Re: ntp

[Shaul Karl]

> 
> 
> 
>   Hi,
> 
> 
> 
>The way I see this being properly implemented is the following:
> 
>Every ISP provides on one of it's routers, a NTP service for it's
> clients. This server can synchronize both with ntp.ac.il, and
> ntp.iix.net.il. Then, the ISP will make that server known to it's clients
> (prefferably using ntp.some.isp.here format for clarity).
> 
>Thus, it will allow to have major NTP servers synch against ntp.ac.il,
> and ntp.iix.net.il, and the clients of each ISP can synch to the ISPs ntp
> server.
> 
>If accuracy is of great importance, ISPs may want to synch their time
> servers with other NTP sources world wide. Any respectable NSP today (I am
> talking about people like UUnet, MCI/WorldComm, AT&T and such) have a NTP
> service available for it's clients.
> 


How will you convince bezeqint to have its own ntp server?


> 
> --Ariel
> 
> --
> Ariel Biener
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
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Re: ntp

[Ariel Biener]

On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Shaul Karl wrote:
> 
> How will you convince bezeqint to have its own ntp server?

There is nothing to convince them about. It's for their own good. Other
ISPs already use one of their routers as NTP server.

The fact BezeqInt tend to not cate about netiquette at all (for example,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] goes to /dev/null) is not something I can change.

The ones who can change their attitude are their clients, who can vote
them down by moving to other providers.

--Ariel

P.S. The above is my personal opinion, and doesn't represent in any way
the thoughts or policies of any of the bodies I am employed by.

> 
> 
> >
> > --Ariel
> >
> > --
> > Ariel Biener
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >
> >
> > =
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> > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> 
> --
>   
>   Shaul Karl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 

--
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Re: NTP

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:

> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?

Have you tried il.pool.ntp.org ?

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Re: NTP

[Constantine Shulyupin]

There is only one inactive server on il.pool.ntp.org, see
http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/il
try asia.pool.ntp.org, europe.pool.ntp.org, anorth-america.pool.ntp.org

On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Tzafrir Cohen  wrote:
> On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
>
>> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>
> Have you tried il.pool.ntp.org ?
>
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Re: NTP

[Baruch Siach]

Hi Geoff,

On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?

ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).

baruch

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

1. If you are running ntp daemons on your linux machines then use ntpq to
query what it thinks it synchs with and its synch status.
2. Use traceroute with UDP port 123 to see whether you manage to reach the
server you pick.


On 2 May 2014 07:19, Baruch Siach  wrote:

> Hi Geoff,
>
> On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
> > 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>
> ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).
>
> baruch
>
> --
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> Systems
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>- bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
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Re: NTP

[E.S. Rosenberg]

I've never had trouble with NTP... my guess is your ISP is blocking or
interfering, get a level 2 or better rep. they should be able to unblock it
if you make enough noise...
שבת שלום


2014-05-02 9:24 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira :

> 1. If you are running ntp daemons on your linux machines then use ntpq to
> query what it thinks it synchs with and its synch status.
> 2. Use traceroute with UDP port 123 to see whether you manage to reach the
> server you pick.
>
>
> On 2 May 2014 07:19, Baruch Siach  wrote:
>
>> Hi Geoff,
>>
>> On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 09:45:45PM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
>> > 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>>
>> ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).
>>
>> baruch
>>
>> --
>>  http://baruch.siach.name/blog/  ~. .~   Tk Open
>> Systems
>>
>> =}ooO--U--Ooo{=
>>- bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
>>
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Re: NTP

