Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
Yes. See arisc in the kernel sources. Unfortunately the available information is very limited. Only some general headers and a binary blob with DRAM code and maybe something more.. Regards Henrik lör 2014-10-04 klockan 12:47 -0700 skrev javqui: > I read in some A80 datasheet (or in some place in so many post around) > about an additional Cortex-M3 inside the A80. I don't have any idea > about it. > > On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 3:45:06 AM UTC-4, Maxime Ripard wrote: > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 01:46:50PM -0700, javqui wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic > Micro controller > > features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and > the classic > > UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. > > > > Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware > interfaces (like > > Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional > drivers and > > interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we > solve the > > interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other > specialized chip > > interfaces available. > > > > Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a > Cortex A SoC like > > Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like > the STM32 > > series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. > > > > I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to > customize the > > kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x > A15+ GPU and > > Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the > Allwinner A80 Soc. (I > > made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but > never try to run > > two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) > > > > Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic > real time > > response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). > > User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only > eventual, so termal > > issues by running almost all processors at the same time > occasionally, > > should not be a problem. > > > > If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel > of this type, > > please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share > the results > > and evaluation test here > > What might be easier for you, and probably less intrusive from > the > kernel point of view, would be to use the co-processor that > some > Allwinner SoCs have. I know the A31 has one, and I'm pretty > sure the > A80 too. > > That would leave Linux in charge of the "real" CPUs, while > offloading > your RT tasks to a smaller processor, without having to deal > with all > the segmentation in the bootloader. > > And if you're used to using Cortex-M, you shouldn't need all > that > horsepower anyway. > > Maxime > > -- > Maxime Ripard, Free Electrons > Embedded Linux, Kernel and Android engineering > http://free-electrons.com > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "linux-sunxi" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
I read in some A80 datasheet (or in some place in so many post around) about an additional Cortex-M3 inside the A80. I don't have any idea about it. On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 3:45:06 AM UTC-4, Maxime Ripard wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 01:46:50PM -0700, javqui wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro > controller > > features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the classic > > UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. > > > > Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces > (like > > Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers and > > interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the > > interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip > > interfaces available. > > > > Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC > like > > Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 > > series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. > > > > I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the > > kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and > > Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. > (I > > made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to > run > > two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) > > > > Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time > > response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). > > User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so > termal > > issues by running almost all processors at the same time occasionally, > > should not be a problem. > > > > If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this > type, > > please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the results > > and evaluation test here > > What might be easier for you, and probably less intrusive from the > kernel point of view, would be to use the co-processor that some > Allwinner SoCs have. I know the A31 has one, and I'm pretty sure the > A80 too. > > That would leave Linux in charge of the "real" CPUs, while offloading > your RT tasks to a smaller processor, without having to deal with all > the segmentation in the bootloader. > > And if you're used to using Cortex-M, you shouldn't need all that > horsepower anyway. > > Maxime > > -- > Maxime Ripard, Free Electrons > Embedded Linux, Kernel and Android engineering > http://free-electrons.com > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
Thanks for your observations and links. I really appreciate. On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 3:38:58 AM UTC-4, Jorge Nerín wrote: > > You'll need to run an hypervisor to arbitre the access to shared resources > for the two OSs, look at > http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions/Allwinner > http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions I > believe there was some demo of a tablet running two android using Xen. > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:18 PM, javqui > > wrote: > >> Maybe a complete separate OS is a little easier than implement a modified >> Linux Kernel as you did (impressive Job) >> >> Maybe the "Kernel" is not the right word in my first post and a >> "customized boot" will be a better definition. The system will have 2 >> simultaneous OS kernels. For the Linux Kernel OS perspective, the A7 will >> not exist. From the Nucleus kernel perspective, the A15 will not exist. The >> interaction and potential sync events will happen in shared memory with >> adequate "traffic lights" or/and "external" interrupts (like a peripheral). >> Memory protection domains for each OS will avoid a lot of problems and the >> A80 (ARM Big.Litte) provide this secure feature according with the very >> basic A80 datasheet available. >> >> An implementation of this type could replace many non-traditional product >> designs with a single A80. A80 looks like was designed with tablet and >> smartphone markets in mind, but it could have access to a larger market and >> developers. >> >> A minimum starting point documentation (A80 user manual) is mandatory to >> start moving the current projects to A80 platform and to start recommending >> it for new projects. Anyone that could help with the user manual, please >> contact me directly. >> >> Javqui >> >> >> On Monday, September 29, 2014 8:57:17 PM UTC-4, Zhao Zhili wrote: >>> >>> Such a big plan. I just did a small project with (Real-time patch for >>> linux kernel) + (processor affinity) + (super loop) on A20. >>> Since A20 has two A7, a real time process can occupy a processor and >>> leave the other for other tasks. With out a working >>> main line kernel, it seems like you have a lot of work to do to >>> customize the kernel. >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:46 AM, javqui wrote: >>> Hi, I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro controller features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the classic UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces (like Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers and interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip interfaces available. Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time occasionally, should not be a problem. If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this type, please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the results and evaluation test here Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get the A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require access to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the user manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related with the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. Javqui -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "linux-sunxi" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to linux-su
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
Make an asymmetric configuration could be very complex. Board arrived, so I will start working on the product features first and then with the dual OS Mix. Hope have something useful by the end of October. Will be a single image for both OS. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:00:58 PM UTC-4, Jhon Yi wrote: > > This project is amazing. It will be very useful in industrial and > control area. I have two question: 1. Since you only need one or two > A7 cores to run RTOS, why not let the remaining A7 run Linux together > with A15 since this will use less power? 2. Are you going to build > only one image contain two kernel? > Thank you and hope to see progress. > > > 2014-09-30 23:18 GMT+08:00 javqui >: > > Maybe a complete separate OS is a little easier than implement a > modified > > Linux Kernel as you did (impressive Job) > > > > Maybe the "Kernel" is not the right word in my first post and a > "customized > > boot" will be a better definition. The system will have 2 simultaneous > OS > > kernels. For the Linux Kernel OS perspective, the A7 will not exist. > From > > the Nucleus kernel perspective, the A15 will not exist. The interaction > and > > potential sync events will happen in shared memory with adequate > "traffic > > lights" or/and "external" interrupts (like a peripheral). Memory > protection > > domains for each OS will avoid a lot of problems and the A80 (ARM > Big.Litte) > > provide this secure feature according with the very basic A80 datasheet > > available. > > > > An implementation of this type could replace many non-traditional > product > > designs with a single A80. A80 looks like was designed with tablet and > > smartphone markets in mind, but it could have access to a larger market > and > > developers. > > > > A minimum starting point documentation (A80 user manual) is mandatory to > > start moving the current projects to A80 platform and to start > recommending > > it for new projects. Anyone that could help with the user manual, please > > contact me directly. > > > > Javqui > > > > > > On Monday, September 29, 2014 8:57:17 PM UTC-4, Zhao Zhili wrote: > >> > >> Such a big plan. I just did a small project with (Real-time patch for > >> linux kernel) + (processor affinity) + (super loop) on A20. > >> Since A20 has two A7, a real time process can occupy a processor and > leave > >> the other for other tasks. With out a working > >> main line kernel, it seems like you have a lot of work to do to > customize > >> the kernel. > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:46 AM, javqui wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro > >>> controller features (low power, deterministic real time processing) > and the > >>> classic UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. > >>> > >>> Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces > >>> (like Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional > drivers > >>> and interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve > the > >>> interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip > >>> interfaces available. > >>> > >>> Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC > >>> like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the > STM32 > >>> series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. > >>> > >>> I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize > the > >>> kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU > and > >>> Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 > Soc. (I > >>> made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to > run > >>> two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) > >>> > >>> Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time > >>> response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). > >>> User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so > >>> termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time > >>> occasionally, should not be a problem. > >>> > >>> If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this > >>> type, please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the > >>> results and evaluation test here > >>> > >>> Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get > the > >>> A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require > access > >>> to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the user > >>> manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related > with > >>> the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. > >>> > >>> Javqui > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >>> "linux-sunxi" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and sto
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
ons 2014-10-01 klockan 09:38 +0200 skrev Jorge: > You'll need to run an hypervisor to arbitre the access to shared > resources for the two OSs Not really if all you want is to run a simple RTOS on one core, and not sharing any I/O resources. To do that basically all you need is to reserve the memory and CPU so the Linux kenel don't stomp on it. But yes, using a hypervisor like XEN gives you a more flexible separation and plenty of options and cleaner upgrade path to other hardware. Keep in mind that there is some vital shared resources like PLL, SDRAM, CPU cache and a bit more that will cause sideeffects on the RTOS from the concurrently running Linux part. Regarding using the OpenRISC(?) co-processor in later Allwinner CPUs then it looks like Allwinner is sitting tight on it's specifications and toolchain requirements, so using it is not really a viable option. The one seen in A31 looked like a plain OpenRISC one, but in A80 I am not so sure what it is, and the largest piece of code blob for it in the SDK seems to be encrypted for some strange reason. Regards Henrik -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 09:19 +0100, Ian Campbell wrote: > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 09:38 +0200, Jorge wrote: > > You'll need to run an hypervisor to arbitre the access to shared > > resources for the two OSs, look > > at > > http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions/Allwinner > > http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions I > > believe there was some demo of a tablet running two android using Xen. > > ... > > This is exactly what I was about to suggest ;-). > > There is quite a bit of interest in running Xen on ARM from the embedded > space, people are using it for in car infotainment systems, autopilot > software for quadcopters and all sorts of interesting stuff these days. > I know that people are certainly running FreeRTOS on top of Xen (the > other one I've heard is QNX). I should have said that if you want to know more check out the presentations from the last two Xen Developer Summits in Edinburgh and Chicago. http://xenproject.org/component/content/article/9-uncategorised/159-xen-project-developer-summit-2013-videos-and-presentations.html and I'm not sure the 2014 videos are posted yet but slides seem to be at http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/xen-project-developer-summit/program/slides. There were quite a number of Xen on embedded ARM talks. Ian. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 09:38 +0200, Jorge wrote: > You'll need to run an hypervisor to arbitre the access to shared > resources for the two OSs, look > at http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions/Allwinner > http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions I > believe there was some demo of a tablet running two android using Xen. ... This is exactly what I was about to suggest ;-). There is quite a bit of interest in running Xen on ARM from the embedded space, people are using it for in car infotainment systems, autopilot software for quadcopters and all sorts of interesting stuff these days. I know that people are certainly running FreeRTOS on top of Xen (the other one I've heard is QNX). Xen has a pluggable scheduler architecture and includes a couple of RT capable schedulers (arinc and a new EDF one in upcoming 4.5) and you can even divide the system's physical CPUs into pools and run a different scheduler on each pool (useful to divide processors into RT and regular sets and assign domains to pools accordingly). The Allwinner platform is well supported (it was one of the earliest supported platforms). In fact I'm in the process of deploying 4x cubietrucks into the Xen Project's automated test system. Still quite a bit of soldering and wiring to do to get it all rack friendly and power controlled etc though ;-) Ian. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 01:46:50PM -0700, javqui wrote: > Hi, > I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro controller > features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the classic > UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. > > Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces (like > Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers and > interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the > interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip > interfaces available. > > Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC like > Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 > series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. > > I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the > kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and > Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I > made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run > two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) > > Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time > response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). > User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so termal > issues by running almost all processors at the same time occasionally, > should not be a problem. > > If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this type, > please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the results > and evaluation test here What might be easier for you, and probably less intrusive from the kernel point of view, would be to use the co-processor that some Allwinner SoCs have. I know the A31 has one, and I'm pretty sure the A80 too. That would leave Linux in charge of the "real" CPUs, while offloading your RT tasks to a smaller processor, without having to deal with all the segmentation in the bootloader. And if you're used to using Cortex-M, you shouldn't need all that horsepower anyway. Maxime -- Maxime Ripard, Free Electrons Embedded Linux, Kernel and Android engineering http://free-electrons.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
You'll need to run an hypervisor to arbitre the access to shared resources for the two OSs, look at http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions/Allwinner http://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_ARM_with_Virtualization_Extensions I believe there was some demo of a tablet running two android using Xen. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:18 PM, javqui wrote: > Maybe a complete separate OS is a little easier than implement a modified > Linux Kernel as you did (impressive Job) > > Maybe the "Kernel" is not the right word in my first post and a > "customized boot" will be a better definition. The system will have 2 > simultaneous OS kernels. For the Linux Kernel OS perspective, the A7 will > not exist. From the Nucleus kernel perspective, the A15 will not exist. The > interaction and potential sync events will happen in shared memory with > adequate "traffic lights" or/and "external" interrupts (like a peripheral). > Memory protection domains for each OS will avoid a lot of problems and the > A80 (ARM Big.Litte) provide this secure feature according with the very > basic A80 datasheet available. > > An implementation of this type could replace many non-traditional product > designs with a single A80. A80 looks like was designed with tablet and > smartphone markets in mind, but it could have access to a larger market and > developers. > > A minimum starting point documentation (A80 user manual) is mandatory to > start moving the current projects to A80 platform and to start recommending > it for new projects. Anyone that could help with the user manual, please > contact me directly. > > Javqui > > > On Monday, September 29, 2014 8:57:17 PM UTC-4, Zhao Zhili wrote: >> >> Such a big plan. I just did a small project with (Real-time patch for >> linux kernel) + (processor affinity) + (super loop) on A20. >> Since A20 has two A7, a real time process can occupy a processor and >> leave the other for other tasks. With out a working >> main line kernel, it seems like you have a lot of work to do to customize >> the kernel. >> >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:46 AM, javqui wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro >>> controller features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the >>> classic UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. >>> >>> Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces >>> (like Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers >>> and interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the >>> interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip >>> interfaces available. >>> >>> Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC >>> like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 >>> series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. >>> >>> I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the >>> kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and >>> Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I >>> made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run >>> two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) >>> >>> Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time >>> response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). >>> User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so >>> termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time >>> occasionally, should not be a problem. >>> >>> If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this >>> type, please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the >>> results and evaluation test here >>> >>> Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get >>> the A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require >>> access to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the >>> user manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related >>> with the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. >>> >>> Javqui >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "linux-sunxi" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to linux-sunxi...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "linux-sunxi" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Jorge Nerín -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunx
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
This project is amazing. It will be very useful in industrial and control area. I have two question: 1. Since you only need one or two A7 cores to run RTOS, why not let the remaining A7 run Linux together with A15 since this will use less power? 2. Are you going to build only one image contain two kernel? Thank you and hope to see progress. 2014-09-30 23:18 GMT+08:00 javqui : > Maybe a complete separate OS is a little easier than implement a modified > Linux Kernel as you did (impressive Job) > > Maybe the "Kernel" is not the right word in my first post and a "customized > boot" will be a better definition. The system will have 2 simultaneous OS > kernels. For the Linux Kernel OS perspective, the A7 will not exist. From > the Nucleus kernel perspective, the A15 will not exist. The interaction and > potential sync events will happen in shared memory with adequate "traffic > lights" or/and "external" interrupts (like a peripheral). Memory protection > domains for each OS will avoid a lot of problems and the A80 (ARM Big.Litte) > provide this secure feature according with the very basic A80 datasheet > available. > > An implementation of this type could replace many non-traditional product > designs with a single A80. A80 looks like was designed with tablet and > smartphone markets in mind, but it could have access to a larger market and > developers. > > A minimum starting point documentation (A80 user manual) is mandatory to > start moving the current projects to A80 platform and to start recommending > it for new projects. Anyone that could help with the user manual, please > contact me directly. > > Javqui > > > On Monday, September 29, 2014 8:57:17 PM UTC-4, Zhao Zhili wrote: >> >> Such a big plan. I just did a small project with (Real-time patch for >> linux kernel) + (processor affinity) + (super loop) on A20. >> Since A20 has two A7, a real time process can occupy a processor and leave >> the other for other tasks. With out a working >> main line kernel, it seems like you have a lot of work to do to customize >> the kernel. >> >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:46 AM, javqui wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro >>> controller features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the >>> classic UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. >>> >>> Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces >>> (like Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers >>> and interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the >>> interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip >>> interfaces available. >>> >>> Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC >>> like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 >>> series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. >>> >>> I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the >>> kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and >>> Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I >>> made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run >>> two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) >>> >>> Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time >>> response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). >>> User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so >>> termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time >>> occasionally, should not be a problem. >>> >>> If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this >>> type, please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the >>> results and evaluation test here >>> >>> Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get the >>> A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require access >>> to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the user >>> manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related with >>> the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. >>> >>> Javqui >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "linux-sunxi" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to linux-sunxi...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "linux-sunxi" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubs
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
Maybe a complete separate OS is a little easier than implement a modified Linux Kernel as you did (impressive Job) Maybe the "Kernel" is not the right word in my first post and a "customized boot" will be a better definition. The system will have 2 simultaneous OS kernels. For the Linux Kernel OS perspective, the A7 will not exist. From the Nucleus kernel perspective, the A15 will not exist. The interaction and potential sync events will happen in shared memory with adequate "traffic lights" or/and "external" interrupts (like a peripheral). Memory protection domains for each OS will avoid a lot of problems and the A80 (ARM Big.Litte) provide this secure feature according with the very basic A80 datasheet available. An implementation of this type could replace many non-traditional product designs with a single A80. A80 looks like was designed with tablet and smartphone markets in mind, but it could have access to a larger market and developers. A minimum starting point documentation (A80 user manual) is mandatory to start moving the current projects to A80 platform and to start recommending it for new projects. Anyone that could help with the user manual, please contact me directly. Javqui On Monday, September 29, 2014 8:57:17 PM UTC-4, Zhao Zhili wrote: > > Such a big plan. I just did a small project with (Real-time patch for > linux kernel) + (processor affinity) + (super loop) on A20. > Since A20 has two A7, a real time process can occupy a processor and leave > the other for other tasks. With out a working > main line kernel, it seems like you have a lot of work to do to customize > the kernel. > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:46 AM, javqui > > wrote: > >> Hi, >> I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro >> controller features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the >> classic UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. >> >> Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces >> (like Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers >> and interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the >> interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip >> interfaces available. >> >> Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC >> like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 >> series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. >> >> I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the >> kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and >> Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I >> made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run >> two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) >> >> Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time >> response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). >> User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so >> termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time >> occasionally, should not be a problem. >> >> If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this >> type, please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the >> results and evaluation test here >> >> Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get the >> A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require access >> to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the user >> manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related with >> the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. >> >> Javqui >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "linux-sunxi" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to linux-sunxi...@googlegroups.com . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
On Tuesday, September 30, 2014, Quink wrote: > Such a big plan. I just did a small project with (Real-time patch for linux kernel) + (processor affinity) + (super loop) on A20. > Since A20 has two A7, a real time process can occupy a processor and leave the other for other tasks. With out a working > main line kernel, it seems like you have a lot of work to do to customize the kernel. Could you share how you did it? > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:46 AM, javqui wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro controller features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the classic UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. >> >> Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces (like Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers and interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip interfaces available. >> >> Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. >> >> I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) >> >> Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). >> User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time occasionally, should not be a problem. >> >> If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this type, please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the results and evaluation test here >> >> Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get the A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require access to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the user manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related with the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. >> >> Javqui >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Benjamin Henrion FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-4148403 "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy. Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or democratically elected legislators." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
Such a big plan. I just did a small project with (Real-time patch for linux kernel) + (processor affinity) + (super loop) on A20. Since A20 has two A7, a real time process can occupy a processor and leave the other for other tasks. With out a working main line kernel, it seems like you have a lot of work to do to customize the kernel. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 4:46 AM, javqui wrote: > Hi, > I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro controller > features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the classic > UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. > > Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces (like > Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers and > interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the > interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip > interfaces available. > > Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC > like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 > series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. > > I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the > kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and > Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I > made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run > two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) > > Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time > response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). > User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so > termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time > occasionally, should not be a problem. > > If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this type, > please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the results > and evaluation test here > > Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get the > A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require access > to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the user > manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related with > the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. > > Javqui > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "linux-sunxi" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[linux-sunxi] A80 mixed OS (Linux / RTOS)
Hi, I'm working on a couple of projects requiring the classic Micro controller features (low power, deterministic real time processing) and the classic UX, flexibility and functionality of Linux /android. Most SoCs today provide many high level external hardware interfaces (like Camera, USB, HDMI, etc) but some projects require additional drivers and interfaces to handle different external hardware. Usually we solve the interconnectivity with extra MCUs, FPGAs or other specialized chip interfaces available. Sometimes, we design product boards with two solutions: a Cortex A SoC like Allwinner/rockchip/Omap series and a small MCU Cortex M like the STM32 series, but with a powerful A80, it could change forever. I will receive my first Optimus board soon, and I want to customize the kernel to create a classic Linux running on the powerful 4x A15+ GPU and Nucleus (or Free RTOS) on one or two of the A7 of the Allwinner A80 Soc. (I made similar kernel works with MTK SoCs in the past, but never try to run two operating systems in the same chip at the same time) Both projects require continuous operation and deterministic real time response on the low power processor(s) (RTOS on A7). User interaction (Linux on the A15 + GPU side ) is only eventual, so termal issues by running almost all processors at the same time occasionally, should not be a problem. If anyone anticipate a significant barrier to build a kernel of this type, please share it here, I will really appreciate. I will share the results and evaluation test here Additionally I will really appreciate if someone could help me to get the A80 user manual, (please contact me by email). Both projects require access to low level A80 features for special hardware interfaces and the user manual is a must for both projects and future product projects related with the A80. I want to switch almost all my projects to Allwinner A80. Javqui -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to linux-sunxi+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
