Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: >I am with you guys fully now, and the fork in the road has been taken. >We are now a Linux and Open Source shop. I appreciate your kind >comments. I'm glad to hear you're truely commited to Linux now. >I have created an alternate email account for you and telnet >login at vger.timpanogas.org. I can also host any domain name >you wish to use. We have four right now. > >timpanogas.org >timpanogas.net >timpanogas.com >lintell.com > >You can use any of them, or create one of your own and I'll be happy to >host it in my DNS zone files. I will need your IP address range to >allow you to come through the firewall and manage your own account. I >will send you the password via private email. You are free to use this >account to avoid the bouncing problems if you wish to. Ok, thanks. I'll contact you off-list.. Take care! TTYL -- Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Open source advocate Computer Consultant - Capslock Consulting Copyright 2000 all rights reserved -- [Quote: Linus Torvalds - Aug 27, 2000 - linux-kernel mailing list] "And I'm right. I'm always right, but in this case I'm just a bit more right than I usually am." -- Linus Torvalds - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
Mike,
I am with you guys fully now, and the fork in the road has been taken.
We are now a Linux and Open Source shop. I appreciate your kind
comments. I have created an alternate email account for you and telnet
login at vger.timpanogas.org. I can also host any domain name you wish
to use. We have four right now.
timpanogas.org
timpanogas.net
timpanogas.com
lintell.com
You can use any of them, or create one of your own and I'll be happy to
host it in my DNS zone files. I will need your IP address range to
allow you to come through the firewall and manage your own account. I
will send you the password via private email. You are free to use this
account to avoid the bouncing problems if you wish to.
:-)
Your friend,
Jeff
"Mike A. Harris" wrote:
>
> Oops.. I just realized my response to you did not go to the list
> Jeff, and I feel that a public response was deserved, so I've
> forwarded my message below.
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:17:34 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Mike A. Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Jeff V. Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Subject: Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
>
> On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
>
> >You can have a mail account on one of my servers for FREE and FOREVER.
> >I would be happy to host an email account for you if you like. What do
> >you want your account to be? I will create an email account, and if you
> >want this, then tell me and I'll have our IS guy forward you a password.
> >:-)
>
> Jeff,
>
> This is a surprise response indeed. {O.O}
>
> Although I don't always agree with you and your comments - mostly
> because I am a die-hard Linux advocate (as you've no doubt seen
> many times) and you sometimes seem to push different people's
> buttons either out of frustration, or perhaps sometimes just for
> a laugh (which I am guilty of sometimes myself), you do try to
> make amends afterwards usually. (Holy run-on sentence batman..)
> I've watched this in the past and didn't always feel you were
> truely genuine, however maybe I was wrong.
>
> I get pretty upset over certain types of issues WRT Linux, and my
> comments to you in the past have been very harsh as a result.
> The last "blast" I had with you, I more or less expected an equal
> blast back, however I didn't quite expect the non-irate response
> that I actually did get back, and so I thought perhaps you
> weren't so hard headed in the first place, and that maybe I
> should have relaxed a bit before responding.
>
> I thought perhaps I'd been a too hard on you, but I wasn't sure
> as you are a really difficult guy to peg and understand where
> you're truely coming from. It's hard to tell when you're serious
> about things, and when you're joking around, or perhaps just
> trolling a bit or releasing steam. I suppose I'm that way too
> myself sometimes though.
>
> I thought of doing the right thing and dropping you a line of
> apology as I believe 2 wrongs don't make a right. I was still
> pissed off a bit though, and wasn't sure about your motives WRT
> Linux and the fluctuations of the discussions that were going on
> at the time, so I thought I'd hold back and see what direction
> things went next.
>
> With your discussion of an NTFS driver, etc.. that followed, the
> ball bounced back to "Jeff does seem serious about Linux after
> all", and so I was again not sure about you - which has always
> been a part of the frustration as well. ;o) One minute Linux
> sucks, and NT rocks, and the next NT sucks and Linux rocks..
>
> You're a very dynamic minded guy! ;o)
>
> Anyway, I think I'm beginning to understand you a bit more now,
> and that will likely help me take a pill next time I disagree
> with you, instead of lashing out. I don't like getting into
> nasty flames with *anyone*, but of course sometimes that is where
> human nature ends up taking things.
>
> I am not one to hold a grudge however, even if I disagree with
> someone strongly. I don't know if you were around for the GPL /
> APC UPS flamewar with Andre Hedrick a few years back or not, but
> me and Andre had some pretty harsh words, and in less than a week
> we had cleaned that all up, and have been on the "same side" ever
> since. He's a pretty cool guy, and so I'm glad that we amended
> that situation when we did.