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi all,


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Geoff Shang  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have an array of devices and computers.  Two Linux machines, a win7
> box, an iMac, a Macbook Pro, an iPad, an iPad Mini, two iPods, three
> iPhones and two Nexus 7s.
>
> We have Internet service from Bezeqint via Bezeq DSL.  We got a new router
> in February, which will become relevant shortly.
>
> all our devices are configured to keep time synched automatically.  For
> the windows 7 machine, we installed a third-party time-keeping software
> instead o fallowing Windows to sync once a week.
>
> all was working fine until I realised a couple of weeks ago that the
> windows machine was over 30 seconds slow.  Due to the time-keeping software
> installed, we were able to see that it hadn't managed to sync the time
> since 7 April.
>
> I initially blamed Windows and the fact that I was running software that
> hadn't been updated in ten years.  But installing a windows port of NTP
> didn't fix things.
>
> I then realised that my Linux machines weren't keeping time either.   They
> simply hadn't drifted as far, as Linux is better at keeping time.  The macs
> weren't either.
>
> To cut a long lot of investigations short, I determined that I couldn't
> sync time using ntpd on port 123.  The only way I could get time sync to
> work was to use ntpdate with an unprivileged port.
>
> I did some searching, and found a post (that I apparently didn't bookmark)
> that suggested that some sites block NTP traffic in order to prevent
> certain types of DOS attacks.  Users at such sites are expected to use NTP
> server(s) located within the network.
>
> Since I tried a range of servers in a range of locations with no luck, I
> wondered if Bezeqint were doing the same thing.
>
> I managed to find time.bezeqint.net but it doesn't seem to work either.
>
> I called Bezeqint and had some difficulty explaining my problem to them in
> English.  When I did finally manage to get someone who knew what NTP is,
> they thought it might be  a problem with the router.  While this is
> possible, we got the router almost two months before the problem started.
>
> I expect I might get a similar answer if I call them back again, and if I
> do call Bezeq about it, I expect them to blame Bezeqint and so-on.
>
> Since nothing has changed in the last two weeks, I thought I might do
> better by asking here.
>
> So I'm wondering:
>
> 1.  Is anyone else having this problem?
>
> 2.  Has anyone found a server that works?
>
> 3.  Any other ideas I've not thought of?
>
>
I've had a similar problem on my laptop and I solved it by running "ntpdate
-u" (Where "-u" tells it to use the unprivileged port which is also used by
the "-d" flag which worked) instead of a regular "ntpdate". I'm telling it
to inform everybody.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish


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Re: NTP

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your responses.

On Fri, 2 May 2014, Shlomi Fish wrote:


I've had a similar problem on my laptop and I solved it by running "ntpdate
-u" (Where "-u" tells it to use the unprivileged port which is also used by
the "-d" flag which worked) instead of a regular "ntpdate". I'm telling it
to inform everybody.


This is what I've been doing, but it's not really a substitute for 
something that should be working, and was until 4 weeks ago.


On Thu, 1 May 2014, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:


Have you tried il.pool.ntp.org ?


Yes.  There's only one server on it, which does appear to be working.

# ntpdate -q 0.il.pool.ntp.org
server 212.199.182.150, stratum 2, offset -1.246416, delay 0.03937
 4 May 12:55:52 ntpdate[12996]: step time server 212.199.182.150 offset 
-1.246416 sec

I'm surprised that ntp.iix.net.il isn't in the pool.

On Fri, 2 May 2014, Baruch Siach wrote:


ntp.iix.net.il works for me from home (012), and work (BezeqBL).


good to know.  At least this tells me it's not an ISP-wide issue.

On Fri, 2 May 2014, Amos Shapira wrote:


1. If you are running ntp daemons on your linux machines then use ntpq to
query what it thinks it synchs with and its synch status.


I've done this.

# ntpq -p
 remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
 Israel-IX.iix.n 192.115.209.50   2 u 1415   6400.0000.000   0.000

Interestingly, an check earlier in the day suggests it did get through 
once.


# ntpq -p
 remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
 Israel-IX.iix.n 192.115.209.50   2 u  188   644   14.213  -153.40   0.004

Here's what the iMac shows:

$ ntpq -p
 remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
 time.euro.apple .XFAC.  16 u-  68m00.0000.000   0.000


2. Use traceroute with UDP port 123 to see whether you manage to reach the
server you pick.


Ah!  This is what I wanted.

The manpage for traceroute is a bit confusing to me, but I tried this 
command which I think should tell me what I want to know:


# traceroute -p 123 ntp.iix.net.il
traceroute to ntp.iix.net.il (192.114.62.250), 30 hops max, 60 byte 
packets

 1  router.home (192.168.2.1)  1.988 ms  1.690 ms  1.534 ms
 2  bzq-109-64-64-1.red.bezeqint.net (109.64.64.1)  14.809 ms  14.740 ms  
14.603 ms
 3  bzq-179-14-70.static.bezeqint.net (212.179.14.70)  14.594 ms  14.488 ms  
14.607 ms
 4  bzq-25-77-6.static.bezeqint.net (212.25.77.6)  18.304 ms  18.147 ms  17.891 
ms
 5  bzq-219-189-102.cablep.bezeqint.net (62.219.189.102)  15.135 ms  15.056 ms  
14.916 ms
 6  * * *
 7  * * *
 8  * * *

I tried from an external server that is able to sync and reached the 
requested host.  So this would indicate that Bezeqint is blocking it.


On Fri, 2 May 2014, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:


I've never had trouble with NTP... my guess is your ISP is blocking or
interfering, get a level 2 or better rep. they should be able to unblock it
if you make enough noise...


