Re: Networking a Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Thanks James,
That's obviously the answer. I just read the manual.

Thanks for your time in tracking down that crucial piece of information.

Phil


On Feb 8, 2006, at 8:31 PM, James MacPhail wrote:


I can now connect my Lisa running OS 6.0.8 and 7.0.1 to a Powerbook
2400c running 8.6. However I can not see the Lisa from the  
Powerbook side.



I really have no idea how to start file sharing at all under 6.


The file server feature first appeared in System 7, so computers  
running
earlier systems can only be clients (unless you use third-party  
sharing

software).

Do you have an XLerator installed and turned on? If not, you won't  
be able
to use the Lisa as a server with file sharing in System 7, although  
you
should still be able to connect as a client. For more info, see  
page 9 of

the MacWorks Plus II - Series 1 Update - Manual Addendum.

I also believe that you need more than 2 MB to run System 7  
successfully,
so if you have an XLerator, make sure you have at least 4 MB  
installed.


SCSI <-> Ethernet boxes appeared some time after the MW+II update,  
so you

_might_ be able to turn on file sharing without an XLerator if you are
networked through one of these (or they might require an XLerator  
too). I
have successfully used an Asante Mini EN/SC-10T (with an XLerator),  
but

others may work too.

HTH,

James

James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Networking a Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Hi,
Unfortunately nothing happened.

I decided to reinstall OS 7 (downgrade from 7.0.1). I also installed  
the 'Tune Up' for System 7.


Upon restart I found I could now see the 'Start' file sharing button  
that was missing before. I pressed it and instantly got the message  
"A problem with your system was encountered. Please reinstall your  
system software". Strangely enough this was the messgae I previously  
got (and still get) with the old system when I pressed the "Start"  
program linking button...so I'm no closer to getting full networking  
to work.


So now I'm truly stumped.

Phil

On Feb 7, 2006, at 5:00 PM, macmoni wrote:


Hi Phil,

try, whether this routine accepts keyboard inputs?
type in the 'owners name'
ENTER
type in the 'computer name'
ENTER
type in the password
ENTER


What happens now?

TOM from a snowy Bavaria, the country of the marvellous castles of  
Koenig Ludwig, the Alps, the original Octoberfest in the center of  
Europe



Am 07.02.2006 um 04:38 schrieb Philip Lord:


Ok,
Partial success!
I can now connect my Lisa running OS 6.0.8 and 7.0.1 to a  
Powerbook 2400c running 8.6.

However I can not see the Lisa from the Powerbook side.

On the lisa running 7.0.1 if I open the 'sharing' control panel, I  
can enter in the 'owners name', the 'computer name' and the  
password, but I can't see any button that says 'START' sharing???!!!
It's been a while since I have done file sharing in OS 7, but I  
assumed there would be a 'START' button like in OS 9. Where has it  
gone? Am I looking in the right place?


As for OS6, last time I used sharing on this system was about 18  
years ago, so I really have no idea how to start file sharing at  
all under 6.


Phil




On Feb 6, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


Thanks James,
I will try to connect the Lisa to another mac with an older  
system. See if this helps.


I have tried to see the Lisa from the Wallstreet side but nothing  
appears in the chooser. I will double check again that sharing on  
the Lisa side is on.


Thanks again for the info, I will let you all know how I go.

Phil





On Feb 6, 2006, at 8:17 AM, James MacPhail wrote:


I have a hacked (not by me) localtalk connector

The lisa is running OS 6.0.8, and the Wallstreet is running 9.2.

when using the chooser I can see the Wallstreet, I can even  
attempt to

connect, and the Lisa displays a list of Wallstreet volumes.



I think this indicates you do have (more or less) appropriate  
software

installed and your hacked localtalk connector is working.



However, when I try to fully connect, nothing happens!!!

Trying the same thing on the Lisa under OS 7.0.1 causes the  
system to

crash with the error:

"Sorry, a system error occurred. "Chooser" divide by zero"



I have observed a similar issue with various computers running  
system

software pre MacOS 8, including a MacPlus, and IIsi.

I believe the reason is that Apple implemented a new "User  
Authentication
Module" around the time of Mac OS 8 to improve security, and for  
whatever
reason, it is not fully backwards-compatible (or perhaps you  
need to find

just the right version of the AppleShare Workstation Software).

Searching around on Apple's web site, I found various technotes  
including

this one:

  <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30497>

Which says, in part:

"Computers that are running system software earlier than system  
software
7.5.1 should run AppleShare Workstation 3.5. Computers that are  
running
system software 7.5.1 or later (up to but not including 7.5.3)  
should run

AppleShare Workstation 3.6.5."

Of course any particular version won't necessarily work on the  
Lisa, but it

gives you a limit as to how new a version is worth trying.

If you do find a particular combination of system software and  
AppleShare
software that does allow you to mount a MacOS 9 volume on your  
Lisa, please

let us know!

Suggestions:

I find that the newer system versions can mount volumes shared  
by the older
versions. ie. if you run System 7.x on your Lisa, and turn on  
file sharing,

you may be able to mount it on the Wallstreet.

Alternately, I use an older computer running System 7.5.5 as a  
file server.
I then mount a volume from this on both older and newer  
computers, and use
it to transfer files between them. Since I change configurations  
often, I
find the extra hop is less trouble than fiddling with file  
sharing in each

new configuration.

HTH,

James

James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<http://SigmaSevenSystems.com>



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Re: Networking a Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Ok,
Partial success!
I can now connect my Lisa running OS 6.0.8 and 7.0.1 to a Powerbook  
2400c running 8.6.

However I can not see the Lisa from the Powerbook side.

On the lisa running 7.0.1 if I open the 'sharing' control panel, I  
can enter in the 'owners name', the 'computer name' and the password,  
but I can't see any button that says 'START' sharing???!!!
It's been a while since I have done file sharing in OS 7, but I  
assumed there would be a 'START' button like in OS 9. Where has it  
gone? Am I looking in the right place?


As for OS6, last time I used sharing on this system was about 18  
years ago, so I really have no idea how to start file sharing at all  
under 6.


Phil




On Feb 6, 2006, at 12:08 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


Thanks James,
I will try to connect the Lisa to another mac with an older system.  
See if this helps.


I have tried to see the Lisa from the Wallstreet side but nothing  
appears in the chooser. I will double check again that sharing on  
the Lisa side is on.


Thanks again for the info, I will let you all know how I go.

Phil





On Feb 6, 2006, at 8:17 AM, James MacPhail wrote:


I have a hacked (not by me) localtalk connector

The lisa is running OS 6.0.8, and the Wallstreet is running 9.2.

when using the chooser I can see the Wallstreet, I can even  
attempt to

connect, and the Lisa displays a list of Wallstreet volumes.



I think this indicates you do have (more or less) appropriate  
software

installed and your hacked localtalk connector is working.



However, when I try to fully connect, nothing happens!!!

Trying the same thing on the Lisa under OS 7.0.1 causes the  
system to

crash with the error:

"Sorry, a system error occurred. "Chooser" divide by zero"



I have observed a similar issue with various computers running system
software pre MacOS 8, including a MacPlus, and IIsi.

I believe the reason is that Apple implemented a new "User  
Authentication
Module" around the time of Mac OS 8 to improve security, and for  
whatever
reason, it is not fully backwards-compatible (or perhaps you need  
to find

just the right version of the AppleShare Workstation Software).

Searching around on Apple's web site, I found various technotes  
including

this one:

  <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30497>

Which says, in part:

"Computers that are running system software earlier than system  
software
7.5.1 should run AppleShare Workstation 3.5. Computers that are  
running
system software 7.5.1 or later (up to but not including 7.5.3)  
should run

AppleShare Workstation 3.6.5."

Of course any particular version won't necessarily work on the  
Lisa, but it

gives you a limit as to how new a version is worth trying.

If you do find a particular combination of system software and  
AppleShare
software that does allow you to mount a MacOS 9 volume on your  
Lisa, please

let us know!

Suggestions:

I find that the newer system versions can mount volumes shared by  
the older
versions. ie. if you run System 7.x on your Lisa, and turn on file  
sharing,

you may be able to mount it on the Wallstreet.

Alternately, I use an older computer running System 7.5.5 as a  
file server.
I then mount a volume from this on both older and newer computers,  
and use
it to transfer files between them. Since I change configurations  
often, I
find the extra hop is less trouble than fiddling with file sharing  
in each

new configuration.

HTH,

James

James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<http://SigmaSevenSystems.com>



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For 

Re: Networking a Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Thanks James,
I will try to connect the Lisa to another mac with an older system.  
See if this helps.


I have tried to see the Lisa from the Wallstreet side but nothing  
appears in the chooser. I will double check again that sharing on the  
Lisa side is on.


Thanks again for the info, I will let you all know how I go.

Phil





On Feb 6, 2006, at 8:17 AM, James MacPhail wrote:


I have a hacked (not by me) localtalk connector

The lisa is running OS 6.0.8, and the Wallstreet is running 9.2.

when using the chooser I can see the Wallstreet, I can even  
attempt to

connect, and the Lisa displays a list of Wallstreet volumes.



I think this indicates you do have (more or less) appropriate software
installed and your hacked localtalk connector is working.



However, when I try to fully connect, nothing happens!!!

Trying the same thing on the Lisa under OS 7.0.1 causes the system to
crash with the error:

"Sorry, a system error occurred. "Chooser" divide by zero"



I have observed a similar issue with various computers running system
software pre MacOS 8, including a MacPlus, and IIsi.

I believe the reason is that Apple implemented a new "User  
Authentication
Module" around the time of Mac OS 8 to improve security, and for  
whatever
reason, it is not fully backwards-compatible (or perhaps you need  
to find

just the right version of the AppleShare Workstation Software).

Searching around on Apple's web site, I found various technotes  
including

this one:

  

Which says, in part:

"Computers that are running system software earlier than system  
software
7.5.1 should run AppleShare Workstation 3.5. Computers that are  
running
system software 7.5.1 or later (up to but not including 7.5.3)  
should run

AppleShare Workstation 3.6.5."

