[WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[cf]

Hello list,

I am in a desperate state. I am working for a .com.au and they are 
struggling with some of the more forward-thinking web development 
features that are around...


Please take a look at www.cataloguecentral.com.au

If you think it is poorly programmed, take a look at what it used to be 
(2 months ago):

www.cataloguecentral.com.au/default5.asp

I am trying my hardest to drag this business into 2007 but there is 
solid resistance


Unfortunately, Catalogue Central have received some poor advice in the 
past and seem to still be receiving poor advice now.


The issue at the moment is to do with the red drop down list/menu at 
the top left hand corner of the site


People here want to expand the menu so that the contents of each list 
are printed down under each heading. Your thoughts pleaseIt's 
alright if you think the same way but I think a drop down menu, in this 
case, runs rings around the alternative


Thanks for your thoughts.

Christian Fagan.
Fagan Design.
www.fagandesign.com.au




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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Micky Hulse]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thanks for your thoughts.


At my part-time job, we have/had similar issue... We ended up choosing a 
long left-hand menu instead of the fly-outs... Mainly because our user 
base was not "getting" the fly-outs.


In the end, it was easier to just expand the navigation vs dealing with 
the multitude of customer complaint/service emails.


Cheers,
Micky

--
 Wishlist: 
   Switch: 
 BCC?: 
   My: 


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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Tim]

Dear Christian,

A few validation errors here almost as many as Target in the USA case.
Lots of unencoded ampersands "&" in the javascript which could be  
linked to and not put in the page.


I would make three new pages with the links for the:
New Catalogues
10 Most Popular
Closing this week

The Javascript could be scrapped by adding just three new pages!
What if users have Javascript turned off they cannot navigate the site,  
an accessibility issue under the 1992 Australian Discrimination Act.


Tell them they are not complying with legal obligations. I didn't do an  
accessibility tests as it looks so certain to fail.
META tags are a bit sparce! You could also tell them they will get much  
higher search engine rankings with validated code by using headings and  
paragraph tags. The tables are badly written with no header info or  
captions
Obsolete code is used like align="center" valign="bottom" title tags  
would help for more rollover info on static links.


It also seems odd to me to have 8 linked stylesheets just for small  
formatting differences, that CSS could be in one file.


Good luck Christian.

Tim
http://www.hereticpress.com


http://validator.w3.org/check? 
uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cataloguecentral.com.au%2F

On 20/02/2007, at 12:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello list,

I am in a desperate state. I am working for a .com.au and they are  
struggling with some of the more forward-thinking web development  
features that are around...


Please take a look at www.cataloguecentral.com.au

If you think it is poorly programmed, take a look at what it used to  
be (2 months ago):

www.cataloguecentral.com.au/default5.asp

I am trying my hardest to drag this business into 2007 but there is  
solid resistance


Unfortunately, Catalogue Central have received some poor advice in the  
past and seem to still be receiving poor advice now.


The issue at the moment is to do with the red drop down list/menu at  
the top left hand corner of the site


People here want to expand the menu so that the contents of each list  
are printed down under each heading. Your thoughts pleaseIt's  
alright if you think the same way but I think a drop down menu, in  
this case, runs rings around the alternative


Thanks for your thoughts.

Christian Fagan.
Fagan Design.
www.fagandesign.com.au




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The Editor
Heretic Press
http://www.hereticpress.com
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Kenny Graham]

wow, this is probably off topic, but whenever i have your site loaded
in firefox, my mouse cursor disappears when it's not moving,
regardless of where on the firefox the cursor is (menu bar, page, etc)
or what tab i'm in.  When I close the tab that your site is in, the
cursor returns to normal.  I repeated a few times.  Not sure what
could possibly be causing that, but if it's not just me, it's probably
a bug worth figuring out and working around.  Then again, maybe it's
just me.


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RE: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Patrick Bruno]

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the standards use of the 
and  tags (like I'm doing here on the 2007 image of the left column:
http://www.heliosdg.com/mgcaf/)? I did some testing by turning images off in
IE7 and Firefox but the alt tag data doesn't appear. Does that mean screen
readers can't find the information? Would it be best to provide  tags
below the mapped image in case the image doesn't load? I also googled for
web standards and the map & area tags but didn't come up with much.

