Re: workstation power consumption

2007-09-22 Thread yuri
On 21/09/2007, Roger Searle wrote:
> Marginally on / off topic I guess...  I am interested in quantifying how
> much it costs to leave a computer running over night, and therefore what
> the power saving is per year to an organisation if computers that are
> otherwise left running all night are turned off via a schedule.

Two things to remember are:
 1) Computers in standby mode have a power factor of around 0.01
 2) Businesses pay for apparent power rather than actual power.

Yuri


Re: Image files of Linux and Unix on St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre computers.

2007-09-22 Thread Aaron Christensen
Canterbury University has repo of various Linux distros available on the uni
network. If you are interested in what they have e-mail me and I'll get a
list of what's there.

Aaron

On 9/19/07, Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Greetings CLUGgers,
>
>   The recent thread which bemoaned the absence of a Definiitve Source
> for Linux in Christchurch has triggered Wesley and I to set up an
> archive of Linux Distros.
>
>   In conjuction with the St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre -
> That's the place where we meet each month - we have created a goodly,
> but by no means complete, collection of Linux and Unix disks. The
> Centre is open for business between 11:00am and 3:00pm every weekday
> and 1:00pm till 3:00 pm. on Saturdays.
>
> Go here for the list of Distros:-  http://berty.dyndns.org/NN_Images.txt
> and  here for a Street map:-  http://tinyurl.com/ytbmb4
>
>
> This is neither a download mirror, nor a Linux by post service - You
> have to turn up in person with loose change in your pocket to buy a
> CD/DVD.
>
> Alternatively a USB device with a Windows compatible file-system and
> sufficient free space
> is also possible.
>
> As this is all new to the Centre, I suggest a slow start. They won't
> be able to service dozens of CLUGgers turning up at lunchtime on
> Monday. It might be best to wait until Tuesday when Wesley is working
> there.
>
> Donations of other distributions to add to the collection would be
> welcome.
>
> --
> Sincerely etc.
> Christopher Sawtell
>


Re: Image files of Linux and Unix on St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre computers.

2007-09-22 Thread Christopher Sawtell
Many thanks. That would be interesting.

I've just made an executive decision that we are not interested in
maintaining a historical archive, but other than that all-comers are
welcome, In particular *BSD distributions other than FreeBSD and
PC-BSD which we have already.





On 9/22/07, Aaron Christensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Canterbury University has repo of various Linux distros available on the uni
> network. If you are interested in what they have e-mail me and I'll get a
> list of what's there.
>
> Aaron
>
> On 9/19/07, Christopher Sawtell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings CLUGgers,
> >
> >   The recent thread which bemoaned the absence of a Definiitve Source
> > for Linux in Christchurch has triggered Wesley and I to set up an
> > archive of Linux Distros.
> >
> >   In conjuction with the St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre -
> > That's the place where we meet each month - we have created a goodly,
> > but by no means complete, collection of Linux and Unix disks. The
> > Centre is open for business between 11:00am and 3:00pm every weekday
> > and 1:00pm till 3:00 pm. on Saturdays.
> >
> > Go here for the list of Distros:-  http://berty.dyndns.org/NN_Images.txt
> > and  here for a Street map:-  http://tinyurl.com/ytbmb4
> >
> >
> > This is neither a download mirror, nor a Linux by post service - You
> > have to turn up in person with loose change in your pocket to buy a
> > CD/DVD.
> >
> > Alternatively a USB device with a Windows compatible file-system and
> > sufficient free space
> > is also possible.
> >
> > As this is all new to the Centre, I suggest a slow start. They won't
> > be able to service dozens of CLUGgers turning up at lunchtime on
> > Monday. It might be best to wait until Tuesday when Wesley is working
> > there.
> >
> > Donations of other distributions to add to the collection would be
> > welcome.
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely etc.
> > Christopher Sawtell
> >
>


-- 
Sincerely etc.
Christopher Sawtell


Re: Image files of Linux and Unix on St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre computers.

2007-09-22 Thread Volker Kuhlmann
> Canterbury University has repo of various Linux distros available on the uni
> network. If you are interested in what they have e-mail me and I'll get a
> list of what's there.

This is only of use to those with network access to the campus network.
Make sure to make this clear if you put online what's there.

Volker

-- 
Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header
http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.


Re: Image files of Linux and Unix on St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre computers.

