Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan Cox wrote: > > > Features I would like in the kernel: > > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > > trigged before rootmount. > > Already there. In fact Red Hat uses it for the scsi devices. That is what > initrd is for. > > > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig > > such as ? > > > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig > > make bzlilo does the lilo install - what else would you expect there > > > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > > So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and > install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the > killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in > files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try > and write such a tool 8) > > > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) > > modprobe toshiba and look at http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ > > > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? > > No. > > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > tandem non-stop boxes. > > Alan > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ Could you please send me that peace of code to parse/loading config.in, It would be interesting thing to do. Thanks, John. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan Cox wrote: Features I would like in the kernel: 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be trigged before rootmount. Already there. In fact Red Hat uses it for the scsi devices. That is what initrd is for. 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig such as ? 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig make bzlilo does the lilo install - what else would you expect there 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try and write such a tool 8) 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) modprobe toshiba and look at http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? No. 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ Could you please send me that peace of code to parse/loading config.in, It would be interesting thing to do. Thanks, John. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
John Nilsson wrote: > > Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux > community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so > far. > > I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM > > After have tried > Slackware > Gentoo > Linux From Scratch > Debian > Mandrake > and soon ROCK linux > > I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general > desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am > really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to > damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue > rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the > drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a > little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of > installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). > > On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported > wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. > Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang > it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. > This could be X specific, but I doub't it. > > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) Take a look at http://www.linux-laptop.net It's quite useful :-) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
John Nilsson wrote: Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so far. I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: 266MHz Pentium-MMX 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) 32 Mb EDO RAM After have tried Slackware Gentoo Linux From Scratch Debian Mandrake and soon ROCK linux I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. This could be X specific, but I doub't it. So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) Take a look at http://www.linux-laptop.net It's quite useful :-) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
>From Android on Sunday, 24 June, 2001:
>>I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general
>>desktop market.
>I have to disagree on this. It runs fine on most PC's, as they use standard
>devices. Just say NO to anything proprietary. This includes Toshiba. Makers of such
>odd machines should supply their own native drivers if they want to be supported.
I would have to concur, if it weren't for almost all manufacturers doing this.
Grr.
>>5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =)
>Talk to Toshiba. See if they are willing to part with "secret" information
>so that you can create specific drivers for Linux. After that, I bet your next comp.
>won't be from them. :-)
I've been talking sometimes on the Toshiba list, trying to get Toshiba
to support Linux officially (they do *unofficially*, as shown by the
inclusion of Linux in a lot of their website). However, it doesn't
look likely.
I'd like everyone's help pressing Toshiba to open up some more of
their specs. That'd be the ideal solution. I guess I'd go for
binary-only drivers, if they'd maintain them well. It's sub-optimal,
but it's a workaround for now. :)
If you have Toshiba hardware, *please* tell them to support Linux
every chance you get. Maybe after enough feedback from the
community, they'll wise up.
Oh, FYI, I am running the unstable distribution of Debian with
the 2.4.5 kernel. Everything on my Satellite 1605CDS laptop works,
with the notable exception of the scheiss-Winmodem. I've been
talking with Conextant (the winmodem chipset manufacturers), so
I'll see where that gets me. Be sure that if I get sufficient info
(and time!!), I'll post what I know and *maybe* even deveop a
pseudo-serial port driver. That'd require a *lot* of time, though,
and time is in very short supply right now. :)
Anyway, the basic message I wanted to convey was that you need to pressure
your hardware manufacturer of choice to open up their specs so that
*everyone* can use their hardware with whatever software they choose.
It helps find bugs ("your spec says X, but the hardware *really* does
Y"), and hey, they can hire only a minimal staff to do Linux support
(if they offload the driver development and maintenance to the kernel
developers. :)
If something doesn't work with Linux, given experience and the sheer
number of developers, chances are *very* good that the manufacturer
is hoarding the specs. Unfortunately, it's a common practice that
requires a good kick in the hiney. :)
-Joseph
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"IBM were providing source code in the 1960's under similar terms.
VMS source code was available under limited licenses to customers
from the beginning. Microsoft are catching up with 1960."