Of course any particular version won't necessarily work on the  
Lisa, but it

gives you a limit as to how new a version is worth trying.

If you do find a particular combination of system software and  
AppleShare
software that does allow you to mount a MacOS 9 volume on your  
Lisa, please

let us know!

Suggestions:

I find that the newer system versions can mount volumes shared by  
the older
versions. ie. if you run System 7.x on your Lisa, and turn on file  
sharing,

you may be able to mount it on the Wallstreet.

Alternately, I use an older computer running System 7.5.5 as a file  
server.
I then mount a volume from this on both older and newer computers,  
and use
it to transfer files between them. Since I change configurations  
often, I
find the extra hop is less trouble than fiddling with file sharing  
in each

new configuration.

HTH,

James

James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Networking a Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Hi everyone,
Not much activity on the list recently, so I thought I'd start  
another thread.


I have a hacked (not by me) localtalk connector that connects into  
the back of my lisa, I am trying to connect to an old(ish) Powerbook  
Wallstreet. with a similar localtalk connector.


The lisa is running OS 6.0.8, and the Wallstreet is running 9.2.

I think I have installed all the appropriate networking extensions  
for OS 6 on the lisa, and when using the chooser I can see the  
Wallstreet, I can even attempt to connect, and the Lisa displays a  
list of Wallstreet volumes. So everything looks perfectly normal up  
until this point. However, when I try to fully connect, nothing  
happens!!!


Trying the same thing on the Lisa under OS 7.0.1 causes the system to  
crash with the error:


"Sorry, a system error occurred. "Chooser" divide by zero"

and a prompt to restart. Again I can get all the way to seeing the  
list of Wallstreet volumes, but the crash happens once I try to connect.


Anybody have any ideas how to resolve this?

Cheers

Phil


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Re: RAM mod question for James McPhail

[Philip Lord]

Thanks a lot James. I may give this mod a go sometime in the future.

Cheers

Phil


On Jan 23, 2006, at 8:04 AM, James MacPhail wrote:


Ever since I read what you wrote about the 'LRamBo' 2 meg mod for the
apple lisa 512k card I've been intrigued, and the 4 meg mod for
Macworks Plus II.

Where would I find information on doing these mods? I've searched the
internet using google, and found nothing.


Hi Phil,

At the moment, I can't find a good site offering both of these  
either. It
appears that some of the more extensive Lisa information sites are  
offline,

or perhaps have been dropped from Google's index.

a) I did find the instruction sheet for the 2 MB mod in two places.  
Note

that the contact info on the sheet is out of date (phone number and
CompuServe address).

1. Go to this page and scroll the right hand list to ram512-1  
through -3.


  

2. This site does not include pages 1 and 2, which were reverse  
engineered

schematics of the 512K memory board. Since Apple schematics of the RAM
board are available online (at the same site, for instance), I  
don't think

this is a problem and page 3 is really all you need.

  

b) I am happy to email the 4 MB modification to those who ask,  
please let

me know if you would prefer the format to be: MacDraw (the original
document), generic PICT, or Acrobat PDF. To avoid annoying the  
other list
members, please send your email to me directly rather than replying  
to this

posting.

The 4 MB modification instructions do not include information for  
using the
Sun Remarketing memory board (which has SIMM sockets). I suspect  
that J1 on
that board is to support the 4 MB modification, but I have not  
tested it.


To be clear, the 4 MB modification only works with a few operating
environments, such as MacWorks Plus II. It also works with MacWorks  
Plus

1.1h, and if the memory is restricted to 3.875 MB, with MacWorks Plus
1.0.18.

HTH,

James

James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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RAM mod question for James McPhail

[Philip Lord]

Hi Lisa List and James MacPhail,
Ever since I read what you wrote about the 'LRamBo' 2 meg mod for the  
apple lisa 512k card I've been intrigued, and the 4 meg mod for  
Macworks Plus II.


Where would I find information on doing these mods? I've searched the  
internet using google, and found nothing.


Cheers

Phil


On Nov 16, 2005, at 6:24 PM, James MacPhail wrote:


Paul Capes and I also developed and published the "LRamBo" 2 MB
modifications for the Apple Lisa 512K memory board, and the subsequent
modification that enabled using 4 MB under MacWorks Plus/II.



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Re: Lisa Xenix?

[Philip Lord]

Hi all,
Has anyone installed Xenix.

I have a copy of Xenix (SCO 3.0 copyright Microsoft and the Santa  
Cruz Operation inc, 1983), but when I try to install it from the boot  
floppy I get the following error:


pfcmd: handshake err 0103
pfcmd: handshake err 0103
pfcmd: handshake err 0103
pfcmd: handshake err 0103...(about 50 lines of this)
error on dev pf (0/0), block=7744 cmd=1 status=0

Does anyone know what this means

Cheers
Phil


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Re: Lisa Xenix?

[Philip Lord]

Hi all,
Has anyone installed Xenix.

I have a copy of Xenix (SCO 3.0 copyright Microsoft and the Santa  
Cruz Operation inc, 1983), but when I try to install it from the boot  
floppy I get the following error:


pfcmd: handshake err 0103
pfcmd: handshake err 0103
pfcmd: handshake err 0103
pfcmd: handshake err 0103...(about 50 lines of this)
error on dev pf (0/0), block=7744 cmd=1 status=0

Does anyone know what this means

Cheers
Phil

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Re: Xenix. Sun Rem 2 meg card.

[Philip Lord]

Thanks for all the info...I'll try cleaning the contacts and see if  
that helps. Any idea how tho remove the sims from the card...I cant  
seem to pop then out?


Phil


On Jan 8, 2006, at 12:33 AM, Dr. Helmut Post wrote:


Hi everyone,
happy new year to the LisaList
and special greetings to Phil!




I have recently purchased (Xmas present to myself) one of John
Woodall's X-Profile boards, as my original drives are all failing. I
was going to try to build an IDEfile (and I may still do) but I worry
my skills were not up to par.
I am however really enjoying the fact that I can easily swap out the
compact flash card and have the lisa boot into a different system
within minitues.



I have the same X-Profile and the IDEfile as well.
All hard disks are working excellent.
I have found out that a Maxtor Diamond 9 series IDE hard disk (60GB  
in my
case) works best with my X/Profile. All others need hoours to  
format 2 GB

under MacWorks II+.


I now have flash cards with OS2, OS3.1, Pascal workshop and Basic
workshop. The only one I think I haven't tried yet is Xenix. I was
wondering if anyone knew where I could get a copy of Xenix for the
Lisa from?
Are there any more OS's that the Lisa can run that I am forgetting,
and where would I find these?


Please ask me.


I also wanted to thank Helmet who over the holidays helped me (via
email) fix and replace all the capacitors in my 1.8amp PSU. I was a
little tentative at first, but all went smoothly, and if I may say
so, I think I did a great job ;-)



No problem, Phil- I'm glad to help!


Another question for the list is regarding my 2 meg Sun Remarketing
memory card. Does anyone know what SIMs this card takes and where I
can get some from? The card has started giving me occasional errors
which is a little upsetting.


I have the same card as you do.
You should first do the following: Clean the PCB connectors with a  
rubber
eraser for example- I use Sidol for cleaning the contacts- I don't  
know if
it's available in USA under the same name- it is simply a metal  
cleaner to

clean silver spoons, brass bracelets etc
it removes any oxidation form the metal surface without doing any  
harm.



In the next step you should remove all your SIMM's and reseat them  
again in

the sockets.
You can't use standard 32 PIN Macintosh SIMM's, use IBM PC SIMM's  
instead -

the IBM uses a 9th RAM chip for parity, the Mac doesn't.
One exeption: special Macintosh IIci for government use needed the  
same

parity SIMM's as the IBM did.
120 ns or higher speeds are ok for the Lisa- even 150 ns should  
work fine.

But I don't think that the SIMM's have a malfunction- it seems to be a
contact problem.

I hope this helps you further...

Helmut


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Xenix. Sun Rem 2 meg card.

[Philip Lord]

Hi everyone,
Firstly, happy new year to the lisalist.

I have recently purchased (Xmas present to myself) one of John  
Woodall's X-Profile boards, as my original drives are all failing. I  
was going to try to build an IDEfile (and I may still do) but I worry  
my skills were not up to par.
I am however really enjoying the fact that I can easily swap out the  
compact flash card and have the lisa boot into a different system  
within minitues.
I now have flash cards with OS2, OS3.1, Pascal workshop and Basic  
workshop. The only one I think I haven't tried yet is Xenix. I was  
wondering if anyone knew where I could get a copy of Xenix for the  
Lisa from?
Are there any more OS's that the Lisa can run that I am forgetting,  
and where would I find these?


I also wanted to thank Helmet who over the holidays helped me (via  
email) fix and replace all the capacitors in my 1.8amp PSU. I was a  
little tentative at first, but all went smoothly, and if I may say  
so, I think I did a great job ;-)


Another question for the list is regarding my 2 meg Sun Remarketing  
memory card. Does anyone know what SIMs this card takes and where I  
can get some from? The card has started giving me occasional errors  
which is a little upsetting.


Cheers and much thanks.
Phil

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Re: Profile Cable

[Philip Lord]

I also heard that one pin may need to be removed from the SCSI cable.  
No idea what pin however.



On Dec 13, 2005, at 5:06 PM, macmoni wrote:


Hi Phil,

I replaced a few years ago the whole board of a Profile, because  
the owner used a SCSI instead a "profile-cable" as he told me, when  
I asked, what happened with his profile.
So I'm not really shure, but I won't try to perhaps kill a Profile  
doing so :-)


Anybody else, who has both cables and can do some compared measuring?

greetings TOM from Bavaria


Am 13.12.2005 um 06:40 schrieb Philip Lord:

Is it true that you can use a SCSI cable in place of a standard  
Profile drive cable?


Phil

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Profile Cable

[Philip Lord]

Is it true that you can use a SCSI cable in place of a standard  
Profile drive cable?


Phil

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Re: Lisa Keyboard Repair - Here comes how to...

[Philip Lord]

I have a spare keyboard I'd like to get going. There are maybe 10  
dead keys, and a few really sticky ones. what causes them to stick?