2007-09-22 Thread Raffael
Volker Kuhlmann wrote:
>> Canterbury University has repo of various Linux distros available on the uni
>> network. If you are interested in what they have e-mail me and I'll get a
>> list of what's there.
> 
> This is only of use to those with network access to the campus network.
> Make sure to make this clear if you put online what's there.
> 
Uhh, when I asked the IT-Dep. for some Ubuntu support, they said they
don't have anything... and send me to the COSC Dep., they at least have
fedora on the net...

Cheers,
 Raffael



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature


Re: Image files of Linux and Unix on St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre computers.

2007-09-22 Thread SegnaroSoftware
I have a few distro isos and other handy isos I can contribute (although 
some may be out of date):


OpenCD-4.0.iso
OpenCD-7.04.iso

lamppix-mini-1.1.iso
DeveLinux-0.1.iso
dsl-3.1RC1-syslinux.iso
dyne-2.2.iso
gnoppix-stable-i386.iso
hurd-live-cd-20051117.iso
Overclockix_LTSP21.iso
slampp-lite-2.0.iso
slax-killbill-5.1.8.iso
slax-popcorn-5.1.8.iso
slax-server-5.1.8.iso
ubuntu_lite1.1.iso
xubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso
bt2final.iso (BackTrace?)
foresight-1.3.1-x86-dvd1.iso
foresight-2.18.1-x86.iso
install-x86-minimal-2007.0-r1.iso (Gentoo?)
kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
livecd-i686-installer-2007.0.iso (Gentoo?)
mythbuntu-7.04~070603-i386.iso
pclinuxos-2007.iso
edubuntu-7.04-i386.iso
edubuntu-6.06-i386.iso
kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
kubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
ubuntustudio-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
xubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso

debian-40r0-i386-businesscard.iso
debian-40r0-i386-CD-1.iso
...
debian-40r0-i386-CD-21.iso
debian-40r0-i386-kde-CD-1.iso
debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso
debian-40r0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso

...among others.

If any of these isos would be of any use, and someone could suggest a 
way of transporting them around the corner from my house, I will happily 
share.


- Kale Worsley


Re: Image files of Linux and Unix on St. Albans Neighbourhood Resource Centre computers.

2007-09-22 Thread Christopher Sawtell
On 9/23/07, SegnaroSoftware <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a few distro isos and other handy isos I can contribute (although
> some may be out of date):
"few" - Wow!
We have only 50Gbytes of storage available so I have had to make
the decision that we can't store files which are not current.

> OpenCD-4.0.iso
> OpenCD-7.04.iso

> lamppix-mini-1.1.iso
> DeveLinux-0.1.iso
> dsl-3.1RC1-syslinux.iso
> dyne-2.2.iso
> gnoppix-stable-i386.iso
> hurd-live-cd-20051117.iso
> Overclockix_LTSP21.iso
> slampp-lite-2.0.iso
> slax-killbill-5.1.8.iso
> slax-popcorn-5.1.8.iso
> slax-server-5.1.8.iso
> ubuntu_lite1.1.iso
> xubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso
> bt2final.iso (BackTrace?)
> foresight-1.3.1-x86-dvd1.iso
> foresight-2.18.1-x86.iso

> install-x86-minimal-2007.0-r1.iso (Gentoo?)
> kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso

> mythbuntu-7.04~070603-i386.iso
> pclinuxos-2007.iso
This one is interesting.

> edubuntu-7.04-i386.iso
> edubuntu-6.06-i386.iso
> kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
> kubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
> ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
> ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
> ubuntustudio-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
> xubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
> xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
Many of these *buntu ones are of considerable interest.

> debian-40r0-i386-businesscard.iso
> debian-40r0-i386-CD-1.iso
> ...
> debian-40r0-i386-CD-21.iso
> debian-40r0-i386-kde-CD-1.iso
> debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso
> debian-40r0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso
We have much/most of the 40r1 set, so many of these are thanks, but no thanks.

> ...among others.
>
> If any of these isos would be of any use, and someone could suggest a
> way of transporting them around the corner from my house,
Sounds like a "hand and foot" job to me. :-)

> I will happily share.
Many thanks.
When would you like me to come around to pick up the files?

-- 
Sincerely etc.
Christopher Sawtell


$20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Don Gould

Do we need to put the pot around for some drive space?

