Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-21 Thread Steve Olive
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:49 am, Ted Drake wrote:
> I don't get the paranoia.
> IE7 is much more secure than IE6. If you don't like IE7, you can simply
> uninstall it and ie6 is restored after a reboot.
>
> As a web dev, you need to install IE7 and test your sites. Ignoring it
> isn't going to help your web development.
>
> Ted
>
>
> John Faulds wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:52:17 +1000, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
> >> I will not be allowing IE7 to be
> >>
> >>> installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been
> >>> worked out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).
> >>
> >> how do you go about doing this?
> >
> > Do you mean how to prevent IE7 being installed via automatic updates?
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=4516A6F7-5D44-482B
>- 9DBD-869B4A90159C&displaylang=en
>
> thanks for the link.  i missed it the first time.  too big of a hurry i
> guess.
>
> dwain

[Humour Warning!]

There is already an update available - http://ie7.com


-- 
Regards,

Steve
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e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-20 Thread David Cameron
I've got an installation of Win XP Pro on WMware and it and the 'real' 
version on my PC validate and accept updates without problems. Perhaps it's 
because I'm using a static IP and the same internal IP for both, and that 
the setup (mobo, RAM, gfx etc) is identical.


Using the virtual setup to convert my site to look good with IE7 (and all 
the rest).


Incidentally folks, I've done a little article on the IE7 download options 
and related information. Nothing fancy. www.camieabz.co.uk/blocker/ie7.htm


Dave Cameron.



From: "John Faulds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 10:43:45 +1000

I agree, though, that a virtual machine is the way to go for those who  
need multiple installs, especially given that Virtual PC for Windows is  
now a free download.


Does using Microsoft's Virtual PC make any difference as to the legality  
of running the same copy of Windows on different virtual drives as was  
mentioned earlier in this discussion?


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-20 Thread John Faulds
I agree, though, that a virtual machine is the way to go for those who  
need multiple installs, especially given that Virtual PC for Windows is  
now a free download.


Does using Microsoft's Virtual PC make any difference as to the legality  
of running the same copy of Windows on different virtual drives as was  
mentioned earlier in this discussion?


--
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www.tyssendesign.com.au
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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-20 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

On 20 Oct 2006, at 17:26:35, Rahul Gonsalves wrote:


Ted Drake wrote:

I don't get the paranoia.
IE7 is much more secure than IE6. If you don't like IE7, you can  
simply

uninstall it and ie6 is restored after a reboot.
As a web dev, you need to install IE7 and test your sites.  
Ignoring it isn't

going to help your web development.
Ted


Paranoia? I see a zero-day exploit, and a partly new codebase. With  
Microsofts' reputation for security, I'd prefer to be safe rather  
than sorry. Known devil, etc, etc. Either way, I only use IE (all  
variants) for testing.


I run IE7 in an isolated virtual machine (Microsoft Virtual PC) for  
testing, as mentioned earlier. I just don't see the point of  
installing it on my main machine.




It's not a zero-day exploit; it already exists in IE6 and that  
advisory is just a repeat of an advisory from about a year ago, with  
a "7" stuck on it to generate a bit of buzz. As to why MS haven't  
fixed it yet...


I agree, though, that a virtual machine is the way to go for those  
who need multiple installs, especially given that Virtual PC for  
Windows is now a free download.


I run Parallels Desktop on my MacBook with separate installs of WinXP  
with IE6 and IE7, and also an install of Vista (just in case IE7  
somehow behaves differently there). Once I find my Win2k CD, I can  
have IE5 and 5.5 too, and I don't have to muck about with standalones  
and the potential anomalies that can arise.


Regards,

Nick.
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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-20 Thread Rahul Gonsalves

Ted Drake wrote:

I don't get the paranoia.
IE7 is much more secure than IE6. If you don't like IE7, you can simply
uninstall it and ie6 is restored after a reboot.

As a web dev, you need to install IE7 and test your sites. Ignoring it isn't
going to help your web development.

Ted


Paranoia? I see a zero-day exploit, and a partly new codebase. With 
Microsofts' reputation for security, I'd prefer to be safe rather than 
sorry. Known devil, etc, etc. Either way, I only use IE (all variants) 
for testing.


I run IE7 in an isolated virtual machine (Microsoft Virtual PC) for 
testing, as mentioned earlier. I just don't see the point of installing 
it on my main machine.


Cordially,
 - Rahul.


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RE: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-20 Thread Ted Drake
I don't get the paranoia.
IE7 is much more secure than IE6. If you don't like IE7, you can simply
uninstall it and ie6 is restored after a reboot.

As a web dev, you need to install IE7 and test your sites. Ignoring it isn't
going to help your web development.

Ted


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:38 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

John Faulds wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:52:17 +1000, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
>> I will not be allowing IE7 to be
>>> installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been 
>>> worked out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).
>>
>> how do you go about doing this?
> 
> Do you mean how to prevent IE7 being installed via automatic updates?
> 
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=4516A6F7-5D44-482B-
9DBD-869B4A90159C&displaylang=en 

thanks for the link.  i missed it the first time.  too big of a hurry i 
guess.

dwain

 




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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-19 Thread Gary Barber

Samuel Richardson wrote:

The first security exploit has already come out for IE7. It would be a wise
idea to hold off for a few weeks at least before installing.