P


On Nov 6, 2005, at 7:36 PM, macmoni wrote:


Hi,

open the keyboard and check the board, whether you can see any  
corroded parts.
Then check with a Ohm-Meter, whether there is contact if you push  
the space bar.


If not, try to clean the button (often full of dust) with air  
pressure.
If yes, try to check the multiplex connection from the two pins of  
the button to other buttons and to the arry with a lot of pins in  
one row on top of the reverse side of the board. You can easily  
trace the connections visually, this is a one layer board.
If there are interrupted connections, just resolder them (the  
button itself, the perhaps interrupted connections) or just solder  
a new wire, where corrosion took place and destroyed the connections


No need to throw away and replace the original part of your Lisa !

greetings TOM from Bavaria, the center of europe, the marvellous  
castles of Koenig Ludwig e.g. Neuschwanstein and last but not least  
the original Oktoberfest !



Am 06.11.2005 um 03:59 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


I have a keyboard with one key (space bar) not working. Any  
suggestions?

Anyone have a working keyboard for sale?
Ron
San Diego
619-225-8281

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Re: Lisa 2: Bad Disk Drive

[Philip Lord]

I think you need the upgraded roms to use 800k drives. I can't tell  
if you have theses.


I saw the pics. The first think I would do is remove the leaking  
batteries from the I/O board, and clean the area below. Do this soon  
or the leaking acid will destroy your board.


Phil



On Nov 6, 2005, at 8:06 PM, Jerome Vernet wrote:


Hi,

After years, I finally get a Lisa 2. It come with 2 working Profile  
5 Mb, loaded with Macwork (?) and MacOs 5.

I Have two problems:
- the 3,5" disk drive seem to be dead. Make some noise at startup,  
but do not spin... I've dismantle it, cleaning grease, add grease,  
but no way Like if the head driver was dead.
Can I put a 800k drive from a MacPlus in it ? Even if it will be  
recognized as a 400k drive.


- the "on/off" switch: when I switch the Lisa off, it go off then  
on immediatly.


Any advice ?

My Lisa: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jerome.vernet/specs/lisa.htm


Jerome



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Re: Non-working Lisa PSU

[Philip Lord]

when you opened the PSU, did you before check, whether it's  
necessary to solder something inside?
No, I just opened and tightened/crimped the back of one of the Pots  
(using some pliers) that had come loose, and was wobbling. Did the  
trick.


What means: "a 1.2 (not working 95% of the time)" Did you ever try  
to figure out, why it works 5% ? And what did you change, so that  
it works, and what, so it doesn't work again?


When I got the lisa from Jerry, we both suspected a bad PSU. Jerry  
had not been able to get it to power on at all. When it arrived in  
Japan (100v vs US120v), It worked. Sporadically and briefly.
Now when I use the 1.2 amp PSU and push the power button, there is a  
chirp. Actually 2 chirps, one when you push in, and the other when  
you release the power button. Chirp Chirp!




...and by the way... Jason wrote: "The dual diode ended up being  
busted."
That is the reason of more than 60% of all non-working Lisa-PSU,  
cause this part is highly critical compared to the caps in the PSU


Interesting

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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

I do not have the plan for the 1.8 amp PSU.
I did have the plans for the 1.2 amp, if I can't find it on my  
computer, I'll download it again.


I have both a 1.2 (not working 95% of the time) and 1.8 amp PSUs. The  
1.8 amp PSU is working fine, however preventative maintenance on  the  
caps sounds like a great idea.


Also, If I was to replace the caps on the 1.2 amp PSU at the same  
time, would there be a good chance that it would bring it back to  
life? It would be nice to have a spare working PSU.


Al, nice to hear from you again. I've been following your threads  
over on the Apple II List.
I hate making offers, please let me know how much you would like for  
the book.
Not sure If I'm interested in the Profile drive, unless you have a  
dead unit from which I can use the case to mount the IDEfile into?


Thanks guys

Phil



On Nov 4, 2005, at 12:35 AM, Dr. Helmut Post wrote:


Hi Phil,

do you have a circuit plan of the PSU?
The 1.2 amp PSU circuit plan is available on the Internet- but the  
stronger
1.8 amp PSU plan is only available from John Woodall or James  
MacPhail- he

has produced these plans.
You should find the plans on Ebay or : www.vintagemicros.com (John's
homepage)

I can tell you which caps have to be (or should be) removed.
It's easy for the 1.2 amp PSU- just tell me if you have the plan.

Helmut

- Original Message -
From: "Philip Lord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning




Much thanks,
I'll see if I can't track this book down.

I just opened up an old broken 1.2amp supply to have a good look
inside. Not really sure what is what however.

If I can't find the book, would anyone know where the caps that need
to be replaced are located? (C-?)

P



On Nov 3, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Dr. Helmut Post wrote:



Phil,
I forgot to mention the following book:
Macintosh Repair & Upgrade Secrets by Larry Pina

Hayden books ISBN 0-672-48452-8

former price (in 1991): $32.95

There is a big Lisa section inside this book- the removal  
procedure of

electrolytic caps is very good illustrated with many pictures.


Helmut



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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

Much thanks,
I'll see if I can't track this book down.

I just opened up an old broken 1.2amp supply to have a good look  
inside. Not really sure what is what however.


If I can't find the book, would anyone know where the caps that need  
to be replaced are located? (C-?)


P



On Nov 3, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Dr. Helmut Post wrote:


Phil,
I forgot to mention the following book:
Macintosh Repair & Upgrade Secrets by Larry Pina

Hayden books ISBN 0-672-48452-8

former price (in 1991): $32.95

There is a big Lisa section inside this book- the removal procedure of
electrolytic caps is very good illustrated with many pictures.


Helmut



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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

If anyone is replacing the capacitors in the PSU, would they be able  
to document the process with photos and a descriptions. I would be  
more than willing to host the instructions on my .Mac account.


P

On Nov 3, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


As far as I can tell, they are the same as the keyboard pads.

P


On Nov 3, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Chris Riedl wrote:


   I certainly understand about the necessity to replace all old  
capacitors.  I have restored equipment much older than the Lisa in  
the past. This was something I was planning on doing very soon,  
not to mention keeping the Lisa from being used in the meantime.   
I was just making the statement that I believed that the previous  
problem had been fixed in the past, and that the power supply  
isn't missing any parts.


   On this note, does anyone think capacitors could be the problem  
with my Widget?  I suppose this could be the case, although I am  
guessing it is something more complicated.  Does anyone have a  
compiled list of capacitors needed to do a full recap of Lisa, or  
is that something that hasn't been documented?  I may as well make  
a list for those interested in doing so in the future, if there  
isn't one yet.


   Also, can anyone direct me to a source for the missing feet  
pads that Philip told me about in his reply?  I really don't like  
the Lisa rocking back and forth, and if they are similar to the  
pads used on the keyboard, I would presume there would be a source  
for them somewhere, as they were probably bought "off the shelf"  
rather than custom made for the Lisa project.


-Chris
- Original Message - From: "Jason Perkins"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning




You can do the caps now while everything is still working, or  
later after wong voltages have been going to the device for a  
while. Which would you prefer?


-J
- Original Message - From: "Chris Riedl"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning




   Actually, the Lisa appears to be just fine, other than the  
ghost Widget. I am guessing that something failed in the past  
and the power supply was repaired or replaced.  I wouldn't  
expect that someone doing that job would go through the trouble  
of taking the entire machine apart to clean up the mess.


-Chris
- Original Message - From: "Dr. Helmut Post"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:19 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning





Hi,
I have replaced all old electrolytic caps and the power surge  
caps in my
Lisa- no more problems- and the Voltages are more stable than  
ever before.
I have even exchanged all electrolytic caps in the video  
circuit- the

picture is now much better- the slight jitter is gone.
I'd recommend everyone to exchange all electrolytic caps inside  
the PSU and
the Video circuit- it makes a big difference and protects the  
Lisa for the

future.


- Original Message - From: "Chris Riedl"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning




Well, that was certainly an interesting escapade.   
Apparently a power
supply cap blew up sometime in the past, and there was crusted  
electrolyte
all over the one side.  Some cleaning of the chassis and case  
later, I




have


got the Lisa booting up.  However, it just appears as if the  
Widget is not
present to the system, as it only shows the floppy for  
startup.  The




Widget


spins up and sounds normal, but I guess it isn't being seen by  
the




hardware.



Any suggestions or things to try to pinpoint this further?




I'd recommend to turn the voice coil actuator manually during  
the spin-up,

self test procedure of the Widget.
Sometimes it helps

Helmut



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Re: error 85

[Philip Lord]

...one more quick observation. On the occasional time that the Lisa  
boots into 7/7, often the computer has 'Technical difficulties  
displaying x Paper".
It doesn't matter what what application, they all seem to have this  
problem 30% of the time.


Cheers

P




On Nov 3, 2005, at 9:28 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


e...ok!

it sounds like performing a low level format needs some special  
equipment that I'm not likely to have. If it can't be done on a Mac  
(now or old) or a Lisa, then I'm kinda screwed.


One other thing I have noticed is an error 10100 next to what I  
guess is the lisa equivalent of 'Sad-Mac'. Is this related to the  
drive? I can not find any reference to this code.


So, I will try to pursue the IDEfile direction. I have no knowledge  
of electronics, however I feel confident with the soldering  
challenge at least.
Helmut, it sounds like you have built one before. I may have some  
questions for you in the near future ;-)


I won't give up on the Sun REMarketing drive yet. Maybe I'll email  
SUN REM direct.
If I don't have the tools, maybe they can still reformat my drive  
for me.


Thanks for your reply

P


On Nov 3, 2005, at 5:58 PM, Dr. Helmut Post wrote:



Hello Phil,

error 85 means: you have reached the hard disk time-out limit...  
the hard
disk hasn't answered within a given time- probably the system  
track, boot
secor is bad . You need a fresh low level format.- or a new drive  
if the

number of bad blocks exceeds 30 counts.






I have just finished telling the list that I got my SUN REM drive
working again, and that I thought the cause was overheating
(Installed a fan). However I still get constant error 85 messages.

