Re: [WSG] AIMIA finalists
What about W3C validation especially for business.gov.au 60 HTML errors, meta tags, alt tags? I haven't worked on the business.vic.gov.au site since early 2006, but at the time it had almost perfect validation. There were some errors still remaining in various pockets of content transferred to the new CMS, but in general it was pretty good and certainly the home page and major section pages validated - and they were still working on it. After all, validation is a requirement for AA and they were determined to reach that I was dismayed to look at the site yesterday and realise that someone had replaced all the HTML META elements with XHTML ones, creating a large number of errors for each page. It is a simple error, but it is one that indicates that whoever is currently working on the site is probably not very informed about HTML (or was just very rushed and assumed it was in XHTML!) These things happen, Tim. It is the nature of the business. Websites are transitory beasts, by design I just completed a brief review of a small sample of AIMIA winners for W3C validation, the few I tested did not validate! I can't speak to the others, but it doesn't surprise me. As I said previously, validation was in no way a requirement for the AIMIA awards The McFarlane awards had better standards and expert judges. AIMIA sites are better than the AGIMO .gov award winners! I agree entirely. A lot of it comes down to the guidelines of the award scheme and the varying expertise of the judges involved. The McFarlane prize had very specific guidelines that focused on standards and what most people on this list probably consider to be 'best practice'. They also chose their judges very carefully to be experts in their field AIMIA has many many more sites to judge (from appearances, I have no actual figures) and thus uses many many more judges. Without rigid judging criteria, that is going to lead to varied results depending on varied expertise of the judges. Some judges would obviously have a standards focus, but many would not. Even amongst those who are standards focused, expertise in varying areas is going to differ. I'd certainly be happy to assess sites based on their code whether it is HTML, CSS, JavaScript, XML. I could evaluate their validation, semantics, accessibility, elegance etc. But I would do less well (probably, much less well) at evaluating a site in terms of specific usability, or design. Those aren't my areas and I wouldn't judge them well I'd suggest that the judges of the AIMIA awards would have similar difficulties with some areas depending on their own particular expertise. None of us are experts at everything Lachlan Hardy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] AIMIA finalists
On 23/01/07, Jeffery Lowder - Accessibility 1st [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.business.vic.gov.au - I did the accessibility audits for this site for iFocus I worked on this one for iFocus too. My job was working out how to fix the things that the accessibility testing found. As well as some issues with delivering compliant HTML within the chosen CMS and, eventually, reworking the templates to comply to AA (if I recall correctly, the initial build was CSS-based, but not standards-compliant and certainly not AA). And various other consulting as required ;) Some components from the build were even discussed on this list in 2005. I believe it was something to do with the Quicklinks module in the righthand column. By default, it's an unordered list, but JS converts it into the dropdown box that the client wanted With regard to accessibility not being an issue, it was a big issue for the Business Vic website and they went through many iterations until they had AA covered off, its been a while and I haven't looked at it recently but it did pass at the time. It was a big, long, heavy-duty project and extremely focused on delivering a standards-compliant accessible usable site. Unfortunately, semantics didn't play as large a role in the business requirements as I would have liked, but given the project constraints it came out pretty well, I think. It no longer validates holus-bolus, but it's still close As for the why's and how's of the list, Kat, you need to consider the circumstances: - Sites must be submitted for consideration, so there are always going to be great sites out there that aren't included. - The awards are intended to focus on 'digital content innovation' - 15 points out of 100 are assigned to usability and accessibility (although they do ask that websites conform to Priority 1, which I think is a positive step if not as much as I'd like personally) - 15 further points are assigned to technical expertise which looks like it could cover standards-compliance, but in no way suggests it (details from http://www.aimia.com.au/i-cms?page=912) Rightly or wrongly, the AIMIA awards are not intended to focus on things such as standards-compliance. Given the focus on innovation, some would argue that this is a good thing. Personally, I'm glad that there is at least some consideration given to accessibility and usability And, if you look at the judges list, you'll probably recognise the names of at least some people from our community out there, fighting the good fight! http://www.aimia.com.au/i-cms?page=2567 And I'm spent Lachlan Hardy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] accessible form labels across a group of fields?
