Hello Thomas, It looks like we're all looking for non-standard ways to capture polytonic Greek in Linux. This must mean no keymap exists. Given one hundred years I'll figure out xkb and write one.
In the meantime: 1) I wonder if Yudit has a built in map for polytonic Greek. It has a monotonic map, which only works in Yudit, but thank God for Yudit, because xkb is pretty tough to deal with right out of the box. With Yudit you do not need xkb [but if you've managed to configure the Grk keymap, Yudit will goof up. It need the straight, vanilla flavored keyboard]. 2) Borrowing a trick from a macro add on to Microsoft Word back in Windows 98 -- which had no polytonic Greek either -- I've gotten used to using the "special" characters on normal keyboard to enter poly Greek. )/α is a greek alpha with psili and oxia, ~ω is a greek omega with perispomeni )~|η is a greek eta with psili, perispomeni and ypogegrammeni or in latin, soft breathing, circumflex and iota subscript \ε is a greek epsilon with varia (i.e. grave) accent. The encoding always begins with the breathing (if it exists) followed by the accents (if they exist) followed by the iota subscript (if it exists). [My locale Config file at home has listed all the combinations in any order, but I find that tedious.] The perl script works. Here it is: http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/sarris/poly.pl I tested it on this page: http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/sarris/lexicon.html (I would have posted the resulting page, but I won't be able to upload it until tomorrow. technical problems at the University) Just capture your document using the mono Greek keymap, but don't use the tonos, just the unaccented vowels, marked up with my "dead key" characters, then run the script over the file: $ ./poly.gr < lexicon.html > tmp.html The temporary file has all the lower case polytonic Greek vowels. I haven't noticed any conflicts with normal punctuation (yet). I don't need the uppercase for my lexicon. This is ideal for me because I can capture both mono and poly greek using just the mono Greek map. Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ On 4/12/06, Joe Schaffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm getting closer... closer to the motherload, to hitting paydirt. > I've been trying to follow your discussion on the gr(polytonic) key > map, but I need some more background... > > I could set my key map to gr(polytonic) as you suggested in your mail, > using the 'setxkbmap' as you described, but the keyboard did nothing > useful. Maybe the configuration files are obsolete. > > I am using SuSE 9.2 and Gnome. > > My .profile: > > export LANG=el_GR.UTF-8 > setxkbmap "us,el" -option "grp:alt_shift_toggle" > > I need to use the polytonic Greek characters. I am translating a > Lexicon of Ancient Greek Verb: > > http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/sarris/ > > Do I even need a special map for polytonic Greek (e.g. "gr") i.e. Can > I get to the poly Greek characters through the mono Greek map? > > What is a <Multi_key>? > > Maybe I could use it on the mono Greek keymap. > > That would be the best for me, because I do not like changing keymaps. > I can't tell you the number of times I forgotten to switch between > Greek and English, only to find I've been typing an English text in > Greek! > > The same thing is even more likely between Greek and Greek. > > In the meantime, I'm going to write a little script in perl which will > read my html and substitute my own "key codes" to the poly greek > unicode. For example, I can capture the Greek vowels like this: > > )/α would be a greek alpha with psili and oxia, > ~ω would be a greek omega with perispomeni > > I can copy/paste the unicode characters from the .Compose file > (attached) into my perl script. > > This would esentially move the system-layer, xkb keycode mapping > process to the application domain, which I can manage. > > Still, the keymap configuration should be as simple as Perl, no? > > But where do I get started? > > Joe > http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ > > PS > What is a tiny elvis? > > He's a wee-tiny Elvis that can live on your dashboard. Sometimes his > fully grown body guards will let him steer the car. "Hey, tiny Elvis, > would you buy me a Cadillac?" > > This is from my system: > > /usr/lib/X11/locale/el_GR.UTF-8/Compose > > # Part 2 > # > # Greek Extended multi-key and dead key definitions. These have been > # machine-generated by a perl script, found at: > # http://hal.csd.auth.gr/~vvas/i18n/xkb/polytonic-compose.pl > > <Multi_key> <greater> <Greek_alpha> : "ἀ" U1f00 > <dead_horn> <Greek_alpha> : "ἀ" U1f00 > <Multi_key> <less> <Greek_alpha> : "ἁ" U1f01 > <dead_ogonek> <Greek_alpha> : "ἁ" U1f01 > <Multi_key> <greater> <grave> <Greek_alpha> : "ἂ" U1f02 > <Multi_key> <grave> <greater> <Greek_alpha> : "ἂ" U1f02 > <dead_horn> <dead_grave> <Greek_alpha> : "ἂ" U1f02 > <dead_grave> <dead_horn> <Greek_alpha> : "ἂ" U1f02 > <Multi_key> <less> <grave> <Greek_alpha> : "ἃ" U1f03 > <Multi_key> <grave> <less> <Greek_alpha> : "ἃ" U1f03 > <dead_ogonek> <dead_grave> <Greek_alpha> : "ἃ" U1f03 > <dead_grave> <dead_ogonek> <Greek_alpha> : "ἃ" U1f03 > <Multi_key> <greater> <apostrophe> <Greek_alpha> : "ἄ" U1f04 > ... > <Multi_key> <apostrophe> <less> <bar> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾅ" U1f85 > <dead_iota> <dead_ogonek> <dead_acute> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾅ" U1f85 > <dead_iota> <dead_acute> <dead_ogonek> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾅ" U1f85 > <dead_ogonek> <dead_iota> <dead_acute> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾅ" U1f85 > <dead_ogonek> <dead_acute> <dead_iota> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾅ" U1f85 > <dead_acute> <dead_iota> <dead_ogonek> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾅ" U1f85 > <dead_acute> <dead_ogonek> <dead_iota> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾅ" U1f85 > <Multi_key> <bar> <greater> <asciitilde> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <Multi_key> <bar> <asciitilde> <greater> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <Multi_key> <greater> <bar> <asciitilde> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <Multi_key> <greater> <asciitilde> <bar> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <Multi_key> <asciitilde> <bar> <greater> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <Multi_key> <asciitilde> <greater> <bar> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <dead_iota> <dead_horn> <dead_tilde> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <dead_iota> <dead_tilde> <dead_horn> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > <dead_horn> <dead_iota> <dead_tilde> <Greek_alpha> : "ᾆ" U1f86 > > It looks like all the characters are there, only how do I get them? > > What are these symbols, <Multi_key>, <greater>, <apostrophe>, > <Greek_alpha>, etc. and how are they mapped to real keys? > > Anybody care to discuss how xkb works? > > Anybody care to describe the multitude of configuration files used by > the locale/Xkb system? > > It looks like all these X/locale configuration files are text files. > They all seem to work together. > > Where do I get started? > > =============================================== > Unicode Fonts > > I'd like to correct something I wrote earlier. Microsoft TNR does > *NOT* support the polytonic Greek characters. I only thought so > because 1) the SuSE Free Serif does, and 2) the gnome "Character > Table" application does a clever font substitution even when I select > M-TNR as the font. > > Too clever for its own good. > > Font substitution good in a browser, but it is a very bad idea in a > system utility like this "Character Table" (sorry I have a Greek > desktop, and I don't know what you call it in English). If the > characters are not present in the font being considered, then there I > want to know about it! > > In fact Mozilla and Firefox work quite well, even on Windows, but IE > 6.0 does nothing at all! In fact, the only poly Greek font on my Xp > system is the "arial unicode ms" which, 1) is sans serif and 2) is a > pig (22M byte), even though there are other fonts on the Xp which call > themselves "unicode". IE doesn not use it though, not even for font > substitution. > > Which brings up the question: > > The font is a set of glyphs and has nothing to do whatsoever with the > character set, so why are we calling them "unicode" fonts anyway? > > I assume a font can work with any character set, ISO-8859-7, Unicode, > WinGreek, "My First Character set", "Foobar"... any. > > Any font designers out there? > > There needs to be a map between the character set and the glyph-set > (the font) which I always assumed was in the font itself, because only > the font know which glyphs it has implemented. > ================================================= > > On 2/3/06, Jan Willem Stumpel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Joe Schaffner wrote: > > > > > [..] > > > With this font, I can capture the entire entry, no problems, pointing > > > fingers, arrows, boxes, tiny-elvises, polygreek etymology... There is > > > virtually nothing I cannot do with the Unicode character set alone. > > > > And in another message: > > > > > http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/home.html#unicode > > > > Your document is impressive, and it clearly shows why we need Unicode (a > > system which allows mixing many different languages in one document) and > > also why we need input systems capable of switching between languages > > very quickly (i.e. not requiring going through complicated nested menus). > > > > Fonts are not a real problem. There are many fonts which can display > > both ancient and modern Greek in UTF-8. You do not especially need the > > XP version of Times New Roman (although thanks for the tip). > > > > As far as switching between Latin and Greek is concerned, I would > > recommend setting the "group toggle" key to only one single key, not > > something like control-alt-K. I just set it to "Left-Windows" which (on > > my system) is not used for anything useful. It really cycles, i.e. when > > you get to the end of the possible groups, you get back to the > > beginning. That does not seem to work for you; I do not know why. > > > > Greek is, of course, a language which is enormously important in the > > history of civilisation, and is therefore of interest to people from > > many different cultures (or, in computer terms, 'locales'). Such people > > could very well be resident in Greece, so they need to enter both > > 'ancient' and 'modern' Greek in their computers with a minimum of fuss. > > Therefore now I think that there should be either > > > > -- one "gr" keyboard layout which allows entering both modern and > > ancient Greek. > > > > -- two "gr" keyboard layout variants, one which is optimised for modern > > Greek, and another one which enables inputting BOTH ancient and > > modern Greek (i.e both tonos and oxía) - although it might be > > somewhat sub-optimal compared to a keyboard which is 'modern Greek > > only'. > > > > BTW What is a 'tiny elvis'? > > > > Regards, Jan > > > > > > > > -- > > Linux-UTF8: i18n of Linux on all levels > > Archive: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/ > > > > >