If I reinstall 7/7 everything seems fine, for a short while, then
error 85 starts happening again.





Probably a thermal error with one of the chips ... probably the  
SMS OMTI

20813B (MFM controller).
Do you have a freezing spray to cool down the chips to locate the  
error on

the controller?
I have the same problems- no way to get these chips today- only if  
you rip
the chips from an Amiga 1000 sidecar (PC-XT hardware expansion  
box) or form

an old Atari ST MFM hard disk controller.




The SUN REM drive uses a Kalok KL320 (20mb) MFM drive. I guess these
are getting very old now. Maybe I need to look for another 20mb MFM
drive to replace the Kalok with. Will any MFM 20mb drive work? For
example Kyocera KC020, Miniscribe m8425 or Western General WD362.



Yes, you can use all these disks- provided that your controller is  
ok.
I'm testing these MFM hard disks on my old 80486 IBM AT with an  
Adaptec ACB

2310 MFM controller card.
But: You have to know how to perform a low level format on the SUN
controller first!



Or even better, does an adaptor exist for MFM to IDE? I couldn't  
find

one by doing an internet search.




No, there is no such adapter- as far as I know.
Choose the IDEFile instead- it's offering full future Widget  
compatibility

as is fully Profile compatible (5 MB and 10MB).





However, for the life of the machine, I still believe the IDEfile is
the best option for the future. I should start thinking seriously
about this option, otherwise 7/7 will be lost to my machine for  
ever.






Yes, I'll  recommend you this controller- it's really great!


Helmut




Thanks

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Re: error 85

[Philip Lord]

e...ok!

it sounds like performing a low level format needs some special  
equipment that I'm not likely to have. If it can't be done on a Mac  
(now or old) or a Lisa, then I'm kinda screwed.


One other thing I have noticed is an error 10100 next to what I guess  
is the lisa equivalent of 'Sad-Mac'. Is this related to the drive? I  
can not find any reference to this code.


So, I will try to pursue the IDEfile direction. I have no knowledge  
of electronics, however I feel confident with the soldering challenge  
at least.
Helmut, it sounds like you have built one before. I may have some  
questions for you in the near future ;-)


I won't give up on the Sun REMarketing drive yet. Maybe I'll email  
SUN REM direct.
If I don't have the tools, maybe they can still reformat my drive for  
me.


Thanks for your reply

P


On Nov 3, 2005, at 5:58 PM, Dr. Helmut Post wrote:


Hello Phil,

error 85 means: you have reached the hard disk time-out limit...  
the hard
disk hasn't answered within a given time- probably the system  
track, boot
secor is bad . You need a fresh low level format.- or a new drive  
if the

number of bad blocks exceeds 30 counts.





I have just finished telling the list that I got my SUN REM drive
working again, and that I thought the cause was overheating
(Installed a fan). However I still get constant error 85 messages.

If I reinstall 7/7 everything seems fine, for a short while, then
error 85 starts happening again.




Probably a thermal error with one of the chips ... probably the SMS  
OMTI

20813B (MFM controller).
Do you have a freezing spray to cool down the chips to locate the  
error on

the controller?
I have the same problems- no way to get these chips today- only if  
you rip
the chips from an Amiga 1000 sidecar (PC-XT hardware expansion box)  
or form

an old Atari ST MFM hard disk controller.



The SUN REM drive uses a Kalok KL320 (20mb) MFM drive. I guess these
are getting very old now. Maybe I need to look for another 20mb MFM
drive to replace the Kalok with. Will any MFM 20mb drive work? For
example Kyocera KC020, Miniscribe m8425 or Western General WD362.



Yes, you can use all these disks- provided that your controller is ok.
I'm testing these MFM hard disks on my old 80486 IBM AT with an  
Adaptec ACB

2310 MFM controller card.
But: You have to know how to perform a low level format on the SUN
controller first!



Or even better, does an adaptor exist for MFM to IDE? I couldn't find
one by doing an internet search.



No, there is no such adapter- as far as I know.
Choose the IDEFile instead- it's offering full future Widget  
compatibility

as is fully Profile compatible (5 MB and 10MB).




However, for the life of the machine, I still believe the IDEfile is
the best option for the future. I should start thinking seriously
about this option, otherwise 7/7 will be lost to my machine for ever.




Yes, I'll  recommend you this controller- it's really great!


Helmut



Thanks

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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

As far as I can tell, they are the same as the keyboard pads.

P


On Nov 3, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Chris Riedl wrote:

   I certainly understand about the necessity to replace all old  
capacitors.  I have restored equipment much older than the Lisa in  
the past. This was something I was planning on doing very soon, not  
to mention keeping the Lisa from being used in the meantime.  I was  
just making the statement that I believed that the previous problem  
had been fixed in the past, and that the power supply isn't missing  
any parts.


   On this note, does anyone think capacitors could be the problem  
with my Widget?  I suppose this could be the case, although I am  
guessing it is something more complicated.  Does anyone have a  
compiled list of capacitors needed to do a full recap of Lisa, or  
is that something that hasn't been documented?  I may as well make  
a list for those interested in doing so in the future, if there  
isn't one yet.


   Also, can anyone direct me to a source for the missing feet pads  
that Philip told me about in his reply?  I really don't like the  
Lisa rocking back and forth, and if they are similar to the pads  
used on the keyboard, I would presume there would be a source for  
them somewhere, as they were probably bought "off the shelf" rather  
than custom made for the Lisa project.


-Chris
- Original Message - From: "Jason Perkins"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning



You can do the caps now while everything is still working, or  
later after wong voltages have been going to the device for a  
while. Which would you prefer?


-J
- Original Message - From: "Chris Riedl"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning



   Actually, the Lisa appears to be just fine, other than the  
ghost Widget. I am guessing that something failed in the past and  
the power supply was repaired or replaced.  I wouldn't expect  
that someone doing that job would go through the trouble of  
taking the entire machine apart to clean up the mess.


-Chris
- Original Message - From: "Dr. Helmut Post"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:19 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning




Hi,
I have replaced all old electrolytic caps and the power surge  
caps in my
Lisa- no more problems- and the Voltages are more stable than  
ever before.
I have even exchanged all electrolytic caps in the video  
circuit- the

picture is now much better- the slight jitter is gone.
I'd recommend everyone to exchange all electrolytic caps inside  
the PSU and
the Video circuit- it makes a big difference and protects the  
Lisa for the

future.


- Original Message - From: "Chris Riedl"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning



Well, that was certainly an interesting escapade.   
Apparently a power
supply cap blew up sometime in the past, and there was crusted  
electrolyte
all over the one side.  Some cleaning of the chassis and case  
later, I



have

got the Lisa booting up.  However, it just appears as if the  
Widget is not
present to the system, as it only shows the floppy for  
startup.  The



Widget


spins up and sounds normal, but I guess it isn't being seen by the


hardware.


Any suggestions or things to try to pinpoint this further?



I'd recommend to turn the voice coil actuator manually during  
the spin-up,

self test procedure of the Widget.
Sometimes it helps

Helmut



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error 85

[Philip Lord]

Does anyone know what causes a drive toy give an error 85 (drive  
can't keep up)?


I have just finished telling the list that I got my SUN REM drive  
working again, and that I thought the cause was overheating  
(Installed a fan). However I still get constant error 85 messages.


If I reinstall 7/7 everything seems fine, for a short while, then  
error 85 starts happening again.


The SUN REM drive uses a Kalok KL320 (20mb) MFM drive. I guess these  
are getting very old now. Maybe I need to look for another 20mb MFM  
drive to replace the Kalok with. Will any MFM 20mb drive work? For  
example Kyocera KC020, Miniscribe m8425 or Western General WD362.


Or even better, does an adaptor exist for MFM to IDE? I couldn't find  
one by doing an internet search.


However, for the life of the machine, I still believe the IDEfile is  
the best option for the future. I should start thinking seriously  
about this option, otherwise 7/7 will be lost to my machine for ever.


Thanks

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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

Yes, two grey square (about 15mm x 15mm) feet. I would guess they are  
about 6-7mm in height.


If the Lisa does not see the Widget, I would not know what else to  
try. I'm sure someone else would have a good idea though.


P

On Nov 2, 2005, at 5:37 PM, Chris Riedl wrote:

   Well, that was certainly an interesting escapade.  Apparently a  
power supply cap blew up sometime in the past, and there was  
crusted electrolyte all over the one side.  Some cleaning of the  
chassis and case later, I have got the Lisa booting up.  However,  
it just appears as if the Widget is not present to the system, as  
it only shows the floppy for startup.  The Widget spins up and  
sounds normal, but I guess it isn't being seen by the hardware. Any  
suggestions or things to try to pinpoint this further?


   Mounting the IDEFile inside an old ProFile case isn't a bad  
idea.  I might just do that.  Additionally, are there supposed to  
be pads on the little feet on the bottom of the Lisa?  It isn't  
completely stable on a flat surface, and I believe I put the case  
back together properly, so maybe they were missing from the beginning.


Thanks,
Chris
- Original Message - From: "Philip Lord"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning



If I build one (I'm still not convinced I have the skill level),  
I  was thinking of mounting it inside an original Profile Drive  
case,  where the internals are long dead. Keep it classic.


Did you get an error number from your widget drive?



On Nov 2, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Chris Riedl wrote:


   I would be interested in building one.  I'm an Electrical   
Engineering student, so assembling a board is something I'm   
proficient at. If I am going to go through the trouble I'd like  
to  get one of the PCBs that he is offering, since it would be  
more  professional and easier in the long run. It definitely  
deserves a  case, too.


   I've almost got my Lisa apart now, so I figured out how   
everything is attached.  I was told that the Widget was having   
problems, so that will be my next quest.  Once I boot it up  
after  putting everything back together, I will see what exactly  
is going  on.  Otherwise, the machine looks to be in great shape  
other than  some minor problems from being neglected in a  
basement or something.


-Chris
- Original Message - From: "Philip Lord"   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning




I sent the IDEfile guy an email yesterday. Do you want to build   
one? I'm keen.