On 12/12/06, Jason Kunesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everybody- Hi Jason! label for=monthmonthem*/em/label select name=month Your use of FIELDSET is fine. Your LABEL for the 'day' field is correct, but your other two are not. See above. You need an ID attribute in the SELECT element for the LABEL to be applied explicitly. A correct example would be: label for=monthmonthem*/em/label select id=month name=month Hope that helps! Lachlan Hardy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Articles/reasearch/experience of screen readers
On 03/11/06, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if I may make a few suggestions:Nicely said. Way to cut through the crap! ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] Wide Horizontal Navbar issues
On 6/21/06, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks so much Lachlan! That did work!! And thanks Seona for your suggestion too. It was easier to stick with what I had and make the few changes ... :) No worries! :) One more question ... No matter how wide I pull the browser window to, there seems to be a horizontal scrollbar. Is there a way of getting rid of this? Was this discussed here recently? Can't remember ... This is due to the 100% widths on #banner, #case-banner and #next-prev. Near as I can tell (on this page at least), those widths are unneccessary, so I'd just remove them Alternately, you could add some slight padding on your BODY element such as 3 - 10 pixels. That would also fix it **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Can Divs be a triangle shape?
On 6/15/06, Germ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HelloIm sorry if this question may seem silly or strange, so if it does please humour meIm starting a web and graphics company with my mate and he has given me the first prototype/ screnshot for our webpage and he has this triangle which Im curious if i can code it or would I have to use a graphic??? I dont really want to use graphics as code is faster to upload etc You could start with this and see what you can build from there:http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/slantastic/demo.html But, frankly, I'd probably just use an image as Steve suggested ;) **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
Re: [WSG] Font property
Hi Bojana! On 6/6/06, Bojana Lalic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is this valid css and if not what's wrong with it:font: 2.2em/1.5;In terms of syntax you are correct... (if you mean to indicate font-size and line-height respectively), as per my generic example of 'font' shorthand below:
body {font: font-style font-variant font-weight font-size/line-height font-family;}However, I know the validator won't pick that up unless you at least add the font-family on the end. Or I usually find that to be the case with the 'font' shorthand
Lachlan Hardy
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Re: [WSG] Font property
On 6/6/06, Herrod, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>From what I understand, to use 'font' as a shorthand property you have toinclude the size and font-name as a minimum (in that order).Yep!
I thought the order of properties was important?for example, isn't weight listed first?i.e{font: weight style variant size/line-height font-name}actually, the order is as I stated before:
font-style font-variant font-weight font-size/line-height font-family
or do you guys find it works in any order?I've never used it out of order, so I can't tell you, sorry!I can tell you that simply using 'font' resets all previous settings back to default, so it is always a good idea to make sure you haven't reset something important
Interestingly, it resets 'font-stretch' and 'font-size-adjust' as well, even though you cannot set them with the 'font' propertyIt can also be used to set system fonts, although I've never done that
For more wondrous 'font' shorthand information, see the spec:http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#font-shorthandLachlan Hardy
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Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0
Katrina wrote: As far as I understand, you need to pass zero (a disclaimer exists for this possibility) or one criterion to claim that compliance level. (Disclaimer: I am very likely wrong; what do I know?) According to the conformance levels listed at http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/conformance.html#conformance-reqs Claiming AAA compliance requires all Level 1 2 criteria be met and a minimum of 50% of Level 3 (dependent on user agent support and technology baseline) What I am suggesting is that you can use audio descriptions to prerecorded multimedia to pass both level 1 (1.2.2) and level 2 (1.2.3) and then include American sign language into a corner somewhere to claim level 3 (1.2.5) There will always be people who skimp on their efforts and claim compliance regardless. However, passing Level 1 requires both 1.2.1 and 1.2.2. Just as passing Level 2 requires both 1.2.3 and 1.2.4. This is very clear from the conformance requirements referenced above. What may not be as clear is that passing Level 3 would (in every circumstance I can think of, although I am sure there are outliers) require each of its three success criteria be met. With the exception of the differences between live and pre-recorded multimedia that I mentioned in my previous email on this subject To me, 'or' means only one needs to be present to be true. 'And' means both must be present to result in true. So if you choose the audio description of 1.2.2 then you don't need the text alternative, you already have a true. But this exact same criterion is then repeated in 1.2.3. This is correct. For Level 1, the author can choose either audio descriptions OR a full multimedia text alternative including any interaction Guideline 1.2 only requires that you provide both in order to achieve Level 3 My current worry is that a level 3 compliancy with guideline 1.2 could result in something inaccessible for the hearing-impaired who do not use American sign-language. This concerns me too. It basically becomes the same as whether or not you can read a Japanese web site. Should its author care? It depends on whether or not they are trying for an English-speaking audience I hope this clears up your confusion (and if I've made mistakes, someone please let me know!). If you still disagree with the wording, phrasing, intent or any of the content of the latest draft, I strongly recommend that you let the Working Group know. As per Russ's email this morning, the version we are discussing here is the Last Call Working Draft. Comments should be received on or before 31 May 2006. Comments should be made in one of four formats: * online form, * downloadable excel form, * downloadable html form, or * downloadable text form. Instructions and downloadable files for all are available at: http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/comments/ They are particularly keen on comments regarding the conformance model and success criteria, so your concerns are very relevant, Kat. Please address them to the group if they still trouble you! As a side note, I recommend a bit of administrative slyness regarding such comments... Submit each one separately. My understanding is that internal standards requires that each receive a separate response, hence ensuring that each of your queries is fully addressed Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that (or any of the preceding essay) :) Have a great weekend, folks Lachlan Hardy (The Attempting Accessibility Lachlan) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Pixel to Em conversion.