--Alan Cox, http://www2.usermagnet.com/cox/index.html
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Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or >cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new >distribution. > >Well, don't do drastic things then, if that cause problems! =) First of all that part was intended as a joke ;) but what I meant is this. I think it was when installing debian I wanted to change back to ext2 from reiserfs. Trouble is for some reason their install program needs kernel 2.2.x which doesn't support reiserfs. So I had to make an ext2 partition to save all files I wanted to save. Thats when I noticed that their install program had managed to delete all my modules. So a reboot would mean loss of reiserfs support, but not to reboot would mean no ext2 support... tricky. Well I tar'ed the damn files and dd 'em to the swap parttion right after the debianinstall disk. Hmmm come to think of it I don't remmber why I wanted to change kernel on the fly... The problem was that the modules was in mem only. well well... and when it comes to the slow X.. actually eaven xdm hangs fairly often. I was running blackbox when it didn't, but then blackbox would hang. I did't really mean to drop a request list on your laps, just thought that some feed back keeps the mind going. /John Nilsson _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM I have the same machine with 64 MB ram, and it's quite well supported with linux. I do most of my daily work on it (except for large builds). I've really tried to use all the hardware in it, and everything is usable. The only minor problems are: - hibernation (yeah, unfinished ACPI work, but the machine is said to have a compliant ACPI implementation) - sound playback and recording (opl3sa2) doesn't seem to work at the same time (some DMA problem, there was a patch on the list around the 2.4.3 time but it was included somewhat differently into the ac tree, i'll try the original patch to see if it works) - ToPIC97 freezes with the yenta driver, i had to put it into ToPIC95 compatibility mode in the bios. I haven't tried the pcmcia-cs driver, but they finally claim to have the correct specs. This is as of 2.4.3-ac3, maybe it is already fixed. - the ide driver is missing, but someone already requested the specs ( http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/eng/develop.php3 ), maybe it will be available soon. But i don't think it would make much difference with a slow old notebook drive... And linux is still much faster than m$. - After resuming from APM suspend, sometimes 'hda lost interrupt', and the only escape is a hard reboot... Should try different apm settings? And the positives: toshoboe seems to stabilize, usb and X are fine, and my 3Com Megahertz 3CCFEM556 works flawlessly. I'll try to debug some of the problems, and send more usable info... -- Dani ...and Linux for all. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Dieter Nützel wrote: > > > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or > > > cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new > > > distribution. > > > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > > tandem non-stop boxes. > > SUN Enterprise I have an E1, and it cannot do it, i just can make a bring up of domains, and then boot different OS version for each domain. (I had also a little linux domain :) > IBM S/390 (zSeries) don't know about this. I was prone to think to a domain login as for Origin and SUN E1 Luigi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
John Nilsson wrote: [everything else answered by others] > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Well, don't do drastic things then, if that cause problems! My machines have both diskette and cdrom - but I _don't_ use them when changing kernels. Why should you? Here is a procedure for painless kernel change. It includes a reboot but that is not a problem: 1. Get the new kernel, i.e. compile it. 2. cp the bzImage to /boot (or wherever you want it.) DON'T overwrite the previous kernel image, you will want to keep it around. 3. If using lilo, modify /etc/lilo.conf to load the new kernel. Do this by _adding_ image=/boot/new_kernel_bzimage, not by changing existing lines. This keeps the old kernel around in case the new one have trouble. 4. run lilo 5. reboot. The new kernel should come up. (If the old comes up you either forgot (4), or you have the lilo.conf entries in a wrong order. Int the latter case press shift furing boot and select the correct kernel manually. You may correct lilo.conf later. If the new kernel loads but crash, do reboot and use the above mentioned shift-trick to select the old kernel. Then remove the broken kernel from lilo.conf and re-run lilo. As you see, no need for CD's or floppies when changing kernels, even if the new kernel fails somehow. Helge Hafting - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
David Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > if you don't preserve things running in userspace what advantage do you > have over rebooting? I use it as part of a bootloader. Allowing me to boot one kernel directly from another. I guess it really is a soft reboot that never touches any BIOS. I don't know if anyone else would get value from it. > if you do preserve userspace stuff then you need to also preserve the > kernel state related to each user process (including network connections, > etc), and here you are back into the problem that the kernel structures > may change on you. Preserving userspace without out any help from user space is quite a tricky business. Though with user space help it is fully doable though it may be a lot of work. What I have doesn't address perserving user space. I offered because I didn't know what was wanted. An easy kernel upgrade without touching running processes or a just a fast way to get into a new kernel. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
if you don't preserve things running in userspace what advantage do you have over rebooting? if you do preserve userspace stuff then you need to also preserve the kernel state related to each user process (including network connections, etc), and here you are back into the problem that the kernel structures may change on you. David Lang On 24 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Date: 24 Jun 2001 21:48:20 -0600 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: David Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: John Nilsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop > > David Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > > > this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a > > lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make > > the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel > > internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. > > What do you want this for? If you don't need to preserve user space > I have code that already does this. If you need to preserver the user > space it is a trickier problem. But I have heard rumors of a suspend > to swap patch... > > Eric > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