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Christian Montoya
Sent: Friday, 20 October 2006 8:20 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

On 10/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
I will not be allowing IE7 to be


installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked
out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).
  


You are doing this even though IE 7 is supposed to be much safer than
IE 6? I mean, I know it probably won't be more stable, but safe? IE 6?
Hmmm?

  
The exploit is for IE 6 too, so its really a code carry over exploit and 
not a IE 7 specific exploit..


--
Gary



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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-19 Thread Serdar Kılıç
I ran their test and it said that my system didn't appear to be vulnerable (IE7 & XP SP 2),  I might add that I'm completely patched including one fix from this morning.On 20/10/06, 
Samuel Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The first security exploit has already come out for IE7. It would be a wiseidea to hold off for a few weeks at least before installing.-- Cheers,Serdar Kilic
http://weblog.kilic.net/

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RE: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-19 Thread Samuel Richardson

The first security exploit has already come out for IE7. It would be a wise
idea to hold off for a few weeks at least before installing.


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Christian Montoya
Sent: Friday, 20 October 2006 8:20 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

On 10/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
> I will not be allowing IE7 to be
> > installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked
> > out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).
>

You are doing this even though IE 7 is supposed to be much safer than
IE 6? I mean, I know it probably won't be more stable, but safe? IE 6?
Hmmm?

-- 
-- 
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-19 Thread libwebdev
At 06:20 PM 19/10/2006 -0400, Christian Montoya wrote:>> Rahul Gonsalves wrote:>> I will not be allowing IE7 to be>> > installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked
>> > out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).You are doing this even though IE 7 is supposed to be much safer than>IE 6? I mean, I know it probably won't be more stable, but safe? IE 6?
>Hmmm?there is a vulnerability already:http://secunia.com/advisories/22477/lib.

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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-19 Thread Christian Montoya

On 10/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
I will not be allowing IE7 to be
> installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked
> out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).



You are doing this even though IE 7 is supposed to be much safer than
IE 6? I mean, I know it probably won't be more stable, but safe? IE 6?
Hmmm?

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread dwain . alford

John Faulds wrote:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:52:17 +1000, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
I will not be allowing IE7 to be
installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been 
worked out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).


how do you go about doing this?


Do you mean how to prevent IE7 being installed via automatic updates?

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=4516A6F7-5D44-482B-9DBD-869B4A90159C&displaylang=en 


thanks for the link.  i missed it the first time.  too big of a hurry i 
guess.


dwain


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread dwain . alford

John Faulds wrote:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:52:17 +1000, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
I will not be allowing IE7 to be
installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been 
worked out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).


how do you go about doing this?


Do you mean how to prevent IE7 being installed via automatic updates?


yes.

dwain


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread John Faulds

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:52:17 +1000, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
I will not be allowing IE7 to be
installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked  
out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).


how do you go about doing this?


Do you mean how to prevent IE7 being installed via automatic updates?

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=4516A6F7-5D44-482B-9DBD-869B4A90159C&displaylang=en


--
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Web & print design services
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Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread dwain . alford

Rahul Gonsalves wrote:
I will not be allowing IE7 to be
installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked 
out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).


how do you go about doing this?

dwain


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh




Looks like that thing has been released


Time to lock one of my VirtualMachines out of software update to keep  
IE 6, and have the other one allowed to proceed, me thinks.


Philippe
---
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RE: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread Dennis Lapcewich
Return Receipt
   
   Your   RE: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7 
   document:   
   
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   received
   by: 
   
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RE: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread Conyers, Dwayne
John Faulds ink wired:

> With the public release of IE7 nearly on us 
> I'm just wondering whether it's better to  
> download the fix to stop IE7 installing via  
> automatic update and continue to use IE7 as  
> a standalone, or let IE7 replace IE6 and then  
> install a standalone for IE6.


Personally, I would wait until IE7 is stable.  Just change your group
policy so that it does not update until you are ready, and then change
the policy.

-- 
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http://dwacon.blogspot.com


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread Joseph R. B. Taylor

My two cents:

The browser set up choice really depends on your needs.  For example:

I'm running Win XP on my main work machine and have upgraded to version 
7 as my main IE install.  I downloaded the IE6 standalone (eolas 
version) and set it aside for simple testing.  I'm fortunate enough that 
I'm mostly aware of IE6's classic rendering issues and how to 
avoid/correct them.  That frees me up to explore some of the greater 
issues I'm currently fiddling with in IE7 (a few rendering issues upon 
zooming in and out etc).


For those fairly new to CSS layout techniques, I'd wait on IE7 and 
really dig in and learn about the IE6 bugs and how to deal with them.  
Alternate stylesheets for IE really make it easy when dealing with 
heights and widths, 3 pixel spaces etc).  IE7 isn't going to become the 
predominant version used for quite some time, so don't believe for a 
moment that you can ignore IE6.