How many more disks could be squash into those machines?

I'll put up $20 towards some drive space.

5 other people want to match me and we can go get a 320gb disk.

Cheers Don

Christopher Sawtell wrote:

On 9/23/07, SegnaroSoftware <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have a few distro isos and other handy isos I can contribute (although
some may be out of date):

"few" - Wow!
We have only 50Gbytes of storage available so I have had to make
the decision that we can't store files which are not current.


OpenCD-4.0.iso
OpenCD-7.04.iso



lamppix-mini-1.1.iso
DeveLinux-0.1.iso
dsl-3.1RC1-syslinux.iso
dyne-2.2.iso
gnoppix-stable-i386.iso
hurd-live-cd-20051117.iso
Overclockix_LTSP21.iso
slampp-lite-2.0.iso
slax-killbill-5.1.8.iso
slax-popcorn-5.1.8.iso
slax-server-5.1.8.iso
ubuntu_lite1.1.iso
xubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso
bt2final.iso (BackTrace?)
foresight-1.3.1-x86-dvd1.iso
foresight-2.18.1-x86.iso



install-x86-minimal-2007.0-r1.iso (Gentoo?)
kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso



mythbuntu-7.04~070603-i386.iso
pclinuxos-2007.iso

This one is interesting.


edubuntu-7.04-i386.iso
edubuntu-6.06-i386.iso
kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
kubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
ubuntustudio-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
xubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso

Many of these *buntu ones are of considerable interest.


debian-40r0-i386-businesscard.iso
debian-40r0-i386-CD-1.iso
...
debian-40r0-i386-CD-21.iso
debian-40r0-i386-kde-CD-1.iso
debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso
debian-40r0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso

We have much/most of the 40r1 set, so many of these are thanks, but no thanks.


...among others.

If any of these isos would be of any use, and someone could suggest a
way of transporting them around the corner from my house,

Sounds like a "hand and foot" job to me. :-)


I will happily share.

Many thanks.
When would you like me to come around to pick up the files?



--
Don Gould
2/59 Peverel Street, Riccarton, Christchurch, New Zealand
Phone: +64 3 348 7235 - Mobile: +64 21 114 0699
skype:ThinkDesignPrint?add
www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/funny - www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/benjamin/
www.thinkdesignprint.co.nz - www.tcn.bowenvale.co.nz - 
www.bowenvale.co.nz - www.hearingbooks.co.nz - www.crra.org.nz - 
www.les.org.nz - www.buxtonsquare.co.nz -  - Good ideas: 
www.solarking.co.nz




Re: $20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Philip Charles
On Sunday 23 September 2007 13:06, Don Gould wrote:
> Do we need to put the pot around for some drive space?
>
> How many more disks could be squash into those machines?
>
> I'll put up $20 towards some drive space.
>
> 5 other people want to match me and we can go get a 320gb disk.
>

This might help.  I have ~125 gig of current distros.  Another 60-70 gig 
will be added when I put Lenny on the market.

Phil.

-- 
  Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand
   +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 027 663 4453
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] - personal.[EMAIL PROTECTED] - business


Re: $20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Don Gould



Philip Charles wrote:

On Sunday 23 September 2007 13:06, Don Gould wrote:

Do we need to put the pot around for some drive space?

How many more disks could be squash into those machines?

I'll put up $20 towards some drive space.

5 other people want to match me and we can go get a 320gb disk.



This might help.  I have ~125 gig of current distros.  Another 60-70 gig 
will be added when I put Lenny on the market.


Lenny?  I'm confused

Did I miss beat here?

Cheers Don


Re: $20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Philip Charles
On Sunday 23 September 2007 14:39, Don Gould wrote:
> Philip Charles wrote:
> > On Sunday 23 September 2007 13:06, Don Gould wrote:
> >> Do we need to put the pot around for some drive space?
> >>
> >> How many more disks could be squash into those machines?
> >>
> >> I'll put up $20 towards some drive space.
> >>
> >> 5 other people want to match me and we can go get a 320gb disk.
> >
> > This might help.  I have ~125 gig of current distros.  Another 60-70
> > gig will be added when I put Lenny on the market.
>
> Lenny?  I'm confused
>
> Did I miss beat here?
>
> Cheers Don

Lenny = the current Debian testing.  23 CDs at the moment.

Phil.