I think you're right.  We're paying them enough for service.

Thanks,
Geoff.


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Re: NTP

[geoffrey mendelson]

On 5/4/2014 2:11 PM, Geoff Shang wrote:

Joining this late, but does anyone know if there is an NTP device driver 
for an android phone? You can get a new Android 4 phone for 500 NIS, and 
used ones range in price from that to nothing (especially ones with 
cracked screens).


TIA.

Geoff.

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

You mean you want to use the Android phone as an ntp server?

For ntp client, there is clocksync:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.org.amip.ClockSync

It requires root in order to sung the clock for less than 30 seconds.
On 4 May 2014 14:27, "geoffrey mendelson" 
wrote:

> On 5/4/2014 2:11 PM, Geoff Shang wrote:
>
> Joining this late, but does anyone know if there is an NTP device driver
> for an android phone? You can get a new Android 4 phone for 500 NIS, and
> used ones range in price from that to nothing (especially ones with cracked
> screens).
>
> TIA.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>
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Re: NTP

[geoffrey mendelson]

On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:


You mean you want to use the Android phone as an ntp server?




Yes. It has GPS hardware, runs linux and has wifi. Should be enough to 
make your own GPS derived stratum 1 server.


Geoff.

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

Umm. Nice idea. Perhaps this? http://time-server.android.informer.com/



On 4 May 2014 18:44, geoffrey mendelson  wrote:

> On 5/4/2014 5:17 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>>
>> You mean you want to use the Android phone as an ntp server?
>>
>>
>>
> Yes. It has GPS hardware, runs linux and has wifi. Should be enough to
> make your own GPS derived stratum 1 server.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


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Re: NTP

[geoffrey mendelson]

On 5/5/2014 7:41 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:

Umm. Nice idea. Perhaps this? http://time-server.android.informer.com/


Thanks, I saw that and asked them if it will use sync to the GPS in the 
phone as a source. I'm waiting for an answer.


Geoff.

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

Please update here with the respons.


On 5 May 2014 08:06, geoffrey mendelson  wrote:

> On 5/5/2014 7:41 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> Umm. Nice idea. Perhaps this? http://time-server.android.informer.com/
>>
>>
>>  Thanks, I saw that and asked them if it will use sync to the GPS in the
> phone as a source. I'm waiting for an answer.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


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Re: NTP

[geoffrey mendelson]

On 5/5/2014 8:13 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:

Please update here with the respons.


It does not.

This is in reference to an NTP server Android App being able to access 
the GPS hardware for time sync. Since most (all?) Android phones have 
GPS chips and Wifi, run Linux, etc, it would be a cheap way to get a 
stratum 1 time server without spending a lot of money.


Geoff.

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to get a
good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing does.
What does it do if not that?

It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?


On 7 May 2014 14:27, geoffrey mendelson  wrote:

> On 5/5/2014 8:13 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> Please update here with the respons.
>>
>>  It does not.
>
> This is in reference to an NTP server Android App being able to access the
> GPS hardware for time sync. Since most (all?) Android phones have GPS chips
> and Wifi, run Linux, etc, it would be a cheap way to get a stratum 1 time
> server without spending a lot of money.
>
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


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Re: NTP

[geoffrey mendelson]

On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to 
get a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server 
thing does. What does it do if not that?


The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which 
syncs to other NTP servers.


It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?



My opinion too.

I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)

Geoff.

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

I posted a question in
http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/68996/using-android-gps-as-ntp-refclock


On 8 May 2014 10:56, geoffrey mendelson  wrote:

> On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to get
>> a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing does.
>> What does it do if not that?
>>
>
> The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which
> syncs to other NTP servers.
>
>
>> It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?
>>
>>
> My opinion too.
>
> I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)
>
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>


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Re: NTP

[E.S. Rosenberg]

One possible explanation may be that due to the very hard time cellphones
have to get and maintain GPS locks (which is the reason we have
technologies like AGPS) makes it impractical


2014-05-08 14:43 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira :

> I posted a question in
> http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/68996/using-android-gps-as-ntp-refclock
>
>
> On 8 May 2014 10:56, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
>
>> On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to
>>> get a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing
>>> does. What does it do if not that?
>>>
>>
>> The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which
>> syncs to other NTP servers.
>>
>>
>>> It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?
>>>
>>>
>> My opinion too.
>>
>> I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)
>>
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
>> Jerusalem Israel.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

Doesn't make sense to me:

1. The NTP server only needs the time signal, not the location (which
requires 4 satellites to be accurate), so even a signal from a single
satellite should be sufficient.
2. "getting a signal lock" is mostly a matter of having an up to date
satellite position almanac and recent location (within hundreds of
kilometers) in order to find the 4 required satellites. Finding the first
satellite is usually very quick.
3. Once the phone knows where it is, it's capable of keeping track of a car
moving at over 100 km/h for hours in order to update Google Maps and
friends. So the "keeping up" part is a solved problem, even if it was an
issue for the context of this thread.