On Nov 2, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Chris Riedl wrote:




Greetings,

 After quite a bit of waiting, my Lisa has arrived!  I am  
currently in the process of dismantling everything in order  
to   clean it up, as it looks like the outer casing was dirty   
wherever  it had been kept at some point.  I was curious how  
the  top, sides,  and bottom casing pieces are removed so that  
I can  clean them.


   Additionally, I was curious if anyone on-list knew what  
style  of power cord came with Lisa, as well as the number of  
tabs  included with the keyboard.  I'm attempting to make sure   
everything is here.


   Finally, has anyone had contact with the gentleman who   
designed the IDEFile hard drive?  I sent him email a while  
back,  but never received a response.


Thanks,
Chris

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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

I'm sure most of you have seen this, but here it is again:

http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm

Dr. Patrick Schäfer is obviously a man on a mission. I think he wants  
to preserve the life of his Apple III and Apple Lisa indefinitely.  
Sound good to me.




On Nov 2, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Chris Riedl wrote:

   I would be interested in building one.  I'm an Electrical  
Engineering student, so assembling a board is something I'm  
proficient at.  If I am going to go through the trouble I'd like to  
get one of the PCBs that he is offering, since it would be more  
professional and easier in the long run. It definitely deserves a  
case, too.


   I've almost got my Lisa apart now, so I figured out how  
everything is attached.  I was told that the Widget was having  
problems, so that will be my next quest.  Once I boot it up after  
putting everything back together, I will see what exactly is going  
on.  Otherwise, the machine looks to be in great shape other than  
some minor problems from being neglected in a basement or something.


-Chris
- Original Message - From: "Philip Lord"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning



I sent the IDEfile guy an email yesterday. Do you want to build  
one?  I'm keen.



On Nov 2, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Chris Riedl wrote:



Greetings,

 After quite a bit of waiting, my Lisa has arrived!  I am   
currently in the process of dismantling everything in order to   
clean it up, as it looks like the outer casing was dirty  
wherever  it had been kept at some point.  I was curious how the  
top, sides,  and bottom casing pieces are removed so that I can  
clean them.


   Additionally, I was curious if anyone on-list knew what style  
of power cord came with Lisa, as well as the number of tabs  
included  with the keyboard.  I'm attempting to make sure  
everything is here.


   Finally, has anyone had contact with the gentleman who  
designed  the IDEFile hard drive?  I sent him email a while back,  
but never  received a response.


Thanks,
Chris

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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

If I build one (I'm still not convinced I have the skill level), I  
was thinking of mounting it inside an original Profile Drive case,  
where the internals are long dead. Keep it classic.


Did you get an error number from your widget drive?



On Nov 2, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Chris Riedl wrote:

   I would be interested in building one.  I'm an Electrical  
Engineering student, so assembling a board is something I'm  
proficient at.  If I am going to go through the trouble I'd like to  
get one of the PCBs that he is offering, since it would be more  
professional and easier in the long run. It definitely deserves a  
case, too.


   I've almost got my Lisa apart now, so I figured out how  
everything is attached.  I was told that the Widget was having  
problems, so that will be my next quest.  Once I boot it up after  
putting everything back together, I will see what exactly is going  
on.  Otherwise, the machine looks to be in great shape other than  
some minor problems from being neglected in a basement or something.


-Chris
- Original Message - From: "Philip Lord"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "LisaList" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning



I sent the IDEfile guy an email yesterday. Do you want to build  
one?  I'm keen.



On Nov 2, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Chris Riedl wrote:



Greetings,

 After quite a bit of waiting, my Lisa has arrived!  I am   
currently in the process of dismantling everything in order to   
clean it up, as it looks like the outer casing was dirty  
wherever  it had been kept at some point.  I was curious how the  
top, sides,  and bottom casing pieces are removed so that I can  
clean them.


   Additionally, I was curious if anyone on-list knew what style  
of power cord came with Lisa, as well as the number of tabs  
included  with the keyboard.  I'm attempting to make sure  
everything is here.


   Finally, has anyone had contact with the gentleman who  
designed  the IDEFile hard drive?  I sent him email a while back,  
but never  received a response.


Thanks,
Chris

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Re: Taking apart Lisa - cleaning

[Philip Lord]

I sent the IDEfile guy an email yesterday. Do you want to build one?  
I'm keen.



On Nov 2, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Chris Riedl wrote:


Greetings,

 After quite a bit of waiting, my Lisa has arrived!  I am  
currently in the process of dismantling everything in order to  
clean it up, as it looks like the outer casing was dirty wherever  
it had been kept at some point.  I was curious how the top, sides,  
and bottom casing pieces are removed so that I can clean them.


   Additionally, I was curious if anyone on-list knew what style of  
power cord came with Lisa, as well as the number of tabs included  
with the keyboard.  I'm attempting to make sure everything is here.


   Finally, has anyone had contact with the gentleman who designed  
the IDEFile hard drive?  I sent him email a while back, but never  
received a response.


Thanks,
Chris

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Re: 7/7 install failed on SUN REM drive

[Philip Lord]

So I figured out my "install 7/7" problem.
Basically the SUN REM drive was overheating. In fact I've never felt  
any piece of electronics get quite that hot, except for maybe a 12"  
G4 powerbook ;-)


The drive would work fine for a while and then begin to fail as it  
heated up. It wouldn't take long either ...maybe 30mins.


I have subsequently installed a fan and now everything keeps nice and  
cool.

Cool!

Not sure if this is the same problem Joe was having with his Profile.

Cheers

Phil



On Oct 25, 2005, at 12:26 AM, Philip Lord wrote:

I got the latest copies from John Woodall, He was nice enough to  
make two copies for me for the price of one.


http://vintagemicros.com/


On Oct 24, 2005, at 9:37 PM, Joe Vogel wrote:



Hello.
Iam still having the same problem with my profiles.

Does anyone know where I may get a copy of MMII+ ?

thanks.






Any ideas what the problem could be? As I



mentioned when formatted



for MWII+ the drive seems works flawlessly.


Cheers

Phil

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Re: 7/7 install failed on SUN REM drive

[Philip Lord]

I got the latest copies from John Woodall, He was nice enough to make  
two copies for me for the price of one.


http://vintagemicros.com/


On Oct 24, 2005, at 9:37 PM, Joe Vogel wrote:


Hello.
Iam still having the same problem with my profiles.

Does anyone know where I may get a copy of MMII+ ?

thanks.





Any ideas what the problem could be? As I


mentioned when formatted


for MWII+ the drive seems works flawlessly.


Cheers

Phil

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Re: 7/7 install failed on SUN REM drive

[Philip Lord]

Hi Rick,
No I don't have the screen mod installed.

Phil


On Oct 23, 2005, at 7:59 AM, Rick wrote:

Does your system have the screen mod installed?  (7/7 will not work  
if the

screen mod has been performed).  HTH,
Rick



From: Philip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "LisaList" 
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:21:08 +0900
To: "LisaList" 
Subject: 7/7 install failed on SUN REM drive

Hi again,
Yes, I'm back with yet more questions. I figure someone has to keep
this list active ;-)

I have managed to get the SUN REM internal drive up and running.
Everything seems to work perfectly when formatted with MW II+, but
when I reformat and install 7/7, and upon restart I get three
distinct errors.

- the machine will reboot halfway through the system load sequence,
taking me back to the self test screen.
- sometimes I get error 85
- sometimes (when the boot process seems to get a little further) I
get a prompt from the system saying something like "environments
window process failed exptr = 7", and then the lisa restarts


Any ideas what the problem could be? As I mentioned when formatted
for MWII+ the drive seems works flawlessly.


Cheers

Phil

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7/7 install failed on SUN REM drive

[Philip Lord]

Hi again,
Yes, I'm back with yet more questions. I figure someone has to keep  
this list active ;-)


I have managed to get the SUN REM internal drive up and running.  
Everything seems to work perfectly when formatted with MW II+, but  
when I reformat and install 7/7, and upon restart I get three  
distinct errors.


- the machine will reboot halfway through the system load sequence,  
taking me back to the self test screen.

- sometimes I get error 85
- sometimes (when the boot process seems to get a little further) I  
get a prompt from the system saying something like "environments  
window process failed exptr = 7", and then the lisa restarts



Any ideas what the problem could be? As I mentioned when formatted  
for MWII+ the drive seems works flawlessly.



Cheers

Phil

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Re: PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

SHE LIVES!!!

Thank you everyone for helping out and putting up with all my  
question. I couldn't have done it without you all.


The only thing that needs to be done now is mount the SCSI drive  
internally.


I wasn't getting anywhere with the 340 Conner drive, so I formatted a  
4 gig Apple drive with a slightly less than 2 gig partition. This  
seemed to solve any issues I was having with the other drive.


It's been a great learning experience.

My next project is to get lisa OS running. Do I have to downgrade the  
roms and 800k drive to do this?


Thanks again,  I'm sure I'll have more question in the future.

Cheers

Phil

P.S. I have not seen any issues with having no Apple ram installed,  
but I'll keep it in the back of my mind if something bad crops up.



On Oct 17, 2005, at 3:51 AM, Rick wrote:


I have the 'Pro' version of the PFG. I also have a single 2 meg SUN
REM card installed (fully loaded with ram). No 512k cards installed.


F.Y.I., there is an issue when no apple 512K card is installed (I  
don't

remember what it was but I know it caused problems). So it was always
recommended for a 2meg config, that an Apple 512K was used in mem  
slot 2
(closest to the edge of the card cage) and the Sun Card with 1.5  
Megs in mem
slot 1.  Also you must use 256Kx9 SIMM's (with parity bit) on the  
SUN card,

most Mac SIMM's of the time are 256Kx8 without parity.  H.T.H.
Rick


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Re: PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Hello all,
I have the 'Pro' version of the PFG. I also have a single 2 meg SUN  
REM card installed (fully loaded with ram). No 512k cards installed.


