[REBOL] Dialecting Tutorial
Hi Where can I find some online dialecting tutorial? Thanks in advance, Behrang __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- To unsubscribe from this list, just send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the subject.
[REBOL] Dialecting, higher-level gadget components, and complex stuff ...
Hello list, most discussions currently running on our list is dedicated to some concrete stuff, but as I saw "associative array thread" and tried to implement some stuff at my work, it led mi to think about following general questions: 1) I wanted to have some list of person's tasks on main screen, together with some add button, and pressing an item would open another screen, with another list with concrete tasks of appropriate person, e.g.: pekr mark boss pekr- --- report1 definition --- report2 definition etc. Once you press your "Add" button, you can easily add new person. But - you just extended your 'persons block which you have still present in memory. Once you start thinking about data storage, data organisation style arises. Would you prefer: ["pekr" "mark" "boss"], ["report1" "report2"] kind of organisation or just ["pekr" ["report1" "report2"] "mark" [] "boss" []] nested one? or would you use objects as Elan does in his book? In any case, you have to bear in mind you have to navigate thru data structure, and it would be good to be able to write/append to file or remove from it (while staying synchronised with memory content), as writing/saving whole stuff to file after changing one item could turn into being a little bit inefficient. Perhaps a little dbms system is way to go?. OK, let's think about another issues. What about small app in REBOL? The first aproach - comfort one, - is to use what system offers and is easily maintainable. So instead of building some custom design, use just button navigation system. But what happens if someone wants to have typical menu? OK, we've got 'choose function. If you will look at the current panel demo though, you will notice it's lookfeel is not conformant to the whole design (although there seem to be some possibility to influence style thru parameter sent to function) of panel. The function also doesn't seem to handle block as sub-menu, but displays each item of block as item of given menu. Note: I come from XBase environment, where I succesfully used RAD tool for app building. It made me king here. On the other hand, it generated lot of code and I was forced to use some rules for my app logic. It was OK untill someone asked me to do something another way. As times went by and we switched to Windows Visual Objects, we decided to build "larger" system, and refused to follow tool logic. So we started to define own app logic, functions, objects, and what do we use for each new app from the tool level logic? Just a few lines with general App:Start() etc. stuff :-) RT just started to introduce higher level gadgets to /View. We have pop-ups, we have 'inform dialog windows, we have also calendar and color selector, each with closed look feel. We will also get file managers soon. I know someone can admit - hey pekr, use what's there and don't care. But I am used to think about app as one mental body :-) I am just currently not able to see, if current combination of REBOL capabilities (VID itself, styles, dialecting) allows us to really easily change/swap lookfeel of component in any consistant way? REBOL's cool, we can morph function body, we can swap feelings for face-styles and that's the way I like it. Maybe that's why I prefer separate blocks, but looking at 'dispatch e.g. shows opposite technique of nested information is being used. If something is nested and reduced, is it easily replaceable as it would be using reference? Do you remember slideshow-dialect? OK, it was great, wasn't it? What about introducing domain (higher-level gadget) specific dialects? Eg. main-menu: menu-layout [ styles funky-menu main "File" sub "Edit" sub "View" sub "Help" [view-about] sub "File" "Open" icon1 "printer setup" icon2 checked sub ] etc. Or just block with actions could exist separately, or ... What I am still not too much comfort with is we don't use scaling or other mechanisms to make REBOL/View experience more pleasant to user. Rebodex or layout demo is more than 600 pixels high. We know certain resolution, right? Wouldn't it be good to have some switch for 'view e.g. telling if /View engine should put scrollers automatically into layout if the resulting window crosses margins of screen? Anyone? PS: Bear in mind I am in no way criticizing anything, just asking about possibilities :-) -pekr-
[REBOL] Dialecting Re:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How is dialecting different from defining a new word in Forth? How does this make REBOL better than any language which allows you to define new words? You will appreciate the difference when REBOL/Core 2.3 will be released. You not only can redefine words, you can create your own language. Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Amigan - REBOL programmer Amiga Group Italia sez. L'Aquila -- http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/