if you don't preserve things running in userspace what advantage do you have over rebooting? if you do preserve userspace stuff then you need to also preserve the kernel state related to each user process (including network connections, etc), and here you are back into the problem that the kernel structures may change on you. David Lang On 24 Jun 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: 24 Jun 2001 21:48:20 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: John Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop David Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. What do you want this for? If you don't need to preserve user space I have code that already does this. If you need to preserver the user space it is a trickier problem. But I have heard rumors of a suspend to swap patch... Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
David Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if you don't preserve things running in userspace what advantage do you have over rebooting? I use it as part of a bootloader. Allowing me to boot one kernel directly from another. I guess it really is a soft reboot that never touches any BIOS. I don't know if anyone else would get value from it. if you do preserve userspace stuff then you need to also preserve the kernel state related to each user process (including network connections, etc), and here you are back into the problem that the kernel structures may change on you. Preserving userspace without out any help from user space is quite a tricky business. Though with user space help it is fully doable though it may be a lot of work. What I have doesn't address perserving user space. I offered because I didn't know what was wanted. An easy kernel upgrade without touching running processes or a just a fast way to get into a new kernel. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
John Nilsson wrote: [everything else answered by others] 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Well, don't do drastic things then, if that cause problems! My machines have both diskette and cdrom - but I _don't_ use them when changing kernels. Why should you? Here is a procedure for painless kernel change. It includes a reboot but that is not a problem: 1. Get the new kernel, i.e. compile it. 2. cp the bzImage to /boot (or wherever you want it.) DON'T overwrite the previous kernel image, you will want to keep it around. 3. If using lilo, modify /etc/lilo.conf to load the new kernel. Do this by _adding_ image=/boot/new_kernel_bzimage, not by changing existing lines. This keeps the old kernel around in case the new one have trouble. 4. run lilo 5. reboot. The new kernel should come up. (If the old comes up you either forgot (4), or you have the lilo.conf entries in a wrong order. Int the latter case press shift furing boot and select the correct kernel manually. You may correct lilo.conf later. If the new kernel loads but crash, do reboot and use the above mentioned shift-trick to select the old kernel. Then remove the broken kernel from lilo.conf and re-run lilo. As you see, no need for CD's or floppies when changing kernels, even if the new kernel fails somehow. Helge Hafting - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Dieter Nützel wrote: 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. SUN Enterprise I have an E1, and it cannot do it, i just can make a bring up of domains, and then boot different OS version for each domain. (I had also a little linux domain :) IBM S/390 (zSeries) don't know about this. I was prone to think to a domain login as for Origin and SUN E1 Luigi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: 266MHz Pentium-MMX 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) 32 Mb EDO RAM I have the same machine with 64 MB ram, and it's quite well supported with linux. I do most of my daily work on it (except for large builds). I've really tried to use all the hardware in it, and everything is usable. The only minor problems are: - hibernation (yeah, unfinished ACPI work, but the machine is said to have a compliant ACPI implementation) - sound playback and recording (opl3sa2) doesn't seem to work at the same time (some DMA problem, there was a patch on the list around the 2.4.3 time but it was included somewhat differently into the ac tree, i'll try the original patch to see if it works) - ToPIC97 freezes with the yenta driver, i had to put it into ToPIC95 compatibility mode in the bios. I haven't tried the pcmcia-cs driver, but they finally claim to have the correct specs. This is as of 2.4.3-ac3, maybe it is already fixed. - the ide driver is missing, but someone already requested the specs ( http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/eng/develop.php3 ), maybe it will be available soon. But i don't think it would make much difference with a slow old notebook drive... And linux is still much faster than m$. - After resuming from APM suspend, sometimes 'hda lost interrupt', and the only escape is a hard reboot... Should try different apm settings? And the positives: toshoboe seems to stabilize, usb and X are fine, and my 3Com Megahertz 3CCFEM556 works flawlessly. I'll try to debug some of the problems, and send more usable info... -- Dani ...and Linux for all. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Well, don't do drastic things then, if that cause problems! =) First of all that part was intended as a joke ;) but what I meant is this. I think it was when installing debian I wanted to change back to ext2 from reiserfs. Trouble is for some reason their install program needs kernel 2.2.x which doesn't support reiserfs. So I had to make an ext2 partition to save all files I wanted to save. Thats when I noticed that their install program had managed to delete all my modules. So a reboot would mean loss of reiserfs support, but not to reboot would mean no ext2 support... tricky. Well I tar'ed the damn files and dd 'em to the swap parttion right after the debianinstall disk. Hmmm come to think of it I don't remmber why I wanted to change kernel on the fly... The problem was that the modules was in mem only. well well... and when it comes to the slow X.. actually eaven xdm hangs fairly often. I was running blackbox when it didn't, but then blackbox would hang. I did't really mean to drop a request list on your laps, just thought that some feed back keeps the mind going. /John Nilsson _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