Regards,
 
Patrick Bruno
Art Director
Helios Design Group/JM Digital Corporation
John C. Stennis Space Center
Building 1210, Suite 116
Stennis Space Center, MS 39529
ph: 228-688-2522
cell: 601-425-4059
fax: 228-688-1566
www.heliosdg.com
www.jmdigicorp.com




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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[David Dorward]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:32:15 -, Patrick Bruno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:


I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the standards use of the  
 and  tags (like I'm doing here on the 2007 image of the left  
column: http://www.heliosdg.com/mgcaf/)? I did some testing by turning  
images off in IE7 and Firefox but the alt tag


Attribute!

data doesn't appear. Does that mean screen readers can't find the  
information?


No (which is not to say that they can either), but it does mean that  
people using those browsers with images disabled (Gosh, bandwidth on  
Vodafone is expensive, I'll turn images off) will have problems.


http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/mapalt.html is a good document on the  
subject.



--
David Dorward
   - Freshly redesigned


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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Charles Eaton]

W3C says: "try to avoid server-side image maps" [xhtml]

a better setup (IMHO), is to use a "definition list",
drop your image in the background of the , giving it the image size,
use  and 3 's in a two row setup to overlay the image.
add text [no display] and links, ... your in business.
-chuck
==
On Feb 20, 2007, at 9:32 AM, Patrick Bruno wrote:

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the standards use of  
the 
and  tags (like I'm doing here on the 2007 image of the left  
column:




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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[David Dorward]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:36:18 -, Charles Eaton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:


I was wondering if anyone knew anything about the standards use of the  
 and  tags (like I'm doing here on the 2007 image of the  
left column:



W3C says: "try to avoid server-side image maps" [xhtml]


If it is using area elements, then its a client side image map.


a better setup (IMHO), is to use a "definition list",
drop your image in the background of the , giving it the image size,
use  and 3 's in a two row setup to overlay the image.
add text [no display] and links, ... your in business.


Suffers from the usual problems of FIR. i.e. No alt text if images are  
disabled and no content screen readers can get to.


It also uses the rather dubious practise of having of a definition list as  
a generic key/values list.


Also, I don't understand what content you expect to put in the term and  
what values you expect to put in the descriptions.


--
David Dorward
   - Freshly redesigned


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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Charles Eaton]

On Feb 20, 2007, at 10:47 AM, David Dorward wrote:





a better setup (IMHO), is to use a "definition list",
drop your image in the background of the , giving it the image  
size,

use  and 3 's in a two row setup to overlay the image.
add text [no display] and links, ... your in business.


Suffers from the usual problems of FIR. i.e. No alt text if images  
are disabled and no content screen readers can get to.


==
It's in my sandbox and layed out below.
... you can add more " 's" to fill it out or use a hover.



=
dl{
width:250px;
height:248px;
background-image: url(callforentries.gif);
color:transparent;
}

dl a{color:transparent;}

dd:hover{border: 1px solid red; }

dt{
width:100%;
height:160px;
}
dd.one{
margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;
width:80px;
height:75px;
}

dd.two{
width:85px;
height:75px;
margin: 12px 0px 0px -2px;
}

dd.three{
width:80px;
height:75px;
margin: 12px 0px 0px -3px;
}

dd.one,dd.two,dd.three{
display:inline-block;
}


==


Call for entries 2007 Mississippi Gulf Coast Addy Awards 
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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[David Dorward]

Charles Eaton wrote:




I doubt that http://dorward.me.uk/tmp/fake-image-map.png is the effect 
you are after.



background-image: url(callforentries.gif);
color:transparent;


Invisible text is hard to read against any background colour, and you 
can't depend on images being loaded. This thread started because of 
issues with alt text on image maps not showing up when images weren't there.




