Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Thierry Koblentz]

matt andrews wrote:
> On 30/03/06, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> matt andrews wrote:
>>> In which case I'd hide all but the currently-visible element with
>>>  CSS. Presumably you're using progressive enhancement, so the "tab"
>>> links (to show non-currently-visible elements) will do full page
>>> loads if Javascript is not enabled, so you can reveal the
>>> appropriate element with CSS on the subsequent page load (and hide
>>> the previous one).
>>
>> That's much more work though. Does it worth it? The only advantage I
>> can see is that in JS challenged UAs, only the related sub-menu
>> would be opened vs. the whole enchilada.
>
> That, and also that you don't get weird visual effects during load
> *with* a Javascript-enabled UA.

But using JS to plug the sheet, as suggested earlier, takes care of that
issue. Much less work, good result.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Keeping track of current navigation link

[Thierry Koblentz]

Richard Czeiger wrote:
> aha!
> Valid points Thierry - I can see how the subfolder issue might be a
> problem...
> It just seems a pity we have to use root relative for every link in
> the navigation...

IMO using root-relative paths is not really a big deal, but for sure we
don't need absolute paths as I used in the example in my last post ;)

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Keeping track of current navigation link

[Richard Czeiger]

aha!
Valid points Thierry - I can see how the subfolder issue might be a 
problem...
It just seems a pity we have to use root relative for every link in the 
navigation...


R

- Original Message - 
From: "Thierry Koblentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Keeping track of current navigation link



Hi Richard,


Couldn't you use somthing like this? That way you're just compareing
the last bit of the URL (the filename) with the filenames in the URL.


But consider these href values:
http://www.mydomain.com/default.asp
http://www.mydomain.com/contact/default.asp
http://www.mydomain.com/default.asp?queryString=parameter
http://www.mydomain.com/default.asp#namedAnchor

You need to make sure the script takes these values into consideration.


Note that "nav" is the ID of the  that contains my navigation
list. Alo the script belkow doesn't generate possible non-semantic
code - an  is fine if all you want to do is emphasis the link,
but why not just give it a class instead? That way you can style it
anyway you want...


If you read the article, you'll see that the script can do both depending 
on

the author's choice:
It removes the anchor and replaces it with an EM element or it applies a
class to the "current" anchor.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Shawn J. Cassick wrote:

just use the !important tag in your css to define the 0px for 
gecko engine and then use a -10px wthout the !important tag for 
ie



That's addressing the perceived symptom, not the cause.  You need 
to understand the problem fully before you can attempt to find a 
solution.


See this article to understand the real problem. 
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Images,_Tables,_and_Mysterious_Gaps



'meh, worked for me.


Well, you have just added a 'human bug' to a page.
Now, try changing font-size (which affects line-height, of course) and
see your 'human bug' appear.

Seriously: it isn't a good move to try to "fix" dynamic
rendering-problems by hiding them in a static environment. Such fixes
won't survive.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [WSG] Site Check[tacticalware.net]-mailto issue

[Christian Montoya]

On 3/29/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks,
>
> We share similar reservations. Is the following a more usable solution?
>
>  href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Chuck at tacticalware.net
>  href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Ramblin at tacticalware.net a>
>
> Or should the mailto: go altogether?

That is a more usable solution. Maybe put parentheses or brackets
around "at" so it's obvious.

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Chuck [at] tacticalware.net

I'm not sure about removing the mailto: link, I'm sure people with
client side e-mail apps would like it to stay.


--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[matt andrews]

On 30/03/06, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> matt andrews wrote:
> > In which case I'd hide all but the currently-visible element with CSS.
> >  Presumably you're using progressive enhancement, so the "tab" links
> > (to show non-currently-visible elements) will do full page loads if
> > Javascript is not enabled, so you can reveal the appropriate element
> > with CSS on the subsequent page load (and hide the previous one).
>
> That's much more work though. Does it worth it? The only advantage I can see
> is that in JS challenged UAs, only the related sub-menu would be opened vs.
> the whole enchilada.

That, and also that you don't get weird visual effects during load
*with* a Javascript-enabled UA.
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Re: [WSG] Site Check[tacticalware.net]-mailto issue

[CK]

Thanks,

We share similar reservations. Is the following a more usable solution?

 	href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Chuck at tacticalware.net
 	href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Ramblin at tacticalware.neta>


Or should the mailto: go altogether?

On Mar 29, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Christian Montoya wrote:


On 3/29/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

The following pages are up for review:

...

(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/contact.html)

...

Any insight is appreciated.


Maybe you are planning to change it, but I'll mention that contact
forms are much better than mailto: links, and even just plain text
e-mail addresses are better to. mailto: links are very annoying for us
web-based-e-mail users.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] getting an "a" - document trees

[CK]

Hi,

It is rare laughing so hard, while learning so much. This thread has  
been an enlightening side-splitter.