[REBOL] Dialecting Re:(2)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How is dialecting different from defining a new word in Forth? How does this make REBOL better than any language which allows you to define new words? And Elan replied: Dialecting goes beyond just extending REBOL's vocabulary. It permits you to also define your own syntactic structures (i.e. language grammar). How does this make REBOL better than any language which allows you to define new words? Some differences between REBOL and languages that allow you to define new words: 1. There are now holy cows, i.e. keywords. REBOL allows you to define new words as well as any word from REBOL's existing vocabulary to be anything you want. For example, I can (and do) define 'head to mean the head section of a HTML dialect, whereas in REBOL it normally means return the head of a series. 2. Using REBOL's dialecting support, you can also define new syntactic structures. For example, replacing loop constructs which normally return the results of a block as an item to instead return items in a block ready to be joined. Very handy for making tables in HTML. 3. Using contexts you can precisely control under what circumstances your new word definitions/syntactic structures become affective, without impacting REBOL's default vocabulary and behaviour. For example: print HTML/Dialect [ ; dialect code here head [Title "My title"] body [] [H1 Title] ] print head "123" Note different uses of 'Title and 'head, in above REBOL code. 4. Based on contexts you can freely mix REBOL's default behaviour and any number of dialects. Or even embed many dialects in one all encompassing dialect. Example: See the CID dialect that is shipping REBOL/View beta. Hope this helps, I hope this helps! :-) Andrew Martin Inventing the future... ICQ: 26227169 http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/ --
[REBOL] Dialecting Re:
Hi, if you don't have /View, you can look at some dialects even in /Core. REBOL's default "dialect" is a functional language, but there are: 1) parse dialect 2) secure dialect 3) function arguments block dialect You can see that in these contexts words have different meaning and different order than functions and their arguments. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How is dialecting different from defining a new word in Forth? How does this make REBOL better than any language which allows you to define new words? __ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup -- Michal Kracik
[REBOL] Dialecting
How is dialecting different from defining a new word in Forth? How does this make REBOL better than any language which allows you to define new words? __ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
[REBOL] Dialecting Re:
Hi, you wrote: How is dialecting different from defining a new word in Forth? Dialecting goes beyond just extending REBOL's vocabular. It permits you to also define your own syntactic structures (i.e. language grammar). How does this make REBOL better than any language which allows you to define new words? Some differences between REBOL and languages that allow you to define new words: 1. There are now holy cows, i.e. keywords. REBOL allows you to define new words as well as any word from REBOL's existing vocabulary to be anything you want. 2. Using REBOL's dialecting support, you can also define new syntactic structures. 3. Using contexts you can precisely control under what circumstances your new word definitions/syntactic structures become affective, without impacting REBOL's default vocabulary and behavior. 4. Based on contexts you can freely mix REBOL's default behavior and any number of dialects. Example: See the CID dialect that is shipping REBOL/View beta Hope this helps, ;- Elan [: - )]
[REBOL] AW: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:(3)
Hello there, Andrew
I am interested in the dialect you have written and I have downloaded it.
I think I need Nest.r
do %html.r
Script: "HTML" (24-Oct-1999)
** Script Error: Include has no value.
** Where: Include %Nest.r
NumericEntity: func [Number [integer!] /NoSemicolon]
I did not find it at the rebol.org archive. Please post that also.
Regards
Nitish
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.loka.net/
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2000 20:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[REBOL] AW: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:(2)
Jean wrote:
So if I use a block within a block I need reduce to tell rebol to evaluate
the embedded block.
But why do I need rejoin in this case ?
join "HTML" [reduce block1 "/HTML"]
also worked as I tried it.
Theoretically,
rejoin ["HTML" block1 "/HTML"]
should work,too. The Rebol doc says:
Rejoin: Reduces and joins a block of values.
Unfortunately, not quite correct as you interpret. The 'rejoin reduces and
joins this block:
["HTML" block1 "/HTML"]
NOT this block:
block1
Here's a nicer way:
rejoin [
""
HTML reduce block1 /HTML
]
Note the empty string. This returns a string, and uses REBOL native tag
values.
Of course what we really, really want is:
print HTML/Dialect [
Head [
Title "HTML/Dialect Title"
]
Body [
"Body Attributes"
][
H1 Title
center "Body Contents"
Br
"Time is:" now/time
]
]
Note the use of the word 'head, the interesting uses of the word 'title,
_optional_ inclusion of tag attributes, and the inclusion of REBOL
functions/words. This version of my HTML dialect is very, very close to
completion.
Andrew Martin
REBOlutionary solutions...
ICQ: 26227169
http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/
--
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[REBOL] AW: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:(4)
Nitish wrote: I am interested in the dialect you have written... There's a complete package, incorporating Robert Muench's enhancements from this page: http://openip.org/html/ow_overview.html or directly from: http://openip.org/html/rebol_html.zip The first page has some examples which can be helpful. Caution! This is version one of my HTML dialect. Not the bleeding edge version which only runs on REBOL/View. Andrew Martin Still fiddling... ICQ: 26227169 http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/ --
[REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?!
