Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
Jamie, This is hardball, and you need to start getting aggressive with FPL. First of all, forget phone calls. That won't get you anywhere. You need to start sending FPL strongly-worded letters by "certified return-receipt" mail. All of your communications with FPL from here on out should be in that mode of certified return-receipt mail. That establishes a legal record, admissible as evidence in court, of your communications with FPL. I am not a litigious person and have never sued anyone, but if I were in your position, I would consider initiating a class-action lawsuit against FPL. But you first need to write them multiple sequential letters, every two weeks, demanding your net-metering rights under Florida state law and PSC regulations. You have to give FPL the chance, and a reasonable amount of time, to respond and comply with the law. The only way you can prove in a court of law that you have done so is to write them multiple sequential letters, all by certified return-receipt mail, demanding that they comply with the law. If after 6-8 weeks worth of this letter-writing campaign you have not gotten satisfactory response and action from FPL, then you should threaten them with both a class-action lawsuit for violation of Florida law and PSC regulations and also referral to the state's attorney for criminal prosecution. If I were you, I would start contacting other PVers in FPL's territory all over the state to see if they are having the same problems as you in getting FPL to comply with Florida's net-metering law. Advise all of them to also repeatedly write FPL by certified return-receipt mail demanding their rights under Florida law. Start a user's forum discussion group in which you all compare notes and prepare your class-action lawsuit against FPL. FPL has a very long, sad, and bad history and reputation of greenwashing and hypocrisy of being against Renewable Energy, especially solar, here in their home state of Florida, when it comes to their customers, i.e. of distributed residential solar power. They fought very hard against and succeeded in blocking net-metering for years and years. FPL has been the single biggest impediment to progress on the commercialization of solar energy in Florida over the last decade. You are going to have fight for your legal rights and get tough with this 800-pound gorilla. As I said, this is hardball. The views expressed above are solely my own and don't reflect anyone else's. Charles Whalen - Original Message - From: "Jamie Saccullo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Florida EAA" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet Charles thanks for the info. I put a call into FPL and have not received a call back yet so I'll just keep calling. It is quite annoying to spend so much money on a PV system and get robbed every month. I just figured there was a delay with the PSC. All they really need to do is give me back my analog meter, but of course they won't do that. Showing someone my digital meter going backward isn't nearly as much fun as seeing the analog one go backwards. Jamie On Sep 4, 2008, at 1:02 AM, Charles Whalen wrote: >> You will never have an annual credit if you live in >> South Florida unless you have a huge system and >> never run your AC. > > You don't need AC at all in South Florida if you design your house > correctly. I have met several such people with homes in South > Florida who > do not need and don't use AC and yet live and sleep cool and > comfortably, > including some green architects and some PV homes; I have been in one > such home myself. There are people with PV homes in South Florida > who *do* > have annual credits. > > As for net-metering, what I can tell you from the legislator who > authored > and introduced it into the legislature is that it is a done deal, > passed, > signed into law by Governor Crist, finished, completed, and > implemented by > the Florida PSC. I was sitting in House Majority Leader Adam Hasner's > office just a few days ago and had this very conversation with > him. He said > he was quite sure that the PSC had already implemented it but said > he would > check on that for me right there and proceeded to call up the head > of the > PSC, who confirmed it and immediately emailed Adam the relevant > info, which > Adam then forwarded onto me. Here is the information, from the > head of the > Florida PSC: > > --- > > Below is the link to the FPSC news release on approval of the net > metering > rule: > > http://www.floridapsc.com/home/news/index.aspx?id=370 > > > 25-6.065 Interconnection and Net Metering of Customer-Owned Renewable > Generation
Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
ust more > foot-dragging and obfuscation, you should report FPL's non- > compliance to the > PSC. That is completely unacceptable for FPL to refuse to comply > with the > law. Majority Leader Hasner and I specifically discussed FPL's past > behavior and how they had dragged their feet and fought against net- > metering > for years. I can't say this any louder: NET-METERING IS THE LAW > OF THE > LAND HERE IN FLORIDA! FPL had better get into compliance > immediately > > If you do not get this resolved by FPL, and then the PSC, if > necessary, > please let me know so that I can take this up with Majority Leader > Hasner, > who is the leader of Renewable Energy and PV initiatives in the > Florida > House of Representatives. Please document and keep records of all > of your > communications with FPL. > > As I said, feel free to forward this email in its entirety to FPL. > > Good luck! > > Charles Whalen > Florida EAA > > > - Original Message - > From: "Jamie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "FLEAA Mailing List" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:59 PM > Subject: Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet > > I received a letter a few months ago from FPL informing me about the > change in the net metering law. I was told I would be sent a new > interconnect contract when available. I still have not received the > new contract and I still do not have net metering. In addition to > that, over a year ago I signed up for FPL's "On Call" program and I > have never gotten a credit. I was eventually told the billing system > couldn't give me the On Call credit because I have a special meter > and they were working on a solution. I have the digital, duel > register meter that FPL installed when my PV system passed > inspection. You will never have an annual credit if you live in > South Florida unless you have a huge system and never run your AC. > My PV system is 5.2 kw and even in the winter with the AC off I never > have a credit. The people you read about in Home Power magazine that > sometimes have a credit have very small houses and no AC or electric > heat. They also may have wind turbines or micro-hydro contributing > to power output. > > Jamie > > > On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:37 PM, Charles Whalen wrote: > >>> I am hearing that the electric company will only give you credit >>> towards >>> future bills, not cash. Doesnt make sense if you produce your own >>> electric >>> and do not use the grid that you can only get a credit that you >>> may never >>> use. >> >> As mandated by Florida state law and already implemented by the >> Florida PSC, >> the way that net-metering works in Florida is that the electric >> utility will >> roll your net-positive kWh credit into the next month and continue to >> accumulate such credits until the end of 12 months, at which time the >> utility will pay you cash for the cumulative kWh credits you have >> built up >> over the previous year, *BUT*, valued and paid to you at the >> utility's >> "avoided cost", which is around 4 cents/kWh, *not* at their retail >> price, >> which is around 12 cents/kWh. >> >> The way you earn the monthly net-positive credits (if indeed you >> have any) >> is on an implicit "retail" basis, valued at 12 cents/kWh, i.e. >> netted off >> against your usage at the same retail price (of 12 cents/kWh) that >> the >> utility charges; but if you have any cumulative net-positive kWh >> balance at >> the end of 12 months, that is paid to you in cash at the utility's >> wholesale >> avoided cost rate of 4 cents/kWh. >> >> This is also the case in some places in California. In other >> places in >> California, you simply lose any accumulated net-positive kWh >> credits at the >> end of 12 months if you don't use them up by sucking those kWh back >> out of >> the grid. In both cases, what California EV/PVers do is to have a >> big >> charging party in the 12th month of their annual billing cycle, >> whereby they >> invite all their EV buddies over to charge at their house for a >> week to suck >> all those kWh back out of the grid to get them back down to a >> cumulative net >> of 0 to end the 12-month cycle. >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Michael Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:19
Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
Hi Charles and All, - Original Message Follows - From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Florida EAA" , "Jamie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 01:02:57 -0400 >> You will never have an annual credit if you live in >> South Florida unless you have a huge system and >> never run your AC. > >You don't need AC at all in South Florida if you design >your house correctly. I have met several such people with >homes in South Florida who do not need and don't use AC and >yet live and sleep cool and comfortably, including some >green architects and some PV homes; I have been in one such >home myself. There are people with PV homes in South >Florida who *do* have annual credits. Another way is to insulate well with a small area and stay cool. I can't sleep if over 80F and high humidity. But my electric bill is only $40 last month with full time cooling. That's only 8kwhr/day so one should be able to get a check at the end of the yr. I got my PSC comment on net metering in the record. Only 6 people bothered to comment so we could really make a difference if just 20 of us commented regularly on PSC policies. I also commented on Nukes and AE on other PSC rules. Will comment shortly on the new rate increases which are up 30-50% over the next couple yrs on the west coast on why AE hasn't been implemented as wind, solar thermal engines, tidal power and conservation are cost effective and becoming more so as fossil fuel, nukes go up in price. > >As for net-metering, what I can tell you from the >legislator who authored and introduced it into the >legislature is that it is a done deal, passed, signed into >law by Governor Crist, finished, completed, and implemented >by the Florida PSC. I was sitting in House Majority Leader >Adam Hasner's office just a few days ago and had this very >conversation with him. He said he was quite sure that the >PSC had already implemented it but said he would check on >that for me right there and proceeded to call up the head >of the PSC, who confirmed it and immediately emailed Adam >the relevant info, which Adam then forwarded onto me. Here >is the information, from the head of the Florida PSC: > >--- > >Below is the link to the FPSC news release on approval of >the net metering rule: > >http://www.floridapsc.com/home/news/index.aspx?id=370 Assuming they are implemented then this is a very good set of rules, especially with as pro public hookup cost, ect wise, putting the onus on the utility. The PSC aids are very pro AE, progressive and they write the rules, do everything so talk to