Thanks All,
CK (Grasshopper)
On Mar 29, 2006, at 6:03 PM, russ - maxdesign wrote:


An elegantly worded sentence on document trees:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html#doctree

Or, for those who struggled with the concept of document trees (or  
any plant

matter) there is a simpler explanation here:

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_tree.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_ancestor.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_descendant.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_parent.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_child.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_sibling.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_multiple.htm


Bowing Humbly To The Master


Dunno who this was aimed at but I ain't no master.
No pebbles in this hand to snatch!
I can't even spell, it seems  :)
Russ


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Re: [WSG] Site Check[tacticalware.net]

[Christian Montoya]

On 3/29/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The following pages are up for review:
...
> (http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/contact.html)
...
> Any insight is appreciated.

Maybe you are planning to change it, but I'll mention that contact
forms are much better than mailto: links, and even just plain text
e-mail addresses are better to. mailto: links are very annoying for us
web-based-e-mail users.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Lachlan Hunt]

CK wrote:

Would these relationships be explained in the w3C specifications?


Yes.  See the HTML, XML, SGML, CSS and DOM related specs.


what would be the best method for creating the document tree diagrams?


Drawing diagrams requires some highly specialised equipment known as 
pencil and paper.


To draw a tree diagram of an HTML document, just start with the root 
element (or any convenient parent of the section you're interested in) 
and then draw branches with one child at the end, and then repeat fo r.


e.g.

DD
 +-DT
 |  +-#text
 |
 +-DD
 |  +-A
 |+-#text
 |
 +-DT
 |  +-...
 +-...

There's even a tree diagram  showing the same kind of structure in the 
CSS 2.1 spec.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html#user-agent

Alternatively, you can use the DOM inspector in Firefox which shows that 
kind of structure for the entire document.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Thierry Koblentz]

matt andrews wrote:
> In which case I'd hide all but the currently-visible element with CSS.
>  Presumably you're using progressive enhancement, so the "tab" links
> (to show non-currently-visible elements) will do full page loads if
> Javascript is not enabled, so you can reveal the appropriate element
> with CSS on the subsequent page load (and hide the previous one).

That's much more work though. Does it worth it? The only advantage I can see
is that in JS challenged UAs, only the related sub-menu would be opened vs.
the whole enchilada.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] Keeping track of current navigation link

[Thierry Koblentz]

Hi Richard,

> Couldn't you use somthing like this? That way you're just compareing
> the last bit of the URL (the filename) with the filenames in the URL.

But consider these href values:
http://www.mydomain.com/default.asp
http://www.mydomain.com/contact/default.asp
http://www.mydomain.com/default.asp?queryString=parameter
http://www.mydomain.com/default.asp#namedAnchor

You need to make sure the script takes these values into consideration.

> Note that "nav" is the ID of the  that contains my navigation
> list. Alo the script belkow doesn't generate possible non-semantic
> code - an  is fine if all you want to do is emphasis the link,
> but why not just give it a class instead? That way you can style it
> anyway you want...

If you read the article, you'll see that the script can do both depending on
the author's choice:
It removes the anchor and replaces it with an EM element or it applies a
class to the "current" anchor.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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RE: [WSG] z index stacking prob

[Ted Drake]

I've been struggling with this, check out my blogpost for some helpful
links.
http://www.last-child.com/conflicting-z-index-in-ie6/

The answer is: there is no easy answer.

You need to set a relationship between z-index on parent/child and
subsequent parent/child elements. You may need to insert an iframe under the
first elements.

The link above will give you better resources.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:00 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] z index stacking prob

hello,
setting the zindex of the header div in this file to a higher value
than the maincontent div dosnt place it on top, why. please enlighten me

im using negative margins on the main content div  to slide it under the 
header which has
a wave shape. btw...i know wave shapes are cliche but they make clients 
happy.

it works how i want it to  in ff without any zindex applied but not in ie 
with or without zindex.


example:
http://63.134.251.189/indexw.html


#header{overflow:visible;
.
z-index:1001;
 border:1px solid green;
}



#main-content{
..
border:1px solid pink;
z-index:1;
}


thanks
kevin


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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Lea de Groot]

CK wrote:
Would these relationships be explained in the w3C specifications? If not 
what would be the best method for creating the document tree diagrams?


Personally, I would install Firefox and use the DOM Inspector - best 
thing since sliced bread!