>
> It looks like we too are now doing the same, and this is a good
> step. It shows we can both start out by being childish jerks
> sometimes, and then smell t
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
Oops.. I just realized my response to you did not go to the list
Jeff, and I feel that a public response was deserved, so I've
forwarded my message below.
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:17:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike A. Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Jeff V. Merkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
>You can have a mail account on one of my servers for FREE and FOREVER.
>I would be happy to host an email account for you if you like. What do
>you want your account to be? I will create an email account, and if you
>want this, then tell me and I'll have our IS guy forward you a password.
>:-)
Jeff,
This is a surprise response indeed. {O.O}
Although I don't always agree with you and your comments - mostly
because I am a die-hard Linux advocate (as you've no doubt seen
many times) and you sometimes seem to push different people's
buttons either out of frustration, or perhaps sometimes just for
a laugh (which I am guilty of sometimes myself), you do try to
make amends afterwards usually. (Holy run-on sentence batman..)
I've watched this in the past and didn't always feel you were
truely genuine, however maybe I was wrong.
I get pretty upset over certain types of issues WRT Linux, and my
comments to you in the past have been very harsh as a result.
The last "blast" I had with you, I more or less expected an equal
blast back, however I didn't quite expect the non-irate response
that I actually did get back, and so I thought perhaps you
weren't so hard headed in the first place, and that maybe I
should have relaxed a bit before responding.
I thought perhaps I'd been a too hard on you, but I wasn't sure
as you are a really difficult guy to peg and understand where
you're truely coming from. It's hard to tell when you're serious
about things, and when you're joking around, or perhaps just
trolling a bit or releasing steam. I suppose I'm that way too
myself sometimes though.
I thought of doing the right thing and dropping you a line of
apology as I believe 2 wrongs don't make a right. I was still
pissed off a bit though, and wasn't sure about your motives WRT
Linux and the fluctuations of the discussions that were going on
at the time, so I thought I'd hold back and see what direction
things went next.
With your discussion of an NTFS driver, etc.. that followed, the
ball bounced back to "Jeff does seem serious about Linux after
all", and so I was again not sure about you - which has always
been a part of the frustration as well. ;o) One minute Linux
sucks, and NT rocks, and the next NT sucks and Linux rocks..
You're a very dynamic minded guy! ;o)
Anyway, I think I'm beginning to understand you a bit more now,
and that will likely help me take a pill next time I disagree
with you, instead of lashing out. I don't like getting into
nasty flames with *anyone*, but of course sometimes that is where
human nature ends up taking things.
I am not one to hold a grudge however, even if I disagree with
someone strongly. I don't know if you were around for the GPL /
APC UPS flamewar with Andre Hedrick a few years back or not, but
me and Andre had some pretty harsh words, and in less than a week
we had cleaned that all up, and have been on the "same side" ever
since. He's a pretty cool guy, and so I'm glad that we amended
that situation when we did.
It looks like we too are now doing the same, and this is a good
step. It shows we can both start out by being childish jerks
sometimes, and then smell the coffee, realize what really
matters, set ourselves straight, get our minds focussed again on
Linux, clean out the grudge closet, and then be sane rational
adults once again. ;o) It's all a part of the big open source
family. ;o)
Negative energy is very counter productive, and contagious as
well, so when someone turns it around into positive energy, it is
a good thing indeed.
This is something that has been bothering me for the last week or
so, especially after having a few day cooloff period, and so I'm
glad that you have initiated this discussion by showing good over
bad. I only wish now that I had done the same a week ago.
Well, at any rate, I extend my apology to you for the personal
attacks I've blasted you with on lk in the past, and I hope that
we can put it all behind us and move on, and perhaps you will now
see me in a different light as well.
Have a good one!
