Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 08:35:05AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 09:59:25PM +1030, Ron wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:18:55AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 12:39:08AM +1030, Ron wrote: Hi, Sorry to be late to the party on this one, but could we please change this to instead use: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE([enabled]) This gives the same default behaviour as removing it (which I agree is desirable), but still enables people to use the --disable-maintainer-mode option to configure, if they really want to switch it off again (which I do for the package builds since we don't really want a borked timestamp regenerating these files unexpectedly in the source package). where do you get the busted timestamps from? that seems to be the bug that should get fixed. [...] btw, I suspect that sooner or later the X.Org repos will all be switched (server already is) so you need to bring up the issue on the xorg-devel list too. That may not be a problem for the folk maintaining the X packages, they have their own boilerplate and methodology for pulling packages from git and I think they do just regenerate this stuff at every build. Even so, it probably would be nice to use AM_MAINTAINER_MODE([enabled]) everywhere that this is being changed. It takes nothing away from the preferred default, but leaves people with choice if they do need it. Patch is out for libwacom. Do you need the same change in xf86-input-wacom then or is that handled by the X team? Thanks! That looks good. xf86-input-wacom is maintained by me and uses this workflow, so if we can apply the same patch there, that would be great. Cheers, Ron -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 09:59:25PM +1030, Ron wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:18:55AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 12:39:08AM +1030, Ron wrote: Hi, Sorry to be late to the party on this one, but could we please change this to instead use: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE([enabled]) This gives the same default behaviour as removing it (which I agree is desirable), but still enables people to use the --disable-maintainer-mode option to configure, if they really want to switch it off again (which I do for the package builds since we don't really want a borked timestamp regenerating these files unexpectedly in the source package). where do you get the busted timestamps from? that seems to be the bug that should get fixed. [...] btw, I suspect that sooner or later the X.Org repos will all be switched (server already is) so you need to bring up the issue on the xorg-devel list too. That may not be a problem for the folk maintaining the X packages, they have their own boilerplate and methodology for pulling packages from git and I think they do just regenerate this stuff at every build. Even so, it probably would be nice to use AM_MAINTAINER_MODE([enabled]) everywhere that this is being changed. It takes nothing away from the preferred default, but leaves people with choice if they do need it. Patch is out for libwacom. Do you need the same change in xf86-input-wacom then or is that handled by the X team? Cheers, Peter On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:34:26AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net --- configure.ac | 1 - 1 file changed, 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac index 432f0e7..e510e2f 100644 --- a/configure.ac +++ b/configure.ac @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ AC_CONFIG_HEADERS([config.h]) # Initialize Automake AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([foreign dist-bzip2 no-dist-gzip check-news]) -AM_MAINTAINER_MODE # Enable silent build when available (Automake 1.11) m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])]) -- 1.7.11.4 -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 12:39:08AM +1030, Ron wrote: Hi, Sorry to be late to the party on this one, but could we please change this to instead use: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE([enabled]) This gives the same default behaviour as removing it (which I agree is desirable), but still enables people to use the --disable-maintainer-mode option to configure, if they really want to switch it off again (which I do for the package builds since we don't really want a borked timestamp regenerating these files unexpectedly in the source package). where do you get the busted timestamps from? that seems to be the bug that should get fixed. btw, I suspect that sooner or later the X.Org repos will all be switched (server already is) so you need to bring up the issue on the xorg-devel list too. Cheers, Peter On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:34:26AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net --- configure.ac | 1 - 1 file changed, 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac index 432f0e7..e510e2f 100644 --- a/configure.ac +++ b/configure.ac @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ AC_CONFIG_HEADERS([config.h]) # Initialize Automake AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([foreign dist-bzip2 no-dist-gzip check-news]) -AM_MAINTAINER_MODE # Enable silent build when available (Automake 1.11) m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])]) -- 1.7.11.4 -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