-- 
  Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand
   +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 027 663 4453
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] - personal.[EMAIL PROTECTED] - business


Re: $20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Volker Kuhlmann
> Lenny = the current Debian testing.  23 CDs at the moment.

Who would walk into the community building to get a pile of CDs of
half-baked of any distro which is out of date by the time it hits the
disk? My suggestion would be to use the disk space more wisely.

Volker

-- 
Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header
http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.


Re: $20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Chevhq Car
Has anyone thought of a portable 500gig usb2 esata enclosure?
Can build one for about 360$

= = = Original message = = =

Do we need to put the pot around for some drive space?

How many more disks could be squash into those machines?

I'll put up $20 towards some drive space.

5 other people want to match me and we can go get a 320gb disk.

Cheers Don

Christopher Sawtell wrote:
> On 9/23/07, SegnaroSoftware <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I have a few distro isos and other handy isos I can contribute (although
>> some may be out of date):
> "few" - Wow!
> We have only 50Gbytes of storage available so I have had to make
> the decision that we can't store files which are not current.
>
>> OpenCD-4.0.iso
>> OpenCD-7.04.iso
>
>> lamppix-mini-1.1.iso
>> DeveLinux-0.1.iso
>> dsl-3.1RC1-syslinux.iso
>> dyne-2.2.iso
>> gnoppix-stable-i386.iso
>> hurd-live-cd-20051117.iso
>> Overclockix_LTSP21.iso
>> slampp-lite-2.0.iso
>> slax-killbill-5.1.8.iso
>> slax-popcorn-5.1.8.iso
>> slax-server-5.1.8.iso
>> ubuntu_lite1.1.iso
>> xubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso
>> bt2final.iso (BackTrace?)
>> foresight-1.3.1-x86-dvd1.iso
>> foresight-2.18.1-x86.iso
>
>> install-x86-minimal-2007.0-r1.iso (Gentoo?)
>> kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
>
>> mythbuntu-7.04~070603-i386.iso
>> pclinuxos-2007.iso
> This one is interesting.
>
>> edubuntu-7.04-i386.iso
>> edubuntu-6.06-i386.iso
>> kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
>> kubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
>> ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
>> ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
>> ubuntustudio-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
>> xubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
>> xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
> Many of these *buntu ones are of considerable interest.
>
>> debian-40r0-i386-businesscard.iso
>> debian-40r0-i386-CD-1.iso
>> ...
>> debian-40r0-i386-CD-21.iso
>> debian-40r0-i386-kde-CD-1.iso
>> debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso
>> debian-40r0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso
> We have much/most of the 40r1 set, so many of these are thanks, but no thanks.
>
>> ...among others.
>>
>> If any of these isos would be of any use, and someone could suggest a
>> way of transporting them around the corner from my house,
> Sounds like a "hand and foot" job to me. :-)
>
>> I will happily share.
> Many thanks.
> When would you like me to come around to pick up the files?
>

--
Don Gould
2/59 Peverel Street, Riccarton, Christchurch, New Zealand
Phone: +64 3 348 7235 - Mobile: +64 21 114 0699
skype:ThinkDesignPrint?add
www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/funny - www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/benjamin/
www.thinkdesignprint.co.nz - www.tcn.bowenvale.co.nz -
www.bowenvale.co.nz - www.hearingbooks.co.nz - www.crra.org.nz -
www.les.org.nz - www.buxtonsquare.co.nz -  - Good ideas:
www.solarking.co.nz



___
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com.


Re: $20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Don Gould
DSE had them on special for $300 the other day, but you can get 320gb WD 
disks for about 120-140, that works out to be another 100gb for the same $$$


Chevhq Car wrote:

Has anyone thought of a portable 500gig usb2 esata enclosure?
Can build one for about 360$

= = = Original message = = =

Do we need to put the pot around for some drive space?

How many more disks could be squash into those machines?

I'll put up $20 towards some drive space.

5 other people want to match me and we can go get a 320gb disk.

Cheers Don

Christopher Sawtell wrote:

On 9/23/07, SegnaroSoftware <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have a few distro isos and other handy isos I can contribute (although
some may be out of date):

"few" - Wow!
We have only 50Gbytes of storage available so I have had to make
the decision that we can't store files which are not current.