them. > > >25-6.065 Interconnection and Net Metering of Customer-Owned >Renewable Generation > >* The Rule 25-6.065 will further encourage the development >of customer-owned renewable generation by expanding >eligibility under the rule to all renewable technologies, >and increasing the capacity covered under the rule to 2 MW. > >* The rule provides more detailed interconnection >requirements by incorporating nationally recognized >standards for interconnection and safety-IEEE 1547, IEEE >1547.1, and UL 1741-as well as explicit due dates for >action by the utility and customer. > >* System size eligibility is broken into three Tiers: 1) up >to 10kW; 2) greater than 10kW up to 100kW; and 3) greater >than 100kW up to 2MW. > >* Tier 1 incorporates systems addressed in past FPSC rules, >and will largely capture residential customers. Tier 1 >systems are exempt from several fees and obligations >applied to the Tier 2 or 3 customers, including: >application fees, liability insurance coverage, expenses >related to manual disconnect switches, and interconnection >study charges (Tier 3 only). > >* The rule requires net metering for customer-owned >renewable generation systems interconnected pursuant to the >rule. > >* Credit for excess energy sent to the grid during any >billing period will be carried forward and applied to the >next billing period to offset the customer's consumption. >At the end of the year any remaining excess energy credits >will be purchased by the IOU's at their avoided cost rate. > >* IOUs will be responsible for installing, at their expense >, any meters required to enable net metering of excess >energy. > >* The rule states that any Renewable Energy Certificates >associated with a customer's self-generation will be >retained by the customer. If an additional meter is needed >to measure total energy generated by the customer in order >to obtain the RECs, the customer will be responsible for >those costs. The customer may negotiate with the IOU for
Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
> You will never have an annual credit if you live in > South Florida unless you have a huge system and > never run your AC. You don't need AC at all in South Florida if you design your house correctly. I have met several such people with homes in South Florida who do not need and don't use AC and yet live and sleep cool and comfortably, including some green architects and some PV homes; I have been in one such home myself. There are people with PV homes in South Florida who *do* have annual credits. As for net-metering, what I can tell you from the legislator who authored and introduced it into the legislature is that it is a done deal, passed, signed into law by Governor Crist, finished, completed, and implemented by the Florida PSC. I was sitting in House Majority Leader Adam Hasner's office just a few days ago and had this very conversation with him. He said he was quite sure that the PSC had already implemented it but said he would check on that for me right there and proceeded to call up the head of the PSC, who confirmed it and immediately emailed Adam the relevant info, which Adam then forwarded onto me. Here is the information, from the head of the Florida PSC: --- Below is the link to the FPSC news release on approval of the net metering rule: http://www.floridapsc.com/home/news/index.aspx?id=370 25-6.065 Interconnection and Net Metering of Customer-Owned Renewable Generation * The Rule 25-6.065 will further encourage the development of customer-owned renewable generation by expanding eligibility under the rule to all renewable technologies, and increasing the capacity covered under the rule to 2 MW. * The rule provides more detailed interconnection requirements by incorporating nationally recognized standards for interconnection and safety-IEEE 1547, IEEE 1547.1, and UL 1741-as well as explicit due dates for action by the utility and customer. * System size eligibility is broken into three Tiers: 1) up to 10kW; 2) greater than 10kW up to 100kW; and 3) greater than 100kW up to 2MW. * Tier 1 incorporates systems addressed in past FPSC rules, and will largely capture residential customers. Tier 1 systems are exempt from several fees and obligations applied to the Tier 2 or 3 customers, including: application fees, liability insurance coverage, expenses related to manual disconnect switches, and interconnection study charges (Tier 3 only). * The rule requires net metering for customer-owned renewable generation systems interconnected pursuant to the rule. * Credit for excess energy sent to the grid during any billing period will be carried forward and applied to the next billing period to offset the customer's consumption. At the end of the year any remaining excess energy credits will be purchased by the IOU's at their avoided cost rate. * IOUs will be responsible for installing, at their expense, any meters required to enable net metering of excess energy. * The rule states that any Renewable Energy Certificates associated with a customer's self-generation will be retained by the customer. If an additional meter is needed to measure total energy generated by the customer in order to obtain the RECs, the customer will be responsible for those costs. The customer may negotiate with the IOU for the purchase of the customer's RECs. --- Jamie, sounds like what you've got is a problem with FPL dragging their feet and not complying with the law. I would suggest that you first take this up with FPL, inform them that they are in non-compliance with the law, forward them this information, including my entire email regarding my conversation with Majority Leader Hasner and his phone call with the head of the PSC, and then if you don't get a satisfactory response from FPL but still just more foot-dragging and obfuscation, you should report FPL's