Hi, Sorry to be late to the party on this one, but could we please change this to instead use: AM_MAINTAINER_MODE([enabled]) This gives the same default behaviour as removing it (which I agree is desirable), but still enables people to use the --disable-maintainer-mode option to configure, if they really want to switch it off again (which I do for the package builds since we don't really want a borked timestamp regenerating these files unexpectedly in the source package). Cheers, Ron On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:34:26AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net --- configure.ac | 1 - 1 file changed, 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac index 432f0e7..e510e2f 100644 --- a/configure.ac +++ b/configure.ac @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ AC_CONFIG_HEADERS([config.h]) # Initialize Automake AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([foreign dist-bzip2 no-dist-gzip check-news]) -AM_MAINTAINER_MODE # Enable silent build when available (Automake 1.11) m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])]) -- 1.7.11.4 -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 09:02:28PM -0500, Chris Bagwell wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net For what its worth, for projects that do like to enable maintainer mode, I prefer they also check in the Makefile.in's because of the grief that can occur when git is missing them and configure is ignoring that role. Since wacom doesn't check them in, I also prefer deleting this line. Can you expand on the git issue you point out here? I'm not sure what you mean. Also, I think projects that distribute an autogen.sh scripts have their roots in this setting as well. Its primary feature is a short cut to force Makefile regeneration when we've gone out of our way to disable that automatice feature. Its an option to either delete that script now or remove the configure part. Hopefully, people that muck with configure.ac scripts already know you need to run autoreconf after modifying it and the Makefile will now have working rules to rerun configure after modifying Makefile.am. regarding autogen.sh, I'll squash in the commit to remove --enable-maintainer-mode from that script since it's now useless anyway, but I'd like to leave the script there for now, if only because of habit. fwiw, I personally really hate it that one project I'm working on _doesn't_ call configure from autogen. it's annoying, forcing me to run two commands where I could only need to run one. Reviewed-by: Chris Bagwell ch...@cnpbagwell.com thanks. Cheers, Peter --- configure.ac | 1 - 1 file changed, 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac index 432f0e7..e510e2f 100644 --- a/configure.ac +++ b/configure.ac @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ AC_CONFIG_HEADERS([config.h]) # Initialize Automake AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([foreign dist-bzip2 no-dist-gzip check-news]) -AM_MAINTAINER_MODE # Enable silent build when available (Automake 1.11) m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])]) -- 1.7.11.4 -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel Do we want to do this to the other projects as well? I'm not particularly well-versed on the magic that is autotools, but it seems like it's not necessary for them either. Jason --- When you're rife with devastation / There's a simple explanation: You're a toymaker's creation / Trapped inside a crystal ball. And whichever way he tilts it / Know that we must be resilient We won't let them break our spirits / As we sing our silly song. -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 09:02:28PM -0500, Chris Bagwell wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net For what its worth, for projects that do like to enable maintainer mode, I prefer they also check in the Makefile.in's because of the grief that can occur when git is missing them and configure is ignoring that role. Since wacom doesn't check them in, I also prefer deleting this line. Can you expand on the git issue you point out here? I'm not sure what you mean. Also, I think projects that distribute an autogen.sh scripts have their roots in this setting as well. Its primary feature is a short cut to force Makefile regeneration when we've gone out of our way to disable that automatice feature. Its an option to either delete that script now or remove the configure part. Hopefully, people that muck with configure.ac scripts already know you need to run autoreconf after modifying it and the Makefile will now have working rules to rerun configure after modifying Makefile.am. regarding autogen.sh, I'll squash in the commit to remove --enable-maintainer-mode from that script since it's now useless anyway, but I'd like to leave the script there for now, if only because of habit. I didn't get the whole picture of this discussion yet. Just to make sure it is not due to my habit ;-). So, please update the script the way you like. fwiw, I personally really hate it that one project I'm working on _doesn't_ call configure from autogen. it's annoying, forcing me to run two commands where I could only need to run one. Hope linuxwacom is not the project you hate. I am not confident ;(. Please update it so it gets to your liked list. Ping -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 02:16:46PM -0700, Ping Cheng wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 09:02:28PM -0500, Chris Bagwell wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net For what its worth, for projects that do like to enable maintainer mode, I prefer they also check in the Makefile.in's because of the grief that can occur when git is missing them and configure is ignoring that role. Since wacom doesn't check them in, I also prefer deleting this line. Can you expand on the git issue you point out here? I'm not sure what you mean. Also, I think projects that distribute an autogen.sh scripts have their roots in this setting as well. Its primary feature is a short cut to force Makefile regeneration when we've gone out of our way to disable that automatice feature. Its an option to either delete that script now or remove the configure