Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[E.S. Rosenberg]

2013/7/7 Ori Idan :
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson
>  wrote:
>>
>> On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote:
>>
>>> On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open
>>> source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted
>>> to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in
>>> parallel though.
>>
>>
>>
>> As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care
>> how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are
>> done properly.
>>
>> Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the
>> data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a
>> certified public accountant (CPA).
>>
>> In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your
>> accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their
>> program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities.
>>
>> At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and
>> the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you.
>>
>> IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent
>> consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with startups
>> over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to keep
>> your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV.
>>
>> Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so
>> you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file.
>>
>> I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice
>> would be acceptable to them.
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>>
> Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave
> approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet,
> both GPL).
> The real truth is that they only ask to see several things:
> 1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without repeating.
> 2. No simple ability to delete transcations
> 3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all
> transactions in a special format they require.
>
> That is all, no question about OSS or not.
> There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to
> register it so they have nothing against OSS.
> GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files.
>
> Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I make a
> living out of Accounting software.
> I have written several software packages and also consult business about the
> same.

Both drorit and linet run server side, gnucash runs on my computer and
the tax authority has no way of knowing whether I doctored my version
of gnucash.
Even with drorit and linet, will the tax authority accept it if I
install it on my server (and as a result have full control over all
the demands you listed) or did they only approve the version running
on company X's servers?
Logically it seems only the second would be the case...
Regards,
Eliyahu - אליהו
>
> --
> Ori Idan
>
>
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Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[Ori Idan]

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:16 AM, E.S. Rosenberg  wrote:

> 2013/7/7 Ori Idan :
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote:
> >>
> >>> On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an
> open
> >>> source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted
> >>> to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in
> >>> parallel though.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't
> care
> >> how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are
> >> done properly.
> >>
> >> Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that
> the
> >> data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a
> >> certified public accountant (CPA).
> >>
> >> In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your
> >> accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their
> >> program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities.
> >>
> >> At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and
> >> the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you.
> >>
> >> IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent
> >> consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with
> startups
> >> over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to
> keep
> >> your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV.
> >>
> >> Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so
> >> you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file.
> >>
> >> I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice
> >> would be acceptable to them.
> >>
> >> Geoff.
> >>
> >>
> > Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave
> > approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet,
> > both GPL).
> > The real truth is that they only ask to see several things:
> > 1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without
> repeating.
> > 2. No simple ability to delete transcations
> > 3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all
> > transactions in a special format they require.
> >
> > That is all, no question about OSS or not.
> > There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to
> > register it so they have nothing against OSS.
> > GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files.
> >
> > Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I
> make a
> > living out of Accounting software.
> > I have written several software packages and also consult business about
> the
> > same.
>
> Both drorit and linet run server side, gnucash runs on my computer and
> the tax authority has no way of knowing whether I doctored my version
> of gnucash.
> Even with drorit and linet, will the tax authority accept it if I
> install it on my server (and as a result have full control over all
> the demands you listed) or did they only approve the version running
> on company X's servers?
> Logically it seems only the second would be the case...
>

Linet does not run on a server it is run locally.
The request is that you can not change or delete transactions from the
software itself or by a normal user.
There is no request to not be able to change at all. They accept that
knowledgeable user with root privileges on the system can delete
transactions.

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Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[E.S. Rosenberg]