Some progress:
I got the old Conner 340 drive to be seen by the lisa!!!
I didn't reformat it, but when it mounted many of the files that were  
seen on the mac, were invisible. I even copied over MW XL3.0 onto the  
drive and managed to boot from the drive...extremly unstable though.
I decided a reformat was in order...but after I did the reformat in  
OS9.2, the Lisa froze every time looking for the SCSI drive.

So I tried to use FWB's HDT 4.5 and reformat the drive with that.
This time there was no freeze, but a SadMac code:

0F0002: Address error2, Unimplemented trap executed2

I have tried to mount the drive on my MacPortable so that I can  
format it with some older system that OS9, however the Portable  
refuses to see the external HD.


So the good news is the SCSI card seems to be working (I mounted the  
drive once at least), I just need to figure out the formatting I think.


Thanks again guys

Phil


On Oct 16, 2005, at 12:36 AM, Philip Lord wrote:

Does anyone know why some postings to the lisalist just seem to  
disappear? Kind of annoying/strange.


Phil

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Re: PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Does anyone know why some postings to the lisalist just seem to  
disappear? Kind of annoying/strange.


Phil

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Re: PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Yes, I have tried holding down the option key, but it does not seem  
to work.
However I have a broken keyboard (that was given to me) with many  
dead keys, I am waiting for a fully usable keyboard to arrive soon. I  
do believe that the left option key is functional thought, but it  
still does not seem to change anything with regards to the SCSI crash.


Also the drive is fully terminated.

Thanks

Phil


On Oct 15, 2005, at 4:35 AM, Rick wrote:


Simply unplugging the drive will not cause this hang and the Lisa
will boot fine.

If a SCSI drive is connected, MW+II with try to boot from it,  
sounds like
this is failing.  MW+II has an option force floppy boot up (MacOS)  
even with
a drive connected (holding one of the option keys at startup).   
Have you
tried this?  After using the MW+II "boot" disk, you don't need to  
use the
MW+II "System" disk, just boot your own bootable floppy like it was  
any

other Mac (400K or 800K).




My next step is to make sure the drive it is formatted correctly. Can
I do this from within OS9? or does it need to be older?

An OS9 formatted disk will work (I have done this, although I would  
not
recommend it), as long as it's HFS and not HFS+.  The bigger  
problem here
unless the drive has an apple ROM, you may need a 3rd party app to  
format it
on an older system.  Also be careful hooking up the drive, SCSI  
termination

issues abound on the SUN SCSI card (just like a real mac plus).

Rick


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Re: PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

James, Helmut, Tom and Rick, THANKS.

My goal is to install 7.1 onto a SCSI drive.
I have the SCSI card, with no quickboot chip. (and of course  the PFG)

I now have the floppy working...hurray
The problem was the media. I know have new 'copys' of MWII+ and it  
loads fine.


I have given up on the Sun Rum parallel drive for the time being.  
I'll figure out what the problem is later...maybe it's just dead...


I also have a SCSI HD (340mb) CONNER drive, that has an unknown  
format. Maybe it's Mac formatted, Maybe not.

I don't (at present) have an external case to put the drive in to test.

The problem now comes when attaching this drive to the Lisa and  
booting from MWII+ will cause an error when loading the second  
'system' disk, and prompts for a restart.


Simply unplugging the drive will not cause this hang and the Lisa  
will boot fine.


My next step is to make sure the drive it is formatted correctly. Can  
I do this from within OS9? or does it need to be older?


Getting closer.

Phil






On Oct 13, 2005, at 8:34 AM, James MacPhail wrote:


One quick question...without the PGF will the lisa (with 800k floppy)
still see the MW Plus II disk? my MW Plus II gets spit out  
immediatly.




It is possible to boot MW+II on a Lisa without a PFG, but it is then
limited to older versions of the Mac system software and IIRC,  
there are

various other restrictions.

There are two MW+II floppy disks, one is a 400k Lisa Boot disk, the  
other

is an 800k Mac disk.

After a cold boot, you will need to "startup from" the 400k Lisa  
Boot disk.

If you are using the other disk, it will not be recognized and thus
rejected. If Lisa is rejecting the 400K Lisa Boot disk, then the  
disk or

the drive may be damaged.

HTH,

James

James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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An update - was: PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Thanks for the PDF's...

Just to clarify, I have a Lisa with 800k drive and roms with a spare  
(dead?) widget replaced by a Sun Rem Parallel internal drive. Having  
recently purchased this from Jerry, he confirms that this was a  
working setup 3 years ago.


Up until recently it was dead. I replaced the 1.2amp power with a 1.8  
and all seems good except I get errors when the Sun Rem drive is  
attached...it boots from floppy no problem to Apple Macworks.


I have been unable to connect the Widget for testing because the  
power connector inside the lisa is not pin compatible...have a look  
here:


http://homepage.mac.com/lord_philip/PhotoAlbum11.html

I also have a SCSI card and an unformatted HD that I would like to  
install. I was hoping to use copy(s) of MacWorks II + to try to  
achieve this. However I can not get the lisa to see these disks. The  
will be spit out with error 23 (Disk Unreadable), I have tried it  
with 2 original disk and 2 copies that I made from the  
internet...strange that nothing works.


I installed a PFG card that I got from the same guy who sold me the  
PSU. I thought that this may solve the no launch MW II+ problem, but  
nothing changed. Still gets spit out.


So my 2 immediate questions are:
Does anyone know how to go about reformatting and installing a SCSI  
drive...by only using floppies?

and
Why the hell wont the floppies work? grr

Cheers
Phil



On Oct 13, 2005, at 8:13 AM, Philip Lord wrote:


Yes please...could you email both manuals to me.

One quick question...without the PGF will the lisa (with 800k  
floppy) still see the MW Plus II disk? my MW Plus II gets spit out  
immediatly.


Much thanks

Phil



On Oct 13, 2005, at 8:06 AM, James MacPhail wrote:


The PFG (Programmable Frequency Generator) installation  
instructions are in

the MacWorks Plus II manual.

If you don't have this manual, I will be happy to send it to you  
as pdf; it

is about 320k.

The manual for the MacWorks Plus II "Series 1 Update" is another 48k.

Anyone else needing one or both of these manuals, just let me know  
(I will
send stuffed files unless you request otherwise). I hope to get  
them on a

web site eventually.

To be clear, the PFG has no effect unless you are running MacWorks  
Plus II,

and the PFG is required to run MacWorks Plus II.

HTH,

James




I just got a "programable Frequency Generator'. Unfortunately I do
not have the manual.

Can anyone tell me where the red and black wires go to?




James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<http://SigmaSevenSystems.com>



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Re: PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Yes please...could you email both manuals to me.

One quick question...without the PGF will the lisa (with 800k floppy)  
still see the MW Plus II disk? my MW Plus II gets spit out immediatly.


Much thanks

Phil



On Oct 13, 2005, at 8:06 AM, James MacPhail wrote:

The PFG (Programmable Frequency Generator) installation  
instructions are in

the MacWorks Plus II manual.

If you don't have this manual, I will be happy to send it to you as  
pdf; it

is about 320k.

The manual for the MacWorks Plus II "Series 1 Update" is another 48k.

Anyone else needing one or both of these manuals, just let me know  
(I will
send stuffed files unless you request otherwise). I hope to get  
them on a

web site eventually.

To be clear, the PFG has no effect unless you are running MacWorks  
Plus II,

and the PFG is required to run MacWorks Plus II.

HTH,

James



I just got a "programable Frequency Generator'. Unfortunately I do
not have the manual.

Can anyone tell me where the red and black wires go to?



James MacPhail   "Think not of engineering as art,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] but of art as engineering"
Sigma Seven Systems Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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PFG Lisa

[Philip Lord]

Hi Again,
I just got a "programable Frequency Generator'. Unfortunately I do  
not have the manual.


Can anyone tell me where the red and black wires go to?

Much thanks

Phil



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Re: Question about 1 vs 2

[Philip Lord]

Thank you vert very much...I'll give it a go now.

Phil


On Oct 8, 2005, at 9:36 PM, Guido Deiana wrote:


Hi Philip,
I've prepared for you some image files that will be usefull.
You can download them directly from my website:
http://www.deiana.com/lisa/

- LOS3.1#1.dart.hqx is the binexed image, in DART format, for the
Lisa OS 3.1 US boot disk ;
- MacWorksXL_TEST_Ver3.0.dart.hqx is the binexed image, in DART
format, for the MacWorksXL TEST v.3.0 (LISA Format, it boot directly
and test correctly the Mac XL hardware).
- DART.sit.hqx is the binexed stuffit compressed application to use
to create the floppies (Use an old Mac to launch Dart).
Ciao,

Guido Deiana
Padova, Italy

 Messaggio Originale 

==> Da: Philip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
==> Data: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:30:26  0900

As my HD is non functional at present, I was wondering if anyone has
a bootable disk image that they could email me and I can continue
testing my lisa with?

Or even better does anyone know where I can download a bootable disk
image?