Besides - the information should be there (the accurate time is a crucial
part of the positioning process). The main question from where I stand now
is how does Android provide access to the information (which API and was it
added to the multitude of reference clocks that the standard NTP software
comes with).

--Amos



On 8 May 2014 15:20, E.S. Rosenberg  wrote:

> One possible explanation may be that due to the very hard time cellphones
> have to get and maintain GPS locks (which is the reason we have
> technologies like AGPS) makes it impractical
>
>
> 2014-05-08 14:43 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira :
>
>>  I posted a question in
>> http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/68996/using-android-gps-as-ntp-refclock
>>
>>
>> On 8 May 2014 10:56, geoffrey mendelson wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>>>
 Yeah I'm with you about taking advantage of the phone's GPS signal to
 get a good clock, and I thought that this is what this time-server thing
 does. What does it do if not that?

>>>
>>> The one I saw was just an Android port of the standard NTP server, which
>>> syncs to other NTP servers.
>>>
>>>
 It's weird that nothing does it yet. Any takers?


>>> My opinion too.
>>>
>>> I'd settle for an RS232 serial emulation over USB of the old GPSs. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Geoff.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
>>> Jerusalem Israel.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  [image: View my profile on LinkedIn]
>> 
>>
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>>
>


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Re: NTP

[Ehud Karni]

Hi All,

There are applications to update the time by GPS - e.g. Smart Time Sync
It needs root access. It does sync periodically (at most twice an hour).
Such an application together with NTP server application (there are a few)
makes a stratum 1 time server.

Ehud.

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Re: NTP

[geoffrey mendelson]

On 5/8/2014 3:39 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:

Doesn't make sense to me:

1. The NTP server only needs the time signal, not the location (which 
requires 4 satellites to be accurate), so even a signal from a single 
satellite should be sufficient.
2. "getting a signal lock" is mostly a matter of having an up to date 
satellite position almanac and recent location (within hundreds of 
kilometers) in order to find the 4 required satellites. Finding the 
first satellite is usually very quick.
3. Once the phone knows where it is, it's capable of keeping track of 
a car moving at over 100 km/h for hours in order to update Google Maps 
and friends. So the "keeping up" part is a solved problem, even if it 
was an issue for the context of this thread.


Besides - the information should be there (the accurate time is a 
crucial part of the positioning process). The main question from where 
I stand now is how does Android provide access to the information 
(which API and was it added to the multitude of reference clocks that 
the standard NTP software comes with).




Don't forget that most of the people using this (if not all), just want 
to timesync a LAN, and can stick said cellphone up against a window and 
leave it there.



Geoff.

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

+1 for Smart Time Sync + ntp server.
Now the perfectionist in me would still like to combine what it does with
an NTP daemon reference clock :)
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Re: NTP

[Ori Berger]

On 05/08/2014 04:25 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:

+1 for Smart Time Sync + ntp server.
Now the perfectionist in me would still like to combine what it does
with an NTP daemon reference clock :)


Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this 
use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it 
now for $35 in Amazon 
 
). Supported natively by ntpd 
, uses less power, does 
not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you 
with :)


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Re: NTP

[geoffrey mendelson]

Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for 
this use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can 
see it now for $35 in Amazon 
 
). Supported natively by ntpd 
, uses less power, 
does not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy 
on you with :)


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They only ship to the  US.

Since the software we found runs on Android 2.1 up, it should be pretty 
easy to find a used phone for less than that or free.


Geoff.

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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

Umm, thanks. I might try this connected to the cubox-i I plan to buy.
On 9 May 2014 17:16, "Ori Berger"  wrote:

> On 05/08/2014 04:25 PM, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
>> +1 for Smart Time Sync + ntp server.
>> Now the perfectionist in me would still like to combine what it does
>> with an NTP daemon reference clock :)
>>
>
> Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this
> use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it now
> for $35 in Amazon  Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> ). Supported natively by ntpd <
> http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, does
> not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you
> with :)
>
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Re: NTP

[Amos Shapira]

Which software? Smart Tome Sync?
On 9 May 2014 18:02, "geoffrey mendelson" 
wrote:

>
>  Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this
>> use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it now
>> for $35 in Amazon > Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> ). Supported natively by ntpd <
>> http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, does
>> not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you
>> with :)
>>
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>
> They only ship to the  US.
>
> Since the software we found runs on Android 2.1 up, it should be pretty
> easy to find a used phone for less than that or free.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
> Jerusalem Israel.
>
>
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Re: NTP

[E.S. Rosenberg]

eBay - less then 150 NIS and free int. shipping

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?&_nkw=GlobalSat+BU-353-S4+USB


שבת שלום,
Eliyahu - אליהו


2014-05-09 13:21 GMT+03:00 Amos Shapira :

> Which software? Smart Tome Sync?
> On 9 May 2014 18:02, "geoffrey mendelson" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>  Unless you already have an old smartphone that you want to keep for this
>>> use, look for a simple USB GPS receiver - between $20-$40 (I can see it now
>>> for $35 in Amazon >> Receiver-Black/dp/B008200LHW/ref=sr_1_1> ). Supported natively by ntpd <
>>> http://doc.ntp.org/4.2.4/drivers/driver20.html>, uses less power, does
>>> not cook your brain, and slightly less useful for the NSA to spy on you
>>> with :)
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>
>> They only ship to the  US.
>>
>> Since the software we found runs on Android 2.1 up, it should be pretty
>> easy to find a used phone for less than that or free.
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson 4X1GM/N3OWJ
>> Jerusalem Israel.
>>
>>
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>
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Re: NTP Question.

[Shaul Karl]

> Hi...
> 
> How can i setup a Linux RH 6.2 box to sync time with a Solaris 2.6 box. if
> not possible... then with another linux..
> (the Solaris is currently syncing with other Solarises.)
> 


As you have already hinted, you can set some machine, be it Solaris or Linux 
to be an ntp server and then have the other machines as its ntp clients. I do 
not know how easy this setting is, especially setting the server. Yet there is 
a great deal of documentation for the ntp package.
Assuming that each machine has an Internet connectivity, an easier solution 
might be to have all the machines as client for some accurate ntp server on 
the net.
Any other solutions?


> Thanks In Advnace.
> Benji
> 
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-- 

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Re: NTP Question.

[Shachar Shemesh]

As far as I remeber, the recommended NTP setup is to have one machine sync with
several servers on the internet, and have all other machines on the local network
sync with that machine. This does have some redundancy problems (i.e. - little
redundancy), but as NTP learns the drift and adjusts accordingly, I don't think
that is a major issue.

Shachar

Shaul Karl wrote:

> > Hi...
> >
> > How can i setup a Linux RH 6.2 box to sync time with a Solaris 2.6 box. if
> > not possible... then with another linux..
> > (the Solaris is currently syncing with other Solarises.)
> >
>
> As you have already hinted, you can set some machine, be it Solaris or Linux
> to be an ntp server and then have the other machines as its ntp clients. I do
> not know how easy this setting is, especially setting the server. Yet there is
> a great deal of documentation for the ntp package.
> Assuming that each machine has an Internet connectivity, an easier solution
> might be to have all the machines as client for some accurate ntp server on
> the net.
> Any other solutions?
>
> > Thanks In Advnace.
> > Benji
> >
> > =
> > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
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> --
>
> Shaul Karl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: NTP configuration

[Amos Shapira]

On 31/08/2007, Geoff Shang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've done a bit of DNS work and found the following which may or may not
> yield actual working servers:
>
> * ntp.netvision.net.il (2 addresses)
> * ntp.012.net.il
> * time.inter.net.il
> * time.bezeqint.net
>
> Anyone know if any of these are working public servers?  Anyone with
> suggestions of other servers to use?


Ask your ISP for their NTP servers. There is a good chance they have such
(Actcom (RIP) used to have).
Also ntp.huji.ac.il is a Stratum 1 server (which I had the privilege to
setup about 15 years ago). Maybe you can pull the list of peers from it to
find stratum-2 servers, or just use it directly.

--Amos

Re: NTP configuration

[Yedidyah Bar-David]

2007/9/1, Geoff Shang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi,
>
> Those of you who are paying attention will remember that I moved here from
> Australia 4 months ago.  Again, thanks to those who have answered questions
> for me in that time (don't worry, there will be more).
>
> I've finally decided that it's time to configure NTP.  but I'm having

You can try ntp.iix.net.il.