re:all

2013/7/7 Ori Idan :
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson
>  wrote:
>>
>> On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote:
>>
>>> On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open
>>> source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted
>>> to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in
>>> parallel though.
>>
>>
>>
>> As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care
>> how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are
>> done properly.
>>
>> Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the
>> data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a
>> certified public accountant (CPA).
>>
>> In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your
>> accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their
>> program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities.
>>
>> At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and
>> the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you.
>>
>> IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent
>> consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with startups
>> over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional to keep
>> your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV.
>>
>> Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so
>> you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file.
>>
>> I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice
>> would be acceptable to them.
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>>
> Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave
> approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet,
> both GPL).
> The real truth is that they only ask to see several things:
> 1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without repeating.
> 2. No simple ability to delete transcations
> 3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all
> transactions in a special format they require.
>
> That is all, no question about OSS or not.
> There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to
> register it so they have nothing against OSS.
> GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files.
>
> Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I make a
> living out of Accounting software.
> I have written several software packages and also consult business about the
> same.
Both drorit and linet run server side, gnucash runs on my computer and
the tax authority has no way of knowing whether I doctored my version
of gnucash.
Even with drorit and linet, will the tax authority accept it if I
install it on my server (and as a result have full control over all
the demands you listed) or did they only approve the version running
on company X's servers?
Logically it seems only the second would be the case...
Regards,
Eliyahu - אליהו

>
> --
> Ori Idan
>
>
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Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

On 7/7/2013 4:51 AM, Ori Idan wrote:



Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave
approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet,
both GPL).


I never said anything about FOSS, what I was commenting on was the
requirement to have either be a  CPA or a have a level 3 bookkeeper
certificate in order to be legally able to enter the data into you
approved (Open source or not) program.


Has that restriction been lifted?

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson,  N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

--
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Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[Ori Idan]

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson <
geoffreymendel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote:
>
>  On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open
>> source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted
>> to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in
>> parallel though.
>>
>
>
> As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't care
> how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to them are
> done properly.
>
> Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that the
> data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or a
> certified public accountant (CPA).
>
> In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your
> accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their
> program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities.
>
> At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and
> the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you.
>
> IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent
> consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with
> startups over various times, is that any money spent paying a professional
> to keep your books and prepare your tax returns is well worth it. YMMV.
>
> Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so
> you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file.
>
> I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice
> would be acceptable to them.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
> Tax authorities has nothing against OSS software and they already gave
approval to OSS software twice (Drorit, my software and it's fork Linet,
both GPL).
The real truth is that they only ask to see several things:
1. Invoices can not be deleted and numbered sequentially without repeating.
2. No simple ability to delete transcations
3. Output of what they call Open Format files, these are files with all
transactions in a special format they require.

That is all, no question about OSS or not.
There was a debate last time they registered Linet and they agreed to
register it so they have nothing against OSS.
GNUCASH can not be registered since it can not output Open Format files.

Note that I have good experience and knowledge about the subject as I make
a living out of Accounting software.
I have written several software packages and also consult business about
the same.

-- 
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Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

On 7/7/2013 1:20 AM, Micha Feigin wrote:


On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open
source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted
to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in
parallel though.



As it was explained to me by my accountant, the tax authorities don't 
care how you keep YOUR books, they only care that the submissions to 
them are done properly.


Properly means that an accepted (certified?) program is used and that 
the data was entered by a level 3 (starts at 1) certified bookkeeper or 
a certified public accountant (CPA).


In real terms this means for small business the data is sent to your 
accountant and they (or their certified bookkeeper) enters it into their 
program on their computer and submits that to the tax authorities.


At that point the responsibility for the data being entered properly and 
the program being a legal one is borne by your accountant and not you.


IMHO this is preferable because my experience in being an independent 
consultant, the owner of a small consulting firm, and involved with 
startups over various times, is that any money spent paying a 
professional to keep your books and prepare your tax returns is well 
worth it. YMMV.


Most accountants will accept data in XLS (Excel spreadsheet format), so 
you can enter the data in an Excel spreadsheet and send them the file.


I assume that an Excel spreadsheet created and maintained by OpenOffice 
would be acceptable to them.


Geoff.


--
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Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[Micha Feigin]

On 07/06/2013 05:06 PM, E.S. Rosenberg wrote:

2013/7/6 vordoo :

On 2013-07-04 16:45, sara fink wrote:

I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted
by Israeli tax authorities?

Me too, but one that is not a proprietary web site, I would like to keep my
data & have the option to work off-line:-)

In a similar thread someone once wrote that gnucash could never be
certified by the tax authority for the reason that it is OSS and thus
you could modify it to function in ways deemed illegal by the tax
authorities

If this is indeed the case then that is sad for us but I don't see how
we can change it...