Cheers

Phil

 On Oct 6, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


Thanks again for the insights. > > I have done a little more  
testing: > > - Error 57 with Parallel cable plugged in (rear port)  
> - Will not attempt to boot from floppy with parallel cable >  
unplugged (from rear), but no error 57. Waits on 'insert floppy' >  
prompt. Does not see floppy > - With all internal cables unplugged  
from HD, floppy will attempt > to boot. However it is ejected very  
quickly. I assume It can not > find the system on the disc (I can  
not confirm 100% if I actually > have a bootable floppy) > > As  
Tom mentioned, I think these could all be symptoms of bad power, >  
bad drive or bad drive controller board. > And as jerry mentioned,  
this setup was working (as is) a few years > back, so It is very  
unlikely to be a ROM version problem, or > mismatched  
parts ...will investigate further. > > Cheers > > Phil > > On Oct  
5, 2005, at 5:07 PM, macmoni wrote: > > >> Hi Philip, >> >> short  
answers again :-) >> >> >>> >>> ...has what looks like a Sun Rem   
20 meg HD installed internally >>> with a cable... >>> >>> >>  
definiteley a later-on upgraded Lisa. Very likely not by Apple !  
>> >> >>> >>> Can I boot from a floppy without a keyboard and  
mouse??? >>> >>> >> Yes, of course; no problem. But then you can't  
do some further >> tests - without mouse or keyboard... >> To shut  
down the Lisa again, you will have to push the start >> button  
again and wait some seconds until you hear a "clack" and >> the  
screen will get dark. >> >> >>> >>> 'If' the floppy works then I  
can assume the Sun Rem HD, or HD >>> controller card is bad. Would  
I be correct? >>> >>> >> Yes, or this Sun Remarketing HD  
interferes with the Lite-Adapter >> or the ROM on the IO Board, as  
I wrote in my last email yesterday. >> Or the whole configuration  
consumes so much power, that your >> (still built in) 1.2 A power  
supply isn't able to feed :-) >> Or somebody interchanged the IO  
Board. You cannot run every type >> of IO-Boards in a Lisa, when  
you want to use a HardDisk >> (especially the early Boards). >> >>  
>>> >>> ...mouse is a M0100... the same as the Mac 128/512k's  
mouse. >>> However the connector on the back of the lisa does not  
look like >>> the connector on the original Macs... >>> >>> >>  
There were three kinds of mice available: >> >> The first ones for  
Lisa (and for Apple II with Mouse Card in the >> expansion slot).  
Characteristic was the plastic connector which >> could be  
described as an rectangle with round corners and the >> upper side  
of the rectangle was additional 3mm spared out. >> The second  
mouse (chronological) was the Mac 1984 mouse (later >> renamed Mac  
128k). The connector is much bigger, cause it now has >> two  
screws with huge knobs. The Pins are the same, so it will fit >>  
like the first mouse. >> >> The third mouse has a much smaller  
connector again, but the two >> scres remained, although they are  
not so big (smaller diameter) >> >> All these three types of mice  
will fit in the connector-plug of a >> Lisa. >> I had a Prototype  
of a Lisa 1, which had a connector, which only >> supports the  
mouse 1, cause there was this rectangle "nose" on top >> of the  
connector of the motherboard. >> >> >>> >>> On the occasions when

Re: Question about 1 vs 2

[Philip Lord]

As my HD is non functional at present, I was wondering if anyone has  
a bootable disk image that they could email me and I can continue  
testing my lisa with?


Or even better does anyone know where I can download a bootable disk  
image?


Cheers

Phil


On Oct 6, 2005, at 12:18 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


Thanks again for the insights.

I have done a little more testing:

- Error 57 with Parallel cable plugged in (rear port)
- Will not attempt to boot from floppy with parallel cable  
unplugged (from rear), but no error 57. Waits on 'insert floppy'  
prompt. Does not see floppy
- With all internal cables unplugged from HD, floppy will attempt  
to boot. However it is ejected very quickly. I assume It can not  
find the system on the disc (I can not confirm 100% if I actually  
have a bootable floppy)


As Tom mentioned, I think these could all be symptoms of bad power,  
bad drive or bad drive controller board.
And as jerry mentioned, this setup was working (as is) a few years  
back, so It is very unlikely to be a ROM version problem, or  
mismatched parts ...will investigate further.


Cheers

Phil

On Oct 5, 2005, at 5:07 PM, macmoni wrote:



Hi Philip,

short answers again :-)




...has what looks like a Sun Rem  20 meg HD installed internally  
with a cable...




definiteley a later-on upgraded Lisa. Very likely not by Apple !




Can I boot from a floppy without a keyboard and mouse???


Yes, of course; no problem. But then you can't do some further  
tests - without mouse or keyboard...
To shut down the Lisa again, you will have to push the start  
button again and wait some seconds until you hear a "clack" and  
the screen will get dark.





'If' the floppy works then I can assume the Sun Rem HD, or HD  
controller card is bad. Would I be correct?



Yes, or this Sun Remarketing HD interferes with the Lite-Adapter  
or the ROM on the IO Board, as I wrote in my last email yesterday.  
Or the whole configuration consumes so much power, that your  
(still built in) 1.2 A power supply isn't able to feed :-)
Or somebody interchanged the IO Board. You cannot run every type  
of IO-Boards in a Lisa, when you want to use a HardDisk  
(especially the early Boards).





...mouse is a M0100... the same as the Mac 128/512k's mouse.  
However the connector on the back of the lisa does not look like  
the connector on the original Macs...




There were three kinds of mice available:

The first ones for Lisa (and for Apple II with Mouse Card in the  
expansion slot). Characteristic was the plastic connector which  
could be described as an rectangle with round corners and the  
upper side of the rectangle was additional 3mm spared out.
The second mouse (chronological) was the Mac 1984 mouse (later  
renamed Mac 128k). The connector is much bigger, cause it now has  
two screws with huge knobs. The Pins are the same, so it will fit  
like the first mouse.


The third mouse has a much smaller connector again, but the two  
scres remained, although they are not so big (smaller diameter)


All these three types of mice will fit in the connector-plug of a  
Lisa.
I had a Prototype of a Lisa 1, which had a connector, which only  
supports the mouse 1, cause there was this rectangle "nose" on top  
of the connector of the motherboard.





On the occasions when the power supply works, the monitor will  
occasionally shift of flicker very slightly, this movement seems  
rhythmically timed




interesting !
I never saw this before. Chaotic, yes, but predictable, cause  
rhytmically...

What time periods?


 with a quiet hissing noise from the PSU. I'm waiting for a 1.8  
amp PSU to arrive soon.




That's better, in deed !

Greetings TOM from bavaria, the center of europe, the country of  
the alps, the marvellous castles of Koenig Ludwig and the original  
Oktoberfest


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Re: Question about 1 vs 2

[Philip Lord]

Thanks again for the insights.

I have done a little more testing:

- Error 57 with Parallel cable plugged in (rear port)
- Will not attempt to boot from floppy with parallel cable unplugged  
(from rear), but no error 57. Waits on 'insert floppy' prompt. Does  
not see floppy
- With all internal cables unplugged from HD, floppy will attempt to  
boot. However it is ejected very quickly. I assume It can not find  
the system on the disc (I can not confirm 100% if I actually have a  
bootable floppy)


As Tom mentioned, I think these could all be symptoms of bad power,  
bad drive or bad drive controller board.
And as jerry mentioned, this setup was working (as is) a few years  
back, so It is very unlikely to be a ROM version problem, or  
mismatched parts ...will investigate further.


Cheers

Phil



On Oct 5, 2005, at 5:07 PM, macmoni wrote:


Hi Philip,

short answers again :-)



...has what looks like a Sun Rem  20 meg HD installed internally  
with a cable...



definiteley a later-on upgraded Lisa. Very likely not by Apple !



Can I boot from a floppy without a keyboard and mouse???

Yes, of course; no problem. But then you can't do some further  
tests - without mouse or keyboard...
To shut down the Lisa again, you will have to push the start button  
again and wait some seconds until you hear a "clack" and the screen  
will get dark.




'If' the floppy works then I can assume the Sun Rem HD, or HD  
controller card is bad. Would I be correct?


Yes, or this Sun Remarketing HD interferes with the Lite-Adapter or  
the ROM on the IO Board, as I wrote in my last email yesterday. Or  
the whole configuration consumes so much power, that your (still  
built in) 1.2 A power supply isn't able to feed :-)
Or somebody interchanged the IO Board. You cannot run every type of  
IO-Boards in a Lisa, when you want to use a HardDisk (especially  
the early Boards).




...mouse is a M0100... the same as the Mac 128/512k's mouse.  
However the connector on the back of the lisa does not look like  
the connector on the original Macs...



There were three kinds of mice available:

The first ones for Lisa (and for Apple II with Mouse Card in the  
expansion slot). Characteristic was the plastic connector which  
could be described as an rectangle with round corners and the upper  
side of the rectangle was additional 3mm spared out.
The second mouse (chronological) was the Mac 1984 mouse (later  
renamed Mac 128k). The connector is much bigger, cause it now has  
two screws with huge knobs. The Pins are the same, so it will fit  
like the first mouse.


The third mouse has a much smaller connector again, but the two  
scres remained, although they are not so big (smaller diameter)


All these three types of mice will fit in the connector-plug of a  
Lisa.
I had a Prototype of a Lisa 1, which had a connector, which only  
supports the mouse 1, cause there was this rectangle "nose" on top  
of the connector of the motherboard.




On the occasions when the power supply works, the monitor will  
occasionally shift of flicker very slightly, this movement seems  
rhythmically timed



interesting !
I never saw this before. Chaotic, yes, but predictable, cause  
rhytmically...

What time periods?

 with a quiet hissing noise from the PSU. I'm waiting for a 1.8  
amp PSU to arrive soon.



That's better, in deed !

Greetings TOM from bavaria, the center of europe, the country of  
the alps, the marvellous castles of Koenig Ludwig and the original  
Oktoberfest


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Re: Question about 1 vs 2

[Philip Lord]

Thanks for everyones replies. I now have a much better idea of what I  
need to try.


Like Adams Lisa, mine also has what looks like a Sun Rem  20 meg HD  
installed internally with a cable threaded through the lisa and out  
the back, then plugging into the parallel port.


When this cable is plugged in I get the error 57. When this cable is  
unplugged I don't get the error, and the lisa continues on until the  
'Missing keyboard prompt. (keyboard + mouse were sent later and  
should be here soon).


Can I boot from a floppy without a keyboard and mouse???

'If' the floppy works then I can assume the Sun Rem HD, or HD  
controller card is bad. Would I be correct?


Jerry mentioned that the mouse is a M0100, which from memory is the  
same as the Mac 128/512k's mouse. However the connector on the back  
of the lisa does not look like the connector on the original  
Macs...but my memory could be fading.


On the occasions when the power supply works, the monitor will  
occasionally shift of flicker very slightly, this movement seems  
rhythmically timed with a quiet hissing noise from the PSU. I'm  
waiting for a 1.8 amp PSU to arrive soon.


Thanks again...will keep you all informed as to progress.

Phil






On Oct 5, 2005, at 12:38 AM, Justaname wrote:


It has an 800K drive with a 800K rom.

It has a M0100 mouse which may not be the mouse it came with.

I can't remember the answers to the rest of the questions.  Sorry.