> which again is a bit far.  I downloaded a Ubuntu image from Cyprus the

You can also try mirror.isoc.org.il.
-- 
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Re: NTP configuration

[Noam Meltzer]

There is also ntp.ac.il

On 9/1/07, Yedidyah Bar-David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 2007/9/1, Geoff Shang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Those of you who are paying attention will remember that I moved here
> from
> > Australia 4 months ago.  Again, thanks to those who have answered
> questions
> > for me in that time (don't worry, there will be more).
> >
> > I've finally decided that it's time to configure NTP.  but I'm having
>
> You can try ntp.iix.net.il.
>
> > which again is a bit far.  I downloaded a Ubuntu image from Cyprus the
>
> You can also try mirror.isoc.org.il.
> --
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Re: NTP configuration

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 01:21:31AM +0300, Geoff Shang wrote:
> I've done a bit of DNS work and found the following which may or may not 
> yield actual working servers:
> 
> * ntp.netvision.net.il (2 addresses)
> * ntp.012.net.il
> * time.inter.net.il
> * time.bezeqint.net
> 
> Anyone know if any of these are working public servers?  Anyone with 
> suggestions of other servers to use?

Use the one belonging to your ISP. Do not use the others. Do not use
the "official" one ntp.ac.il aka ntp.huji.ca.il, it's swamped and
is not for private use. 

Netvision does not use it anyway, their NTP is derived from GPS.

Geoff.
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Re: NTP configuration

[Amit Aronovitch]

Geoff Shang wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Those of you who are paying attention will remember that I moved here
> from Australia 4 months ago.  Again, thanks to those who have answered
> questions for me in that time (don't worry, there will be more).
>
> I've finally decided that it's time to configure NTP.  but I'm having
> trouble finding servers that are nearby to use.  I looked at ntp.org
> at their server pool project, but the segment for Israel
> (http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/il) currently lists 0 servers.
>
> I've done a bit of DNS work and found the following which may or may
> not yield actual working servers:
>
> * ntp.netvision.net.il (2 addresses)
> * ntp.012.net.il
> * time.inter.net.il
> * time.bezeqint.net
>
> Anyone know if any of these are working public servers?  Anyone with
> suggestions of other servers to use?
>
Been using the netvision server for a few years - don't recall any probs.

First priority you should try is your ISP (this info is not
available/not easy to find on their web pages - but seems you have
already found the big ones. Contacting support might also work).

Second is the default pool for your distro (nowadays, installations
typically default to their "vendor zone"
http://www.pool.ntp.org/vendors.html ).

If you want to use the global pool - try  europe.pool.ntp.org, which as
far as I recall usually gives you servers with much lower "delay" value
than if you use the global pool.
I also seem to recall that the debian pool (default setting on a fresh
install) gives a similiar result (delay comparable to european servers -
much better than US servers, but not as good as my own ISP's).

note that timings above might not be up to date (I did not check other
options for some time...)


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Re: NTP not updating the local clock

[Noam Meltzer]

Hi,

Can you show us an example of /etc/ntp.conf ?

- Noam

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Shachar Shemesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a strange problem, and it is happening on several servers.
>
> I set up NTP to synchronize, sometimes with a local NTP source (say, a
> Windows Server domain controller) and sometime external (the usual ntp
> servers). The NTP process is working, and displays the time offset properly.
> However, it does not keep the machine synchronized with the server.
>
> You can see images from munin monitoring that machine, showing how the time
> keeps drifting away. At some point I ran ntpdate, and that synchronized the
> clocks ok until the times started drifting apart again.
>
> Any idea where to look for the source of the problem?
>
> Shachar
> http://www.lingnu.com/files/ntp-day.png
> http://www.lingnu.com/files/ntp-week.png
>
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Re: NTP not updating the local clock

[Shachar Shemesh]

Noam Meltzer wrote:

Hi,

Can you show us an example of /etc/ntp.conf ?
Attached as is. The Debian pool servers are unreachable due to the 
firewall. I can try removing them, but I doubt it will make any 
difference. They hardly show up when you do ntpq, so I doubt they matter.


Shachar
# /etc/ntp.conf, configuration for ntpd

driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift
statsdir /var/log/ntpstats/

statistics loopstats peerstats clockstats
filegen loopstats file loopstats type day enable
filegen peerstats file peerstats type day enable
filegen clockstats file clockstats type day enable


# You do need to talk to an NTP server or two (or three).
#server ntp.your-provider.example

# pool.ntp.org maps to more than 300 low-stratum NTP servers.
# Your server will pick a different set every time it starts up.
#  *** Please consider joining the pool! ***
#  ***  ***
server 0.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 1.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 2.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 3.debian.pool.ntp.org iburst
server 172.16.1.1
server 172.16.1.2

# By default, exchange time with everybody, but don't allow configuration.
# See /usr/share/doc/ntp-doc/html/accopt.html for details.
restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer noquery
restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer noquery

