Netbook without windows
Hi, I'm looking to buy a netbook, and wants to find out - Did anyone managed to get a computer without windows? I want something basic, preferably less than 2500 NIS, and plans to run Ubuntu Netbooks and use it to surf the Internet, etc. Anyone know a place that sells computers to suit me? -- Regards, amichay. http://wiki.dc9723.org/ and dc9...@lists.dc9723.org mailing list co-webmaster, Web developer, and a beginning white-hat hacker. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
According to http://www.tgspot.co.il/hp-mini-5102-launch-in-israel/ - this model should do the trick. However it comes with SuSE and maybe proprietary drivers. So if you settle for a distro with less bugs than your preferred one, you should be OK with this model :-) -- Shimi 2011/3/2 amichay p. k. am1chay@gmail.com Hi, I'm looking to buy a netbook, and wants to find out - Did anyone managed to get a computer without windows? I want something basic, preferably less than 2500 NIS, and plans to run Ubuntu Netbooks and use it to surf the Internet, etc. Anyone know a place that sells computers to suit me? -- Regards, amichay. http://wiki.dc9723.org/ and dc9...@lists.dc9723.org mailing list co-webmaster, Web developer, and a beginning white-hat hacker. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
Try: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronicsfield-keywords=dell+ubuntu+netbookx=0y=0#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronicsfield-keywords=ubuntu+netbookrh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Aubuntu+netbook 2011/3/2 amichay p. k. am1chay@gmail.com Hi, I'm looking to buy a netbook, and wants to find out - Did anyone managed to get a computer without windows? I want something basic, preferably less than 2500 NIS, and plans to run Ubuntu Netbooks and use it to surf the Internet, etc. Anyone know a place that sells computers to suit me? -- Regards, amichay. http://wiki.dc9723.org/ and dc9...@lists.dc9723.orghttps://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0ui=1to=dc9...@lists.dc9723.orgmailing list co-webmaster, Web developer, and a beginning white-hat hacker. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.ilhttps://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0ui=1to=Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Tzadik ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
On Wednesday 02 March 2011 10:40:14 amichay p. k. wrote: Hi, I'm looking to buy a netbook, and wants to find out - Did anyone managed to get a computer without windows? I want something basic, preferably less than 2500 NIS, and plans to run Ubuntu Netbooks and use it to surf the Internet, etc. Anyone know a place that sells computers to suit me? Mediatek, in Haifa (04)881-3300, sells Dell computers -- mostly the Latitude series, but they'll supply anything. Dell has certain models of both netbooks and conventional laptops that they advertise available for Linux. I do not think that means that other models do not support Llinux, only that it governs which disk they give you. Moeover, the price of a Dell computer is the same whether with and out the usual Windows installation. To me, that means one is better off to take the Windows for the sake of the legal disk, which is useful e.g. for use in a virtual machine; you can get a Ubuntu disk by yourself. I have been buying computers from them for many years, including a Dell laptop that is running openSuSE. If you call Mediatek, ask for Ilan. Please mention my name. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Stan Goodman stan.good...@hashkedim.comwrote: To me, that means one is better off to take the Windows for the sake of the legal disk, which is useful e.g. for use in a virtual machine; I'm not a lawyer, but I think that the Windows version you get on a laptop is an OEM version. That is it costs less since you can use it on the specific hardware you bought, but not on anything else. So I'm not sure how legal will it be to use it on a VM. (Maybe MS won't let you do that by EULA, but the EULA is illegal, however I think that the OEM version must run on the hardware it was installed on). ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
That actually depends. The last time I bought a laptop with Windows installed on it I made sure to get installation discs as well. I've never tried installing it anywhere else (it's Vista) but I don't see why it won't be possible and legal. And I never compared prices, but I think computers with preinstalled Windows are the same price, maybe a little more expensive. It has something to do with Microsoft not wanting vendors to sell OS-free computers for fear that people would install bootleg versions of Windows. 2011/3/2 Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Stan Goodman stan.good...@hashkedim.comwrote: To me, that means one is better off to take the Windows for the sake of the legal disk, which is useful e.g. for use in a virtual machine; I'm not a lawyer, but I think that the Windows version you get on a laptop is an OEM version. That is it costs less since you can use it on the specific hardware you bought, but not on anything else. So I'm not sure how legal will it be to use it on a VM. (Maybe MS won't let you do that by EULA, but the EULA is illegal, however I think that the OEM version must run on the hardware it was installed on). ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Mordecha Behar mordecha.be...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: That actually depends. The last time I bought a laptop with Windows installed on it I made sure to get installation discs as well. The fact you got installation discs, doesn't mean its legal/permitted by MS to install them on any computer you want. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
