Re: Experiments with classical Greek keyboard input
Hello Thomas, It looks like we're all looking for non-standard ways to capture polytonic Greek in Linux. This must mean no keymap exists. Given one hundred years I'll figure out xkb and write one. In the meantime: 1) I wonder if Yudit has a built in map for polytonic Greek. It has a monotonic map, which only works in Yudit, but thank God for Yudit, because xkb is pretty tough to deal with right out of the box. With Yudit you do not need xkb [but if you've managed to configure the Grk keymap, Yudit will goof up. It need the straight, vanilla flavored keyboard]. 2) Borrowing a trick from a macro add on to Microsoft Word back in Windows 98 -- which had no polytonic Greek either -- I've gotten used to using the "special" characters on normal keyboard to enter poly Greek. )/α is a greek alpha with psili and oxia, ~ω is a greek omega with perispomeni )~|η is a greek eta with psili, perispomeni and ypogegrammeni or in latin, soft breathing, circumflex and iota subscript \ε is a greek epsilon with varia (i.e. grave) accent. The encoding always begins with the breathing (if it exists) followed by the accents (if they exist) followed by the iota subscript (if it exists). [My locale Config file at home has listed all the combinations in any order, but I find that tedious.] The perl script works. Here it is: http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/sarris/poly.pl I tested it on this page: http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/sarris/lexicon.html (I would have posted the resulting page, but I won't be able to upload it until tomorrow. technical problems at the University) Just capture your document using the mono Greek keymap, but don't use the tonos, just the unaccented vowels, marked up with my "dead key" characters, then run the script over the file: $ ./poly.gr < lexicon.html > tmp.html The temporary file has all the lower case polytonic Greek vowels. I haven't noticed any conflicts with normal punctuation (yet). I don't need the uppercase for my lexicon. This is ideal for me because I can capture both mono and poly greek using just the mono Greek map. Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ On 4/12/06, Joe Schaffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm getting closer... closer to the motherload, to hitting paydirt. > I've been trying to follow your discussion on the gr(polytonic) key > map, but I need some more background... > > I could set my key map to gr(polytonic) as you suggested in your mail, > using the 'setxkbmap' as you described, but the keyboard did nothing > useful. Maybe the configuration files are obsolete. > > I am using SuSE 9.2 and Gnome. > > My .profile: > > export LANG=el_GR.UTF-8 > setxkbmap "us,el" -option "grp:alt_shift_toggle" > > I need to use the polytonic Greek characters. I am translating a > Lexicon of Ancient Greek Verb: > > http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/sarris/ > > Do I even need a special map for polytonic Greek (e.g. "gr") i.e. Can > I get to the poly Greek characters through the mono Greek map? > > What is a ? > > Maybe I could use it on the mono Greek keymap. > > That would be the best for me, because I do not like changing keymaps. > I can't tell you the number of times I forgotten to switch between > Greek and English, only to find I've been typing an English text in > Greek! > > The same thing is even more likely between Greek and Greek. > > In the meantime, I'm going to write a little script in perl which will > read my html and substitute my own "key codes" to the poly greek > unicode. For example, I can capture the Greek vowels like this: > > )/α would be a greek alpha with psili and oxia, > ~ω would be a greek omega with perispomeni > > I can copy/paste the unicode characters from the .Compose file > (attached) into my perl script. > > This would esentially move the system-layer, xkb keycode mapping > process to the application domain, which I can manage. > > Still, the keymap configuration should be as simple as Perl, no? > > But where do I get started? > > Joe > http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ > > PS > What is a tiny elvis? > > He's a wee-tiny Elvis that can live on your dashboard. Sometimes his > fully grown body guards will let him steer the car. "Hey, tiny Elvis, > would you buy me a Cadillac?" > > This is from my system: > > /usr/lib/X11/locale/el_GR.UTF-8/Compose > > # Part 2 > # > # Greek Extended multi-key and dead key definitions. These have been > # machine-generated by a perl script, found at: > # http://hal.csd.auth.gr/~vvas/i18n/xkb/polytonic-compose.pl > >: "ἀ" U1f00 > : "ἀ" U1f00 > : "ἁ" U1f01 > : "ἁ" U1f01 > : "ἂ" U1f02 > : "ἂ" U1f02 > : "ἂ" U1f02 > : "ἂ" U1f02 >: "ἃ" U1f03 >: "ἃ" U1f03 > : "ἃ" U1f03 > : "ἃ" U1f03 >: "ἄ" U1f04 > ... >