# Local users may interrogate the ntp server more closely.
restrict 127.0.0.1
restrict ::1

# Clients from this (example!) subnet have unlimited access,
# but only if cryptographically authenticated
#restrict 192.168.123.0  mask  255.255.255.0 notrust

# If you want to provide time to your local subnet, change the next line.
# (Again, the address is an example only.)
#broadcast 192.168.123.255

# If you want to listen to time broadcasts on your local subnet,
# de-comment the next lines. Please do this only if you trust everybody
# on the network!
#disable auth
#broadcastclient

Re: NTP not updating the local clock

[Noam Meltzer]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Shachar Shemesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Attached as is. The Debian pool servers are unreachable due to the
> firewall. I can try removing them, but I doubt it will make any difference.
> They hardly show up when you do ntpq, so I doubt they matter.


I *think* that the ntp client will try to repeatedly reach these servers
even though they do not respond, though I don't believe that this is the
problem. Anyhow, my experience tells me that if a server is not working,
don't put it in the file. (in the contrary to the למל"מ approach)

I would also add the lines:
server  127.127.1.0 # local clock
fudge   127.127.1.0 stratum 10

to handle conditions when the servers can not be contacted at all.
Besides of that the file looks just fine, so I really don't know.

I would try removing the debian servers, just in case... (go figure, you
might have been hitting a bug / feature)

- Noam

Re: NTP not updating the local clock

[Amos Shapira]

2008/7/23 Shachar Shemesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a strange problem, and it is happening on several servers.
>
> I set up NTP to synchronize, sometimes with a local NTP source (say, a
> Windows Server domain controller) and sometime external (the usual ntp
> servers). The NTP process is working, and displays the time offset properly.
> However, it does not keep the machine synchronized with the server.
>
> You can see images from munin monitoring that machine, showing how the time
> keeps drifting away. At some point I ran ntpdate, and that synchronized the
> clocks ok until the times started drifting apart again.
>
> Any idea where to look for the source of the problem?


My standard issue is "ntptrace" (on the server's machine).

Also see "ntpq -p", taken from http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-trouble.htm

--Amos

Re: NTP not updating the local clock

[Tomer Perry]

Amos Shapira wrote:
2008/7/23 Shachar Shemesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>:


Hi all,

I have a strange problem, and it is happening on several servers.

I set up NTP to synchronize, sometimes with a local NTP source
(say, a Windows Server domain controller) and sometime external
(the usual ntp servers). The NTP process is working, and displays
the time offset properly. However, it does not keep the machine
synchronized with the server.

You can see images from munin monitoring that machine, showing how
the time keeps drifting away. At some point I ran ntpdate, and
that synchronized the clocks ok until the times started drifting
apart again.

Any idea where to look for the source of the problem?


My standard issue is "ntptrace" (on the server's machine).

Also see "ntpq -p", taken from http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-trouble.htm

--Amos



Hi,

I never had problem with external ntp server, but it seems that ntp 
require the server to be in a low stratum value - so for example the 
root server can't use its local BIOS clock as a source.
I saw this problem at customers that were using the AD server as the 
root time source, ntpdate was updating fine - but since the stratum of 
the AD server was high ( 14 or so) ntpd refused tosync with it.
The solution was to sync the AD server with a reliable data source ( 
e.g. external NTP server or GPS clock in non internet connected 
environment).


Tomer


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Re: NTP not updating the local clock

[Oren Held]

On Wednesday 23 July 2008 16:26, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> I have a strange problem, and it is happening on several servers.
>
> I set up NTP to synchronize, sometimes with a local NTP source (say, a
> Windows Server domain controller) and sometime external (the usual ntp
> servers). The NTP process is working, and displays the time offset
> properly. However, it does not keep the machine synchronized with the
> server.

Maybe you already checked that, but just in case you didn't:
*BEFORE* running ntpd, the clock should be more-or-less sync'd (I think - up 
to 2min drift). If drift is too high, ntpd won't even try to fix the clock.

That's why most distros run ntpdate on boot before starting ntpd.

Also paste the ntpq -p output as was already suggested here.

 - Oren

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Re: NTP not updating the local clock

[Shachar Shemesh]

Oren Held wrote:

On Wednesday 23 July 2008 16:26, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
  

I have a strange problem, and it is happening on several servers.

I set up NTP to synchronize, sometimes with a local NTP source (say, a
Windows Server domain controller) and sometime external (the usual ntp
servers). The NTP process is working, and displays the time offset
properly. However, it does not keep the machine synchronized with the
server.



