.. run it on one of the machines here. i was expecting one of you to bring slackware on to the topic. oh well. Generic means for me atleast, out-of-the-box.. want a proxy. here *clickly click* there you go. BTW: i tried, i didn't got hooked. and the only thing i always go back to is FreeBSD, just cuz i really like chuck. the red hat symbol is really nice too, i got a thing for red things. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