Hi , I tried to learn th. about writing dialects. So I did the following code, to begin with. I exspected it to putput the following: HTMLHEADTITLETitel/TITLE/HEADBODYDas ist ein Text !/BODY/HTML but I got an error msg of type: stack overflow , though I had increased stack to 3.000.000 Bytes. Here's my program: REBOL [] ;definition part html: func [block1] [join "HTML" [block1 "/HTML"]] head: func [block2] [join "HEAD" [block2 "/HEAD"]] body: func [block3] [join "BODY" [block3 "/BODY"]] title: func [block4] [join "TITLE" [block4 "/TITLE"]] ;test part a: html [ head [ title "Titel" ] body [ "Das ist ein Text !" ] ] print a myhtml.r myhtml.r
[REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:
'head is also the name of word used a lot by REBOL. Have a look at the source for 'append, and you will see why. If you have a look at my %HTML.r script on http://www.rebol.org, or from http://openip.org, you'll see my early approach to writing a HTML dialect, using a similar method. Andrew Martin Who's up bright and early downloading the Windows Platform SDK. It's only taken all night so far! :-) ICQ: 26227169 http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/ -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 16 February 2000 4:46 AM Subject: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Hi , I tried to learn about writing dialects. So I did the following code, to begin with. I expected it to output the following: HTMLHEADTITLETitel/TITLE/HEADBODYDas ist ein Text !/BODY/HTML but I got an error msg of type: stack overflow, though I had increased stack to 3.000.000 Bytes. Here's my program: REBOL [] ;definition part html: func [block1] [join "HTML" [block1 "/HTML"]] head: func [block2] [join "HEAD" [block2 "/HEAD"]] body: func [block3] [join "BODY" [block3 "/BODY"]] title: func [block4] [join "TITLE" [block4 "/TITLE"]] ;test part a: html [ head [ title "Titel" ] body [ "Das ist ein Text !" ] ] print a myhtml.r
[REBOL] AW: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet am: Dienstag, 15. Februar 2000 17:15 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re: 'head is also the name of word used a lot by REBOL. Have a look at the source for 'append, and you will see why. using a reserved word is not a good idea, right ?! Thanks, Jean
[REBOL] AW: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Gesendet am: Dienstag, 15. Februar 2000 19:41 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re: Hi Jean, that's a funny one. join uses append. append uses the REBOL functio head to return the series it appended to at its head. You redefine head to be head: func [block2] [join "HEAD" [block2 "/HEAD"]] So, what happens is whenever join is called within your functions, eventually head is called (the intention is to call REBOL's predefined head!) and instead of REBOL's head function your head function is called, which in turn does a join, which leads to calling head ... and you have happily constructed an infinite loop. :-) If you rename head to something else: html-head then you script runs (with problems), producing do %myhtml.r Script: "Untitled" (none) HTMLhtml-head title Titel body Das ist ein Text !/HTML Note that the next problem you encounter is that you get title Titel instead of your intended TITLE/TITLE and you get body Das ... instead of your intended BODY.../BODY. The reason you get this is that you pass the block [title "Titel"] etc. and therefore title is not reduced. You need to use rejoin in your functions and - because the block you are passing to html consists of two embedded blocks, the html-head block and the body block - you need to use an additional reduce in addition to rejoin. Now the thing returns: do %myhtml.r Script: "Untitled" (none) HTMLHEADtitle Titel/HEAD BODYDas ist ein Text !/BODY/HTML and the complete, slightly modified code is: REBOL [] ;definition part html: func [block1 ] [rejoin ["HTML" reduce block1 "/HTML"]] html-head: func [block2] [rejoin ["HEAD" block2 "/HEAD"]] body: func [block3] [rejoin ["BODY" block3 "/BODY"]] title: func [block4] [rejoin ["TITLE" block4 "/TITLE"]] ;test part a: html [ html-head [ title "Titel" ] body [ "Das ist ein Text !" ] ] print a ;- Elan [: - )] Thanks a lot. Now it works :) So if I use a block within a block I need reduce to tell rebol to evaluate the embedded block. But why do I need rejoin in this case ? join "HTML" [reduce block1 "/HTML"] also worked as I tried it. Theoretically, rejoin ["HTML" block1 "/HTML"] should work,too. The Rebol doc says: Rejoin: Reduces and joins a block of values. ciao, Jean
[REBOL] AW: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:(2)
Andrew wrote: 'head is also the name of word used a lot by REBOL. Have a look at the source for 'append, and you will see why. Jean wrote: using a reserved word is not a good idea, right ?! 'head is not reserved. It can be replaced like virtually all words in REBOL. It's just that a lot of other software relies on 'head returning the head of a series. 'head and other words with all ready defined meanings/value in REBOL, are becoming magical. Have a look at my %html.r at: http://www.rebol.org I've blazed a trail there into the HTML dialect that you're looking for. My latest work on the HTML dialect requires REBOL/View with the new parse block capability. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/ --
[REBOL] AW: [REBOL] Dialecting...Stack Overflow ?! Re:(2)