IE7 is quite reliable at rendering layouts correctly.  It looks nearly 
identical to its brethren.  I sometimes forget which browser I'm using 
(comparing to Firefox 1.5).  I only realize where I am when going to use 
a keyboard shortcut to validate my page for remove styles or something 
and nothing happens.


--
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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-18 Thread Dave Lane

I can think of a few approaches you could try:
1. download VMware free server edition (go to http://vmware.com and find 
the download link) and install another instance of Windows with 
whichever browser you don't have running on your native Windows install. 
 This gets around the issues of running either in standalone mode 
mentioned by other posters.  It is, however, probably technically 
illegal to have the same instance (i.e. same activation #) of Windows 
running twice simultaneously.
2. you could always do what we do: Run Linux.  We can run IE 5.0, 5.5, 
and 6.0 simultaneously under Wine without any Windows licenses required 
- go to http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
Caveat: same problems as with running the browsers stand-alone on 
Windows (although cookies seem to work - but PNG transparency hacks 
don't, from my experience).
3. install free VMware on Linux or Windows, install virtual Windows with 
IE6 as in default install (plus patches).  Clone it and then install IE7 
in the clone.  Same activation #, two different instances.  Not sure of 
the legality, but it allows you to have access to both simultaneously 
without the disadvantages of standalones.  Only problem is that you're 
running so much Windows :P


Hope that helps someone.
Cheers,

Dave

John Faulds wrote:
With the public release of IE7 nearly on us I'm just wondering whether 
it's better to download the fix to stop IE7 installing via automatic 
update and continue to use IE7 as a standalone, or let IE7 replace IE6 
and then install a standalone for IE6.


What would be the pros and cons of each method?

--Tyssen Design
Web & print design services
www.tyssendesign.com.au
Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-17 Thread John Faulds
I believe, that when testing, it is best to simulate the native  
conditions under which a browser would be used.


Yeah, good point.


PS: Thanks for your submit button skinning tutorial! Using it right now.


No worries! :)

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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-17 Thread Rahul Gonsalves

John Faulds wrote:
With the public release of IE7 nearly on us I'm just wondering whether 
it's better to download the fix to stop IE7 installing via automatic 
update and continue to use IE7 as a standalone, or let IE7 replace IE6 
and then install a standalone for IE6.


What would be the pros and cons of each method?


I believe, that when testing, it is best to simulate the native 
conditions under which a browser would be used.


To that end, I have IE6 installed on my computer, and have a separate 
virtual machine which has IE7 (and FF2RC3, Swift etc) installed on it as 
a standalone right now, but which I will allow to be automatically 
upgraded at some point in time. I will not be allowing IE7 to be 
installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked 
out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-).


Regards,
 - Rahul.

PS: Thanks for your submit button skinning tutorial! Using it right now.


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RE: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-17 Thread Samuel Richardson
 
I'm using the IE6 standalone with IE7 installed, the only problem is that
the standalones don't support cookies and don't support the hack for alpha
PNGs (they don't display at all)

S


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Christian Montoya
Sent: Wednesday, 18 October 2006 1:19 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

On 10/17/06, John Faulds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With the public release of IE7 nearly on us I'm just wondering whether
> it's better to download the fix to stop IE7 installing via automatic
> update and continue to use IE7 as a standalone, or let IE7 replace IE6 and
> then install a standalone for IE6.
>
> What would be the pros and cons of each method?

I have a hunch (just a hunch) that the standalone of IE 6 will be more
stable than that of IE 7. Don't know if it's true, but if it is, then
you would probably be better off having IE 6 as a standalone.

-- 
-- 
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-17 Thread dwain . alford

Christian Montoya wrote:

On 10/17/06, John Faulds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

With the public release of IE7 nearly on us I'm just wondering whether
it's better to download the fix to stop IE7 installing via automatic
update and continue to use IE7 as a standalone, or let IE7 replace IE6 
and

then install a standalone for IE6.

What would be the pros and cons of each method?


I have a hunch (just a hunch) that the standalone of IE 6 will be more
stable than that of IE 7. Don't know if it's true, but if it is, then
you would probably be better off having IE 6 as a standalone.



i've never had much luck getting a standalone to work.  it seems that it 
either replaces the current version or it does nothing at all.  i'm 
running w2k.  is there something i'm missing?


i guess i really don't have an issue with ie7, except i can't run it.

dwain


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Re: [WSG] IE6 -> IE7

2006-10-17 Thread Christian Montoya

On 10/17/06, John Faulds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

With the public release of IE7 nearly on us I'm just wondering whether
it's better to download the fix to stop IE7 installing via automatic
update and continue to use IE7 as a standalone, or let IE7 replace IE6 and
then install a standalone for IE6.

What would be the pros and cons of each method?


I have a hunch (just a hunch) that the standalone of IE 6 will be more
stable than that of IE 7. Don't know if it's true, but if it is, then
you would probably be better off having IE 6 as a standalone.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com


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