(Under Tools, if you haven't found it yet :))

Lea
~ I was first before - nyanyanya ;)
--
Lea de Groot
Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [WSG] getting an "a" - document trees

[russ - maxdesign]

An elegantly worded sentence on document trees:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html#doctree

Or, for those who struggled with the concept of document trees (or any plant
matter) there is a simpler explanation here:

http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_tree.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_ancestor.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_descendant.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_parent.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_child.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_sibling.htm
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/document_multiple.htm

> Bowing Humbly To The Master

Dunno who this was aimed at but I ain't no master.
No pebbles in this hand to snatch!
I can't even spell, it seems  :)
Russ


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[WSG] z index stacking prob

[kvnmcwebn]

hello,
setting the zindex of the header div in this file to a higher value
than the maincontent div dosnt place it on top, why. please enlighten me

im using negative margins on the main content div  to slide it under the 
header which has
a wave shape. btw...i know wave shapes are cliche but they make clients 
happy.


it works how i want it to  in ff without any zindex applied but not in ie 
with or without zindex.



example:
http://63.134.251.189/indexw.html


#header{overflow:visible;
.
z-index:1001;
border:1px solid green;
}



#main-content{
..
border:1px solid pink;
z-index:1;
}


thanks
kevin


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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[CK]

Hi,

Both are desired, but I was being uptight about the line-height.  
Which could pass as is.


Chris
On Mar 29, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Richard Czeiger wrote:

I don't think you can get to that  in particular and ONLY that  
one without assigning it a class or ID.
PS: I hope we're talking about hitting the anchor for "Chuck" and  
only that one, yeah?


R

- Original Message - From: "Ben Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] getting an "a"


On 3/30/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

Hope I don't have cooties (an imaginary bug that as children, we
would avoid the person with) :)

The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the  
following

dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}


dt#contact is redundant. You don't need it because dt#email is like
the highlander (there can only be one).

dd a aren't children of dt#email.



Contact us
  
Tech Support Issues:
Support Options
Email:
Chuck
Ramblin'
 Telephone:
Call Tacticalware:
 Snail Mail:
Tacticalware Computer
 




--
Ben Wong
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://blog.onehero.net
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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[matt andrews]

On 30/03/06, Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ted Drake wrote:
> > Hi Thierry
> > Wouldn't it be better to have the list items display:block or
> > visibility:visible and then change that with javascript as soon as
> > the page loads?
> >
> > I struggled with this concept on my own site and never solved it. If
> > you went in this direction, would it cause the elements to dance
> > around as they went from open to close?
>
> Hi Ted,
> That's the issue with using the script to hide the elements through the
> onload event. Because "onload" is "too late". Elements are already in the
> flow when the script remove them.

In which case I'd hide all but the currently-visible element with CSS.
 Presumably you're using progressive enhancement, so the "tab" links
(to show non-currently-visible elements) will do full page loads if
Javascript is not enabled, so you can reveal the appropriate element
with CSS on the subsequent page load (and hide the previous one).
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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Nick Gleitzman]

Kevin Futter wrote:




Russ
HTML element family councillor


Of course, Russ means "family counsellor" :-)


Not if he was laying down the law...

N
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[CK]

Hi,

Would these relationships be explained in the w3C specifications? If  
not what would be the best method for creating the document tree  
diagrams?



Bowing Humbly To The Master
CK


On Mar 29, 2006, at 5:17 PM, russ - maxdesign wrote:

Best to always draw a document tree if you get stuck, then it is  
easy to see

that these two elements sit side by side.


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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Nick Gleitzman]

Well, yeah - although CKs' original post didn't make that clear. Move 
the id='email' from the  to the desired  - and if more than one 
of them needs the border, make it a class instead...


N
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

On 30 Mar 2006, at 10:22 AM, Richard Czeiger wrote:

Won't this then hit all the s in side all the s instead of just 
Chuck's ?


R

- Original Message - From: "Nick Gleitzman" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] getting an "a"




On 30 Mar 2006, at 10:01 AM, CK wrote:


dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}

Contact us
 
 Tech Support Issues:
 Support Options

 Email:
 Chuck
 Ramblin'
Telephone:
 Call Tacticalware:
Snail Mail:
 Tacticalware Computer




 is not a child of dt#email - it's a child of dl#contact. Remove 
dt#email from your rule.


N
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Thierry Koblentz]

Ted Drake wrote:
> Hi Thierry
> Wouldn't it be better to have the list items display:block or
> visibility:visible and then change that with javascript as soon as
> the page loads?
>
> I struggled with this concept on my own site and never solved it. If
> you went in this direction, would it cause the elements to dance
> around as they went from open to close?

Hi Ted,
That's the issue with using the script to hide the elements through the
onload event. Because "onload" is "too late". Elements are already in the
flow when the script remove them.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Kevin Futter]

On 30/3/06 12:17 PM, "russ - maxdesign" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> Russ
> HTML element family councillor

Of course, Russ means "family counsellor" :-)

-- 
Kevin Futter
Webmaster, St. Bernard's College
http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/



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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[CK]

Hi,

So given that fact to get to the desired  I should use:
dl#contact dd.email a { margin: 0 0 -2em 0; border:1px solid black}

...
Chuck
   Ramblin'
.