Take care,
TTYL
--
Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Open source advocate
Computer Consultant - Capslock Consulting
Copyright 2000 all rights reserved
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
On Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 08:25:09PM +, Miquel van Smoorenburg wrote: > In article <3776575819.970144217@[10.10.1.2]>, > And unreliable ISP SMTP servers? Hard to imagine, as 99.5% of the > userbase undoubtedly uses that SMTP server and I can't believe > that a reasonable ISP randomly drops email messages. Here in Spain a good number of ISPs are extremely reliable. They must be, since they have the habit of upgrading or going through "scheduled" maintenance. ;) And you don't even want to hear about usenet, radius, disconnections, or cable/adsl deployment. Once T, _the_ phone co lost connectivity to the rest of the world, and they said a excavator had cut the fiber. I emailed their backbone provider and found out that T decieded not to keep the contract, so their provider cut them off. (Eventually newspapers called it the "ghost excavator":) Umm... back to on-topicness :) -- /| Ragnar Højland Freedom - Linux - OpenGL Fingerprint 94C4B \ o.O| 2F0D27DE025BE2302C =(_)= "Thou shalt not follow the NULL pointer for 104B78C56 B72F0822 U chaos and madness await thee at its end." hkp://keys.pgp.com Handle via comment channels only. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
In article <3776575819.970144217@[10.10.1.2]>, Martin J. Bligh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> When I was researching the use of ORBS and MAPS a few weeks >> back, my first thought was that the DUL would unfairly block Linux >> users running Sendmail. Looks like that's true. > >Just give sendmail a smart_host of your ISP's mail server. In theory >I guess this slows thing down, and yes it's a pain, but on the other >hand, it works. It speeds things up in a lot of cases. What if the destination host is down? What if the destination host is in Zimbabwe connected through a 9600 baud modem? Much easier to transfer your mail full speed to the ISPs smarthost and let it care about all that. And unreliable ISP SMTP servers? Hard to imagine, as 99.5% of the userbase undoubtedly uses that SMTP server and I can't believe that a reasonable ISP randomly drops email messages. That being said you should never get bounces when posting to the Linux kernel mailing list, since it isn't you who delivers all that mail to the endusers, but the majordomo running on vger or one of the exploders. The SMTP envelope from address should also be set to majordomo@vger, so I can't see how you would get hundreds of ORBS and DUL bounces ... &^%*& fscking out-of-office replies, yes (they should reinstate hanging for that ...) Mike. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
> > When I was researching the use of ORBS and MAPS a few weeks > > back, my first thought was that the DUL would unfairly block Linux > > users running Sendmail. Looks like that's true. > > Just give sendmail a smart_host of your ISP's mail server. In theory > I guess this slows thing down, and yes it's a pain, but on the other > hand, it works. Unless your ISP's mailservers are unreliable. In which case, you have problems. Taking the "so, change your ISP" line isn't acceptable, and neither are ISP's mailservers being ORBed themselves. It doesn't discriminate against people using Sendmail on Linux; it discriminates against anybody who runs their own mail server because they MIGHT JUST have more competence than the people who run their ISP's servers. While the original blacklist I agree with and support wholeheartedly, the DUL list a pathetic attempt at reducing spam, and has cost users _FAR_ more time and money in trying to work around it in order to send legitimate mail than could possibly have been saved by preventing the spam that originates from dialup IPs. Instead of doing this, ISPs should start configuring their mail servers properly and close those damned open relays. THAT is who MAPS should be putting pressure on, not the innocent end-users. My serveral cents, Mo [who is now praying that his ISP's mail server has decided to work today :P] -- Mo McKinlay Chief Software Architect inter/open Labs - GnuPG Key: pub 1024D/76A275F9 2000-07-22 Mo McKinlay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Phil Randal wrote: > When I was researching the use of ORBS and MAPS a few weeks > back, my first thought was that the DUL would unfairly block Linux > users running Sendmail. Looks like that's true. > The DUL's rationale is very suspect. The logic goes... Some > spammers use SMTP from their dial-up PCs to send spam, so we'll > block their ISP's dial-up address ranges. Not to worry, because > legitimate users will relay through their ISP's mail servers. You forgot about the lusers with open relays on hands. MAPS and ORBS can't handle that. And yes, it's serious - scanning the large range for open relays is trivial. Unfortunately, it scales well and spamware doing exactly that exists and is used. 30 56K links => T1... - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
> When I was researching the use of ORBS and MAPS a few weeks > back, my first thought was that the DUL would unfairly block Linux > users running Sendmail. Looks like that's true. Just give sendmail a smart_host of your ISP's mail server. In theory I guess this slows thing down, and yes it's a pain, but on the other hand, it works. Martin. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