non-compliance to the PSC. That is completely unacceptable for FPL to refuse to comply with the law. Majority Leader Hasner and I specifically discussed FPL's past behavior and how they had dragged their feet and fought against net-metering for years. I can't say this any louder: NET-METERING IS THE LAW OF THE LAND HERE IN FLORIDA! FPL had better get into compliance immediately If you do not get this resolved by FPL, and then the PSC, if necessary, please let me know so that I can take this up with Majority Leader Hasner, who is the leader of Renewable Energy and PV initiatives in the Florida House of Representatives. Please document and keep records of all of your communications with FPL. As I said, feel free to forward this email in its entirety to FPL. Good luck! Charles Whalen Florida EAA - Original Message - From: "Jamie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "FLEAA Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [FLEAA] no net metering y
Re: [FLEAA] no net metering yet
I received a letter a few months ago from FPL informing me about the change in the net metering law. I was told I would be sent a new interconnect contract when available. I still have not received the new contract and I still do not have net metering. In addition to that, over a year ago I signed up for FPL's "On Call" program and I have never gotten a credit. I was eventually told the billing system couldn't give me the On Call credit because I have a special meter and they were working on a solution. I have the digital, duel register meter that FPL installed when my PV system passed inspection. You will never have an annual credit if you live in South Florida unless you have a huge system and never run your AC. My PV system is 5.2 kw and even in the winter with the AC off I never have a credit. The people you read about in Home Power magazine that sometimes have a credit have very small houses and no AC or electric heat. They also may have wind turbines or micro-hydro contributing to power output. Jamie On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:37 PM, Charles Whalen wrote: >> I am hearing that the electric company will only give you credit >> towards >> future bills, not cash. Doesnt make sense if you produce your own >> electric >> and do not use the grid that you can only get a credit that you >> may never >> use. > > As mandated by Florida state law and already implemented by the > Florida PSC, > the way that net-metering works in Florida is that the electric > utility will > roll your net-positive kWh credit into the next month and continue to > accumulate such credits until the end of 12 months, at which time the > utility will pay you cash for the cumulative kWh credits you have > built up > over the previous year, *BUT*, valued and paid to you at the utility's > "avoided cost", which is around 4 cents/kWh, *not* at their retail > price, > which is around 12 cents/kWh. > > The way you earn the monthly net-positive credits (if indeed you > have any) > is on an implicit "retail" basis, valued at 12 cents/kWh, i.e. > netted off > against your usage at the same retail price (of 12 cents/kWh) that the > utility charges; but if you have any cumulative net-positive kWh > balance at > the end of 12 months, that is paid to you in cash at the utility's > wholesale > avoided cost rate of 4 cents/kWh. > > This is also the case in some places in California. In other > places in > California, you simply lose any accumulated net-positive kWh > credits at the > end of 12 months if you don't use them up by sucking those kWh back > out of > the grid. In both cases, what California EV/PVers do is to have a big > charging party in the 12th month of their annual billing cycle, > whereby they > invite all their EV buddies over to charge at their house for a > week to suck > all those kWh back out of the grid to get them back down to a > cumulative net > of 0 to end the 12-month cycle. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:19 PM > Subject: [FLEAA] come see us jeremy! > >>> >>> Michele and All, >>> >>> I will introduce myself first since I am new. I am an Electrical >>> Engineer >>> at >>> Honeywell in Clearwater, FL. Looking to build my first EV soon for >>> commuting >>> purposes. So be on the lookout for questions from me and or any >>> resources >>> you all may have you can send my way. >>> >>> As far as your statement / Question Michelle about the storage and >>> reselling >>> of electricity. You are correct in the thinking that once the >>> electricty >>> passes through your meter you are charged for it and what you do >>> with it >>> is >>> your business. If you wish to store it and sell it have at it if >>> you can >>> find someone to purchase it from you but keep in mind they can >>> get it >>> from >>> the same electric company you stored it from. >>> >>> As far as using Wind and or Photovoltaic sources on your home and >>> selling >>> it >>> to the power company. There are some forms available on their >>> websites >>> you >>> can fill out. Get it signed by a licensed electrician and submit, >>> some >>> charge a processing fee. The Electric Company will then proceed >>> to your >>> home >>> and install a metering device to measure any electricity that is >>> sent >>> back >>> to the Power Grid. Any power that is sent to the grid well be >>> credited to >>> you either in your upcoming power bill or in a check. The Value >>> of the >>> electricity is calculated from the Current market values. >>> >>> I hope this information helps. >> >> >> >> ANY information helps! I'd love to set up soo many solar panels >> that it >> produces enough to sell to my neighbors and only charge enough to >> maintain >> the panels. then, to have neighbors link up with neighbors to >> hopefully >> get >> enough for the whole neighbor but yes, this is a utopi