Re: Experiments with classical Greek keyboard input
Πιστιόλης Κωνσταντίνος wrote: There is only one accent mark for modern greek, and it doesn't really matter how to draw it. It is just that the greek government admitted that 'tonos' which has replaced the former three accents (oxia, varia, perispomeni) is actualy nothing more than 'oxia'. In other words, formally speaking, oxia replaced both varia and perispomeni. ... Some greek terminology which may be useful -- 'Tonos' (τόνος) in greek means 'accent (mark)' in general, so this word was used to indicate an accent without specifying which one there are three tonos'es (οξεία, βαρεία, περισπωμένη) 'pnevma' (πνεῦμα) is the breathing mark. There are two of them -'psili' (ψιλή) smooth breathing mark (comma above) and -'dasia' (δασεία) rough breathing mark (reversed comma above). Both do not exist in modern monotonic greek 'ypogegrameni' (ὑπογεγραμμένη) is the iota subscript (like ῃ, ᾳ) and it also does not exist in monotonic greek. 'monotonic' and 'polytonic' greek, stands for using only one 'tonos' or all the symbols. Modern greek is officially monotonic, but some people (old men, the church, men of literature) still use it (me too). There were two branches of evolution of the greek language. The informal language of people, called 'dimotiki' (δημοτική, which means 'public') and the formal language of ecudated people 'katharevousa' (καθαρεύουσα, which means 'pure'). Katharevousa comes in many versions, depending how close it is to ancient greek. Today dimotiki is the official language and practically only the church sometimes uses 'simple' katharevousa (the most modern version). Church always uses polytonic greek, but it does't distinguish between oxia and varia (uses oxia only) I hope it helped. Feel free to ask any question about greek You have given a nice overview of Greek accent marks but it does not seem complete, looking at Unicode, so what about the others? From UnicodeData.txt, I see that the following combining marks occur in single or multiple combinations with Greek letters: DASIA DIALYTIKA MACRON OXIA PERISPOMENI PROSGEGRAMMENI PSILI TONOS VARIA VRACHY YPOGEGRAMMENI the following of which have not been mentioned in your overview: DIALYTIKA MACRON PROSGEGRAMMENI VRACHY The question that I am interested in most is what attachment of accent prefix to function keys would you suggest? Is any common attachment available with common input methods? I would like to enhance my editor mined with Greek input. Easily, two or three function keys are available, in shift-mode variations: Fn, Shift-Fn, Alt-Fn, Alt-Shift-Fn, Control-Fn, Control-Shift-Fn (where Fn is F2...F12, preferably F5, F6, F7) With some straight-forward X keyboard configuration, e.g. shifted digit keys can be added to the choice: Alt-0, Alt-Shift-0, Control-0, Control-Shift-0, Alt-Control-0, Alt-Control-Shift-0 (with digits 0...9) For discussion, I have the following proposal: (most important?) TONOS ΄ 0384;GREEK TONOS F6 (combined with acute for Latin letters) OXIA ´ 1FFD;GREEK OXIA Control-F6 (combined with circumflex) or Alt-F6 because it's an alternative? VARIA ` 1FEF;GREEK VARIA Shift-F6 (combined with grave) PERISPOMENI ῀ 1FC0;GREEK PERISPOMENI Shift-F5 (combined with tilde) or F5 because it's one of the more frequent accents? (less important?) PSILI ᾿ 1FBF;GREEK PSILI Control-F5 (because it looks similar to oxia on Control-F6) DASIA ῾ 1FFE;GREEK DASIA Shift-F5 (because it looks similar to varia on Shift-F6) YPOGEGRAMMENI ͺ 037A;GREEK YPOGEGRAMMENI Control-F5 (combined with cedilla) or Control-5 (combined with dot below) (even less important?) DIALYTIKA ϊ 03CA;GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA WITH DIALYTIKA F5 (combined with diaeresis) or (if F5 preferred for perispomeni) ...? MACRON ᾱ 1FB1;GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH MACRON Control-9 (combined with stroke) PROSGEGRAMMENI ι 1FBE;GREEK PROSGEGRAMMENI Alt-Control-5 (looking like an alternate to ypogegrammeni) VRACHY ᾰ 1FB0;GREEK SMALL LETTER ALPHA WITH VRACHY Control-7 (combined with breve) I appreciate your comments and suggestions. Kind regards, Thomas Wolff -- Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/