From Android on Sunday, 24 June, 2001: I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general desktop market. I have to disagree on this. It runs fine on most PC's, as they use standard devices. Just say NO to anything proprietary. This includes Toshiba. Makers of such odd machines should supply their own native drivers if they want to be supported. I would have to concur, if it weren't for almost all manufacturers doing this. Grr. 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) Talk to Toshiba. See if they are willing to part with secret information so that you can create specific drivers for Linux. After that, I bet your next comp. won't be from them. :-) I've been talking sometimes on the Toshiba list, trying to get Toshiba to support Linux officially (they do *unofficially*, as shown by the inclusion of Linux in a lot of their website). However, it doesn't look likely. I'd like everyone's help pressing Toshiba to open up some more of their specs. That'd be the ideal solution. I guess I'd go for binary-only drivers, if they'd maintain them well. It's sub-optimal, but it's a workaround for now. :) If you have Toshiba hardware, *please* tell them to support Linux every chance you get. Maybe after enough feedback from the community, they'll wise up. Oh, FYI, I am running the unstable distribution of Debian with the 2.4.5 kernel. Everything on my Satellite 1605CDS laptop works, with the notable exception of the scheiss-Winmodem. I've been talking with Conextant (the winmodem chipset manufacturers), so I'll see where that gets me. Be sure that if I get sufficient info (and time!!), I'll post what I know and *maybe* even deveop a pseudo-serial port driver. That'd require a *lot* of time, though, and time is in very short supply right now. :) Anyway, the basic message I wanted to convey was that you need to pressure your hardware manufacturer of choice to open up their specs so that *everyone* can use their hardware with whatever software they choose. It helps find bugs (your spec says X, but the hardware *really* does Y), and hey, they can hire only a minimal staff to do Linux support (if they offload the driver development and maintenance to the kernel developers. :) If something doesn't work with Linux, given experience and the sheer number of developers, chances are *very* good that the manufacturer is hoarding the specs. Unfortunately, it's a common practice that requires a good kick in the hiney. :) -Joseph -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM were providing source code in the 1960's under similar terms. VMS source code was available under limited licenses to customers from the beginning. Microsoft are catching up with 1960. --Alan Cox, http://www2.usermagnet.com/cox/index.html - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
David Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a > lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make > the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel > internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. What do you want this for? If you don't need to preserve user space I have code that already does this. If you need to preserver the user space it is a trickier problem. But I have heard rumors of a suspend to swap patch... Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > tandem non-stop boxes. If you don't care about preserving user space it is a solved problem. I have a patch that is currently up to 2.4.2 that works on both alpha, and x86. Porting to other archtietures also looks very simple. I wrote it so I can use the linux kernel in conjunction with some use space code as a bootloader. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan wrote: > > > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > > So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and > install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the > killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in > files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try > and write such a tool 8) KDE-2.2 will do this. I have KDE-2.2alpha2 running here (beta1 is around the corner) and it has it included. I looked at it but didn't tested it, yet. KDE Control Center --> System --> Linux Kernel Configurator > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or > > cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new > > distribution. > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > tandem non-stop boxes. SUN Enterprise IBM S/390 (zSeries) etc... -Dieter - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
John Nilson wrote: > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig I do not understand the point. > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Unusefull and dangerous. > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig To compile a kernel someone should be able to run correctly make. Don't you think so? Also my girlfriend, who never saw a Unix system before, after a couple days spended reading during free time some documentation and help files (4 hours in two days I think) has been able to compile and install a new kernel. > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? This is an old discussion. I hope it will never be. (just my own 2 cents). > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Is it possible at all?? Luigi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and > install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the > killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in > files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try > and write such a tool 8) "make xconfig" is alerady very nice. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM tons of info out there. http://www.tce.co.jp/linux/ http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/ http://support.toshiba-tro.de/internet/info/linux/linleft.htm I've a 3010CT too, and everything is working fine including X and the LAN under linux. > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Look at loadlin + initrd. You'll have to reboot, but at least you don't need a floppy and no CD. Store your test and stable kernels on dos C drive, and boot up which ever one you like. I use a ramdisk to test my kernels so that it does not affect my stable linux on my hard disk. I do 80% of my stuffs on Linux including accessing mainframe from linux. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Monday 25 June 2001 00:12, Alan Cox wrote: > > > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > > > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > > > That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', > > no parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. > > They > > The trick if you want a good GUI environment in 32Mb is to run something > like XFce (www.xfce.org). My 32Mb test/devel box I use to prove stuff still > works sanely on non obscene computers is very happy with XFce and with > BrowseX as the web browser. > > That is mostly not a kernel problem. With XFce 3.8.3 the 32Mb box flies, > and its happy doing stuff like web browsing while playing dvd movies with > the Creative DXR2 overlay card, even though its only a Cyrix MII 233 /me downloads xfce -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> then to either a test linux or stable linux environment from the C drive. > I setup a Menu in config.sys under dos to select which linux to boot up. > If the test kernel doesn't work, I reboot the system to switch to the > stable one. At least better than carrying a floppy around. That is generally a good idea. Always keep at least one known working kernel around. Its something some distro docs don't IMHO make clear enough - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Good day, John, Alan, On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > > So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and > install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the > killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in Buildkernel, at http://buildkernel.stearns.org . It handles the entire build process, from finger to lilo. Not a gui, alas, but certainly reduces the amount of effort involved. Cheers, - Bill --- "She worked with a subdued intensity... She once told me that the only way to know when you have done something truly great is when your spine tingles." - on Alice