OpenCD-4.0.iso
OpenCD-7.04.iso
lamppix-mini-1.1.iso
DeveLinux-0.1.iso
dsl-3.1RC1-syslinux.iso
dyne-2.2.iso
gnoppix-stable-i386.iso
hurd-live-cd-20051117.iso
Overclockix_LTSP21.iso
slampp-lite-2.0.iso
slax-killbill-5.1.8.iso
slax-popcorn-5.1.8.iso
slax-server-5.1.8.iso
ubuntu_lite1.1.iso
xubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso
bt2final.iso (BackTrace?)
foresight-1.3.1-x86-dvd1.iso
foresight-2.18.1-x86.iso
install-x86-minimal-2007.0-r1.iso (Gentoo?)
kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
mythbuntu-7.04~070603-i386.iso
pclinuxos-2007.iso

This one is interesting.


edubuntu-7.04-i386.iso
edubuntu-6.06-i386.iso
kubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
kubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
ubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso
ubuntustudio-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
xubuntu-7.04-alternate-i386.iso
xubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso

Many of these *buntu ones are of considerable interest.


debian-40r0-i386-businesscard.iso
debian-40r0-i386-CD-1.iso
...
debian-40r0-i386-CD-21.iso
debian-40r0-i386-kde-CD-1.iso
debian-40r0-i386-netinst.iso
debian-40r0-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso

We have much/most of the 40r1 set, so many of these are thanks, but no thanks.


...among others.

If any of these isos would be of any use, and someone could suggest a
way of transporting them around the corner from my house,

Sounds like a "hand and foot" job to me. :-)


I will happily share.

Many thanks.
When would you like me to come around to pick up the files?



--
Don Gould
2/59 Peverel Street, Riccarton, Christchurch, New Zealand
Phone: +64 3 348 7235 - Mobile: +64 21 114 0699
skype:ThinkDesignPrint?add
www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/funny - www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/benjamin/
www.thinkdesignprint.co.nz - www.tcn.bowenvale.co.nz -
www.bowenvale.co.nz - www.hearingbooks.co.nz - www.crra.org.nz -
www.les.org.nz - www.buxtonsquare.co.nz -  - Good ideas:
www.solarking.co.nz



___
Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software.
Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com.


--
Don Gould
2/59 Peverel Street, Riccarton, Christchurch, New Zealand
Phone: +64 3 348 7235 - Mobile: +64 21 114 0699
skype:ThinkDesignPrint?add
www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/funny - www.bowenvale.pointclark.net/benjamin/
www.thinkdesignprint.co.nz - www.tcn.bowenvale.co.nz - 
www.bowenvale.co.nz - www.hearingbooks.co.nz - www.crra.org.nz - 
www.les.org.nz - www.buxtonsquare.co.nz -  - Good ideas: 
www.solarking.co.nz




Re: $20 for Chris's drive space project?

2007-09-22 Thread Christopher Sawtell
On 9/23/07, Don Gould <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do we need to put the pot around for some drive space?.
Not yet. We have some 50Gbytes available for our use. Thus we have
enough space to hold a large enough archive to get a good indication
whether this exercise has value or not.

> How many more disks could be squash into those machines?
That all depends on the size of what we wish to make available.

My current thoughts are to not carry historical, unstable, or release
candidate distros, yet to have a few of the fringe and special purpose
ones.

I need guidance as to the desirability of Xandros and Freespire/Linspire.

> I'll put up $20 towards some drive space.
Thanks for the thought, but as of now I'm not putting out the begging bowl.
Let's see if people actually use the facility before we spend money on it.

So far ~35 ppl. have downloaded the list of distros, and I'm not quite
sure how to interpret that number.

The general rules I'm currently applying to make the selecton are:-

1) Up to date and installable from a LiveCD releases. ( Almost all are )

2) No foreign language distros, or the international parts of the big ones.

3) No historical, unstable, or release candidate distros.

4) I am attempting to be totally agnostic as far as packaging and
dependency resolution methods are concerned.

5) I realise that what is trash for one person is treasure for
another, but otoh I don't intend to   create an enormous archive
of valueless "shovel-ware" either. "The Autocrat" will decide!

6) Special purpose, and fringe distributions have a place.

7) We are not strictly limited to Linux only. i.e. Solaris, The *BSDs,
The HURD, Syllable, and Ractos are all in the archive.

8) Absolutely NO warez.

-- 
Sincerely etc.
Christopher Sawtell