Well maybe...
I guess one could have an open source web platform, of which the code
is vetted by the authorities but they only accept it when it's coming
through the webplatform which is guaranteed to run an acceptable
version.
Like that your data is guaranteed since you can always download the
software and your data and install it on your own server and the tax
authorities still have an application that you can't change because it
is running outside of your control.

Regards,
Eliyahu - אליהו

From what I remember from a few years back when this discussion came up 
at the time, there were two problems with getting both a free and 
opensource application that is a legal accounting software:


1. There is a requirement is that you can't change the software (and the 
data) -- same problem with there is with an open GSM device by the way, 
where you are not allowed to distribute the firmware so that people 
can't make the hardware do illegal stuff.
2. The other part is the very high costs involved in getting such a 
software certified. I believe that it's on the order of multiple tens of 
thousands. This means that unless you are a very reach philanthropist 
you would not spend your money certifying the software.


On the other hand as memory serves, you can run your books using an open 
source software and then submit the printouts to a certified accounted 
to make a legal report. You may need to work with generic receipts in 
parallel though.


Just my 2c

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Re: accounting software *free & open source*

[E.S. Rosenberg]

2013/7/6 vordoo :
> On 2013-07-04 16:45, sara fink wrote:
>
> I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted
> by Israeli tax authorities?
>
> Me too, but one that is not a proprietary web site, I would like to keep my
> data & have the option to work off-line:-)
In a similar thread someone once wrote that gnucash could never be
certified by the tax authority for the reason that it is OSS and thus
you could modify it to function in ways deemed illegal by the tax
authorities

If this is indeed the case then that is sad for us but I don't see how
we can change it...

Well maybe...
I guess one could have an open source web platform, of which the code
is vetted by the authorities but they only accept it when it's coming
through the webplatform which is guaranteed to run an acceptable
version.
Like that your data is guaranteed since you can always download the
software and your data and install it on your own server and the tax
authorities still have an application that you can't change because it
is running outside of your control.

Regards,
Eliyahu - אליהו
>
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Re: accounting software

[Ori Idan]

On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Shachar Shemesh  wrote:

>  On 06/07/13 08:45, Ori Idan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>  Again you did not understand me.
> It is illegal to treat proforma as if it was an invoice and thus create
> double transactions.
> Since you will issue an invoice when you get the payment.
>
>Double accounting need be *either* cash based *or* commitment based.
> You cannot validly mix the two. That much is true. However:
>
>1. The requirements by law to approve an invoicing system need not
>include accounting at all, much less make sure it conforms to any
>particular standard. It is true that that will not allow you to issue אישור
>ניהול ספרים if you are required to keep double bookkeeping, but most people
>who are required to do that pay someone to do it. As such, I don't think
>saying "illegal" does this justice.
>2. Performa invoices transactions have three stages, instead of the
>more traditional two. There is the payment requirement stage (the performa
>invoice), the formal transaction stage (the tax invoice) and the actual
>payment. You are right that creating two transactions, one for the performa
>and one for the tax invoices, is wrong, whether it is illegal largely
>depends on the way the tax is calculated. If the VAT payment is calculated
>to the right amount at the right time, I don't see how that is a problem.
>
> Performa invoice have two stages (the third one is the receipt). The bug
Linet had was that they would record transactions the same as invoice and
thus when issuing the invoice you had two monitarry tansactions while you
should have had only one.
So it was never balanced since if you issued an invoice on 1000 ILS,
received payment of 1000 ILS The balance is 0 which is Ok.
If you had the Performa recorded as transactions you would have a balance
of 1000.
For simplification I did not include VAT here.