Kober, cryptanalist, in The Code Book, Simon Singh. -- William Stearns ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Mason, Buildkernel, named2hosts, and ipfwadm2ipchains are at:http://www.pobox.com/~wstearns LinuxMonth; articles for Linux Enthusiasts! http://www.linuxmonth.com -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', no > parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. They The trick if you want a good GUI environment in 32Mb is to run something like XFce (www.xfce.org). My 32Mb test/devel box I use to prove stuff still works sanely on non obscene computers is very happy with XFce and with BrowseX as the web browser. That is mostly not a kernel problem. With XFce 3.8.3 the 32Mb box flies, and its happy doing stuff like web browsing while playing dvd movies with the Creative DXR2 overlay card, even though its only a Cyrix MII 233 Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote: > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. > > Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do > this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive > tandem non-stop boxes. I use loadlin + initrd on my Toshiba and Ibm notebook. Boot up dos first, then to either a test linux or stable linux environment from the C drive. I setup a Menu in config.sys under dos to select which linux to boot up. If the test kernel doesn't work, I reboot the system to switch to the stable one. At least better than carrying a floppy around. ps. Alan, thanks for replying to my "reiserfs replay" question. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to > the linux community. So I will tell you guys a little of my > experience with linux so far. Two words: "send patches" Please put your money where your mouth is. I mean, it's ok if you send us feature requests, but bossing us around and telling us what we "should do" while you sit back and don't do any of this isn't exactly a productive attitude. regards, Rik -- Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release: "we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL)" http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sunday 24 June 2001 22:51, John Nilsson wrote: > So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a > little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of > installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). /me has no intention of cooling down the optimization phase Good thing there are lots of other developers, huh? > On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported > wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. > Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang > it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. > This could be X specific, but I doub't it. This is an optimization issue. > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', no parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. They both need to open files less often on startup, in particular they should avoid opening the same file zillions of times. Though we have kernel optimizations for that it's still sloppy and a bad idea. > And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a > filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize > physical-file-placement? Optimization again. Wait for it, fundamental changes are taking place in the Linux filesystem world. > Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. > > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) > > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? > > 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new > distribution. It's been worked on. Google: two kernel monte Hmm, for someone who thinks we should cool down on optimization, you sure have a lot of optimizations on your wish list. -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. Already there. In fact Red Hat uses it for the scsi devices. That is what initrd is for. > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig such as ? > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig make bzlilo does the lilo install - what else would you expect there > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try and write such a tool 8) > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) modprobe toshiba and look at http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? No. > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:51:56 +0200 > From: John Nilsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Some experience of linux on a Laptop > > Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux > community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so > far. > > I have a Toshiba Portege 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM > > After have tried > Slackware > Gentoo > Linux From Scratch > Debian > Mandrake > and soon ROCK linux > well, for the most part you have been trying distros that are not designed for the desktop as much as for servers. > I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general > desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am > really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to > damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue > rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the > drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a > little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of > installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). > > On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported > wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. > Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang > it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. > This could be X specific, but I doub't it. > > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a > filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize > physical-file-placement? > > > Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. compile your kernel with all the stuff you need built in, that way you won't need modules at all (except for pcmcia stuff) > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig that's what the CPU selection is, currently that's the only optimization available > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig lilo/grub/loadlinux/bootdisks/etc are all different ways to load the kernel, the job is completely seperate from compiling the kernel and as such integrating it would just make it harder to develop better ways to load the kernel. > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) > > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? only in the idea that the people writing graphics drivers for those other systems would have to shift to writing kernel code. it would still be the same people writing the code so no big advantage here > 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. rebooting isn't that big a problem for desktop/laptop use. with lilo it's easy enough to have multiple kernels configured and boot from whichever one you want. David Lang > > I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses > > /John Nilsson > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