Jerry

On Oct 4, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Rick wrote:



If a lisa 2 had all it's internal boards (IO, Mother, CPU and RAM)
dated 1982, would it be a fair guess that this was a Lisa 1 that has
been upgraded to a Lisa 2? I have also noticed that at the back the
drive cage some small modifications (cut away some of the metal)  
have
been made  to make room for cables leading from the lisa to the  
'Lisa
Lite adaptor' board. This 'lite adaptor' board is also the only  
board

in the machine dated 1993.

It's my understanding that all Lisa's have some board dates of  
1982, and

this alone does not indicate a Lisa1 conversion.
Other Lisa 1 clues to look for may be:
1. An original Lisa mouse (with funky clip connector), later  
Lisa2's used

the mac mouse with thumbscrews.
2. Early SN# or AppleNet#
3. A gold and ceramic package CPU
4. A resistor (R47?) on the IO board



This machine has a 1.2 Amp power supply, that will stay on for a
short time, then power down. Some times it won't start at all, and
lets out a little 'cheep cheep!' noise (like a bird) when you hit  
the

power button. Has anyone had this problem before?
If it is the power-supply that is dying, can a more reliable 1.8 amp
power supply be used to replace a dying 1.2 amp version without any
modification?

Using the 1.8 P/S works well and is a popular and common upgrade  
for all

Lisa's.  It's a plug and play replacement for the 1.2amp unit.



Also, when going through it's self diagnostics, it gets an error 57
in the IO board. I have read from the 'Do it yourself' guide from  
Sun

Rem that this is a 'Disk controller' problem and may also have
something to do with the Lisa Lite card. Any ideas what I should
check first?

If the I/O card was swapped from an other unit, check the Floppy  
controller

ROM ver.  You may have the 800K ROM for a 400K drive or vice-versa.

Hope this helps,
Rick


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Question about 1 vs 2

[Philip Lord]

Hi Lisa List,
I have a couple of quick questions.

If a lisa 2 had all it's internal boards (IO, Mother, CPU and RAM)  
dated 1982, would it be a fair guess that this was a Lisa 1 that has  
been upgraded to a Lisa 2? I have also noticed that at the back the  
drive cage some small modifications (cut away some of the metal) have  
been made  to make room for cables leading from the lisa to the 'Lisa  
Lite adaptor' board. This 'lite adaptor' board is also the only board  
in the machine dated 1993.


This machine has a 1.2 Amp power supply, that will stay on for a  
short time, then power down. Some times it won't start at all, and  
lets out a little 'cheep cheep!' noise (like a bird) when you hit the  
power button. Has anyone had this problem before?
If it is the power-supply that is dying, can a more reliable 1.8 amp  
power supply be used to replace a dying 1.2 amp version without any  
modification?


Also, when going through it's self diagnostics, it gets an error 57  
in the IO board. I have read from the 'Do it yourself' guide from Sun  
Rem that this is a 'Disk controller' problem and may also have  
something to do with the Lisa Lite card. Any ideas what I should  
check first?


Thanks in advance.
I know there are some crazy knowledgeable people on this list, and  
I'm hoping these questions will be easy.


Cheers

Phil

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Shipping...help!

[Philip Lord]

Has anyone shipped a Lisa out of the US country before? How did you 
ship it?


I'm trying to find the most economic way to ship from the US to Tokyo. 
Seems like the box is too big for USPS Ground.


Much thanks in advance.

Phil



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Re: Lisa on eBay.de

[Philip Lord]

very


On Sep 14, 2005, at 4:12 PM, Mike wrote:


Wow that seems like a high starting price !


Nord, Al wrote:


If a Euro is valued today at 1.23 then $1204.17 is the stsrting price
-Original Message-
From: LisaList [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
macmoni

Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:13 PM
To: LisaList
Subject: Re: Lisa on eBay.de

Hi all,

well, according to some questions about the seller of this Lisa:
Yes, I'm the seller. "TOM from Bavaria, the center of europe..."

Although I think this Lisa-List is not the place for advertizing, I 
have
to tell those facts, due to too many emails with the same questions 
from

members of the Lisa-List, since the article below was posted to the
list:
 The Lisa is in complete working order
 Shipping worldwide is no problem (from 32.- up 82.- EUR look:  
www.deutschepost.de)
 Yes the external Profile ebay #5806489388 will work with the Lisa, 
too


Sorry, for that not really related notes in the Lisa-List; but I have
dozends of emails on my account after this following article was 
posted





Am 10.09.2005 um 08:38 schrieb Stuart Bell:

Begin forwarded message:

... There is a Lisa  for sale on eBay.de, starting bid 979 Euros, 
with ...
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
ViewItem&category=19520&item=5239663238









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Re: Lisa on eBay.de

[Philip Lord]

Saw that...I'm trying to get this junker...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
ViewItem&item=5239282241&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1



Please don't tell the masses. ;-)


Phil



On Sep 13, 2005, at 5:48 AM, Nord, Al wrote:


If a Euro is valued today at 1.23 then $1204.17 is the stsrting price

-Original Message-
From: LisaList [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of  
macmoni

Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:13 PM
To: LisaList
Subject: Re: Lisa on eBay.de

Hi all,

well, according to some questions about the seller of this Lisa:
Yes, I'm the seller. "TOM from Bavaria, the center of europe..."

Although I think this Lisa-List is not the place for advertizing, I  
have
to tell those facts, due to too many emails with the same questions  
from

members of the Lisa-List, since the article below was posted to the
list:
  The Lisa is in complete working order
  Shipping worldwide is no problem (from 32.- up 82.- EUR look:
www.deutschepost.de)
  Yes the external Profile ebay #5806489388 will work with the Lisa,  
too


Sorry, for that not really related notes in the Lisa-List; but I have
dozends of emails on my account after this following article was posted



Am 10.09.2005 um 08:38 schrieb Stuart Bell:

Begin forwarded message:

... There is a Lisa  for sale on eBay.de, starting bid 979 Euros,
with ...
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=19520&item=5239663238



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Re: WTB: Lisa 2 Motherboard or XL card cage

[Philip Lord]

Oops,
wasn't supposed to send that to the list.

Apologies.

Phil



On Aug 27, 2005, at 2:02 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


Hi Jerry,
Been trying to track down a motherboard (or XL cardcage). No luck yet.
I have a number of leads though which I need to follow up.

However I wanted to tell you that one of my searches led me to a  
guy in New Zealand (My home country) who has an original apple Lisa  
I for sale


He doesn't know how much he wants for it. I told him that they are  
very rare, but he seems to already have a grasp on how rare they  
are as he used to work for an apple distributor in Auckland (NZ),  
he's going to see how much he wants to sell it foranyway,  
enough dreaming...


Hows the troubled work projects going? Good I hope.

Phil

On Aug 24, 2005, at 6:42 AM, Justaname wrote:


Still here.  I have a project in trouble and am having trouble  
breaking away to get the numbers.


Please be patient as it won't be too long.


Jerry


On Aug 21, 2005, at 11:57 PM, Philip Lord wrote:



Hi, I'm looking for either a Lisa 2 motherboard (the one with the  
parallel port) or a MacXL card cage.


Would anyone have one or either of these items?

Thanks

Phil


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Re: WTB: Lisa 2 Motherboard or XL card cage

[Philip Lord]

Hi Jerry,
Been trying to track down a motherboard (or XL cardcage). No luck yet.
I have a number of leads though which I need to follow up.

However I wanted to tell you that one of my searches led me to a guy  
in New Zealand (My home country) who has an original apple Lisa I for  
sale


He doesn't know how much he wants for it. I told him that they are  
very rare, but he seems to already have a grasp on how rare they are  
as he used to work for an apple distributor in Auckland (NZ), he's  
going to see how much he wants to sell it foranyway, enough  
dreaming...


Hows the troubled work projects going? Good I hope.

Phil

On Aug 24, 2005, at 6:42 AM, Justaname wrote:

Still here.  I have a project in trouble and am having trouble  
breaking away to get the numbers.


Please be patient as it won't be too long.


Jerry


On Aug 21, 2005, at 11:57 PM, Philip Lord wrote:


Hi, I'm looking for either a Lisa 2 motherboard (the one with the  
parallel port) or a MacXL card cage.


Would anyone have one or either of these items?

Thanks

Phil


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I/O board compatibility?

[Philip Lord]

I read in the Sun Remarketing 'do it yourself guide' that Lisa I/O  
cards will not work in a XL. My question is, what is it about an XL  
that makes it an XL, and what is it about a Lisa that makes it a  
lisa? is it the Motherboard?


For example: if I had a lisa 2 upgraded to a XL (new roms for 800k  
floppy, and widget drive) that has a dead original lisa 2 motherboard  
(parallel port version), and I'm replacing the dead motherboard and  
card cage with a motherboard and card cage from an XL (no Parallel  
port version), will the original lisa I/O card still work or do I  
have to change that too?


Thanks in advance.

Phil



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Re: WTB: Lisa 2 Motherboard or XL card cage

[Philip Lord]

No hurry, just when you have time.

Phil


On Aug 24, 2005, at 6:42 AM, Justaname wrote:

Still here.  I have a project in trouble and am having trouble 
breaking away to get the numbers.


Please be patient as it won't be too long.


Jerry


On Aug 21, 2005, at 11:57 PM, Philip Lord wrote:

Hi, I'm looking for either a Lisa 2 motherboard (the one with the 
parallel port) or a MacXL card cage.


Would anyone have one or either of these items?

Thanks

Phil


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WTB: Lisa 2 Motherboard or XL card cage

[Philip Lord]

Hi, I'm looking for either a Lisa 2 motherboard (the one with the 
parallel port) or a MacXL card cage.


Would anyone have one or either of these items?

Thanks

Phil


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WTB: Mac XL or late model LISA (non working unit is ok)

[Philip Lord]

Actually any LISA is fine. I'm just thinking I may be able to get a  
late model cheaper.
Anyone got a spare they don't need. A non working unit is ok as  
It's going to become my latest (long term) fixer-upper project.


Please email me.

Cheers
Phil


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