> I had the same problem; the DUL people said there had been people spamming > from my ISP, so they blocked _every_ user from that ISP (which is quite big) > I found very annoying that it just took a Joe Spammer to rip me from my > right to run sendmail on my PC. Funny, huh? > > So I switched ISPs and hope it takes a while to happen again. :| When I was researching the use of ORBS and MAPS a few weeks back, my first thought was that the DUL would unfairly block Linux users running Sendmail. Looks like that's true. The DUL's rationale is very suspect. The logic goes... Some spammers use SMTP from their dial-up PCs to send spam, so we'll block their ISP's dial-up address ranges. Not to worry, because legitimate users will relay through their ISP's mail servers. H. Dodgy. Phil Phil Randal Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Worcester, UK http://www.rebee.clara.net - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
On Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 05:38:23PM -0400, Mike A. Harris wrote: > This message may be seen by some to be OT, but it concerns > ISP's SMTP. I figured despite the slowness, it would solve the > problem. Now I'm getting back all sorts of bounces from machines > blocking using something at "www.mail-abuse.org/dul" which > appears at a glance to be some list of all ISP's dialup modems or > something - meaning using my dialup machine with my own MTA is > going to be just as bad or worse.. SIGH. I had the same problem; the DUL people said there had been people spamming from my ISP, so they blocked _every_ user from that ISP (which is quite big) I found very annoying that it just took a Joe Spammer to rip me from my right to run sendmail on my PC. Funny, huh? So I switched ISPs and hope it takes a while to happen again. :| -- /| Ragnar Højland Freedom - Linux - OpenGL Fingerprint 94C4B \ o.O| 2F0D27DE025BE2302C =(_)= "Thou shalt not follow the NULL pointer for 104B78C56 B72F0822 U chaos and madness await thee at its end." hkp://keys.pgp.com Handle via comment channels only. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
Mike, You can have a mail account on one of my servers for FREE and FOREVER. I would be happy to host an email account for you if you like. What do you want your account to be? I will create an email account, and if you want this, then tell me and I'll have our IS guy forward you a password. :-) Jeff "Mike A. Harris" wrote: > > This message may be seen by some to be OT, but it concerns > replying to messages from this specific mailing list, so I'm > asking it here. > > My ISP's smtp is in ORBS and they don't seem to give a shit, and > mails to this list get 50 bouncebacks because of it. So, I set > up my local MTA to send directly from home, instead of via the > ISP's SMTP. I figured despite the slowness, it would solve the > problem. Now I'm getting back all sorts of bounces from machines > blocking using something at "www.mail-abuse.org/dul" which > appears at a glance to be some list of all ISP's dialup modems or > something - meaning using my dialup machine with my own MTA is > going to be just as bad or worse.. SIGH. > > Short of switching ISP's, is there some recommended way to get > mail out to the list without getting blocked by drop dead spam > filters? Please feel free to throw me at another list that is > more appropriate, or flame away, or whatever.. I'd just like to > get this stupid MTA problem over with so I don't get 50 bounces > due to ORBS blockers, etc.. > > For the record, even though it is killing me right now, I agree > with the usage of ORBS and similar services for privacy and spam > blocking. Feel free to flame me for that too. ;o) > > Again, sorry if you feel this is OT, but I don't have this > problem on other lists, and someone here likely has a good > answer. > > -- > Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Open source advocate >Copyright 2000 all rights reserved >-- > If you're interested in computer security, and want to stay on top of the > latest security exploits, and other information, visit: > > http://www.securityfocus.com > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Posting to this list without 500 bounces?
This message may be seen by some to be OT, but it concerns replying to messages from this specific mailing list, so I'm asking it here. My ISP's smtp is in ORBS and they don't seem to give a shit, and mails to this list get 50 bouncebacks because of it. So, I set up my local MTA to send directly from home, instead of via the ISP's SMTP. I figured despite the slowness, it would solve the problem. Now I'm getting back all sorts of bounces from machines blocking using something at "www.mail-abuse.org/dul" which appears at a glance to be some list of all ISP's dialup modems or something - meaning using my dialup machine with my own MTA is going to be just as bad or worse.. SIGH. Short of switching ISP's, is there some recommended way to get mail out to the list without getting blocked by drop dead spam filters? Please feel free to throw me at another list that is more appropriate, or flame away, or whatever.. I'd just like to get this stupid MTA problem over with so I don't get 50 bounces due to ORBS blockers, etc.. For the record, even though it is killing me right now, I agree with the usage of ORBS and similar services for privacy and spam blocking. Feel free to flame me for that too. ;o) Again, sorry if you feel this is OT, but I don't have this problem on other lists, and someone here likely has a good answer. -- Mike A. Harris - Linux advocate - Open source advocate Copyright 2000 all rights reserved -- If you're interested in computer security, and want to stay on top of the latest security exploits, and other information, visit: http://www.securityfocus.com - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