On Mar 29, 2006, at 4:07 PM, Lea de Groot wrote:


CK wrote:

dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}


I know that one!
dd is a sibling of dt, not a child, so try:
dl#contact dd a {border: 1px solid black}

:)
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Brisbane Australia
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sibling rivalry: was-RE: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Ted Drake]

Of course, you dould try 
dl#contact dt#email + dd a {border:1px solid black;}

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/articles/webrev/27a.html 

-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:17 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

> The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the following
> dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}
> 

That is an incorrect path. The  does not sit inside the . Instead,
the  and the  are siblings that share the same parent - the 
(who I have heard is a very poor parent and doesn't look after his children
well at all!).

The correct path would be:
dl#contact dd a {border: 1px solid black}

Best to always draw a document tree if you get stuck, then it is easy to see
that these two elements sit side by side.

If you want to target the  element inside a specific , then you'd
have to add another class or id.

HTH

Russ
HTML element family councillor



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Re: [WSG] Site Check[tacticalware.net]

[Shawn J. Cassick]

CK wrote:

Hi,

The following pages are up for review:

(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/index.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/about.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/contact.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/mailing.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/support.html)

Any insight is appreciated.


Return True,




CK
Principal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep
www.bushidodeep.com
___
"An ideal is merely the projection,
on an enormously enlarged scale,
of some aspect of personality."
 -- Aldus Huxley


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nice work, i would say.
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Shawn J. Cassick]

Lachlan Hunt wrote:

Shawn J. Cassick wrote:

Webmaster wrote:

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/


the problem is the gecko engine renders it fine.  ie's engine auto 
matically puts a 10px margin or so on the top,


No, Gecko only does that in Quirks mode and it's not margin at all, 
it's related to the line-height.


just use the !important tag in your css to define the 0px for gecko 
engine

and then use a -10px wthout the !important tag for ie


That's addressing the perceived symptom, not the cause.  You need to 
understand the problem fully before you can attempt to find a solution.


See this article to understand the real problem.
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Images,_Tables,_and_Mysterious_Gaps


'meh, worked for me.
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RE: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Ted Drake]

The dd is a child of the dl, not the dt.
Simply remove the dt

-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of CK
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:02 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] getting an "a"

Hi,

Hope I don't have cooties (an imaginary bug that as children, we  
would avoid the person with) :)

The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the following
dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}

Contact us
  
Tech Support Issues:
Support Options
Email:
Chuck
Ramblin'
 Telephone:
Call Tacticalware:
 Snail Mail:
Tacticalware Computer
 

What have I missed in drilling down to the 
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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[russ - maxdesign]

> The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the following
> dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}
> 

That is an incorrect path. The  does not sit inside the . Instead,
the  and the  are siblings that share the same parent - the 
(who I have heard is a very poor parent and doesn't look after his children
well at all!).

The correct path would be:
dl#contact dd a {border: 1px solid black}

Best to always draw a document tree if you get stuck, then it is easy to see
that these two elements sit side by side.

If you want to target the  element inside a specific , then you'd
have to add another class or id.

HTH

Russ
HTML element family councillor



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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Richard Czeiger]

I don't think you can get to that  in particular and ONLY that one 
without assigning it a class or ID.
PS: I hope we're talking about hitting the anchor for "Chuck" and only that 
one, yeah?


R

- Original Message - 
From: "Ben Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] getting an "a"


On 3/30/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

Hope I don't have cooties (an imaginary bug that as children, we
would avoid the person with) :)

The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the following
dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}


dt#contact is redundant. You don't need it because dt#email is like
the highlander (there can only be one).

dd a aren't children of dt#email.



Contact us
  
Tech Support Issues:
Support Options
Email:
Chuck
Ramblin'
 Telephone:
Call Tacticalware:
 Snail Mail:
Tacticalware Computer
 




--
Ben Wong
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://blog.onehero.net
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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Nick Gleitzman]

On 30 Mar 2006, at 10:01 AM, CK wrote:


dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}

Contact us
 
Tech Support Issues:
 	Support Options

Email:
Chuck
Ramblin'
Telephone:
Call Tacticalware:
Snail Mail:
Tacticalware Computer




 is not a child of dt#email - it's a child of dl#contact. Remove 
dt#email from your rule.


N
___
Omnivision. Websight.
http://www.omnivision.com.au/

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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Ben Wong]

On 3/30/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Hope I don't have cooties (an imaginary bug that as children, we
> would avoid the person with) :)
>
> The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the following
> dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}

dt#contact is redundant. You don't need it because dt#email is like
the highlander (there can only be one).

dd a aren't children of dt#email.