> >Features I would like in the kernel: > >1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > >trigged before rootmount. > > How can you load modules into the kernel before root is mounted? > No harddrive accessible means no modules. initrd ? It's quite popular feature at present. Andrzej - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
>I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general >desktop market. I have to disagree on this. It runs fine on most PC's, as they use standard devices. Just say NO to anything proprietary. This includes Toshiba. Makers of such odd machines should supply their own native drivers if they want to be supported. >Features I would like in the kernel: >1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be >trigged before rootmount. How can you load modules into the kernel before root is mounted? No harddrive accessible means no modules. >2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig >3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Why? >4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp >arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig > >5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) Talk to Toshiba. See if they are willing to part with "secret" information so that you can create specific drivers for Linux. After that, I bet your next comp. won't be from them. :-) >6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the >graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? Again, Framebuffer cannot be a module as it needs to be in place before the kernel even gets to init (the program). Since the kernel cannot load modules before the drives are mounted, no module here. >7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. Just how much detail of file usage do you want? Just open and close? Do you want reads and writes too? >8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or >cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new >distribution. > In order to change the kernel, all running processes must be terminated. How can you install a new kernel without any process to make the changeover? >I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses > >John Nilsson -- Replies by Ted - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Well, let's see: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: > Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux > community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so > far. > > I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: > 266MHz Pentium-MMX > 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) > 32 Mb EDO RAM > > After have tried > Slackware > Gentoo > Linux From Scratch > Debian > Mandrake > and soon ROCK linux > > I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general > desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am > really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to > damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue > rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the > drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a > little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of > installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). > > On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported > wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. > Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang > it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. > This could be X specific, but I doub't it. > > So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem > starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) > > And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a > filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize > physical-file-placement? > > > Features I would like in the kernel: > 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be > trigged before rootmount. Kernel module loader?, done. > > 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig I dunno what do you mean exactly with that. > 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Not the only way to start linux. Make install does with lilo. > 4: make bzImage && make modules && make modules install && cp > arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig make install?, done. > > 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) Don't have one. > > 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the > graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? Have you heard of XFree86 project?. > > 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. Logging?, it should be enough of that if you take a look at /var/log. > > 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive > in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Don't you have enough features?. When you install a new aplication you don't have to reboot three times the machine ;-) Imposible to do that for now. (Take a look at HURD). > > I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses > > /John Nilsson > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > - > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in > the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ > --- Fabian Arias Mu~oz| Debian GNU/Linux Sid Facultad de Cs. Economicas y |Kernel 2.4.5ac17 - ReiserFS Administrativas. | "aka" dewback en Universidad de Concepcion - Chile | #linuxhelp IRC.CHILE - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Well, let's see: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so far. I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: 266MHz Pentium-MMX 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) 32 Mb EDO RAM After have tried Slackware Gentoo Linux From Scratch Debian Mandrake and soon ROCK linux I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. This could be X specific, but I doub't it. So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize physical-file-placement? Features I would like in the kernel: 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be trigged before rootmount. Kernel module loader?, done. 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig I dunno what do you mean exactly with that. 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Not the only way to start linux. Make install does with lilo. 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig make install?, done. 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) Don't have one. 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? Have you heard of XFree86 project?. 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. Logging?, it should be enough of that if you take a look at /var/log. 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Don't you have enough features?. When you install a new aplication you don't have to reboot three times the machine ;-) Imposible to do that for now. (Take a look at HURD). I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses /John Nilsson _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ --- Fabian Arias Mu~oz| Debian GNU/Linux Sid Facultad de Cs. Economicas y |Kernel 2.4.5ac17 - ReiserFS Administrativas. | aka dewback en Universidad de Concepcion - Chile | #linuxhelp IRC.CHILE - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general desktop market. I have to disagree on this. It runs fine on most PC's, as they use standard devices. Just say NO to anything proprietary. This includes Toshiba. Makers of such odd machines should supply their own native drivers if they want to be supported. Features I would like in the kernel: 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be trigged before rootmount. How can you load modules into the kernel before root is mounted? No harddrive accessible means no modules. 