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Re: accounting software

[Shachar Shemesh]

On 06/07/13 08:45, Ori Idan wrote:
>
>
>
> Again you did not understand me.
> It is illegal to treat proforma as if it was an invoice and thus
> create double transactions.
> Since you will issue an invoice when you get the payment.
>
Double accounting need be *either* cash based *or* commitment based. You
cannot validly mix the two. That much is true. However:

 1. The requirements by law to approve an invoicing system need not
include accounting at all, much less make sure it conforms to any
particular standard. It is true that that will not allow you to
issue אישור ניהול ספרים if you are required to keep double
bookkeeping, but most people who are required to do that pay someone
to do it. As such, I don't think saying "illegal" does this justice.
 2. Performa invoices transactions have three stages, instead of the
more traditional two. There is the payment requirement stage (the
performa invoice), the formal transaction stage (the tax invoice)
and the actual payment. You are right that creating two
transactions, one for the performa and one for the tax invoices, is
wrong, whether it is illegal largely depends on the way the tax is
calculated. If the VAT payment is calculated to the right amount at
the right time, I don't see how that is a problem.

Shachar

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Re: accounting software

[Ori Idan]

On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Shachar Shemesh  wrote:

>  On 06/07/13 08:33, Ori Idan wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>
>>  On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote:
>>
>> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
>> The best one I can recommend is:
>> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
>> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
>> websites.
>> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
>> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>>
>>  Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
>> bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
>> authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
>> transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
>> their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
>>
>>  How do you figure that it is illegal?
>>
>> If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to pass a law
>> that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice from small
>> businesses?
>>
> Proforma invoice by itself is legal.
> What is illegal is creating transactions as it if was an invoice.
>
> Are you saying it is illegal to create an accounting program that tracks
> payment done על בסיס מזומן? If so, how is a big company that receives a
> performa invoice supposed to track it?
>
Again you did not understand me.
It is illegal to treat proforma as if it was an invoice and thus create
double transactions.
Since you will issue an invoice when you get the payment.

-- 
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Re: accounting software

[Shachar Shemesh]

On 06/07/13 08:33, Ori Idan wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh  > wrote:
>
> On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote:
>> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
>> The best one I can recommend is:
>> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
>> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from
>> ecommerece websites.
>> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
>> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>>
>> Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied
>> all the bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is
>> accepted by the Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it
>> useless such as creating transactions for non tax invoice
>> (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got their tax certificate with
>> this bug since it is illegal.
> How do you figure that it is illegal?
>
> If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to
> pass a law that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice
> from small businesses?
>
> Proforma invoice by itself is legal.
> What is illegal is creating transactions as it if was an invoice.
Are you saying it is illegal to create an accounting program that tracks
payment done על בסיס מזומן? If so, how is a big company that receives a
performa invoice supposed to track it?

Shachar
>
> -- 
> Ori Idan
>

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Re: accounting software

[Ori Idan]

On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh  wrote:

>  On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote:
>
> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
> The best one I can recommend is:
> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
> websites.
> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>
>  Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
> bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
> authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
> transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
> their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
>
> How do you figure that it is illegal?
>
> If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to pass a law
> that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice from small
> businesses?
>
Proforma invoice by itself is legal.
What is illegal is creating transactions as it if was an invoice.

-- 
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Re: accounting software

[Shachar Shemesh]

On 04/07/13 17:34, Ori Idan wrote:
> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
> The best one I can recommend is:
> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
> websites.
> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>
> Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
> bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the
> Tax authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as
> creating transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder
> How they got their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
How do you figure that it is illegal?

If it is illegal, why did the Knesset go to all this bother to pass a
law that *requires* clients to accept a performa invoice from small
businesses?

They even did some prime time TV advertising for issuing performa
invoices instead of tax invoices![1]

Are you suggesting my accounting program should not track payment
requests for which no tax is due until actual payments?

Shachar

1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjombaz0lrw
>

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Re: accounting software

[Ori Idan]

You can use the API to issue the receipts from any other software.