>
> Contact us
>   
> Tech Support Issues:
> Support Options
> Email:
> Chuck
> Ramblin'
>  Telephone:
> Call Tacticalware:
>  Snail Mail:
> Tacticalware Computer
>  
>


--
Ben Wong
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://blog.onehero.net
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Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Hopkins Programming]

Perhaps the dl#contact is not needed?On 3/29/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,Hope I don't have cooties (an imaginary bug that as children, wewould avoid the person with) :)The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the followingdl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}
Contact us  Tech Support Issues:Support OptionsEmail: Telephone:Call Tacticalware: Snail Mail:Tacticalware Computer
 What have I missed in drilling down to the **The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
-- =="The best way to predict the future is to invent it."  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net

Re: [WSG] getting an "a"

[Lea de Groot]

CK wrote:

dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}


I know that one!
dd is a sibling of dt, not a child, so try:
dl#contact dd a {border: 1px solid black}

:)
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Brisbane Australia
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[WSG] getting an "a"

[CK]

Hi,

Hope I don't have cooties (an imaginary bug that as children, we  
would avoid the person with) :)


The following rule has failed to reach the desired  in the following
dl#contact dt#email dd a {border: 1px solid black}

Contact us
 
Tech Support Issues:
 	Support Options

Email:
Chuck
Ramblin'
Telephone:
Call Tacticalware:
Snail Mail:
Tacticalware Computer


What have I missed in drilling down to the 
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Re: [WSG] text/html and application/xhtml+xml

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Lachlan Hunt wrote:


You forgot two other UAs that don't support XHTML: Google and Lynx!


Looks like Lynx now has "some kind of" support for XHTML...


Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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RE: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Ted Drake]

Hi Thierry
Wouldn't it be better to have the list items display:block or
visibility:visible and then change that with javascript as soon as the page
loads?

I struggled with this concept on my own site and never solved it. If you
went in this direction, would it cause the elements to dance around as they
went from open to close?

Thanks
Ted


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:48 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

Paul Novitski wrote:
> At 12:52 PM 3/29/2006, CK wrote:
>> While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS
>> was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any
>> advantage does this method offer. It was my humble observation, that
>> this could invite failure if JS was disabled, but using  or
>> @import would still "serve" the CSS.
> 
> 
> In addition to it failing if javascript is disabled or not supported,

Sometimes, that's the all point.
I use this technique a lot. Let's say you're hiding sub-level list items
through the stylesheet and use javascript to open/close them (typical menu
stuff). With JS off, that menu would not be accessible at all. IMHO, using
JS to plug the rule that hides the nested ULs is a better solution; when
that sheet doesn't load, all the list items show up.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Lachlan Hunt]

Shawn J. Cassick wrote:

Webmaster wrote:

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/


the problem is the gecko engine renders it fine.  ie's engine auto 
matically puts a 10px margin or so on the top,


No, Gecko only does that in Quirks mode and it's not margin at all, it's 
related to the line-height.



just use the !important tag in your css to define the 0px for gecko engine
and then use a -10px wthout the !important tag for ie


That's addressing the perceived symptom, not the cause.  You need to 
understand the problem fully before you can attempt to find a solution.


See this article to understand the real problem.
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Images,_Tables,_and_Mysterious_Gaps

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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[WSG] Site Check[tacticalware.net]

[CK]

Hi,

The following pages are up for review:

(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/index.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/about.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/contact.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/mailing.html)
(http://working.bushidodeep.com/tacticalware/support.html)

Any insight is appreciated.


Return True,




CK
Principal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep
www.bushidodeep.com
___
"An ideal is merely the projection,
on an enormously enlarged scale,
of some aspect of personality."
 -- Aldus Huxley


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Re: *****SPAM***** [WSG] Keeping track of current navigation link

[Richard Czeiger]

Hi Thierry,

Couldn't you use somthing like this? That way you're just compareing the 
last bit of the URL (the filename) with the filenames in the URL. Note that 
"nav" is the ID of the  that contains my navigation list. Alo the 
script belkow doesn't generate possible non-semantic code - an  is fine 
if all you want to do is emphasis the link, but why not just give it a class 
instead? That way you can style it anyway you want...


function getCurrentPageLink() {
   thisPage = location.href.substring((location.href.lastIndexOf("/"))+1);
   if (document.getElementById("nav")) {
   navElements=document.getElementById("nav");
   navAnchors=navElements.getElementsByTagName("a");
   for( var i = 0; i < navAnchors.length; i++ ) {
   whichPage = 
navAnchors[i].href.substring((navAnchors[i].href.lastIndexOf("/"))+1);

   if (whichPage == thisPage) {
   navAnchors[i].className = 'currentNav';
   }
   }
   }
}

Call this function onload using whatever method you prefer...
I'm using this as I have multiple scripts that require onload:

// Multiple Onload Functions to be called
function multipleOnload() {
   getCurrentPageLink();
   otherFunction1();
   otherFunction2();
}
window.onload = multipleOnload;


Maybe the stylesheet would show the current link like this:

a.currentNav { font-weight: bold; color: #FF; }


Here's a test page that might explain it better.
www.grafx.com.au/dik/siteInformation.html

Hope this makes sense  :o)

R

- Original Message - 
From: "Thierry Koblentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:38 AM
Subject: *SPAM* [WSG] Keeping track of current navigation link



"How to use the DOM to differentiate navigation links depending on the
document which hosts them".