I think you are allowed to transfer the system a set number of times, maybe three. Of course it can only be installed on one system at any given time. So, with my installation disc I should be allowed to install it on another computer, since it's no longer installed on my laptop. Again, I'm not a lawyer either, but I think that that's the general gist of the rules. On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Elazar Leibovich elaz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Mordecha Behar mordecha.be...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: That actually depends. The last time I bought a laptop with Windows installed on it I made sure to get installation discs as well. The fact you got installation discs, doesn't mean its legal/permitted by MS to install them on any computer you want. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
On Mar 2, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Elazar Leibovich wrote: The fact you got installation discs, doesn't mean its legal/ permitted by MS to install them on any computer you want. It depends. From what I understand of the EULA (which you can easily find on their site if you want to read it) if you buy an OEM version of Windows from Microsoft, you can install it on another computer if the one you bought it with is replaced by the new one. For example, if your motherboard dies, and you buy a new computer instead of a new motherboard. However it is not legal to install it on another computer if the first one still exists or has it installed. It's also legal to install it in a virtual machine as long as that virtual machine is run only on the computer it was bought for, and only is used by the person who is using the computer. So those virtualization packages which let you run multiple monitors and keyboards require a separate license for each virtual machine. The OEM versions included by a manufacturer, e.g. HP, are different. What is included and how is up to them. Most only include an install partition on the hard drive, and install Windows from that. They usually include a program to make install disks, but the disks can only install on that particular model (it checks BIOS signature) and wipe any drive they are used on. Usually these are not upgradable. For example we bought a Packard Bell computer instead of an HP because HP included 32 bit Windows and we needed 64. To get it on the HP we would of had to buy the full retail version. The OEM can include a sicker with a magic number to do an install if the BIOS signature changes, but they cost more and are often no longer done. Note that the BIOS specific versions of Windows will not install in a virtual machine without the magic number. As far as buying a laptop without Windows, I highly recommend against it. You are not going to save very much, probably around 100 NIS, and it really lowers the resale/gift value. It's just a question of whether or not you think you will sell it before it becomes so obsolete no one wants it. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
The OEM also states that you can buy a computer with Windows pre-installed, and if you don't agree with the OEM, and do not use Windows at all (i.e. you wipe out Windows and install another OS), you have the right to return the disks and get a refund from Microsoft for the value of Windows. People have actually received this money. I think there are court cases pending against Microsoft because they make this process difficult. On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:50 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 2, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Elazar Leibovich wrote: The fact you got installation discs, doesn't mean its legal/permitted by MS to install them on any computer you want. It depends. From what I understand of the EULA (which you can easily find on their site if you want to read it) if you buy an OEM version of Windows from Microsoft, you can install it on another computer if the one you bought it with is replaced by the new one. For example, if your motherboard dies, and you buy a new computer instead of a new motherboard. However it is not legal to install it on another computer if the first one still exists or has it installed. It's also legal to install it in a virtual machine as long as that virtual machine is run only on the computer it was bought for, and only is used by the person who is using the computer. So those virtualization packages which let you run multiple monitors and keyboards require a separate license for each virtual machine. The OEM versions included by a manufacturer, e.g. HP, are different. What is included and how is up to them. Most only include an install partition on the hard drive, and install Windows from that. They usually include a program to make install disks, but the disks can only install on that particular model (it checks BIOS signature) and wipe any drive they are used on. Usually these are not upgradable. For example we bought a Packard Bell computer instead of an HP because HP included 32 bit Windows and we needed 64. To get it on the HP we would of had to buy the full retail version. The OEM can include a sicker with a magic number to do an install if the BIOS signature changes, but they cost more and are often no longer done. Note that the BIOS specific versions of Windows will not install in a virtual machine without the magic number. As far as buying a laptop without Windows, I highly recommend against it. You are not going to save very much, probably around 100 NIS, and it really lowers the resale/gift value. It's just a question of whether or not you think you will sell it before it becomes so obsolete no one wants it. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Tzadik ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