Jean wrote: So if I use a block within a block I need reduce to tell rebol to evaluate the embedded block. But why do I need rejoin in this case ? join "HTML" [reduce block1 "/HTML"] also worked as I tried it. Theoretically, rejoin ["HTML" block1 "/HTML"] should work,too. The Rebol doc says: Rejoin: Reduces and joins a block of values. Unfortunately, not quite correct as you interpret. The 'rejoin reduces and joins this block: ["HTML" block1 "/HTML"] NOT this block: block1 Here's a nicer way: rejoin [ "" HTML reduce block1 /HTML ] Note the empty string. This returns a string, and uses REBOL native tag values. Of course what we really, really want is: print HTML/Dialect [ Head [ Title "HTML/Dialect Title" ] Body [ "Body Attributes" ][ H1 Title center "Body Contents" Br "Time is:" now/time ] ] Note the use of the word 'head, the interesting uses of the word 'title, _optional_ inclusion of tag attributes, and the inclusion of REBOL functions/words. This version of my HTML dialect is very, very close to completion. Andrew Martin REBOlutionary solutions... ICQ: 26227169 http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/ --
[REBOL] Dialecting improvement? Re:(3)
Those were the words of [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ... But as for "real" dialects, look at 'parse function, which will enable you to create own grammars, sublanguages ... Or have a look at http://www.openip.org/ into the OpenWeb section. It's about building a rebol dialect for html creation, and the only real dialect I know about. regards, Ingo -- _ ._ ingo@)|_ /| _| _ We ARE all ONE www._|_o _ _ ._ _ www./_|_) |o(_|(/_ We ARE all FREE ingo@| |(_|o(_)| (_| http://www.2b1.de/Rebol/ ._| ._|
[REBOL] Dialecting improvement? Re:
Can anyone point me to info on the whole 'dialecting' in REBOL topic? Every article I've seen touts this as a killer feature of REBOL but I haven't been able to find any significant reference or example in any of the documentation on the rebol web site. In fact, I just joined this list in the hope of catching some references to what this is all about and how to do it. Thanks. -Steve __ Reply Separator _ Subject: [REBOL] Dialecting improvement? Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at INTERNET Date:1/10/00 7:36 PM Hi, Carl Sassenrath wrote: Over the last week I've added the parse block capability necessary to make dialects easier to write, and the first GUI dialect is now up and drawing screens. when will these parse block capabilities be available? Would it be possible to show us how dialects will look like, how they are generated, handled etc.? I really would like to start using dialecting today... Robert M. Muench, Karlsruhe, Germany == ask for PGP public-key == When do you want to reboot today? Use the free portable GUI Library OpenAmulet from http://www.openip.org
[REBOL] Dialecting improvement? Re:(2)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone point me to info on the whole 'dialecting' in REBOL topic? Every article I've seen touts this as a killer feature of REBOL but I haven't been able to find any significant reference or example in any of the documentation on the rebol web site. In fact, I just joined this list in the hope of catching some references to what this is all about and how to do it. Hi Steve, you seem to be confused in the same way I was :-) As Carl said, "dialect" in computer language means special ordering of words and its values. You can find dialects in other languages too - e.g. Carl mentioned printf function of C language - it simply has special orderings of words, not being applicable anywhere else in the language. Maybe even parameters list to function could be regarded being "dialects". In REBOL you have top/global context, in which words/functions/objects are defined. Try typing 'what in your console to see their list. Once you create simple block of values, you can regard it being dialect. database: [ Petr_Krenzelok [Address "Navsi 645, 739 92" age 27 state "single"] ] it doesn't matter, if you will have 'Address defined somewhere in the global context print database/Pet_Krenzelok/state But as for "real" dialects, look at 'parse function, which will enable you to create own grammars, sublanguages -pekr- Thanks. -Steve __ Reply Separator _____ Subject: [REBOL] Dialecting improvement? Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at INTERNET Date:1/10/00 7:36 PM Hi, Carl Sassenrath wrote: Over the last week I've added the parse block capability necessary to make dialects easier to write, and the first GUI dialect is now up and drawing screens. when will these parse block capabilities be available? Would it be possible to show us how dialects will look like, how they are generated, handled etc.? I really would like to start using dialecting today... Robert M. Muench, Karlsruhe, Germany == ask for PGP public-key == When do you want to reboot today? Use the free portable GUI Library OpenAmulet from http://www.openip.org
[REBOL] Dialecting improvement?
Hi, Carl Sassenrath wrote: Over the last week I've added the parse block capability necessary to make dialects easier to write, and the first GUI dialect is now up and drawing screens. when will these parse block capabilities be available? Would it be possible to show us how dialects will look like, how they are generated, handled etc.? I really would like to start using dialecting today... Robert M. Muench, Karlsruhe, Germany == ask for PGP public-key == When do you want to reboot today? Use the free portable GUI Library OpenAmulet from http://www.openip.org