On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 1:25 AM, sara fink  wrote:

> The program has to connect to a hotel management program (hoteldroid) and
> has to provide receipts.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Amichai Rotman wrote:
>
>> Sara,
>>
>> You might also consider GeeeX CRM [1]. It's based on vTiger CRM but the
>> Hebrew translation was redone and an Invoice module was written in,
>> authorized by the Israeli Revenue Service.
>>
>> [1] http://free.geeex.net
>>
>> Amichai.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:
>>
>>> ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be
>>> enough to connect to other software.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks. Now the question is,  if freelance can connect to other software


 On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:

> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
> The best one I can recommend is:
> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
> websites.
> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>
> Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
> bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
> authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
> transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
> their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
> However I heard that in recent version they fixed it.
>
> --
> Ori Idan
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <
> ladyp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux.
>>
>>  On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Everyone
>>>
>>> I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is
>>> accepted by Israeli tax authorities?
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
>> http://ladypine.org
>>
>> ___
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>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>> ___
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>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: accounting software

[sara fink]

The program has to connect to a hotel management program (hoteldroid) and
has to provide receipts.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Amichai Rotman  wrote:

> Sara,
>
> You might also consider GeeeX CRM [1]. It's based on vTiger CRM but the
> Hebrew translation was redone and an Invoice module was written in,
> authorized by the Israeli Revenue Service.
>
> [1] http://free.geeex.net
>
> Amichai.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:
>
>> ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be
>> enough to connect to other software.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks. Now the question is,  if freelance can connect to other software
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:
>>>
 There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
 The best one I can recommend is:
 http://www.ifreelance.co.il
 Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
 websites.
 Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
 signature for 100 ILS a year)

 Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
 bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
 authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
 transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
 their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
 However I heard that in recent version they fixed it.

 --
 Ori Idan



 On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <
 ladyp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux.
>
>  On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone
>>
>> I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is
>> accepted by Israeli tax authorities?
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
> http://ladypine.org
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>

>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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Re: accounting software

[Amichai Rotman]

Sara,

You might also consider GeeeX CRM [1]. It's based on vTiger CRM but the
Hebrew translation was redone and an Invoice module was written in,
authorized by the Israeli Revenue Service.

[1] http://free.geeex.net

Amichai.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:

> ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be
> enough to connect to other software.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink  wrote:
>
>> Thanks. Now the question is,  if freelance can connect to other software
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:
>>
>>> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
>>> The best one I can recommend is:
>>> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
>>> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
>>> websites.
>>> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
>>> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>>>
>>> Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
>>> bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
>>> authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
>>> transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
>>> their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
>>> However I heard that in recent version they fixed it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ori Idan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda <
>>> ladyp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux.

  On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink  wrote:

> Hello Everyone
>
> I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is
> accepted by Israeli tax authorities?
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


 --
 Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
 http://ladypine.org

 ___
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>>>
>>
>
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> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
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Re: accounting software

[Ori Idan]

ifreelance can export most of it's reports as CSV so I guess it may be
enough to connect to other software.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM, sara fink  wrote:

> Thanks. Now the question is,  if freelance can connect to other software
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:
>
>> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
>> The best one I can recommend is:
>> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
>> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
>> websites.
>> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
>> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>>
>> Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
>> bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
>> authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
>> transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
>> their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
>> However I heard that in recent version they fixed it.
>>
>> --
>> Ori Idan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda > > wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux.
>>>
>>>  On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink  wrote:
>>>
 Hello Everyone

 I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is
 accepted by Israeli tax authorities?

 ___
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 Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
 http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
>>> http://ladypine.org
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: accounting software

[sara fink]

Thanks. Now the question is,  if freelance can connect to other software


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Ori Idan  wrote:

> There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
> The best one I can recommend is:
> http://www.ifreelance.co.il
> Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
> websites.
> Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital
> signature for 100 ILS a year)
>
> Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the
> bugs I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
> authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
> transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
> their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
> However I heard that in recent version they fixed it.
>
> --
> Ori Idan
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda 
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux.
>>
>>  On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Everyone
>>>
>>> I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is
>>> accepted by Israeli tax authorities?
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Linux-il mailing list
>>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
>> http://ladypine.org
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
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Re: accounting software