Maybe you already checked that, but just in case you didn't:
*BEFORE* running ntpd, the clock should be more-or-less sync'd (I think - up 
to 2min drift). If drift is too high, ntpd won't even try to fix the clock.
  
They were synced when I ran ntpdate. Even now the difference is about 11 
seconds - not enough to cause ntp to not synchronize.

That's why most distros run ntpdate on boot before starting ntpd.

Also paste the ntpq -p output as was already suggested here.
  

I removed the debian pool servers, and this is now the output:

machine:~# ntpq -p
 remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==
 dc01.domain.com .LOCL.   1 u-   64  3770.209  11100.4   2.143
 dc02.domain.com 172.16.1.1   2 u   10   64  3770.211  11093.9   7.942


As you can see, the stratum is low (dc01 reports itself to be stratum 1, 
which I find highly unlikely, but it is irrelevant to this discussion). 
We know that the machine CAN set its time, because ntpdate does work. We 
can see that the difference is all of 11 seconds - should not be enough 
to cause ntp to give up.


Here's another interesting piece of trivia, which may be the clue:

machine:~# cat /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift
19.157

So NTP is trying to set the drift.

Another piece of trivia is that the servers are awfully out of sync with 
the real clock. While my local clock (3ms apart from one of the Debian 
pool servers) shows 8:58:51 IDT, the server's clock (11 seconds apart 
from the domain controller) shows 09:02:10 IDT, which is more than two 
minutes apart. Maybe I'm looking for the problem at the wrong place


Thank you all for trying to help. I'll take it up with the local 
sysadmin there.


Shachar

Re: ntp and updating the bios clock by the kernel every 11 minutes.

[Ira Abramov]

On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Shaul Karl wrote:

> As far as I know new kernels does not write the correct time to the bios clock 
> every 11 min even if the system has a good time reference (ntp or such). This 
> is contrary to what older kernels used to do.

I have never heard of a kernel voluntarily updating the hardware clock,
or anyything at a weird 11 minute interval. I do however set on some
wild-clocked old mobos  a cron job to write the HWclock once an hour or
once a day. however if you have NTP synched and a drift file updated by
xntpd, then you don't even need to do that.

-- 
Ira Abramov ;  whois:IA58  ;  www.scso.com ;  all around Linux enthusiast
"If you want an application to be portable, you don't necessarily create an 
abstraction layer like a microkernel so much as you program intelligently."
  -- Linus Torvalds on Microkernels (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates)


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Re: ntp and updating the bios clock by the kernel every 11 minutes.

[Ariel Biener]

On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Ira Abramov wrote:

> I have never heard of a kernel voluntarily updating the hardware clock,
> or anyything at a weird 11 minute interval. I do however set on some
> wild-clocked old mobos  a cron job to write the HWclock once an hour or
> once a day. however if you have NTP synched and a drift file updated by
> xntpd, then you don't even need to do that.

Likewise. Never heard of kernel writing to the BIOS clock. I am also
running a cron job daily to write the date/time into the BIOS clock.

--Ariel
> 
> -- 
> Ira Abramov ;  whois:IA58  ;  www.scso.com ;  all around Linux enthusiast
> "If you want an application to be portable, you don't necessarily create an 
> abstraction layer like a microkernel so much as you program intelligently."
>   -- Linus Torvalds on Microkernels (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates)
> 
> 
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--
Ariel Biener
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Work phone: 03-6406086
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Re: ntp and updating the bios clock by the kernel every 11 minutes.

[Shaul Karl]

> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Shaul Karl wrote:
> 
> > As far as I know new kernels does not write the correct time to the bios clock 
> > every 11 min even if the system has a good time reference (ntp or such). This 
> > is contrary to what older kernels used to do.
> 
> I have never heard of a kernel voluntarily updating the hardware clock,
> or anyything at a weird 11 minute interval. I do however set on some
> wild-clocked old mobos  a cron job to write the HWclock once an hour or
> once a day. however if you have NTP synched and a drift file updated by
> xntpd, then you don't even need to do that.
> 

The following is from Debian-Users (sent by Henrique M Holschuh 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>):

> > Also, hwclock --systohc disables the 11 minute update mode in the kernel,
> > and ntp may stop updating the kernel clock because of that. 
> 
> Are you sure? I believe that updating the hw clock every 11min is not done 
> with newer kernels.

Yes, I just tested and my 2.2.14 has (a working) 11 minute sync mode all
right (I have no idea about 2.3.x). But it is rather quirky...

I didn't test if hwclock does disable 11 minutes mode, but the man page says
it does.



-- 
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