This solution does not need any hooks besides an ID for the menu (or the 
ID

of any parent element, for that matter).

http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/navigation_links_and_current_location.asp

I'd appreciate any feedback that would help me improve this solution.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


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Re: [WSG] text/html and application/xhtml+xml

[Rimantas Liubertas]

> Not to contradict, because this is true, but to make things a bit more 
> complicated.
>
> Firefox rendering of XHTML is sometimes faster even though it is not
> incremental.

Well, imagine, the same huge document in XHTML: rendering takes 9 seconds,
you must wait them all to see something,  and in HTML: rendering takes
12seconds,
but you see _something_ from the very first second.

Which case would be _perceived_ as faster? Which would be preferable?

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Shawn J. Cassick]

Webmaster wrote:

Chris Littell wrote:



Use margin-top: 0px;

Should do the trick. 



Hello,

Sorry, that did not solve the issue (for me, on my machine).

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/

This is really bugging me.  I have other CSS pages that don't have 
this issue.


Thanks,
Roger
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the problem is the gecko engine renders it fine.  ie's engine auto 
matically puts a 10px margin or so on the top, just use the !important 
tag in your css to define the 0px for gecko engine and then use a -10px 
wthout the !important tag for ie (ie's engine ignores the !important tag 
in css).  and that should do the trick for yah, at least it does for me.

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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Thierry Koblentz]

Paul Novitski wrote:
> At 12:52 PM 3/29/2006, CK wrote:
>> While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS
>> was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any
>> advantage does this method offer. It was my humble observation, that
>> this could invite failure if JS was disabled, but using  or
>> @import would still "serve" the CSS.
> 
> 
> In addition to it failing if javascript is disabled or not supported,

Sometimes, that's the all point.
I use this technique a lot. Let's say you're hiding sub-level list items
through the stylesheet and use javascript to open/close them (typical menu
stuff). With JS off, that menu would not be accessible at all. IMHO, using
JS to plug the rule that hides the nested ULs is a better solution; when
that sheet doesn't load, all the list items show up.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] text/html and application/xhtml+xml

[Lachlan Hunt]

Keryx webb wrote:

What is the main forces keeping as back at HTML 4.01?
1. MSIE.
2. MSIE.
3. MSIE.


You forgot two other UAs that don't support XHTML: Google and Lynx!

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Lachlan Hunt]

Webmaster wrote:

Lachlan Hunt wrote:

Webmaster wrote:

Here's a link to the page:
http://www.gypsydev.us/css/




That DOCTYPE triggers Quirks mode.  *Never* use a DOCTYPE that 
triggers quirks mode ...  use Strict:


http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd";>


This did not solve the issue.

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/index4.html


Perhaps not, but it did reveal that you were be relying on the 
non-standard, undefined, quirky behaviour of quirks mode to get the page 
to render as intended, because that page doesn't in FF.


You should always work with a DOCTYPE that triggers standards mode and 
then attempt to solve the problem properly.  Luckily, the solution you 
already found in index3.html will in fact work in standards mode; just 
fix up the DOCTYPE.


--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/
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[WSG Announce] CSS & Javascript workshops tickets on sale - win an iPod Nano!

[russ - maxdesign]

This is a one-way list for WSG Announcements



Tickets are now on sale for the "CSS & Javascript workshop - foundations of
the new web"
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/workshop-javascript2006/

Some incentive to book tickets early:

1. Buy your ticket before April 10 and be in the running to win a 1GB iPod
Nano valued at $219.

2. A signed copy of "The JavaScript Anthology" and "Teach yourself CSS in 10
Minutes" will be given to the first person who buys tickets at each venue.

No free set of steak knives unfortunately...
Thanks
Russ




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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working SOLVED!

[Webmaster]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:


Webmaster wrote:


http://www.gypsydev.us/css/

All I'm trying to do is get the image to be exactly along the top.



Images defaults to 'display: inline' in IE/win - regardless of mode.

Solution...

.check img {display: block;}

...should solve all positioning-problems.

regards
Georg


Hello,

This solved my issue!!!

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/index3.html

Thanks,
Roger
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Webmaster]

Lachlan Hunt wrote:


Webmaster wrote:


Here's a link to the page:
http://www.gypsydev.us/css/





That DOCTYPE triggers Quirks mode.  *Never* use a DOCTYPE that 
triggers quirks mode (unless you really know what you're doing and 
have made a concious decision to do so).  Also, you should not be 
using a Transitional DTD these days, use Strict:


http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd";>


Hello,

Thank you for the information.