[Ori Idan]

There are several software packages I wrote that are all accepted.
The best one I can recommend is:
http://www.ifreelance.co.il
Free of charge for most cases. Also has an API for use from ecommerece
websites.
Can send invoices by mail (not free, requires purchase of digital signature
for 100 ILS a year)

Linet is a fork of my Drorit software and unfortunately copied all the bugs
I had and add more of their own. Although it is accepted by the Tax
authorities it has few bugs that render it useless such as creating
transactions for non tax invoice (Heshbonit Iska) I wonder How they got
their tax certificate with this bug since it is illegal.
However I heard that in recent version they fixed it.

-- 
Ori Idan



On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote:

> http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux.
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink  wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone
>>
>> I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is
>> accepted by Israeli tax authorities?
>>
>> ___
>> Linux-il mailing list
>> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
> http://ladypine.org
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>
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Re: accounting software

[Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda]

http://www.ucan2.co.il/ works with Linux.

On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM, sara fink  wrote:

> Hello Everyone
>
> I would like to know which accounting software (besides linet) is accepted
> by Israeli tax authorities?
>
> ___
> Linux-il mailing list
> Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
>
>


-- 
Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda.
http://ladypine.org
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Re: accounting software

[vor]

Thanks for the prompt response.

I am looking for an application from which i can manage/issue both tax 
reciepts as well as invoices.

I understand the invoicing isn't the issue, but the tax reciepts are.

Thanks

Ivor

On Sunday 10 July 2005 13:44, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Hi List
> >
> >Is anyone aware of an accounting application for Linux that is recognized
> > by the Israeli tax authotities? (like rivchit etc.).
> >
> >Many thanks
> >
> >Ivor
>
> What are you trying to achieve? If it's just issuing invoices, you don't
> actually need the Tax authorities' permission. You are just accountable
> to the results if you don't pick one. If you want something more
> elaborate, then I'm not sure what the status is.
>
>   Shachar

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Re: accounting software

[Shachar Shemesh]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Thanks for the prompt response.

I am looking for an application from which i can manage/issue both tax 
reciepts as well as invoices.


I understand the invoicing isn't the issue, but the tax reciepts are.

Thanks

Ivor
 

I am not sure what does "tax receipts" mean, exactly. In Israeli tax 
laws, receipts don't hold much legal value at all (at least for 
businesses that pay VAT). An invoice is proof that a transaction took 
place for both VAT and Income Tax authorities, and a receipt is only 
really used to prove that actual payment took place. Many of my clients 
don't even bother picking the later up, and don't care whether I issue 
them or not.


The reason I stated the difference is because the wording of the law 
leaves a lot to be desired in terms of clarity. There seems to be some 
difference between software distributed commercially and other software, 
and between software used merely for issuing invoices (and receipts), 
and software actually used to do double-entry book keeping.


I actually tried to get in touch with someone in the tax authorities who 
was in charge of this field, and failed. I got a phone number which may 
or may not be the right one, because no one answered there.


The consensus seems to be that you are free to manage your own invoices 
in whatever way you wish, including a computerized method. The only 
catch is that if it turns out that the software issues two invoices with 
the same number, issues the same invoice twice labeling both as 
"original", or any other from a series of such violations of the law, 
then you cannot say "but it's the software". This is, really, what the 
registration of the software all about.


 Shachar

--
Shachar Shemesh
Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd.
http://www.lingnu.com/


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Re: accounting software

[Shachar Shemesh]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi List

Is anyone aware of an accounting application for Linux that is recognized by 
the Israeli tax authotities? (like rivchit etc.).


Many thanks

Ivor
 

What are you trying to achieve? If it's just issuing invoices, you don't 
actually need the Tax authorities' permission. You are just accountable 
to the results if you don't pick one. If you want something more 
elaborate, then I'm not sure what the status is.


 Shachar

--
Shachar Shemesh
Lingnu Open Source Consulting ltd.
http://www.lingnu.com/


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