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Why? 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) Talk to Toshiba. See if they are willing to part with secret information so that you can create specific drivers for Linux. After that, I bet your next comp. won't be from them. :-) 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? Again, Framebuffer cannot be a module as it needs to be in place before the kernel even gets to init (the program). Since the kernel cannot load modules before the drives are mounted, no module here. 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. Just how much detail of file usage do you want? Just open and close? Do you want reads and writes too? 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. In order to change the kernel, all running processes must be terminated. How can you install a new kernel without any process to make the changeover? I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses John Nilsson -- Replies by Ted - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Features I would like in the kernel: 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be trigged before rootmount. How can you load modules into the kernel before root is mounted? No harddrive accessible means no modules. initrd ? It's quite popular feature at present. Andrzej - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:51:56 +0200 From: John Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Some experience of linux on a Laptop Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so far. I have a Toshiba Portege 3010CT laptop. That is: 266MHz Pentium-MMX 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) 32 Mb EDO RAM After have tried Slackware Gentoo Linux From Scratch Debian Mandrake and soon ROCK linux well, for the most part you have been trying distros that are not designed for the desktop as much as for servers. I have come to the conclusion that linux is NOT suitable for the general desktop market, I have configured a number of linux routers/fierwalls and am really pleased with the scalability, but the harware compatibility is to damn low for a general user base. I know this isn't really a Linux issue rather a distribution issue, but in the end it's you guys that make the drivers. So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. This could be X specific, but I doub't it. So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize physical-file-placement? Features I would like in the kernel: 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be trigged before rootmount. compile your kernel with all the stuff you need built in, that way you won't need modules at all (except for pcmcia stuff) 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig that's what the CPU selection is, currently that's the only optimization available 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig lilo/grub/loadlinux/bootdisks/etc are all different ways to load the kernel, the job is completely seperate from compiling the kernel and as such integrating it would just make it harder to develop better ways to load the kernel. 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? only in the idea that the people writing graphics drivers for those other systems would have to shift to writing kernel code. it would still be the same people writing the code so no big advantage here 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. rebooting isn't that big a problem for desktop/laptop use. with lilo it's easy enough to have multiple kernels configured and boot from whichever one you want. David Lang I'm not on the list so please CC me any responses /John Nilsson _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sunday 24 June 2001 22:51, John Nilsson wrote: So a little plea is that you let the optimization phase cooldown a little and concern your self a little more with compatibility, and ease of installation, (tidy up the kernel build system). /me has no intention of cooling down the optimization phase Good thing there are lots of other developers, huh? On my particular computer the chipset (toshiba specific) is not supported wich makes the harddrive unable to run in UDMA and/or use it's cache. Somehow this make X totaly unusable. With a little luck if it doesn't hang it takes several minutes to launch a simple program. This could be X specific, but I doub't it. This is an optimization issue. So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', no parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. They both need to open files less often on startup, in particular they should avoid opening the same file zillions of times. Though we have kernel optimizations for that it's still sloppy and a bad idea. And regarding my slow HD, could anyone implment an option to mount a filesystem while keeping statistics on fileusage so that one could optimize physical-file-placement? Optimization again. Wait for it, fundamental changes are taking place in the Linux filesystem world. Features I would like in the kernel: 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be trigged before rootmount. 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? 7: As I said mount with statistics database of files. 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. It's been worked on. Google: two kernel monte Hmm, for someone who thinks we should cool down on optimization, you sure have a lot of optimizations on your wish list. -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: Well I thought that it was time for me to give some feedback to the linux community. So I will tell you guys a little of my experience with linux so far. Two words: send patches Please put your money where your mouth is. I mean, it's ok if you send us feature requests, but bossing us around and telling us what we should do while you sit back and don't do any of this isn't exactly a productive attitude. regards, Rik -- Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release: we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL) http://www.surriel.com/ http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/ - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: I have a Toshiba Portégé 3010CT laptop. That is: 266MHz Pentium-MMX 4GB HD with 512kb cache (which linux reduces to 0kb) 32 Mb EDO RAM tons of info out there. http://www.tce.co.jp/linux/ http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/ http://support.toshiba-tro.de/internet/info/linux/linleft.htm I've a 3010CT too, and everything is working fine including X and the LAN under linux. 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Look at loadlin + initrd. You'll have to reboot, but at least you don't need a floppy and no CD. Store your test and stable kernels on dos C drive, and boot up which ever one you like. I use a ramdisk to test my kernels so that it does not affect my stable linux on my hard disk. I do 80% of my stuffs on Linux including accessing mainframe from linux. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