Call for entries 2007 Mississippi Gulf Coast Addy Awards 
Enter Now To Win 
Contest Rules Click Here To Read More 

View All Of The Current Entries 





Now those really aren't definitions of that term.


--
David Dorward   


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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Al Kendall]

only a few validation issues...  Failed validation, 210 errors in the new
site with 191 in the old one



On 2/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello list,

I am in a desperate state. I am working for a .com.au and they are
struggling with some of the more forward-thinking web development
features that are around...

Please take a look at www.cataloguecentral.com.au

If you think it is poorly programmed, take a look at what it used to be
(2 months ago):
www.cataloguecentral.com.au/default5.asp

I am trying my hardest to drag this business into 2007 but there is
solid resistance

Unfortunately, Catalogue Central have received some poor advice in the
past and seem to still be receiving poor advice now.

The issue at the moment is to do with the red drop down list/menu at
the top left hand corner of the site

People here want to expand the menu so that the contents of each list
are printed down under each heading. Your thoughts pleaseIt's
alright if you think the same way but I think a drop down menu, in this
case, runs rings around the alternative

Thanks for your thoughts.

Christian Fagan.
Fagan Design.
www.fagandesign.com.au




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--
Cheers!

Al Kendall


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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Tim]

I work so hard to have all pages validated XHTML 1.0 Strict and AAA 
accessible.


Thanks for that 210 validation errors. Really gross. Any of my real 
pages validate, I feel so cheated apart for the loss of income, the 
defacement of W3C standards I try to hold high.


My beloved authors would be distraught and embarrassed to see the 
errors and all loss of formatting.
This is an abomination on any artist. Thanks Al I am waiting a bit 
before changing it to the graphic, just biding my time.


Tim

On 21/02/2007, at 8:25 PM, Al Kendall wrote:

only a few validation issues...  Failed validation, 210 errors in the 
new site with 191 in the old one




On 2/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I am in a desperate state. I am working for a .com.au and they are
struggling with some of the more forward-thinking web development
features that are around...

Please take a look at www.cataloguecentral.com.au

If you think it is poorly programmed, take a look at what it used to 
be

(2 months ago):
www.cataloguecentral.com.au/default5.asp

I am trying my hardest to drag this business into 2007 but there is
solid resistance

Unfortunately, Catalogue Central have received some poor advice in the
past and seem to still be receiving poor advice now.

The issue at the moment is to do with the red drop down list/menu at
the top left hand corner of the site

People here want to expand the menu so that the contents of each list
are printed down under each heading. Your thoughts pleaseIt's
alright if you think the same way but I think a drop down menu, in 
this

case, runs rings around the alternative

Thanks for your thoughts.

Christian Fagan.
Fagan Design.
 www.fagandesign.com.au




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--
Cheers!

Al Kendall
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The Editor
Heretic Press
http://www.hereticpress.com
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Charles Eaton]

On Feb 21, 2007, at 2:28 AM, David Dorward wrote:

Invisible text is hard to read against any background colour, and  
you can't depend on images being loaded. This thread started  
because of issues with alt text on image maps not showing up when  
images weren't there.


... that will teach me to read the whole thread!
Have a look in my sandbox, i think i found a solution. www.eatons.net/sandbox/no-map.html>


The OBJECT model

Two ref's: 


It tested well in Firefox and Opera on the Mac (Note: OK, but not as  
well in Safari???)

I don't know how it handles on Explorer in Windows???

-chuck


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ADMIN: THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Site Issue - opinions please

[Lea de Groot]

Hi guys,

This thread doesn't seem to be on topic - perhaps a design list would 
be more appropriate?
If you need help getting a drop down (etc) to work, we're here for you, 
but what sort of design element to use isn't on topic.
Sorry!

Any further responses should go straight to Christian

warmly,
Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Core Group Member

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:24:46 +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The issue at the moment is to do with the red drop down list/menu at 
> the top left hand corner of the site
> 
> People here want to expand the menu so that the contents of each list 
> are printed down under each heading. Your thoughts pleaseIt's 
> alright if you think the same way but I think a drop down menu, in 
> this case, runs rings around the alternative


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