part. Hopefully, people that muck with configure.ac scripts already know you need to run autoreconf after modifying it and the Makefile will now have working rules to rerun configure after modifying Makefile.am. regarding autogen.sh, I'll squash in the commit to remove --enable-maintainer-mode from that script since it's now useless anyway, but I'd like to leave the script there for now, if only because of habit. I didn't get the whole picture of this discussion yet. Just to make sure it is not due to my habit ;-). So, please update the script the way you like. fwiw, I personally really hate it that one project I'm working on _doesn't_ call configure from autogen. it's annoying, forcing me to run two commands where I could only need to run one. Hope linuxwacom is not the project you hate. I am not confident ;(. Please update it so it gets to your liked list. tbh, I haven't touched linuxwacom for quite a while, so no, that's not it. the AM_MAINTAINER_MODE has it's root in the Xorg configure scripts, and I believe the history of that has its root in some CVS quirkyness. either way, it's certainly outlived its usefulness. I'll push a similar patch to linuxwacom and xf86-input-wacon as well, as Jason suggested. Cheers, Peter -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
[Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net --- configure.ac | 1 - 1 file changed, 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac index 432f0e7..e510e2f 100644 --- a/configure.ac +++ b/configure.ac @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ AC_CONFIG_HEADERS([config.h]) # Initialize Automake AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([foreign dist-bzip2 no-dist-gzip check-news]) -AM_MAINTAINER_MODE # Enable silent build when available (Automake 1.11) m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])]) -- 1.7.11.4 -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net For what its worth, for projects that do like to enable maintainer mode, I prefer they also check in the Makefile.in's because of the grief that can occur when git is missing them and configure is ignoring that role. Since wacom doesn't check them in, I also prefer deleting this line. Also, I think projects that distribute an autogen.sh scripts have their roots in this setting as well. Its primary feature is a short cut to force Makefile regeneration when we've gone out of our way to disable that automatice feature. Its an option to either delete that script now or remove the configure part. Hopefully, people that muck with configure.ac scripts already know you need to run autoreconf after modifying it and the Makefile will now have working rules to rerun configure after modifying Makefile.am. Reviewed-by: Chris Bagwell ch...@cnpbagwell.com --- configure.ac | 1 - 1 file changed, 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac index 432f0e7..e510e2f 100644 --- a/configure.ac +++ b/configure.ac @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ AC_CONFIG_HEADERS([config.h]) # Initialize Automake AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([foreign dist-bzip2 no-dist-gzip check-news]) -AM_MAINTAINER_MODE # Enable silent build when available (Automake 1.11) m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])]) -- 1.7.11.4 -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
Re: [Linuxwacom-devel] [PATCH libwacom] Drop AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 09:02:28PM -0500, Chris Bagwell wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:34 PM, Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net wrote: We want libwacom to react to changes in Makefile.am's Long writeup: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2011/09/08/am_maintainer_mode-is-not-cool/ Signed-off-by: Peter Hutterer peter.hutte...@who-t.net For what its worth, for projects that do like to enable maintainer mode, I prefer they also check in the Makefile.in's because of the grief that can occur when git is missing them and configure is ignoring that role. Since wacom doesn't check them in, I also prefer deleting this line. Can you expand on the git issue you point out here? I'm not sure what you mean. Also, I think projects that distribute an autogen.sh scripts have their roots in this setting as well. Its primary feature is a short cut to force Makefile regeneration when we've gone out of our way to disable that automatice feature. Its an option to either delete that script now or remove the configure part. Hopefully, people that muck with configure.ac scripts already know you need to run autoreconf after modifying it and the Makefile will now have working rules to rerun configure after modifying Makefile.am. regarding autogen.sh, I'll squash in the commit to remove --enable-maintainer-mode from that script since it's now useless anyway, but I'd like to leave the script there for now, if only because of habit. fwiw, I personally really hate it that one project I'm working on _doesn't_ call configure from autogen. it's annoying, forcing me to run two commands where I could only need to run one. Reviewed-by: Chris Bagwell ch...@cnpbagwell.com thanks. Cheers, Peter --- configure.ac | 1 - 1 file changed, 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac index 432f0e7..e510e2f 100644 --- a/configure.ac +++ b/configure.ac @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@ AC_CONFIG_HEADERS([config.h]) # Initialize Automake AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([foreign dist-bzip2 no-dist-gzip check-news]) -AM_MAINTAINER_MODE # Enable silent build when available (Automake 1.11) m4_ifdef([AM_SILENT_RULES],[AM_SILENT_RULES([yes])]) -- 1.7.11.4 -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Linuxwacom-devel mailing list Linuxwacom-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxwacom-devel