This did not solve the issue.

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/index4.html

Thanks,
Roger
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Re: [WSG] text/html and application/xhtml+xml

[Christian Montoya]

On 3/29/06, Keryx webb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What is the main forces keeping as back at HTML 4.01?
> 1. MSIE.
> 2. MSIE.
> 3. MSIE.
> 4. JavaScript (AJAX). The three main books about DOM-scripting all use HTML
> 4.01.[2] QED.

I want to add to that list:

5. Very few ways to ensure that validation is not broken in
text/wysiwyg editors and cms's, other than preventing invalid code
from being added entirely, much like what happens at
http://annevankesteren.nl when you try to add a malformed comment
(imagine one of your clients trying to make a comment there... then
imagine trying to teach them to update a page on the xhtml site you
just gave them).

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Christian Montoya]

On 3/29/06, CK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Upon closer inspection, it was used to serve alternate styles based
> upon browser window sizes.

That's pretty bad. :( I'm sure others on the list can pose better
methods. I can suggest one: Use a liquid layout with defined min and
max width, and use JS for IE 6 to respect those values.

Or you could do what's going on at http://www.huddletogether.com ,
which doesn't rely on JS at all.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [WSG] text/html and application/xhtml+xml

[Keryx webb]

Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Another problem with */*+xml is that Firefox cannot incrementally render 
such documents.  That is considered a bug, there's no reason why XML 
can't be incrementally rendered (beyond FF's implementation details) but 
it is a real-world limitation that needs to be taken into consideration, 
at least for the time being.


Not to contradict, because this is true, but to make things a bit more 
complicated.

Firefox rendering of XHTML is sometimes faster even though it is not 
incremental. I remember reading this from Henri Sivonen, who is in charge of bug 
18333[1], a while ago, but can't conjure up the link. The engine as such is 
faster and if the document is small there will be better performance compared to 
text/html. If the doc is *large* though, there will be a wait until it's fully 
loaded.


Henri says on Bugzilla that he *will work* on this one in June. The fact that 
the bug has been open since 1999 is scary, though.


As for what one should teach students. XHTML has few dramatic benefits today, 
but isn't school supposed to prepare you for tomorrow?


What will be the killer feature that will drive the web towards XHTML? My 
suggestions:

1. href on all tags.
2. SVG
3. UAs on mobile devices.

What is the main forces keeping as back at HTML 4.01?
1. MSIE.
2. MSIE.
3. MSIE.
4. JavaScript (AJAX). The three main books about DOM-scripting all use HTML 
4.01.[2] QED.



Lars Gunther


[1]
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18333
[2]
These would be: DHTML Utopia, DOM Scripting and The JavaScript Anthology

This dialogue contains some remarks by Henri S:
http://annevankesteren.nl/2006/02/xhtml5
Who has also written this:
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/faq.html#accept

One might read this for it's informational value:
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-ffox15.html

And this from digg: For fun!
http://www.khmerang.com/index.php?p=106

And finally this link is about inline SVG:
http://wiki.svg.org/Inline_SVG
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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[CK]

Hi,

Upon closer inspection, it was used to serve alternate styles based  
upon browser window sizes.



CK
On Mar 29, 2006, at 1:16 PM, Ted Drake wrote:

I'm not sure what you were looking at, but it could have been a  
style-sheet
switcher. This allows you to serve a standard css file and then  
over-ride it

with an optional style sheet by changing the title of the css.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Behalf Of CK
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

Hi,

While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS
was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any
advantage does this method offer. It was my humble observation, that
this could invite failure if JS was disabled, but using  or
@import would still "serve" the CSS.






Return True,




CK
Principal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep
http://bushidodeep.com/
__
"Knowing is not enough, you must apply;
 willing is not enough, you must do."
  ---Bruce Lee


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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Lachlan Hunt]

Webmaster wrote:

Here's a link to the page:
http://www.gypsydev.us/css/




That DOCTYPE triggers Quirks mode.  *Never* use a DOCTYPE that triggers 
quirks mode (unless you really know what you're doing and have made a 
concious decision to do so).  Also, you should not be using a 
Transitional DTD these days, use Strict:


http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd";>

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/

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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Paul Novitski]

At 12:52 PM 3/29/2006, CK wrote:

While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS
was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any
advantage does this method offer. It was my humble observation, that
this could invite failure if JS was disabled, but using  or
@import would still "serve" the CSS.



In addition to it failing if javascript is disabled or not supported, 
it's incompatible with XHTML (should you go there).


What's the purpose of the logic?  If it's intended to serve different 
CSS to different browsers, then it's probably basing its decision on 
HTTP-Referer-sniffing which is arguably less reliable than basing the 
same kind of decision on browser capabilities.  You might be able to 
accomplish the same end more reliably by using one of the 
browser-specific rules listed here:

http://www.dithered.com/css_filters/css_only/

Paul 


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Re: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

CK wrote:


While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS
was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any
advantage does this method offer.