morten fjellman wrote: I'm trying to get this layout to work with min- and max-width. The max-width needs to be 880px wide and the min-width must be 680px. I have made the header and menu in such a way that they can be compressed (to a point), but I can't seem to figure out how to set the correct em or %. The right column must have a fixed width of 220px and the main content area must have a flexible width. IE problems with min- and max-width is not an issue on this project. G'day Morten Gerardo is right. All you need to do is specify 'width: 200px;' on #sidebar and specify 'margin-right: 220px;' to #content (where the right margin equals the width of #sidebar + appropriate amount of whitespace between the columns) Then simply remove your width definition from #content and it will work as I suspect you require This reveals some issues with your menu wrapping. And also be wary of your final menu item dropdown going off screen to the right :) Let us know if that wasn't what you were after Lachlan Hardy (The Other Lachlan) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Pixel to Em conversion - understanding IRONY
russ - maxdesign wrote: Irony is a form of speech in which the real meaning is concealed or contradicted by the words used. Irony involves the perception that things are not what they are said to be or what they seem. So irony isn't a a black fly in your Chardonnay or a traffic jam when you're already late? Lachlan Hardy (The Off-Topic Lachlan) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Adaptability to Interfaces - was [WSG] Usability Studies on Click Here Labelling of Links?
Geoff Deering wrote: He said children don't have this problem, they regard the whole interface as potentially interactive. I think things have evolved a lot since then, but I notice how quickly young users can learn a user interface, and it probably does not effect them to the same level if UIs do not behave in a standard way. But if they don't, UIs are far more likely to impact the average user if they have none standard ways of communicating the nature and state of their interface. We've been having interesting discussions at work lately about gaming interfaces and how they apply to UI on the web. We're still in the middle of roughing out concepts derived from that, but some interesting points have already been raised In particular, that long-term gamers have far more adaptability towards interfaces. They seem to retain the abilities you mention above much better than those of us who don't game. These observations are drawn from totally informal testing of a very small sample but we can't justify anything else at this stage (although I'd love to see someone who can!) The implications I see are that as gaming becomes more and more mainstream (which is pretty hard to argue with in Western society, I'd say, but feel free to shoot me down), more children are going to retain these skills into adulthood. This would mean that the potential for interfaces to become more complex and more individual will increase in future I don't want to give the impression that I am in any way against standardising UIs on certain conventions - resulting in 'best practice' methods for communicating particular things to our users. I consider that a vital part of our duty to the evolution of the web I just find this concept to be an exciting indicator of cool things to come - building on the aforementioned conventions creatively to produce stunning, fun, *usable* interfaces Does anyone else feel this or do I need more coffee? (Or possibly a clue to staying on topic...) Lachlan The other other Lachlan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Standards Speech
Mark Harris wrote: russ - maxdesign wrote: A few tips I always try to keep in mind: 1. always wear cloths when public speaking Dammit! That's what I've been doing wrong. I've only been wearing fashionable clothes! I shall staple some cloths together immediately... May I suggest dirty sackcloth, preferably hessian? It really adds that 'martyr to the cause' feel to your standards presentations ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