On Wednesday 02 March 2011 18:39:20 Tzadik Vanderhoof wrote: The OEM also states that you can buy a computer with Windows pre-installed, and if you don't agree with the OEM, and do not use Windows at all (i.e. you wipe out Windows and install another OS), you have the right to return the disks and get a refund from Microsoft for the value of Windows. People have actually received this money. I think there are court cases pending against Microsoft because they make this process difficult. On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:50 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 2, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Elazar Leibovich wrote: The fact you got installation discs, doesn't mean its legal/permitted by MS to install them on any computer you want. It depends. From what I understand of the EULA (which you can easily find on their site if you want to read it) if you buy an OEM version of Windows from Microsoft, you can install it on another computer if the one you bought it with is replaced by the new one. For example, if your motherboard dies, and you buy a new computer instead of a new motherboard. However it is not legal to install it on another computer if the first one still exists or has it installed. It's also legal to install it in a virtual machine as long as that virtual machine is run only on the computer it was bought for, and only is used by the person who is using the computer. So those virtualization packages which let you run multiple monitors and keyboards require a separate license for each virtual machine. The OEM versions included by a manufacturer, e.g. HP, are different. What is included and how is up to them. Most only include an install partition on the hard drive, and install Windows from that. They usually include a program to make install disks, but the disks can only install on that particular model (it checks BIOS signature) and wipe any drive they are used on. Usually these are not upgradable. For example we bought a Packard Bell computer instead of an HP because HP included 32 bit Windows and we needed 64. To get it on the HP we would of had to buy the full retail version. The OEM can include a sicker with a magic number to do an install if the BIOS signature changes, but they cost more and are often no longer done. Note that the BIOS specific versions of Windows will not install in a virtual machine without the magic number. As far as buying a laptop without Windows, I highly recommend against it. You are not going to save very much, probably around 100 NIS, and it really lowers the resale/gift value. It's just a question of whether or not you think you will sell it before it becomes so obsolete no one wants it. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. All very interesting. I suspect that a cometent lawyer could make a case that the combination of the limitations described in this thread (which seem to me reasonable in themselves) coupled with MS policies enforced to punish or discourage vendors that wish to sell computers sans Windows, amount to restraint of trade, and are therefore themselves illegal. I think the same attorney could also demonstrate the same for the regioning policy for DVDs. Such a lawyer would have streets named for him in cities all over the world, not to mention roses. But all that is a horse of a different wheelbase, and not what the OP wanted to know. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Netbook without windows
All very interesting. I suspect that a cometent lawyer could make a case that the combination of the limitations described in this thread (which seem to me reasonable in themselves) coupled with MS policies enforced to punish or discourage vendors that wish to sell computers sans Windows, amount to restraint of trade, and are therefore themselves illegal. I think the same attorney could also demonstrate the same for the regioning policy for DVDs. Such a lawyer would have streets named for him in cities all over the world, not to mention roses. Not really. Microsoft gives computer stores a price break if they agree that all computers they sell will be sold with an operating system. The store can forgo the price break if they wish, or install a free operating system or include a CD of one or sell a competing operating system. There is no requirement for them to install a Microsoft product. Or they can install Windows XP, Vista or 7, from a recent disk without a magic number. This gives the user a 30 day free trial. There are plenty of non Microsoft products to choose from from FreeDos, Linux, BSD variants, UNIX (as in Solaris, etc), and so on. In fact, I'm sure if a computer store emailed the Ubuntu people and told them that they sold 20 computers a month without operating systems, they would get 20 Ubuntu CDs a month from their free CD project. So I fail to see why Microsoft is restraining trade, and am actually glad the policy exists. It encourages people to try fee operating systems and discourages the use of pirated ones. Let's face it, here in Israel, how many people who buy computers without an operating system are going to put something besides Windows on it anyway? Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