John Nilson wrote: 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig I do not understand the point. 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig Unusefull and dangerous. 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig To compile a kernel someone should be able to run correctly make. Don't you think so? Also my girlfriend, who never saw a Unix system before, after a couple days spended reading during free time some documentation and help files (4 hours in two days I think) has been able to compile and install a new kernel. 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? This is an old discussion. I hope it will never be. (just my own 2 cents). 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Is it possible at all?? Luigi - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan wrote: 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try and write such a tool 8) KDE-2.2 will do this. I have KDE-2.2alpha2 running here (beta1 is around the corner) and it has it included. I looked at it but didn't tested it, yet. KDE Control Center -- System -- Linux Kernel Configurator 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. SUN Enterprise IBM S/390 (zSeries) etc... -Dieter - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
David Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, John Nilsson wrote: 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. this is suggested every few months, the normal answer is that there is a lot of stuff that the new kernel needs to know from the old one to make the handoff sucessful, with potentially drastic changes of the kernel internal structures it's a very difficult thing to do. What do you want this for? If you don't need to preserve user space I have code that already does this. If you need to preserver the user space it is a trickier problem. But I have heard rumors of a suspend to swap patch... Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Good day, John, Alan, On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote: 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in Buildkernel, at http://buildkernel.stearns.org . It handles the entire build process, from finger to lilo. Not a gui, alas, but certainly reduces the amount of effort involved. Cheers, - Bill --- She worked with a subdued intensity... She once told me that the only way to know when you have done something truly great is when your spine tingles. - on Alice Kober, cryptanalist, in The Code Book, Simon Singh. -- William Stearns ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Mason, Buildkernel, named2hosts, and ipfwadm2ipchains are at:http://www.pobox.com/~wstearns LinuxMonth; articles for Linux Enthusiasts! http://www.linuxmonth.com -- - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', no parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. They The trick if you want a good GUI environment in 32Mb is to run something like XFce (www.xfce.org). My 32Mb test/devel box I use to prove stuff still works sanely on non obscene computers is very happy with XFce and with BrowseX as the web browser. That is mostly not a kernel problem. With XFce 3.8.3 the 32Mb box flies, and its happy doing stuff like web browsing while playing dvd movies with the Creative DXR2 overlay card, even though its only a Cyrix MII 233 Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
then to either a test linux or stable linux environment from the C drive. I setup a Menu in config.sys under dos to select which linux to boot up. If the test kernel doesn't work, I reboot the system to switch to the stable one. At least better than carrying a floppy around. That is generally a good idea. Always keep at least one known working kernel around. Its something some distro docs don't IMHO make clear enough - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Monday 25 June 2001 00:12, Alan Cox wrote: So when you speak of being able to run on 386:es I still have problem starting X on 266MHz with 32Mb mem. This should not be =) That's true. Usually, X by itself starts pretty fast. Just try 'xinit', no parameters. KDE and Gnome both need to go on a diet, especially KDE. They The trick if you want a good GUI environment in 32Mb is to run something like XFce (www.xfce.org). My 32Mb test/devel box I use to prove stuff still works sanely on non obscene computers is very happy with XFce and with BrowseX as the web browser. That is mostly not a kernel problem. With XFce 3.8.3 the 32Mb box flies, and its happy doing stuff like web browsing while playing dvd movies with the Creative DXR2 overlay card, even though its only a Cyrix MII 233 /me downloads xfce -- Daniel - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try and write such a tool 8) make xconfig is alerady very nice. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Features I would like in the kernel: 1: Make the whole insmod-rmmod tingie a kernel internal so they could be trigged before rootmount. Already there. In fact Red Hat uses it for the scsi devices. That is what initrd is for. 2: Compile time optimization options in Make menuconfig such as ? 3: Lilo/grub config in make menuconfig make bzlilo does the lilo install - what else would you expect there 4: make bzImage make modules make modules install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/'uname -r' something inside make menuconfig So really you want an outside GUI tool that lets you reconfigure build and install kernels. Yeah I'd agree with that. Someone just needs to write the killer gnome/kde config tool. I've got C code for parsing/loading config.in files and deducing the dependancy constraints if anyone ever wants to try and write such a tool 8) 5: Better support for toshiba computers... well try =) modprobe toshiba and look at http://www.buzzard.org.uk/toshiba/ 6: Wouldn't it be easier for svgalib/framebuffer/GGI/X11 and others if the graphiccard drivers where kernel modules? No. 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. Alan - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Alan Cox wrote: 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. I use loadlin + initrd on my Toshiba and Ibm notebook. Boot up dos first, then to either a test linux or stable linux environment from the C drive. I setup a Menu in config.sys under dos to select which linux to boot up. If the test kernel doesn't work, I reboot the system to switch to the stable one. At least better than carrying a floppy around. ps. Alan, thanks for replying to my reiserfs replay question. Jeff - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: Some experience of linux on a Laptop
Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 8: A way to change kernel without rebooting. I have no diskdrive or cddrive in my laptop so I often do drastic things when I install a new distribution. Thats actually an incredibly hard problem to solve. The only people who do this level of stuff are some of the telephony folks, and the expensive tandem non-stop boxes. If you don't care about preserving user space it is a solved problem. I have a patch that is currently up to 2.4.2 that works on both alpha, and x86. Porting to other archtietures also looks very simple. I wrote it so I can use the linux kernel in conjunction with some use space code as a bootloader. Eric - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