Might have been a 'Netscape 4' filtered link...?

Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Webmaster wrote:

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/

All I'm trying to do is get the image to be exactly along the top.


Images defaults to 'display: inline' in IE/win - regardless of mode.

Solution...

.check img {display: block;}

...should solve all positioning-problems.

regards
Georg
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Kenny Graham]

It's rendering in quirks mode, that might be causing it.
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Brian Cummiskey]

Well, there's one more:

html, body, img { padding: 0; margin: 0; }

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RE: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

[Ted Drake]

I'm not sure what you were looking at, but it could have been a style-sheet
switcher. This allows you to serve a standard css file and then over-ride it
with an optional style sheet by changing the title of the css.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of CK
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:52 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Including CSS with JS

Hi,

While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS  
was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any  
advantage does this method offer. It was my humble observation, that  
this could invite failure if JS was disabled, but using  or  
@import would still "serve" the CSS.






Return True,




CK
Principal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep
http://bushidodeep.com/
__
"Knowing is not enough, you must apply;
 willing is not enough, you must do."
  ---Bruce Lee


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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Webmaster]

Tyler Keen wrote:


try:

body{
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
}


Hello,

Thanks for the information.

That did not work either.

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/index3.html
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Webmaster]

Chris Littell wrote:



Use margin-top: 0px;

Should do the trick. 



Hello,

Sorry, that did not solve the issue (for me, on my machine).

http://www.gypsydev.us/css/

This is really bugging me.  I have other CSS pages that don't have this 
issue.


Thanks,
Roger
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Tyler Keen]

try:

body{
margin:0px;
padding:0px;
}

On 3/29/06, Webmaster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> In IE I can not get the top: 0px; to work.
>
> Here's a link to the page:
> http://www.gypsydev.us/css/
>
> All I'm trying to do is get the image to be exactly along the top.  The
> image has 0 border around it in photoshop.  This works in all other
> browsers.  For some reason, IE puts a margin at the top.
>
> Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
>
> Thanks,
> Roger
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>
>  See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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>
>


--
Tyler Keen
Work #: 206-812-9246
Mobile #: 206-794-9258
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Re: [WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Chris Littell]

Use margin-top: 0px;

Should do the trick.
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[WSG] top: 0px; Not Working

[Webmaster]

Hello,

In IE I can not get the top: 0px; to work.

Here's a link to the page:
http://www.gypsydev.us/css/

All I'm trying to do is get the image to be exactly along the top.  The 
image has 0 border around it in photoshop.  This works in all other 
browsers.  For some reason, IE puts a margin at the top.


Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks,
Roger
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[WSG] Including CSS with JS

[CK]

Hi,

While ogling the code of a favored site, it was discovered the CSS  
was served with a JS function using document.write. What if any  
advantage does this method offer. It was my humble observation, that  
this could invite failure if JS was disabled, but using  or  
@import would still "serve" the CSS.







Return True,




CK
Principal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep
http://bushidodeep.com/
__
"Knowing is not enough, you must apply;
willing is not enough, you must do."
 ---Bruce Lee


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Re: [WSG] IE mystery padding / wrapping

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

White Ash wrote:
Here is a design I'm working on that is fine in Opera and Firefox. 
However in IE, the content div is pushed underneath the left-hand 
picture.


http://spiritgath.org/2006/thecall_trial.shtml


You may try adding...

#sidebar-b {margin-left: -6px;}

...to prepare some space for overlapping and IE-bugs.

Might also be a good idea to add...

html {font-size: 100%;}

...to avoid the 'em font-resizing bug'[1] in IE/win.

regards
Georg

[1]http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_13.html
--
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[WSG] IE mystery padding / wrapping

[White Ash]

Hi all!

 

Here is a design I’m working on that is fine in Opera
and Firefox.  However in IE, the
content div is pushed underneath the left-hand picture.  It looks to me like there is a little bit
of padding that is being added into the #content div.  If I reduce the width of “the call”
image by 6px, I doesn’t push underneath the
left-hand picture.  However, that
leaves a gap, and I would like for “the call” image to touch the
left and right columns.  I started
with code from inknoise.com.

 

http://spiritgath.org/2006/thecall_trial.shtml

 

http://spiritgath.org/2006/styles_trial.css

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Have a pleasant day!

 

White Ash

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.White-Ash.com

 

[WSG] Keeping track of current navigation link

[Thierry Koblentz]

"How to use the DOM to differentiate navigation links depending on the
document which hosts them".

This solution does not need any hooks besides an ID for the menu (or the ID
of any parent element, for that matter).

http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/navigation_links_and_current_location.asp

I'd appreciate any feedback that would help me improve this solution.

Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


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